Adam Curry: podcasting 2.0 February 24 2023 Episode 123 Get
off my chest Hello everybody once again time for your weekly
board meeting and podcasting 2.0 We are the North Star in a
galaxy of corporate gloves and boy isn't a clutch everything
you want to know about the latest with the podcast
namespace and forest podcasting 2.0 in its entirety the podcast
apps and everything happening at podcast index dot social I'm
Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country in
Alabama. The commander of Operation chop and drop say
hello to my friend on the other end ladies and gentlemen Mr.
Dave Jones
Dave Jones: Hello. I know it's stuck now. Yeah, we always going
to be days in there.
Adam Curry: We always start the show off with a little bit of a
singing we'd like to bring the worship team together
Dave Jones: the praise team
Adam Curry: the praise team. Oh, I've never heard that one. The
praise team that's a good one. Ah, it is Friday. Once again.
How you doing brother? Everything good up there or down
there and over there in Alabama.
Dave Jones: It's good over here in Alabama. Busy. Yeah. With the
with the Texas. Oh, that's
Adam Curry: right. That's right.
Dave Jones: I went to my first first ever Bitcoin meetup. Oh,
holy night. Oh, how was that? Here in here in here in the
hand? Well, let
Adam Curry: me guess. Let me guess. Hi, everybody. Welcome to
the meetup. Let's talk about noster.
Dave Jones: That came at the end. Lots of nostre talk at the
very end. Yeah, that was fantastic. It was great. That
was good. I've never been to anything that it felt. It was a
it was a very religious type event. I mean, like, I mean, in
the sense that everybody's like, you know, the same ilk you know?
They're so it's like going into like a Bitcoin Bible study. Big
Adam Curry: BBs Bitcoin Bible study. Well, it is kind of true
that that when you meet Bitcoiners that's kind of like
no agenda listeners to when you meet Bitcoiners does like all
over the spectrum and I mean, literally is a spectrum
sometimes. And you wouldn't be able to know any of these people
wouldn't walk down seas Oh, that gut person was a Bitcoin you
would know until you meet him. And it is it is a real sense of
community. There's something going on there that I've
witnessed many times it's kind of cool.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I liked all the people there no nobody I had
ever met before from around berm you know Birmingham and great we
have a wide diversity of people from different places a guy
talked about proof of work and then in
Adam Curry: general or specifically to Bitcoin Phoebe
Phoebe comm
Dave Jones: did like a presentation on it and and stuff
is it meatless is yeah, it was good and then like the people
that run it are really nice and committed have been run it for a
while didn't even know this was going on. So anyways good. It's
good to get out into the Oh yeah.
Adam Curry: Did the did people know who you were? Do you say Do
you know who I am? Did you say that like I am the pod sage
Shruti heard a podcast surely value for value rings a bell
people
Dave Jones: did not say anything like that. This? No I did not
turn on douche mode I kept
Adam Curry: it's not douche motives. PR mode. Did you Did
anyone talk about value for value in podcasting at all?
Dave Jones: They talked a lot about podcasts that they
listened to talk about podcast about podcasting in any of that
sort of sense. So I figured I figured what I do is I just get
to know people for a while and then I'm done. And then a few
weeks I'd say hey, I can do a presentation on podcasting.
tupuna There you go. They seem that seems to be their thing.
They seem to be like every, every time they have a meet up
they have somebody do like a presentation so I could do V for
v you know
Adam Curry: very nice. I did want to mention to everybody
this is my new health warning. I'm very concerned for people as
I've discovered that there are a the entire armies of people are
listening to podcasts at accelerated speed. I would like
to warn you out to the SP at any at anything above 1.0 I'd like
to remind you this is very bad for your health. You are
hijacking your nervous system. There is no need for you to cram
more podcasts into your life. You will not be able to
cognitively absorb what normal people are saying anymore. Stop
it
Dave Jones: this is what what is new this and new what was Where
are you so far? Out of the blue
Adam Curry: no unwell no it kind of came up during the week as I
was someone sent me a video which was clearly a you know a
so called Deep fake and it was Joe Rogan and and Peterson they
were talking together and I'm like that's pretty it's pretty
good. It's getting pretty close. And then it dawned on me that it
sounds a bit like, you know, SmartSpeed from overcast or any
other spared who does not actually speed up the voices, it
tries to keep the pitch in check. And it sounds very much
like a deep fake and I thought, oh my god, people will never be
able to recognize a deep fake anymore, because this is how
they're used to listening to stuff. And I got so many emails
in your blood people said, you know, what you said was kind of
interesting because I can't listen to normal conversation
anymore without thinking people are drunk or it's really weird.
And like that is not healthy. Think about what your data is
not healthy. You need to be able to have cognition of normal
life. So stop it. You do. Okay, one more thing. If you if you
feel you need to accelerate listening to podcast because you
need more podcast, please stop listening to this one right
away. Go away. You're sick. Okay. Yeah. What do you want to
Dave Jones: say go? No. As a first of all, somebody needs to
get the an ISO of Bob Newhart doing that skit. Where have you
seen that one where he just wants to stop it? Where he's the
psychologist who charges $5. Just to stop it.
Adam Curry: Fortunately, no, I don't have that one.
Dave Jones: But the as a as a reformed podcast, multi multi
multi XOR I don't know what you call that multispeed person's
chick? Yeah. Yeah. As a sicko, or form, sicko form, sicko. I
used I used to listen to all my podcasts in one at 1.0 speed up
speed up with the, with the the whatever, whatever that thing is
where it chops out the silences between them and all that kind
of stuff. Yeah, the silence chopper. Silence Joe. Yeah. And
I. I did that exclusively. And then at some point I heard you
say on I think it was on no agenda. I heard you griping
about this. And I was like, okay, you know what, you
probably ride? Yeah, um, because I noticed I would get home from
like a commute somewhere, I would get home and I had been
listening to this for let's say, 30 minutes. And I would be
irritable with the people in the house.
Adam Curry: I've saved your marriage is what you're saying.
Dave Jones: My kids, oh, you owe you a debt of gratitude. Like in
this, like, Okay, I'm gonna stop. I'm gonna I'm gonna stop
it. I'm gonna stop it. And so I just changed everything back to
normal speed cut out the good out the solid choppers. And, and
at first, it was painful. I was like, it feels so slow. But then
after about a week, I'm like, Oh, this is actually normal. And
I'm in it for 100% Sure way way but not 105 by
Adam Curry: five, five by five, four quarters, anything can
additionally
Dave Jones: it improved. The all my my conversations with people
around me it it put it reset my brain back to normal. I agree
with you exclusively.
Adam Curry: There's something else that came along. And I just
realized this also spurred me on, I got new glasses. And I
needed I needed glasses with multifocal lenses, because, you
know, I'm now flying back flying again. And and I'm nearsighted.
So I'm sitting in front of the podcast studio screen here, I
see it perfectly without glasses. But if I move back to
just about where the glass panels are, in today's modern
aircraft, you know, it's a little fuzzy, but you kind of
need to see the, the instruments and I'm used to you know, steam
gauges, dials, you know, that's approximately there. That looks
about right. So, so I needed new glasses, and I and I got two
pair and the one pair, the ophthalmologist got me
transitions with three. So you have Far, Far Away close up for
reading, which is handy because you know, if I'm walking through
the supermarket, I'm always taking my glasses off looking at
my phone, putting them back on. And then a medium stage which is
actually perfect for the for the glass cockpit. And it was the
first time I put them on i Whoa, I almost fell over. Because
you're so used to moving your eyes behind your glasses. Now
it's like you move them down. It's like whoa, and you got all
goes out of focus. You look to the left, it's like vertigo. And
it took me a few days. And that reminds me of the experiment
where you put the glasses on that invert the world
everything's upside down and your brain will accept that
within 24 hours even shorter than that you will be able to
function perfectly fine with the world being projected upside
down to your eye, you know, to your through your eyes. So
logically when just what you said, when when you get used to
it and then you come home and you want to beat your children
go faster. Come on, get out. What did you want to say? Yeah,
that's
Dave Jones: exactly that's actually what it's like there's
there's a low level of irritation. It forms in the back
of your head when you're when your little girl was telling you
about her homework and you're just like, go stop
Adam Curry: being so slow. Wow, okay, thank you. I'm adding this
to my arsenal. This is this will improve your home life, it will
improve your the sex will be better.
Dave Jones: I can attest to sex better.
Adam Curry: You get you have sex if you stop being an asshole.
Really good.
Dave Jones: That's all so that also qualifies as better. from
none to Yes. Oh, goodness. I also agree though, with tone
record is that if you listen to roast beef, the developer Oh,
yeah. That is the only time you race acceptable to
Adam Curry: just slow it down to slow it down. slow him down.
That's true. That's true. Yeah,
Dave Jones: he says has been I'm thinking maybe point 250
Adam Curry: My goodness, we have a very special board member I
want to bring in in a moment. But not until you and I have
discussed one important story which I felt only really got to
mention. YouTube. Yeah. Podcast egg. No, that was not what I was
gonna talk about. Oh, okay.
Unknown: I got to know. Sorry. No, I
Adam Curry: was gonna talk about the story from NPR because it
got it. Gotta mention it. Thank you. It caught my attention
because it was a story about NPR. Well, I have the story
here. Allison. I have the clip. I have their very own clip and
we won't play the whole thing. We'll get up to the pertinent
bit here. And now of course, some news. By the way, you got
to we got to slow it down and talk like NPR he now for some
news about ourselves. NPR? Yes, we're so transparent. We report
on our own smelly poop.
Unknown: And now of course, some news about NPR itself. NPR
announced a major restructuring today and revealed it's about to
lay off about 10% of the workforce. Our CEO John Lansing
cited a drop of $30 million in projected advertising revenues.
Adam Curry: So this caught my attention when you say because
NPR is National Public Radio underwriting and well, the it's
always been questionable, you know, is it sponsorships,
underwriting, advertising, call it whatever you want. And I
think that it was a little confusing, but I can dissect
this quickly. That's
Unknown: about to lay off about 10% of the workforce. Our CEO
John Lansing cited a drop of $30 million in projected advertising
revenues. And PR media correspondent David Folkenflik
joins me and David, it's always a pleasure to talk to you. But
this is a tough day, as you know, here at NPR.
Yeah, look, it's it's, it's a real loss. As John Lansing said,
in a memo to staff I've been here over 18 years, it's the
toughest cuts I've seen, it's probably the toughest since the
early 80s. What we know is not a lot except about the extent of
it. And what John Lansing said to me was that it would not be
uniform across he wasn't just going to take a hatchet and do
the same across all divisions. He wants to be strategic and
thoughtful about how it's done. But you know, this is
necessarily going to be us doing not only less with less, but
reconfiguring how we do it.
Adam Curry: I'll stop there because what they kind of waffle
around about is what the problem is what happened with NPR who
are supposed to be running on donations, you know, they have
donation drives, you get a tote bag or a coffee cup. If you
submit a support your local NPR station, what happens? It's
Dave Jones: gonna guess what the problem is? Yeah,
Adam Curry: go for it.
Dave Jones: The Pro, I'm gonna guess that the problem in this
comes from reading the article, which was actually very long.
Adam Curry: The article actually tells us what the problem is.
Dave Jones: It said something like that there was 490 people
in the newsroom and like 230 people in management.
Adam Curry: Now that is part of the problem. What really
happened here is they built a huge podcasting division. And
the podcasts do accept advertising. And so this so they
already were trimming down in November they they were cutting
they cut everything by 10%. That's not really mentioned. NPR
is programming division, which produces its industry leading
podcast has more than doubled since 2019. You see they got on
The hate bandwagon that particularly with, with with
lock downs when a everybody was creating podcasts, see the chop
and drop exercise to pare down the crap that was still the
remnants of that shit floating around in our in our index it
more than doubled. And you know with that Dvorak and I actually
went through a lot of their probe they have a lot of
programs that they created in the past couple of years. And
the advertising as predicted as warned for by this very podcast
post. It's done it dried up. It's I mean, of course there's
always going to be some marketing. The podcasting is the
first one to go this the first way you know, it's very, it's
not well measured, you know, the IAP stats, it's all this crap
that it's too complicated. There's no ESG benefit anymore
because you actually have to pay for it now. It's not free from
you know, free money you can borrow. And so they just over
overstimulated the whole programming division. And that
is going to be a bloodletting in that division in the in the
podcasting space where they thought, you know, this will
just go on forever.
Dave Jones: And they said they have just the newsroom currently
stands at just shy of 490 people while programming has shot up to
230. And yours. I wonder how much of that quote unquote
programming was podcasts, all
Adam Curry: podcasting? It's all about Yeah, it's all and here's
the other problem. When podcasting works, when it's
almost a one man band, you cannot afford to do and this is
the problem with Spotify with gimlet now they have unions over
there are you kidding me? Even while we have editors and
producers and associated associate producers, and
production assistants, and get coffee, and and line editors and
then an executive they all report to that's the other side
of the equation. Because they're all in this fantasy of, of big
broadcasting, I mean, even top 40 radio stations don't have
that level of, of staffing, and they're barely getting by
barely. So this, you know, this inflated, oh, my gosh, it's
gonna be so great. You know, it's now coming crashing down.
And I just want to say a couple of things I want to say about
it, one, learn how to produce your own podcast. You know, it
doesn't, you don't have to be? No, it doesn't have to be the
Wall of Sound every single time there's, you can learn how to.
And I prefer to make the sound and record it Direct to Tape and
not mess with everything after the fact you do whatever you
feel is necessary. But also, I want to tell the hosting
companies, it's going to slow down, there's not going to be
this big influx of 1000s of new customers every week, it's just
going to slow down. And if I could make one one more
recommendation that I'll shut up. I would recommend a hosting
company. If you're giving away free account stop right away.
Give away an account where you take 20% of the value for value
streaming sites up to a cap or in perpetuity, whatever you want
to do, and make that your deal and stimulate people using that
move away from all I mean, subscriptions I think is a
pretty good business too. Although fundamentally, I don't
like the idea of paying for something you can't listen to
otherwise. I don't like the the paywall version of it
Dave Jones: the V for V subscriptions. Are those work?
Yeah,
Adam Curry: I mean, that's what we've done with no agenda for 15
years with Pay Pal, you know, and of course, gradually going
to try and move that into other payment platforms da. But you
know, seriously, think about, think about doing more of that,
and stimulating people to get because if you if you can get
someone who has 100 people listening, but you know, there's
one person there who's who does $1,000 a month, you're out of
your cost, you know, and it really didn't hurt you didn't
hurt anybody made it easy for everyone to participate in. And
I think it's a model for the future that that is just me.
And, and stop listening at times x speed, you know, jobs.
Dave Jones: They said to me, they're laying off 10% of their
workforce. I mean, that's a huge job. That's big. Yeah, that's
more than any. I think that might be the biggest one we've
heard.
Adam Curry: But they also said it's not going to be uniform
across the organization. No, it's going to be in podcasting.
It's all podcasts. Exactly what
Dave Jones: their quote, their quote was, in I think it's
interesting that this is a this is an article about themselves.
So they're talking I mean, they're not. This is not
guesswork. They're telling you exactly what's going on. Now if
Was there some positioning? I mean, I'm not saying that
there's not. But, you know, there's lots of, well, just like
everybody else is having layoffs, we're gonna have to
have them too. There's a lot of that did
Adam Curry: a lot of look at Silicon Valley. Okay, so you're
comparing NPR to Google and Amazon. So clearly, clearly,
you're talking about podcasts. And this is why I also put 00 is
the word wait on the YouTube podcast announcement? Go ahead,
go go jacked up over there. This podcasting has been through
this. We've seen this a million times.
Dave Jones: That they said they the reason they gave in I mean,
this is really specific. And again, this is talking them
talking about themselves. They're telling you what's going
on. They said, quote, in talking about the calls, quote, and
erosion of advertising dollars, particularly for NPR podcasts,
quote, specifically said that, yes, I mean, that that there's
no ambiguity there. Advertising in NPR podcasts is not keeping
pace, and they can't fund those 230 program.
Adam Curry: There was actually a spot in here, Michigan, fine.
You know, this is mastering how we do it is a spot where she
says, But you know, it's people doing podcasts or doing
journalism, too. We've listened. He said that this is going to be
a significant way.
Unknown: Now, what does that actually mean? When he says he
wants to be thoughtful? He doesn't think this will be
uniform across divisions catchy podcast, is actually
envisioning?
We don't know, we don't. What we do know is three, three
different kinds of strategic which is as law and also its
audience to you know, seek younger and more
Adam Curry: diverse I like this. I like with this is what
Dave Jones: this means, just as a commentary. I mean, with this
riveting content I stunning that they've had no problem selling
advertising.
Unknown: VR has to deepen and broaden its audience to deepen
and broaden. What does that even mean, you know, seek younger and
more diverse audience base younger and
Adam Curry: diverse audience base? You know what that is?
That's corporate bullshit is what that is. That's the
Unknown: way in which he sees building for the future. And he
said that since he arrived in the fall of 2019, he's also
talked about unifying its newsroom with its programming
side, but
Adam Curry: not when you unify the newsroom with its
programming side, you know what that means? Native Ads, you're
going to be making content for the advert and our NPR team
skilled voices, they'll make special podcast just for your
brand. Trust me, it always goes
Dave Jones: away more stories about Taco Bell Mexican pizza
coming back, because it's exactly it's
Unknown: where so much growth has happened lately,
particularly in the podcasting division. But these divisions in
some ways artificial. Well,
Adam Curry: I don't want to hear that again. What
Unknown: are you say? 2019. He's also talked about unifying its
newsroom with its programming side, the programming is where
so much growth has happened lately, particularly in the
podcasting division. But these divisions, in some ways are
artificial. A lot of our colleagues doing journalism are
doing so under the rubric of podcasting, but it's still
really part of a greater journalistic function.
Adam Curry: And that's where you'd break.
Dave Jones: That's actually what what is the definition of
rubric? Rubric? I wonder why he chose that word.
Adam Curry: It's a good question. Rubric rubric. A
direction rubric. Do you have a good definition meaning, okay,
authoritative rule, a rule of conduct of how we, huh, that's
interesting. Well, if you look at NPR podcast, and you know,
say, well, that's basically it. They're doing journalism. I'm
not so sure. I think you really went crazy. Let's see. Where are
their podcasts? exclusives, exclusives. Date of Ukraine. All
right, there you go up first, consider this one, a embedded
here and now anytime planet money life kit, the indicator
wisdom, ultimate coupon code switch through line. It's been a
minute. I mean, they have so many podcasts. Oh, they must
have some big deals with people on this too. Anyway.
Dave Jones: Yeah, this is not they get on.
Adam Curry: I feel bad when, when when this happens. But, you
know, it's like, let's be honest, let's just be honest
with what we're doing in the podcasting space. Ads are not
going to be great for maybe a long, long time. I don't know. I
don't know. You know, but it's, it's an that whole, the whole
world is seeing this and is equipping themselves for what
they see on the horizon. So, you know,
Dave Jones: I think it's important. I was reading this
morning. I was reading this morning about how the Fed is not
fed, excuse me the about how the official stats coming out of the
administration about the you know, the economic numbers about
unemployment. They're all just so bogus and the banks, even the
big banks are still And to call it out and say these, these
numbers don't seem to comport with reality. And so, you know,
I'm not sure that we even know the extent of what's happening
economically right now. I feel like we're actually probably in
the dark about a lot of things and so we're the pain might
actually be way worse than right now than we may be. We may be
firmly in recession territory already.
Adam Curry: Well, technically, by the technical nature of two
quarters, two down quarters of, of GDP, yes, we are in the
United States,
Dave Jones: down quarters, even with funny numbers. We could be
like deep in recession and not be aware of it. And
Adam Curry: the disgusting thing is, is if you listen to the Wall
Street guys, and the Fed, they're like, Well, you know,
Damn, man, we can't get we need unemployment needs to be higher
than you know, that is their metric that will keep raising
interest rates until the job market softens IE. There's more
unemployment, they are rooting for unemployment. They raise
interest rates to get you unemployed. This is literally
what they're saying. You probably don't hear it because
it sounds like this. Well, we ready to get that what did it
get that job? I can tell you don't understand the nuance, but
that's what's happening.
Dave Jones: Man. I've been reading back to reading secrets
of the temple every night.
Adam Curry: I'm not familiar with secrets.
Dave Jones: Book by William Greider. He's too bright for The
Washington Post. I think it was published in maybe 1990 or 91.
It's about the Paul Volcker Federal Reserve. Oh,
Adam Curry: sure. Sure. In
Dave Jones: 80s. And it's it's a big book. It's like 700 pages.
But it's it's all the inside story about, about that
timeframe? And what what all they did, have you ever heard of
the monetary Control Act of 1980?
Adam Curry: Was this where they tried to price fix stuff?
Dave Jones: No, this was the Fed, the Fed under William
Miller was worried about that. I didn't realize this, there that
banks before 1980, banks could choose not to be a member of the
Federal Reserve System. And what happened to is if you were a
member of the Federal Reserve System, you are required to keep
a certain amount of reserves, yes, on deposit at the Fed. But
the Fed did not pay interest on those reserves in that griped a
lot of banks. So what a lot of banks and credit unions and
savings and loans would do is they would pull, they would they
would leave the Federal Reserve System go on their own under the
State Banking reg regulations of their state. And they would not
have to keep those reserves on deposit. So they could keep them
themselves and they could use they could deploy those reserves
and actually get, you know, get a return right, which
Adam Curry: turned into the overnight rate, which is one of
the biggest problems that we have now is Wilton banks are
sending a trillion dollars overnight back to the Federal
Reserve. Well, the
Dave Jones: monetary Control Act of 1980 stopped that it
basically just said, all financial institutions in the
United States are required to be members of the Federal Reserve
System. Done
Adam Curry: and and did you know that since COVID, the banks are
not required to have any reserves. I didn't know that.
Yeah, then they never reversed that it was during during COVID.
You know, typically you have to have 10% in reserve. And so they
don't have to do they don't as far as I know, many banks don't
even have any reserves. And by the way, nothing says honey, I
don't want to have sex and having that 700 page book next
to your bed and reading it at night. Dave Jones, what do I
need to teach you?
Dave Jones: It's like I mean, it's like a big thing of garlic
sitting on the nightstand.
Adam Curry: Speaking of reading in bed, I'd like to bring in our
honorary board member for today. As you can see, he is once again
in his velvet bathroom and his bathrobe and his fluffy pink
slippers ladies and gentlemen, please say hello to the founder
and CEO headworn a boss something of one of our first
first apps to support value for value. That would be breeze.
Hello, His Royal Highness Roy scheinfeld Roy Hello Adam. Hello
Dave Booker's off
Unknown: I don't think it's nice that we need to like be on a
podcast in order to talk but Well,
Adam Curry: I mean, it's so funny because I've been looking
at my phone for a couple months and I got no I have 00 calls
missed or anything from you. You only tweet me now
Unknown: you know what? I had the same experience myself. So
Adam Curry: the last time I called you like Oh man, I'm
really busy. I don't have time for you don't remember.
Unknown: Don't have time. No. And by the way, I want to say
that I'll continue to listen to podcasts index in 2.5. Index to
Adam Curry: really listen to in in high speed Do You Really?
Really? Yeah, yeah.
Dave Jones: You're frying your brain, your friend.
Adam Curry: Roy lives alone, everybody just want to make sure
as far as we know, except for your servants. There's no one
out there.
Unknown: Yeah, so
Adam Curry: that's because you listen to podcasts at 2.5 speed
like no, you can't
Unknown: add them one podcast only. That's, that's the only
podcast that I listen to in my bathrobe, like we did my
slippers on Friday night, but but I think like I don't think
it's one size fits all. That's what I wanted to say. Like, time
is a very scarce resource. Like there are other stuff to do I
have a lot of stuff to do with my time. I'm not sure like it's
very effective for me. And by the way, you mentioned roast
beef. Like the only way I think I'm able to listen to roast beef
is because I'm listening to to your podcasts in train your
train
Dave Jones: this is
Adam Curry: it kind of goes against everything you know,
from a Bitcoin or with a high or low time preference, which is
interesting. It's kind of the exact opposite. But we respect
your choices. So if you want to know if you want to smoke crack,
that's fine.
Unknown: I don't think it's about that. I think I don't know
Yeah, key few Did you watch this? There's a Netflix show
called cooked. A Michael Pollan. I think that's the that's the
guy cookies talking about, like, why humans are in in regards to
cooking like why humans are better than then animals like
more effective is because we eat cooked food. And cooked food
takes less time to digest. So we have does not have time to do
other stuff and develop as this society. So I'm developing Adam,
you're the one in behind?
Adam Curry: Well, then Fair enough. Fair enough. All I would
say is, you know, it isn't podcast audio. The idea is you
can do other things while you're doing it. Uh, did you watch that
Netflix documentary? Two times speed? By the way, did that give
you more time to watch more stuff on Netflix? Do you listen
to your music at two times speed? Because it sounds so
good.
Unknown: Yeah, your point. I agree.
Adam Curry: Because I love you, man. It's only because I love
but
Unknown: you know, you heard lactic like, I'm not addicted
user. But I have a lot of like, friends with kids. I don't have
any kids. But I have a lot of friends get and all the Tick
Tock music. I can double the speed or triple the speed. And I
like that. Yeah, that's insane. Yeah. Oh, yeah. abomination.
Adam Curry: Yeah. So Roy, we're always great to have you on.
It's been quite a while. As I said, you were one of the one of
the first. Well, I think really, really well, you're a second but
you're really the only my dream came true as the only one I'll
just call it a wallet. I know it's very controversial to call
it that. But a signing app that does Bitcoin and lightning that
added podcasting. And, and to this day, it is still my go to
to test to make sure everything's working and
whatever podcast I released. First thing I do is did the show
up on breeze? And can I send a booster Graham and if those two
things work, then it's solid for me. And that's really how solid
breeze is as an app. And I know you've modernized a couple of
things. You want to talk about the podcasts and capabilities of
breeze and then we'll go into all the other stuff that you can
bring us up to speed on the state of the industry basically.
Unknown: A Yes, sure. So yeah, as you said, like we we try to
create the best podcasting good user experience, and we baked it
into the app. I know, that's one of the primary reasons why why
users keep using Brees is first it seems like very, very odd for
people for Bitcoiners to have a podcast player within their
wallet. But now it's I think we we normalize that like a we kind
of made it a standard. And I and a lot of people are liking this
experience and the experience is very solid. We are actually
building our podcasting capabilities on top of a library
called anytime. That's the that's the podcasting library.
And I liked the user experience because of the user experience.
As a user I'm using breeze and not because I help build breeze
but because I like it as an interface. The interface is very
clean. You don't have all the social network network stuff
that you have in other podcasts players like a fountain for
example, I understand why Oscar and why other other other
developers are adding the It does capabilities. But I like
like the sustained experience of the just listen to a podcast
Adam Curry: is a double screen. I don't want to be consumed by
interaction with humans
Unknown: 2.5 Speed points.
Adam Curry: And have you considered adding some of the
live the lit capabilities?
Unknown: Yeah, so So strategically what we want to do
a, what what we've done with Breeze kind of the Swiss knife
are a model of, of adding multiple experience into a
single app, we also have a point of sale interface within breeze.
That doesn't scale. So in order for us to expand and to add more
podcasting capabilities, I think what we need to do, we need to
spin off the podcasting feature of breeze into a separate app.
That's why we went through the roll the route of developing a
breeze SDK, we can talk about the prison SDK, but the SDK is
the infrastructure that will allow us to have multiple
applications that use the same user node, use the same user of
balance. And that architecture will allow us to have multiple
apps, one of the apps, we want a dedicated podcast app. And once
we have that there is no limit to the features that we can.
Okay.
Adam Curry: I understand what you just said. So I can have my
breeze wallet and just use it for all the breeze stuff that I
do. Which Believe me, this is how I buy my beef with breeze.
You know, all of this stuff I do. I love I love the experience
of the breeze wallet for Bitcoin and for lightning. Or they use
it for lightning exclusively pretty much. So what you're
saying is I can use with the SDK when this is you're gonna
explain this to us. I can have a breeze dedicated podcast app,
but it will take from the same balance. Is that what I heard
you say?
Unknown: Exactly? That's exactly right. I have one of the
features that the lightning and Bitcoin in general doesn't have
a is missing is lacking when comparing to the Fiat experience
is the fact that multiple applications can work against
the same balance. That's that's a missing feature. That's a
that's a big UX drove back when you compare the lightning
applications out there to fiat solution with Fiat you use your
credit card, you put your credit card, in an Uber app, you put
your credit card in Spotify, put your credit card weather,
wherever and then and then all the these applications are
working against the same account the same balance, we need a
similar experience in the lightning space, but we needed
to do that in a noncustodial fashion. Yes, that's why that's
why we've developed the proof SDK. And we can
Adam Curry: Okay, so it's time to bring up this conversation
again. And it's actually very timely as we now you know,
things have changed in the in the last two years I would say
Elon pay was pretty much the exclusive provider that a lot of
people were using tying their apps into we had voltage has has
done a little bit but really they're like you know get a node
that's way too expensive podcasters don't like that like
ham radio operators that cheap. Then we have although they also
have new stuff they're working on for liquidity not quite the
same, then get Alby came along and get Alby really showed
everybody hey, here's how you have a wallet. And here's how it
went. And you can connect this to stuff. And I think that was
very helpful in explaining and showing people the concept of
having a central wallet that you can use from multiple different
applications. The problem is, and we've seen this with, with
almost every system, certainly centralized systems, if
something goes wrong, everybody's fucked. Or if God
forbid, you know, the German Luftwaffe comes in and says, you
know, we're shutting you down now because whatever, it's not,
the German rules have changed, or the EU rules have changed.
And, and it always makes me shiver as I look at all the
success of what's building out and people. And I remember, we
just started this, there was a big pushback against even ln
pay, you know, the Bitcoin was like, This is not what we're
supposed to do. And it was supposed to be decentralized,
you're ruining the whole concept. And so here we are in
this kind of precarious situation. So the custodial
noncustodial is worth, if you don't mind re explaining and
what, what the SDK is going to how that's going to change this?
Unknown: Yes, yes, definitely. So So there are a few pillars to
this non custodial, custodial discussion. One is, as you said
about we don't want a centralized solution because a
centralized solution leads to Due to due to problems in terms
like blue wallet from the last couple of days is a great
example blue wallet, just decided to shut down their
service and all the blue
Adam Curry: wallet you Oh, I didn't even hear about this blue
wallet shut down.
Unknown: They should they're shutting down there. They have
an Elon hub architecture, right where you can you can configure
a specific program specific software to run on the server
and that, that that software kind of acts like the custodial
node of the Blue World users. So by default, they offer their
Elon hub instance, and they're shutting down the default
instance, basically,
Adam Curry: do you know why they're shutting that down? I
don't know.
Unknown: I can, I can? Just yeah, sure. I guess, I think, I
think first they're there as a team, they're focused on on
chain capabilities. But I think I think everyone that provides a
custodial service right now is flying under the radar. Right?
And that is limiting in a lot of in that in a lot of ways. If you
want to be acquired, for example, what do you do with the
custodial service, if you don't have the proper papers in place,
you don't comply to the to the, to the FinCEN, regulation or
whatever, you're in trouble, basically. So you need to get
through it with get rid of the custodial part of your business.
So I don't know if the world's gonna be acquired or not, but I
wouldn't be surprised if that's going to be the case. everyone
that is providing that is currently providing a custodial
solution is flying under the radar. You can do that on the
like if you are doing that properly, meaning complying to
the to the regulation and that's what for example, fountain
switch their custodial solution to a regulated custodial
solutions. It has right Zebedee, right, Zebedee. Exactly. And
that has other drawbacks, because then all of a sudden,
you need to do KYC, and only to do it to comply with AML
regulation. And that that's that's crap as well. So for me,
I think noncustodial that's the long term game and a lot of
noncustodial will prevail, not just because it's like
decentralized. I'm not a Bitcoin, religious guy that says
like, it's only decentralized now It's decentralized. Because
this isn't realization means something it provides value to
users, and in freedom of fuser is translated to user
experience, not having to have to comply to KYC and AML. Ease
the user experience value, their ability to expand globally easy
user experience value. So I think we need to push on to a
noncustodial future future. And that's what we've been doing
Doris, since the get go.
Adam Curry: Can for me, it's, it's, it's really more than a
decentralized part. I mean, I've already had, ah, like, on the,
you know, without a doubt fountain right now is, is at the
top of the list of people jumping in to listen to podcasts
and use value for value for booster grams and streaming
payments. And so I do one show with my wife every 14 days, on
the very day that we record is when people start to send us
booster grams, because I want to be mentioned in the show.
Fountain has an issue. So all these people were sending stuff,
it's going into the voids going nowhere going into the void. And
because that's the centralized solution that you get the most
people that are on that particular system. They all got
hurt at once. And that's the problem I have with this besides
all the regulatory stuff and
Unknown: and it's money robustness, your robustness is
another value proposition, clear value proposition over
decentralized solution.
Adam Curry: So how is breeze going to solve all this?
Unknown: Well, again, it's not just about breeze, a breeze is a
means to an end. And the end is to have a decentralized peer to
peer money. And in the world, what we're the way that we're
trying to move the needle is by for the first time working on a
noncustodial SDK, providing developers and vendors and
companies the ability to integrate lightning payments
into their applications. But doing that a while maintaining
the noncustodial architecture. So that's what we've been
working on for the past 268 months.
Adam Curry: So how does it work? How is it possible? How
Unknown: does it work? Yeah, I mean,
Adam Curry: this is trickery. There's got to be something
that's in the cloud, you're not being truthful.
Dave Jones: When you say noncustodial, just for clarity,
when you say noncustodial, I mean, you clearly with the SDK,
since it relies on green light, and I'll let you get into that.
But does it relies on block streams, infrastructure, it's
custodial in the sense of keys, and fund and fund ownership is
not custodial in the sense of, like, hard wearing the, it's
really
Unknown: easy. So I differentiate between custodial
cuz being a custodian and being centralized, that's not the same
thing. So because custody, when I refer to custody, I only mean,
in terms of the keys, like the ability of someone else to use
your funds. That's for me, when I say non custodial, I mean, no
one can move your funds without your permission in your fund.
Dave Jones: To, to clarify that a little bit. I think that's
important. Maybe people who aren't as knowledgeable about
Bitcoin might not understand that if you, if you have control
of your own keys, then even if the infrastructure underlying
your wallet goes away, you can go and spin up a wallet in a
different location. reapply your keys and your funds are still
there like you, you don't your your funds live on the chain,
they don't live in the wallet. So the the, the risk of losing
infrastructure is not is is not really much of a risk other than
just functionality, you know, you may lose the function that
you're used to. But you don't lose any you don't lose any
money. You don't lose any funds.
Unknown: You're right. But but but we also aspire to be a try
to to minimize the trust in embrace and to make a breeze
also, a more decentralized, not just noncustodial, but more
decentralized. Let's let's talk about like Adam asked about the
architecture, let's talk about the architecture. And then I'll
explain how we decentralizing the, the components of the
process decay? How do we do an open LSP platform? And how are
we going to add the SDK on top of we're in like, so you you're
not vendor locked into into Blockstream? Yeah. So the way
the SDK works, right now in breeze, we you run, we run and
the user runs a fully featured lightning node inside the mobile
device. A, what we're, we've done with the, with the LSP with
the SDK is is to, to be able to run the node on the cloud
environment. You're right. And and that's the secret sauce.
Yeah, the node is is now in a hybrid model, where the data of
the node resides on the cloud. And the keys are, are still in
the mobile device. So the user holds the key data, the data
that can sign the transaction, and the node has all the channel
states and all the information that is needed in order to route
payments. That's like the decoupling of the signer from
the note
Adam Curry: write it. But that's only for that. So you really
only need the key pair when you're sending something
receiving is just open all the time, I expect, like you
wouldn't reject a payment. Right?
Unknown: It will, so that he doesn't solve and yeah, I heard
you in the previous show stock talk about it. The fact that
we've we're are moving to green light, and we're adding green
light as a solution in breeze doesn't solve the offline
problem of needing to sign the transaction while you're
offline. That doesn't solve that a note on the mobile node on
green light, it has the same issue in that regard.
Adam Curry: So what is that Moline? Yeah. Okay,
Unknown: so yeah, let's get to that in a second. Let me just
completed the architecture tour. And then we'll
Adam Curry: drill on your left here, you see the node channels
on your right, you see your mobile app, okay.
Unknown: Yes, yeah, because the presence of K isn't just an end
user node, it's the entire end to end stack of being able to
send and receive payments. So you need an end user node, but
you also need an LSP that provides the liquidity to the
end user node. And you you need also swap services that that
provides the on chain interoperability. So the bridge
is the case really an end to end solution that, that have all the
pieces of the puzzle in order to allow a developer just to call
one API to send the payment and one API to receive a payment,
right. We put all the services within the process Okay, so
that's The breezes decay in a nutshell. And to answer your
your your question, Dave, or your remark about being
decentralized, we don't want only to support Well, Bruce is
vendor agnostic, we use the best tool for the job LDK, we all
will also support the cloud architecture. And we're gonna
head LDK to our SDK. So developers will be able to
choose a block stream or SDK or even host, a green light, by the
way, green light is going to be open source, they will be able
to offload the green light data into their own environment and
use their own green light environment. And they will be
able to do so. So with the with the SDK as well. And a on the
LSP side, it's a open LSP architecture where you can plug
in your own LSP, you don't have to rely on Brees as the
liquidity provider. So okay, so yeah, the offline, I hear the
offline problem is bothering you.
Adam Curry: Of course it is, of course, I mean, you'd give me
this great, you know, that maybe, maybe you're hearing me
in normal pacing, so you're not quite used to be talking much
faster.
Dave Jones: Say it really quick.
Adam Curry: So what it sounds like to me is it won't work out
of the box for Kison with podcasting payments.
Unknown: You're right in now, right now. But we are working.
And that's very high on our priority list. There are two
things that we can do. One thing that we are already doing, and
that that's going to be released very soon, hopefully. Yeah, I
don't want to my my, my founders, my co founders will be
angry at me. So I'm not going to say, because they're the one I'm
going to work Kingaroy. Exactly. I'm just talking on podcast, but
there. But soon soon, it's like it's very, very high on our
priority list. They're already started working on it. We're
going to we're going to provide a web hook in the SDK that will
allow the, the LSP and the user node to wake up the clients. If
they if the if the if the client is offline. And the client is on
mobile, by the way, the SDK isn't limited to mobile, like if
you run the SDK in a server environment, you don't have an
issue, right? Because the SDK can be notified. Right that
okay, can can wake up and sign the transaction. So the only
issue? I'm sorry, keep going. No, good. No,
Adam Curry: I'm sorry, I didn't The only issue go ahead.
Unknown: The only issue where we have a problems with offline
signing is if you run a mobile application, you need to make
sure the application gets enough CPU in order to sign the
transaction. And this is feasible, very feasible to solve
in the green light architecture, because in the green light
architecture, unlike the unlike the l&t architecture, in Elland
in l&d, you need to start the node in order to, to be able to
sign and that takes a lot of time, in relatively a lot of
time, like five to 10 seconds. That's not enough time in order
to respond to a mobile notification in iOS and Android.
But in green light, there is no there is no node, you don't need
to run a node, you just need to sign a state. Okay, so it can
can be done very quickly. And we're going to implement that.
So you won't be won't have the offline problem in the in our
SDK. That's that's the that's the like the hack. I call it the
hack, because we're leveraging the capabilities of mobile
notification in order to write transaction.
Adam Curry: So let me just break this out. So if someone creates
a service, or let's say, a service for podcasters, who want
to receive value for value streaming payments and booster
grams, that would all be server based stuff anyway. You know,
presumably, presumably a webpage you're not necessarily something
on your mobile it wouldn't necessarily be an app so no
problem to spin up receiving wallets for podcasters very
quickly for it sounds like for podcast listeners who are
sending payments there's no problem out of the box either
because you know
Unknown: your ending note said okay, just got it, got it, got
it got it.
Adam Curry: Interesting. So,
Unknown: but receiving that will take care of receiving as well.
And that there is another long term task that requires protocol
enhancements in order to support it's called assing. payments in
lightning. There are few features including Bolt 12,
including blindness path, including on your messages that
are needed to be implemented in order to implement us the
corniest payments in the infrastructure in the
infrastructure, currently lightning you can send only if
the user the pay and the payer are online at the same time
asking payment will enable lightning payments where the
receiver can be offline.
Dave Jones: Now, how does that happen? I mean, is there a
watchtower involved availa? What's no
Unknown: the LSP is actually involved. So this requires
another node that holds another online node that holds the
payment, the problem, you can implement that already right
now, like you, let's say you have two mobile clients. And
both are using a LSPs. Lightning service, I'd like to know that
that connects them to the network, you can send a payment
to the to the pay LSP. The pay LSP can hold the payment until
the pay is back online. That's easy to implement. The problem
with that solution? Is that enlightening. You lock the
liquidity along the route. And that's a bad solution. Because
if you lock the liquidity until the day is back online, then you
can't use the liquidity for other payments. So the secret
sauce, like the magic with a assing payment solution is to
hold the payment at the first of the initial hope between the the
payer and the LSP of
Adam Curry: that she acing part. Okay,
Unknown: I gotcha. Exactly. Okay, exactly. So
Adam Curry: this brings up two questions. One, well, that will
help I'll start backwards pricing. Now the way you will do
this will be percentages of everything. There's no upfront
fee, you just it's it's a percentage of transactions, etc,
whatever, whatever breeze kind of does now, I presume?
Unknown: Yes, exactly why that's just about documenting our
current model of leveraging lightning fees. Lightning has an
inherent business model baked into it. And we're leveraging
the lightning business model. I don't want to reinvent any
grand, I believe in the lightning routing fees. Yeah,
Adam Curry: me too. And I also believe in fees in general. And
that's why I propose hosting companies should look into
something like this and spin it up and take a take a percentage
instead of a monthly fee. Second thing I'm very concerned,
personally, about now what's happening with noster and zaps
and all this crap. And it looks like lightning is really not
being used much anymore. Everyone's going towards ln URL.
De will have to jump in with the seems to be any other way than
we're doing it which of course, we architected because we're
genius. It puts so much weight on podcast apps, that is because
going to become very inefficient. And even the,
although I like what's happening with Noster, their zaps. I mean,
it's caused all kinds of problems. And I'm not I'm not
sure if this is good, other than getting people are in the habit
of transacting. I think that's very good. But I'm worried about
KY sand in general, and how Ellen URL, we have a whole group
called the lnu, we're all mafia, and they come in and they stomp
all over you and then they leave and they do nothing. It just
seems problematic to me. I may be overreacting a bit. So
hysterical.
Unknown: Ellen, your role is a workaround. And everyone
acknowledge that Ellen URL is a workaround. It's in place
because it bridges some gaps that exist currently in the
specification. With Bolt 12 You don't need bolt oil in your
rail. Because you can initiate a payment without an invoice
without an invoice. And and and that leaves us if that exists.
That leaves us with a assing issue that is also on track to
be resolved. When we have asked in payments support, then we can
also support both both welfare in a noncustodial fashion. So So
I think again, we're running a marathon year right? And there
are some stuff that are not ideal right now and centralized
right now. And custodial right now. But I see a clear path
where everything is Is converged into a noncustodial clean
solution within the protocol itself. So I'm not too worried
about that. That's why I also been always very pragmatic in
breathing, supporting these protocols that we support and in
your realm, and we support lightning address, because we
understand that the market need this feature features. And we
don't want to say no, you don't need this feature. Yeah, you
need the lightning address, because it's easier to send a
payment with a lightning address. I just want to have a
lightning address supported in a noncustodial fashion. So that's
what what they saw both
Adam Curry: Well, what you're saying is Bolt 12, which I'm
told will not not be here until my grandchildren are in college.
Yeah.
Dave Jones: Two years. I mean, like, lnd. To me, lightning labs
and l&d has to hold
Unknown: up. Yes, yeah. Yeah, definitely. And that's the stuff
that concerns me like a I spent a lot of a lot of time
advocating for both wealth and, and I think, but it's like, we
need to get l&d on board. But l&d will get on board. And by
the way, you talked about noster the people that are taking part
in the nostril development, they understand the importance of
both worlds, they do also want to support both worlds. They
also want to use the breezes decay and to integrate breathe
into nostril clients. So I think I'm far more optimistic than
than you, Adam.
Adam Curry: I'm not. I'm not. No, I'm okay. Good. I'm glad
you're optimistic. We've only been talking about it for a
year. The nostre thing is fascinating to me. Because it's
such a poor, poor experience as any kind of salt. I mean, it I
know that it's not supposed to be an if social media or you
know, or a competitor to Twitter, I understand as
building blocks. But this is the first application which is by
the way, is always a drag on any new technology like okay, here's
what we're using it for you when you say noster now, it's Agen.
It's it's agnostic. It's like, Oh, you mean the decentralized
Twitter. And it's far from a decentralized Twitter. It's not
a great experience. And the only thing it's serving right now is
people are sending each other's zaps, which I think is
fantastic. I mean, that's it really, there's no content, all
it is, is PV Pura Vida here, I zapped you, I love you back.
That's all that it is. And so they have to be very careful to
make sure that everyone understands how you because I
really believe there's a future for this. But there's so many
loose things hanging left and right. And, you know, having
celebrity people like Dorsey endorsing it. And and, you know,
throwing Thank you, thank you, and throwing money out, you
know, SATs to get stuff going. And I really hope that it
graduates from where it is right now. Because I really see a
future for noster as the notes over, you know, relays and
things or whatever.
Unknown: Yeah, I think the problems in noster are
different. We can talk about that, as well. But yes, it's
early tech. And you can tell people like Hey, guys, let's
wait till we have a standard for us in payments. And then you
will be able to implement your steps. They want to they're
excited, they want to implement their zaps. And then you need to
let them play with zaps, and they educate the market about
the importance of is apps instead likes instead of likes,
and that's a good thing. There's a lot of good, the problems with
noster. I think you're right to say that noster is more than a
platform than a Twitter are alternative. And what I would
like to see is more is like the expansion of noster into other
other clients and into being integrated in other clients.
Like, what's No sir? No, sir. It's like a publish subscribe
model where you can receive messages that you want to
receive. So I don't, I'm not sure that it can. Basically, in
order to work efficiently, it needs to have like a fat client,
like a Smart Client. And then all the work is being done in
the in the clients. And I'm not sure users are used to the
experience of over over in an intelligent client because all
the information all the logic is in the client. It's not in the
release. I have a sense I have like a feeling that realize will
have to evolve and be smarter and even add the GFI altering
the aid, the filtering and AI algorithms to provide good
Adam Curry: caching. I mean that's this is all the stuff
that years and years went into activity pub and and And even
though I don't, I have not looked under the hood of what
the relay does, I know what it does. It's like holy crap,
there's going to be the, again, the good thing that's come out
of that is, hey, you can pay to use my relay, okay, and now
we're talking, that's great. But there's a lot of development
that needs to be done on the relays before it can be really
functionally you kind of have to have your own relay with your
own group, which, by the way, is Mastodon
Unknown: mastodon? Yeah, maybe. You mean, like more? Yeah, I
don't know, if sanskars to if it can scale to like, hundreds of
1000s and user of users and millions of users, maybe they
will have to be more focused on specific use cases, specific
discussions in groups
Dave Jones: using URL and URL that's called a DDoS. Attack. I
mean, that's, that's probably going to be like, that's, that's
the concern I have is, you know, in some ways, that noster as a
replacement for Twitter was probably the worst. It's
probably the worst use case. Like, it would have almost been
better if they had gone some different route and just didn't
even like pure Pub Sub, subscribe, you know, mechanism,
instead of trying to recreate Twitter on nostril because you
get in there. I installed the client for the first time this
past week, just so I could speak and you know, understand what we
do.
Unknown: You have like 100 and 100. Clients like yeah, day by
day means damos demo day with you every day. You're lucky.
That's the bit. Yeah, well, I've installed the Android and iOS
users. So I don't have the fortune of
Adam Curry: Me neither, Roy Me neither, I'm jank shit. I got,
I'm using Amethyst is amethyst, I don't like Amethyst, and Iris
Iris actually works a little better than
Unknown: Iris amethyst, this snore, like I use all of them.
Dave Jones: That is on debt. But that experience has gotten
Unknown: better, let's say let's say a Yeah, it's early, early,
early, early Tech, I am coming from an enterprise software
lacking enterprise software, you would never release something
like faster. Never. So, so it's early, early, early tech, but I
see an impact. Like, as a user, I see a relays are more stable,
more robust, more serious, like I see the improvement in the US
as well. Now.
Dave Jones: I'm just I'm afraid when the when the when the I'm
just afraid when the when the kid point when the child porn
stuff shows up, and there's gonna be no way to handle it.
And it's just gonna, the whole thing's gonna melt down because
it's, it's a ball. It's a it's a Yeah, it can blow this thing can
blow up in 1000 different ways. And I'm not sure if people are
prepared for the, for the blow up. Well, so that's what was
wrong
Unknown: with the blow ups. It's good, it will progress. Like it.
I think like I like the tech experiment, and I think that
will only result in like evolution and improvement. It's
not Bitcoin, like, I don't think we need to apply the Bitcoin
mindset of everything needs to be like, very, very robust and
stable in order to it's a building block the, it's the
most basic building block, I think, in Noster, there's room
to make mistakes, and we should expect that things will blow up
and they will, and it's good. It's going to be for the good.
Adam Curry: The the the I just look at trends. That's kind of
what I do. And I see the you know, it's censorship resistant.
Oh, my God. Okay, no, there's no real it's just a little bit too
much of that marketing. Yeah, let's
Unknown: talk about that. Because I think that's the key,
like, censorship resistance in my ass, because at the end of
the day, it's an iOS app, and it's in a Google Play app. And
everything is being controlled by Google and Apple by the end
of the day. So
Dave Jones: that's what I see as the most likely outcome to this
honestly, Roy is that we have seen this already. I mean, look
at truth, social. Look at these websites, look at these social
networks that got pulled front and gab and they get pulled from
the app stores because they didn't meet the the moderation
requirement. You're required. If you run a social network and put
that you put your social network app in the app stores. You're
required by Google and Apple to have a social use a to have a
moderation functionality. You don't have
Unknown: to I think I think they most did add the demo demos,
demos, demos, I don't know how to pronounce that. But I think
they added some features to be able to comply with this A
regulation they do have a way to market sensitive content, they
do have a way to filter stuff at the client that the client can
say I don't want to see sensitive content. So I think
they, they've made some work. I'm not familiar with all the
nips, but they added some nips in the to bed to the to deal
with this requirements. But if Apple won't like the most, then
they must want the client
Adam Curry: right. By the way,
Unknown: I serve today is censorship resistant in my ass.
Adam Curry: I love that great ice. Alright.
Dave Jones: What is this ISO button this
Adam Curry: will they're literally transcribing the
podcast in real time. You do dollar sign ISO and then you
type in the words you want isolated, and it spits back an
mp3.
Dave Jones: This is voodoo because I saw somebody do this a
while ago, and they misspelled the the they misspelled the
transcript. And it still shows.
Adam Curry: Yeah, Roy, you're not in the chat room probably.
But it's crazy. What's going on here. They literally have a bot
where you said I typed in dollar sign ISO censorship resistant my
ass and it sent back that that mp3 in the chat room on with a
link that yeah, this is magic. It is yeah.
Dave Jones: I need somebody needs to get SAS for this is
what it was this is incredible. Well, I don't I'm just I'm also
a little concerned about the I don't the bifurcation, that's
where we made this model of, you know, boosts in payment, you
know, payment methodologies, or like, spontaneous payments over
lightning and that kind of thing. And it feels like the nip
57 stuff just sort of went a completely different direction,
because it's Ellen URL.
Adam Curry: What is that in NiP? 15? What is that I have no idea
what that is. That's
Dave Jones: zap, that's the protocol for how to do a zap.
Oh, and it's all based around Ellen URL, but I feel it feels
like Okay, now we have, because I think that we like we had
already done this, you know, done the work here to get some
histogram and all this stuff and over over things
Unknown: is apps is that you want to be able to, to be you
want the knowledge that is app was executed. A you don't get
that with key sand, you do get that with the beat, in theory
nipa 57.
Dave Jones: So I'm glad you brought that up, Roy, because
that see, I feel like that could have been the solution to that
could have been Alex's just JSON payment token, which gives you a
payment receipt for for your keys. And in in response it
could in that could have been truly a synchronous, so you
could have you send your key send and then wait to receive a
synchronously wait to receive your JpT back with your payment
receipt. And like then you get the best of both worlds, you get
key sin without you know, without URL and URL overhead.
And you get the payment receipt. Like I feel like they went off
and just sort of did did this stuff, you know, without
consulting, but I mean podcasting 2.0 I mean, we're,
we're slinging SATs around all over the place. And if I felt
like was kind of been down with
Unknown: some work being done to the lightning addresses into the
into the podcast in TECHSPEC. Right. So I think everything is
converged the widow lighting address and now the lighting
address is can be a key scent interface. It can be an Ellen
URL interface, and it can be when both wealth is is a is
popularized. It can be also both wealth. So I like I don't think
it's an issue because everything will get consolidated around
lightning address at the end of the day.
Dave Jones: How long do you think it's going to take to get
to for l&d to move on bolt? 12 So just two years, I mean, no,
Unknown: no, no, no, there is already work being done a spiral
actually are funding a sorry, well, either spiral or
chaincode. Someone is fine is funding Clara, a, a one of the
one of like a developer that used to work for lightning labs.
On l&t Now she's working for either chain code or spiral I
think spiral. And she's working on this stuff at the l&d l&d
code base. And I think her work will be accepted and will be
merged in in there. What I'm trying to say there is an
external push outside of life. In labs to integrate Bolt 11
Bolt well features into l&d. I think I'm not sure it's
mandatory for l&d to support but both 12 and because I think
there will be other solutions. And if both If l&d wants support
both with, I think they will be the one that are left behind.
Dave Jones: Okay, that's good to hear. I'm glad that there's at
least movement on it, because it just seemed like it was just
ignored for a long time.
Unknown: Yeah, yeah. I again, I don't want to portray the l&d
guys in the lightning labs guys is the bad guys here. They have
their on their plate. There. 95 plus percent of the nodes are
running their software, so I'm sure they're busy. There are
some, by the way, it's not just with l&d. I think the challenge
if you're talking about issues and problems with lightning at
will, and we were doing like a SWOT analysis for lightning, I
think the the fact that every implementation push for their
own protocol agenda, that's the main problem of, of lightning
LDK are pushing to their own direction a lot, l&d are pushing
into their own direction as sink and, and seelen as well. So
that's the problem.
Dave Jones: We see the same thing in podcasting. And every
every podcast app, pushes in their own direction and does
their own thing. And then it really you end up with most most
of the time, it's, it's a beautiful thing, because
everybody sort of adheres to a common common base protocol of
sort of a common way of doing things. And it's, it's great,
but then there's, if you get, there's a level of complexity
that you want to reach to do a specific thing. And it just kind
of falls down because everybody's going their own way.
So you there's, I guess we're anytime you get this much level
of decentralization, it's not, you're always going to fight
these battles. And we're going to have some visually
Unknown: around the bruises standard standardization. I
don't know how you can do the sometimes discussion discussions
like I always opt out at some point like I can, like everyone
has an opinion. And it's very, very, very hard to
Adam Curry: oh, this is exactly this is exactly what happened
with podcasting for 10 years, everyone had an opinion, they
had groups and steering committees and and nonprofits
and industry groups. And now, ultimately, everybody is in it
for their own business. And that only works that only works if
everyone's a part of the money flow. That I think is not going
to say it until I until I spit my last breath into the into the
microphone. That is what podcasting 2.0 That's why it
works because everybody has an opportunity to get into the flow
of the money no matter what you're doing. That's the secret.
And even the communist don't know it.
Unknown: Yes, friend. Yeah. So I think part of the problem with
lightning that lightning is still looking for a go to market
fit. So the money isn't really there. So it's the groups like
the various implementation, they can't really aligned around the
requirements, because everyone has their own requirements, and
they think they have a different, like slightly
different product market fit. And that's a problem.
Adam Curry: Well, I'm not quite sure I understood what you just
said there.
Unknown: I mean, lightning is still looking for, like l&d is
focused on an enterprise I structure. Yeah. LDK are
focusing on mobile clients, a CLN are focusing on cloud
environment.
Adam Curry: No one's focused on an actual real world
application.
Unknown: No, no, it's an infrastructure. Yes, it's an
infrastructure work. And we don't really know, we don't see
the money yet. Let's be honest. If the money was there, I think
everyone will be able to align around like, the priorities and
in the what requirements are more important than others, but
doesn't happen right now.
Adam Curry: Well, that all depends on what you what you
define the money as being I mean, we we've we've amassed a
full Bitcoin over the course of the project so far. We're I
mean, we would starve if that's what we had to live on, but
we're pretty happy. I mean, it's like a magic money machine to
me.
Dave Jones: But the bolt that brings me back, that's what I
was talking about Bolt 12 is because if you want to look at
anything that's an actual real world use application, it seems
to me that the only there's two things that have floated to the
top in the lightning world that are real world use applications.
One is remittance payments across borders, international
borders. That's that's a legit use case that's actually
powered. We're in a lot of a lot of financial improvement
people's lives. And the other one is spontaneous payments for
created works, whether it's podcasting 2.0, or whatever or a
zap over Nasr would spawn take you have you have remittance
payments, which are fine for an actual food, you're fine to do
with invoices, pre generated invoices. But then the big, the
big 100 800 pound gorilla for use case with lightning is
spontaneous payments in response to immediate demand created
work. And so
Unknown: that again, that means
Dave Jones: that the 12 Yeah,
Unknown: you need both. Well, first to let out let's talk
about the use cases that you just presented remittance for
some people in the lightning community remittance mean, you
need to support stable coins. Online. That means Tarot lnd,
lightning labs are focused on thorough and thorough means
TabPro channels, temporal channels require a lot of work.
So challenging? Yeah.
Adam Curry: Well, and with that comes a misnomer. And I still
read it. We were reading an article today. The the concept
of value for value versus tipping, I think most
development organizations, see what we're doing is Oh, that's
tipping. And yeah, if you consider it to be tipping, then
out the end of the game, you're gonna get a fraction of the tip.
You know, it's like, you're not, you're not going to make a lot.
But as Dave pointed out at the intro, you got to think about
the instant What do you say Dave? About for creative work,
you know,
Dave Jones: taneous, payments, spontaneous payment,
Adam Curry: spontaneous payment for creative work. I mean, it's,
it's an industry that is hundreds of billions of dollars,
we just haven't figured out how to capture it yet.
Dave Jones: I mean, people have spent Sol million a million set
zap the other day to think think to Africa, who was to, and then
I mean, we've gotten the 5 million set, Buena Vista Grande,
like these are, these are significant amounts of money
that are going through spontaneous payments. So I think
I mean, if they lean into that, I think it would really help
people, you know, to know the way forward because everybody
you talked to says, Well, what keys and you know, that's hacky?
I would like to use something that's not hacky. That will be
great.
Unknown: Yeah, I agree. I think all the all the people in the
ecosystem agree around the use cases, it's not just about the
use cases is how to go about implementing these use cases.
Right. Some think it should be completely decentralized, some
thing that we need to work on building custodial
infrastructure, that means enterprise a solution,
enterprise grade solutions. Again, with a stable coin,
something we need to add, we must add a stable coin layer in
order to popularize the solution. So it's not just about
the user. Let's see. For example, let's take a concrete
example. A remittance now you can do, using strike a bit No by
pouch like there are the way that remittance are working on
top of lightning right now is using custodial applications,
that gives you integration with existing Fiat systems. That's
the way that you do remittance on top of lightning right now.
And there are some people in the ecosystem that we that think
that we need to keep remittance in Fiat. That's why
Adam Curry: That's why right. But they're building a real
world solution for their own benefit instead of thinking
further down the road. A so that specifically strike they use
stable coins, all kinds of stuff to get it into Fiat on the other
end. And so they want they're forcing a use case, which is not
necessarily the best for lightning long term.
Unknown: That again, like in Bitcoin and in lighting in
general, the best for lightning the best for Bitcoin is
dependent on the community and the people that are building the
solution and there is no consensus around what's best for
lightning. What's best for Bitcoin? Well, like it's, by
definition, it's it's inherently there's no one answer to that.
And since there's, there's no a single answer to that. There.
You have different people pulling in different directions.
Dave Jones: So when when can I build the breeze SDK? Like when
is when can I build it?
Unknown: Come on, Dave. Just
Dave Jones: but you said you said I needed green light
though. You said I needed the green light port part. Right.
Unknown: Oh, it oh, sorry, that's my bad, I didn't give you
a green light access. Okay, now what we try to do what we try to
do, we try to upload the crate into a repo that you won't have
to build the bruises decay, I don't know. So I waited for the
team to get that done in order to give you like access to the
Create, instead of forcing you to build the SDK. Currently, the
early design, we're in the early alpha stage, let's just put
that, put that out there. And we're working with the selected
design partners that are already working and building and giving
us feedback on the SDK. But in order to do that, you need to
greenlight access, I wanted to help Dave and spearing the need
to build the SDK and upload the crate to our repo. I need to
check where where we are. We're clearly
Adam Curry: not a partner Dave just went on. When I did
partner, partner exit, we're not good partners. Oh, I'm sorry,
partner, my mother and now I'm like a Jewish woman. Okay. I
want to bring your attention to something which I'm very excited
about, which I am sure will be one of the first to integrate
this. And that's the music side project music side. project.com.
Yeah. Just so you know that, you know, we're starting to, we're
using a 2.0 namespace to tag music in the in the index. This
is Steven B's project, who does a curio caster and sovereign
feeds. It's it's fantastic.
Unknown: I love the White Lake are using the same Yes,
unification. Yeah, yeah.
Adam Curry: Yeah. And I think wavelike put 100 100 artists
into the index. Dave, what happened there? Exactly. Yeah,
Dave Jones: they're Yeah, they're letting their light in
their whole catalogue up as it comes in.
Adam Curry: It's beautiful.
Unknown: It's beautiful. You agree, Adam, that in order to
support music, we need a separate dedicated user
experience for music, right?
Adam Curry: Yeah. Is that what you're building?
Unknown: Anyone will be able to build it using the freezes
decay. But that's
Adam Curry: what music side project is ready for? I mean,
it's, it's a web app right now. But I, I'm I like web apps
personally. I'm okay with that. So use it out of the box without
any of the the wakeup stuff.
Unknown: If the integrated breezes decay into their server,
Adam Curry: sure, sure. Sure.
Dave Jones: Yeah. Yeah, that's what I that's what I want the
breeze SDK for, I want to, I want to have use cases for it on
our, on our node. I mean, we do a lot of stuff. So I want to,
you know, I want to get in there and start and start using, I've
got, I've got ideas, and it's mine is gonna be totally a
server side thing. And, you know, we don't do apps. So yeah,
I mean, I think the server use case to me is the most
straightforward right out of the box. You just go you just hit it
and go. Yeah, but that doesn't
Unknown: mean that we're in between NF T's or something,
right?
Adam Curry: Oh, yes. More. ordinals please, more ordinals
yay. We love ordinals
Dave Jones: Yeah. We want to thank some people.
Adam Curry: Oh, my goodness is at that time already? Yeah, we
Oh, wow. Yeah, I'm going I'm all lightning out here. Yes, of
course we do. Hold on a second. Let me thank some of the people
who have been sending in some booster grams while we were lips
and a millennial. 5432 don't know if you've heard but I so
bought us cotton gins baby seems value split worthy to me. I
would love to use the isobar all the time in every show. I do.
Let me know where I can sign up. I love I love getting access to
services by adding a split in the value block. It is one of
the most exciting things a podcaster could do. A nice
Unknown: problem by the way I them. Like I like the amount of
splits that we have in podcast index is I don't know if it's
good. But
Adam Curry: hold. You can't just lob that out there and just say
I don't know if that's good. What I'm telling me what's
wrong, what's happening.
Unknown: I think it's good for boosts meaning how many splits
you have right now eight or nine or 10 or something on this show
Adam Curry: on this show and the show. It's alive. No, hold on.
Hold on. Hold on. We have. I'll tell you right now. Value
123456. So we had eight but after that comment, we have
seven. We're taking you out
Unknown: at the edit at the app split as well, so
Adam Curry: and podcasts index, so there's 10 Probably 1010
Coming Yes. Now. I'm sure that's not efficient is what you're
going to say.
Unknown: And it's okay when you do boost for streaming sets per
minute, I think.
Adam Curry: But you're you're caching them but you're I mean
everyone I'm
Unknown: smart. That's what I Yeah. So you have a way to work
around this stuff by doing like client side cache, right? But it
means that you have to have like, again, back to the Smart
Client problem. You need to have a smarter client to deal with
issues.
Adam Curry: Got it? Yeah, I got Okay. Well, luckily breezes very
smart about that. Right.
Unknown: I like them software. I don't like soft smart software.
Adam Curry: Okay. Well,
Dave Jones: I believe I believe that too.
Adam Curry: I mean, I see the problems obviously, but but Bolt
12 will fix all that. Just tell me that's true.
Dave Jones: Well, smart, smart software. The problem with smart
software is it can't ever be smart enough. And so that you're
you always there's always going to be a hole. Yeah.
Adam Curry: Or, or maybe it's time to abstract that. Can we
have a boost class? So, so so? Stop, okay. I'm sorry. Come on,
man. This was a good idea. So you know, the podcast index
boost class would be you me the index, you know, a couple of
things. We stick in there and just one address and it splits
somewhere else down the line? Is that crazy? Okay? Stopped
blueberry. See? It's not what?
Unknown: It's not crazy. Dave?
Adam Curry: My new friend Roy's boost class. Okay, I'm just
saying the reason I think we made this up with the remote
item. If I play a song on a new podcast that I'm going to do,
and I'm playing new music from from the index, and I want to
boost I want to boost that product, which by itself may
have eight splits because of you know, who wrote it, who compose
it, who played the guitar, who sang, etc. That would be a boost
class. So I would send an amount which would be a split of my
show to that class, and that class would then split it
individually. Yeah,
Unknown: yeah. And technically I don't want to get too geeky
about it, you can do that maybe you can do that with bolt 12
Because that will allow you both will allow you to unlock keys
and there is interaction with the with the with the pay before
you pay them so they can initiate a new type of invoice
which is kind of similar to hold invoice where the entity that
will do the splits later on. They can take the funds but they
will be able to create an invoice you send the funds to to
that to that entity and they can split the funds later on. Using
the invoice This
Dave Jones: is a Bitcoin bubble study that's this is exactly
what
Adam Curry: this is. You're back in the split. Okay. Boober
11,111 Cheers to IRC and the badass is who make it the
hottest spot with bots on the internet to hang Is it possible
to boost by IRC? I think it is actually I think there's some
I'm sure something has been done on IRC one of the oldest chat
mechanisms on the internet still fantastic today, Lyceum was
1776. Good to hear Roy's future plans. Liberty boost. What is
the acronym SDK stands for software development kit. Best
premises? That's Martin Linda's koge Tea Party media podcast.
Chat F with 3333 He says with neural link you'll be able to
download podcasts straight to your brain. No listening
required. Yes, absolutely. Yes. Yes. And the boosts will be
extra, extra nutritious.
Dave Jones: Yeah, you put the breeze SDK into a noncustodial
ready brain
Adam Curry: 15,000 from Matt madeiros. Thank you Matt. Always
be closing Dave like check out the podcast. setup.com Douche
mode activated two times speed. His brain is so fried and we
don't even know what you're talking about.
Dave Jones: Just word salad. It
Adam Curry: happens. That's what happens to you. Chat F another
3333 We are experiencing the death of Fiat podcasting. Yes,
we are exactly what's going on. I like PF FP See ya fiyat
podcasting, the Fiat industrial podcast complex. With another
one while doing my V for V reports. I tried listening to
the donation sections at 1.25x and couldn't even do it. Yes,
Chad has taken upon Himself to a document how much we receive in
value for value and Fiat and on each basically the whole podcast
index podcast and 2.0 project, which is interesting. I hope
he's going to charge it because I'm not quite sure middle
Dave Jones: name is is Chad Excel fair. And that's right,
Adam Curry: sir Spencer 42,069 SATs Laureen and I would like to
thank you by the way, I'd like to invite the board and all
interested parties out in the promoting stuff to our upcoming
bowls with buds featuring the legendary podsafe Dave Dave
Jones this Sunday Live Live Live Sunday after no agenda. This
week was the one year anniversary of live items debut,
which took place the last time Dave was on That's right.
February 20 2022. That was the and that was just two days
before the Ukraine war. Yeah. So we'll be talking live items
first year in retrospect and where we go next go live go
podcast. Go podcast a lot of good boots today Lyceum super
row of ducks. 22,222 ducks in a row. Congrats on the new domain
name pot. Yes, podcast. apps.com. That is again. Martin
Interscope. Blueberry back. I 7777 says you're not even my
real dad. Do we talk I guess it goes back to the beginning of
the show. Eric p p Thank you got your mail Eric p p 33,333.
pillow for podcasting. That's for for Roy with his pillow fort
built up around this his setup. Blueberry, boost the groove with
another 3333 and let's see we have tone wrecker. 20202 Nice
20,202 music projects on value for value are ripping along
seeing more artists testing the waters each week need to work
with Steven B to get some artists released or catalog
filter with a cap on so I don't overrun what is displaying in
initial feed on the music side project site. Just excited to
test and learn not dominate over additional artists appearing in
pages. Not sure again, do stop loosened at normal speed. We
can't understand what you're saying.
Dave Jones: He's flat. He's flooding his own.
Adam Curry: Shop and Oh, Todd Cochran 150,020,
Unknown: his blades on the Impala.
Adam Curry: He says big thank you to the fountain team and
getting their app demo video out. Oh, do we miss a demo
video? Wow, that's fine. That pure listener and podcasts are
marketing videos like this are needed. Indeed. apps need to be
promoting hosting companies need to be promoting we that's not
what we do. Clearly. Also, People's Choice Podcast Awards.
Registration is open be nice to honor a stack of podcasting 2.0
podcast it would be indeed, although I get my awards, right
online, where it shows that we're the top earner. That's the
awards for me every week. Hey, we're on top again. At podcast
awards.com There you go. We have our round two blueberry
blueberry stack of new features planned for the GUI meeting next
week. Let's keep the ball rolling, go podcasting podcast a
nice, thank you very, very much Todd, that Todd man. job will be
the one to implement my idea. By the way, give people a wallet,
get that get that breeze SDK integrated right into your stack
there. So you don't have to do anything but call a one API call
and and insert yourself into the ever growing list of splits. And
just take that take 20% right off the top of your free
account. Free Account. Go ahead. But you have to do 2.0
Dave Jones: And I'm always surprised at the people like
Dave, Dave Weiner this week said podcasting. 2.0 is a terrible
name. The guy
Adam Curry: the guy who the guy who used RSS 2.0 Please give me
a break.
Dave Jones: At least I'm always stunned at the people who are
shocked that about our lack of marketing skills and like this,
you should you should know this by now. Well, this is not what
we do. I can
Adam Curry: tell you Dave whiners. Head is is crooked, and
it's very much in the Leo Laporte arena. Because when he
says I know how he thinks, and this is why we don't get along.
You think Oh, Adam is trying to capture something for himself
called a podcasting. 2.0 In fact, I am on record literally
saying podcasting. 2.0 is just podcasting.
Dave Jones: Yes, you have said this 1000 times Yeah, and you
gotta call it something you can't call it roast beef. I
mean, we gotta call it something so I mean, just grab something
out of the air or whatever.
Adam Curry: It's it's a double edged sword sword you know, I
guess it's I'm I'm slipping like a mofo. It's so it's so bad.
Dave Jones: It's only been a week. Let me rescue you.
Adam Curry: Just I just need to. If I push the bottom lip, see if
I push press the lip against my decrepit hole between the
temporary teeth and my gums. It's gone. What tape? I'm gonna
go have some scotch tape. Paula, you'd start reading those. We'll
be right back.
Dave Jones: Marco $500 Marco Arment. Thank you very much
comes in every month and we're hopefully doing a project with
Dan Benjamin's So Marco was gracious enough to give Dan some
feature that he needed in his in his APS were market market and
very much appreciated in this. Hopefully we'll get some 2.0
stuff Adam soon. Buzzsprout also 500 dollars.com 20
Unknown: blades on I am Paula. I
Adam Curry: just heard that as I was coming back, hold on, let me
just Yes. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on
Dave Jones: You take the bottom lip.
Adam Curry: Yeah. Yeah, let me see. I'm taping it. Oh, this put
one under my lip here. Tighter. Yeah, later. Okay. Now it
doesn't work. And it hurts. And thank you, Marco. I just was
walking out to get the tape. I heard Marco. Thank you so much
Marco.
Dave Jones: And the boys from Buzzsprout we appreciate them
every month and they if they get stuff coming to so we're
Adam Curry: What do you mean they got us off? Come they got
new stuff coming up. The kids
Dave Jones: keep telling you what they got.
Adam Curry: We got secrets now. Okay. All right. Yes. I'm
Dave Jones: Tom told me.
Adam Curry: Roy. Roy, let's not tape tell Dave about that thing.
Okay.
Dave Jones: Fine. Yeah, fine. No, no, you don't need another
paper. You don't just I'm just gonna read it. I'm just gonna
tell you the Joshua Hoover gave us $150
Adam Curry: Holy crap.
Unknown: Shot call those blades on him. Paulo is
Adam Curry: this post,
Dave Jones: Joshua Hoover from the podcast index dot social.
He's working on some. He's working on some stuff. And I
helped him this week with some API.
Adam Curry: That's nice. Thank you very much is me. He says
Dave Jones: Keep up the great work. Adam and Dave. And we
will. Yes, thank you, Josh. Appreciate it. We got some Mr.
Graham's we'll see when we scroll to the top of my booster
grant. Oh, here we go. How was writes in us a reset as Angela
Richards 1111 He says I saw the live tag on pod verse and I felt
compelled to boost Yes, that's how it works boost. Absurd event
since it's 100,000 sets and he says hey ho and go podcasting
Adam Curry: podcast. I should probably mention last week right
now someone midweek on the on chain. Tally coin. Dred Scott
80,000 SATs.
Dave Jones: No, the only guy the only guy who really
Adam Curry: the only person who ever uses an on chain donation.
Just goes to show
Dave Jones: he went old school in the middle of a mempool
hurricane to you probably paid fees for that. And he's
Adam Curry: like, Honey Badger just He don't care. She doesn't
care you.
Dave Jones: Thank you obsidian for those 100,000 says
appreciate that so much. Hard Hat 101 A one. there Curio,
Catherine no note thank you. I've had chat F 3333 Is this
beef milkshake ain't right is a phrase I never want to hear
again. booths. I'm telling you when I was just a big chunk
Adam Curry: to eat it was so nasty. Yeah, a big chunk in your
milkshake. It's just also wrong.
Dave Jones: Melissa texted me a second ago and said beef, beef
bugs on the front porch. So I'm good to go after the show.
Adam Curry: We can see another Yeah, nice. Yep.
Dave Jones: A nine of woodland Shire. Oh, that's a beautiful
name a nun of woodland Shire? 99,950 SAS through pod verse.
Wow says he or she says I think I just purchased Bitcoin for the
first time to participate in the V for V. I hope I did this
right? Isn't the amount very little or am I being cheap? Cat
Adam Curry: 99,000 That's just a little. Um, you know what? I'm
gonna throw in a couple of stats and give you 20 blades on the
hem Paula? Yeah, we don't have a set sound I guess.
Dave Jones: We don't eat on it's like the penny drill. Yeah, we
don't have Penny. No. When you look at digital digitized
version of whatever. There it is. Yeah, thank you anon of
woodland show. Macintosh 2121 through fountain. He says I love
the idea of a searchable index of transcripts. Index of the
data isn't hard. It's the putting together of meaningful
complex searches. But I would personally use it multiple times
a week if it happened to be available. Anyways, we can dream
right? Go podcasting, Macintosh.
Adam Curry: Big up to the same Steven B. Once again, transcript
transcript DAST search dot versal dot app. It's in the show
notes. He has created a very basic transcript search which I
have used five times this week already. This is so genius I
mean that You have to tell you can search the directory now. So
oh wow, podcasting. 2.0 you typed that in and then it gives
you okay, you select the podcast, and then you want to
search for a term, but search for douche. And oh actually
12345 but a whole bunch of episodes where we use the term
do show Oh my goodness. And you can click on it and then it
shows you it shows you the whole rundown and then you can
actually click on the click on the time and it gives you the
audio or hearing this message that's how fast it goes. I mean,
that is phenomenal. It needs a domain name. I'm gonna I'm gonna
buy a domain name for your Stevens. I love this. He has a
you know, he asked for transcript search tool for for
some support. I would put you my you should lock this down to
only people who put you in their split split number 14 for my
podcast now.
Unknown: Yeah, I wonder out this trust free software will deal
with my Israeli accent. I think the software
Adam Curry: you know, while it's only as good as the transcripts,
I mean, I guess because I have I do transcripts interesting. I
don't know. I don't know it does pretty well with stuff like
that.
Dave Jones: When you said when you said my ass a while ago, it
picked that up pretty quick. It was it was on top of the game.
Yeah. Nailed though. Let's see we got gene been 4096 cents.
That's a that's a 4k killer boost is what that is found. He
says the female hackers are just smart enough not to get caught.
That's right. That's right. Man, Macintosh again. 2121. No note
thank you Macintosh. Big row of ducks. 22 To 23rd from Gene
bein. He says Matt props to Nathan for what he's done with
steno.fm. It's really impressive. I particularly love
the way the transcripts are presented and that trailers are
presented prominently. Also, seeing my show volunteer
technologist in the trending list is pretty cool. Oh, nice.
All right. Excellent. I didn't I didn't know he did that show.
That's
Adam Curry: for some reason. Our art. Transcripts don't show up.
In what? In stinner. Yeah.
Dave Jones: I don't know why. I wonder if it's a browser bugs.
Adam Curry: Oh, it may be cores issue.
Dave Jones: Oh, yeah. Yeah, some of you. He's fighting that
battle a lot. Yeah. And browser, you know, mere mortals podcast
or buddy? chyron over there. 2222. He says, geez, so many
waking up to glory jokes. I don't even know where to start.
Adam Curry: Streaming. Exactly.
Dave Jones: Kalil 9999. Through fountain he says about the
search, would it be possible to create some sort of pod rank by
scanning transcripts for mentions of other podcasts?
Probably AI needed or something anyways, go podcasting. My first
boost was love Khalil go. I could give you some sort of
like, you know, Link, incoming link type reference. Yeah, I
could see that. I liked
Adam Curry: I just like, I would like to know, well, that's kind
of like the activity feed that fountain house. If I see that
you if I see my friend has boosted a podcast with you know,
50,000 sites, I'm going to be interested. Yeah, that kind of
correlations. What really? What really, I love that. I love
seeing.
Unknown: I'll just say again, that I think this needs to be
podcast index API, the activity.
Dave Jones: The activity feed. Yeah.
Adam Curry: Well, how do we do that? We don't have that
information.
Dave Jones: I'll do it. Yeah, we do, though we have the boost for
not for anything, because it's voluntary lines
Unknown: need to push the information and then the needs
to be indexed by the index and have like a unified API for all
the clients
Adam Curry: that being that as a road of argument.
Dave Jones: Yeah, well, slewed, 33 333. He says, Dave, I want to
give you a tip that I learned from the Andrew Huberman
podcast, if you add a little bit of caffeine into your beef
milkshake, it would actually increase the flavor profile
subconsciously, in forming addiction, but in a good way, go
podcasting
Adam Curry: podcast, I'm just struck by was Roy said, so and
what you said. So we could basically since we, if if, if
people are supporting the index, when they use the API, we can
see which podcasts receive what which amount of boosts or money.
In fact, we could do bike transactions by boot. We didn't
wouldn't have to do it by amount, but we could do it by
number of booths, number of transactions.
Dave Jones: Yeah, and that's, that's part of what I'm thinking
for the breeze SDK is I'd like to have some separate function
for that.
Adam Curry: Yeah. I agree because doing it on that doing
on the big voltage node is scary.
Dave Jones: Yeah, do you know ROI that we had when we export
it, we had to export all the transactions for our taxes. And
we have almost 6 million transactions on the note. Only 6
Adam Curry: million it doesn't fit in an Excel and I can
Unknown: say that because I'm a Jew.
Dave Jones: Yes, we have let me rephrase that we only have 6
million right into the guy who probably has 47 billion
transactions in your in your across your node fleet.
Adam Curry: Hey, Dave, I'm putting that high in my in the
top of my brain what you just said the I love this idea. I
love
Dave Jones: it. I really do this morning about who so we need
some stats pages, you know that sort of give that? I love that?
Yes. Because I was reading that article and it was like, it was
like noster zaps. noster zaps. Oh yeah. And there's this
podcasting tip when
Adam Curry: tipping has increased with podcasts. It's
like no, okay, I'm putting this high on my on my on my scale of
things. I'd love to see yes, that would be the best marketing
ever and just make it available for anybody. Just take a look.
Oh, here's what's going on. I love it.
Dave Jones: We'll do it Jean been 4096 He says glad y'all are
continuing to run with scissors I'm really excited by cross app
contents me too. I am robot since 10,004 sets it says
informative informative and educational. Always adding these
tool sets to my toolbox five by five in the pipe
Unknown: Yeah, we love that boost boost boost
Dave Jones: 6969 from a citizen to pod verse and he says thank
you too for all that you do raise his fist at the ordinals
people get off my chain boost
Adam Curry: Get off my chain
Dave Jones: 2222 from Captain Egghead he says go podcasting go
podcast 500 SATs but this is a nice note this is my first boost
I came here after listening to Bitcoin review and the episode
with Adam. You told me to come listen to this so boom here I am
Baby
Adam Curry: All right welcome to the party Powell
Dave Jones: How you doing booster for logs and 26,000 SATs
it's an honor to watch this project grow Thank you
Adam Curry: no thank you thank you for supporting it that's
exactly how it works.
Dave Jones: I'm some guy named Roy since 54,321 54321 sets
through breeze of course. And he just says podcast index.org
That's right Don't just post it's not a very creative note
ROI
Unknown: I mean what do you think I put it in there I don't
know that's think you ever
Adam Curry: sometime you send say something nice
Dave Jones: you could you didn't have enough in house alcohol
that night. More dreams like drunk ROI that's
Adam Curry: the best ROI yeah and isn't it time isn't must be
pretty close for you to start hitting the bottle ROI
Unknown: my butler results with the champagne
Dave Jones: Chris last from Jupiter because Fisher's 188,000
sads
Adam Curry: Whoa,
Unknown: shot caller 20 blades on
Adam Curry: oh nice thank you
Dave Jones: through the podcast index website another gift. Me
Yes beautiful. Message says Jupiter broadcasting just passed
a year accepting boosts. It's been amazing and we're all in
testing lit video and audio.
Adam Curry: Oh man, those guys I love them. So tipping is up at
8000 tipping is up yeah, that's not a tip people touch value.
Dave Jones: I get the feels you've been going through hell
and back with that mouth of yours recently. I feel you
brother in respect the stiff upper lip approach you've been
taking on air? I hope you're doing all right and you're in
our thoughts go podcast.
Adam Curry: Oh, thank you, man. I appreciate the podcast. It's
well, I was I was just I was just thinking the other day yes
it's a pain in the ass and I you know they can't keep up with
fixing stuff so the soliciting changes because of the multiple
procedures but considering I had out what I thought were
allergies for 10 years those are gone. I no longer use my hearing
aids. I've got a three for one. I'm truly blessed with this. I
can deal with this listing for a couple more months we'll I mean,
I have been so fortunate with doing all this
Dave Jones: cool neutering eight things is crazy. The hearing
aids thing is nuts
Adam Curry: have not had them in for weeks at this point.
Dave Jones: I can't even I don't even understand
Adam Curry: well because my my sinuses were being you know
there was an infection there so they were always in you know,
it's like your your tubes you know your your your your hearing
it was connected to all the other sinuses and all the tubes
and it was just gunky in there. I guess I'm you know, pissing
green oozing slime
Dave Jones: for another comic strip blogger Darius 3015. He
says, howdy, David, Adam. It CSB with a special message for all
you gringos out there. Now, Greg, I know you Amir, you don't
Adam Curry: that's racist comics or Blogger blogger we're just
saying that's racist man.
Dave Jones: The place too far away from Mexico. He doesn't
understand. Now. I know you Americans like your podcasts
like you'd like your burgers, big bold in juicy. And that's
why I'm here to recommend a real sizzler for your ears. Ai dot
cooking with our very own Gregory William Forsythe
foreman. So don't be a chump on Bray, head on over to AI dot
cooking and give it a listen. Yo, CSB.
Adam Curry: CSB is so funny. And he's always about ai, ai cooking
machine learning AI, the singularity is coming. And they
say, Hey, you know, I'd really love some kind of engine that
looks at the transcripts and you know, and makes recommendations.
It was something really simple
Dave Jones: like search in August when I'm not busy
Adam Curry: now. He says, oh, not profitable project. Okay,
all right, fine. Fine. That's all good. And Steven B came in
and fix it for me.
Dave Jones: monthlies are partners limited $5 Paul air
skin $11.14 Charles current $5 Michael Gert Gagan $5 James
Sullivan $10, Christopher Raymer $10 Corning Glass Buck $5 Sean
McCune $20 and Jordan Dunnville sin dollars,
Adam Curry: thank you all very much for supporting podcasting.
2.0 you're supporting the project, you're supporting the
infrastructure, you're really supporting everything and the
future, your future proofing podcasting 2.0 the index. As
everything stays within the node for liquidity, everything is
being built up so that if we fall down, we just need to have
an automatic payment thing set up with with Linode. You know,
so just put it like a, like a dead man's switch just starts,
you know, kicks in and starts paying for everything. So thank
you, we appreciate that you can do it in multiple ways. The best
way is go to podcast apps.com Get one of those modern podcast
apps that you can boost with we love the booster grams. Of
course if you want to use your Fiat fun coupons, podcast
index.org. At the bottom, you've got the big red donate button,
you can use PayPal for that or on chain, which is now dred
Scott's personal payment portal. But you can join him there in
and be part of the on chain rebel to get on his chain if you
want to. So thank you all very, very much. It is wonderful to
see everything taken off like this. And then of course value
for value dot info to learn more about the concept and it is
time, talent and treasure. So everything anyone is doing is
helping and moving things forward. And we appreciate it.
With that, let's see. Reuters you have anything else you'd
like you want to talk about before we let you get off to
your pure weekend festivities of champagne caviar, etc.
Unknown: Okay, since we the only time that we get to talk is
during your podcast.
Adam Curry: Oh, man. Oh,
Dave Jones: man. The guilt.
Adam Curry: There's the Jew guilting. Us? Yes. Okay.
Dave Jones: Yeah, now you sound like my mom. I gotta get back to
work. We gotta we gotta we gotta chop it. We gotta chop,
Adam Curry: chop and drop. I do want to
Unknown: hook you up with SDK stuff. Dave, don't worry about
it. And thank you. Thank
Dave Jones: you. Thank you. I'm done to get into that. Yeah,
Adam Curry: Roy, we really appreciate all you've done to
support us, besides just you know, absolutely being there.
For any questions or insights into the industry. I think, you
know, I'll call you more often. I'm sorry, it's completely my
fault. I was just knowing I was having had surgery. I expected
you to show me as you can soup with chicken.
Unknown: I just wanted to say like, I miss you. And that's
what I'm trying to convey. I know, I know. I'm doing it with
you my own like passive aggressive way, but
Adam Curry: it's appreciated. Quick reminder, pod bean is
going to be using the 2.0 namespace for transcripts. We
appreciate that I'm sure Todd Todd had something to do with
that now that he's over there. Rob, Rob Greenlee and, and
Dave Jones: for those years s.com also rolled out the TX T
tag.
Adam Curry: Oh, beautiful. And reminder and remind your
listeners if you're a podcaster. You can export your
subscriptions and import them into any good app. And I think
all of our apps do that. People always questioning how do I get
my subscriptions Export Export OPML export podcast. Promote
that as much as you can. Roy we look forward to you know the SDK
to rolling that out you just gave us some great ideas. I
liked the recommendation, or the ranking or whatever we're going
to call it. And thank you for being a real strong supporter of
the project with the websites, too. We'd really appreciate it.
Yeah.
Unknown: Thank you guys. Thank you for exposing me to the
wonderful world of podcasts.
Adam Curry: Yes. And one of these days we'll get you to
listen to more than just one. There's a lot out there you
might enjoy the other way. Why?
Unknown: I like listening to your rent.
Adam Curry: Just listen to this half of a podcast because that's
twice the speed. All right. Great weekend, Roy. Have a great
weekend. Chat Room. Have a great weekend. We'll talk to you next
week podcasting 2.0
Unknown: you been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast
index.org for more information.
Censorship resist in my ass