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Adam Curry: On casting 2.0 For
April 14 2023, episode 129 We

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got Turkish punk. Hello,
everybody Friday once again time

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for the official board meeting
of podcasting. 2.0. Yes, we are

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the only podcast boardroom with
music and it's hard. Everything

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happened at podcast index.org
and namespace and of course, all

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the shenanigans and says are
running at podcast index dot

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social. I'm Adam curry here in
the heart of the Texas Hill

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Country. And in Alabama, the man
who rubs your pub key right into

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a chat. Say hello to my friend
on the other end, ladies and

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gentlemen, Mr. Dave

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Dave Jones: Jones didn't know
where you're going with that.

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Like it

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Adam Curry: like it? Well,
that's what you've been doing.

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You've been like, making chaps
and robbing pub keys into it.

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And I guess,

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Dave Jones: read have done Yes.
I was terrified on the way home

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that like our guests today we've
tried to skip the third time we

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tried to schedule a miss finally
worked. And I was like, I

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thought oh my god, I'm gonna
have a flat tire on the way

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home.

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Adam Curry: I was waiting for
anything to happen. So I told

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him, I said, you know, this
third time, so it's your hope

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it's a charm. But

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Dave Jones: I mean, for context,
we I don't think we've in the

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entire history of the show,
which was two and a half years

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now. Yeah, move it up on three.
Yeah, yeah. entire history of

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the show. I think we've had one
problem with a guest. And it was

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within enough time to where we
could actually fix it and make

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it work now. These guests, we
we've had to reschedule twice

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for once for like, you know,
weather and the other one

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because I screwed it up. And

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Adam Curry: then the third time
because I had to have my my, my

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mouth looked at again. Alright,
well, we'll get to them

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momentarily. First of all, we're
lit. This is the new thing all

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the kids are doing. Everyone's
talking about it being lit what

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you want with your podcast. Now,
besides pod verse, curio caster,

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podcast addict, podcast guru
joins the crowd, you got a

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successful test yesterday
tweeted me that no agenda had

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worked. So that's good. And the
guru? Yeah. The guru. Exactly.

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And I was listening, I think it
was, was it podcast weekly

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review, talking about? Well, you
know, it's really a good thing

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doing these live shows. Because,
you know, it's really only a not

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a lot of people listen. And now
it was maybe I didn't understand

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the context of what I was doing.
But I would say the point is,

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again, look at just looking at
the at the daily and weekly

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statistics, when you have a live
show, and it's in and you're

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doing it in a certain way, which
is very interactive with the

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chat that you have going on. I
mean, it's a real value

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receiving mechanism. It's I
mean, we see pod verse outpace

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fountain on SAT totals
regularly, because shows are

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doing it was it was Tonda, lit.
Wednesday, he must have been

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lit, so

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Dave Jones: I boosted in Latvia.
So I mean,

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Adam Curry: this kind of
solidifies the whole idea that

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you don't need to be number one,
you don't need to be on the

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chart. You don't even need to be
in Apple, or orange on Spotify.

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You know, you just need to have
your, your community, your

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audience, your group, sitting
around participating. And and I

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think, I don't think podcasts
guru and podcast addict. No,

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they don't have value for value
built in. Do they're

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Dave Jones: not Yeah. It's kind

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Adam Curry: of a prerequisite
for lit these days. Part of the

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fun. I mean, anybody can listen
to a show live. And it's great

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that these apps are doing it.
But I guarantee you listeners

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want to join in because boosting
is fun.

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Dave Jones: is I don't want to
blow anybody's cover. There's

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some there. Somebody there's
another there's another app with

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Donald wants to steal their
thunder. But there's another app

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with the Wii for free come in
this this lit enabled.

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Adam Curry: Know, the pod stage
has secret information.

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Dave Jones: I hate doing that
crap, but it's very nice. That I

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don't want to I don't want to
like you know, let the cat out

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of the bag before the developers
know I'm ready. No, I'm sure

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that it's on the way that

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Adam Curry: they're giving the
exclusive to podcast Business

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Journal weekly.

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Dave Jones: review, review.

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Adam Curry: Podcast Business
Journal, isn't it? Isn't that

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the new the new newsletter
really? revamped?

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Dave Jones: It didn't did it? Am
I missing something or did is

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sounds profitable still part of

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Adam Curry: I have no I've never
understood the relationship

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never I don't relationship No.
Okay. Yeah, what are currently

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12,000 Oh shoot and just lost
the number 12,985 podcasts are

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value for value enabled almost
13,000. Then remember to help

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people onboard because you can
onboard in so many places now.

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podcaster wallet.com. Contracts
dot app fountain in the app

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itself. LB Dalbec. You Oh, yes,
right. You can onboard through

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Alby as a good one. Do we know
who's on Oh, and of course,

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what's Brian's?

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Dave Jones: The 3333 speaking,
you cannot avoid the three wave

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Lake

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Adam Curry: wave wave like, oh
my god, I just, it's really

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getting exciting. And I just got
to talk about two things. First

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of all, Steven B's split kit is
what I'm calling it.

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Dave Jones: Oh, I like that. Can
you please explain this to me?

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Because I've been there's there
was a lot of stuff that happened

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this week. And I could not keep
track of all of it. And I saw it

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and I think I understand it, but
it would be really helpful if

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you tell me what it does.

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Adam Curry: Yeah, so now I'm not
quite sure how it works with

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everything or not. But
currently, you can see yo to

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Eldon gar, I like split kit but
E L d i n g a r.com.

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Dave Jones: That sounds like a
Norse god.

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Adam Curry: I think it is. I
think it is. Elgin Gar elding

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God Okay, we're gonna remember
it now Eldon Garth, the split

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kid. And excuse me. That was
disgusting. am 58 Oh man

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syndrome. And so you you connect
it to I think currently it works

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with get Alby till you authorize
it with get Alby in your

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browser. And then you can create
a QR code or link or at the same

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time for a boost and splits for
anything you want. So I can

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just, I could just create a
bunch of let's say, I'm with my

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band. I'm on stage. And I'm
gonna put a QR code up there.

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And, you know, we got we got
just the band there. And we

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don't have a podcast and we may
not have anything on value for

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value per se. But then you can
set the set the split set the

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wallets, and then and then you
got a webpage. And that webpage

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is the QR code and alternatively
a link and you and you hit the

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boost button and it gives you
the option you got to connect it

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to your wallet, which in this
case is get Alby I think they're

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also going to connect it to the
fountain wallet, which will be

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Zebedee, and I presume more. I'm
not quite sure how many wallets

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it will support. And then and
then you basically hit boost,

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you fill in your name, the
amount the message for booster

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gram, and it does all the splits
and sends it so it's a split kit

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for any for any purpose really.

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Dave Jones: So yeah, I mean,
this. Yeah, this any any

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purpose. I mean, it's generic.
So you could do you know,

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charitable stuff. Anything?

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Adam Curry: Yeah, exactly.
Exactly. That's.

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Dave Jones: So you basically you
put you put in all your splits

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and it just spits out a QR code.

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Adam Curry: And you can even put
an image in there. I think you

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do other stuff

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Michael Rhee: like that. Isn't
that the prism?

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Adam Curry: It's well, it's like
the prism. Yeah. But it's not

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the prism. I think

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Dave Jones: the idea of the
prism is that that that's deeper

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down the stack at the protocol
level. But I mean, like this is

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a

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Adam Curry: invertible here's
what's cool, because I posted a

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QR code on noster just assumed
people would do I mean, you

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posted a QR code and Nasir
people go oh, must must must

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look at this. And people were
immediately using it. And so I

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Dave Jones: said the prison
prison, the prison

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Adam Curry: although that's the
show title the prison. So

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immediately people were using it
on noster and the and you also

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get the little confetti and all
that and, and I think I presume

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that they had their nostro
accounts hooked up to their get

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Alby which a lot of people have
and also walled off Satoshi,

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which and Waller Satoshi is a
custodial thing.

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Dave Jones: I think it has my
understanding is that they have

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a custom custodial component
like component they both I think

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it's I think it can be either
non custodial or custodial.

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Okay. But I mean, everybody
talks about it as if they have a

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custodial service, but I've
never used it. That's yeah.

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Adam Curry: Which sounds like to
me as well. Which of course, is

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it's kind of interesting to see
how the the core people who were

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there I think a lot of the
people were yelling loudly when

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lightning was really starting to
become, you know, people were

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using Lightning wallets that
were custodial. This is not the

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way to go. We need to have you
know Run runs your own node,

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your own node. And now we're not
sure like who cares?

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Dave Jones: Pretty much. Yeah,
it's funny how the all the all

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the dogma goes away once you
have, you know, once you catch

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the vibe,

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Adam Curry: the wave Yeah,
exactly. Well, I

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Dave Jones: mean, this never
made a ton of sense to me

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anyway, because there's nothing
wrong with having a custodial

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wallet that just holds 100 bucks
or less. And yeah,

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Adam Curry: as long as you have
a, you know, a noncustodial

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solution? Absolutely.

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Dave Jones: You just sweep it
out. I mean, it's not like you

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have to keep your life savings
in there.

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Adam Curry: And yeah, exact
sweep it up. But also, I like, I

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use breeze a lot as like a real
functional wallet. You know, it

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doesn't integrate with well
actually does integrate with

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most things. But for instance,
with a scratch scan the QR code,

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with my breeze wallet for the,
for the split, kit, Elden gar,

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and it's, uh, do you want to
open this URL, which I already

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thought was kind of cool, and
open the URL, just open up, you

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know, basically a web browser
connected to get Alby. So, but

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my point being is, like, when I
when I see X amount of SATs in

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my might get lb, I usually pull
it into my breeze wallet, which

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I used to buy stuff, you know, I
use that to buy B from K and C

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cattle. And, you know, so I have
probably $500 in there. And all

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my bitcoin, of course, is in
cold storage. But yeah, I mean,

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it's all just education. I agree
with you. It's not it's not out

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there. But of course, when the
day that get Albie goes down

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which it will happen. And I
don't want to I don't want to

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put nastiness on anybody. But
you and I know it will happen,

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something goes down, nothing
stays up forever. But this is

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your actual job. You know, you
you you keep machines running,

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and even the machines that the
systems you built for me, like

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freedom controller, have run for
years and years and years. And

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still once in a while. It goes
down once in a while. But it

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usually comes

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Dave Jones: back to that, by the
way, usually comes back I know

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what I'll be doing this weekend.

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Adam Curry: No usually comes up
by itself. I don't have to do

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anything. Just there's like some
kind of hiccup you have all

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kinds you got all kinds of trip
wires and stuff. I know what you

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do.

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Dave Jones: It's a it's a it's a
design. It's a design choice. I

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think we've gotten used to in
the broader ecosystem of you

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know, like cloud technology, I
think we've gotten used to

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things going down a lot. Because
there has there was the get it

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out as fast as you can run fast
and break things grow, grow,

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grow for the VC. And so cut
corners will fix it, you know,

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we'll fix it in the first patch.
Yeah, go ahead and shift. You

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know,

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Adam Curry: we'll fix it in the
first patch.

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Dave Jones: Yeah, I mean, that's
like, that's been the mindset

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we've grown used to this mindset
for the last 15 years. And so

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like, but if you go into
something with a slow, sort of

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methodical, built, you know,
approach to building it, you

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don't you don't have to fall
victim to a lot of that stuff.

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Adam Curry: Well, such as
podcasts. index.org, as far as

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far as I know. Have we I mean,
there's been some slowdowns or

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other things when people are
attacking us or scraping us but

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it's been rock solid from day
one.

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Dave Jones: It the the only
thing that is becoming

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annoyingly frequent is the five
is the 5025021

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Adam Curry: so much scraping us.
Yeah.

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Dave Jones: I don't know if it's
the same person that we did some

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high volume scrapers start
hitting us at like five o'clock

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in the morning. And it's been
predictable. And most of the

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time we're able to take it but
then sometimes like that'd be

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the last one that happened
either yesterday morning or the

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day before yesterday there's it
was down for about half an hour,

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giving five oh twos. And the
volume of this of this scraper

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was like it was something like a
million is like 1.2 million

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requests in 20 minutes.

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Adam Curry: Now, is that a
scraper or is that just a DDOS

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at that point? Well yeah, it's a

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Dave Jones: yes an accidental
denial service because the they

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were legitimately trying to try
and scrape the database.

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Adam Curry: But the point is,
it's freely available

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douchebags. You can go download
it, we make it available for

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free, and what are they scraping
just to stop this available for

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free or something? Yeah,
something

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Dave Jones: no the stuff that's
available for free they because

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they're morons. But the thing
that so what's kept me from

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doing a you know, everything's
all about budget constraints.

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But what's kept me from doing a
rate limiting at the Cloudflare

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level is that it's Cloudflare is
rate limiting product has always

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been open ended. So like, it was
like a metered product. And it

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was, the way that it was the way
that they bill for it is that

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if, if you start getting a rate
limit, if you rate limit

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somebody, they charge you for
every request, that gets rate

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limited. Whoa. Yeah. So like,
you don't get charged for this

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stuff that they let pass
through. But you would get

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charged for every request, a
fraction of a cent or something

254
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like that, for every request
that got blocked, right times

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Adam Curry: a million times a
million. Like somebody

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Dave Jones: could just like,
you, basically, you're giving,

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you're just handing your wallet
to somebody else and saying,

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Please don't hurt me to best.
Yeah, and we can't do it was

259
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never even an option. So now
they have this unmetered thing

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that is supposed to based on my
understanding, I think we get

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it, I think we are able to use
it without these scary overage

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charges. So I'm gonna give it a
shot to try to fix this. Because

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otherwise I have to write a lot
of I have to write a rate

264
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limiter on our side. And I just
have never gotten around to

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doing that every right now. It's
a slow, lazy process that

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happens after the fact looking
at logs. It's not an instant

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thing. And so I would have to,
you know, write a Redis base,

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you know, caching rate limiter,
and I just don't want it. Yeah,

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I'd rather not do that.

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Adam Curry: I hear you know,
what was here. So here's the

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here's where it gets nasty,
which so no agenda, we have our

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own cloud of servers, which we
just had historically, for, you

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know, at least 1314 years,
probably. Which voice Zero has

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been managing. And we got DDoS
real hard the other day. And it

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was, yeah, the screen? Yeah,
yeah. Oh, yeah, we go the

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00:16:44,790 --> 00:16:47,700
donation segment. Oh, I'll show
these guys. They're gonna ask

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for donations. And, and in the
process, somehow, one of the

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servers the cooling fans blew. I
don't know if it Oh, crap. So

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that machine went down. But then
when I uploaded the show, you

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know, it has to replicate across
across all the servers and one

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it didn't get didn't hit one.
And then and then man, when you

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get, you know, a portion of the
audience is just getting 404.

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But that's not how they respond
to it. They're like, why didn't

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00:17:20,700 --> 00:17:28,140
you upload to Apple? You know,
and it's, the pod verse sucks,

285
00:17:28,170 --> 00:17:32,400
like, no, no, no, no, it's just
no way. It's it's horrible. I

286
00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,550
really, it's so but when things
go wrong with podcasting, with

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00:17:35,550 --> 00:17:41,100
downloads, it go, it's always
bad. It's always always bad.

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00:17:42,120 --> 00:17:43,800
Dave Jones: That people are so
patient.

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00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,730
Adam Curry: I know. And we
appreciate their patience.

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00:17:48,300 --> 00:17:51,450
Before we bring in our guests.
I'd love to understand what

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00:17:51,450 --> 00:17:53,640
you're doing with chat if you're
ready to talk about it.

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00:17:54,570 --> 00:17:57,210
Dave Jones: Oh, well, I mean, I
don't even have to just talk

293
00:17:57,210 --> 00:17:58,980
about it. I can show you. You
could show me.

294
00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:03,930
Adam Curry: What am I going to?
I'm going to

295
00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,240
Dave Jones: let me let me signal
you this.

296
00:18:07,620 --> 00:18:09,030
Adam Curry: We're not giving
anything out on the Agile

297
00:18:09,030 --> 00:18:12,690
secret? Oh, no, no, no, no, no,
no. Don't give it to them. Let

298
00:18:12,690 --> 00:18:18,450
me see. Yes. All right. Oh, who
do you want to be? Nancy?

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00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,830
Dave Jones: Yeah. I would like I
would I would like to

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00:18:23,370 --> 00:18:25,800
Adam Curry: let me. Okay. What
are we looking at? What are we

301
00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:27,390
looking at here? Tell me what's
going on here?

302
00:18:27,570 --> 00:18:30,600
Dave Jones: No. Well, I think is
interesting. They post this in

303
00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:31,860
the chat. Right, here

304
00:18:31,860 --> 00:18:34,650
Adam Curry: we go. Here we go.
We're going crazy. I'm honest.

305
00:18:34,710 --> 00:18:36,990
I'm getting a picture of myself
here. I'm gonna do it all

306
00:18:36,990 --> 00:18:37,860
professional.

307
00:18:38,970 --> 00:18:42,900
Dave Jones: So like, I guess I'm
curious as to what you think of

308
00:18:42,900 --> 00:18:46,020
this of this initial screen
before you actually do anything?

309
00:18:46,050 --> 00:18:47,760
Adam Curry: Well, I'd like to,
I'd like this right away.

310
00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:52,470
Because I understood I put my
name Ataman. I chose my my file.

311
00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:56,550
Now. But here. Wait, here's a
noster thing. That's what oh,

312
00:18:56,550 --> 00:19:00,390
let me let me hit the nostril.
Let me see authorized forever.

313
00:19:01,380 --> 00:19:07,950
Okay, wow. Can I change my name
here? Or does it have to hurry?

314
00:19:08,699 --> 00:19:10,619
Dave Jones: Well, I mean, if it
pulled it in from Noster, it's

315
00:19:10,619 --> 00:19:14,669
going to it's going to pull in
your public your public key.

316
00:19:15,300 --> 00:19:17,970
Adam Curry: But I mean, the name
I can I can apparently change my

317
00:19:17,970 --> 00:19:21,240
name. Because it says it was all
Adam curry underscore. Okay, I'm

318
00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:21,810
doing that log

319
00:19:21,810 --> 00:19:29,520
Dave Jones: again. Well, cool.
So I don't know.

320
00:19:30,060 --> 00:19:33,240
Adam Curry: There's just a nice,
it pulled in my picture. Nice.

321
00:19:33,390 --> 00:19:41,550
It was in my profile picture
from nostril. nostril. Okay. All

322
00:19:41,550 --> 00:19:43,890
right. Well, this works. All
right. So tell it what are we

323
00:19:43,890 --> 00:19:46,620
looking at here besides the fact
that it's a badass chat? Wait,

324
00:19:46,830 --> 00:19:50,940
do I have a secret? Oh, and I
can see the stream up here. Oh,

325
00:19:50,940 --> 00:19:53,910
nice. Okay, I like it. That's a
little player there for the

326
00:19:53,910 --> 00:19:54,390
stream.

327
00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:58,620
Dave Jones: Yeah, that's right.
So this is what he was the idea

328
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:08,910
So nice. You know, we're having
our discussion last week, you

329
00:20:08,910 --> 00:20:16,320
know, I realized what sort of
the magic is of, of the way that

330
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:21,030
noster sits with people. And you
me you describe that you said,

331
00:20:21,690 --> 00:20:26,760
You know what the magic part was
that you went to you. The no

332
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:30,480
agenda social went down. You
went to noster threw in your

333
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,750
public key Erythraean your
private key, and boom, you're,

334
00:20:33,780 --> 00:20:37,800
you're up and go and right. So
the I think the real thing that

335
00:20:37,830 --> 00:20:44,820
people love about noster is is
that it has portable identities.

336
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:45,030
Is

337
00:20:45,090 --> 00:20:48,000
Adam Curry: that correct? I
think that's because I Yes,

338
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:52,590
because there's like a, was it?
Habla dot news, you can use your

339
00:20:52,590 --> 00:20:56,220
same identity to write a
newsletter or a post that looks

340
00:20:56,220 --> 00:20:59,100
like a newsletter? So yeah, it's
completely portable. And it

341
00:20:59,100 --> 00:21:04,200
pulls in me my name, my, my dt,
if you will. Yes. Which, of

342
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,660
course I would love to get some
deets from all these beautiful

343
00:21:06,660 --> 00:21:10,980
people I see, like tone wrecker.
I know Eric P. P, and who's who

344
00:21:10,980 --> 00:21:14,640
said they set up their noster
just for Nathan, Nathan. Right.

345
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,970
And so I'd love to be able to
click on Nathan G and get his

346
00:21:17,970 --> 00:21:18,990
noster deets.

347
00:21:20,100 --> 00:21:23,820
Dave Jones: So, so identity,
identity is really the sort of

348
00:21:23,820 --> 00:21:28,950
magic sauce there. Everything
else. You know, I mean, it.

349
00:21:29,490 --> 00:21:33,990
Relays whatever you could you
could put other stuff underneath

350
00:21:33,990 --> 00:21:39,150
the hood. And all that's
debatable. But as far as, you

351
00:21:39,150 --> 00:21:42,540
know, as far as just the what
the magic have been thing that

352
00:21:42,540 --> 00:21:45,870
people are infatuated with
noster is that I really think

353
00:21:45,870 --> 00:21:46,950
it's the identity piece.

354
00:21:46,980 --> 00:21:50,280
Adam Curry: I agree with you.
But that plays Oh, yeah. All

355
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:51,330
right. Yeah, you

356
00:21:51,330 --> 00:21:52,860
Dave Jones: know, but it goes
both ways. Like we said last

357
00:21:52,860 --> 00:21:56,520
week, I mean, you you a lot of
times, you don't want a static

358
00:21:56,520 --> 00:22:00,390
identity that follows you
everywhere. If somebody goes

359
00:22:00,390 --> 00:22:06,930
into a chat session in a live
show, they Yeah, we're both by

360
00:22:06,930 --> 00:22:09,540
the way, multiple, multiple
different chat rooms and a

361
00:22:09,540 --> 00:22:12,870
single podcast live, this is
this is destined for, okay.

362
00:22:14,220 --> 00:22:15,240
Adam Curry: I'm looking at both
of them.

363
00:22:16,860 --> 00:22:21,930
Dave Jones: really confusing.
So, so the, like, you may not

364
00:22:21,930 --> 00:22:26,040
want your identity or a
particular identity tied to a

365
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:30,480
certain thing that you're
involved in. But the nice thing

366
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:35,010
about about the simple Public
Private Key Pair with noster is

367
00:22:35,010 --> 00:22:38,370
these can be possible. Yeah, be
throw away accounts.

368
00:22:38,369 --> 00:22:41,039
Adam Curry: Just just like a
bitcoin address. throw that one

369
00:22:41,039 --> 00:22:41,939
out. Use another one.

370
00:22:42,420 --> 00:22:45,600
Dave Jones: Yeah, so this. So
what I what I started thinking

371
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,950
was what if we just sort of
embrace just that part of things

372
00:22:49,950 --> 00:22:53,250
to begin with? So MK Hoelscher
was the chat server that I had

373
00:22:53,250 --> 00:22:57,480
pulled in or that that I had
built, like, built halfway,

374
00:22:57,510 --> 00:23:01,890
maybe a year ago to try to start
playing around with Super Chat,

375
00:23:02,340 --> 00:23:04,680
cuz we have lit and we were
gonna say, Okay, well, let's

376
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,140
pull in booster grams. I just
had the Super Chat idea. And the

377
00:23:07,140 --> 00:23:13,920
idea of MK Ultra was you have
you have a it's a chat room that

378
00:23:15,030 --> 00:23:19,680
that podcasters can spin up
easily. And it's sort of an

379
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,490
ephemeral chat room. They can
last as long as the episode or

380
00:23:23,490 --> 00:23:26,940
as long as they wanted to. And
it pulls in all their booster

381
00:23:26,940 --> 00:23:30,390
grams and everything as this
stuff is flowing in and activity

382
00:23:30,390 --> 00:23:32,880
pub and all the different things
that they're flying around. It's

383
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,480
pulling all this stuff into a
chat into the chat room. And

384
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,960
then at the end of it, it
exports you can have it as the

385
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:45,060
podcast, you can have an export
a timestamped Super Chat file.

386
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,980
Adam Curry: Oh, oh Na, you can
export that and then you can you

387
00:23:49,980 --> 00:23:54,600
can use that as a set weight,
then we can integrate that into

388
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:59,340
Daniel J. Lewis is decentralized
cross camera stops.

389
00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:06,840
Dave Jones: Not yet. My brain
you I'm sorry, I'm

390
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:08,550
Adam Curry: sorry. I'll stop.
I'll stop. Okay,

391
00:24:08,580 --> 00:24:12,180
Dave Jones: so then you can
export this timestamped Super

392
00:24:12,180 --> 00:24:16,260
Chat file and now you have
something you can replay like a

393
00:24:16,260 --> 00:24:19,620
real super chat and you can
attach it somehow to the episode

394
00:24:19,620 --> 00:24:24,510
in the feed. And for people who
are you know, replaying your

395
00:24:24,540 --> 00:24:26,850
your episode or whatever, you
can figure out the time stamping

396
00:24:26,850 --> 00:24:29,520
out stuff all this stuff still
takes work but that you would

397
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:33,240
have something to replay Okay,
so if you pull if you pull that

398
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:40,170
idea into any combine that with
nostra identities, so you can

399
00:24:40,170 --> 00:24:43,530
spin here's here's how you spin
this thing up. You you run, you

400
00:24:43,530 --> 00:24:47,670
run the code on command line,
and it gives you a session ID

401
00:24:47,670 --> 00:24:51,960
which is that Cid equals blah
blah blah in the URL bar, gives

402
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:58,140
you a session ID you put that
goes into your lit tag when we

403
00:24:58,140 --> 00:25:02,580
have the chat when we have a
Podcast co launch app tag

404
00:25:02,580 --> 00:25:05,580
finished, right? That goes in
there. People go to that when

405
00:25:05,580 --> 00:25:07,650
they when they're listening to
the show, they can listen to the

406
00:25:07,650 --> 00:25:10,950
stream right there on the page.
But when you go into the page,

407
00:25:11,370 --> 00:25:14,160
it says, Do you want to have you
want to use your noster? Id,

408
00:25:14,190 --> 00:25:17,520
Adam Curry: right? Or something
or something else? Or do you

409
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:17,670
want

410
00:25:17,670 --> 00:25:21,510
Dave Jones: to create an IDE, an
identification? And Id?

411
00:25:21,540 --> 00:25:23,520
Adam Curry: Are you creating a
container with

412
00:25:23,519 --> 00:25:26,489
Dave Jones: that? Yes. Oh,
sweet.

413
00:25:26,670 --> 00:25:30,360
So what happens is if you create
a key pair instead, if you

414
00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:34,380
create an identity instead of
using a nostre identity, it

415
00:25:34,380 --> 00:25:40,980
still creates a nostre identity
for you, man, after you do

416
00:25:40,980 --> 00:25:43,350
those, since you used your
nostril identity, since you

417
00:25:43,350 --> 00:25:47,430
didn't see this part, no, I did
that if you if you had just put

418
00:25:47,430 --> 00:25:51,690
in an avatar and a name and hit
Create, it would have popped up

419
00:25:51,690 --> 00:25:54,990
and said, Here's your public and
private key pair, please save

420
00:25:54,990 --> 00:26:01,950
this for safekeeping. Do you now
want to post your identity to

421
00:26:01,950 --> 00:26:05,010
the nostril network so that you
can use this identity elsewhere?

422
00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:09,600
If you say yes, you can, you've
now created an a nostra identity

423
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,210
and you can take that and you
can go anywhere else somewhere

424
00:26:12,210 --> 00:26:15,060
Adam Curry: else. Oh, nice. Oh,
it's awesome identity creator.

425
00:26:15,330 --> 00:26:18,870
Dave Jones: It is an identity
creator. And so if but, but the

426
00:26:18,870 --> 00:26:22,290
key here is if you look up at
the top where your your avatar

427
00:26:22,290 --> 00:26:23,520
is, you have the little
checkbox.

428
00:26:23,550 --> 00:26:27,870
Adam Curry: Yeah. I see a little
checkmark, I want my post to be

429
00:26:27,930 --> 00:26:28,650
ephemeral.

430
00:26:29,100 --> 00:26:32,400
Dave Jones: Yes. So if you if
you that's the prince or the

431
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,820
master privacy switch, if you
have that checked and it's

432
00:26:35,820 --> 00:26:40,950
checked by default, anything you
chat will not be broadcast back

433
00:26:40,950 --> 00:26:45,240
out to noster any it won't go to
any realize it stays with you

434
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:46,920
know what happens in the
boardroom stays in the

435
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:47,340
boardroom.

436
00:26:47,820 --> 00:26:50,310
Adam Curry: So what I'm what I'm
posting now is going out to

437
00:26:50,310 --> 00:26:50,910
noster

438
00:26:51,300 --> 00:26:53,190
Dave Jones: if you haven't
checked it is not going to

439
00:26:53,190 --> 00:26:54,330
nostril, these these

440
00:26:55,290 --> 00:27:00,690
Adam Curry: nostril. Okay, so
uncheck it. And I say testing.

441
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:07,230
The board room chat. Okay. Yes.
All right. Now I know I go to my

442
00:27:07,230 --> 00:27:11,730
nostril. Yes. Funny. It was
funny because I use I use snort

443
00:27:11,730 --> 00:27:17,550
so it makes total sense. And I
go over here. Oh, man. Dave

444
00:27:17,550 --> 00:27:18,810
Jones, what have you done?

445
00:27:19,170 --> 00:27:22,740
Dave Jones: Now? You know, of
course the drawback of nostril

446
00:27:22,770 --> 00:27:27,240
is it slow? You know, relays
then things don't happen quick.

447
00:27:27,510 --> 00:27:31,710
This, this. If you uncheck that,
and you and you start posting

448
00:27:31,710 --> 00:27:34,530
those posts should go federated
out to nostril.

449
00:27:34,590 --> 00:27:36,600
Adam Curry: Okay, I haven't
gotten it here yet. By the way.

450
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:41,070
I do. See I got a I got a noster
from Jack Dorsey.

451
00:27:42,420 --> 00:27:46,830
Dave Jones: The nostril a post
post? Yeah. Okay. Hey, Jack,

452
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:51,000
arguing with you about Joe
Rogan? Yeah, of course.

453
00:27:53,970 --> 00:27:56,670
Adam Curry: He disagrees with
me. Like I don't care. So.

454
00:27:56,940 --> 00:28:01,230
Dave Jones: So the idea like,
with MK Ultra, it was already a

455
00:28:01,230 --> 00:28:04,110
WebSocket based chat server.
That's the way it was designed

456
00:28:04,110 --> 00:28:12,990
from the beginning. Right. So
now what it is, is a is a sort

457
00:28:12,990 --> 00:28:18,750
of ephemeral chat room where you
control what, where those

458
00:28:18,750 --> 00:28:23,520
messages go. And if you just
want it to be something, if you

459
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,310
want to go into it, you're
essentially going into incognito

460
00:28:26,310 --> 00:28:30,030
mode for the sake of this
session. And then you don't have

461
00:28:30,030 --> 00:28:33,960
to worry about this stuff going
out into the broader world. You

462
00:28:34,350 --> 00:28:40,770
but but here again, so it's all
nostril inside. Cotton, but it

463
00:28:40,770 --> 00:28:42,810
doesn't have to go anywhere
else.

464
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,440
Adam Curry: I love it. I love
it. I love it. I mean, what a

465
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:50,700
great start. They've I mean, I
can see so and this is exactly

466
00:28:50,700 --> 00:28:54,000
what I thought Nasr would be
good for, is for for doing stuff

467
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,000
like this outside of the social
network known as noster.

468
00:28:59,100 --> 00:29:01,380
Dave Jones: The good The good
thing about it is not that I

469
00:29:01,380 --> 00:29:04,950
didn't have any sort of schema
internally for this. So the

470
00:29:04,950 --> 00:29:08,400
nostre are sort of message
format. All that stuff is

471
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,790
basically this MK Ultra is now
noster on the inside, got it?

472
00:29:11,790 --> 00:29:16,350
Yeah. And it even if nostril
nostril fails. You know, even

473
00:29:16,380 --> 00:29:18,660
even if it gets us on its
infection, it goes away.

474
00:29:18,900 --> 00:29:21,060
Adam Curry: This will still work
this this continues to function.

475
00:29:21,060 --> 00:29:21,420
Yeah.

476
00:29:21,870 --> 00:29:25,740
Dave Jones: Right. And the
internal schema for the

477
00:29:25,740 --> 00:29:28,800
messages. That's fine. I mean, I
just needed one anyway, so I'll

478
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:32,010
just do this one. It's not a big
deal. But now the so the next

479
00:29:32,010 --> 00:29:37,470
step is to switch the WebSocket
portion of it to speak that

480
00:29:37,470 --> 00:29:39,570
language and then

481
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,740
Adam Curry: take it from other
places as well. If want

482
00:29:43,740 --> 00:29:47,010
Dave Jones: if wanted, yes, and
so then at that point, you can

483
00:29:47,310 --> 00:29:52,170
then we can start writing the
bridges. So so the idea here is

484
00:29:52,170 --> 00:29:56,730
not to make this a noster thing
I got the idea is to have is we

485
00:29:56,730 --> 00:29:59,970
want this thing sucking in. You
know that way somebody can post

486
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,670
Do you know somewhere else?

487
00:30:03,780 --> 00:30:08,010
Adam Curry: TV? Yes. IRC, I
presume?

488
00:30:08,130 --> 00:30:11,370
Dave Jones: IRC? Yes. Yes. And
it will it will all come in here

489
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:16,260
into that. Oh, fun. It'll all
get funneled in here. Yeah. And

490
00:30:16,260 --> 00:30:18,900
so the end the night it's
pipeline a bowl, so you can

491
00:30:19,890 --> 00:30:22,710
Adam Curry: Oh, no pipeline. No
Show title.

492
00:30:23,940 --> 00:30:28,290
Dave Jones: Yeah. This is
wonderful. You know, this is

493
00:30:28,290 --> 00:30:31,440
great that people didn't think
that I would anticipate HTML

494
00:30:31,950 --> 00:30:32,610
injection.

495
00:30:33,630 --> 00:30:36,090
Adam Curry: I'm glad. Oh, hello,
everybody. Do you know who

496
00:30:36,090 --> 00:30:39,390
you're talking to? Is Dave
Jones, the pod says you can't

497
00:30:39,390 --> 00:30:39,660
fool.

498
00:30:41,250 --> 00:30:45,270
Dave Jones: Anyway, the the, you
can you can sort of pipeline it.

499
00:30:45,270 --> 00:30:51,600
And we could put this into like
the, the web hook and sovereign

500
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:55,950
feeds. So that when you do you
notice when you spin up a

501
00:30:55,950 --> 00:31:00,840
sovereign state, a new live
item, right, right. webhook

502
00:31:00,870 --> 00:31:03,570
would also trigger spinning up a
new chat session, a new chat

503
00:31:03,570 --> 00:31:03,810
room,

504
00:31:04,290 --> 00:31:06,180
Adam Curry: but it hasn't come
through anywhere on any other

505
00:31:06,180 --> 00:31:09,480
nostril clients, but I presume
that's just because it's, it

506
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:09,810
might be

507
00:31:09,810 --> 00:31:11,760
Dave Jones: the relays that is
connected to you. Because you

508
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:13,740
know, this is a hint here again,
it's

509
00:31:14,730 --> 00:31:16,980
Adam Curry: probably nostril
exact. Well, it doesn't really

510
00:31:16,980 --> 00:31:19,170
matter to me right now. I'm
super happy with what you're

511
00:31:19,170 --> 00:31:23,040
doing here. This looks so cool.
And it makes so much sense. And

512
00:31:23,220 --> 00:31:27,150
no one has to add me in the
accounts. Yeah, that's the

513
00:31:27,150 --> 00:31:31,770
beauty. The beauty no admin of
accounts. I love that. Do so

514
00:31:31,770 --> 00:31:34,560
Dave Jones: at the at the
bottom, you have your public

515
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:35,580
private key pair.

516
00:31:35,670 --> 00:31:36,870
Adam Curry: Oh.

517
00:31:37,740 --> 00:31:40,980
Dave Jones: And you can you can
take those you know, you can

518
00:31:40,980 --> 00:31:43,500
copy and paste them and take
those with you if you want to go

519
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,700
and use the use your newly
minted identities. Where else?

520
00:31:47,700 --> 00:31:51,990
Yes. I'm working on lots.
There's lots of work to do. Can

521
00:31:51,990 --> 00:31:52,050
I

522
00:31:52,050 --> 00:31:54,390
Adam Curry: put this link in the
show notes so people can play

523
00:31:54,390 --> 00:31:57,300
around with it when the after
the after the show is over?

524
00:31:57,300 --> 00:32:01,650
Okay. All right, dude. Nice. All
right. So we're just we're just

525
00:32:01,650 --> 00:32:03,420
calling this a first look.

526
00:32:04,230 --> 00:32:07,800
Dave Jones: First Look, first
look, again, various. So yeah,

527
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:12,390
well, we'll start bringing in
bringing in other stuff as soon

528
00:32:12,390 --> 00:32:14,490
as the WebSocket stuff is
converted.

529
00:32:15,540 --> 00:32:18,480
Adam Curry: Cool. I think it's
time to bring in our guests,

530
00:32:18,810 --> 00:32:21,060
since we've gotten all GD,
unless you have something else

531
00:32:21,060 --> 00:32:26,040
to talk about. But for now, I
guess. Yes. Our guest today. You

532
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,130
heard earlier we've been trying
to get them in for for several

533
00:32:29,130 --> 00:32:31,500
weeks now. Actually, it's
probably a bit longer than that.

534
00:32:31,500 --> 00:32:35,100
They've been working on this.
They are part of the hottest new

535
00:32:35,100 --> 00:32:40,230
ship that is coming to value for
value and the podcast index. So

536
00:32:40,230 --> 00:32:43,350
hot in fact that people can't
even wait for full apps. They're

537
00:32:43,350 --> 00:32:46,470
just going ahead and then
running with scissors which we

538
00:32:46,470 --> 00:32:50,280
love. Please welcome from wave
Lake co founders Michael Rijn,

539
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:57,990
Sam means hello. Oh, they said
he's Unison Hey guys, welcome to

540
00:32:57,990 --> 00:33:00,270
the boardroom. Thank you.

541
00:33:00,300 --> 00:33:01,230
Michael Rhee: Great to be here.

542
00:33:02,250 --> 00:33:04,200
Sam Mean: All this nasty stuff
you guys are talking about and

543
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:09,840
Adam Curry: yeah, I've no idea.
We're running with scissors once

544
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:10,290
again.

545
00:33:11,460 --> 00:33:15,150
Dave Jones: This this crazy new
chat rooms get every attempt to

546
00:33:15,150 --> 00:33:21,120
SQL injection. Dread drips God
just posted RM dash RF slash

547
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:21,570
star.

548
00:33:23,310 --> 00:33:24,360
Adam Curry: Good work drive.

549
00:33:24,629 --> 00:33:28,169
Michael Rhee: You got a great QA
team. Krauss Oh, yeah.

550
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:33,840
Dave Jones: What so are you
speaking of speaking of nostril?

551
00:33:34,290 --> 00:33:37,200
Or do you how do you guys have
you ever had any sort of

552
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,000
presence on that on that
network?

553
00:33:41,130 --> 00:33:43,830
Michael Rhee: Yeah, yes, sir.
And pup, just get a pen and

554
00:33:43,830 --> 00:33:46,650
pencils out. I'm ready to go.

555
00:33:47,730 --> 00:33:50,880
Sam Mean: Yeah. Do we have
enough time for this? Yeah,

556
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,730
we've, yeah, we've been we've
been playing around on the

557
00:33:53,730 --> 00:33:57,960
roster. I think I was the I was
the nostra advocate for a

558
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,960
minute. And now, Michaels coming
around? It seems like you guys

559
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,630
are coming around to I remember,
not not even too many episodes

560
00:34:03,630 --> 00:34:06,300
ago, it seemed like you were not
super into the idea that

561
00:34:07,830 --> 00:34:08,490
technology is,

562
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,380
Adam Curry: that's why there's
two of us, you know, it's like

563
00:34:10,410 --> 00:34:13,950
some push back and push forward,
back and then something pops out

564
00:34:13,950 --> 00:34:18,240
of the bottom. Let's talk about
tell me about you guys and how

565
00:34:18,240 --> 00:34:21,060
you created wave Lake and let
everyone understand what wave

566
00:34:21,060 --> 00:34:24,510
Lake is. Because this is, you
know, we've obviously been aware

567
00:34:24,510 --> 00:34:27,990
of each other for a long time
but trying to get in into a

568
00:34:27,990 --> 00:34:31,410
room. We're in the room now.
Tell us where you're coming from

569
00:34:31,410 --> 00:34:33,240
what you're doing. Give us the
lowdown?

570
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:35,670
Sam Mean: Sure. Michael, you
want to start?

571
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:42,150
Michael Rhee: Yeah, I guess. So.
wavelike basically is a way for

572
00:34:42,150 --> 00:34:46,830
artists musicians to put music
up online and get the coin in

573
00:34:46,830 --> 00:34:50,760
return from their fans. A lot
you know in the way the value

574
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,580
for value work. We're trying to
bring that or bring music to

575
00:34:53,580 --> 00:34:57,450
value for value. I started
working on wave like about a

576
00:34:57,450 --> 00:35:00,120
year and a half. I love that.
Love that little step down By

577
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:04,260
the way, also isn't it isn't I
think it's really funny. Like,

578
00:35:04,590 --> 00:35:07,500
it started off as booths. And
now like, if you talk about

579
00:35:07,500 --> 00:35:10,560
booths on Noster, like, no one
knows what you're talking about.

580
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:11,730
They're like, what is it?

581
00:35:11,879 --> 00:35:14,099
Adam Curry: What is the booths?
Yeah, I know. I know. Yes. Like,

582
00:35:14,099 --> 00:35:14,189
we

583
00:35:14,190 --> 00:35:15,480
Dave Jones: don't even exist,
you know,

584
00:35:15,509 --> 00:35:17,789
Michael Rhee: like, right. Yeah,
the kids are calling us apps

585
00:35:17,789 --> 00:35:21,989
now. So, you know, we I think we
can just call them SATs. You

586
00:35:21,989 --> 00:35:22,949
know, that works, too. But

587
00:35:23,850 --> 00:35:26,190
Sam Mean: yeah, so I started
working and electric tickle,

588
00:35:28,050 --> 00:35:29,490
Adam Curry: electric to another
show?

589
00:35:30,780 --> 00:35:34,890
Michael Rhee: Et for sure. So
yeah, I started working on wave

590
00:35:34,890 --> 00:35:39,240
Lake about a year and a half
ago. for this exact reason, I

591
00:35:39,240 --> 00:35:42,690
just, you know, started learning
about lightning and thought, you

592
00:35:42,690 --> 00:35:45,060
know, I'm a huge music lover,
you know, I used to play in a

593
00:35:45,060 --> 00:35:48,420
band. And I thought, well, this
would be really cool to just

594
00:35:48,420 --> 00:35:51,870
have people be able to sense
that to musicians, instead of

595
00:35:51,870 --> 00:35:55,680
having all these giant streaming
platforms out there that are

596
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:59,580
recommending me like just giving
me terrible recommendations all

597
00:35:59,580 --> 00:36:03,900
the time. I just wanted to kind
of selfishly find cooler new

598
00:36:03,900 --> 00:36:07,140
music that, you know, those
algos wouldn't be able to

599
00:36:07,170 --> 00:36:10,620
recommend me. So I started
building it around the same

600
00:36:10,620 --> 00:36:14,790
time, kind of, coincidentally,
one of the first things that I

601
00:36:14,790 --> 00:36:19,770
found was Sam's music on
lightning app called sphinx

602
00:36:19,770 --> 00:36:25,650
chat. It just kind of made, he
made kind of like a podcast feed

603
00:36:25,770 --> 00:36:29,460
or a channel on things chat, but
he had put his songs on there

604
00:36:29,460 --> 00:36:32,640
instead of having podcast
episode. So that was my first

605
00:36:33,030 --> 00:36:36,120
kind of meeting with Stan. But
we, you know, we didn't interact

606
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,370
or anything, it was just my
first time, the first time ever

607
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,940
heard of him. And then I think a
few months later, I launched

608
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:45,990
like a really early version of
wavelike. And Sam was one of the

609
00:36:45,990 --> 00:36:50,580
first people to check it out.
And like we were on a late night

610
00:36:50,580 --> 00:36:54,570
Twitter session over DMS trying
to like debug stuff, because I

611
00:36:54,570 --> 00:36:59,790
set it up to have artists bring
their own node connected to the

612
00:36:59,790 --> 00:37:03,450
site, and then there was all
this kind of legwork required to

613
00:37:03,450 --> 00:37:07,410
get you on board. But we finally
got through it. He got on, you

614
00:37:07,410 --> 00:37:09,300
know, he was one of the first
artists on there, if not the

615
00:37:09,300 --> 00:37:15,600
first. Yeah, and then, you know,
we started talking more, I

616
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,030
learned more about him, you
know, he runs lightning store as

617
00:37:18,030 --> 00:37:21,690
well, which has all these dope T
shirts that are Bitcoin themed

618
00:37:21,690 --> 00:37:25,500
and stickers and stuff. Yeah,
learn more about his background

619
00:37:25,500 --> 00:37:29,940
as a musician who started
talking more. And then yeah, in

620
00:37:29,940 --> 00:37:34,440
the last, I don't know, nine
months, we kind of decided like,

621
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,770
we should get serious about
this. And then, yeah, the wave

622
00:37:37,770 --> 00:37:42,120
like that you see today is
basically that the result of

623
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:43,410
that collaboration.

624
00:37:43,860 --> 00:37:48,120
Adam Curry: So now, wave lake
itself, you have your own system

625
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:52,770
running for people to pay for
music and listening to you have

626
00:37:52,770 --> 00:37:55,620
different ways of doing that.
And then we'll talk about how it

627
00:37:55,920 --> 00:38:00,120
interacts with value for value
podcast apps. What exactly is

628
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:01,830
the mechanism on wavelike?
itself?

629
00:38:04,140 --> 00:38:07,380
Michael Rhee: Yeah, so the way
we have like work today is you

630
00:38:07,650 --> 00:38:11,430
sign up for an account, we tried
to make it really easy. You have

631
00:38:11,430 --> 00:38:16,230
an email address, or a Twitter
login, or a Google login. Once

632
00:38:16,230 --> 00:38:19,260
you're logged in, you
automatically get a wallet

633
00:38:19,470 --> 00:38:23,460
assigned to you. And if you're
an artist, you can start

634
00:38:23,550 --> 00:38:26,580
uploading tracks and a really,
really easy to use interface.

635
00:38:27,630 --> 00:38:33,330
And then once you press publish
those tracks go out to our

636
00:38:33,330 --> 00:38:36,540
website, and then we
simultaneously create an RSS

637
00:38:36,540 --> 00:38:41,820
feed. That is podcast to Dotto
compliance.

638
00:38:41,850 --> 00:38:43,980
Adam Curry: Whoa, who's got the
train? Hello.

639
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,420
Sam Mean: That's me. That's
definitely me. Sorry, I work I

640
00:38:48,450 --> 00:38:51,360
work in an old industrial
building. And there's three

641
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:52,200
right on schedule.

642
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:54,840
Adam Curry: Sam, clearly on the
wrong side of the tracks there.

643
00:38:55,890 --> 00:39:00,150
Michael Rhee: Yeah, yeah. So So
yeah, so once it's uploaded, the

644
00:39:00,150 --> 00:39:04,500
music appears on weebly.com for
our users to zap or you can just

645
00:39:04,500 --> 00:39:07,080
app anonymously, you can just
anonymously can just you know,

646
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,420
generate an invoice for
something you like if you're

647
00:39:09,420 --> 00:39:12,210
hearing it and you're not logged
in, you can just boost it it'll

648
00:39:12,210 --> 00:39:15,750
create a bolt 11 invoice for you
and then you can support the

649
00:39:15,750 --> 00:39:18,660
artists that way and then
simultaneously we have got these

650
00:39:18,660 --> 00:39:23,430
RSS feeds and I think yeah, some
of them have been shown up on

651
00:39:23,460 --> 00:39:27,330
players like fountain and curio
cast or not curate cast or music

652
00:39:27,330 --> 00:39:31,290
side project. And I don't know
where else they could be going

653
00:39:31,290 --> 00:39:35,340
elsewhere as well. But yeah, we
were trying to you know, we're

654
00:39:35,340 --> 00:39:40,440
trying to support artists in the
in the best ways possible that

655
00:39:40,500 --> 00:39:45,150
in this kind of this new
emerging world of lightning and

656
00:39:45,330 --> 00:39:47,580
Bitcoin and not cast it out, oh,
and

657
00:39:47,580 --> 00:39:48,390
Sam Mean: now noster

658
00:39:48,420 --> 00:39:51,720
Adam Curry: Do you have any form
of splits setup? Do you have a

659
00:39:51,720 --> 00:39:55,050
split editor that that people
can use when when the feed is

660
00:39:55,050 --> 00:39:57,060
created or when their account is
created?

661
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,980
Michael Rhee: Not yet, not but
we will Got that. So yes it

662
00:40:02,100 --> 00:40:04,380
Adam Curry: because that's,
that's always been my dream

663
00:40:04,380 --> 00:40:09,510
having dealt with I mean, I'm a
radio I know Michael you're also

664
00:40:09,510 --> 00:40:14,940
both you guys radio guys as
well. But as a radio guy I

665
00:40:14,940 --> 00:40:18,300
always want to play music in my
podcast and there is there's

666
00:40:18,300 --> 00:40:23,160
just no legal way to do it with
ASCAP BMI, etc, licensed music

667
00:40:23,310 --> 00:40:26,370
and the I forget the EU all the
mechanical stuff, if it's

668
00:40:26,370 --> 00:40:29,460
downloadable, it's a quagmire,
the only way you can really do

669
00:40:29,460 --> 00:40:32,640
anything is, you know, is you
can have a stream great, you can

670
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,220
have a pre programmed stream,
and there's all these

671
00:40:35,460 --> 00:40:37,470
limitations as to what you can
do. So it's completely

672
00:40:37,470 --> 00:40:41,640
unworkable. And I always felt
that with the split

673
00:40:41,670 --> 00:40:46,410
architecture, you can circumvent
all of that. So that writer

674
00:40:46,410 --> 00:40:51,150
composer, you know, even for the
performance royalties, you know,

675
00:40:51,150 --> 00:40:53,550
like what Spotify gives to
artists, you know, you can you

676
00:40:53,550 --> 00:40:56,100
can bake that right in, you can
make in your roadie, you know,

677
00:40:56,100 --> 00:40:59,460
your road crew, whatever it
whatever you want, and have that

678
00:40:59,460 --> 00:41:04,680
in the splits. And I think that,
to me is, is where the future is

679
00:41:04,860 --> 00:41:06,930
so that everybody can get paid.

680
00:41:07,890 --> 00:41:10,050
Sam Mean: Yeah, even even the
drummer gets a cut in that

681
00:41:10,050 --> 00:41:13,980
situation, which is under the
burden.

682
00:41:15,390 --> 00:41:18,390
But none of that's, that's yet
so we don't have that yet. But

683
00:41:18,390 --> 00:41:20,490
it's that's been in the
conversation since day one.

684
00:41:20,490 --> 00:41:22,950
Because that's really what we're
trying to do is not we don't

685
00:41:22,950 --> 00:41:26,430
want to perpetuate any of the
existing problems and have been

686
00:41:26,430 --> 00:41:33,150
music industry for this time.
But that we just want to make

687
00:41:33,150 --> 00:41:35,370
sure we do it right. So that
it's it's seamless, that was the

688
00:41:35,370 --> 00:41:37,890
main thing going into this
sense, it was a little bit

689
00:41:37,890 --> 00:41:41,160
difficult to use the an alpha
version of wave Lake, and it was

690
00:41:41,580 --> 00:41:44,940
a little confusing, and it did
sort of, in some ways, put

691
00:41:44,940 --> 00:41:49,800
things behind a wall, on this
new version, everything. We're

692
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:51,570
just trying to make sure that
every decision and every

693
00:41:51,570 --> 00:41:53,640
information that comes
implementation that comes into

694
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:57,570
it, is coming from an angle
that's going to actually help

695
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,180
down the road and not just
continue to perpetuate these

696
00:42:00,180 --> 00:42:01,230
stupid things that we see.

697
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:03,930
Adam Curry: Actually, I mean,
you know, what we've been doing

698
00:42:03,930 --> 00:42:07,620
is we've been we have an API, we
can help people create splits,

699
00:42:07,620 --> 00:42:10,110
you know, that we maintain if
it's not on the feed? Yeah, but

700
00:42:10,110 --> 00:42:13,860
ultimately, you want that to be
in the feed. How are you guys

701
00:42:13,860 --> 00:42:19,110
taking a percentage of, of of
every every boost, zap, etc?

702
00:42:19,110 --> 00:42:19,800
That comes in?

703
00:42:20,490 --> 00:42:22,470
Sam Mean: Yeah, right now we're
taking a percentage, and we're,

704
00:42:22,500 --> 00:42:26,460
I mean, everything's outside of
that everything's free. But at

705
00:42:26,460 --> 00:42:29,250
some point in time, we're gonna
have to have some kind of

706
00:42:29,250 --> 00:42:33,570
hosting fee. We're juggling how
and how we're gonna do that

707
00:42:33,570 --> 00:42:36,600
exactly. If that ends up being
like a percentage as well. Or if

708
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,090
it's a flat rate, we're trying
to figure out technically how to

709
00:42:39,090 --> 00:42:43,170
do that on a scalable model. But
I like I mean, I really liked

710
00:42:43,170 --> 00:42:45,990
the percentage model. I work in
the band merchandise business,

711
00:42:45,990 --> 00:42:48,180
and that's how I do everything.
I don't charge. I've been doing

712
00:42:48,180 --> 00:42:50,340
that for 15 years. I don't
charge anybody for anything

713
00:42:50,340 --> 00:42:52,830
unless something sells so I'd
like to continue doing something

714
00:42:52,830 --> 00:42:55,830
like that because it's worked
for me for a long time. But

715
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,970
technic technically you have to
there's some hurdles there. And

716
00:42:59,970 --> 00:43:02,700
I think you and I are a lot of
like we're we're maybe not like

717
00:43:02,700 --> 00:43:08,760
the most technical people so
sometimes really great ideas. We

718
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:10,620
can we can I know we can. We can

719
00:43:10,620 --> 00:43:14,400
Adam Curry: dream it up. We can.
We can break dream big. We can

720
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:14,640
dream

721
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,010
Sam Mean: and cool thing. Yeah,
you gotta have a good partner

722
00:43:17,010 --> 00:43:19,830
Michael always says just keep
dreaming big cuz like, you know,

723
00:43:19,830 --> 00:43:20,610
that's the fun part.

724
00:43:21,150 --> 00:43:24,600
Dave Jones: I don't think people
I don't I'm not sure people have

725
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:28,560
fully realized yet the power of
what Alex created when he

726
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:33,510
created the medium tag for for
the podcast feed. Yeah. Because

727
00:43:33,930 --> 00:43:40,200
it like this enables music has
never had in the digital world.

728
00:43:40,260 --> 00:43:45,540
In the digital world music has
never had a delivery protocol or

729
00:43:45,540 --> 00:43:51,150
delivery mechanism. That is that
is open. I mean, everything has

730
00:43:51,150 --> 00:43:54,960
been proprietary since day one.
I mean, there's been no open

731
00:43:54,960 --> 00:44:03,540
protocol for music delivery. So
the the just simply tagging the

732
00:44:03,540 --> 00:44:10,980
podcast feed as medium music a
lot instantly allows you to have

733
00:44:11,460 --> 00:44:15,420
a music delivery service that
just piggybacks on top of the

734
00:44:15,420 --> 00:44:20,160
existing podcast infrastructure,
which is already built out. I

735
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:24,960
think the you know, in one thing
that does is it puts it

736
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:29,760
decentralizes A decent realizes
all of the a lot of the costs,

737
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:33,120
and maybe not all of them. I was
reading this article. Today it

738
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:37,320
was this from in BW or the music
business worldwide. And it said

739
00:44:37,980 --> 00:44:41,550
there are 67 million audio
tracks sitting on music

740
00:44:41,550 --> 00:44:46,890
streaming services today that in
the 2020, the 22 calendar year

741
00:44:46,890 --> 00:44:51,540
attracted 10 or fewer streams a
piece. That's 67 minutes. See,

742
00:44:51,810 --> 00:44:55,350
that's 42% of the entire
catalogue of tracks available on

743
00:44:55,350 --> 00:44:59,520
streaming had less than 10
streams in the whole year. Right

744
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:04,170
Somebody but but these guys like
Spotify, they still have to pay

745
00:45:04,410 --> 00:45:06,960
for all of the hosting it did.
It reminded me of this when you

746
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:12,210
talked about a hosting fee. Sam
in like, in this article goes on

747
00:45:12,210 --> 00:45:16,530
to show that Spotify is paying a
minimum. They don't know, exact

748
00:45:16,530 --> 00:45:19,830
figures. But the minimum amount
Spotify is paying to Google for

749
00:45:19,830 --> 00:45:26,250
Cloud Storage is $150 million a
year to store your music which

750
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:28,680
of which 42% is not even,

751
00:45:29,130 --> 00:45:31,500
Adam Curry: not even used. And
that's why they got such a chip

752
00:45:31,500 --> 00:45:32,940
on their shoulder about it all.

753
00:45:33,060 --> 00:45:34,020
Dave Jones: Yeah, be pissed.

754
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:38,400
Adam Curry: You should shut up
musician.

755
00:45:39,180 --> 00:45:40,650
Michael Rhee: Well, I mean,
there's interest, there's this

756
00:45:40,650 --> 00:45:44,820
like this all started off free,
right. Also a free and open

757
00:45:44,820 --> 00:45:48,030
insert terms of music streaming.
So there were mp3 That was just

758
00:45:48,030 --> 00:45:51,630
an open standard file format.
And then there was Napster. And

759
00:45:51,630 --> 00:45:55,620
it was really easy to like, find
people's libraries share music,

760
00:45:55,620 --> 00:45:58,590
all that. Obviously, that system
wasn't great for artists,

761
00:45:58,590 --> 00:46:02,610
because people were basically
just sharing music for free

762
00:46:02,610 --> 00:46:03,090
without

763
00:46:03,569 --> 00:46:05,879
Adam Curry: paying for it.
Although although if you look at

764
00:46:05,879 --> 00:46:09,539
the numbers, and I remember them
well, it turned out that Napster

765
00:46:09,539 --> 00:46:11,819
actually was quite a boon for
the music industry, because

766
00:46:11,819 --> 00:46:15,209
people would go out and buy
stuff. And I believe Spotify

767
00:46:15,209 --> 00:46:18,299
initially was a peer a peer to
peer sharing protocol.

768
00:46:19,740 --> 00:46:23,100
Michael Rhee: Yeah, I remember
that. But yeah, I mean, things

769
00:46:23,100 --> 00:46:27,240
just kind of went behind, we
kind of fit we kind of went one

770
00:46:27,240 --> 00:46:29,790
direction, you know, having
everything open and free. And

771
00:46:29,790 --> 00:46:32,820
and now we've swung like so far
in the other direction where

772
00:46:32,820 --> 00:46:33,930
everything's paywall?

773
00:46:34,530 --> 00:46:36,930
Adam Curry: Well, not just that,
but the record companies, the

774
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:42,180
labels themselves own own most
of Spotify. And they and the way

775
00:46:42,180 --> 00:46:45,480
the contracts are written, you
know, they can just keep raising

776
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,480
the rates on Spotify, whenever
however they want. Well, not

777
00:46:48,510 --> 00:46:52,620
whenever, but the contract
duration is so short, the

778
00:46:52,620 --> 00:46:55,710
Spotify really has no way to
ever become profitable.

779
00:46:58,140 --> 00:47:00,150
Sam Mean: I just got to Spotify
for artists, email, guys, I

780
00:47:00,150 --> 00:47:04,800
think there was something. So
yeah, I mean, I think there's a

781
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:07,230
solution for this too, which
does the same thing, although

782
00:47:07,230 --> 00:47:09,630
it's one another one of those
bigger ideas. But I mean, I've

783
00:47:09,630 --> 00:47:13,470
always wanted to see some way to
go back to that file sharing

784
00:47:13,890 --> 00:47:16,800
peer to peer file sharing
system, but now incorporate

785
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:18,930
something with, you know,
lightning so that it can

786
00:47:18,930 --> 00:47:21,420
potentially fix that problem.
How that happens? I don't know.

787
00:47:21,420 --> 00:47:24,300
But it seems possible. And I
definitely see more and more

788
00:47:24,300 --> 00:47:27,660
people talking about that,
especially around noster

789
00:47:28,140 --> 00:47:31,260
conversations. And in MIPS,
they're I think there's at least

790
00:47:31,260 --> 00:47:35,250
two nips right now being
introduced that are sort of

791
00:47:35,250 --> 00:47:38,670
pitching the political
filesharing idea. So as that

792
00:47:38,670 --> 00:47:40,980
could potentially be something
that makes the interface that

793
00:47:42,090 --> 00:47:44,460
you can sort of integrate and
play nice. And maybe there's a

794
00:47:44,460 --> 00:47:45,330
way to see that happen.

795
00:47:45,720 --> 00:47:49,110
Dave Jones: We've been down the
noster guys have stars in their

796
00:47:49,110 --> 00:47:55,140
eyes, we've been down that road
with IPFS. It's not. It's not

797
00:47:55,140 --> 00:47:57,690
ready for primetime. I mean, not
even close now.

798
00:47:57,720 --> 00:48:00,060
Sam Mean: Not even not even
close. I'm just hopeful for the

799
00:48:00,060 --> 00:48:02,880
future. That's something like
that could come down the road.

800
00:48:04,140 --> 00:48:08,070
Dave Jones: What is your typical
day? But what is the typical

801
00:48:08,070 --> 00:48:12,990
wave Lake? If there is one? What
is the typical wave like artists

802
00:48:13,410 --> 00:48:16,020
look like when they when they
onboard to wave like, what?

803
00:48:16,710 --> 00:48:20,190
Where are they coming from? What
are they? Are they? Are they? Do

804
00:48:20,190 --> 00:48:26,040
they already have a you know, a
successful thing going? Or is

805
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,490
this? Are these new people that
are just looking to sort of

806
00:48:29,490 --> 00:48:33,390
publish their first works? What
does this look like? Typically?

807
00:48:35,070 --> 00:48:37,740
Sam Mean: It's really cool.
We've seen a wide variety

808
00:48:37,740 --> 00:48:40,980
actually, now it's starting to
expand quite a bit. I think we

809
00:48:40,980 --> 00:48:46,710
have over 150 artists on there
now. You know, we are seeing a

810
00:48:46,710 --> 00:48:49,560
ton of music coming in from
Africa, we're seeing a lot of

811
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:53,040
Bandcamp people. Eric, you
mentioned tone record, and now

812
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:57,510
he's the listener. Tone record
is awesome. Love that dude. You

813
00:48:57,510 --> 00:49:02,820
know, he uploaded 125 records, I
think releases is pretty cool.

814
00:49:03,750 --> 00:49:06,300
But we're seeing a lot. I mean,
there's, there's like a whole we

815
00:49:06,300 --> 00:49:08,190
kind of joke around about it,
because there's like a whole

816
00:49:08,190 --> 00:49:10,920
Bitcoin genre of music. I think
that was the first stuff that

817
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:15,030
came on. And a lot of the value
for value. People came on, you

818
00:49:15,030 --> 00:49:17,550
know, that was like the first
wave. And then it just started

819
00:49:17,550 --> 00:49:19,830
to catch a little bit of
traction. So now we're getting

820
00:49:19,830 --> 00:49:24,300
people that you know, we're
seeing like bedroom projects,

821
00:49:24,330 --> 00:49:26,880
we're seeing some projects that
have been like in the closet,

822
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:30,870
like, Oh, I did this back in the
90s I never released it or at

823
00:49:30,870 --> 00:49:33,780
least locally. But this is
really fun. I want to try it

824
00:49:33,780 --> 00:49:35,880
out. So I'm uploading this
project, you know, from like,

825
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:38,610
1998 or something, you know, and
you're discovering like cool

826
00:49:38,610 --> 00:49:39,120
music

827
00:49:39,180 --> 00:49:46,320
Adam Curry: in 2006. We started
the podsafe Music Network and

828
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:51,030
the podsafe Music Network. The
idea was you know, if you own

829
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:54,480
your music and you own all the
all the you know, you haven't

830
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,840
given your rights away or you
haven't you're not ASCAP BMI or

831
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:01,650
whatever, you've solved all of
that. And then you could put

832
00:50:01,650 --> 00:50:05,040
your music up on the podsafe
Music Network. And when a

833
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:08,970
podcast plays as podcasters,
they register they go in, they

834
00:50:08,970 --> 00:50:12,660
could download your stuff played
on their podcast. And the

835
00:50:12,720 --> 00:50:16,320
agreement was that as part of
the license, because we wrote a

836
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:19,980
podsafe music license, which is
very simple. When you play it on

837
00:50:19,980 --> 00:50:22,980
your podcast, you have to credit
that in the show notes and

838
00:50:22,980 --> 00:50:26,190
report back into the podsafe
Music Network. What was

839
00:50:26,220 --> 00:50:31,980
interesting, is we got a quite a
quite a large number of artists

840
00:50:31,980 --> 00:50:35,940
from the 70s song from the 60s
who had either That's awesome.

841
00:50:35,970 --> 00:50:38,760
Yeah, the stuff had come back to
them, but they owned it all. And

842
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:42,570
they were actually putting their
music up. And I expect you'll

843
00:50:42,570 --> 00:50:43,680
see that as well.

844
00:50:44,670 --> 00:50:46,350
Michael Rhee: Yeah, I mean, you
were mentioning it earlier,

845
00:50:46,620 --> 00:50:52,590
about podcasts, about music and,
you know, or sorry, being able

846
00:50:52,590 --> 00:50:55,470
to put music in a podcast. Yeah,
all the hurdles you have to jump

847
00:50:55,470 --> 00:50:58,350
through to do that are hoops you
have to jump through. One of the

848
00:50:58,350 --> 00:51:01,530
things that I feel like has been
lacking for so long, and

849
00:51:01,530 --> 00:51:05,130
podcasting has been around
forever. I can't name a single

850
00:51:05,130 --> 00:51:10,350
like podcast about music where
they maybe analyze albums, or I

851
00:51:10,350 --> 00:51:15,720
mean, there are some but none
that can really dive into music,

852
00:51:15,750 --> 00:51:19,500
like pull out snippets, or play
whole songs or albums and

853
00:51:19,500 --> 00:51:23,910
analyze them, you know, in like
a documentary style. I feel like

854
00:51:23,910 --> 00:51:28,350
there aren't really any podcasts
like that, because of how

855
00:51:28,350 --> 00:51:31,890
difficult all of the licensing
and royalties rights are

856
00:51:31,950 --> 00:51:34,950
Adam Curry: correct. And in
fact, in some of these

857
00:51:34,950 --> 00:51:38,340
licensing, in many of the
streaming licenses, you can't

858
00:51:38,340 --> 00:51:41,580
even have three songs back to
back of the same artists you Oh,

859
00:51:41,580 --> 00:51:46,440
no, no, that's that's verboten.
But I yeah, I still talk to guys

860
00:51:46,710 --> 00:51:48,540
who come from the from the
industry in the show, it's

861
00:51:48,540 --> 00:51:51,690
broken, is completely broken.
All of its broken. And this is,

862
00:51:51,720 --> 00:51:55,410
this is really exciting. And
when you talk about having music

863
00:51:55,410 --> 00:51:59,760
and a podcast, you know, what,
what my vision is, maybe through

864
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:02,430
something we call the remote
item tag, or, you know, some

865
00:52:02,430 --> 00:52:06,300
other mechanism is when, you
know, besides me just being able

866
00:52:06,300 --> 00:52:11,010
to put than artists in a in a
value block split, if I play a

867
00:52:11,010 --> 00:52:14,220
song, and you know, so here's
three minutes of this song, I

868
00:52:14,220 --> 00:52:18,360
want the value block of that
song with all its splits to take

869
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:22,710
precedence over mine. And so
then whatever's coming in, at

870
00:52:22,710 --> 00:52:24,900
that moment, when someone is
listening to that song, I want

871
00:52:24,900 --> 00:52:27,600
it to go to the artists maybe,
you know, I keep a few a few

872
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:31,320
points, you know, for for doing
it. But I mean, these are all

873
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:35,160
things that are within our
grasp, but only Dave Jones would

874
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:39,030
hurry up and build it. This is
the this.

875
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:45,450
Dave Jones: Like, we have, we
have this proposal for open for

876
00:52:45,450 --> 00:52:48,750
remote items. So we can you
know, you can share play lists,

877
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:52,560
like it's ready. Here's what I
want to get into. Because we you

878
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:55,140
know, I had spoken with you guys
once before, a couple months

879
00:52:55,140 --> 00:52:58,800
ago, maybe three months ago, I
don't remember. And y'all, you

880
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:03,750
had said some stuff that really
was really important and eye

881
00:53:03,750 --> 00:53:09,600
opening to me about what you
wanted to learn. Because you're

882
00:53:09,630 --> 00:53:12,870
I think you're really, from what
I gathered in our discussion,

883
00:53:12,870 --> 00:53:16,200
you were really focused on the
quality of the experience for

884
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:20,610
the listener. And so rather than
just rather than just throwing a

885
00:53:20,610 --> 00:53:24,150
bunch of feeds out there with
music in it, and letting it just

886
00:53:24,150 --> 00:53:27,990
roll into podcast apps, which
the current pod it, when you

887
00:53:27,990 --> 00:53:31,920
listen to a podcast, the app is
not set up to handle that in the

888
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:37,500
proper way for music. But what
what are your because we have so

889
00:53:37,500 --> 00:53:41,550
many app developers listening?
What is your vision for what a

890
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:46,320
proper music experience in a
podcast app looks like? Or just

891
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:50,010
not even forget the idea of a
podcast app? What is the proper

892
00:53:50,010 --> 00:53:54,480
music experience from the that
y'all would like to see you like

893
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:55,590
on a mobile device?

894
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:02,820
Michael Rhee: Yeah, I mean, I
think at a baseline, everyone

895
00:54:02,850 --> 00:54:09,030
knows what a streaming music app
should feel like, how it looks,

896
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:12,510
how you can find tracks, I can
find artists, how things are

897
00:54:12,510 --> 00:54:16,380
organized. The responsiveness of
it, you know, when you press

898
00:54:16,380 --> 00:54:20,340
play, music starts playing
within a couple seconds at the

899
00:54:20,850 --> 00:54:25,440
longest. So I think with those
expectations that people are

900
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:30,120
just familiar with and used to,
I think, at a baseline that has

901
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:33,120
to do all that, well. It's got
to look good, it's got to feel

902
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:37,200
good. And then on top of that,
you know, we have all of these

903
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:41,610
payment possibilities. Now, for
a listener to be able to not

904
00:54:41,610 --> 00:54:47,250
only interact with an artist
directly via Bitcoin, but then

905
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:50,130
we can build things on top of
that as well in terms of, you

906
00:54:50,130 --> 00:54:54,420
know, message interactions. You
know, we're having things like

907
00:54:54,420 --> 00:54:58,800
badges that listeners can earn
and, you know, those badges

908
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:02,310
could be purely Like superficial
and aesthetic, or those badges

909
00:55:02,310 --> 00:55:07,350
could actually mean something in
terms of unlocking some kind of

910
00:55:07,350 --> 00:55:12,420
exclusive access to particular
artists work or, you know, extra

911
00:55:12,420 --> 00:55:15,840
work. Yes, Sam, I don't know,
you got other thoughts on this?

912
00:55:16,470 --> 00:55:18,570
Sam Mean: I mean, yeah, I just I
would like to see it be more of

913
00:55:18,570 --> 00:55:21,690
a direct connect between the fan
and the artist, because that's

914
00:55:21,690 --> 00:55:24,810
really the most important part,
like, people listen to music,

915
00:55:24,810 --> 00:55:27,540
because it means a lot to them.
And they want to support

916
00:55:27,750 --> 00:55:30,330
artists, because if they support
the artists, and artists can

917
00:55:30,330 --> 00:55:33,750
keep doing what they love. And
it's becoming increasingly

918
00:55:33,750 --> 00:55:35,820
harder. It's always been
difficult, but it's becoming

919
00:55:35,820 --> 00:55:39,840
increasingly harder today to
make any money as an artist,

920
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:42,780
because I mean, it's bad enough
that you're making scraps from

921
00:55:43,260 --> 00:55:46,110
Spotify, and Apple Music and all
that shit. But you're also

922
00:55:46,530 --> 00:55:49,050
having a tough time touring,
you're having a tough time

923
00:55:49,170 --> 00:55:51,360
really doing anything, you're
having to do things like get on

924
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:55,380
Patreon, and, like, feel the
pressure to come up with all

925
00:55:55,380 --> 00:55:58,050
this content, just to be able
to, like meet the demand of your

926
00:55:58,050 --> 00:56:01,500
subscribers. And it's just not a
good situation. You know, like I

927
00:56:01,500 --> 00:56:03,900
work in the merch business,
that's probably the easiest way

928
00:56:03,900 --> 00:56:06,150
to do it. But that's even still
a pain in the ass. And it sucks

929
00:56:06,150 --> 00:56:09,390
for people, even sometimes to
feel like like, I have to

930
00:56:09,390 --> 00:56:12,690
constantly be shilling my T
shirts just so I can like eat or

931
00:56:12,690 --> 00:56:15,750
like buy a ticket gas to get to,
you know, to my show in San

932
00:56:15,750 --> 00:56:19,830
Diego or whatever. So yeah, I
want to, I want to see a future

933
00:56:20,100 --> 00:56:23,280
player or a lot of players,
hopefully that just, you know,

934
00:56:23,310 --> 00:56:26,070
maybe it's coming to genre
specific or cure people are

935
00:56:26,070 --> 00:56:28,500
going to players because they're
curated in a specific way that

936
00:56:28,500 --> 00:56:32,280
they, they love. But then once
they get there, they have a way

937
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:36,480
to interact through, you know,
life savings chats, you know,

938
00:56:36,510 --> 00:56:41,280
basic social stuff. And like
Michael said, you're able to

939
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:44,310
still have that Patreon style
experience by being a supporter,

940
00:56:44,310 --> 00:56:46,860
and maybe the more you support
somebody, the more you get. But

941
00:56:47,010 --> 00:56:51,030
on the artist side, they're not
having to churn out content in

942
00:56:51,030 --> 00:56:54,210
order to maintain those, in
order to maintain that support,

943
00:56:54,240 --> 00:56:57,540
Adam Curry: it won't come as a
surprise, but I'm not a fan of

944
00:56:57,540 --> 00:57:02,370
locking stuff away for premium
access. I mean, that's just my,

945
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:04,620
my preference has never been
that way. And I've done value

946
00:57:04,620 --> 00:57:09,660
for value effectively for over
15 years very successfully. When

947
00:57:09,660 --> 00:57:12,030
I look at all the elements we
have, and by the way, we have to

948
00:57:12,030 --> 00:57:15,090
mention again, the music side
project from from Steven B,

949
00:57:15,090 --> 00:57:18,390
because it really is a good
start into this. But when you

950
00:57:18,390 --> 00:57:23,850
see we've added a third element
into value for value in the

951
00:57:23,850 --> 00:57:28,230
value block, which is auto, it
hasn't really been implemented.

952
00:57:28,230 --> 00:57:30,600
Or you've I don't know if you've
been approved yet. But auto

953
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:36,360
means the app will allow you to
set a subscription type level

954
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:41,040
payment. So it could be anything
I guess, you know, week, day,

955
00:57:41,070 --> 00:57:46,800
month, or when a new track drops
or whatever the lit stuff, if an

956
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:49,860
artist has the capability to go
live like we're doing and that

957
00:57:49,860 --> 00:57:53,520
is that's where a lot of value
comes in it really that's where

958
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:56,310
people get excited, you don't
need to be playing, you can just

959
00:57:56,310 --> 00:57:59,130
be talking, you know, they can
it can be without video with

960
00:57:59,130 --> 00:58:03,360
video, you have all those
elements, including now this

961
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:06,120
chat, which can be the chat for
the artists, which is just

962
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:10,200
there. And you know, as we know,
it links to nostril. So there's

963
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:13,710
all these all these different
elements that just need to be

964
00:58:13,710 --> 00:58:20,010
molded into an experience. And
what I identify is, when I see

965
00:58:20,700 --> 00:58:24,240
Steven be creating music side
project, you know, before even

966
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:27,660
anything is the content is it's
just barely coming. You know,

967
00:58:27,660 --> 00:58:29,910
it's not, it's not like the
feeds are automatically

968
00:58:29,910 --> 00:58:34,320
submitted to the index. And you
explain perfectly why. But then

969
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:37,650
I also see Joe Martin who just
went, Hey, I'm just gonna, this

970
00:58:37,650 --> 00:58:40,740
fountain thing is kind of
working and, and he's blown away

971
00:58:40,740 --> 00:58:44,700
by the amount of value he's
receiving over any of the other

972
00:58:44,700 --> 00:58:50,580
platforms. So it feels like
we're so it's so there's a lot

973
00:58:50,580 --> 00:58:54,630
of pent up energy. And once we
hit that, whatever that that is,

974
00:58:54,630 --> 00:58:58,170
and I don't know, you know, it's
going to be a combination of, of

975
00:58:58,230 --> 00:59:03,300
artists or artists, and how they
already communicate with their,

976
00:59:03,930 --> 00:59:07,230
with their, with their audience
or their base. And some

977
00:59:07,230 --> 00:59:09,900
technology it's going to happen,
it's probably been in a

978
00:59:09,900 --> 00:59:12,870
surprising way. You know, I was
already blown away by Joe

979
00:59:12,870 --> 00:59:15,720
Martin. And you know, and what,
what he sees as the fountain

980
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:19,320
platform, which of course is
much broader with other apps, I

981
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:21,780
think you're going to be
surprised as long as we can keep

982
00:59:21,780 --> 00:59:25,140
implementing these things and
someone is showing the way,

983
00:59:25,500 --> 00:59:29,220
because you need that you need
an artist to actually do it and

984
00:59:29,580 --> 00:59:33,720
run with scissors, as we say, to
get something going. I think I

985
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:36,000
think it'll just there'll be a
flood of the show. Yeah.

986
00:59:36,180 --> 00:59:38,130
Sam Mean: Oh, yeah, that's gonna
happen. I mean, that's, that's

987
00:59:38,130 --> 00:59:41,310
why that's why wavelike exists.
You know, as Mike was kind of

988
00:59:41,310 --> 00:59:44,250
explaining how I didn't know how
to do anything, but I could

989
00:59:44,250 --> 00:59:49,170
figure out through breeze and
Sphinx and RSS feed a couple

990
00:59:49,170 --> 00:59:52,260
years ago that's like, oh, I can
sort of create streaming money

991
00:59:52,260 --> 00:59:55,290
on this with my music through
these podcast players. And it's

992
00:59:55,290 --> 00:59:58,830
super rad and I but I don't know
how to build this in for an

993
00:59:58,830 --> 01:00:00,960
experience that's going to work
for The artists are like, you

994
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:05,610
know, hey, he's out there. And
now we have wave lake. And so

995
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:09,300
that's cool. But you need people
now, like, shout out to Joe

996
01:00:09,300 --> 01:00:11,880
Martin Joe Martin rules, too,
because you need these

997
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:14,910
advocates, we're gonna need
these bridge advocate bands that

998
01:00:14,910 --> 01:00:19,170
are like an artist or, you know,
maybe just heard about Bitcoin

999
01:00:19,170 --> 01:00:22,290
on one leg and the bid on the
door and Bitcoin. They're trying

1000
01:00:22,290 --> 01:00:25,500
to make money, they're feeling
the pain, and they discover this

1001
01:00:25,500 --> 01:00:28,980
stuff, and they start talking
about it. And like, every great

1002
01:00:28,980 --> 01:00:32,010
thing, through word of mouth,
this is going to all this stuff

1003
01:00:32,010 --> 01:00:34,950
is going to happen. Another cool
thing too, I want to, I want to

1004
01:00:34,980 --> 01:00:36,600
mention because I was just
talking about this the other

1005
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:40,470
day, like, I'm super excited for
when people start communicating

1006
01:00:40,500 --> 01:00:43,800
in between albums, cycles, even
just like, hey, I'm working on

1007
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:47,130
records, these are my demos with
you guys think, and can monetize

1008
01:00:47,130 --> 01:00:50,850
that process to get you through
from one album cycle to another

1009
01:00:50,850 --> 01:00:53,550
would typically that's been a
really kind of a dry period for

1010
01:00:53,550 --> 01:00:55,440
artists. Yeah, that's,

1011
01:00:55,470 --> 01:00:57,480
Dave Jones: that's the beautiful
thing about podcasting is you

1012
01:00:57,480 --> 01:01:01,260
have, you know, and why that why
it makes so much sense to layer

1013
01:01:01,470 --> 01:01:06,600
music distribution on to the
podcasting sort of guts, is

1014
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:09,150
because the main podcasters are
used to that all the time

1015
01:01:09,150 --> 01:01:13,830
dropping, you know, it's so
effortless to drop an extra

1016
01:01:13,830 --> 01:01:18,510
content in your feed. Like it's
not a it's not a huge lift. And

1017
01:01:18,510 --> 01:01:23,040
so, you know, you have this sort
of like a quick feedback loop

1018
01:01:23,220 --> 01:01:28,500
with your, with your listeners.
I think music, you know, the

1019
01:01:28,500 --> 01:01:33,090
more the mute, the more the
technology gets out of the way,

1020
01:01:33,780 --> 01:01:41,340
I think you get better music.
Yeah, I think there's a lot of I

1021
01:01:41,340 --> 01:01:45,390
guess the beauty of a thing like
Spotify or Apple Music, is you

1022
01:01:45,390 --> 01:01:49,530
just tap the app, and you're
there. You don't have there's

1023
01:01:49,530 --> 01:01:52,500
not there's not complexity. And
so that's where we need to get

1024
01:01:52,500 --> 01:01:58,050
to on the open. The open
distribution side, is we need to

1025
01:01:58,050 --> 01:02:01,590
get to that same level where
it's, you know, somebody can,

1026
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:06,630
where I can say, you know, what
I can tell one of my kids or, or

1027
01:02:06,630 --> 01:02:09,870
one of my friends, you know,
hey, install this, install this

1028
01:02:09,870 --> 01:02:14,640
app. And you and they're all
your mute, you know, like,

1029
01:02:14,670 --> 01:02:17,310
there's a whole bunch of music
for you to find this brand new.

1030
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:24,060
Because my kids are in, they're
very involved in the local music

1031
01:02:24,060 --> 01:02:26,220
scene, they both have bands and
stuff like that, and they both

1032
01:02:26,220 --> 01:02:30,450
play. And so they're all they're
already in sort of in the indie

1033
01:02:30,450 --> 01:02:36,270
music culture. And if if there
was an an app, where it was

1034
01:02:36,270 --> 01:02:41,730
literally as easy as a Spotify
or an Apple Music, but all the

1035
01:02:41,730 --> 01:02:46,110
stuff was from local
independent. So you know, self

1036
01:02:46,110 --> 01:02:52,530
sovereign art musicians, they,
they would absolutely flocked to

1037
01:02:52,530 --> 01:02:55,950
it. They would use it, they
would send boosts, they would do

1038
01:02:55,950 --> 01:03:01,860
all that. But the it can't be a
podcast app, quote, unquote. It

1039
01:03:01,860 --> 01:03:05,190
has it can use the podcast
infrastructure. But it has to be

1040
01:03:05,190 --> 01:03:09,240
a music app. And but you but the
I guess the good thing is you

1041
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:12,300
can take advantage of all the
things that podcasting does

1042
01:03:12,300 --> 01:03:16,230
well, like, you don't, it
doesn't have to be stream only,

1043
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:19,560
like one of the great things
about podcasts and podcast apps

1044
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:22,950
as they they already what they
want to do they want to download

1045
01:03:22,950 --> 01:03:26,370
the episode for you. They want
to download the tracks so that

1046
01:03:26,370 --> 01:03:29,460
you don't get dropped dropouts,
when you walk into a, you know,

1047
01:03:29,490 --> 01:03:32,760
an elevator or something. Like
there's a lot of those things

1048
01:03:32,790 --> 01:03:36,360
that they already have, you
know, the EQ, they have, you

1049
01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:38,790
know, complex audio processing,
and that kind of stuff in there

1050
01:03:38,790 --> 01:03:41,520
to make to make stuff sound
better. There's a lot of things

1051
01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:45,930
that they are really good at.
They can be, they can make the

1052
01:03:45,930 --> 01:03:48,150
experience even better than the
big apps.

1053
01:03:50,820 --> 01:03:53,280
Michael Rhee: Yeah, I think I
think that discovery element is

1054
01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:56,340
really important too. Because,
you know, with all the mega

1055
01:03:56,340 --> 01:04:01,200
streaming services, I don't
know. I'm sure everyone else

1056
01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:04,710
gets the same feeling that
they're being kind of herded

1057
01:04:04,740 --> 01:04:10,650
into the same 10 artists yet or
which way you try and turn your

1058
01:04:12,120 --> 01:04:14,370
Adam Curry: songs in Spotify
owns the rights to,

1059
01:04:15,029 --> 01:04:17,339
Michael Rhee: yeah, hey, it all
worked out in the end, because

1060
01:04:17,339 --> 01:04:21,119
the labels on Spotify and
Spotify will funnel people to

1061
01:04:21,119 --> 01:04:26,339
the labels work right. And so
and so I think what's really

1062
01:04:26,339 --> 01:04:30,509
exciting about sort of open
distribution and kind of

1063
01:04:30,509 --> 01:04:33,449
different clients being able to
curate content in different

1064
01:04:33,449 --> 01:04:37,709
ways, but all on the same kind
of foundational base layer of

1065
01:04:37,709 --> 01:04:43,139
source material. We have the
opportunity to create a diverse

1066
01:04:43,139 --> 01:04:46,919
experiences for different people
depending on what you like, if

1067
01:04:46,919 --> 01:04:49,349
you're interested in finding
something new becomes a little

1068
01:04:49,349 --> 01:04:54,389
bit less of a, you know, a
hunting expedition and more of

1069
01:04:54,389 --> 01:04:58,409
something that you can kind of
count on certain curators or

1070
01:04:58,409 --> 01:05:02,849
different sites to be able to do
I think that's, that could be a

1071
01:05:02,849 --> 01:05:07,139
really exciting time. But you
know, maybe a revival of music.

1072
01:05:08,369 --> 01:05:10,949
From what we've seen of the what
happened over the last decade.

1073
01:05:11,250 --> 01:05:13,500
Adam Curry: Also, I'd like to
remind us that, you know, I'm

1074
01:05:13,500 --> 01:05:17,220
not a kid anymore. I don't think
Dave can qualify. But you guys,

1075
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:21,510
but it's always amazing how
we'll go back to the days of

1076
01:05:21,510 --> 01:05:26,670
Napster and Limewire. And, you
know, I saw my daughter, that

1077
01:05:26,670 --> 01:05:29,580
she, she was looking for stuff,
or she heard about something,

1078
01:05:29,610 --> 01:05:32,970
and they would install the most
complicated things with really

1079
01:05:32,970 --> 01:05:36,810
no great player experience or
anything like that, just to be

1080
01:05:36,810 --> 01:05:40,080
able to, to get what everyone
else was talking about. You

1081
01:05:40,080 --> 01:05:44,850
know, it's like, sometimes we're
very good at overthinking what

1082
01:05:44,850 --> 01:05:49,710
the experience has to be. And,
and I think the content always

1083
01:05:49,710 --> 01:05:53,190
speaks for itself. And just like
with podcasting, you need to

1084
01:05:53,190 --> 01:05:56,070
have the artists themselves the
bands, they need to be saying,

1085
01:05:56,070 --> 01:06:00,210
Hey, check it out here. And
yeah, look, you're always your

1086
01:06:00,210 --> 01:06:03,570
own marketing, you know, you've
got a band, you've got it,

1087
01:06:03,570 --> 01:06:05,820
you've got a market, you've got
to you got to let people know

1088
01:06:05,820 --> 01:06:08,190
what you're doing. And if this
is a place where you can get

1089
01:06:08,190 --> 01:06:15,120
value back easily, we, I hope
everyone can get out of them. No

1090
01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:19,530
one is going to be Beyonce
anymore. Beyonce is Beyonce. You

1091
01:06:19,530 --> 01:06:23,460
know, it's just the percentage.
And the likelihood of that

1092
01:06:23,460 --> 01:06:27,090
happening is, is as likely as
anyone becoming the next Joe

1093
01:06:27,090 --> 01:06:31,410
Rogan. It just doesn't work that
way anymore. But you don't need

1094
01:06:31,410 --> 01:06:35,970
it. Because your community, your
1000 fans, your 2000 fans who

1095
01:06:35,970 --> 01:06:38,940
follow you who love your stuff,
they will support you, all you

1096
01:06:38,940 --> 01:06:41,910
got to do is learn how to ask
and have the mechanism right

1097
01:06:41,910 --> 01:06:45,210
there, which is what have the
boost button or the ZAP button

1098
01:06:45,210 --> 01:06:48,270
or whatever it is have it right
there. So it's easy for people

1099
01:06:48,270 --> 01:06:49,800
to hit and hit and go.

1100
01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:53,460
Sam Mean: Yeah, exactly. I mean,
it's like, it's like how touring

1101
01:06:53,490 --> 01:06:56,610
works, you know, like you,
there's bands that have managed

1102
01:06:56,610 --> 01:07:00,090
to have careers and survive. For
decades on being able to play

1103
01:07:00,090 --> 01:07:02,880
club shows around the country,
you know, it's like, we can go

1104
01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:08,820
out every spring and fall and
play 45 shows in and make a

1105
01:07:08,820 --> 01:07:12,900
living off of it. It's going to
be cool, when that the same

1106
01:07:12,900 --> 01:07:15,300
amount of people, you know, you
can take those 10,000 people or

1107
01:07:15,300 --> 01:07:18,270
8000 people and survive as an
artist instead of having to

1108
01:07:18,600 --> 01:07:21,150
dream big and become the next
Beyonce or some kind of mega

1109
01:07:21,150 --> 01:07:23,490
superstar. You're going to need
millions and millions and

1110
01:07:23,490 --> 01:07:26,070
millions of people. I mean, even
now on Spotify, it's hilarious.

1111
01:07:26,070 --> 01:07:28,650
Even with millions of streams,
you're still not making any

1112
01:07:28,650 --> 01:07:32,820
money. So yeah, this this is
just this gonna change

1113
01:07:32,820 --> 01:07:33,510
everything. Hopefully,

1114
01:07:33,540 --> 01:07:35,130
Adam Curry: I have a question
for you guys. This is probably

1115
01:07:35,130 --> 01:07:39,420
the hardest part, I would
presume. How do you vet what is

1116
01:07:39,570 --> 01:07:44,910
being uploaded? So that people
aren't uploading, you know,

1117
01:07:45,150 --> 01:07:48,150
Spotify had this problem, you
know, oh, here's a movie they

1118
01:07:48,150 --> 01:07:50,460
uploaded, you know, how do you
how do you vet all that?

1119
01:07:51,330 --> 01:07:53,580
Sam Mean: I mean, luckily,
because everyone else had this

1120
01:07:53,580 --> 01:07:55,710
problem before us. I mean, right
now, it's super easy, because

1121
01:07:55,710 --> 01:07:58,230
it's not things are not being
uploaded at a pace that we can't

1122
01:07:58,230 --> 01:08:06,300
just manage. But you know, there
are tools, like, you know, what

1123
01:08:06,300 --> 01:08:10,230
are they called, like, Michael
helping out here? Like, like,

1124
01:08:10,380 --> 01:08:16,890
Shazam? Yeah, like, it's just
recognizes? Yeah.

1125
01:08:18,060 --> 01:08:21,870
Michael Rhee: Yeah. But I think
verification is a big part of

1126
01:08:22,860 --> 01:08:27,450
not only ensuring that the
artist who owns material is the

1127
01:08:27,450 --> 01:08:32,100
one who's uploading it, but I
think also down the road, in

1128
01:08:32,100 --> 01:08:36,420
terms of making sure as a fan,
that my payment is going to the

1129
01:08:36,420 --> 01:08:39,840
correct individual, you know,
now we have keys and

1130
01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:43,800
cryptography and all that, to
help us verify that, you know,

1131
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:46,020
we're actually paying the person
who made the work. I think

1132
01:08:46,020 --> 01:08:48,660
that's a that was a big
possibility, too.

1133
01:08:49,020 --> 01:08:51,270
Sam Mean: That was one really
cool and inspiring thing that I

1134
01:08:51,270 --> 01:08:54,660
saw on there, in the very early
days of the nap of the master

1135
01:08:54,660 --> 01:08:58,830
bedroom was, you know, when I
first logged on, there were 10

1136
01:08:58,830 --> 01:09:03,480
Jack Dorsey's, probably. And
everyone was like, which one's

1137
01:09:03,480 --> 01:09:05,850
the right Jack Dorsey, and then
you're looking at follow list to

1138
01:09:05,850 --> 01:09:08,550
see who's okay. It's like, I
think maybe this person is

1139
01:09:08,550 --> 01:09:11,310
following this person, they
probably know, you know, but

1140
01:09:11,310 --> 01:09:15,300
then they fix that really click
with one of the new 57, which I

1141
01:09:15,300 --> 01:09:17,490
still think needs a lot of work.
That's not a perfect way to

1142
01:09:17,490 --> 01:09:20,220
verify people, but to be able to
use a domain easily for

1143
01:09:20,220 --> 01:09:23,790
verification. That was least
inspiring in the sense that it's

1144
01:09:23,790 --> 01:09:26,550
like, these problems seem like
they're huge, but you can do a

1145
01:09:26,550 --> 01:09:29,100
quick fix for the time being
until you can until you come up

1146
01:09:29,100 --> 01:09:31,560
with the ultimate solution
that's going to last

1147
01:09:31,590 --> 01:09:34,470
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah. And I
think that that's another good

1148
01:09:34,470 --> 01:09:38,100
thing about about podcasting is
It's decentralized but as

1149
01:09:38,100 --> 01:09:41,940
decentralized through it's
almost like activity Pub is It's

1150
01:09:41,940 --> 01:09:51,180
decentralized sort of towers of,
of control. So you have because

1151
01:09:51,210 --> 01:09:55,590
pure decentralization, I mean,
we all know pure, pure 100%

1152
01:09:55,590 --> 01:10:00,330
decentralized things is very,
very difficult. Like yeah, Like

1153
01:10:00,330 --> 01:10:03,690
monumentally difficult so much
that so many people have been

1154
01:10:03,690 --> 01:10:06,990
trying for years and years and
years, and it still has

1155
01:10:06,990 --> 01:10:09,810
drawbacks. I mean, you know,
I've been vocal about all the

1156
01:10:09,810 --> 01:10:14,580
drawbacks about noster that
bother me. But the thing about

1157
01:10:14,610 --> 01:10:19,140
the thing about podcasting is,
is that you have, you know,

1158
01:10:19,140 --> 01:10:23,550
hosting companies did, you have
a ton of them how all that, you

1159
01:10:23,550 --> 01:10:26,970
know, wave wave Lake is a
hosting company, you have all

1160
01:10:26,970 --> 01:10:30,600
these hosting companies. And so
you have a measure, sort of like

1161
01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:34,950
Mastodon, you have these, you
have lots of people, and it is

1162
01:10:34,950 --> 01:10:41,040
decentralized, but it's not so
decentralized, that there's too

1163
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:46,110
much pressure to get everything
right on, on the individual. So,

1164
01:10:46,110 --> 01:10:48,930
you know, the individuals are
sort of like proxied through

1165
01:10:48,930 --> 01:10:54,930
these points of control, which,
which makes it, it makes it

1166
01:10:54,930 --> 01:11:00,150
easier, it's sort of like a,
it's a compromise. That's, this

1167
01:11:00,150 --> 01:11:02,400
sort of ends up being good for
everybody. Because you're, you

1168
01:11:02,400 --> 01:11:07,710
know, when I know that I'm not
literally getting, you know, a

1169
01:11:07,710 --> 01:11:11,070
million feeds a day from all
over from every Tom, Dick and

1170
01:11:11,070 --> 01:11:15,150
Harry, you know, that exists,
like, so I'm getting fades from

1171
01:11:15,150 --> 01:11:19,050
wavelike. I'm getting them from
Buzzsprout. And so, I think that

1172
01:11:19,140 --> 01:11:22,860
it slows the pace down. And like
you said, it makes it where you

1173
01:11:22,860 --> 01:11:27,240
can have a little bit like, you
can have some sanity about this

1174
01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:31,170
thing and not have to feel like
you need to solve every problem

1175
01:11:31,170 --> 01:11:32,130
that exists.

1176
01:11:33,330 --> 01:11:35,700
Sam Mean: Yeah, that was, that
was some really good advice that

1177
01:11:35,700 --> 01:11:40,650
I got from from Roy breeze early
on, he was one of the people

1178
01:11:40,650 --> 01:11:43,440
that I talked to first about
this, just because breeze was

1179
01:11:43,440 --> 01:11:48,690
one of the first you know,
things bright, was able to plug

1180
01:11:48,690 --> 01:11:54,270
music into and stream stats over
over it. So. But in the end, the

1181
01:11:54,270 --> 01:11:57,000
early conversations with Roy was
like, you know, how do we do

1182
01:11:57,000 --> 01:11:59,670
this? How do I get someone to
build this? Like, what will you

1183
01:11:59,670 --> 01:12:04,380
put this in breeze? How do we
figure this out. And the biggest

1184
01:12:04,380 --> 01:12:06,840
thing back then was like, We got
to take these guys down, you

1185
01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:10,260
know, like Spotify and Apple
musics of the world. And he was

1186
01:12:10,260 --> 01:12:14,280
just like, Hey, dude, like,
chill out, you take them down,

1187
01:12:14,910 --> 01:12:16,950
you don't even take them,
they'll take themselves down

1188
01:12:16,950 --> 01:12:19,500
like this is the better model,
just all we got to do is just

1189
01:12:19,500 --> 01:12:21,810
keep working on the better
model. I mean, which is so true.

1190
01:12:21,810 --> 01:12:24,870
And I'm a Bitcoin, dude. So
like, I know that perfectly

1191
01:12:24,870 --> 01:12:28,230
well. If you just play the slow
game on these things, if it's a

1192
01:12:28,230 --> 01:12:30,720
better system, it's going to
work. And if we keep adapting to

1193
01:12:30,720 --> 01:12:34,770
these things, these these
technologies and make this

1194
01:12:34,770 --> 01:12:38,640
better system even better, and
everyone else is on, you know,

1195
01:12:39,120 --> 01:12:42,930
the slow moving train from the
prehistoric times, they're not

1196
01:12:42,930 --> 01:12:44,640
going to be able to keep up and
then by the time it comes

1197
01:12:44,640 --> 01:12:47,190
around, they're not going to hit
them. And that's, that's

1198
01:12:47,190 --> 01:12:50,430
probably the way this is going
to work out. Someone asked, we

1199
01:12:50,430 --> 01:12:54,780
were in Nashville, earlier this
week for a design center thing,

1200
01:12:54,780 --> 01:12:57,000
and someone asked, you know,
like, what we would think about

1201
01:12:57,000 --> 01:13:01,560
Spotify implementing value for
value or the Lightning Network?

1202
01:13:01,830 --> 01:13:04,800
That's not, it's just not going
to happen? No, it's not gonna

1203
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:07,590
happen. If they can't make
money. They can make money now

1204
01:13:07,590 --> 01:13:10,410
there's no way they can make
money. If they're being fair,

1205
01:13:10,440 --> 01:13:13,890
you know? So it just, it's just
not likely. It's not It's

1206
01:13:13,890 --> 01:13:16,320
incredibly unlikely for that to
happen. What's more likely is

1207
01:13:16,320 --> 01:13:20,700
we'll just create a better
system. In doing that, it'll

1208
01:13:20,700 --> 01:13:23,280
inspire other people to create
even cooler stuff and things

1209
01:13:23,280 --> 01:13:26,430
will just things will just
slowly go that way. You know, it

1210
01:13:26,430 --> 01:13:29,250
just might take some time. All
this stuff takes time. nostre is

1211
01:13:29,250 --> 01:13:32,040
going to take time Lightning
Lightning, it's we're five years

1212
01:13:32,040 --> 01:13:34,680
into lightning, it's still still
early. Oh,

1213
01:13:34,890 --> 01:13:39,210
Adam Curry: yes. Oh, yeah. This
it takes a lot of time. But when

1214
01:13:39,210 --> 01:13:44,310
I see the, what has happened
with value for value in in just

1215
01:13:44,430 --> 01:13:49,830
two years, even the biggest
detractors who've come around, I

1216
01:13:50,850 --> 01:13:54,900
mean, it Yeah, takes time. But
it is a logarithmic scale. It

1217
01:13:54,900 --> 01:13:57,780
goes up fast. At a certain
point, it just moves it really

1218
01:13:57,780 --> 01:13:58,320
moves.

1219
01:13:58,680 --> 01:13:59,670
Sam Mean: Yeah, slowly.

1220
01:14:01,140 --> 01:14:03,240
Michael Rhee: I think one of you
guys are saying like there's

1221
01:14:03,240 --> 01:14:06,690
pent up demand for these kinds
of products out there. And I

1222
01:14:06,690 --> 01:14:11,640
think, you know, the early
adopter crowd, who's understood

1223
01:14:11,640 --> 01:14:14,220
who understands value for value,
who understands what we're

1224
01:14:14,220 --> 01:14:19,440
trying to do a wave like, you
know, I just get the sense that

1225
01:14:19,500 --> 01:14:22,410
they've been waiting for
something like this to happen

1226
01:14:22,410 --> 01:14:27,780
for a while. And they get it and
I think it's just a matter of

1227
01:14:27,780 --> 01:14:30,750
time before you know other
people kind of

1228
01:14:31,350 --> 01:14:32,100
Sam Mean: follow along.

1229
01:14:33,810 --> 01:14:35,430
Adam Curry: Yep, they are gonna
have to do some work though.

1230
01:14:35,430 --> 01:14:38,910
Freedom doesn't come without
that extra step. That's that's

1231
01:14:38,940 --> 01:14:41,340
what it always boils down to.
And we see the people who are

1232
01:14:41,340 --> 01:14:44,880
successful with value for value
in podcasting, you know,

1233
01:14:44,880 --> 01:14:47,400
they've, they've taken that
extra step you got you got to

1234
01:14:47,400 --> 01:14:52,380
dive in. But one thing I know,
is the excitement of having, you

1235
01:14:52,380 --> 01:14:55,230
know, even if it's an Alby
wallet, the excitement of

1236
01:14:55,440 --> 01:14:58,680
putting something out there,
whatever it is, and seeing

1237
01:14:58,710 --> 01:15:03,090
Satoshis drip in while people
are actually listening or

1238
01:15:03,090 --> 01:15:05,880
enjoying on the other end, I
think there's nothing like it.

1239
01:15:07,170 --> 01:15:09,960
Michael Rhee: Yeah, that's
that's there's no comparable

1240
01:15:09,960 --> 01:15:13,440
experience to that. I was one of
the musicians we were talking to

1241
01:15:13,890 --> 01:15:16,830
a Nashville was was saying that
exact same thing where he was

1242
01:15:16,830 --> 01:15:20,130
saying, you know, if I put my
stuff up on a major streaming

1243
01:15:20,130 --> 01:15:27,060
site, I might see a check from
them for a few cents after it

1244
01:15:27,060 --> 01:15:31,410
was actually listened to, and
he's like, but on your side,

1245
01:15:31,530 --> 01:15:35,220
I'll get boosts I got boosts,
like the first day I had music

1246
01:15:35,250 --> 01:15:40,350
on the site. And that kind of,
especially for an artist who so

1247
01:15:40,350 --> 01:15:44,580
much of the work is sort of
inside your own head, or like

1248
01:15:44,580 --> 01:15:48,000
with your bandmates. And you're
sort of just like, you're trying

1249
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:50,820
to make the best thing possible.
But in the end, you have no idea

1250
01:15:50,820 --> 01:15:53,580
if anyone's gonna like it, you
love it, but you have no idea

1251
01:15:53,580 --> 01:15:56,760
what it's gonna be like when you
put it on the world. And so that

1252
01:15:56,940 --> 01:15:59,640
instantaneous feedback loop
where you can publish something

1253
01:15:59,640 --> 01:16:02,820
you've been working on and have
sort of put your heart and soul

1254
01:16:02,820 --> 01:16:06,750
into and to see that like,
returned, right when people hear

1255
01:16:06,750 --> 01:16:10,740
it. I think that's a that's a
huge game changer in terms of

1256
01:16:11,070 --> 01:16:14,490
motivating that person to like,
keep going, you know, you're

1257
01:16:14,490 --> 01:16:15,990
doing something right.

1258
01:16:16,920 --> 01:16:21,510
Adam Curry: Do you even see
streams created on Spotify in

1259
01:16:21,510 --> 01:16:24,330
real time? Or is that also an
end of month report?

1260
01:16:25,740 --> 01:16:29,550
Sam Mean: You can see like
through aggregates like TuneCore

1261
01:16:29,580 --> 01:16:32,130
district kid date, you can you
can definitely cannot see it in

1262
01:16:32,130 --> 01:16:35,850
real time. You can see it sort
of like maybe a 24 hour delay,

1263
01:16:35,850 --> 01:16:40,350
you can get estimate estimated
streams. But it's the there's no

1264
01:16:40,350 --> 01:16:44,160
depth to it. It doesn't feel you
know, you feel nothing from it.

1265
01:16:44,190 --> 01:16:46,470
It's hard to really feel
anything for the music business,

1266
01:16:46,470 --> 01:16:49,800
just like soul sucking
lightness, lifeless experience.

1267
01:16:49,830 --> 01:16:54,000
Overall. I've been doing it long
enough to know. But yeah, it's,

1268
01:16:54,630 --> 01:16:58,170
it's it is so it's it's the
thrill. I mean, it sounds so

1269
01:16:58,170 --> 01:17:01,410
cheesy, but it like it really is
just because it's like, oh,

1270
01:17:01,440 --> 01:17:04,590
you're, you know, I'm yeah, I'm
in my early 40s. I've been

1271
01:17:04,590 --> 01:17:09,330
making music since I was a kid.
And I'm, like, rejuvenated by

1272
01:17:09,330 --> 01:17:12,960
this, I want to make more music,
just so I can explain this.

1273
01:17:13,200 --> 01:17:15,480
Because like when you get, like
when you get you know, it's like

1274
01:17:15,510 --> 01:17:18,330
records that I made 10 years
ago, are getting boost and

1275
01:17:18,330 --> 01:17:20,190
getting comments, people are
discovering it for the first

1276
01:17:20,190 --> 01:17:24,000
time. When normally I know how
it goes, you make a record. And

1277
01:17:24,030 --> 01:17:26,970
if you know, unless you're
incredibly lucky, it kind of

1278
01:17:26,970 --> 01:17:30,300
just goes back on the pile. And
people come and come back to it

1279
01:17:30,300 --> 01:17:32,640
every once in awhile, but you
never get that feedback again,

1280
01:17:32,670 --> 01:17:35,250
you know, unless you do
something like go on tour, play

1281
01:17:35,250 --> 01:17:36,270
the songs do the whole.

1282
01:17:36,480 --> 01:17:40,290
Adam Curry: That's a good point.
I mean, I even see it was with

1283
01:17:40,290 --> 01:17:44,010
podcast episodes. You know,
people go back and they listened

1284
01:17:44,010 --> 01:17:48,450
they start some start at one
now, you know, but they people

1285
01:17:48,450 --> 01:17:51,450
will listen to all kinds of
older material and then still

1286
01:17:51,450 --> 01:17:54,450
send a booster gram or something
like that you see it? You know,

1287
01:17:54,450 --> 01:17:57,690
she's for a minute stream coming
in? Oh, yeah, it's phenomenal.

1288
01:17:57,720 --> 01:18:01,110
It's a wish everyone could could
witness this. I wish you could

1289
01:18:01,110 --> 01:18:04,470
have that feeling people.
Everybody needs to see like, get

1290
01:18:04,470 --> 01:18:09,390
the feeling. Got no, no, good.
No, go ahead, Dave, please. Oh,

1291
01:18:09,420 --> 01:18:11,790
Dave Jones: I was just gonna
say, Michael, you've got enough.

1292
01:18:12,120 --> 01:18:15,210
You've got enough coding
experience now with creating

1293
01:18:15,210 --> 01:18:20,100
podcast feeds and doing that
kind of thing. What? What do you

1294
01:18:20,100 --> 01:18:27,330
think? I'll see how don't want
to ask this. Do you see anything

1295
01:18:27,750 --> 01:18:33,450
missing? Or do you need? What do
you think music? As a platform

1296
01:18:33,450 --> 01:18:36,630
layered on top of of a podcast
distribution? What? What do you

1297
01:18:36,630 --> 01:18:40,050
think is? Is there anything
missing? Or is there a thing?

1298
01:18:40,080 --> 01:18:43,260
Are there things that you can
think of that you would love to

1299
01:18:43,260 --> 01:18:47,310
see done? But you don't know how
or you don't think they exist?

1300
01:18:48,750 --> 01:18:53,190
Michael Rhee: Yeah, I mean, I
can say, first of all, that you

1301
01:18:53,190 --> 01:18:58,290
guys have done a great job with
the spec. I'm not a spec guy. So

1302
01:18:58,320 --> 01:19:03,060
to be able to go to GitHub, and
just see it all laid out and see

1303
01:19:03,060 --> 01:19:06,810
the motivation and the rationale
behind all the decisions. That's

1304
01:19:06,810 --> 01:19:11,880
been incredibly useful and
valuable for me. As far as, you

1305
01:19:11,880 --> 01:19:17,370
know, the way that I guess the
way I think about using the

1306
01:19:17,370 --> 01:19:22,320
feed, and the two that Oh, spec
for music, the way I always

1307
01:19:22,380 --> 01:19:27,690
approach these kinds of things
is I don't want to create a

1308
01:19:27,690 --> 01:19:32,490
modification to a widely adopted
spec unless it's absolutely

1309
01:19:32,490 --> 01:19:36,960
necessary. Because if that many
people already have agreed upon

1310
01:19:36,990 --> 01:19:43,140
a certain template or a certain
description for these fields,

1311
01:19:43,680 --> 01:19:46,230
you know, you better have a dead
end. And this is I think, this

1312
01:19:46,230 --> 01:19:48,630
is an article I found through
you about like, you know,

1313
01:19:48,630 --> 01:19:51,540
standards on the internet. You
know, I think like, you better

1314
01:19:51,540 --> 01:19:55,260
have a damn good reason and
really need to make a change if

1315
01:19:55,260 --> 01:19:58,860
you want to force everyone else
to follow that change with you.

1316
01:19:58,860 --> 01:20:02,940
And so the The way I see it, you
know, like, I think Adams talked

1317
01:20:02,940 --> 01:20:08,430
about this too, like, what is an
album? You know, if not just

1318
01:20:08,460 --> 01:20:13,620
like a show, right? And what is
a track on an album? You know,

1319
01:20:13,680 --> 01:20:17,160
it's just the same thing as an
episode in that show. And so

1320
01:20:17,400 --> 01:20:21,390
we've been just trying to
leverage what exists and just

1321
01:20:21,390 --> 01:20:25,530
use it in a way that logically
that logically maps to music.

1322
01:20:25,920 --> 01:20:29,610
And I think it works. I don't
think, as far as I can tell, I

1323
01:20:29,610 --> 01:20:31,800
don't think there's much we need
to change. And I know there's

1324
01:20:32,100 --> 01:20:34,470
options in there for like
transcripts. Right? I mean, you

1325
01:20:34,470 --> 01:20:37,230
could easily put lyrics in
there. Or maybe there's two

1326
01:20:37,230 --> 01:20:38,550
separate things, right. I don't
know. But

1327
01:20:39,270 --> 01:20:41,340
Adam Curry: an album Mark can
come back finally.

1328
01:20:42,450 --> 01:20:44,100
Michael Rhee: Yeah, and then
yeah. And then you have, you

1329
01:20:44,100 --> 01:20:48,030
know, podcast show art is album,
I mean, all these things can be

1330
01:20:48,030 --> 01:20:51,390
easily translated. I think
anyone can make the can make the

1331
01:20:51,390 --> 01:20:55,500
leap pretty easily. And so yeah,
as far as the limit lacking I

1332
01:20:55,500 --> 01:20:58,560
would say, there's, there's more
than enough there to do music

1333
01:20:58,560 --> 01:20:59,160
and more.

1334
01:20:59,730 --> 01:21:02,040
Dave Jones: What let me ask you
about that on the transcript

1335
01:21:02,040 --> 01:21:04,950
side, because what do y'all do
LG lyrics now?

1336
01:21:05,250 --> 01:21:10,410
Michael Rhee: Any? No, we? Yeah,
I mean, we're pretty small team.

1337
01:21:10,770 --> 01:21:14,190
We actually just hired one other
developer and brought him on And

1338
01:21:14,190 --> 01:21:18,120
alas, Oh, congratulations. Thank
you. That's been a it's been a

1339
01:21:18,330 --> 01:21:22,680
big, it's been a big advantage.
And it's also a big change. Just

1340
01:21:22,710 --> 01:21:25,410
you know, having a third person
join us. But yeah, it's been

1341
01:21:25,410 --> 01:21:29,850
great. Josh, if you're
listening, you're awesome, man.

1342
01:21:31,560 --> 01:21:32,430
Sam Mean: Thank you, Josh.

1343
01:21:33,840 --> 01:21:37,830
Michael Rhee: But we love you,
Josh. You rocks. You totally

1344
01:21:37,830 --> 01:21:42,750
rocks. But yeah, I think I'm
sorry. I lost train of thought

1345
01:21:42,750 --> 01:21:43,200
there was yeah,

1346
01:21:43,200 --> 01:21:46,710
Dave Jones: like a deal. Like,
how do you handle lyrics? Do you

1347
01:21:46,740 --> 01:21:50,460
do? Do you do anything about
generation? Or do you allow your

1348
01:21:50,460 --> 01:21:53,490
artists to submit lyrics or
ahead? What is your plan for

1349
01:21:53,490 --> 01:21:53,790
that?

1350
01:21:54,510 --> 01:21:57,330
Michael Rhee: I think we would,
I think eventually will allow

1351
01:21:57,330 --> 01:22:01,500
artists to submit their lyrics.
And then I think there's also a

1352
01:22:01,500 --> 01:22:07,950
way to timecode them if I'm not
mistaken, in the Yeah, so that

1353
01:22:07,950 --> 01:22:11,550
would be great to have not only
the lyrics available, but also

1354
01:22:11,550 --> 01:22:15,780
you know, cuts of a track with
the song as the as the person is

1355
01:22:15,780 --> 01:22:20,580
listening to it. Yeah, so I
would I would love to see that

1356
01:22:20,700 --> 01:22:21,540
in the future.

1357
01:22:22,379 --> 01:22:24,599
Sam Mean: Okay, it'd be cool to
use the transcripts to have it

1358
01:22:24,599 --> 01:22:27,689
auto generated and then give
give the artists the ability to

1359
01:22:27,689 --> 01:22:30,269
go in and edit the transcript.
If, for some reason pick

1360
01:22:30,269 --> 01:22:33,779
something up from I've used
those before, and like, you

1361
01:22:33,779 --> 01:22:37,649
know, auto auto transcribers,
and like, their 99% there, but

1362
01:22:37,649 --> 01:22:39,899
sometimes they get things a
little bit goofy, it'd be cool

1363
01:22:39,899 --> 01:22:42,539
to be able to adjust it but have
that stuff all automatically

1364
01:22:42,539 --> 01:22:46,049
there. At least the start would
be great.

1365
01:22:46,200 --> 01:22:48,180
Adam Curry: If you guys don't
mind. I'd like to read a couple

1366
01:22:48,180 --> 01:22:50,490
of booster grants that have been
coming in. People have been

1367
01:22:50,490 --> 01:22:53,940
asking some questions making
some comments. And you've

1368
01:22:53,940 --> 01:23:00,510
probably heard the pew pew so
we'll kick it off with hard hat

1369
01:23:00,510 --> 01:23:05,070
thinking hard hat one a 101.
Boosting from curio Kassar, it

1370
01:23:05,070 --> 01:23:08,790
just says boosting fun, of
course, take that. another row

1371
01:23:08,790 --> 01:23:13,080
of ducks tu tu tu tu from hard
hat. Mike Dell keep on running

1372
01:23:13,080 --> 01:23:19,710
with scissors go podcasting.
With Freedom boost 1776 Steven B

1373
01:23:20,370 --> 01:23:24,480
would who doesn't know him curio
caster music side project

1374
01:23:24,480 --> 01:23:29,010
sovereign feeds 3333. And he
says 10 songs is one of my

1375
01:23:29,010 --> 01:23:31,860
favorite new albums, which I
think is cool. Yeah, I think

1376
01:23:31,860 --> 01:23:34,860
he's been promoting that as
well. Dred Scott. The Bruce

1377
01:23:34,860 --> 01:23:40,590
Wayne of podcasting. 2.0 77,777
SATs just boosting for the

1378
01:23:40,590 --> 01:23:42,420
boost. Thank you dress.

1379
01:23:42,450 --> 01:23:45,720
Dave Jones: It was almost a
Satoshi slam but he was 11,001

1380
01:23:45,720 --> 01:23:48,780
he was a satchel of Richard's
away from Satoshi slant. Holy

1381
01:23:48,780 --> 01:23:55,830
Adam Curry: crap. Oh, I like how
you calculated that you had that

1382
01:23:55,830 --> 01:23:58,380
ready to today if you were ready
for that one. That was ready.

1383
01:23:58,410 --> 01:24:02,670
Blueberry 17,776 Big freedom
boost I want to give big thanks

1384
01:24:02,670 --> 01:24:06,450
to Sam for guidance through
setting up a BTC pay server. The

1385
01:24:06,450 --> 01:24:09,540
lightning dot store website is
amazing. And seeing it was the

1386
01:24:09,540 --> 01:24:13,650
kick we needed for BTS and the V
for V swag is going to be a hot

1387
01:24:13,650 --> 01:24:19,890
wet summer of garage printing.
All right. Blueberry, Steven B

1388
01:24:19,890 --> 01:24:22,980
comes back in with a short row
of ducks. What are your ideas on

1389
01:24:22,980 --> 01:24:27,180
categorizing music by genre to
make search for music by type

1390
01:24:27,210 --> 01:24:31,770
easier, as I guess is a question
for for both you guys. And maybe

1391
01:24:31,770 --> 01:24:32,430
even Dave

1392
01:24:33,840 --> 01:24:35,250
Michael Rhee: That's yeah,
that's Yeah, question.

1393
01:24:35,730 --> 01:24:37,380
Sam Mean: It is a great we've
we've had some good

1394
01:24:37,380 --> 01:24:41,340
conversations in our telegram
chat about just the concept of

1395
01:24:41,970 --> 01:24:46,020
genres, you know, what they what
they really are, we definitely

1396
01:24:46,020 --> 01:24:50,310
need to work on some kind of
filtering. But it's tough to

1397
01:24:50,310 --> 01:24:53,550
know exactly how to do that
because it's you sort of have to

1398
01:24:53,550 --> 01:24:58,650
predefined a lot of them I think
or else you can get a lot of

1399
01:24:58,650 --> 01:25:03,300
duplicates and goofiness. And in
just the way things are

1400
01:25:03,300 --> 01:25:06,360
formatted and stuff, but I think
that's a tough one because you

1401
01:25:06,360 --> 01:25:08,910
don't want to, you don't want to
leave anybody out. But you also

1402
01:25:08,910 --> 01:25:10,650
want to be able to filter
through this stuff, especially

1403
01:25:10,650 --> 01:25:12,000
as the library begins to grow.

1404
01:25:12,150 --> 01:25:14,040
Adam Curry: Is that something
that is self selecting, though?

1405
01:25:14,040 --> 01:25:17,130
I mean, it's always been a bone
of contention with podcasting as

1406
01:25:17,130 --> 01:25:20,280
well, what category? What type
of podcast is this? I mean, I

1407
01:25:20,280 --> 01:25:21,960
don't know. Dave, do you have
any thoughts on that?

1408
01:25:22,440 --> 01:25:24,960
Dave Jones: Well, it's it to me
this, this all goes back to

1409
01:25:24,960 --> 01:25:29,010
discoverability. Problem and
discoverability. I will say

1410
01:25:29,010 --> 01:25:33,420
problem in quotes. Because the
issue when you when you want to

1411
01:25:33,420 --> 01:25:36,120
categorize something, the only
reason you categorize it is so

1412
01:25:36,120 --> 01:25:40,440
you can find it later or so
somebody else can find it. By

1413
01:25:40,440 --> 01:25:43,680
Category instead of if, when
they don't know what they're

1414
01:25:43,680 --> 01:25:47,820
looking for. So if you have in
that only really works, if you

1415
01:25:47,820 --> 01:25:52,890
have, if you go in there and
choose, let's just say no metal

1416
01:25:52,890 --> 01:25:55,650
core to go in there. And that's
your genre. And there's six

1417
01:25:55,650 --> 01:25:59,160
albums there, that's great. You
can discover new new music that

1418
01:25:59,160 --> 01:26:02,640
way, if you choose metal core,
and there's 18,000 albums, you

1419
01:26:02,640 --> 01:26:05,010
might as well just go home, you
can't you're never gonna You're

1420
01:26:05,010 --> 01:26:09,570
not gonna find anything. So
like, category, like I agree

1421
01:26:09,570 --> 01:26:15,480
with you all, genre category is
only useful to a certain volume.

1422
01:26:16,230 --> 01:26:20,310
And then you're just really, it
just kind of falls off. So I

1423
01:26:20,310 --> 01:26:23,820
tend not, I tend to get dis
disheartened by trying to even

1424
01:26:23,820 --> 01:26:26,100
work on it. And I always kind of
bail out.

1425
01:26:26,130 --> 01:26:28,830
Adam Curry: This is what I
always liked about Napster is,

1426
01:26:28,860 --> 01:26:32,520
you know, if I search for a
song, and I found it, then I was

1427
01:26:32,520 --> 01:26:36,090
like, Hey, what is this guy?
Have? You know? And then you go,

1428
01:26:36,090 --> 01:26:39,060
because if you if if that person
had a collection, don't just a

1429
01:26:39,060 --> 01:26:42,300
listener had a collection of
songs I probably would like,

1430
01:26:42,630 --> 01:26:45,750
then I would find other things
in there. When Dan came that,

1431
01:26:46,080 --> 01:26:48,780
that discoverability that's what
I think is the key.

1432
01:26:49,500 --> 01:26:51,300
Sam Mean: Yeah, that's
definitely a way experience on

1433
01:26:51,300 --> 01:26:51,840
Napster.

1434
01:26:52,650 --> 01:26:55,350
Yeah, that's a way better way to
discover music, like this

1435
01:26:55,350 --> 01:26:58,620
person, or, you know, through
playlisting through through that

1436
01:26:58,620 --> 01:27:01,440
exact thing. Recommendations.
Yeah, it's

1437
01:27:04,110 --> 01:27:05,280
Michael Rhee: so yeah, go ahead,
Sam.

1438
01:27:07,440 --> 01:27:09,240
Sam Mean: I'm done. I think we
got a little bit of a delay. I'm

1439
01:27:09,240 --> 01:27:09,510
good.

1440
01:27:09,929 --> 01:27:12,929
Michael Rhee: Okay, I'm just
gonna say genre, like genre is

1441
01:27:12,929 --> 01:27:17,399
really tricky, because I think
it's so subjective. Like some

1442
01:27:17,399 --> 01:27:20,369
listener, you know, you've
mentioned metal core, like, I'm

1443
01:27:20,369 --> 01:27:24,809
sure there's nine different sub
genres of metal core, that metal

1444
01:27:24,809 --> 01:27:29,039
core fan like, you know, you get
offended if you were to put one

1445
01:27:29,039 --> 01:27:32,219
with the other but, and then the
other tricky thing is like, when

1446
01:27:32,219 --> 01:27:36,959
you're in a band, you like, you
think you're one thing, right?

1447
01:27:36,989 --> 01:27:41,969
Other people, like, if you have
an agent, or like, like, you

1448
01:27:41,969 --> 01:27:44,909
know, promoter that week? No,
no, you're this and we're like,

1449
01:27:44,909 --> 01:27:49,649
but we thought I was just like,
artsy, like, artsy, like prog

1450
01:27:49,649 --> 01:27:53,129
rock band, they'd be like, No,
your bog hat or whatever. I

1451
01:27:53,130 --> 01:27:56,340
Adam Curry: mean, I wouldn't. I
wouldn't even say, you know, if,

1452
01:27:56,640 --> 01:28:00,360
if there was an app that just
had a trail, you know, here's,

1453
01:28:00,390 --> 01:28:03,630
here's what else I listened to
be. I'm not even something not

1454
01:28:03,630 --> 01:28:06,300
even not a playlist necessarily,
that I put together, although

1455
01:28:06,300 --> 01:28:09,630
that's also that's also valid.
But just oh, here's the stuff I

1456
01:28:09,630 --> 01:28:13,680
was listening to the I come back
to this every single time I

1457
01:28:13,680 --> 01:28:16,410
opened up fountain, I saw Dave
Jones, who had boosted

1458
01:28:16,410 --> 01:28:19,470
something. I went to go listen
to it right away. It wasn't for

1459
01:28:19,470 --> 01:28:22,290
me. But if I see that again,
I'll do it again. Because

1460
01:28:22,380 --> 01:28:25,260
Because I know Dave and I know
Dave tastes, Dave's tastes and

1461
01:28:25,260 --> 01:28:27,780
do some things will be for me.
Something's not but that's

1462
01:28:27,780 --> 01:28:32,610
discovery. You know, I think
search by genre, algorithmic

1463
01:28:32,610 --> 01:28:35,730
stuff. That's that's a path to
death and destruction. Oh, by

1464
01:28:35,730 --> 01:28:42,450
the way, Dred Scott. There you
go. 1888. Nick came right back

1465
01:28:42,450 --> 01:28:46,470
just to show us that he can do
it. Another one from Steven B.

1466
01:28:46,470 --> 01:28:50,430
Hey, wave Lake one. What's your
plan for automatically adding

1467
01:28:50,430 --> 01:28:53,430
your directory to the index
right now bands are adding their

1468
01:28:53,430 --> 01:28:56,790
wave Lake feeds manually? And
I'll give you the second part to

1469
01:28:56,940 --> 01:28:59,820
what's your plan for being able
to play albums and wave lake

1470
01:28:59,820 --> 01:29:03,360
that aren't hosted on wave Lake?
These are big questions.

1471
01:29:05,850 --> 01:29:07,110
Michael Rhee: Put in this
question.

1472
01:29:07,860 --> 01:29:10,950
Adam Curry: When you're stumped,
we have stumped the band.

1473
01:29:12,330 --> 01:29:15,030
Michael Rhee: So I think Dave
alluded to this a little bit

1474
01:29:15,690 --> 01:29:20,430
when he was talking about the
way we want the fact that we

1475
01:29:20,430 --> 01:29:25,410
want to make sure that music is
presented in a way that's that

1476
01:29:25,410 --> 01:29:30,000
just looks good that make that
that sort of puts it puts its

1477
01:29:30,000 --> 01:29:34,380
best foot forward, so to speak.
And one of the concerns we had

1478
01:29:34,380 --> 01:29:39,000
about auto loading the feeds
into podcasts index was that we

1479
01:29:39,000 --> 01:29:41,820
were concerned that these albums
might show up on well, they

1480
01:29:41,820 --> 01:29:46,200
would show up on value for value
podcast players presented sort

1481
01:29:46,200 --> 01:29:50,820
of out of whack. And so I think
our thinking was, you know, in

1482
01:29:50,820 --> 01:29:54,360
order to sort of, I guess,
preserve the quality of the

1483
01:29:54,360 --> 01:29:58,020
experience for music listeners,
you know, I think it's great if

1484
01:29:58,020 --> 01:30:02,010
people make other value for
value music players like I think

1485
01:30:02,010 --> 01:30:04,740
that would be a first step in
that direction and seeing more

1486
01:30:04,740 --> 01:30:08,010
of those would give us more
confidence, putting music

1487
01:30:08,490 --> 01:30:14,730
medium, tagged feeds into the
podcast index automatically. But

1488
01:30:14,730 --> 01:30:17,970
I think like right now, we just
don't see that yet. But we're

1489
01:30:17,970 --> 01:30:23,820
hoping we're hoping that starts
happening soon. And then the

1490
01:30:23,820 --> 01:30:28,650
second question was having feeds
consumed by wavelight.com? I

1491
01:30:28,650 --> 01:30:31,560
think, yeah, we would like to
see that as well to have like

1492
01:30:31,560 --> 01:30:36,810
self hosted feeds on
wavelight.com. To be perfectly

1493
01:30:36,810 --> 01:30:42,630
honest, we haven't seen very
much demand we do. We have like

1494
01:30:42,630 --> 01:30:48,420
one request that I can name or
think of, of that of someone

1495
01:30:48,420 --> 01:30:52,560
wanting to publish their own
feed, but you know, in terms of

1496
01:30:52,620 --> 01:30:56,940
like, everything we've got up in
the air right now, it's on our

1497
01:30:56,940 --> 01:30:59,970
like to do list but it's because
there's so many other things

1498
01:30:59,970 --> 01:31:03,480
we're trying to push forward to,
you know, make the site is

1499
01:31:03,480 --> 01:31:09,690
Adam Curry: greatest, faster,
build faster, build fine. Sam,

1500
01:31:09,690 --> 01:31:14,400
Seth, the CEO of pod fans comes
in with 10,000 SATs. He says add

1501
01:31:14,850 --> 01:31:18,570
rel equals episode or rel equals
track to create a pod role or

1502
01:31:18,570 --> 01:31:24,000
music role to create playlists.
So he's already thinking we have

1503
01:31:24,690 --> 01:31:28,890
that we have another 10,000 from
Sam Sethi. He says boost our

1504
01:31:28,890 --> 01:31:32,790
comments was SATs zaps are like
payments but no comment. That's

1505
01:31:32,790 --> 01:31:35,400
definitely a way to look at it.
And there's another 10,000 from

1506
01:31:35,400 --> 01:31:41,370
Sam Sethi go to bed Sam Aldi has
added he says I'll be added the

1507
01:31:41,370 --> 01:31:45,240
noster in pub public key to the
API we are this is for pod fans.

1508
01:31:45,240 --> 01:31:48,390
We automatically pull this into
pod fans and now have a nostril

1509
01:31:48,420 --> 01:31:52,080
icon on the user's profile. So
it's spreading this idea of the

1510
01:31:52,080 --> 01:31:56,460
distributed or the identity you
can you can take with you or

1511
01:31:56,460 --> 01:32:03,120
create a toss like a burner
identity. Anonymous 19,760 Pew

1512
01:32:03,120 --> 01:32:06,450
pew who's buying lunch Thank
you. Drip stop just testing

1513
01:32:06,600 --> 01:32:16,620
testing Elden gar the the split
kit 7777. We have n v n for VX

1514
01:32:16,650 --> 01:32:20,070
with elite booster team. 37.
Thank you for your coding. Thank

1515
01:32:20,070 --> 01:32:23,520
you for your courage. Dred
Scott. Another test of Eldon gar

1516
01:32:23,520 --> 01:32:29,190
was 7777 Eric p p with 33,333.
No Nope. Tone record with a

1517
01:32:29,190 --> 01:32:33,960
short row of sticks. Sherlock
Holmes seek out that 10k SATs

1518
01:32:33,960 --> 01:32:37,140
and boosted a few minutes before
today's meeting started up.

1519
01:32:37,140 --> 01:32:41,220
Okay, I'll see that in a sec.
I'm sure. Chat F with a test

1520
01:32:41,220 --> 01:32:45,210
Dred Scott with a test tone
record with a Van Halen boost

1521
01:32:45,210 --> 01:32:55,770
1984. And I think we are Oh,
Martin Linda's koge says I look

1522
01:32:55,770 --> 01:32:58,710
forward to Dame Jennifer's
animated version of the episode

1523
01:32:58,740 --> 01:33:01,830
our podcast 2.0 micropayments
actually worth it by Daniel J.

1524
01:33:01,830 --> 01:33:05,400
Lewis with a short row of ducks
while she's working on it,

1525
01:33:05,430 --> 01:33:09,060
there's a long one. So it takes
about one minute I think takes

1526
01:33:09,060 --> 01:33:12,630
about an hour of work. So
hopefully she'll have that done

1527
01:33:13,050 --> 01:33:17,340
in a week or so. And then I'm at
the delimiter So Dave, you want

1528
01:33:17,340 --> 01:33:19,560
to thank some other people who
have helped us with this value

1529
01:33:19,560 --> 01:33:22,020
for value project known as
podcasting. 2.0

1530
01:33:22,740 --> 01:33:26,430
Dave Jones: Yeah, sure. We don't
have any one off PayPals this

1531
01:33:26,700 --> 01:33:29,400
Adam Curry: version completes
conversion completes.

1532
01:33:30,570 --> 01:33:34,650
Dave Jones: But we do have lots
of boosts we've got a 808 a boo

1533
01:33:34,650 --> 01:33:37,560
boost from chat as he says
verifying my feed well Chad your

1534
01:33:37,560 --> 01:33:43,110
feed is verified through the
tricolor. That would be the

1535
01:33:43,110 --> 01:33:47,490
Swedish tricolor. I'm imagining
1234 through fountain. He says

1536
01:33:47,520 --> 01:33:49,410
in his message it says
podcasting.

1537
01:33:49,980 --> 01:33:53,190
Adam Curry: Yes, podcast
podcasting.

1538
01:33:54,420 --> 01:33:58,350
Dave Jones: Let's see somebody
Oh, that's that's me. What how

1539
01:33:58,350 --> 01:34:00,840
did i How did I How did I boost
myself probably

1540
01:34:01,590 --> 01:34:03,930
Adam Curry: illegal by the way
in 2016. So

1541
01:34:05,700 --> 01:34:10,050
Dave Jones: I know and I know
what this is. This is Dave Jones

1542
01:34:10,500 --> 01:34:14,280
says 2112 And it says through
breeze Dave Jones again here and

1543
01:34:14,280 --> 01:34:18,750
I don't care about verifiable
identity. That's me. I know what

1544
01:34:18,750 --> 01:34:21,840
that's okay. Yeah, and I think I
know who this is. Yeah, this

1545
01:34:21,930 --> 01:34:26,280
Yes. points. Point taken. Yes.
Point taken 20 And he just keeps

1546
01:34:26,280 --> 01:34:30,930
on going. Todd from Northern
Virginia 11 111 Big satchel

1547
01:34:30,930 --> 01:34:34,530
Richards through breezes is
boosted boosted real good.

1548
01:34:34,530 --> 01:34:41,220
Sorry. Boost. Nicholas B 58 5000
SATs through fountain. This is

1549
01:34:41,220 --> 01:34:43,890
nice episode keep boosting guys.
All right. Thank you. Thanks,

1550
01:34:43,890 --> 01:34:47,190
Nicholas. Another one from
Nicholas and other 5000 SATs who

1551
01:34:47,190 --> 01:34:50,550
fountaining says another boost
from the Swiss German Bitcoin

1552
01:34:50,550 --> 01:34:59,070
podcast called oh lord de
decentral Schwartz podcast and D

1553
01:34:59,280 --> 01:35:02,130
decentral. slides boost boost
boost.

1554
01:35:02,460 --> 01:35:04,500
Adam Curry: Good enough for me.
Yeah, I'm

1555
01:35:04,500 --> 01:35:06,120
Sam Mean: gonna Yeah, I'm gonna
boost you on that for that one.

1556
01:35:06,150 --> 01:35:10,260
Dave Jones: Okay sorry sorry for
this shameless plug. Great work

1557
01:35:10,260 --> 01:35:13,650
guys. Thank you. And another
another one the last one from

1558
01:35:13,650 --> 01:35:17,760
Nicolas be 58 through fountain
and he says another boost boost

1559
01:35:18,480 --> 01:35:23,670
boost. Clark in my buddy 25,001
SATs through fountain Ed says

1560
01:35:23,670 --> 01:35:30,870
boop beep all right, don't just
boost our Davis at seven 4000

1561
01:35:30,870 --> 01:35:35,460
SATs the pod verse in our Davis
says as to the discussion at the

1562
01:35:35,460 --> 01:35:38,040
beginning of the show on
transcripts, I don't think as a

1563
01:35:38,040 --> 01:35:41,310
podcast listener and a future
podcast producer, I don't think

1564
01:35:41,310 --> 01:35:44,940
we need a word for word
timestamp. I think it's

1565
01:35:44,940 --> 01:35:48,060
overkill. What we have now with
SRT is fine.

1566
01:35:49,680 --> 01:35:51,000
Adam Curry: You're in the
minority there.

1567
01:35:52,080 --> 01:35:54,870
Dave Jones: Normally Think About
It with Think About It with

1568
01:35:54,870 --> 01:35:56,910
music. I mean, look we're
talking about today I mean, a

1569
01:35:56,910 --> 01:35:58,440
word for word follows a bouncing

1570
01:35:58,440 --> 01:35:59,010
Adam Curry: ball.

1571
01:35:59,520 --> 01:36:04,200
Dave Jones: Mm hmm it's pretty
strong. I mean, like I can

1572
01:36:04,200 --> 01:36:08,010
imagine especially for you know,
hearing impaired I don't I'm

1573
01:36:08,010 --> 01:36:09,780
high on the word for word
timestamp.

1574
01:36:09,809 --> 01:36:10,589
Adam Curry: I'm with you.

1575
01:36:10,620 --> 01:36:14,070
Dave Jones: I'm with you on
that. Are David's 87 4000 SATs

1576
01:36:14,070 --> 01:36:17,370
through pod verse again. He says
I love all this web hook talk in

1577
01:36:17,370 --> 01:36:22,200
JavaScript. I can't get enough
of this hot namespace talk gets

1578
01:36:22,200 --> 01:36:26,910
me all excited to go podcasting
and pod Father, if you will.

1579
01:36:27,030 --> 01:36:32,370
Yeah. Please give me a goat
screen. That's in the that's the

1580
01:36:32,370 --> 01:36:32,790
other day.

1581
01:36:34,050 --> 01:36:35,310
Adam Curry: Actually have it
somewhere.

1582
01:36:36,780 --> 01:36:40,560
Dave Jones: Mere Mortals 2222
through fountain.

1583
01:36:42,270 --> 01:36:44,460
Adam Curry: Found the co
founder. I found the goat

1584
01:36:45,810 --> 01:36:48,210
Dave Jones: goat delivered. The
Standards Project does sound

1585
01:36:48,210 --> 01:36:50,850
like a lot of politicking. I
wish them all the best with it.

1586
01:36:50,910 --> 01:36:56,760
High five. Yo, yo. Joel who says
hello? Richards through

1587
01:36:56,760 --> 01:37:00,960
fountain? No, no, thank you,
Joe. Jean bein elite boost 1337

1588
01:37:00,960 --> 01:37:03,750
says hopefully fountain will
want to be PSP certified and

1589
01:37:03,750 --> 01:37:06,630
will implement transcripts. True

1590
01:37:06,660 --> 01:37:07,980
Adam Curry: that answers my
question.

1591
01:37:08,790 --> 01:37:10,050
Dave Jones: What was your
question?

1592
01:37:10,080 --> 01:37:11,910
Adam Curry: I wondered if they
had transcripts? I guess they

1593
01:37:11,910 --> 01:37:13,110
don't. They don't.

1594
01:37:13,200 --> 01:37:16,020
Dave Jones: Okay. Gene being
again, delete moose through cast

1595
01:37:16,020 --> 01:37:19,290
Matic is this How is what Adam
wants from noster different from

1596
01:37:19,290 --> 01:37:25,440
an OAuth or open ID system? I
think it I mean, I think it's

1597
01:37:25,440 --> 01:37:29,640
because there you can create
them with it's just a public

1598
01:37:29,640 --> 01:37:32,280
private key private key pair and
you could tell some of the

1599
01:37:32,280 --> 01:37:34,080
things just because the
throwaway identities and they

1600
01:37:34,080 --> 01:37:38,610
don't require near as much work.
Yeah. I mean, that would be my,

1601
01:37:39,780 --> 01:37:44,130
my guess there. Gene been 2222
through cast medic says, Adam,

1602
01:37:44,130 --> 01:37:47,580
if you've had this 180 degree
change of opinion on booster

1603
01:37:47,580 --> 01:37:51,300
Graham's showing up in apps? Why
are they still all for this

1604
01:37:51,300 --> 01:37:52,170
show? And fountain?

1605
01:37:53,310 --> 01:37:57,150
Adam Curry: Oh, let's have him
to turn back on. I don't think I

1606
01:37:57,150 --> 01:37:59,430
can control that. Can I? I don't
think I can turn them on.

1607
01:37:59,940 --> 01:38:03,120
Dave Jones: We have to request
it from Oscar Oscar. We'll

1608
01:38:03,120 --> 01:38:05,160
Adam Curry: do it. Yeah, let's
turn them on. Sure. I mean,

1609
01:38:05,190 --> 01:38:09,510
clearly it works. And I thought
I had I thought by adding a

1610
01:38:09,510 --> 01:38:12,900
split in there, it would
actually enable them. So anyway.

1611
01:38:12,900 --> 01:38:14,910
Yeah, I'll ask Oscar to turn on.
Absolutely.

1612
01:38:15,780 --> 01:38:18,630
Dave Jones: Gene been 10,000
says the foundation has really

1613
01:38:18,630 --> 01:38:20,670
enjoyed Tom and Kevin being on
the show and all the hot

1614
01:38:20,670 --> 01:38:21,420
namespace talk.

1615
01:38:22,140 --> 01:38:26,370
Adam Curry: You guys are sick.
Okay, y'all. Like it hotter

1616
01:38:26,370 --> 01:38:27,600
namespace talk,

1617
01:38:27,810 --> 01:38:31,380
Dave Jones: sir. twin screw
1893. He says I'm with you,

1618
01:38:31,380 --> 01:38:34,470
Adam. I like the nostre concept.
It's kind of like keybase

1619
01:38:35,490 --> 01:38:39,990
Adam Curry: Oh, yeah. I don't
like Cubase. Interestingly, I

1620
01:38:39,990 --> 01:38:41,280
understand what you're saying.
Yeah.

1621
01:38:41,880 --> 01:38:45,990
Dave Jones: Alex had a good
analogy for noster the other day

1622
01:38:45,990 --> 01:38:49,380
he said it's sort of like ham
radio relays.

1623
01:38:50,160 --> 01:38:52,440
Adam Curry: Oh, totally. That's
why That's probably why I like

1624
01:38:52,440 --> 01:38:57,150
it. That in fact, there is a
protocol out there based on the

1625
01:38:57,150 --> 01:39:03,000
J x nine protocol I think that
works on very low power and you

1626
01:39:03,000 --> 01:39:08,340
can actually it's all digital so
you have a program on your on

1627
01:39:08,340 --> 01:39:13,170
your laptop and connects to your
radio. And people can your your

1628
01:39:13,170 --> 01:39:18,840
radio can function as a relay to
send the signal further when it

1629
01:39:18,840 --> 01:39:23,040
receives it from one to the
other. And I can already see

1630
01:39:23,040 --> 01:39:27,330
some some crazy person setting
up a Nastar on ham radio jet to

1631
01:39:27,330 --> 01:39:32,010
propagate I guarantee and I'll
be there. I'll definitely

1632
01:39:32,010 --> 01:39:34,020
participate. I love that stuff.
Doesn't

1633
01:39:34,080 --> 01:39:38,190
Sam Mean: doesn't NBK do that.
Because he was like a ham. I

1634
01:39:38,190 --> 01:39:39,480
thought he was a ham radio guy.

1635
01:39:41,130 --> 01:39:43,200
Adam Curry: I think I don't know
if he does that. He's definitely

1636
01:39:43,200 --> 01:39:46,950
a ham radio guy. You know, I was
arguably I was the first person

1637
01:39:46,950 --> 01:39:51,090
to receive SATs over ham radio.
Someone else claims that but it

1638
01:39:51,090 --> 01:39:51,420
was

1639
01:39:52,290 --> 01:39:54,960
Sam Mean: Yeah, I thought he was
he was doing the SATs over ham

1640
01:39:54,960 --> 01:39:57,270
radio thing. Was he doing that
with you?

1641
01:39:58,290 --> 01:40:00,660
Adam Curry: Know It was somewhat
I don't know. It was sold as

1642
01:40:00,660 --> 01:40:02,820
years ago. I don't remember. I
don't remember.

1643
01:40:03,959 --> 01:40:05,339
Sam Mean: Yeah, ham father to

1644
01:40:05,849 --> 01:40:11,669
Adam Curry: know. They call that
no, wait for it. They call that

1645
01:40:11,669 --> 01:40:15,779
an Elmer. So no, I'm okay. Being
an Elmer

1646
01:40:18,090 --> 01:40:21,840
Dave Jones: Steven B 1000 SATs
through through the elding gar

1647
01:40:21,840 --> 01:40:26,730
app. Oh, nice to see a new app
show up. Yay. He says elding gar

1648
01:40:26,760 --> 01:40:31,020
easy podcast link builder test
boost. There. You weren't by

1649
01:40:31,500 --> 01:40:36,630
Stephen. by five. He got about
about six days and they're all

1650
01:40:36,630 --> 01:40:41,460
good Steven boomie of the lb
teams and has 2100 SATs and he

1651
01:40:41,460 --> 01:40:42,450
says high five.

1652
01:40:42,540 --> 01:40:45,720
Adam Curry: Yo, yo, thank you.
Borlaug.

1653
01:40:45,930 --> 01:40:51,690
Dave Jones: 101010 coronary whoa

1654
01:40:51,960 --> 01:41:01,500
Adam Curry: Sakala 20 is Blaze.
Oh my. Oh my god. I figured we

1655
01:41:01,500 --> 01:41:06,930
throw that in for Sam. We're
getting their train going you

1656
01:41:06,930 --> 01:41:07,170
know.

1657
01:41:08,940 --> 01:41:10,020
Sam Mean: Don't get another
train and

1658
01:41:12,240 --> 01:41:16,560
Dave Jones: you need train in
your podcast. Thank you Borlaug.

1659
01:41:16,560 --> 01:41:19,260
He says how many sets does it
take before we can put board

1660
01:41:19,260 --> 01:41:24,300
member on a CV like anaise
episode? That Oh, baby.

1661
01:41:24,600 --> 01:41:26,460
Adam Curry: Oh, that's that's a
good question.

1662
01:41:26,850 --> 01:41:28,800
Dave Jones: Well, often, how
many sets will it take to get

1663
01:41:28,800 --> 01:41:35,400
Mr. Dave Jones to do another
weekly podcast another week? No,

1664
01:41:35,400 --> 01:41:39,870
a lot more than 100. I love what
you're doing. And I love both of

1665
01:41:39,870 --> 01:41:43,170
you. Thank you so much. Thank
you. Thank you Borlaug. Thanks

1666
01:41:43,170 --> 01:41:47,460
for that cast VLAN 3692 found
and he says like the Gnostic

1667
01:41:47,460 --> 01:41:50,820
talk getting some old BitTorrent
Sync feelings around the things

1668
01:41:50,820 --> 01:41:52,440
I thank you for working for
free.

1669
01:41:53,040 --> 01:41:55,110
Adam Curry: BitTorrent saying
how you doing booth? Yeah, I

1670
01:41:55,110 --> 01:41:58,590
remember. Remember another
failed project, too bad

1671
01:41:58,620 --> 01:42:03,780
Dave Jones: decent 100% District
decentralization is? I'll say it

1672
01:42:03,780 --> 01:42:06,360
again. It's impossibly
difficult, although

1673
01:42:06,360 --> 01:42:10,110
Adam Curry: I will say that, you
know, as someone was looking to

1674
01:42:10,110 --> 01:42:15,660
pull in all the old daily source
code archives. Someone I think I

1675
01:42:15,660 --> 01:42:19,320
think Chris Chris Freising
founded some some lonely old

1676
01:42:19,320 --> 01:42:23,250
dude still out there, had a
BitTorrent Sync Node up with all

1677
01:42:23,250 --> 01:42:25,920
the daily source code episodes
and we were able to collect them

1678
01:42:25,920 --> 01:42:28,320
from that one from that one
person.

1679
01:42:30,030 --> 01:42:33,150
Dave Jones: He's also the guy
that runs NTP or whatever, like

1680
01:42:34,830 --> 01:42:36,780
Adam Curry: what an NTP you
know,

1681
01:42:36,780 --> 01:42:38,040
Dave Jones: like Network Time
Protocol,

1682
01:42:38,309 --> 01:42:41,639
Adam Curry: that old dude and
NTP isn't that NTP the network

1683
01:42:41,910 --> 01:42:44,730
Dave Jones: doesn't use this use
net in into NNTP. He's using it.

1684
01:42:45,450 --> 01:42:48,510
Adam Curry: Oh, okay. What was
yeah, I forget what it was.

1685
01:42:49,019 --> 01:42:52,679
Dave Jones: Yeah, that are to
see our Davis at seven 4000 SATs

1686
01:42:52,679 --> 01:42:55,949
through pod verse. He says a day
before pre boost boost at this

1687
01:42:56,219 --> 01:42:59,969
way saying I'm getting last
year, a day before pre boost

1688
01:42:59,969 --> 01:43:04,769
boost. TM pod father and podsafe
just finished listening to the

1689
01:43:04,769 --> 01:43:08,579
future podcasting and wondered
about your thoughts on Daniel J.

1690
01:43:08,579 --> 01:43:11,219
Lewis. His proposal for cross
app comments also interested in

1691
01:43:11,219 --> 01:43:14,069
hearing your thoughts about the
ideal of making the chapters

1692
01:43:14,069 --> 01:43:17,879
comments and transcripts,
transcript tags, child tags of

1693
01:43:17,879 --> 01:43:21,749
podcast metadata tag. As always,
thank you for your courage and

1694
01:43:21,749 --> 01:43:25,769
go podcasting? Well. I think we
I think that deserves its own

1695
01:43:25,949 --> 01:43:29,729
discussion on its own episode.
But yes, it does have lots of

1696
01:43:29,729 --> 01:43:30,569
thoughts about it.

1697
01:43:30,690 --> 01:43:33,060
Adam Curry: You already shut me
down when I just when I just

1698
01:43:33,060 --> 01:43:38,070
brought it in. You shut down.
And rightfully so.

1699
01:43:38,760 --> 01:43:41,850
Dave Jones: Yeah. I listened to
Dan. I listened to that episode

1700
01:43:41,850 --> 01:43:46,680
with Daniel and Dave. Great
description. And I think it

1701
01:43:46,680 --> 01:43:49,650
deserves its own sort of
breakdown. They did an

1702
01:43:49,650 --> 01:43:51,990
Adam Curry: episode about the
about the crosstab. I'll have to

1703
01:43:51,990 --> 01:43:53,610
listen to that. Obviously that
right after we're done.

1704
01:43:54,060 --> 01:43:56,880
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, I opted
for that instead of reading the

1705
01:43:56,880 --> 01:43:57,600
documentation,

1706
01:43:57,630 --> 01:43:59,070
Adam Curry: right. Yes. Thank
you,

1707
01:44:00,510 --> 01:44:04,350
Dave Jones: lyceum. 2222. So
see, blah, blah, blah. Nope,

1708
01:44:04,500 --> 01:44:10,110
that was that was one we already
got and Macintosh. 2100. Just

1709
01:44:10,110 --> 01:44:13,500
listen to the Marty bent
interview. Love it. Dave, when

1710
01:44:13,500 --> 01:44:16,440
do you sleep? I can't wait to
hear more about this new tool

1711
01:44:16,440 --> 01:44:20,700
today. Yeah, well, you just
heard it. Yeah. Good, good

1712
01:44:20,730 --> 01:44:23,130
appearance on TFT. See there.

1713
01:44:23,280 --> 01:44:25,740
Adam Curry: Thank you. Thank
you. I love Marty. I want a

1714
01:44:25,740 --> 01:44:27,720
great, great guy. Yeah.

1715
01:44:28,980 --> 01:44:30,750
Dave Jones: And we got the
delimiter comic strip blogger

1716
01:44:30,750 --> 01:44:36,060
30 3015 through fountain, and he
says, daring Dave and artfully

1717
01:44:36,060 --> 01:44:39,840
ardent Adam. The delimiter is
proud as punch to bankroll the

1718
01:44:39,840 --> 01:44:42,720
longest running continuously
boosted podcast in the universe,

1719
01:44:43,110 --> 01:44:46,860
especially with the salubrious
value of BTC trending

1720
01:44:46,860 --> 01:44:50,370
heavenwards God willing, this
will be the priciest pager duty

1721
01:44:50,370 --> 01:44:53,940
there is your automated Umbral
checker will only ask that you

1722
01:44:53,940 --> 01:44:57,090
consider the AI dot cooking
podcast show as an option to

1723
01:44:57,090 --> 01:45:01,470
spend some time with once a
fortnight yo, it's dsbn growth

1724
01:45:02,970 --> 01:45:06,810
Adam Curry: if you boost Thank
you gentlemen. Good booths,

1725
01:45:06,810 --> 01:45:11,670
everybody. Appreciate it. It's
value for value and I think we

1726
01:45:11,730 --> 01:45:15,420
probably have some monthlies or
some PDFs that have come in that

1727
01:45:15,420 --> 01:45:16,710
we want to thank people for.

1728
01:45:17,010 --> 01:45:18,870
Dave Jones: We do we got some
monthlies. We got a pod verse

1729
01:45:18,900 --> 01:45:25,500
$50. Thank you Mitch. Oh, Lauren
ball $24.20 $24.20 got basil

1730
01:45:25,500 --> 01:45:31,200
Phillip $25. Mitch Downey also a
pod verse $10. Christopher Hara

1731
01:45:31,200 --> 01:45:37,230
Barack $10. Terry Keller $5
Chris Cowan $5 Jeremy Kavanaugh

1732
01:45:37,230 --> 01:45:44,190
$10 Jeffrey Rutherford. $5 David
Norman. Hey David $25 Damon.

1733
01:45:44,340 --> 01:45:50,070
Kesa Jack $15 Derek J. Vickery.
$21 and lovely name. Paul

1734
01:45:50,070 --> 01:45:54,480
Saltzman $22.22 and Jeremy
gerdts $5.

1735
01:45:54,630 --> 01:45:58,950
Adam Curry: And, and believe it
or not, we have a tally coin.

1736
01:45:59,490 --> 01:46:06,090
Tally coin on chain Rev. From No
no, no, no, no. From this is

1737
01:46:06,090 --> 01:46:07,260
from chyron

1738
01:46:08,370 --> 01:46:09,780
Dave Jones: Oh, for Mere
Mortals. Yes,

1739
01:46:09,780 --> 01:46:13,320
Adam Curry: he says Sam is super
cool. That will be Sam Sethi who

1740
01:46:13,320 --> 01:46:15,390
we interviewed Did you hear that
interview? Did you hear that?

1741
01:46:15,420 --> 01:46:16,500
That interview they did.

1742
01:46:16,680 --> 01:46:17,430
Dave Jones: Dave not yet.

1743
01:46:17,970 --> 01:46:18,750
Michael Rhee: Get Akito

1744
01:46:19,260 --> 01:46:21,750
Adam Curry: feels like we barely
scratched the surface such kind

1745
01:46:21,750 --> 01:46:24,900
words. So this is to make Adam
feel warm and fuzzy inside

1746
01:46:25,020 --> 01:46:28,740
30,330. SAS thank you so much
current appreciate I love it

1747
01:46:28,740 --> 01:46:32,190
when someone uses Italie coin,
because so many people requested

1748
01:46:32,190 --> 01:46:35,370
it because they're gonna send us
plenty of mucho Bitcoins. And it

1749
01:46:35,370 --> 01:46:39,570
turns out they don't. But we we
really want you to use a modern

1750
01:46:39,570 --> 01:46:43,440
podcast app, get that a podcast
apps.com Boost us of course, you

1751
01:46:43,440 --> 01:46:46,020
can go to podcast index.org
Scroll down to the bottom, we've

1752
01:46:46,020 --> 01:46:51,120
got to two red donate buttons,
one for PayPal for your Fiat

1753
01:46:51,120 --> 01:46:54,480
fund coupons. And of course for
the tally coin. And again, we

1754
01:46:54,480 --> 01:46:57,000
like getting the boost and the
booster grams. And thank you for

1755
01:46:57,000 --> 01:47:00,840
supporting the podcast in 2.0
podcast, the boardroom and the

1756
01:47:00,840 --> 01:47:06,000
project. You are in fact keeping
the engines running. And we

1757
01:47:06,030 --> 01:47:12,750
cannot thank you enough. Have
we? Have we missed anything?

1758
01:47:12,900 --> 01:47:14,280
wavelike boys?

1759
01:47:16,200 --> 01:47:19,590
Sam Mean: No. This is really,
this is awesome. We covered we

1760
01:47:19,590 --> 01:47:20,610
covered all ground.

1761
01:47:22,350 --> 01:47:23,520
Dave Jones: Everything
exhaustive.

1762
01:47:24,030 --> 01:47:28,950
Adam Curry: Yes, I am so excited
about the future and what you

1763
01:47:28,950 --> 01:47:33,240
guys are doing and will continue
to keep motivating app

1764
01:47:33,240 --> 01:47:37,020
developers. I mean, it's it's a
it's a heavy lift. You know,

1765
01:47:37,050 --> 01:47:42,630
creating, creating an app is not
easy. Of course what is very

1766
01:47:42,630 --> 01:47:46,830
cool. Is there several open
source projects that that people

1767
01:47:46,830 --> 01:47:49,890
can use to get a start with
where are those do we have? Do

1768
01:47:49,890 --> 01:47:54,570
we link to any of those Dave?
Was there any time player is

1769
01:47:54,570 --> 01:47:57,630
that one? I mean, there's Yes,
you can you can pick up by

1770
01:47:57,870 --> 01:48:02,820
breeze breeze itself is open
source. You know I'm gonna start

1771
01:48:02,820 --> 01:48:07,950
hassling Roy. Hey, by the way,
where was Roy's? Where was Roy's

1772
01:48:07,950 --> 01:48:08,550
boost?

1773
01:48:09,300 --> 01:48:11,790
Dave Jones: Did not see a ROI
boost. Maybe we said something?

1774
01:48:11,790 --> 01:48:12,660
Maybe we offended him?

1775
01:48:13,770 --> 01:48:16,410
Adam Curry: He's like, No, I am
not sending anything to them.

1776
01:48:16,410 --> 01:48:18,030
I'm just going to sleep now.

1777
01:48:18,510 --> 01:48:21,780
Dave Jones: It's my it's my
fault for knocking down a

1778
01:48:21,780 --> 01:48:23,040
takedown. noster need.

1779
01:48:25,890 --> 01:48:27,930
Adam Curry: I'm gonna talk to
you. I know. Now wave Lake is

1780
01:48:27,930 --> 01:48:30,810
already integrated as an app,
isn't it into breeze?

1781
01:48:32,250 --> 01:48:35,010
Sam Mean: Though I think it
needs to be updated. Like the

1782
01:48:35,010 --> 01:48:37,860
old version was on there for a
second. So I don't think it

1783
01:48:37,860 --> 01:48:40,110
really works. Now we have to get
that upgraded on the new version

1784
01:48:40,110 --> 01:48:42,180
of whatever the new version of
race comes out.

1785
01:48:42,210 --> 01:48:44,220
Adam Curry: Leave it to me. Let
me talk. Let me talk to

1786
01:48:45,660 --> 01:48:48,870
Sam Mean: you take care of Roy.
Oh, yeah,

1787
01:48:48,930 --> 01:48:51,690
Adam Curry: it's what I do. I
love taking care of Roy. But I

1788
01:48:51,690 --> 01:48:51,990
do.

1789
01:48:52,290 --> 01:48:54,900
Sam Mean: I wanted to say it
again. I love Roy's rugs the

1790
01:48:54,900 --> 01:48:55,290
best and

1791
01:48:55,680 --> 01:48:58,380
Dave Jones: he's a great he's a
great person. Great person.

1792
01:48:58,500 --> 01:49:00,180
Adam Curry: All right,
gentlemen. Well, thank you so

1793
01:49:00,180 --> 01:49:03,870
much. Continued success. We're
here whenever you need

1794
01:49:03,870 --> 01:49:07,500
something. Whatever we can do,
we'd love doing it. Dave any

1795
01:49:07,500 --> 01:49:08,340
final words?

1796
01:49:09,930 --> 01:49:12,240
Dave Jones: I mean, if you'll
indulge me I just wanted to get

1797
01:49:12,270 --> 01:49:15,630
a wanted to get one
recommendation from Michael and

1798
01:49:15,630 --> 01:49:19,800
one recommendation for Sam for
an album off of yes, you know

1799
01:49:19,800 --> 01:49:23,160
alpha off of wavelength that
they are stoked about. Now Now

1800
01:49:23,160 --> 01:49:27,120
you each have music. Also.
You're both musicians. There's

1801
01:49:27,120 --> 01:49:30,570
one cannot you cannot reference
yourself horns coming back to

1802
01:49:30,570 --> 01:49:34,560
haunt you. You what? Give us one
give us one each What do you

1803
01:49:34,560 --> 01:49:39,120
enter? Okay, yeah.

1804
01:49:40,980 --> 01:49:42,600
Sam Mean: I'm trying to find the
name of it because I've already

1805
01:49:42,600 --> 01:49:44,970
forgotten the name. It's the
Turkish punk band

1806
01:49:46,260 --> 01:49:47,190
Dave Jones: All right, punk.

1807
01:49:47,190 --> 01:49:49,050
Adam Curry: I like it Turkish
punk band. I like it.

1808
01:49:49,080 --> 01:49:52,050
Michael Rhee: Oh, well. Okay, so
while you look that up? I would

1809
01:49:52,050 --> 01:49:57,270
recommend a band called Silver
unit. Awesome. Yeah. Have a

1810
01:49:57,450 --> 01:50:00,420
great one. Yeah, they have an
album on wave like that. I

1811
01:50:00,420 --> 01:50:02,220
really dig so I would recommend
that one.

1812
01:50:04,170 --> 01:50:08,340
Sam Mean: Yeah, actually, I'm
gonna I'm gonna give a shout out

1813
01:50:08,340 --> 01:50:12,600
other than like the easy ones
Jim Martin to homewrecker. I'm

1814
01:50:12,600 --> 01:50:16,920
going with man like quex he did
the M Pub song is sitting at

1815
01:50:16,920 --> 01:50:20,070
number two on our top 40 right
now. And it's the first track to

1816
01:50:20,070 --> 01:50:22,320
drop wave lake in lyrics, which
was pretty

1817
01:50:23,550 --> 01:50:30,090
Adam Curry: nice. Hearing that
you guys have a top 40 May I

1818
01:50:30,090 --> 01:50:34,410
just say that as soon as we can
as soon as possible. I would

1819
01:50:34,410 --> 01:50:38,310
love to do the wavelength top 40
Show.

1820
01:50:39,630 --> 01:50:41,940
Michael Rhee: Countdown Oh,
yeah. Okay, some style,

1821
01:50:42,000 --> 01:50:45,810
Adam Curry: everybody. Y'all I
would love if as long as we got

1822
01:50:46,290 --> 01:50:50,190
with value blocks. I will do
that sounds so cool. I will do

1823
01:50:50,190 --> 01:50:54,330
it. I love to do it. And I am.
I'm excited about that idea.

1824
01:50:55,110 --> 01:50:58,620
Dave Jones: Can we get a wave
like foo bar Friday? Yes,

1825
01:50:58,620 --> 01:50:59,100
exactly.

1826
01:50:59,130 --> 01:51:02,820
Adam Curry: Exactly. Exactly. Be
very, very cool. And I think

1827
01:51:02,820 --> 01:51:05,880
that would that would hate
people love charts, man. If we

1828
01:51:05,880 --> 01:51:09,480
could do something like that.
And then definitely, I'm all in.

1829
01:51:10,140 --> 01:51:13,200
Michael Rhee: Yeah, I grew up
listening to Casey's top 40

1830
01:51:13,230 --> 01:51:14,340
Every weekend

1831
01:51:14,460 --> 01:51:19,890
Adam Curry: now it's a long
distance dedication. Alright

1832
01:51:19,890 --> 01:51:22,530
guys, have a great weekend day
my brother have a good weekend.

1833
01:51:22,800 --> 01:51:25,050
You too, man. All right, chat
room. Thank you all very much

1834
01:51:25,050 --> 01:51:28,320
for joining the boardroom of
podcasting. 2.0 we return next

1835
01:51:28,320 --> 01:51:31,620
week once again to bring you all
the best in podcasting.

1836
01:51:48,660 --> 01:51:53,250
Unknown: You have been listening
to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast

1837
01:51:53,250 --> 01:51:59,340
index.org For more information
podcast. Oh my god.