1 00:00:00,930 --> 00:00:06,300 Adam Curry: podcasting 2.0 for October 13 2023, episode 150 and 2 00:00:06,300 --> 00:00:12,780 Unification everybody Welcome once again to podcasting 2.0 3 00:00:13,020 --> 00:00:17,130 This is where it all goes down. It is the official board meeting 4 00:00:17,130 --> 00:00:20,430 of podcasting 2.0 the future the president than now we're 5 00:00:20,430 --> 00:00:23,790 podcasting. And of course we are the only boardroom that meets on 6 00:00:23,790 --> 00:00:27,270 Friday the 13th I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas 7 00:00:27,270 --> 00:00:30,120 Hill Country and in Alabama, the man who kills roosters, with his 8 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:32,670 bare hands, say hello to my friend on the other end of the 9 00:00:32,670 --> 00:00:36,510 ladies and gentlemen, the only Mr. Dave Jones. 10 00:00:38,220 --> 00:00:39,600 Dave Jones: Spencer said The wait is 11 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:47,310 Adam Curry: over. Hello, hello. Hello, hello. Hey, Dave, how you 12 00:00:47,310 --> 00:00:48,360 doing, brother? How you doing? 13 00:00:48,870 --> 00:00:50,160 Dave Jones: I'm good. I'm reading the mute button little 14 00:00:50,160 --> 00:00:52,590 bit as partaking my beef milkshake. 15 00:00:52,919 --> 00:00:58,049 Adam Curry: Oh, oh, are you? You have a quick quick turnaround 16 00:00:58,049 --> 00:01:02,249 today. You still have a lot of work at the day job, I guess. 17 00:01:02,249 --> 00:01:02,549 Right? 18 00:01:03,270 --> 00:01:06,090 Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah. But I'm good. I'm good. Okay, I'm 19 00:01:06,090 --> 00:01:08,400 hanging in there. I will be a much happier person next week, 20 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:08,550 though. 21 00:01:10,109 --> 00:01:12,659 Adam Curry: So Well, I actually I'm a happier person now because 22 00:01:12,659 --> 00:01:18,449 I did my taxes. Wednesday. I'm a late file I pay in April, but I 23 00:01:18,449 --> 00:01:19,919 file I'm a late filer. 24 00:01:20,370 --> 00:01:22,770 Dave Jones: I like how you like how you just classify yourself 25 00:01:22,770 --> 00:01:27,180 as that I'm a I'm a late filing late filer. Just a heads up? 26 00:01:27,210 --> 00:01:29,580 Yeah. Everybody at accounting firms hate you. 27 00:01:30,689 --> 00:01:33,059 Adam Curry: But that's why I don't use an accounting firm. I 28 00:01:33,059 --> 00:01:34,709 guess I do it myself. 29 00:01:35,219 --> 00:01:37,499 Dave Jones: Okay. You just hate yourself? No. 30 00:01:37,709 --> 00:01:39,959 Adam Curry: Well, I don't know. And I have to say, Well, the 31 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,569 problem is I have to wait on other stuff. I have to wait on 32 00:01:42,569 --> 00:01:45,809 other people. And you know, because other K ones that come 33 00:01:45,809 --> 00:01:49,619 in from my wife and just all kinds of stuff. So they never no 34 00:01:49,619 --> 00:01:52,259 one ever gets it on time. Which is why I understand why 35 00:01:52,259 --> 00:01:55,979 accounting firms hate people who do that. But I'm a TurboTax guy. 36 00:01:56,009 --> 00:01:58,739 I love it. I love sitting there and it gives that little 37 00:01:58,739 --> 00:02:02,669 counter. It says you owe $5 million. Okay, hold on a second. 38 00:02:02,669 --> 00:02:06,119 Let me see what can I deduct here? Then it goes. Good. It 39 00:02:06,119 --> 00:02:08,849 goes down. Okay. Well, let me see. But there must be something 40 00:02:08,849 --> 00:02:12,119 else. And then it pops up a little dialog. Hey, we can get 41 00:02:12,119 --> 00:02:14,549 you more deductions. Yes, yes. Yes. Click Click. What can you 42 00:02:14,549 --> 00:02:17,699 get me? There might veteran? Can I can I claim myself as a 43 00:02:17,699 --> 00:02:20,189 parent? No, I guess not. Not today? Am I a victim of 44 00:02:20,189 --> 00:02:20,849 hurricanes? 45 00:02:22,380 --> 00:02:25,260 Dave Jones: My favorite part of TurboTax is the thing at the 46 00:02:25,260 --> 00:02:29,010 very end. That's like the audit protection scam. Oh, yeah. No, 47 00:02:29,010 --> 00:02:29,430 I'm 48 00:02:29,429 --> 00:02:30,719 Adam Curry: all in on the audit protections. 49 00:02:31,470 --> 00:02:34,260 Dave Jones: It's like, do you be Be careful, you be careful, you 50 00:02:34,260 --> 00:02:37,890 may get audited. So you probably want to buy our audit protection 51 00:02:37,890 --> 00:02:39,330 service. Well, like, 52 00:02:39,389 --> 00:02:43,349 Adam Curry: let me break. Let me tell you. I have always 53 00:02:43,349 --> 00:02:47,939 purchased the I think they might it was $40. Now it's $60 audit 54 00:02:47,939 --> 00:02:51,899 protection scam. And the end of one year I got audited, which 55 00:02:51,899 --> 00:02:56,129 was nine years ago. Um, do believe me? I was very happy 56 00:02:56,129 --> 00:02:59,669 ahead. So what did they do for you? They give you a lawyer. 57 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,000 Dave Jones: I had to give you one. Yeah. 58 00:03:03,030 --> 00:03:05,280 Adam Curry: So I had a full time lawyer. I could call them all 59 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:09,510 the time he he came out actually to meet with me and the and the 60 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:11,670 and the IRS agent. Oh, yeah. 61 00:03:11,939 --> 00:03:16,019 Dave Jones: I thought you're just saying he came out a little 62 00:03:16,019 --> 00:03:18,869 odd relationship with a tax lawyer? 63 00:03:19,020 --> 00:03:22,380 Adam Curry: I it's not, you know, it's I mean, I understand 64 00:03:22,380 --> 00:03:27,990 the scary meter that says, Oh, you have a very high chance of 65 00:03:27,990 --> 00:03:31,680 getting audited? Well, I have that regardless, because I am 66 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:35,490 self employed. I have k ones. I have a seat schedule. See? 67 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:40,530 Dave Jones: Oh, you're just begging for it. On paper, you're 68 00:03:40,530 --> 00:03:42,990 just they have a target with your face on it. And the IRS. 69 00:03:42,990 --> 00:03:43,170 All 70 00:03:43,199 --> 00:03:45,419 Adam Curry: right, well, every 10 years is when it's my turn. 71 00:03:45,449 --> 00:03:50,909 And it was a that was 2015. And it really, really sucks. But I 72 00:03:50,909 --> 00:03:55,199 mean, I'm just happy. I didn't have to pay in it. I've had 20 73 00:03:55,199 --> 00:03:58,139 years ago, when the IRS showed up in my business with their 74 00:03:58,139 --> 00:04:02,849 guns, literally with guns. We've been looking for you. 75 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:06,600 Dave Jones: We depend a lot of a lot of people don't know that. 76 00:04:07,260 --> 00:04:11,400 If you're an American citizen. Yes, leave the country for some 77 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:15,630 amount of time, let's say yours. You can't you don't just stop 78 00:04:15,630 --> 00:04:18,540 paying taxes. You're supposed to keep writing a check what No, 79 00:04:18,540 --> 00:04:19,650 you don't they will find 80 00:04:19,649 --> 00:04:21,719 Adam Curry: you have to file you don't have to you don't have to 81 00:04:21,719 --> 00:04:26,579 write a check. You have to file file. Yes. And my. And my 82 00:04:26,579 --> 00:04:29,129 accountants had not filed even though they knew exactly what 83 00:04:29,129 --> 00:04:31,379 they should have been doing. And this is when I had a lot of 84 00:04:31,379 --> 00:04:34,529 money back in the day. And so then I come in after you know, 85 00:04:34,619 --> 00:04:37,649 after not living in in the States for like 10 years and 86 00:04:37,649 --> 00:04:41,159 they Hey, and I start showing up on payroll. Man, they put me 87 00:04:41,159 --> 00:04:46,139 through the wringer. And that cost me $40,000 In lawyers fees. 88 00:04:46,619 --> 00:04:50,159 Ouch. You know, accountants and lawyers. So I was very happy 89 00:04:50,159 --> 00:04:56,459 with it with my $40 lawyer. I mean, I wouldn't say he was a an 90 00:04:56,459 --> 00:05:00,659 attack dog by any means. But at least he could he I channeled 91 00:05:00,659 --> 00:05:03,839 the communication between me and the IRS. So this is more like 92 00:05:03,840 --> 00:05:05,880 Dave Jones: the court appointed lawyer that you get when you're 93 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:06,600 trying to you know, 94 00:05:08,580 --> 00:05:11,520 Adam Curry: step above that a little step above it, but yeah, 95 00:05:11,550 --> 00:05:12,780 whatever. I have 96 00:05:12,780 --> 00:05:16,320 Dave Jones: many accountants in my life, it's somehow my family 97 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,080 and my day job and everything is just dominated by accountants 98 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:26,670 and accounting. And I will I will say that I predict that you 99 00:05:26,670 --> 00:05:30,090 will not be in the next decade, you will not be audited again. 100 00:05:31,590 --> 00:05:37,650 Oh, really? I just think they're they are they the IRS is so hard 101 00:05:37,650 --> 00:05:42,210 up for people to work. I don't I think all of the all of the 102 00:05:42,210 --> 00:05:45,210 audits are going to be all the in person audits and everything. 103 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,660 They're all going to be just, they're just going to be a 104 00:05:48,660 --> 00:05:51,240 thing, a thing of the past mostly everything. They're going 105 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:53,970 to try to claim their get their money back through take, like 106 00:05:53,970 --> 00:05:59,160 technical needs, you know, closing loopholes in regulations 107 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:01,350 and stuff. They're just they just known that people will not 108 00:06:01,350 --> 00:06:03,240 cannot hire enough and I understand that. But they 109 00:06:03,270 --> 00:06:06,150 Adam Curry: they have literally said they're going after LLCs 110 00:06:06,150 --> 00:06:07,020 partnerships. 111 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:10,410 Dave Jones: That that is going to be Yeah, I think there's it's 112 00:06:10,410 --> 00:06:14,580 all going to be automated. Where where you're gonna have if an 113 00:06:14,580 --> 00:06:17,910 LLC is a member of another LLC, be a trigger. 114 00:06:17,940 --> 00:06:20,520 Adam Curry: I see. Yeah. And that should be a trigger, quite 115 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:21,150 honestly. 116 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:23,610 Dave Jones: Yeah. Because you're gonna have things like they're 117 00:06:23,610 --> 00:06:28,560 going after stuff like the environmental easement, scams 118 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:28,680 and 119 00:06:28,950 --> 00:06:32,190 Adam Curry: yeah, in the end the paycheck protection program. 120 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:33,030 Yeah, if 121 00:06:33,029 --> 00:06:35,939 Dave Jones: you have an LLC that has more than more than 100 122 00:06:35,939 --> 00:06:38,879 members, yeah, just stuff like that. Yeah. Yep. 123 00:06:40,470 --> 00:06:45,900 Adam Curry: Um, I had I had some I had some Oh, wow. Moments this 124 00:06:45,900 --> 00:06:51,660 past week. Some some big some big Oh, wow. Moments. Well, good 125 00:06:51,750 --> 00:06:57,090 about Yeah, exactly. That I went Oh, wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. And it 126 00:06:57,090 --> 00:07:04,710 had it started on Tuesday by I was 2000 miles over due for my 127 00:07:04,710 --> 00:07:08,850 10,000 mile car thing. The first big service 128 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:10,530 Dave Jones: Adam curry, 129 00:07:10,649 --> 00:07:13,379 Adam Curry: which I financed actually, I find the answer 130 00:07:13,379 --> 00:07:18,779 right into into my into my loan. But the car was very mad at me. 131 00:07:19,319 --> 00:07:23,879 Yeah, it was like, shall we call for an appointment? I can call 132 00:07:23,879 --> 00:07:26,999 for you right now. lights flashing on and off, you know, 133 00:07:26,999 --> 00:07:30,539 dashboard lit up like 181 Yeah, all these TV. Oh, yeah. All 134 00:07:30,539 --> 00:07:34,499 kinds of warnings. Oh, man. You probably your car's gonna spin 135 00:07:34,499 --> 00:07:36,869 out of control. You're gonna die if you don't get this thing in. 136 00:07:37,259 --> 00:07:41,549 Oh, yeah. So that means I had to go to Austin. And I also be I 137 00:07:41,549 --> 00:07:45,119 went to my hairdresser because I had the same one in Austin. I 138 00:07:45,209 --> 00:07:48,149 know we've been friends for 12 years I just love her and she 139 00:07:48,149 --> 00:07:51,659 always has the latest Austin gossip for me which is usually 140 00:07:51,899 --> 00:07:56,789 off the hook and great no agenda show material. So I had to you 141 00:07:56,789 --> 00:07:59,819 know, I started off I'm listening to I'm listening to a 142 00:07:59,819 --> 00:08:03,179 sermon from some pasture and then I'm like yeah, I'm getting 143 00:08:03,209 --> 00:08:06,389 into I was listening to beautiful outlaw audio book I 144 00:08:06,389 --> 00:08:11,399 just love that time alone in the car with this just nobody is can 145 00:08:11,429 --> 00:08:14,369 distract me or anything the car almost drives itself you know 146 00:08:14,369 --> 00:08:16,379 it'd be got to keep your hands on it's not it by the way. It's 147 00:08:16,379 --> 00:08:19,859 not an electric vehicle. But all cars kind of have a co pilot 148 00:08:19,859 --> 00:08:20,549 thing these days 149 00:08:20,580 --> 00:08:22,920 Dave Jones: my car my truck drives itself if you're going 150 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:24,000 downhill your 151 00:08:24,839 --> 00:08:28,289 Adam Curry: work. Yeah. Your cars the only your truck will be 152 00:08:28,289 --> 00:08:30,719 the only thing left on the road after the Armageddon everything 153 00:08:30,719 --> 00:08:33,329 else will just stop and that's actually hard part of the part 154 00:08:33,329 --> 00:08:35,459 of my big oh wow moment. 155 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:38,460 Dave Jones: And I was roaches, Velveeta cheese and muttrah 156 00:08:38,490 --> 00:08:40,950 those are the three things that will exist after the fact 157 00:08:40,950 --> 00:08:41,940 guarantee and people 158 00:08:41,969 --> 00:08:43,919 Adam Curry: your truck will actually drive on Velveeta 159 00:08:43,919 --> 00:08:44,609 cheese when it 160 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:46,770 Dave Jones: is convertible. Yeah. Is 161 00:08:46,770 --> 00:08:50,700 Adam Curry: it diesel? No. Oh, man, that's too bad. Because you 162 00:08:50,700 --> 00:08:53,250 could melt cheese and it would and it would drive on that 163 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:55,740 Dave Jones: but it could it can't we can go with gas in a 164 00:08:55,740 --> 00:08:57,450 pinch. You know? 165 00:08:57,690 --> 00:09:00,090 Adam Curry: gasifiers baby. They're the future 166 00:09:00,450 --> 00:09:03,090 Dave Jones: from trailer trailer mounted would would be it's 167 00:09:03,090 --> 00:09:04,020 called the gasifier? 168 00:09:04,020 --> 00:09:06,900 Adam Curry: Yeah. They use it in the during the Depression. 169 00:09:07,590 --> 00:09:10,080 Dave Jones: It did which to the great embarrassment of my wife, 170 00:09:10,140 --> 00:09:11,130 but it will work? 171 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:13,380 Adam Curry: No, because she'll be on the back shoveling wood 172 00:09:13,380 --> 00:09:16,170 into the gasifier as you're driving along. She'll have a 173 00:09:16,170 --> 00:09:18,630 job. Baby, you 174 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:22,890 Dave Jones: remind me to tell you my misogyny story one day. 175 00:09:23,250 --> 00:09:25,920 Okay. This is not for the show, not for the board meeting. Oh, 176 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:27,900 no, it's for the boy. So you can be for the board meeting. But I 177 00:09:27,900 --> 00:09:29,700 don't want to interrupt your flow though. Okay, 178 00:09:29,730 --> 00:09:35,700 Adam Curry: well, so, and I get this message. Mio. And I'm like, 179 00:09:37,110 --> 00:09:40,440 this thing that I saw the Smosh probably listen to that. And it 180 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:45,270 was an interview with Yanis Varoufakis. And Yanis Varoufakis 181 00:09:45,300 --> 00:09:48,630 is actually a guy I kind of never liked. He was for a brief 182 00:09:48,630 --> 00:09:53,340 time about five or six months he was the the finance minister for 183 00:09:53,340 --> 00:09:58,980 Greece. And he not a job anybody wants. Well, this was in 2010 I 184 00:09:58,980 --> 00:10:04,170 think when the banks essentially bankrupted Greece. And then all 185 00:10:04,170 --> 00:10:07,050 of Northern Europe hated them. I mean, people were so mad at 186 00:10:07,050 --> 00:10:10,230 Greece because you guys, you're all the fault of all our 187 00:10:10,230 --> 00:10:12,870 financial problems and people going into Greek restaurants in 188 00:10:12,870 --> 00:10:15,510 Amsterdam and not paying saying, Yeah, you owe me that. I mean, 189 00:10:15,510 --> 00:10:19,020 it was horrible. It was horrible. And Yanis Varoufakis 190 00:10:19,020 --> 00:10:22,560 is an economist, Professor of economy, you've probably seen 191 00:10:22,560 --> 00:10:26,430 them bald head, you know, really kind of deep voice, motorcycle 192 00:10:26,430 --> 00:10:31,380 kind of guy. Then and he's a devout socialist, he, I think he 193 00:10:31,380 --> 00:10:33,960 calls himself a Marxist, but in the most traditional sense of 194 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,750 the word, whatever that means. Whatever that means. 195 00:10:37,590 --> 00:10:41,670 Dave Jones: I love the love the, the degrees and the specificity 196 00:10:41,670 --> 00:10:44,490 by which Marxist proclaim their Marxism. It's, oh, there's 197 00:10:44,490 --> 00:10:48,240 always caveats is I'm a Marxist, but I'm not. I'm not that kind 198 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:51,030 of Marxist. I'm a, you know, I'm a fourpoint. Marxist or 199 00:10:51,030 --> 00:10:51,870 whatever, you know, 200 00:10:51,870 --> 00:10:53,520 Adam Curry: he was actually like, I love Hegel. But, you 201 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:58,110 know, I'm a Marxist. And it's like, anyway, so, but, you know, 202 00:10:58,110 --> 00:11:01,530 he's done a lot of he's written books. And he's, I always felt 203 00:11:01,530 --> 00:11:04,650 he's kind of an elitist, douche. But he's written a new book 204 00:11:04,650 --> 00:11:10,680 called techno feudalism. And, yeah, you know, you're having 205 00:11:10,680 --> 00:11:14,070 the same response to vor icad. I couldn't get him to think about 206 00:11:14,070 --> 00:11:15,330 it either. Well, 207 00:11:15,630 --> 00:11:19,710 Dave Jones: it's just the just the name is just so mean. You 208 00:11:19,710 --> 00:11:21,660 already it's like you can already imagine 209 00:11:22,050 --> 00:11:23,760 Adam Curry: what do you when you when you hear the techno 210 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:26,790 feudalism? What what do you think the book is about? 211 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:33,360 Dave Jones: Ai? No, no. Okay. All right. Well, I'm wrong. I'm 212 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:35,940 willing to get you you said that he was an elitist douche, and 213 00:11:35,940 --> 00:11:39,780 I'm making notes as you have. I have an elitist douche 214 00:11:39,780 --> 00:11:45,930 checklist. Oh, yeah. And I'm making notes. I'm like, Finance 215 00:11:45,930 --> 00:11:46,980 Minister of Greece. 216 00:11:47,910 --> 00:11:52,260 Adam Curry: Yes. Motorcycle deck, bald head check. Yeah, 217 00:11:52,710 --> 00:11:56,670 Dave Jones: really low voice like Klaus Schwab. I mean, we're 218 00:11:56,670 --> 00:11:58,380 hitting all cylinders right here. So go ahead. 219 00:11:58,410 --> 00:12:01,170 Adam Curry: So I'm going to play a little bit from one of Listen, 220 00:12:01,380 --> 00:12:03,660 anyway, it was great. I was at the at the DIA to wait three 221 00:12:03,660 --> 00:12:07,260 hours. So they have a cappuccino bar. So I sit at my laptop, I'm 222 00:12:07,260 --> 00:12:11,400 doing all my email and listen to these things. And, and this is 223 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:16,920 just one example of what he says is techno feudalism. And it kind 224 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:21,570 of hit home for me about the stuff we're doing here at 225 00:12:21,570 --> 00:12:26,220 podcasts index. And, and this, this band of thieves and robbers 226 00:12:26,220 --> 00:12:30,750 that that are surrounded around, you know, this project, this 227 00:12:30,750 --> 00:12:36,480 podcasting, 2.0, RSS, and podcast index, and apps and 228 00:12:37,680 --> 00:12:40,290 wallets and all this stuff. So this is just one minute he 229 00:12:40,290 --> 00:12:44,010 explains a version of techno feudalism. But what has happened 230 00:12:44,010 --> 00:12:48,750 is, if you're Jeff Bezos, if you are the owner of Google, of 231 00:12:48,750 --> 00:12:53,490 Apple, of if you're Elon Musk, then you own this new form of 232 00:12:53,910 --> 00:12:59,490 cloud capital, which allows you to extract from the rest of 233 00:12:59,490 --> 00:13:03,870 society from proletarians. But from everyone else, as well, 234 00:13:04,650 --> 00:13:09,240 huge quantities of rents and surpluses in a manner that 235 00:13:09,270 --> 00:13:12,990 reconstitute is a form of feudalism. The difference is 236 00:13:12,990 --> 00:13:17,670 that instead of the original feudalism, which is a system 237 00:13:17,670 --> 00:13:22,140 based on private ownership of land, which produces rent, now, 238 00:13:22,140 --> 00:13:25,320 it's private ownership of the clouds of cloud capital, because 239 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:27,360 the cloud is capital, right? It's not some cloud up in the 240 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:31,080 sky in the sky, which yields again, a form of rent, every 241 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,980 time you buy something from amazon.com 40% of what you pay, 242 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:38,370 doesn't go to the capitalist who is selling you that stuff. It 243 00:13:38,370 --> 00:13:41,970 goes to Jeff Bezos, that's a cloud rent and he is a new form 244 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:46,890 of feudal lord. So when I listen to this, I immediately thought 245 00:13:46,890 --> 00:13:51,840 about Apple via we call it the apple tax, but it's really Apple 246 00:13:51,870 --> 00:13:54,720 saying, Hey, you want to be on our platform, we forced you into 247 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:58,080 apps. Now, if you want to make any money, that's fine, you can 248 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:02,130 make money, but you got to pay us 30%, which is pretty high 249 00:14:02,130 --> 00:14:07,380 rent. Yeah, Spotify tried to do this, but they didn't really own 250 00:14:07,380 --> 00:14:09,990 their capital. The record companies own their capital of 251 00:14:09,990 --> 00:14:13,170 the record. Companies don't care about what they're doing with 252 00:14:13,170 --> 00:14:16,320 podcasting. In fact, it was their own desperate attempt to 253 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:20,100 make some money outside of the music business by taking this 254 00:14:20,100 --> 00:14:23,790 free content. But make no mistake, they're charging for 255 00:14:23,790 --> 00:14:27,600 your free content. If someone pays $5 a month, or I don't 256 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:30,840 think it's $5 anymore, it's probably seven pays for via 257 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:34,170 Yeah, you're paying for your music. And I'm just looking at 258 00:14:34,170 --> 00:14:37,710 musicians. Now. They're, they're in essence taking money, whether 259 00:14:37,710 --> 00:14:40,710 someone listens to your show or not to your music or not, to 260 00:14:40,710 --> 00:14:45,870 your show or not. This is in a way what Apple had become, 261 00:14:45,870 --> 00:14:48,180 although they never charge money for it, but hey, you want a 262 00:14:48,180 --> 00:14:51,270 subscription? Yeah, we got subscription services for you. 263 00:14:51,450 --> 00:14:58,380 30% We're gonna take that right off the top of all of these, and 264 00:14:58,380 --> 00:15:03,240 it's not just money. Bye, guys. Go, they have tremendous what 265 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:07,830 Varoufakis here would call cloud capital, because you actually 266 00:15:07,830 --> 00:15:12,270 feed back your data to them in many different ways. Now it's 267 00:15:12,270 --> 00:15:14,790 like time, talent and treasure, thank you very much. Thank you 268 00:15:14,790 --> 00:15:17,790 for all your data, we're gonna suck that all up. And they turn 269 00:15:17,790 --> 00:15:22,170 around and sell you sell, sell, you know, your own body, your 270 00:15:22,170 --> 00:15:26,580 own behaviors to other people. And, you know, there's reasons 271 00:15:26,580 --> 00:15:32,070 why this, you know, that there's no Twitter in the EU. You know, 272 00:15:32,070 --> 00:15:36,030 there's no Google of the EU, there's only these massive 273 00:15:36,030 --> 00:15:39,450 companies, which, for all kinds of understandable reasons have 274 00:15:39,450 --> 00:15:43,380 become, in a way or overlords and control us to the degree 275 00:15:43,380 --> 00:15:49,890 now, that if you look at the digital services agreement, in 276 00:15:49,890 --> 00:15:56,580 the EU, if you look at the Online Safety Act in the UK, if 277 00:15:56,580 --> 00:16:00,330 you look at what Canada is doing with their CRTC, I think it is 278 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,840 beyond their Yeah, you must register. This is all because of 279 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,530 these platforms. And these platforms have so much power 280 00:16:07,530 --> 00:16:11,700 they bring in so much. Why Why does the EU Sue Google and Apple 281 00:16:11,700 --> 00:16:15,600 and want to sue the Twitter ex all the time, because they have 282 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,780 no way of extracting any money from them? They don't get any 283 00:16:18,780 --> 00:16:22,200 tax revenue suits. Yeah, they don't get any tax revenue. 284 00:16:22,230 --> 00:16:25,470 That's all, you know, fussed away in all kinds of different 285 00:16:25,470 --> 00:16:30,270 manners. And as I'm listening to this, I'm saying like, this is 286 00:16:30,270 --> 00:16:36,810 exactly why podcasting is still what it is today. And has not 287 00:16:36,810 --> 00:16:40,620 been sucked up into some. And then Google's still trying it. 288 00:16:40,770 --> 00:16:45,000 They are once again trying because yeah, you can, I guess 289 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:50,010 add your RSS feed into into Google mute YouTube music. And 290 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:54,330 and in a way, you know, I guess it's the it's a way to 291 00:16:54,330 --> 00:16:57,000 distribute your podcast, but they are, they won't let you 292 00:16:57,030 --> 00:17:02,250 have ads. They'll extract all value from your, from your 293 00:17:02,250 --> 00:17:07,560 community. The in player stats, you know, that. I mean, once 294 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:10,560 you're in the app, they even know if you're listening or 295 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:14,160 watching something laying down walking standing up in the car. 296 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,610 I mean, they know all this stuff. Yeah. So they are taking 297 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:22,890 all of all the capital. And I realized that what we've created 298 00:17:22,890 --> 00:17:28,200 with podcast index. And with value for value, it's a critical 299 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:31,980 piece, a crit, this is where Varoufakis, as a socialist 300 00:17:32,010 --> 00:17:37,950 doesn't quite get it. We have a collective cloud. Him and the 301 00:17:37,950 --> 00:17:41,730 members of the cloud, the participants of our cloud, let's 302 00:17:41,730 --> 00:17:47,730 just call that podcast index. They we are distributing value 303 00:17:48,450 --> 00:17:53,700 all throughout this system in and out in the form of the 304 00:17:53,700 --> 00:17:58,950 easiest form is Satoshis. And the more I look at this model, 305 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:04,140 the more I see what we are doing here is just an easy way. 306 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:08,340 Because it's podcasting and it has a certain cachet, it has an 307 00:18:08,340 --> 00:18:13,890 independent nature. There. Thank Thank God, we have hundreds if 308 00:18:13,890 --> 00:18:17,310 not worldwide, 1000s of independent hosting companies. 309 00:18:18,300 --> 00:18:26,250 There's ways to host yourself, this is the only the only future 310 00:18:26,250 --> 00:18:31,500 for any type of media distribution. The only way 311 00:18:31,500 --> 00:18:35,520 forward, I don't care what would noster says and this and that. 312 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:40,050 And that's it's a great idea, but they can't reinvent 20 313 00:18:40,050 --> 00:18:45,300 years. 24 years really, of development and infrastructure, 314 00:18:45,300 --> 00:18:48,780 which is solid, it's just solid throughout all the pipes. It's 315 00:18:48,780 --> 00:18:49,440 there. 316 00:18:50,190 --> 00:18:52,380 Dave Jones: Yeah, it's established. It's an it's 317 00:18:52,380 --> 00:18:53,130 entrenched, 318 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,680 Adam Curry: it's completely entrenched. It's an it's 319 00:18:55,680 --> 00:19:00,720 completely I mean, even if you look now. And so this is for a 320 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,690 number of things, it's for unfettered distribution, let's 321 00:19:03,690 --> 00:19:05,790 just you can call it free speech, if you want but how 322 00:19:05,790 --> 00:19:10,590 about unfettered distribution, I don't even believe in censorship 323 00:19:10,590 --> 00:19:15,240 resistant as a as a term. I mean, this is one to one, one to 324 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:20,310 many. And the it's it's it's unfettered, there's, there's no 325 00:19:20,310 --> 00:19:24,870 interference, there's no model that these big institutions or 326 00:19:24,870 --> 00:19:30,690 governments can come up with to disrupt the RSS distribution at 327 00:19:30,690 --> 00:19:35,400 all. If you look now at the DSA dashboard. 328 00:19:37,319 --> 00:19:39,509 Dave Jones: What is that by the way? Can you just 329 00:19:39,510 --> 00:19:44,820 Adam Curry: Yes, so did the Digital Services Act is let me 330 00:19:44,820 --> 00:19:50,310 just bring it up here. The Digital Services Act is the 331 00:19:50,310 --> 00:19:56,010 regulation in Europe that I'm gonna bring it up where I have 332 00:19:56,010 --> 00:19:57,030 this man here, so 333 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,200 Dave Jones: this is great. I just saw Just search for Digital 334 00:20:01,230 --> 00:20:05,040 Services Act, get the first link in the in the in the Google 335 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:10,050 result. And it takes me to the Digital Services Act package 336 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:15,930 page. And it has a promo video on here. And in the promo video 337 00:20:15,930 --> 00:20:19,980 the thumbnail says, protecting fundamental rights and freedom 338 00:20:19,980 --> 00:20:25,260 of expression. This is such a classic government like 339 00:20:25,650 --> 00:20:30,540 reversal, we're restricting your rights and freedom of expression 340 00:20:30,990 --> 00:20:32,940 by to protecting your rights and freedoms 341 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:35,879 Adam Curry: to protect your freedom. Yes, exactly. Protect 342 00:20:35,879 --> 00:20:39,839 your freedom. So the Digital Services Act is this set of 343 00:20:39,839 --> 00:20:44,039 regulations. It boils down to this hate speech is not allowed. 344 00:20:44,339 --> 00:20:49,559 Violence is not allowed. riling somebody up for violence is not 345 00:20:49,559 --> 00:20:54,329 allowed. Disinformation is not allowed. And they're now going 346 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,899 after all the platforms. The top ones are tick tock Pinterest, 347 00:20:57,899 --> 00:21:01,469 Amazon, Facebook, Google, then ex. 348 00:21:02,339 --> 00:21:05,309 Dave Jones: Pinterest is the one that Pinterest uses me porn 349 00:21:05,339 --> 00:21:08,489 Adam Curry: porn. Pinterest is mainly porn. And so they really 350 00:21:08,519 --> 00:21:10,469 Oh yeah, they have these categories violence, 351 00:21:10,469 --> 00:21:12,809 intellectual property infringement, pornography or 352 00:21:12,809 --> 00:21:15,719 sexualized content as a difference. If so, you know, 353 00:21:15,719 --> 00:21:18,509 what is pornography? I don't know. But when I see it all No. 354 00:21:18,929 --> 00:21:23,999 Yeah. Okay. And, and so they are going after the platforms, 355 00:21:24,629 --> 00:21:29,039 requiring the platforms to delete video and I can go into 356 00:21:29,309 --> 00:21:32,849 all the keywords and categories, I can go in here for a second. I 357 00:21:32,849 --> 00:21:36,899 can give you an example. Animal Welfare data protection and 358 00:21:36,899 --> 00:21:41,999 privacy violations, ie legal or harmful speech. Intellectual 359 00:21:41,999 --> 00:21:45,689 Property infringement, negative effects on civic discourse or 360 00:21:45,689 --> 00:21:48,989 election, non consensual behavior, pornography or 361 00:21:48,989 --> 00:21:53,069 sexualized content protection of minors, risk for public security 362 00:21:53,069 --> 00:21:57,479 scams and or fraud, self harm, scope of platform service, 363 00:21:58,199 --> 00:22:01,949 unsafe and illegal products. That's where Amazon comes in, 364 00:22:02,279 --> 00:22:07,379 and violence. So these are all the top categories that are 365 00:22:07,379 --> 00:22:13,019 being tracked by this digital services. The DSM Digital 366 00:22:13,019 --> 00:22:18,989 Service Act transparency database. So in the eu is eu 367 00:22:18,989 --> 00:22:24,599 only how many takedowns? Because that's what they're tracking has 368 00:22:24,659 --> 00:22:28,799 statements of reasons for takedown per hour do you think 369 00:22:28,799 --> 00:22:32,399 are occurring right now on across platforms? In the 370 00:22:32,399 --> 00:22:35,699 European Union? per hour per hour? 371 00:22:37,140 --> 00:22:41,100 Dave Jones: Let me say only Okay, so you get supposedly 372 00:22:41,100 --> 00:22:47,040 Facebook has banned, let's just say a billion users. Unless 373 00:22:47,940 --> 00:22:50,010 Adam Curry: I'll tell you that tick tock is at the top of the 374 00:22:50,010 --> 00:22:53,100 list, actually, with takedowns. Interestingly enough, 375 00:22:53,579 --> 00:22:56,189 Dave Jones: tick tock, yeah, well, that may, you know, that 376 00:22:56,189 --> 00:22:59,129 kind of makes some sense. How many users did tick tock dab? Do 377 00:22:59,129 --> 00:23:01,139 we know how many monthly and as there's no 378 00:23:01,140 --> 00:23:03,510 Adam Curry: idea that mean, but just what do you think would be 379 00:23:03,510 --> 00:23:07,620 a reasonable number to be to be flagging or taking down per 380 00:23:07,620 --> 00:23:09,210 hour? In the EU? 381 00:23:09,660 --> 00:23:12,960 Dave Jones: Just see is only is only the EU? I would I would it 382 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:20,280 would probably have to be like 10,000 10,000 383 00:23:21,059 --> 00:23:28,169 Adam Curry: per hour? Currently 147,202 takedowns per hour? 384 00:23:30,210 --> 00:23:33,420 Dave Jones: That doesn't even seem possible. Like what could 385 00:23:33,420 --> 00:23:34,710 this possibly be? 386 00:23:34,770 --> 00:23:37,530 Adam Curry: At all those things I just mentioned, basically, 387 00:23:37,650 --> 00:23:41,820 stuff the government doesn't like. So usually, you said that 388 00:23:41,820 --> 00:23:45,060 your yourself best when you have a big red button. It's hard not 389 00:23:45,060 --> 00:23:45,690 to press it. 390 00:23:46,500 --> 00:23:49,740 Dave Jones: Yeah. When you bid when you build a thing, like 391 00:23:49,740 --> 00:23:52,710 when I think we we did the statics we did this thought 392 00:23:52,710 --> 00:23:55,740 experiment when when Gigi was on the show, and I was trying to 393 00:23:55,740 --> 00:23:58,830 make a point. You know, the thought experiment goes like 394 00:23:58,830 --> 00:24:04,350 this, you know, you build a system. They give let's let's 395 00:24:04,350 --> 00:24:08,880 say the government builds a system where every home in the 396 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:14,340 country has a lock on as a lock on the door. And this lock is 397 00:24:14,340 --> 00:24:20,160 remotely controllable by a big red button in a government 398 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:24,270 office somewhere. And they said well, this is only this is only 399 00:24:24,270 --> 00:24:27,570 in case of emergencies, that we're going to use this button 400 00:24:27,570 --> 00:24:32,280 and it's going to lock everybody inside their homes and you build 401 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:36,150 it and forevermore you're just you're just staring at that 402 00:24:36,150 --> 00:24:42,570 button. You're like man, you know it the definition of 403 00:24:42,570 --> 00:24:47,100 emergency starts to creep lower and lower and lower when you 404 00:24:47,100 --> 00:24:52,260 have the ability to do something like this. Just the point is 405 00:24:52,290 --> 00:24:55,050 that the point of the thought experiment is just to say that 406 00:24:55,800 --> 00:25:00,630 when you if you allow the capability to be built You're 407 00:25:00,630 --> 00:25:03,240 allowed you are you are forcing its usage. 408 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,500 Adam Curry: I have the here's the full list of things that are 409 00:25:07,500 --> 00:25:12,060 being taken down for the following reasons. This is over 410 00:25:12,060 --> 00:25:15,840 the last 90 days. Okay, some of them are repeats of what I just 411 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:19,650 said. Animal hard adult sexual material age specific 412 00:25:19,650 --> 00:25:22,740 restrictions concerning minors age specific restrictions. 413 00:25:22,950 --> 00:25:26,760 biometric data breach Child Child Sexual Abuse material 414 00:25:26,940 --> 00:25:30,930 content promoting eating disorders, coordinating harm, 415 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,750 copyright infringement, dangerous toys data 416 00:25:33,750 --> 00:25:36,570 falsification, defamation, design, infringement 417 00:25:36,570 --> 00:25:40,680 discrimination, disinformation, foreign information manipulation 418 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,880 and interference, gender based violence, geographic indication 419 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:49,170 infringements, geographical requirements, goods and services 420 00:25:49,170 --> 00:25:52,740 not permitted to be offered on the platform, grooming sexual 421 00:25:52,740 --> 00:25:55,830 enticement of minors hate speech, human exploitation, 422 00:25:55,830 --> 00:25:59,400 human trafficking, ie legal organizations, image based 423 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,450 sexual abuse, including content depicting minors, impersonating 424 00:26:03,750 --> 00:26:07,530 or account hijacking. In authentic accounts in authentic 425 00:26:07,530 --> 00:26:11,280 listings in authentic user reviews, incitement to violence 426 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:15,480 and or hatred, insufficient information on traders, language 427 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,680 requirements, misinformation, missing persons ground for data, 428 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:24,780 non consensual image sharing non consensual items containing deep 429 00:26:24,780 --> 00:26:28,710 fake or similar technology using a third party feature, nudity, 430 00:26:28,980 --> 00:26:32,700 online bullying or intimidating patent infringement fishing 431 00:26:32,700 --> 00:26:35,550 pyramid schemes, regulated goods and services right to be 432 00:26:35,550 --> 00:26:39,810 forgotten. Risk for environment risk for environmental damage. I 433 00:26:39,810 --> 00:26:44,940 mean, this. So any, we have probably, in fact, had five and 434 00:26:44,940 --> 00:26:47,820 fractions just in the 25 minutes we've been talking. 435 00:26:48,389 --> 00:26:50,459 Dave Jones: Oh, yeah. before the show starts. Yeah. 436 00:26:51,599 --> 00:26:56,639 Adam Curry: So I mean, this is all fine. But there's no way for 437 00:26:56,639 --> 00:27:00,839 anyone to regulate this in the RSS based system, that doesn't 438 00:27:00,839 --> 00:27:04,169 mean that we need to be a free for all for everything. But this 439 00:27:04,169 --> 00:27:08,729 is never going to they want they the collective de governments. 440 00:27:09,509 --> 00:27:12,479 And in the US, we still have this constitution, very 441 00:27:12,479 --> 00:27:16,619 annoying, annoying, First Amendment, very annoying thing. 442 00:27:16,889 --> 00:27:20,729 But even that has, you know, we've got section 2:30am, this, 443 00:27:20,969 --> 00:27:25,649 the regulation is creeping in. You've seen you've seen the 444 00:27:25,709 --> 00:27:29,519 university studies of podcasting how harmful it is, and we this 445 00:27:29,519 --> 00:27:34,889 has to stop and we have to get rid of this. Right now. The only 446 00:27:34,889 --> 00:27:39,539 weakness in podcasting is advertising. That's the only 447 00:27:39,539 --> 00:27:43,379 weakness. That's the only place they can get you at this point. 448 00:27:43,619 --> 00:27:48,059 They cannot quote unquote, get you any other way. And what 449 00:27:48,059 --> 00:27:54,839 we've built here, I believe is a model for to bring back weblogs, 450 00:27:55,229 --> 00:27:59,609 with code, you can turn it into a microblogging service. I mean, 451 00:27:59,609 --> 00:28:02,729 that's easy. Just it's just how you present it in an app. I 452 00:28:02,729 --> 00:28:06,359 mean, that's how Twitter started, it was RSS feeds. This 453 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:10,019 is the model for video distribution, the model for 454 00:28:10,019 --> 00:28:14,819 books, the model for thoughts, the model for everything that 455 00:28:14,819 --> 00:28:18,449 you want to distribute. And we have built this model and are 456 00:28:18,449 --> 00:28:22,229 showing that it is completed, they have not been able to 457 00:28:22,229 --> 00:28:25,169 penetrate it even with a billion dollars. 458 00:28:28,260 --> 00:28:34,650 Dave Jones: I'm trying to find out so have a have a question 459 00:28:34,650 --> 00:28:37,950 here. Same as a reason issued fall primarily in these 460 00:28:37,950 --> 00:28:43,560 categories. Okay, that was interesting as I'm looking at 461 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:48,960 what you're what you showing me about the DSA under most active 462 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,960 platforms, yeah. Tik Tok, Pinterest, Amazon, Facebook, 463 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:57,240 Google, Google Maps, most use categories. The number one is 464 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:04,620 scope of platform service. So scope of platform service. Am I 465 00:29:04,650 --> 00:29:09,720 too, am I right? And cuz it's a weird, it's a weird phrase. So 466 00:29:10,410 --> 00:29:15,390 that sounds like violations of the platform's Terms of Service. 467 00:29:15,420 --> 00:29:18,810 Sure. Yeah. Is that is the D Is that what that is? I think so. 468 00:29:18,839 --> 00:29:21,839 Adam Curry: Yeah, I think so. Which I'm sure will be all kinds 469 00:29:21,839 --> 00:29:25,199 of, you know, subcategories of impersonating intimidating 470 00:29:25,199 --> 00:29:27,929 etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. They might just not they just 471 00:29:27,929 --> 00:29:29,969 report that under this other category. 472 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,730 Dave Jones: Yes. Okay. So this says statements of reason issued 473 00:29:32,730 --> 00:29:35,430 fall issued fall primarily in these three kind of in these 474 00:29:35,490 --> 00:29:38,550 categories, scope of platform service, three main statements 475 00:29:38,550 --> 00:29:41,310 covering age specific restrictions, good services not 476 00:29:41,310 --> 00:29:44,670 permitted to be offered on the platform, nudity, etc. Okay, so 477 00:29:44,670 --> 00:29:49,410 that yes, so this scope of platform service category, of 478 00:29:49,410 --> 00:29:59,520 which there were yesterday alone, there were 2,047,247 479 00:29:59,730 --> 00:30:05,190 record lists for takedown, based on based on scope of platform 480 00:30:05,190 --> 00:30:06,720 service only. Yeah. 481 00:30:07,079 --> 00:30:09,359 Adam Curry: And the platforms are doing that because they're 482 00:30:09,359 --> 00:30:12,539 being threatened by governments, hey, you better take that down 483 00:30:12,539 --> 00:30:15,599 or abuse me. We know this because this court this is right 484 00:30:15,599 --> 00:30:18,659 now went from the Fifth Circuit to the Supreme Court is back, 485 00:30:18,659 --> 00:30:23,189 and it'll take years. But what the the Trump and Biden 486 00:30:23,189 --> 00:30:26,909 administration's were doing, and without I mean, FBI, CDC, 487 00:30:28,229 --> 00:30:31,919 Department of Health and Human Services and Department, the 488 00:30:31,919 --> 00:30:35,309 Homeland Security Department, Department of Homeland Security, 489 00:30:35,789 --> 00:30:39,899 they were all threatening social media companies to take things 490 00:30:39,899 --> 00:30:44,489 down. Then if you don't, you're killing people, you'll be held 491 00:30:44,489 --> 00:30:48,209 accountable. We have ways to get to you all the end, these are in 492 00:30:48,239 --> 00:30:51,209 emails, this is all you will not hear any reporting on this. 493 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,340 Dave Jones: Well, the way and the way they did it, and this 494 00:30:53,340 --> 00:30:56,250 came out, you know, Twitter, follow the Twitter file. Yeah, 495 00:30:56,250 --> 00:30:59,760 the Twitter files. If it's, you know, a lot of Twitter files 496 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:05,640 were boring. But if there's one takeaway from in one thing that 497 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,060 I think one great service that I think it did was it showed how 498 00:31:09,060 --> 00:31:13,500 this it showed what the method was. And the method is exactly 499 00:31:13,500 --> 00:31:19,440 this is you report a something to the platform. And what you 500 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:23,430 say is, we think that these posts or these users are 501 00:31:23,430 --> 00:31:27,300 violating your community guidelines. Yes. Yes. Your Terms 502 00:31:27,300 --> 00:31:31,650 of Service? You don't tell them to do you say with when you say 503 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,380 here are a bunch of here's a bunch of content that is 504 00:31:34,380 --> 00:31:40,080 violating your platform's terms. And is that it once you have a 505 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:45,900 government that tells you that it creates this nice, this this 506 00:31:45,900 --> 00:31:51,480 nice separation of concerns, where where the government can 507 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,900 say, hey, look, we're just reporting your own violations of 508 00:31:54,900 --> 00:31:57,540 your own terms. We're not saying to take it down, right? We're 509 00:31:57,540 --> 00:32:00,660 just saying, you know, and then the but then the platform is 510 00:32:00,660 --> 00:32:04,200 like, Yeah, but it's the government telling me to take it 511 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,140 down. And they're, you know, there's a lot of stuff going on 512 00:32:07,140 --> 00:32:10,770 as section 230. And if I don't take this down like I did, it 513 00:32:10,770 --> 00:32:14,490 creates this very nice plausible deniability of and that's 514 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:18,450 exactly the way this works. It does not surprise me at all that 515 00:32:18,780 --> 00:32:22,350 statements, scope of platform service is the number one 516 00:32:22,350 --> 00:32:24,600 category. And that's the way it's probably always going to be 517 00:32:24,630 --> 00:32:25,200 probably 518 00:32:25,260 --> 00:32:29,610 Adam Curry: probably, yeah. So this is a long way of saying 519 00:32:30,660 --> 00:32:34,440 podcasting as a distribution mechanism. You know, we all know 520 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,380 what we think a podcast is, but the actual method of 521 00:32:37,380 --> 00:32:41,970 distribution. It's a misnomer. And that's too bad. But we're 522 00:32:41,970 --> 00:32:46,260 just stuck with it. But you the only way forward for humanity 523 00:32:46,260 --> 00:32:51,510 literally for humanity is RSS based distribution. And I'll 524 00:32:51,510 --> 00:32:55,920 take it one step further, we probably have to all focus on 525 00:32:55,920 --> 00:33:00,150 browser based services, progressive web apps, pure 526 00:33:00,150 --> 00:33:03,840 browser based because they're common for all apps, all of 527 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,920 them, all apps are going to be scrutinized, because the 528 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:14,040 platform is now Apple. And Apple has too much to lose. With all 529 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,560 these governments and all this crap, they mean, they can say, 530 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,740 oh, no, no iPhones in Europe than okay, that's fine. As China 531 00:33:19,740 --> 00:33:23,820 said it, no, no iPhones to be sold in China, unless you do X, 532 00:33:23,820 --> 00:33:27,510 Y, or Z, or unless you remove this from your search or don't 533 00:33:27,510 --> 00:33:32,160 allow that app to show up the web is that it truly the only 534 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:37,710 frontier we have left. Now the beauty is we have the index 535 00:33:37,710 --> 00:33:41,250 which can be filled to the brim with any any type of feed we 536 00:33:41,250 --> 00:33:46,290 want with the medium tag genius genius. Dave Jones, Alex gates 537 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:54,090 genius. The this the the saving grace is pod ping, we need to 538 00:33:54,090 --> 00:34:00,120 build that out. And the end, the end the way it works so that 539 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:04,200 we're not just good Samaritans is the value for value peace. 540 00:34:05,250 --> 00:34:09,720 And that will only work with with consumers of content, who 541 00:34:09,720 --> 00:34:12,660 are who should also be producers of content, if you look at the 542 00:34:12,660 --> 00:34:16,980 way value for value works, to feed back into the system. And 543 00:34:16,980 --> 00:34:19,920 those that have audiences that don't feed back into the system 544 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:23,610 will probably eventually go away. So this whole idea that 545 00:34:23,610 --> 00:34:28,320 was started with the success of cereal, and then the big money 546 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:33,810 that was dangled in front of us from Spotify, and other big, big 547 00:34:33,810 --> 00:34:38,580 technology companies mainly it's all gone. It's all gone away, 548 00:34:38,580 --> 00:34:42,660 and maybe that'll come back with with when when interest rates go 549 00:34:42,660 --> 00:34:46,260 back down to zero inevitably they will it may be 10 years, it 550 00:34:46,260 --> 00:34:50,520 may be 10 months, maybe 10 minutes, I don't know. Literally 551 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:57,210 could happen. This is if you're a creator, it's not you're not 552 00:34:57,240 --> 00:35:00,000 it's not a business model being a creator you meant you're doing 553 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:04,260 A podcast for some reason, the entertainment, all of that. 554 00:35:04,260 --> 00:35:07,590 Yeah, that's right. You need to be on the platforms, you need to 555 00:35:07,590 --> 00:35:10,740 play by the platform rules, you can probably get platform money. 556 00:35:11,250 --> 00:35:14,610 But the amount of people who are ever going to get to that level 557 00:35:14,850 --> 00:35:16,710 is less than 1%. 558 00:35:17,970 --> 00:35:20,160 Dave Jones: I was listening to show prep on the way in, you 559 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:26,010 know, yeah, me too. But and his weekly review. And I think James 560 00:35:26,010 --> 00:35:32,130 had a very good way of putting this statement was in discussing 561 00:35:32,130 --> 00:35:37,980 YouTube. He's he said, the way that they the way that YouTube 562 00:35:37,980 --> 00:35:41,370 works is, if you make enough money, they'll let you keep some 563 00:35:41,370 --> 00:35:44,820 of it. I thought that was a great way to describe it. He's 564 00:35:44,820 --> 00:35:47,400 exactly right. So if you make enough money, they'll make it 565 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:48,540 they'll let you keep a little bit of 566 00:35:48,570 --> 00:35:50,700 Adam Curry: Well, I'm glad you I'm glad you heard that that 567 00:35:50,700 --> 00:35:53,850 episode, because there was a lot of to do about this app that is 568 00:35:53,850 --> 00:35:58,050 using free content and charging $49 for it to put you to sleep 569 00:35:58,050 --> 00:36:01,380 at night. And I'm like, I didn't hear that part I didn't hear you 570 00:36:01,380 --> 00:36:04,080 might have it was on it was a pod news story earlier in the 571 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,650 week, some I forget what it's called. But you know, the taking 572 00:36:07,650 --> 00:36:11,460 content that is out there for free, and charging people $49 573 00:36:11,460 --> 00:36:15,570 For an app I'm like, so that's what Google does. That's what 574 00:36:15,570 --> 00:36:21,180 Spotify does. The like, you know, distribution is 575 00:36:21,180 --> 00:36:22,110 distribution. 576 00:36:22,650 --> 00:36:23,670 Dave Jones: They throw ads in it. 577 00:36:25,020 --> 00:36:28,170 Adam Curry: I get ads all the time and podcasts that that are 578 00:36:28,170 --> 00:36:32,100 on, like Joe Rogan, I pay for a subscription, I still get ads. 579 00:36:33,090 --> 00:36:36,690 But But the bottom line is what we're doing here is not it's 580 00:36:36,690 --> 00:36:39,450 never going to be for big money. And there might be some 581 00:36:39,450 --> 00:36:42,960 exceptions. But in general, it's going to value for value 582 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:46,980 proposition keeps everybody keeps the engine running. And I 583 00:36:47,010 --> 00:36:52,200 October 26, it'll be our 16th anniversary of no agenda. We are 584 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:57,810 not rich by any stretch of the imagination. We and it took us 585 00:36:57,810 --> 00:37:02,280 five years of early five years with barely. Meanwhile, we 586 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:06,240 started just as the iPhone one came out. And then it took a 587 00:37:06,240 --> 00:37:12,930 long time for that to really progress. It takes a long time, 588 00:37:13,110 --> 00:37:19,050 and a lot of dedication and an outstanding product to create a 589 00:37:19,050 --> 00:37:25,290 value flow that you can live on. It'd be and I think I would say 590 00:37:25,290 --> 00:37:29,250 two years, you have to do your show regularly for two years 591 00:37:29,250 --> 00:37:31,800 before you can really build up an audience that will sustain 592 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:36,600 you but it is possible. Everybody wants the the old way 593 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:40,740 of doing things. And the old way of doing things is it's not 594 00:37:40,740 --> 00:37:43,530 going to be it's not going to be fun. It's going to be 595 00:37:43,530 --> 00:37:47,430 restrictive. You're going to be very spun up and worried all the 596 00:37:47,430 --> 00:37:52,770 time, if not about A D platforming a D monetization, 597 00:37:52,890 --> 00:37:58,020 but the worst part is D algo. ideation. That's where the true 598 00:37:58,020 --> 00:38:02,670 evil lives is the algos and the algo makes people on YouTube 599 00:38:02,700 --> 00:38:07,500 work. It's like a hamster wheel. Run hamster run otherwise the 600 00:38:07,500 --> 00:38:10,170 water doesn't doesn't dribble in you don't get your little piece 601 00:38:10,170 --> 00:38:15,120 of the money. And long way around of saying we are doing 602 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:19,560 something that is I think is bigger than podcasting. It's no 603 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,530 you already see I know Stephen B's thinking about it. How do we 604 00:38:22,530 --> 00:38:26,520 do value for value for blogs. The first thing is the model we 605 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:30,060 have can be replicated forget the per minute streaming 606 00:38:30,090 --> 00:38:33,150 obviously that's not really going to work with you know, you 607 00:38:33,150 --> 00:38:35,820 have to send me 100 sites because I've read your blog or I 608 00:38:35,820 --> 00:38:41,220 scroll down or whatever. But I will say the browser is the only 609 00:38:41,220 --> 00:38:45,390 place and even that I mean I think you can you can you can 610 00:38:45,390 --> 00:38:49,770 load a different browser on an iPhone, but it will never be 611 00:38:49,770 --> 00:38:52,560 your default browser right that's always gonna go to Safari 612 00:38:53,820 --> 00:38:57,600 as of as of now Yeah, as of now as of now you can still load a 613 00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:02,880 different browser I think PW A's are the only way to go and you 614 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,550 probably know you're probably gonna have to go to a different 615 00:39:05,550 --> 00:39:09,690 type of mobile device in the future as well. Just because 616 00:39:09,720 --> 00:39:14,040 they're closing it in and it's all for your protection to 617 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:18,450 protect your freedoms to protect everybody else's feelings. And 618 00:39:18,990 --> 00:39:23,100 you know and and the people who thought oh, this is so great. We 619 00:39:23,100 --> 00:39:26,130 can get rid of these a holes these these douchebags these 620 00:39:26,130 --> 00:39:29,430 scumbags these white nationalists these racist these 621 00:39:29,430 --> 00:39:33,540 transphobes Guess what? It's going to be used on you to 622 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:38,490 Dave Jones: always, it always is that it's just if you don't 623 00:39:38,490 --> 00:39:41,370 think it will, it's just it's just an ignorance of history. 624 00:39:42,300 --> 00:39:46,080 Like, like, like, like, like I said, when you build when you 625 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:50,790 build it, it's there. And it compels it's compels its own 626 00:39:50,790 --> 00:39:57,120 use. You don't build something just for the other guy. It when 627 00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:01,230 you build it, it's it's going to be used again. Is everybody 628 00:40:01,620 --> 00:40:05,190 because because it's it's, it's more than human nature. It's a 629 00:40:05,190 --> 00:40:10,410 law of the of reality that when you have a thing in front of 630 00:40:10,410 --> 00:40:15,960 you, you find reasons to use the thing. You can't help it. 631 00:40:16,860 --> 00:40:19,680 Adam Curry: That's your big red button theory. Yes, yeah, 632 00:40:19,710 --> 00:40:25,320 Dave Jones: you can't help it. And so if you create a math a, a 633 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:29,670 master, I mean, I'm just gonna call it what is its censorship. 634 00:40:29,670 --> 00:40:33,600 And when you create a master censorship list, you're gonna 635 00:40:33,630 --> 00:40:38,790 earn a censorship regime. That thing is going to be used for 636 00:40:38,790 --> 00:40:40,710 everybody. And 637 00:40:41,820 --> 00:40:44,880 Adam Curry: stop right there. Okay, exactly what happened with 638 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:50,670 Mastodon, the fediverse. Great idea. borderless lockless. I am 639 00:40:50,670 --> 00:40:54,810 on every block list by default me. It's nice not just no 640 00:40:54,810 --> 00:40:58,140 agenda. No, no, it's me. Oh, curries involved that block 641 00:40:58,170 --> 00:41:02,550 podcast index dot social is on block list because Adam curry is 642 00:41:02,550 --> 00:41:04,980 involved with this. He's from no agenda block. 643 00:41:05,670 --> 00:41:09,990 Dave Jones: Well, we're, we're on if you federate, there's no, 644 00:41:10,020 --> 00:41:13,500 there's there's no second tier list where if you federate with 645 00:41:13,500 --> 00:41:15,660 somebody on the block list, you're on the block list? 646 00:41:17,340 --> 00:41:18,270 Adam Curry: Yeah, exactly. 647 00:41:19,140 --> 00:41:23,070 Dave Jones: That's the way this stuff works. So, you know, one 648 00:41:23,070 --> 00:41:28,050 thing that bothers me a little bit about, about this whole 649 00:41:28,050 --> 00:41:31,590 thing is I'm wondering, you know, I want to part of me 650 00:41:31,590 --> 00:41:37,470 thought that we were sort of finished with this endeavor of, 651 00:41:38,490 --> 00:41:42,960 we talked a little bit about it last week, where we thought we 652 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:48,750 were finished with the whole, let's make a full directory that 653 00:41:48,750 --> 00:41:53,310 doesn't have you know, that the only thing this take that gets 654 00:41:53,310 --> 00:42:00,450 takedowns is, you know, for legal reasons, local legal. And 655 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,310 I'm, you know, I'm now less confident in that, because the 656 00:42:05,970 --> 00:42:11,340 platforms are being targeted directly. Now. Me we, it's right 657 00:42:11,340 --> 00:42:14,910 now it's rumble. They're going, they're going after rumble. And 658 00:42:14,910 --> 00:42:20,250 then it's soon soon, but mark my words, soon it will be substack. 659 00:42:20,310 --> 00:42:25,500 Then after yet, Oh, totally. The day is substack, based out of 660 00:42:25,500 --> 00:42:29,310 Australia. Something tells me that 661 00:42:30,510 --> 00:42:31,710 Adam Curry: maybe could be 662 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:34,470 Dave Jones: okay. And I think maybe one of the founders is 663 00:42:34,470 --> 00:42:37,770 there. I'm not real sure. Anyway, neither here nor there. 664 00:42:37,770 --> 00:42:41,910 But they will go after substack. Because substack has way too 665 00:42:41,910 --> 00:42:45,780 much on like Seymour Hersh, people like that these people 666 00:42:45,780 --> 00:42:51,030 have, they have got to be dealt with. They're too dangerous to 667 00:42:51,030 --> 00:42:54,090 let them out there and saying the things that they're saying. 668 00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,290 So and so that bothers me a little bit, because I'm like, 669 00:42:58,290 --> 00:42:59,190 Well, we're based 670 00:42:59,190 --> 00:43:01,890 Adam Curry: in San Francisco. San Francisco. Okay. 671 00:43:04,740 --> 00:43:08,730 Dave Jones: Part of me is thinking. We I think I think I 672 00:43:08,730 --> 00:43:11,400 described it last week as we need to focus on 673 00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:12,540 decentralization. 674 00:43:14,100 --> 00:43:16,320 Adam Curry: Well, okay, so, yeah, I'm sorry, I'm gonna go 675 00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:16,890 ahead, go ahead. 676 00:43:21,300 --> 00:43:23,430 Dave Jones: It kind of came back up during the week this week, 677 00:43:23,430 --> 00:43:32,160 because we're trying to solve the issue of podcasts getting 678 00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:37,290 sort of de prioritized in the index. for financial reasons, we 679 00:43:37,290 --> 00:43:43,800 cannot pull 5 million feeds every 15 minutes. It's just not, 680 00:43:43,860 --> 00:43:48,780 it's not going to happen. So one of the biggest things that I've 681 00:43:48,780 --> 00:43:56,850 had to do since day one of the index is dessert. Every time it 682 00:43:56,850 --> 00:43:59,850 was every step of the build out of the index for the last three 683 00:43:59,850 --> 00:44:05,880 years, it has been in my mind with each step to make sure 684 00:44:06,540 --> 00:44:10,020 because we have a limited budget, make sure that we are 685 00:44:10,410 --> 00:44:17,760 doing everything as efficiently as possible. That means we can't 686 00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:20,970 fully parallelize because that costs a lot of money. That's we 687 00:44:20,970 --> 00:44:29,190 can't scale out. We have to use time as our biggest factor. The 688 00:44:29,190 --> 00:44:32,610 way that has played out and react in in sort of the reality 689 00:44:32,610 --> 00:44:39,480 of what the index does under the covers, is, if if a podcast goes 690 00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:45,540 for six months with no new episodes, it gets de 691 00:44:45,540 --> 00:44:53,700 prioritized. So it's the index stops polling it very often. It 692 00:44:53,700 --> 00:44:58,440 goes into what I what I usually call this lazy polar, is 693 00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:01,620 basically it gives it we'll get around to it whenever it gets 694 00:45:01,620 --> 00:45:07,980 around to it. Eventually, it'll get polled, but not always. So 695 00:45:07,980 --> 00:45:11,760 this obviously has a downside. I mean, the The downside is, you 696 00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,460 know, sometimes podcasts go on hiatus, which is what happened 697 00:45:14,460 --> 00:45:21,030 to this, CNN, Israel, ISRAEL PALESTINE con, you know, thing 698 00:45:21,030 --> 00:45:24,930 it lay, I believe it like went away. And then it came back when 699 00:45:24,930 --> 00:45:28,950 the when the Hamas thing happened in there. That's, 700 00:45:29,580 --> 00:45:35,550 that's not ideal. We we know we need to be better than that. So 701 00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:40,590 the question so then this brought up a strategy that we're 702 00:45:40,590 --> 00:45:42,990 throwing that we're throwing around Christopher ice is doing 703 00:45:42,990 --> 00:45:47,430 some brainstorming on this, which is helpful. He's, you 704 00:45:47,430 --> 00:45:51,840 know, we're trying to decide how can we distribute the load? So 705 00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:53,760 you could run your own 706 00:45:56,940 --> 00:45:57,750 Adam Curry: aggravator, 707 00:45:58,050 --> 00:46:03,300 Dave Jones: right, yeah, your own polling agent, and grab a 708 00:46:03,300 --> 00:46:06,360 copy of all the feeds that have not been pulled in a certain 709 00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:10,110 period of time, like, the feeds that seem to have been de 710 00:46:10,110 --> 00:46:15,870 prioritized. And then you can, you can aggregate some of them, 711 00:46:15,900 --> 00:46:18,960 you can be compulsive of them. If you find a new, if you find a 712 00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:22,770 new episode, you can then ping us, let us know that the so then 713 00:46:22,770 --> 00:46:25,650 we'll reindex it, and bring it back, you know, sort of 714 00:46:25,650 --> 00:46:32,190 resurrected from the from its hypersleep. And this is great. 715 00:46:32,190 --> 00:46:35,550 But then, um, you know that then this leads me sort of further 716 00:46:35,550 --> 00:46:39,690 down this mental path of saying, Well, okay, if you if we're 717 00:46:39,690 --> 00:46:44,700 going this direction. Yes, that's right, Eric push into 718 00:46:44,700 --> 00:46:50,040 popping, if we're going this direction, then why don't we 719 00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:56,580 keep going this direction, and distribute load, not necessarily 720 00:46:56,580 --> 00:47:01,710 distribute load, but distribute the index. Now, this is a much 721 00:47:01,710 --> 00:47:05,430 bigger issue. I mean, like, this is not, this is a, this is a 722 00:47:05,430 --> 00:47:09,930 much more complicated thing. But But I want to think about this. 723 00:47:09,930 --> 00:47:13,140 I mean, we're doing this same thought process. And we're doing 724 00:47:13,140 --> 00:47:19,590 this same discovery with IPFS. And you built out some some 725 00:47:19,590 --> 00:47:23,160 gateways, and we're trying to, we're trying to trying to start, 726 00:47:23,190 --> 00:47:28,080 we're going down this path of distributing this thing to where 727 00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:31,860 there are not single points of failure. Yes, or single points 728 00:47:31,860 --> 00:47:35,640 of takedown. If you want to say that, yes. And I think we need 729 00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:40,200 to fully explore that. And the reason I'm saying all this is 730 00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:44,580 because I'm thinking about it daily, and coming up with some 731 00:47:44,580 --> 00:47:48,930 ideas, I've already got a few, you know, and but I want other 732 00:47:48,930 --> 00:47:55,890 people to think about this as well. And it has to be even if 733 00:47:55,890 --> 00:47:59,580 it's as simple as just, you know, what the the sort of the 734 00:47:59,580 --> 00:48:02,610 technique we've always relied upon is okay, we're going to 735 00:48:02,610 --> 00:48:06,090 make the down the database downloadable. If something 736 00:48:06,090 --> 00:48:11,460 happens to to us, and we're forced by some government entity 737 00:48:11,460 --> 00:48:14,730 to take down something that everybody did you know, that 738 00:48:14,730 --> 00:48:17,640 there's massive disagreement about whether it's, it should 739 00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:18,720 have been taken down? 740 00:48:18,990 --> 00:48:21,540 Adam Curry: Well, the categories are well known. They're right 741 00:48:21,540 --> 00:48:26,280 there, but I would say, probably 10% of the index and violation 742 00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:29,460 today, right now, hands down, including no agenda. 743 00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:33,330 Dave Jones: Oh, you own the EU terms? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Same 744 00:48:33,330 --> 00:48:33,930 with the UK 745 00:48:33,930 --> 00:48:36,540 Adam Curry: terms. I'm not sure eventually with the Canadian 746 00:48:36,540 --> 00:48:42,300 terms. Yeah. So I'm, so you and I are thinking exactly like, and 747 00:48:42,300 --> 00:48:49,290 I know. That's a that's a huge undertaking. It is. And I think 748 00:48:49,290 --> 00:48:52,020 that's something we need to work on long term, but I'm seeing 749 00:48:52,050 --> 00:48:56,820 others. So I don't like saying this. But I know I can. I know 750 00:48:56,820 --> 00:48:59,730 that they're gonna go after hosting companies. I know, 751 00:48:59,730 --> 00:49:02,250 they're gonna start saying, Okay, we're sick and tired of 752 00:49:02,250 --> 00:49:05,940 this. This is showing up. They're gonna go to Apple for 753 00:49:05,940 --> 00:49:10,470 the apps. Take down that up. That's literally what Canada is 754 00:49:10,470 --> 00:49:14,880 going to do. But Apple, you have podcasts, okay. So you have to 755 00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,220 register and then that means that we're going to tell you, 756 00:49:17,460 --> 00:49:21,660 you have to take this this podcast out of your app. And 757 00:49:21,690 --> 00:49:24,660 it's only a hop skip and a jump from there before they go. Okay. 758 00:49:27,270 --> 00:49:31,680 Buzzsprout Okay, blueberry. Okay, Lipson, you know, 759 00:49:32,250 --> 00:49:35,490 eventually as a business, you're gonna you're gonna buckle you're 760 00:49:35,490 --> 00:49:38,490 gonna have to choose and I'm not blaming anybody for doing that. 761 00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:40,200 Dave Jones: No, they don't. They don't have a choice. I mean, 762 00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:43,110 they don't they're, they're victims of this. Yes, 763 00:49:43,140 --> 00:49:46,950 Adam Curry: yes. But I want to be out in front of it. And so 764 00:49:46,950 --> 00:49:54,210 really, it's we need to just going to come down to produce 765 00:49:54,240 --> 00:49:58,770 things like IPFS things like Tor. We have to start baking 766 00:49:58,770 --> 00:50:00,270 that in now. All 767 00:50:01,530 --> 00:50:05,280 Dave Jones: right about PW A's Yeah, the PW A's. I think, as 768 00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:10,620 I'm just gonna lay my cards on the table I've always been. I've 769 00:50:10,620 --> 00:50:15,540 always been skeptical of PW A's. Because I've always felt like 770 00:50:15,570 --> 00:50:19,230 the platforms, the mobile platforms, iOS and Android would 771 00:50:19,230 --> 00:50:20,310 kneecap them. 772 00:50:21,030 --> 00:50:22,740 Adam Curry: They still, they still mind. 773 00:50:23,490 --> 00:50:26,190 Dave Jones: They might, they might, but I'm, I'm thinking, 774 00:50:26,580 --> 00:50:30,240 but I'm thinking this is probably right. I mean, you 775 00:50:30,240 --> 00:50:35,430 know, the PW A's is the way, it's the way you get around. All 776 00:50:35,430 --> 00:50:38,640 of this really is fun. I mean, because it's funny because the 777 00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:42,270 web, the web is where we started in the web is what we're going 778 00:50:42,270 --> 00:50:42,780 back to. 779 00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:45,900 Adam Curry: It's all it's all that is for the people, because 780 00:50:45,900 --> 00:50:50,730 the only thing and it'll take a while because there's just like 781 00:50:50,730 --> 00:50:54,120 there's no not enough, not enough IRS agents to do audits 782 00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:58,980 everywhere. There's just not going to be enough EU police to 783 00:50:58,980 --> 00:51:01,680 go after everything they're gonna go out. It's easy for 784 00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:04,890 them. It's like, hey, look, we can do this. We can, you know, 785 00:51:05,250 --> 00:51:10,530 it's easier and more fun to go after Apple or Instagram, or 786 00:51:10,530 --> 00:51:13,920 YouTube or Tik Tok? Because we can also find them. We get lots 787 00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,020 of money from that. You're not gonna get a lot of money at 788 00:51:16,020 --> 00:51:16,500 Todd. 789 00:51:17,610 --> 00:51:18,900 Dave Jones: Yes, right. Yeah. 790 00:51:18,959 --> 00:51:24,179 Adam Curry: I mean, again, no disrespect anywhere. But yeah. 791 00:51:24,869 --> 00:51:30,419 And, and by the grace of God, we have lightning, the Lightning 792 00:51:30,419 --> 00:51:36,569 Network, that we have a value for value system that enables us 793 00:51:36,569 --> 00:51:40,589 to spread value. It's not a lot now. But what are we even doing 794 00:51:40,589 --> 00:51:43,289 this really three years seriously. I mean, the whole 795 00:51:43,289 --> 00:51:46,049 Lightning Network is only a couple of years old. This is 796 00:51:46,049 --> 00:51:49,889 built, and all the naysayers and all the detractors and all the 797 00:51:49,889 --> 00:51:53,399 anti crypto people. And I mean, it's it just slowly keeps 798 00:51:53,399 --> 00:51:56,069 building is building and building and building. And maybe 799 00:51:56,069 --> 00:52:01,439 we're only doing this for 3% of humanity. But that 3% will be 800 00:52:01,439 --> 00:52:07,799 okay. And this is not just for developers, and Adam and Dave. 801 00:52:08,039 --> 00:52:12,029 Now this is for podcasters. This is for podcast, people who enjoy 802 00:52:12,029 --> 00:52:17,069 podcasts, who like their the podcasts they listen to who want 803 00:52:17,069 --> 00:52:20,369 to keep hearing that who need to support that. And what that 804 00:52:20,369 --> 00:52:24,899 means you have to run some kind of service at home on a 805 00:52:24,899 --> 00:52:29,459 computer, people will do it. But you know, it's going to be for a 806 00:52:29,459 --> 00:52:34,679 small percentage and don't expect, you know, podcasting to 807 00:52:34,679 --> 00:52:37,589 be a $2 billion industry. Not that it ever has been in my 808 00:52:37,589 --> 00:52:41,849 mind. But it's it's it's a human thing. Like what's happening 809 00:52:41,849 --> 00:52:46,079 right now, in the Middle East. There's a lot that is not 810 00:52:46,079 --> 00:52:48,029 getting out. There's I mean, do you want to talk to this 811 00:52:48,029 --> 00:52:50,999 information? I'd say governments are doing more than the people 812 00:52:50,999 --> 00:52:51,539 right now. 813 00:52:52,860 --> 00:52:57,600 Dave Jones: By a by a factor of of something by a huge factor. 814 00:52:57,600 --> 00:52:59,130 Yeah, for sure. And I 815 00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:02,160 Adam Curry: mean, I really just want to go back to wow, I wish I 816 00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:05,460 could find a couple of blogs that are updating and I can, you 817 00:53:05,460 --> 00:53:08,490 know, I got I got feed readers, none of them really function the 818 00:53:08,490 --> 00:53:13,020 way they except for the freedom controller. None that really 819 00:53:13,020 --> 00:53:16,350 function the way that's that's handy, you know, and there's 820 00:53:16,350 --> 00:53:20,460 another thing we need to do. And it's this all exists. If that's, 821 00:53:20,490 --> 00:53:23,580 you know, we're going to have to move to the content being 822 00:53:23,580 --> 00:53:26,700 published in structured data, so not just your feet. This is 823 00:53:27,180 --> 00:53:29,820 like, I just have experience with this, the fact that I 824 00:53:29,820 --> 00:53:33,960 publish all my show notes and all information and OPML has 825 00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:37,860 been an incredible rich experience. Because time and 826 00:53:37,860 --> 00:53:41,310 again, developers come along and say, Oh, look at this structured 827 00:53:41,310 --> 00:53:45,090 data, I can read that. I can do something cool with that. 828 00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:48,840 Dave Jones: There's no need for LLM or anything like that. It's 829 00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:50,430 all right there. Yes, me 830 00:53:50,459 --> 00:53:54,029 Adam Curry: and why wouldn't I have my own algo that does my 831 00:53:54,029 --> 00:54:00,539 own shuffling of content based upon my rules? I should I should 832 00:54:00,539 --> 00:54:03,749 and that's really the main thing. That's what social 833 00:54:03,749 --> 00:54:08,699 networks I've right now. I despise no agenda social. I 834 00:54:08,699 --> 00:54:12,839 gotta say it I started this thing. I love that I love that 835 00:54:12,839 --> 00:54:16,439 Aaron or took over because a tremendous amount of work. But 836 00:54:16,439 --> 00:54:21,059 now it's like I I just want to subscribe to People and read 837 00:54:21,059 --> 00:54:23,939 what they have to say and I want to be I don't want to get into 838 00:54:23,939 --> 00:54:28,529 arguments. I don't want I don't want to have comments back and 839 00:54:28,529 --> 00:54:31,739 forth in the feed. It's all wrong. It's all it makes me 840 00:54:31,739 --> 00:54:32,579 unhappy. 841 00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:36,900 Dave Jones: So I think this is a you know, this, this is 842 00:54:37,050 --> 00:54:42,180 interesting. I've got a clip from Paul throt this clip number 843 00:54:42,180 --> 00:54:47,190 one, I think so. I think it's worth playing this real quick 844 00:54:47,190 --> 00:54:54,780 just just to see okay, so the issue here is the what we've all 845 00:54:54,780 --> 00:54:59,160 seen we all know about this this in certification of the internet 846 00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:00,960 Unknown: I think, 847 00:55:01,500 --> 00:55:02,640 Adam Curry: sorry, I thought that was 848 00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:04,230 Dave Jones: No, no, yeah, no hit it hit. 849 00:55:04,770 --> 00:55:07,650 Unknown: I think like I create content, we all create content, 850 00:55:07,650 --> 00:55:11,430 right? This is one thing. So not surprisingly, I see the value in 851 00:55:11,430 --> 00:55:14,490 content. And I see the value in paying for good content. I try 852 00:55:14,490 --> 00:55:17,910 to support content sources that I think are high quality. 853 00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:20,700 There's a podcast that I listened to that I really like, 854 00:55:20,790 --> 00:55:24,750 and for the most part, and the problem is there's not enough of 855 00:55:24,750 --> 00:55:27,180 it, and I'm running out of stuff to listen to, and I wish there 856 00:55:27,180 --> 00:55:30,450 was a thing, and they have a patron. And so that so they have 857 00:55:30,450 --> 00:55:34,440 little excerpts from like, these Patreon episodes. So I went, I 858 00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:36,960 was at the gym. And between sets I literally went to because I 859 00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:38,760 ran out of stuff to listen to I was like, what are they? How 860 00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:41,610 does this work? And the thing I wanted to figure out was, if I 861 00:55:41,610 --> 00:55:45,750 pay them, can I use the the app I use to listen to that content? 862 00:55:45,810 --> 00:55:48,420 Right, I think it's four bucks a month or something for this 863 00:55:48,420 --> 00:55:52,020 particular thing. And I couldn't figure it out, I think I have to 864 00:55:52,020 --> 00:55:54,450 go to the Patreon website, frankly, however, and this is 865 00:55:54,450 --> 00:55:58,200 the part where you would be very familiar with Apple, maybe not 866 00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:02,670 alone, but somewhat unique among podcasts, platform providers, 867 00:56:02,910 --> 00:56:06,210 has subscriptions in their podcast app that you can do on a 868 00:56:06,210 --> 00:56:10,830 per subscription basis. So the podcast, if I pay them directly, 869 00:56:10,830 --> 00:56:14,220 it's four bucks a month. If I pay through Apple, it's only 870 00:56:14,220 --> 00:56:16,350 through the apple podcast app, which I don't want to use 871 00:56:16,350 --> 00:56:20,010 because I prefer cross platform. And it's more expensive, right? 872 00:56:20,010 --> 00:56:24,480 Because Apple has their 30%. Yep. So it's five bucks. Right? 873 00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:30,150 That's the that's the cost. And is like, that is a great 874 00:56:30,150 --> 00:56:32,790 example, something that should just be easier, right? It 875 00:56:32,790 --> 00:56:36,240 shouldn't matter what app I use it, I should be able to sign 876 00:56:36,240 --> 00:56:40,950 into the account of the app and get that content through any 877 00:56:40,950 --> 00:56:43,740 podcast app. And I don't think I can I could be wrong, but I 878 00:56:43,740 --> 00:56:45,540 don't think right. 879 00:56:45,990 --> 00:56:48,090 Adam Curry: Well, he's right there. He's actually talking 880 00:56:48,090 --> 00:56:54,840 about two different techno feudalist, which is Apple, and 881 00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:59,580 also Patreon. What do they do like 10% these days? And then 882 00:56:59,580 --> 00:57:01,950 they'll kick you off? If they don't like you if they get 883 00:57:01,950 --> 00:57:05,550 complaints about, you know, a t shirt your war? Yeah, right. 884 00:57:06,900 --> 00:57:11,640 Dave Jones: I think this is this is an interesting is an 885 00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:16,500 interesting way. You know, I think as people who write stuff, 886 00:57:16,830 --> 00:57:21,210 they write code and sort of build out systems that do 887 00:57:21,210 --> 00:57:26,130 podcast delivery and podcast support. Let's just call it 888 00:57:26,130 --> 00:57:31,560 podcast infrastructure. I think it's always interesting to hear 889 00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:37,740 people who are not, who are technically literate. I'm not 890 00:57:37,740 --> 00:57:41,220 talking about you know, your grandmother. I'm just talking 891 00:57:41,220 --> 00:57:44,910 about people who are technically literate, but who are not in the 892 00:57:44,910 --> 00:57:50,460 same milieu that we're in. And hear them describe what they 893 00:57:50,490 --> 00:57:56,220 sort of expect to happen. And what their confusions and 894 00:57:56,220 --> 00:58:01,050 frustrations are. And, you know, what he's describing is 895 00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:06,840 something that is not new to anybody who built our podcast 896 00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:10,500 infrastructure. We all understand this is an enormous 897 00:58:10,500 --> 00:58:16,080 mess. And what and it should, he said, he says, this should be 898 00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:19,830 easier. Hey, everybody, over here on this side of the 899 00:58:19,830 --> 00:58:22,740 podcasts, infrastructure world, we all agree, this should 900 00:58:22,740 --> 00:58:26,790 absolutely be easier. The reason it's not has nothing to do with 901 00:58:26,790 --> 00:58:30,690 technology, because the technology exists and has 902 00:58:30,690 --> 00:58:33,870 existed forever. I mean, you could do this very easily. I 903 00:58:33,870 --> 00:58:37,110 mean, we we got on the on the horn, you know, we got Tom Rossi 904 00:58:37,110 --> 00:58:40,740 on this show and banged out a subscription model and you know, 905 00:58:40,830 --> 00:58:45,060 in a show, and that was based on stuff that we had actually done, 906 00:58:45,210 --> 00:58:51,180 but way earlier. And so this is not it's not that it's difficult 907 00:58:51,180 --> 00:58:57,000 or complicated. It's that these technical, would you call them 908 00:58:57,000 --> 00:58:59,970 technical aristocratic, techno feudal, 909 00:59:00,420 --> 00:59:02,460 Adam Curry: techno, techno feudalism. 910 00:59:02,910 --> 00:59:06,930 Dave Jones: The Techno feudalist? Yes have have put 911 00:59:06,930 --> 00:59:11,490 barriers in front financial barriers. And those financial 912 00:59:11,490 --> 00:59:14,250 barriers are not just purely financial, they lead to deep 913 00:59:14,250 --> 00:59:16,620 platforming. So you 914 00:59:16,710 --> 00:59:19,140 Adam Curry: you violate enslavement that leads to 915 00:59:19,140 --> 00:59:21,180 enslavement. Yeah, look at 916 00:59:21,180 --> 00:59:25,950 Dave Jones: Dominus. They violated they were deemed to 917 00:59:25,950 --> 00:59:32,160 have violated the terms by allowing people to send 918 00:59:32,970 --> 00:59:37,860 lightning payments directly to each other and they were taken 919 00:59:37,860 --> 00:59:43,080 down. They were deep platformed off of the app, the app store. 920 00:59:44,580 --> 00:59:49,230 This this is what this is why the podcast app developer. 921 00:59:51,900 --> 00:59:57,210 Community is so afraid. How many times have we heard over the 922 00:59:57,210 --> 01:00:02,790 years that you I would love to support that. But I'm just a 923 01:00:02,790 --> 01:00:06,000 little nervous that I'll get that I'll get rejected by app 924 01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:06,360 review, 925 01:00:06,450 --> 01:00:09,180 Adam Curry: or or Yeah, App Review, Apple, Google, Google 926 01:00:09,180 --> 01:00:11,580 has some weird rules too. Yes, 927 01:00:11,610 --> 01:00:15,960 Dave Jones: for the day store. And that, in some ways, Google's 928 01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:19,470 are even more arbitrary than iOS, me, because you'll go long 929 01:00:19,470 --> 01:00:22,380 periods of time with no feedback, everything's fine. And 930 01:00:22,380 --> 01:00:28,110 then just out of the blue. And so please, go ahead and play 931 01:00:28,260 --> 01:00:29,490 part two of that. Paul, throughout, 932 01:00:29,730 --> 01:00:31,560 Unknown: this is something where this is going to come up again 933 01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:34,920 and again. The answer is really, no, there's no, that's the 934 01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:38,040 problem. And it's gonna, hopefully, through regulation 935 01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:42,120 and customer pushback, some of this stuff will revert or get 936 01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:42,930 better, right? 937 01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:44,700 Adam Curry: Oh, yeah. Don't worry, the government's here to 938 01:00:44,700 --> 01:00:46,920 help. They'll take care of it for you. Yeah. 939 01:00:47,070 --> 01:00:51,600 Dave Jones: Yes. This is this is the this is the answer that 940 01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:56,370 people think we'll have is, oh, if we just sue. If we just get 941 01:00:56,370 --> 01:01:01,680 the EFF the the, you know, the FTC. And if we just if we just 942 01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:05,550 said anti anti anti trust, that all this stuff will sort itself 943 01:01:05,550 --> 01:01:08,820 out? No, no, no, no, no, that's that's absolutely not the case. 944 01:01:08,820 --> 01:01:13,110 Antitrust, anti competitive ministries of anti 945 01:01:13,110 --> 01:01:15,420 competitiveness, these things around the world. They don't 946 01:01:15,420 --> 01:01:24,450 exist to make. They don't exist to make the marketplace more 947 01:01:24,450 --> 01:01:26,550 fair. They exist 948 01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:29,730 Adam Curry: to give advantage to the to the big 949 01:01:30,900 --> 01:01:34,080 Dave Jones: to the incumbent and the big incumbent. Exactly. They 950 01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:35,730 are moat their moat builders. 951 01:01:35,790 --> 01:01:38,280 Adam Curry: That's exactly why you're seeing AI regulation. No 952 01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:41,460 one knows what it is. But we can't have people doing this 953 01:01:41,460 --> 01:01:44,460 stuff at home. Now, we can't have that which, of course, is 954 01:01:44,460 --> 01:01:46,050 already the genies out of the bottle. 955 01:01:46,650 --> 01:01:49,680 Dave Jones: But I think this I think this really solidifies 956 01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:54,990 that that idea that PWA is really are probably the the only 957 01:01:54,990 --> 01:01:59,250 thing that that the only thing that makes sense long term for a 958 01:01:59,250 --> 01:02:05,520 free for a purely free experience 959 01:02:05,580 --> 01:02:09,600 Adam Curry: a question about PWA? Is, is it possible once 960 01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:14,610 you've can can you load an entire podcast app being a PWA? 961 01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:19,230 Local, on your in your local browser? And I mean, I 962 01:02:19,230 --> 01:02:22,230 understand there's a lot of things you can't get without the 963 01:02:22,230 --> 01:02:26,640 platform itself, without the machine itself, per se, but the 964 01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:31,110 virtual machine that is a browser? I mean, can it? Can it 965 01:02:31,110 --> 01:02:35,010 do enough? Visit? I mean, I started to look into it a little 966 01:02:35,010 --> 01:02:42,000 bit, it seems like it is. So I know that, for instance, cast 967 01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:48,600 ematic. Is it a serverless? App? Can you do the same and a PWA. 968 01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:54,030 And I understand that an index or a place a light does have a 969 01:02:54,030 --> 01:02:58,740 lightweight client, meaning you can't be actually I would say 970 01:02:58,740 --> 01:03:02,700 that the only reason we have indexes is for search. I'm just 971 01:03:02,700 --> 01:03:05,790 gonna go out on a limb here. There's a lot of other reasons 972 01:03:06,180 --> 01:03:09,540 that are that are handy to have one. But it's really like I want 973 01:03:09,540 --> 01:03:14,070 to it removes that the age old problem of click right click on 974 01:03:14,070 --> 01:03:17,370 the RSS button and add it to your feed. That's really what it 975 01:03:17,370 --> 01:03:18,000 removes. 976 01:03:18,510 --> 01:03:21,060 Dave Jones: Yeah, but ya know, yeah. And that's actually 977 01:03:21,060 --> 01:03:23,520 bothered me in the past. I'm like, you know, the only thing 978 01:03:23,550 --> 01:03:27,090 the only thing we really are here for is search. Yeah. 979 01:03:27,810 --> 01:03:30,960 Adam Curry: So I understand that and search can be distributed. 980 01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:34,320 There's lots of different, you know, thinking about that. But 981 01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:38,880 can you create a PWA that just has it all in one bundle, you 982 01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:44,250 load it once, now, and you load it from the server, you know, 983 01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:46,740 there's a command service and here's the latest version, kind 984 01:03:46,740 --> 01:03:49,800 of like a jar file back in the day, if I remember how Java used 985 01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:53,700 to work, like, like you started up brings in a new JAR file, 986 01:03:53,700 --> 01:03:56,910 okay, everything's good to go. Can Can that actually work in a 987 01:03:56,910 --> 01:04:01,110 PWA? Can you build a podcast app that that is not just a web 988 01:04:01,110 --> 01:04:03,180 front end, but actually has the logic in it? 989 01:04:04,650 --> 01:04:07,860 Dave Jones: I think what you're saying is, can you could you 990 01:04:07,890 --> 01:04:11,400 build an app where the essentially the index was in the 991 01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:11,880 app, 992 01:04:12,389 --> 01:04:14,309 Adam Curry: bar, whatever relevant, whatever relevant? 993 01:04:14,339 --> 01:04:19,679 Well, not just the index, but the logic of all the logic that 994 01:04:19,679 --> 01:04:20,969 an app has, you know? 995 01:04:23,670 --> 01:04:26,970 Dave Jones: I guess. Yeah. You mean You mean like aggregating 996 01:04:26,970 --> 01:04:27,960 feeds itself, not 997 01:04:28,110 --> 01:04:30,090 Adam Curry: the ones you subscribe to storing, 998 01:04:30,180 --> 01:04:32,940 downloading storing stuff, there's enough space and all 999 01:04:32,940 --> 01:04:35,880 that within its machine, whatever that is. I mean, I 1000 01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:37,890 thought that used to be a problem while you only have so 1001 01:04:37,890 --> 01:04:42,150 many, so much room to store stuff. Can you store it in a 1002 01:04:42,150 --> 01:04:45,720 download to your drive? Can it talk to your logical file system 1003 01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:49,170 and all these things that I've not kept up on over the years? 1004 01:04:49,650 --> 01:04:51,780 As PW A's have progressed? I think 1005 01:04:53,010 --> 01:04:59,040 Dave Jones: my understanding is that PW A's My understanding is 1006 01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:04,110 Pw A's have an Access outside of the browser cross origin 1007 01:05:04,110 --> 01:05:07,500 sandbox? Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but if that's, I 1008 01:05:07,500 --> 01:05:10,560 think that's the case if I don't think they're restricted by the 1009 01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:14,430 same origin policy. Okay. If that and if that's the case, 1010 01:05:14,430 --> 01:05:18,810 you, you definitely could do what you're saying. That, you 1011 01:05:18,810 --> 01:05:25,890 know, think like, like Ben Ben. Benjamin Bellamy, you know, he 1012 01:05:25,890 --> 01:05:30,000 had talked before about, about building apps with the whole 1013 01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:35,820 directory just in it. Sure. You grab a copy of the of the index, 1014 01:05:35,820 --> 01:05:36,240 and yeah, it's 1015 01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:38,250 Adam Curry: only what's 60 gigs or whatever. 1016 01:05:40,290 --> 01:05:42,420 Dave Jones: 60 Gig app download? Yeah, 1017 01:05:42,450 --> 01:05:43,950 Adam Curry: well, I mean, you download the ones? 1018 01:05:44,970 --> 01:05:47,760 Dave Jones: You don't? Yeah, it's definitely doable, because 1019 01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:53,310 you could actually I know, this is a really interesting idea. If 1020 01:05:53,310 --> 01:06:00,690 you had if you had like a seat, I can envision a service, okay. 1021 01:06:00,690 --> 01:06:07,560 And I can envision us doing sort of like a build your own 1022 01:06:07,560 --> 01:06:17,850 directory function. So that you could say, Okay, I want I want 1023 01:06:17,850 --> 01:06:22,380 all of these, I want all of these feeds. Let's say you had 1024 01:06:22,380 --> 01:06:28,230 some way to efficiently select large quantities of feed, like, 1025 01:06:28,440 --> 01:06:32,160 like, I don't want any of I want all of blueberries fades, I want 1026 01:06:32,160 --> 01:06:35,460 all of us browse fades, I want all of RSS dot coms feet. I 1027 01:06:35,460 --> 01:06:40,350 don't I'm just making stuff up. You could large swaths of feeds, 1028 01:06:40,350 --> 01:06:43,170 you could curate and say, Okay, I want a database with just 1029 01:06:43,170 --> 01:06:48,300 that. And then you down and then you download a custom database, 1030 01:06:48,930 --> 01:06:56,670 to throw into your app into as a as a built in feed database. And 1031 01:06:56,670 --> 01:07:03,600 then as you and then, then you be your app could then sort of 1032 01:07:03,810 --> 01:07:08,490 poll the index to get fresh content, whenever it needed or 1033 01:07:08,490 --> 01:07:11,610 download the weekly full dump or whatever. I don't know, I'm just 1034 01:07:11,640 --> 01:07:14,250 I'm just brainstorming here. I'm trying to think of ways where 1035 01:07:14,670 --> 01:07:17,610 you could have a fully self contained app that didn't suffer 1036 01:07:17,610 --> 01:07:21,840 from like, potential deliverability blocks, 1037 01:07:22,380 --> 01:07:25,800 Adam Curry: right? Well, that's another thing you can miss 1038 01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:28,440 always blocks, there's always roadblocks, there's always 1039 01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:33,240 things that that that'll happen. But I mean, it really, if you 1040 01:07:33,240 --> 01:07:38,520 just take it back to this simple RSS just blogs, just for site 1041 01:07:38,520 --> 01:07:44,340 just microblogging. Just real simple. A progressive web app 1042 01:07:44,340 --> 01:07:52,440 should be able to subscribe to feeds, pull them, but also 1043 01:07:53,310 --> 01:08:00,330 create and modify your own feed, and upload it to IPFS or, you 1044 01:08:00,330 --> 01:08:04,410 know, something else. And then you just basically created a 1045 01:08:04,500 --> 01:08:07,950 competitor to every social network out there, and how you 1046 01:08:07,950 --> 01:08:13,440 present the content. That's what determines what it is. So, you 1047 01:08:13,440 --> 01:08:16,260 know, I've always advocated for different types of podcast app 1048 01:08:16,260 --> 01:08:19,020 experiences, it's still kind of the it would still email I mean, 1049 01:08:19,020 --> 01:08:21,900 we're still doing email. The here's, here's your, here's the 1050 01:08:21,900 --> 01:08:25,830 people have sent you stuff. Here's a, an indicator that says 1051 01:08:25,830 --> 01:08:31,170 there's new stuff. Now. Most of them have kind of the river of 1052 01:08:31,170 --> 01:08:35,760 news idea, like, like pod verse and fountain you have a 1053 01:08:35,760 --> 01:08:40,170 scrolling list. Yeah, that's, that's the thing that is 1054 01:08:40,170 --> 01:08:44,490 enjoyable about a podcast app, is I see what's new in 1055 01:08:44,490 --> 01:08:49,140 chronological order. And it's not determined by some algo as 1056 01:08:49,140 --> 01:08:51,840 to what I'm seeing first, or what's being pushed in my face 1057 01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:55,410 or below a comment that I can't control it not showing up, you 1058 01:08:55,410 --> 01:09:00,780 know, that we could mean the same infrastructure applies the 1059 01:09:00,780 --> 01:09:07,200 exact same infrastructure and probably eventually will doesn't 1060 01:09:07,200 --> 01:09:12,210 mean that posting companies have to go away at all. But we're 1061 01:09:12,210 --> 01:09:15,210 gonna have to start thinking about creating these things. 1062 01:09:17,729 --> 01:09:19,559 Dave Jones: There's just a difference. There's a difference 1063 01:09:19,559 --> 01:09:25,289 in purpose between, you know, fundamentally between what I 1064 01:09:25,289 --> 01:09:29,909 would say open source and the witching which is us is trying 1065 01:09:29,909 --> 01:09:32,789 to do and what the podcast industrial complex what their, 1066 01:09:32,819 --> 01:09:34,199 what their endeavors are. 1067 01:09:34,619 --> 01:09:38,939 Adam Curry: So there's they're fundamentally absolutely open 1068 01:09:38,939 --> 01:09:43,529 source. The web is open source. RSS is open, it's open. Anybody 1069 01:09:43,529 --> 01:09:46,559 can use it, anybody can create it, the minute it's not, they're 1070 01:09:46,559 --> 01:09:49,169 creating cloud capital, and it's meant to keep you out and it's 1071 01:09:49,169 --> 01:09:54,299 meant to make money on it, which is fine. But unfortunately, the 1072 01:09:54,299 --> 01:09:57,899 world is so connected now. That it's not just about money. It's 1073 01:09:57,899 --> 01:10:00,569 about power. It's about information. Power of 1074 01:10:00,569 --> 01:10:06,389 information, the power of words, you know, that we need to 1075 01:10:06,389 --> 01:10:08,969 create, we need to continue to create we're doing it, we need 1076 01:10:08,969 --> 01:10:11,519 to continue to create that parallel universe the same 1077 01:10:11,519 --> 01:10:14,939 thing. We had a very lovely call with Sam and Michael from wave 1078 01:10:14,939 --> 01:10:20,279 lake on. And it was good because we cleared a lot of things up. 1079 01:10:20,969 --> 01:10:26,339 And, and it really dawned on me so so the same thing applies, by 1080 01:10:26,339 --> 01:10:31,229 the way. I mean, eventually, someone's gonna go to wave Lake 1081 01:10:31,229 --> 01:10:36,029 and say, hey, you know, this song has this lyric in it, which 1082 01:10:36,029 --> 01:10:39,209 I accidentally played on boosted Grand Ball. Which 1083 01:10:41,160 --> 01:10:43,500 Dave Jones: which condolences, okay? 1084 01:10:44,790 --> 01:10:49,560 Adam Curry: Which, you know, is against European rules, it's 1085 01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:54,150 violence towards women, it's, you know, it. It's, it's 1086 01:10:54,690 --> 01:10:58,020 provocated, which, by the way, is what art sometimes is 1087 01:10:58,020 --> 01:11:01,470 supposed to be if not always wavelength, you got to take that 1088 01:11:01,470 --> 01:11:05,910 off. Now, that's going to happen, you just know what's 1089 01:11:05,910 --> 01:11:10,740 going to happen. Doesn't mean that that that company's that 1090 01:11:10,830 --> 01:11:17,250 handhold. And boy, I got a real I was humbled by my 1091 01:11:17,250 --> 01:11:21,330 misunderstanding of the difference between a podcaster 1092 01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:27,900 and musicians, artists, artists have had to have a very 1093 01:11:27,900 --> 01:11:31,050 different back end business model that has been created for 1094 01:11:31,050 --> 01:11:34,770 them, but they've all had to adhere to. And it's all 1095 01:11:34,770 --> 01:11:38,160 regulation, that all behooves the incumbents of not the 1096 01:11:38,190 --> 01:11:42,900 creator, if you will, at all. And all for, you know, for 1097 01:11:42,900 --> 01:11:46,680 industry and for publishing companies and record companies 1098 01:11:46,680 --> 01:11:50,700 and all stuff that is actually no longer needed. But you don't 1099 01:11:50,700 --> 01:11:54,540 just twist someone's mind overnight and say, Oh, you don't 1100 01:11:54,540 --> 01:11:59,820 have to do it that way. It's not that simple. The handholding 1101 01:11:59,820 --> 01:12:05,640 that will be necessary for for artists have to be brought into 1102 01:12:05,640 --> 01:12:09,930 the system, the understanding even just purely of what is an 1103 01:12:09,930 --> 01:12:13,500 RSS feed and what what do I actually own with it and what 1104 01:12:13,740 --> 01:12:18,060 what hangs off of it is miles behind where we are with 1105 01:12:18,060 --> 01:12:24,690 podcasting. And so I underestimated how important it 1106 01:12:24,690 --> 01:12:28,830 is what the company like wave Lake is doing to try and end 1107 01:12:28,830 --> 01:12:32,250 they're learning themselves. They are definitely learning 1108 01:12:32,250 --> 01:12:38,190 themselves to to bring that in. And and it really was apparent. 1109 01:12:38,730 --> 01:12:42,720 This was quite a phenomenal experience. So Ainsley 1110 01:12:42,720 --> 01:12:48,000 Costello's manager, Julie, so she loves Sam that wavelength 1111 01:12:48,000 --> 01:12:50,970 she loves what they're doing. She's so happy that you know 1112 01:12:50,970 --> 01:12:55,590 it's working and things are are taking off, but she completely 1113 01:12:55,590 --> 01:13:01,140 understands the future necessity of sovereignty. Because she's 1114 01:13:01,140 --> 01:13:07,650 been through the label lying the you know, the bullcrap the money 1115 01:13:07,650 --> 01:13:11,160 stealing, she's seen it all. And she's also seen it from the 1116 01:13:11,160 --> 01:13:14,850 modern platforms, the scam that just to get played the whole 1117 01:13:14,850 --> 01:13:16,470 thing. She understands that, 1118 01:13:16,890 --> 01:13:19,110 Dave Jones: but love to have her on the show if she would ever be 1119 01:13:19,110 --> 01:13:19,950 willing to talk about it. 1120 01:13:20,699 --> 01:13:23,819 Adam Curry: I'm sure she will not. The Julie is phenomenal, 1121 01:13:23,819 --> 01:13:26,279 because you can't just have a chat with her. I've had two 1122 01:13:26,279 --> 01:13:29,789 phone calls each one three hours. She said she sent me a 1123 01:13:29,789 --> 01:13:32,219 night she said no, but here's what's in she sent me an email 1124 01:13:32,219 --> 01:13:35,339 last night. I haven't responded to it yet. This is one of the 1125 01:13:35,339 --> 01:13:41,849 longest emails I've received in my life. Actually, let me do a 1126 01:13:41,849 --> 01:13:44,159 word count on it. This is hilarious homage. 1127 01:13:44,490 --> 01:13:47,010 Dave Jones: Does it come with a link to check GPT 1128 01:13:48,239 --> 01:13:51,929 Adam Curry: want to be able to summarize it? Yeah, it's 1129 01:13:51,929 --> 01:13:54,239 literally titled thoughts. Okay, hold on a second. 1130 01:13:56,220 --> 01:13:59,910 Dave Jones: Love one one word subject and 5000 word even 1131 01:14:00,720 --> 01:14:02,700 Adam Curry: though it may let me just see for it. And this isn't 1132 01:14:02,790 --> 01:14:06,990 an I love it. And my first opening and my reply to her is 1133 01:14:06,990 --> 01:14:11,790 going to be I love that you did this. Just let me just see Hold 1134 01:14:11,790 --> 01:14:14,940 on a second. No, let me just paste this. Let me get a word 1135 01:14:14,940 --> 01:14:18,930 caps. Let me get enough says it's a sub stack. Oh, no, it's 1136 01:14:18,960 --> 01:14:23,970 it's like it's two sub stack accounts. Is there there's got 1137 01:14:23,970 --> 01:14:26,940 to be a word I'm looking at notepad plus plus surely they 1138 01:14:26,940 --> 01:14:27,510 have a 1139 01:14:28,170 --> 01:14:30,360 Dave Jones: yes. And there is at the bottom on the status bar. 1140 01:14:31,200 --> 01:14:31,500 Oh, 1141 01:14:31,529 --> 01:14:43,589 Adam Curry: thank you my one Words 9779 Words. Whoa, yes. 1142 01:14:46,409 --> 01:14:46,799 Now, 1143 01:14:47,309 --> 01:14:49,859 Dave Jones: what do you fear for the mere fact the mere fact that 1144 01:14:49,859 --> 01:14:54,209 somebody okay, this when somebody sends me a one a one or 1145 01:14:54,209 --> 01:14:57,659 two sentence email. I'm very appreciative when somebody sends 1146 01:14:57,659 --> 01:15:02,519 me a five paragraph email I am annoyed when somebody sends me a 1147 01:15:02,519 --> 01:15:08,759 9000 word email. I'm like, I will print that thing and spend 1148 01:15:08,759 --> 01:15:12,539 a Sunday morning reading it. Because I mean, that is a person 1149 01:15:12,539 --> 01:15:15,269 who has something to say, and you better listen. Correct. 1150 01:15:15,900 --> 01:15:19,890 Adam Curry: So the first thing she goes into his US law about 1151 01:15:19,890 --> 01:15:23,850 what is a podcast? And you know, should it be deemed under? Me? 1152 01:15:23,850 --> 01:15:27,210 Oh, the radio guidelines? And so, you know, I'm going to set 1153 01:15:27,210 --> 01:15:31,380 her straight on that. Because if, if the industry, the 1154 01:15:31,380 --> 01:15:35,580 Haddaway, to license music and podcast, they would have done 1155 01:15:35,580 --> 01:15:38,970 it. Are you kidding me? They would love to do that. But they 1156 01:15:38,970 --> 01:15:41,010 can't, because they're all fighting against each other? 1157 01:15:41,010 --> 01:15:44,010 Because is it a performance? Is it a stream? Is it a download? 1158 01:15:44,010 --> 01:15:48,240 is a mechanical copy? Is it a? Is it a derivative work, I mean, 1159 01:15:48,240 --> 01:15:53,070 et cetera, et cetera. But what's interesting is that in this 1160 01:15:53,220 --> 01:16:00,780 quest for her, by her to, to fit the existing system of 1161 01:16:01,170 --> 01:16:05,100 publishing rights master and rap master recording, splits, 1162 01:16:05,790 --> 01:16:08,850 there's all these different things that go and this is just 1163 01:16:08,850 --> 01:16:12,840 for existing work and how she's had to work with with Ainsley in 1164 01:16:12,840 --> 01:16:21,390 her in her. In her career, she sees the need for a sovereign 1165 01:16:21,390 --> 01:16:25,680 way to do this. Now, here's what's an everyone has only been 1166 01:16:25,680 --> 01:16:28,050 helpful. So I'm not being negative about anybody. But I 1167 01:16:28,050 --> 01:16:32,100 also saw because she's in the telegram group. And she has had, 1168 01:16:32,220 --> 01:16:35,850 so she had a meeting with voltage and voltage said, Oh, I 1169 01:16:35,850 --> 01:16:39,450 know what you want, do you want your own node, then you want to 1170 01:16:39,450 --> 01:16:44,670 have BTC pay server. And, and so she's there, she's swimming in 1171 01:16:44,670 --> 01:16:47,670 the sea of information goes into the telegram group, you know, 1172 01:16:47,700 --> 01:16:51,930 the music part, music side project, which she's got music 1173 01:16:51,930 --> 01:16:55,140 side project running successfully. Because I'm having 1174 01:16:55,140 --> 01:16:57,240 this problem with the node and the first answers that come was 1175 01:16:57,270 --> 01:17:00,540 oh, no, you should run your own node on the laptop at home. Like 1176 01:17:00,540 --> 01:17:03,810 no, no, no. So now she's confused about liquidity. And 1177 01:17:03,810 --> 01:17:06,090 you know, we have to have liquidity. So all these things. 1178 01:17:06,660 --> 01:17:10,830 Yeah, she's just, she, she's, she can't see the forest through 1179 01:17:10,830 --> 01:17:16,200 the trees. And so that really made me realize that wow, you 1180 01:17:16,200 --> 01:17:21,030 know, we have a whole lot of work and an explaining to do and 1181 01:17:21,030 --> 01:17:25,050 even the she the fundament, she doesn't fundamentally yet 1182 01:17:25,080 --> 01:17:28,320 understand that she thinks that splits come from the split kit. 1183 01:17:28,350 --> 01:17:32,400 I mean, this is all so convoluted. And no one's to 1184 01:17:32,400 --> 01:17:34,890 blame. Everyone's really trying to help and she's gotten 1185 01:17:34,920 --> 01:17:41,520 incredibly far for where she is. But she now is things Okay, 1186 01:17:41,520 --> 01:17:44,550 well, it's actually good that every song has its own feed, 1187 01:17:44,550 --> 01:17:48,330 because that's the ownership of that song. And we can we can 1188 01:17:48,330 --> 01:17:51,480 split that underneath that. And she doesn't even fundamentally 1189 01:17:51,480 --> 01:17:56,040 yet, understand that a feed has a channel level and item level, 1190 01:17:56,490 --> 01:17:57,750 and that the ownership and 1191 01:17:57,779 --> 01:18:00,599 Dave Jones: and why would she? And I No, of course not. No, no, 1192 01:18:00,689 --> 01:18:02,939 no human should under should have to understand 1193 01:18:02,970 --> 01:18:05,550 Adam Curry: exactly, exactly. And again, everyone's just being 1194 01:18:05,550 --> 01:18:09,060 super helpful. It's just the eye and I'm sitting there, my eyes 1195 01:18:09,060 --> 01:18:11,700 are swimming, like, I'm 100. I'm gonna think about this for a 1196 01:18:11,700 --> 01:18:16,140 second and come exactly do we need to do this? So there's so 1197 01:18:16,140 --> 01:18:20,730 much thinking that has to go into this, that I'm very happy, 1198 01:18:20,730 --> 01:18:25,710 we're able to onboard artists and all through this quagmire of 1199 01:18:25,710 --> 01:18:29,640 just stuff because we've been dealing with liquidity of nodes 1200 01:18:29,640 --> 01:18:35,010 for three years when we started, there was ln pay. We that was 1201 01:18:35,010 --> 01:18:38,820 it. That was it, you know, and and voltage that was ordered for 1202 01:18:38,820 --> 01:18:42,450 roll your own and all that stuff was breaking left and right as 1203 01:18:42,450 --> 01:18:51,180 well. So while al B is not sovereign, per se, you know, I 1204 01:18:51,180 --> 01:18:57,360 thank God that we have Alby and now I see the breeze SDK is 1205 01:18:57,360 --> 01:19:02,370 starting to gain some traction. So we're building all this. At 1206 01:19:02,370 --> 01:19:05,910 the same time people are coming in at a level of understanding 1207 01:19:05,910 --> 01:19:12,000 that is very far behind ours. I think that that Sam and Michael 1208 01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:15,960 at wave Lake, you know, they're just kind of coming up to speed 1209 01:19:15,960 --> 01:19:20,970 on this stuff. And you and I both kind of half right on on 1210 01:19:20,970 --> 01:19:24,270 the splits there. But really, I'm gonna take some blame for 1211 01:19:24,270 --> 01:19:30,180 this because I misunderstood what they were saying. there was 1212 01:19:30,180 --> 01:19:34,230 miscommunication everywhere. The good guys, they really want to 1213 01:19:34,230 --> 01:19:38,580 try and artists have been jerked around for really, since day 1214 01:19:38,580 --> 01:19:43,710 one, if you think about it. From day one of the Ahmed Erdogan 1215 01:19:43,710 --> 01:19:48,450 selling the records out of the trunk of his car. Artists have 1216 01:19:48,450 --> 01:19:52,650 been jerked around mainly on money. And, and if you screw it 1217 01:19:52,650 --> 01:19:55,440 up, the artists gonna say okay, that was great. That didn't 1218 01:19:55,440 --> 01:19:59,250 work. Screw those guys. I'm not interested in this V for V 1219 01:19:59,250 --> 01:20:02,730 music. I don't Right, and even just what is value for value, 1220 01:20:03,450 --> 01:20:08,820 you know, this, this, this, we need a lot of time, and a lot of 1221 01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:13,590 love and care amongst each other to make this all fit together 1222 01:20:13,590 --> 01:20:19,260 and work. And I'm certainly guilty of running, running boom, 1223 01:20:19,260 --> 01:20:22,530 let me do I took the Bookstagram ball off this week, I was like, 1224 01:20:22,560 --> 01:20:25,320 I just got to notice that I just got to recollect my thoughts 1225 01:20:25,320 --> 01:20:29,280 here for a second. Yeah, just and also I wanted to, you know, 1226 01:20:29,400 --> 01:20:32,850 just look at everything I've played, and, you know, evaluate 1227 01:20:32,850 --> 01:20:39,690 what I'm doing. So, I'm just taking this took a little 1228 01:20:39,690 --> 01:20:42,540 breather, and it was really good, because this is when I saw 1229 01:20:43,170 --> 01:20:48,240 that we are so far on the path of good, good not just for meal, 1230 01:20:48,630 --> 01:20:52,740 forget commercial goodness, just good for people and humanity, 1231 01:20:52,920 --> 01:20:57,150 and distributing joy and information, and happiness and 1232 01:20:57,150 --> 01:21:03,240 sadness and all emotions and, and words of all kinds. You 1233 01:21:03,240 --> 01:21:06,630 know, Scott Tate, you know, the the Middle East thing happened, 1234 01:21:06,630 --> 01:21:11,760 like, Oh, my God, look, everyone's spun up and their 1235 01:21:11,760 --> 01:21:14,430 people want to go to the movie theater, they're so freaked out 1236 01:21:14,430 --> 01:21:17,700 by what they saw on social media, they're afraid now, you 1237 01:21:17,700 --> 01:21:20,760 know, so all these things come into play. And like, whoa, we 1238 01:21:20,760 --> 01:21:24,780 are being controlled. We are so controlled by this whole system 1239 01:21:24,810 --> 01:21:29,070 and ourselves. Now, we still have tail bones, we have no 1240 01:21:29,070 --> 01:21:32,820 business, trying to communicate with each other on a social 1241 01:21:32,820 --> 01:21:39,450 network. That, you know, I'm so happy that we have this group of 1242 01:21:39,450 --> 01:21:43,650 people who are thoughtful. And and, and, you know, yeah, I 1243 01:21:43,650 --> 01:21:47,280 think I stumbled I think I got a little, a little weird about 1244 01:21:47,640 --> 01:21:51,930 wave Lake, you know, being one of us or whatever. But really, 1245 01:21:51,930 --> 01:21:55,230 we're all in this together. And we have to all open up and 1246 01:21:55,230 --> 01:22:00,540 listen to where we're all coming from sometimes, you know, Alex 1247 01:22:00,540 --> 01:22:03,600 gates, I'm like, he'll say something like, here's a good 1248 01:22:03,600 --> 01:22:07,260 example. And I'm saying you know, I really love booster 1249 01:22:07,260 --> 01:22:12,390 grams the way they are on on fountain, you know, that all of 1250 01:22:12,390 --> 01:22:16,380 a sudden, there's a there's a people are, you know, they're 1251 01:22:16,380 --> 01:22:18,480 reading the booster grams on fountain, they can't read it 1252 01:22:18,480 --> 01:22:23,220 anywhere else. And so we get into this, you know, the kind of 1253 01:22:23,220 --> 01:22:25,950 old cross app comments, which just hasn't taken off, and I 1254 01:22:25,950 --> 01:22:28,920 still publish them, it just hasn't taken off, they're not 1255 01:22:28,920 --> 01:22:34,260 showing up and after whatever. It's okay. And, you know, his, 1256 01:22:35,130 --> 01:22:39,240 his demeanor is, I think it's wrong for people to have to pay 1257 01:22:39,270 --> 01:22:44,880 to comment on something. Right, which is totally okay. And so, 1258 01:22:45,090 --> 01:22:48,900 it was good, because instead of thinking now, screw you, Alex 1259 01:22:48,900 --> 01:22:53,130 gates, I thought, okay, how do I, how can I work around this to 1260 01:22:53,130 --> 01:22:57,300 get what I want? Which is not really the same as comments, I 1261 01:22:57,300 --> 01:23:02,520 realized it took me a minute to think about it. And I have a 1262 01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:06,450 request for service actually, that goes along with this. Now, 1263 01:23:07,020 --> 01:23:10,110 if someone wants to create this service, I will give you a split 1264 01:23:10,140 --> 01:23:13,890 and you can you can receive value for this service that I 1265 01:23:13,890 --> 01:23:18,750 would like I would like to have a service that takes my booster 1266 01:23:18,750 --> 01:23:23,820 grams for each episode, and creates a dynamic chapter file. 1267 01:23:25,980 --> 01:23:31,350 So that booster grams appear in a chapter at the minute they 1268 01:23:31,350 --> 01:23:35,430 were sent during the listening of the podcast. So instead of 1269 01:23:35,430 --> 01:23:39,600 images preset, and even if if that boosted Graham, because 1270 01:23:39,600 --> 01:23:43,050 it's all sent in the TLV. If that boosted Graham has a link 1271 01:23:43,050 --> 01:23:46,050 to a remote item such as a song I want that to be the link. 1272 01:23:46,890 --> 01:23:50,400 Dave Jones: Oh, okay, so you're saying that the the chapter, 1273 01:23:50,670 --> 01:23:53,700 let's just say chapters in chapter or chapter title, 1274 01:23:53,759 --> 01:23:55,739 Adam Curry: yeah, the chapter title and then something in the 1275 01:23:55,739 --> 01:23:58,649 art you can dynamically generate something. So just like a 1276 01:23:58,649 --> 01:24:01,529 timeline, you know, like the timeline on SoundCloud when 1277 01:24:01,529 --> 01:24:06,569 people leave comments that so instead of the timeline, the 1278 01:24:06,569 --> 01:24:09,539 minute someone says Now of course, you know, you'll have to 1279 01:24:09,569 --> 01:24:11,639 you know, it'll be different each time you load up the 1280 01:24:11,639 --> 01:24:15,479 podcast or whatever I mean, I'm not I'm not a bit chapters seem 1281 01:24:15,479 --> 01:24:18,749 to work pretty well. I start off with a dummy chapter and then 1282 01:24:18,749 --> 01:24:21,779 dread puts chapters in later and then they show up for people who 1283 01:24:21,779 --> 01:24:25,169 get it later and everyone seems to be pretty happy. I would love 1284 01:24:25,409 --> 01:24:28,829 to have the option to say okay, my chapter file is here and that 1285 01:24:28,829 --> 01:24:31,919 chapter file is generated dynamically from a split that I 1286 01:24:31,919 --> 01:24:35,999 send to a service then the service then takes the booster 1287 01:24:35,999 --> 01:24:39,569 Graham takes the timestamp, you know does like let's just like 1288 01:24:39,569 --> 01:24:44,129 heli pad with Eric p p is done is is cool. Like, you know, put 1289 01:24:44,129 --> 01:24:48,659 some duck emojis in there if it's a to to and show that as a 1290 01:24:48,659 --> 01:24:52,439 chapter. perfectly valid use of chapters, right? 1291 01:24:53,040 --> 01:24:56,910 Dave Jones: Well, I mean, I think you could probably make I 1292 01:24:56,910 --> 01:25:01,710 think he could probably make Hello Pat do that, right? I 1293 01:25:01,710 --> 01:25:03,180 mean, because you could take your take 1294 01:25:03,210 --> 01:25:05,250 Adam Curry: Yeah, you could have an export from hell it Well, the 1295 01:25:05,250 --> 01:25:07,740 thing is it would kind of have to be dynamic because people are 1296 01:25:07,860 --> 01:25:11,580 there listening to the show. Forget the live show just I 1297 01:25:11,580 --> 01:25:14,490 released a show there should be no booster grams. So once the 1298 01:25:14,490 --> 01:25:17,790 booster grams come in, for the next person should be able to 1299 01:25:17,790 --> 01:25:23,250 see that when they load up the episode. Or may or may or may be 1300 01:25:23,250 --> 01:25:25,980 there's a pod ping event that goes out at the same time and 1301 01:25:25,980 --> 01:25:33,510 then the app knows to refresh that or whatever. So but anyway, 1302 01:25:33,510 --> 01:25:38,400 my point being because I took a step back and it wasn't my 1303 01:25:38,400 --> 01:25:42,240 hackles are weren't hackles weren't all up because of a 1304 01:25:42,240 --> 01:25:45,840 philosophical difference we have. It led me to something 1305 01:25:45,840 --> 01:25:50,910 that I think is a fun way of doing it that that has nothing 1306 01:25:50,910 --> 01:25:55,440 to do with cross app comments. I guess I'm saying we need to 1307 01:25:55,440 --> 01:25:56,940 listen and love each other more. 1308 01:25:58,410 --> 01:25:59,430 Dave Jones: I know, sweetie, 1309 01:26:00,330 --> 01:26:03,030 Adam Curry: I'm really I'm on. I'm on a love trip here, baby. 1310 01:26:05,850 --> 01:26:09,660 Dave Jones: As I think this is important for a couple of 1311 01:26:09,660 --> 01:26:14,970 reasons. It's a good discussion, because we're between phases on 1312 01:26:14,970 --> 01:26:18,210 the namespace. We got a lot of good ideas. Yes, there's some 1313 01:26:18,210 --> 01:26:21,720 things we need. We want to go in, we get we want. We want to 1314 01:26:21,720 --> 01:26:29,250 continue going forward, you know, undeniably. But there's 1315 01:26:29,250 --> 01:26:38,640 also we don't here's a there's a risk here. The risk is 1316 01:26:38,970 --> 01:26:42,390 piggybacking off what the discussion was with what Paul 1317 01:26:42,390 --> 01:26:46,080 throughout was saying. Because he went on, he said a lot more 1318 01:26:46,080 --> 01:26:49,560 that that episode was there was a lot more than that I cut out 1319 01:26:49,740 --> 01:26:53,280 about just this idea of the modifications of the internet 1320 01:26:53,280 --> 01:26:58,830 and about overload of social media and all these things. The 1321 01:26:58,830 --> 01:27:03,870 risk, I believe, is that we don't want podcasting to get 1322 01:27:03,870 --> 01:27:12,300 caught up. In what I think is an inevitable walk away. Or 1323 01:27:12,300 --> 01:27:17,400 pullback from the insurify to internet all around. 1324 01:27:17,580 --> 01:27:19,470 Adam Curry: Can the title of this episode be and should 1325 01:27:19,470 --> 01:27:20,160 ification 1326 01:27:21,180 --> 01:27:24,270 Dave Jones: I think it should be yes. Robert's Rules of orders. I 1327 01:27:24,270 --> 01:27:32,490 vote I make an MA so. Yeah. So the fully and certified internet 1328 01:27:32,490 --> 01:27:35,580 is going to make people walk away from it. Yeah, I think 1329 01:27:35,580 --> 01:27:39,240 that's already happening. There's no other explanation on 1330 01:27:39,240 --> 01:27:45,000 a large scale for some of the things we see. Now, now some 1331 01:27:45,000 --> 01:27:49,080 some things are just sort of like a downturn, their 1332 01:27:49,080 --> 01:27:53,970 financial. But I think post let's start with this. The 1333 01:27:53,970 --> 01:27:55,860 pandemic broke everybody's brain. 1334 01:27:56,430 --> 01:27:59,940 Adam Curry: Oh, we're all very, very traumatized by it. Perhaps 1335 01:27:59,940 --> 01:28:02,790 we're broken. Yeah. We're broken people. 1336 01:28:03,300 --> 01:28:06,750 Dave Jones: We are in in the brokenness, I think is 1337 01:28:06,750 --> 01:28:11,280 manifesting itself. What one thing you've seen is massive 1338 01:28:11,820 --> 01:28:18,120 travel. People are vacationing, they're getting away from in 1339 01:28:18,120 --> 01:28:22,050 mass getting away from the internet more. I've done this 1340 01:28:22,050 --> 01:28:28,680 this week. The last two weeks. I've had times like I would 1341 01:28:28,680 --> 01:28:32,730 qualify myself as a heavy podcast listener. Yeah, I'm 1342 01:28:32,730 --> 01:28:38,280 probably listened to, I don't know, two to three hours of 1343 01:28:38,280 --> 01:28:46,380 podcasts a day. Minimum. And I've that has changed for me, I 1344 01:28:46,380 --> 01:28:50,010 find it very, I'm finding it more and more difficult to 1345 01:28:50,010 --> 01:28:52,980 listen to that quantity of podcasts. I just want to take 1346 01:28:52,980 --> 01:29:00,210 the earbuds out and go and go do something else besides plug into 1347 01:29:00,210 --> 01:29:05,760 sort of the technology. And it's like the the internet needs the 1348 01:29:05,760 --> 01:29:12,750 internet is going to eventually become like, like the like your 1349 01:29:12,750 --> 01:29:15,900 electricity provider is just going to be a thing that you 1350 01:29:15,900 --> 01:29:19,290 need for certain tasks, but you're not going to live on it 1351 01:29:19,290 --> 01:29:22,650 like you used to. Right. But because we were just I think 1352 01:29:22,650 --> 01:29:26,550 we're adapting to what this thing is now and so we don't 1353 01:29:26,550 --> 01:29:32,070 want podcasting in general to become wrapped up in this I 1354 01:29:32,070 --> 01:29:36,540 think was driven the frustration now with technology. Try you 1355 01:29:36,540 --> 01:29:40,470 know try just doing something simple. And then it's like 1356 01:29:40,470 --> 01:29:43,350 somebody brought me this morning on an iPad that they they bought 1357 01:29:43,350 --> 01:29:48,090 a new one they want to they want to just set it up like their old 1358 01:29:48,090 --> 01:29:51,840 one. banging my head against the wall. This is should be a simple 1359 01:29:51,840 --> 01:29:56,370 process. It was like it took an hour and a half. Yeah. Oh your 1360 01:29:56,370 --> 01:29:59,130 passwords now you forgot your password. You gotta reset. 1361 01:29:59,130 --> 01:30:01,020 There's got to reset that. To get oh, that didn't work got a 1362 01:30:01,020 --> 01:30:04,620 bubble. It's like, you know what, at that point, there comes 1363 01:30:04,620 --> 01:30:07,050 a point of frustration where you're just like, you know, I 1364 01:30:07,050 --> 01:30:09,480 don't even want an app anymore. Just forget, I thought I did. 1365 01:30:09,960 --> 01:30:12,870 This is not worth it. This is not making my life better. It's 1366 01:30:12,870 --> 01:30:17,700 making it worse. Right? And so this walk away sort of, from 1367 01:30:17,700 --> 01:30:23,070 things. The the advertising base podcast industrial complex, is 1368 01:30:23,100 --> 01:30:28,590 if it's going to velcro itself, to the insurer edified internet 1369 01:30:29,820 --> 01:30:32,460 in a way that when people walk away, they're going to walk away 1370 01:30:32,460 --> 01:30:36,780 from podcasting, also. And that we don't want that. And if we 1371 01:30:36,780 --> 01:30:40,890 are not careful about driving the technology to levels of 1372 01:30:40,890 --> 01:30:47,520 complication, and going too fast, then we're going to also, 1373 01:30:47,850 --> 01:30:50,640 you know, we got a Velcro suit, and we're going to jump on that 1374 01:30:50,640 --> 01:30:55,380 thing, too. And we don't want that either. No, there's no, 1375 01:30:55,380 --> 01:30:56,730 just stay on it. Yeah. 1376 01:30:57,270 --> 01:31:00,120 Adam Curry: And that's a real danger. I agree. It's a real 1377 01:31:00,120 --> 01:31:00,660 danger. 1378 01:31:01,020 --> 01:31:04,530 Dave Jones: Yeah, we don't want people like, Julie, to be like, 1379 01:31:04,560 --> 01:31:08,580 hey, you know what, screw this. I've spent all day on this. And 1380 01:31:08,580 --> 01:31:09,840 I can't even get on I wrote 1381 01:31:09,840 --> 01:31:12,570 Adam Curry: in the 10,000. I wrote 10,000 words. 1382 01:31:13,920 --> 01:31:15,750 Dave Jones: 1000 words, and I still don't have a lightning 1383 01:31:15,750 --> 01:31:19,890 payment. I can't I don't know how to open a channel. You know, 1384 01:31:19,890 --> 01:31:21,390 this is we don't want this 1385 01:31:21,420 --> 01:31:24,000 Adam Curry: no stuff stuff she should never have to deal with. 1386 01:31:24,090 --> 01:31:26,100 You're not a banker. 1387 01:31:27,240 --> 01:31:30,960 Dave Jones: Right? So I think the answer really is a general 1388 01:31:30,960 --> 01:31:35,370 slowing down and focusing on the quality on tightening up the 1389 01:31:35,370 --> 01:31:42,360 things that already exist. And in enhance, you know, making 1390 01:31:42,360 --> 01:31:46,020 this thing work, making it away, because we still have podcast 1391 01:31:46,020 --> 01:31:49,650 hosts that have only done transcripts. They owe them that 1392 01:31:49,650 --> 01:31:50,940 they haven't taken step two, 1393 01:31:50,970 --> 01:31:53,730 Adam Curry: by the way. I mean, it's what's really funny is I 1394 01:31:53,730 --> 01:31:58,590 realized, that podcast mirror, which is the blueberry service, 1395 01:31:59,040 --> 01:32:02,370 I realized they have entire instructions on how to value for 1396 01:32:02,370 --> 01:32:07,470 value, enable your SoundCloud feed. I mean, it's like I don't 1397 01:32:07,470 --> 01:32:12,570 even want to tell people about that. But But I mean, how cool 1398 01:32:12,570 --> 01:32:16,920 is it, you could literally hook up an Albea wallet, to your 1399 01:32:16,920 --> 01:32:23,430 SoundCloud today and add an add it to the index and you're good 1400 01:32:23,430 --> 01:32:29,640 to go. I mean, that's another way of onboarding. But I, I I 1401 01:32:29,670 --> 01:32:34,320 have learned like No, no, that's not a good idea. We want these 1402 01:32:34,320 --> 01:32:39,690 people, these podcasters known as artists, they need hand 1403 01:32:39,690 --> 01:32:45,540 holding, they need a different way of getting in. And be right 1404 01:32:45,540 --> 01:32:50,970 slowing down is good. I mean, we've we've we've gone so balls 1405 01:32:50,970 --> 01:32:54,150 to the wall with value for value in you know, I think we have, 1406 01:32:54,420 --> 01:32:56,550 you know, what do you what, how many feeds that we have now? 1407 01:32:57,000 --> 01:32:58,830 16,000 17,000? 1408 01:32:59,010 --> 01:33:00,900 Dave Jones: Oh, I haven't even looked at pencil long. 1409 01:33:00,930 --> 01:33:02,010 Adam Curry: And where do I find that? I 1410 01:33:02,009 --> 01:33:07,469 Dave Jones: have? It's on the it's on the index? Stats, maybe? 1411 01:33:07,769 --> 01:33:12,689 No, it's not. It's on the value for value page. It loads 1412 01:33:12,689 --> 01:33:13,409 progressively. 1413 01:33:13,439 --> 01:33:18,389 Adam Curry: Yeah, not have my here. I have stats. 15,004 88 1414 01:33:18,389 --> 01:33:26,669 Yeah. So that's haven't gotten a report from our guy, Ron, about 1415 01:33:26,699 --> 01:33:32,369 the growth. But I think the 50s We've gone from 15,000 to 15,015 1416 01:33:32,369 --> 01:33:35,519 and a half 1000 has been pretty slow. Probably. 1417 01:33:36,960 --> 01:33:40,950 Dave Jones: Not sure. Yeah. Yes. He Brooklyn said we should get 1418 01:33:40,950 --> 01:33:42,630 back to mailing out physical newsletters. 1419 01:33:43,350 --> 01:33:45,780 Adam Curry: I am all for it. You know, I got a catalog in the 1420 01:33:45,780 --> 01:33:51,000 mail the other day. You read it. It's this huge catalog of mainly 1421 01:33:51,000 --> 01:33:54,960 for office supplies, but they have all kinds of stuff in it. I 1422 01:33:54,960 --> 01:33:59,700 had an enjoyable experience. I'm like, Oh, what about this chair? 1423 01:33:59,730 --> 01:34:03,180 Oh, here's a cabinet. I never knew I needed it just just 1424 01:34:03,180 --> 01:34:06,330 thumbing through the catalog. Like wow. And I don't think 1425 01:34:06,360 --> 01:34:09,570 these guys probably are onto something. They're not old 1426 01:34:09,570 --> 01:34:10,740 school. This is new. 1427 01:34:11,189 --> 01:34:15,269 Dave Jones: It's I subscribe. I now subscribe to a newspaper. 1428 01:34:16,290 --> 01:34:19,860 Adam Curry: Alright, somebody needs to do a wellness check on 1429 01:34:19,860 --> 01:34:21,060 Dave. No, 1430 01:34:21,090 --> 01:34:24,930 Dave Jones: just it's Walter Kearns newspaper. He is a 1431 01:34:24,930 --> 01:34:30,660 frequent newspaper. Yeah, it's called County Highway. And it is 1432 01:34:30,660 --> 01:34:40,590 a newspaper of of just well written stories that don't the 1433 01:34:40,590 --> 01:34:43,980 in and there it's not digital in any form. You cannot get this in 1434 01:34:43,980 --> 01:34:47,190 digital format. It doesn't exist. It only exists on paper. 1435 01:34:47,219 --> 01:34:49,409 Adam Curry: Bring back zines. Now, 1436 01:34:49,440 --> 01:34:52,560 Dave Jones: I mean, you talk I love reading this newspaper. It 1437 01:34:52,560 --> 01:34:55,110 is a fantastic experience. It makes you want a cup of coffee. 1438 01:34:55,199 --> 01:34:58,199 Adam Curry: Yeah. ULINE is called Uline 1439 01:34:58,979 --> 01:35:01,469 Dave Jones: Oh, I've seen this. Yeah. The online catalog man 1440 01:35:01,469 --> 01:35:06,179 that well it's like a phone book. It's super fun. You can 1441 01:35:06,179 --> 01:35:11,819 get if you need. If you need about 7000 feet of plastic wrap, 1442 01:35:12,209 --> 01:35:14,189 you can they they're your they're your paper. 1443 01:35:14,430 --> 01:35:17,130 Adam Curry: But there's a lot of other cool stuff in there, like 1444 01:35:17,130 --> 01:35:19,950 a gun rack for my car like, Oh, I didn't know I needed that. 1445 01:35:19,950 --> 01:35:20,700 Yeah, I don't. 1446 01:35:21,420 --> 01:35:23,220 Dave Jones: Or one of those giant tape. 1447 01:35:24,270 --> 01:35:28,950 Adam Curry: Those, those are hotspots. Like, Hey, baby, I got 1448 01:35:28,950 --> 01:35:31,320 this huge toilet bottle dispenser. 1449 01:35:34,770 --> 01:35:36,480 Dave Jones: Bubble wrap this as your head? 1450 01:35:37,979 --> 01:35:39,719 Adam Curry: Should we thank a few people since we're here we 1451 01:35:39,719 --> 01:35:42,659 can because I know you need we'll have some some time 1452 01:35:42,659 --> 01:35:44,039 leftover after we do that. 1453 01:35:44,520 --> 01:35:49,860 Dave Jones: I do but but I want to. I want to say that you are 1454 01:35:49,860 --> 01:35:54,120 right. I just want to throw you a bone here. Say you are 100% 1455 01:35:54,930 --> 01:35:59,730 correct about about you've all either the thing you've always 1456 01:35:59,730 --> 01:36:04,530 said is 50% of our advertising dollars are working. But we just 1457 01:36:04,530 --> 01:36:07,440 don't know which 50 We just don't know which half you have 1458 01:36:07,440 --> 01:36:10,290 for advertiser is that the rest for advertising? You 1459 01:36:10,500 --> 01:36:12,990 Adam Curry: know, half of my advertising money is working. I 1460 01:36:12,990 --> 01:36:15,360 just don't know which half I don't I didn't come up with. By 1461 01:36:15,360 --> 01:36:17,880 the way. That's not my it's not Adam curry original. 1462 01:36:18,269 --> 01:36:21,869 Dave Jones: The title of this article for at age, nearly half 1463 01:36:21,869 --> 01:36:28,559 the data used for ad targeting is wrong. Surprise. And it goes 1464 01:36:28,559 --> 01:36:34,589 on to describe the complete farce that is data that is data 1465 01:36:34,649 --> 01:36:39,329 ad targeting one provider, that average only 44% email postal 1466 01:36:39,329 --> 01:36:43,829 match accuracy. Overall had, you'll see oh, no, here it is. 1467 01:36:44,699 --> 01:36:49,169 Average accuracy, accuracy among data providers ranged from 32% 1468 01:36:49,169 --> 01:36:52,889 to 69%. Wow, they don't know what they're doing now. Is this 1469 01:36:52,889 --> 01:36:56,399 all a big force? So thanks for people. 1470 01:36:56,489 --> 01:37:00,119 Adam Curry: Yes. And, and I will say value for value works 1471 01:37:00,149 --> 01:37:03,929 doesn't all have to be Satoshis. But as we heard Paul throt say I 1472 01:37:03,929 --> 01:37:07,859 just want to be easy. We have created this easy way. In the in 1473 01:37:07,859 --> 01:37:10,859 the new podcast app. So I was appreciative of James his 1474 01:37:11,459 --> 01:37:19,589 explanation, that it's just a fair ground token. Value for 1475 01:37:19,589 --> 01:37:22,289 value. It's it's not crypto. It's a fair ground token. 1476 01:37:22,680 --> 01:37:25,740 Dave Jones: Okay. corndog fun, okay. Hey, 1477 01:37:25,769 --> 01:37:28,559 Adam Curry: I actually take the SATs that I earned and we buy B 1478 01:37:28,559 --> 01:37:31,949 from Kane c capital with it. You know, I feel very powerful each 1479 01:37:31,949 --> 01:37:35,099 time I do that say thank you boosters. I really do. I was 1480 01:37:35,099 --> 01:37:35,399 very 1481 01:37:35,790 --> 01:37:38,670 Dave Jones: zoomed in. I can see cattle ordering their shipping 1482 01:37:38,670 --> 01:37:41,820 went through the roof for about two months. And then then now 1483 01:37:41,820 --> 01:37:43,380 it's come back down to delivery. 1484 01:37:44,250 --> 01:37:47,550 Adam Curry: That's a direct pass through. That's up I don't know 1485 01:37:47,550 --> 01:37:47,700 what 1486 01:37:47,700 --> 01:37:49,920 Dave Jones: happened. I don't know why when afraid when I went 1487 01:37:49,920 --> 01:37:52,800 from like 100 bucks up to like 400 or something. I was like, 1488 01:37:52,800 --> 01:37:53,190 Yeah, 1489 01:37:53,279 --> 01:37:55,679 Adam Curry: but if you go to if you go to beef initiative.com 1490 01:37:55,709 --> 01:38:00,929 You can find an exact similar rancher near you in Alabama, and 1491 01:38:00,929 --> 01:38:03,149 they'll ship it there'll be much cheaper shipping, you could even 1492 01:38:03,149 --> 01:38:04,409 go there and pick it up yourself 1493 01:38:05,640 --> 01:38:07,530 Dave Jones: and have to leave the house and stuff. 1494 01:38:08,159 --> 01:38:10,619 Adam Curry: Your truck would make so much sense driving onto 1495 01:38:10,619 --> 01:38:12,029 the ranch. Like hey, 1496 01:38:12,029 --> 01:38:14,669 Dave Jones: there's one of us. That may give me a discount. 1497 01:38:15,930 --> 01:38:18,240 Adam Curry: What came in during this live show for some reason I 1498 01:38:18,240 --> 01:38:20,100 didn't hear any pew pew is I don't know why that what 1499 01:38:20,100 --> 01:38:24,720 happened there. We got 5000 SATs from Eric and love you guys 1500 01:38:24,720 --> 01:38:26,580 trying to make my own music podcast. Thanks for the 1501 01:38:26,580 --> 01:38:31,440 inspiration. We need those we definitely need. Oh, just quick 1502 01:38:31,440 --> 01:38:35,700 little update question. Have you had any any chance to work on 1503 01:38:35,700 --> 01:38:37,890 the remote items stuff in the API? 1504 01:38:40,920 --> 01:38:45,870 Dave Jones: I started to and then I had to I had to try to 1505 01:38:45,870 --> 01:38:47,280 figure out if I could do this 1506 01:38:50,670 --> 01:38:53,040 Adam Curry: distributed distributed polling 1507 01:38:53,220 --> 01:38:57,240 Dave Jones: yeah the x yeah export a copy of the non sure 1508 01:38:57,240 --> 01:39:00,960 feature. It is right around the corner like I'm going to start 1509 01:39:00,960 --> 01:39:02,190 it within the next day or so as 1510 01:39:02,189 --> 01:39:06,419 Adam Curry: always this just go go as you can brother. I have 1511 01:39:06,419 --> 01:39:09,509 learned now easy slow, steady as she goes. 1512 01:39:09,780 --> 01:39:12,690 Dave Jones: Steady. It is it is it is right it is on the 1513 01:39:12,690 --> 01:39:14,850 immediate do list yes okay. 1514 01:39:16,170 --> 01:39:20,640 Adam Curry: 6333 from shred word who says I'm boosting for Dad 1515 01:39:20,640 --> 01:39:24,030 door full who is listening from the roof of Sir TJ the raffle 1516 01:39:24,180 --> 01:39:27,960 he's putting on a new roof for us. I and shred word I shred 1517 01:39:27,960 --> 01:39:30,390 word live in the top floor apartment of T Jay's house 1518 01:39:30,420 --> 01:39:31,860 because he's got capital. 1519 01:39:32,399 --> 01:39:34,949 Dave Jones: That's an Isaac Asimov book right I should 1520 01:39:36,300 --> 01:39:38,640 Adam Curry: Oh, I guess you're right I didn't I didn't even 1521 01:39:38,640 --> 01:39:39,390 connect that 1522 01:39:39,420 --> 01:39:42,600 Dave Jones: I Robot. That was an AI robot. 1523 01:39:42,960 --> 01:39:46,200 Adam Curry: Like it. Actually I wanted to play a doorbells. 1524 01:39:46,200 --> 01:39:50,550 We're running out of time. Dobby daSun whoa dwelve let's get 1525 01:39:50,550 --> 01:39:53,340 through these Dobby das 5000 SATs I've been working nonstop 1526 01:39:53,370 --> 01:39:57,420 on bringing music shows to RSS blue. Most of the prerequisites 1527 01:39:57,420 --> 01:39:59,970 are ready hoped to have it finished in two weeks time ah 1528 01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:04,380 Adobe does love you love you love you love you. I can't wait 1529 01:40:04,380 --> 01:40:08,520 to send all my DJ friends to you. I really can't that'll be 1530 01:40:08,520 --> 01:40:12,180 that I'm so excited by that. Adobe does send us another 1531 01:40:12,180 --> 01:40:15,480 10,000 sets and says Happy Birthday podcasting. 2.0 Is it 1532 01:40:15,480 --> 01:40:16,080 our birthday? 1533 01:40:16,739 --> 01:40:19,109 Dave Jones: 100 video episodes. Oh, hey, 1534 01:40:19,109 --> 01:40:19,859 Adam Curry: happy birthday. 1535 01:40:20,399 --> 01:40:21,599 Dave Jones: It's our 150th birthday. 1536 01:40:21,870 --> 01:40:25,710 Adam Curry: Happy birthday. And then we're sad. Oh, I bet you 1537 01:40:25,710 --> 01:40:28,350 know it's funny when you when you attend a party and don't 1538 01:40:28,350 --> 01:40:34,500 even realize this for you, as Dred Scott says 150,000 SATs to 1539 01:40:34,500 --> 01:40:35,940 celebrate episode 150 1540 01:40:37,050 --> 01:40:40,860 Unknown: Sakala 20 is Blaze only Impala. 1541 01:40:41,220 --> 01:40:43,920 Adam Curry: He says thanks for letting this non developer find 1542 01:40:43,920 --> 01:40:48,120 a way to be involved go podcasting. Thank you Drib gets 1543 01:40:48,120 --> 01:40:53,070 it Thank you brother so much. Thank you so much man. And 1544 01:40:53,070 --> 01:40:56,160 that's what came in during the live show. Oh, we got one last 1545 01:40:56,160 --> 01:41:07,650 one up is a donut my my jingle here it is. 777 77 We call that 1546 01:41:07,650 --> 01:41:13,110 a striper boost from Sir TJ the wrathful says and I love the 1547 01:41:13,110 --> 01:41:19,170 little Eric peepee inspired Hallo emoji there for the 7777 I 1548 01:41:19,170 --> 01:41:25,020 freaking hate you lines please stop. Now V four v magazines I'd 1549 01:41:25,020 --> 01:41:28,740 be happy to do oh he's a mail carrier V for V magazines. I'd 1550 01:41:28,740 --> 01:41:31,110 be happy to deliver your friendly neighborhood music 1551 01:41:31,110 --> 01:41:34,530 making make mail carrier wrathful doorsill Should we play 1552 01:41:34,530 --> 01:41:37,590 should we play this little doorbells? I think we should. 1553 01:41:37,590 --> 01:41:43,290 Yeah. Because I love their podcast into the door full verse 1554 01:41:43,290 --> 01:41:47,340 and they are just sitting around as a family as a family imagine 1555 01:41:47,340 --> 01:41:51,030 that it still happens sitting around as a family and they say 1556 01:41:51,030 --> 01:41:54,360 you know why don't we just do one of our songs live we'll just 1557 01:41:54,360 --> 01:41:59,040 do bloodshot lies live and we'll just sing it live and we'll play 1558 01:41:59,040 --> 01:42:01,980 it live and and they did and I'd like to share that with 1559 01:42:01,980 --> 01:42:05,370 everybody because it blew and they're in the garage like 1560 01:42:05,370 --> 01:42:11,610 plugged in unplug the door falls unplug one two 1561 01:42:30,479 --> 01:42:34,589 Unknown: it was mom and dad you're on your phone now welcome 1562 01:42:34,589 --> 01:42:40,409 all the voices saying that you're not too many too many 1563 01:42:40,409 --> 01:42:46,439 causes when you lose yourself getting known and and fine can't 1564 01:42:46,439 --> 01:42:50,549 believe in all the filters that you've chosen through can hide 1565 01:42:50,549 --> 01:42:56,999 the real inside the person that so many story lines tangled up 1566 01:42:56,999 --> 01:42:59,729 inside with what you think is true 1567 01:43:00,599 --> 01:43:03,629 I don't even grow with you now 1568 01:43:22,890 --> 01:43:34,860 get you get you keep telling me all these birds shot you 1569 01:43:40,199 --> 01:43:51,389 any livan away to see through all the broken glass to all 1570 01:43:51,389 --> 01:44:04,829 those Saturday Friday as the storms blew by it was just I 1571 01:44:05,249 --> 01:44:08,009 don't even now 1572 01:44:13,350 --> 01:44:13,950 because 1573 01:44:24,689 --> 01:44:27,959 a minor was it goodbye 1574 01:44:33,210 --> 01:44:36,750 You can tell them all these guys shot 1575 01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:14,310 Do all the promises you wasted on your youth You told so many 1576 01:45:14,310 --> 01:45:19,890 lies you believe it it's the truth you gonna be if that's 1577 01:45:19,890 --> 01:45:29,760 more important is that more important I don't even 1578 01:45:37,890 --> 01:45:51,990 know good bye 1579 01:45:59,069 --> 01:45:59,579 all these 1580 01:46:02,220 --> 01:46:07,080 Adam Curry: things oh yeah, other than me stepping on 1581 01:46:07,080 --> 01:46:13,140 yourself. Oh, it was great that shit gives me goosebumps, man. 1582 01:46:13,470 --> 01:46:15,840 Love it just goosebumps. 1583 01:46:16,260 --> 01:46:19,320 Dave Jones: It just reminds you of the old of like Eric Clapton 1584 01:46:19,320 --> 01:46:20,790 and blood they'll do what MTV 1585 01:46:20,850 --> 01:46:24,150 Adam Curry: Unplugged. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Love it, but I 1586 01:46:24,150 --> 01:46:28,080 love this a family. You have to do it together. The whole story 1587 01:46:28,080 --> 01:46:32,370 is just so good. So good. That's what I want. We need more of 1588 01:46:32,370 --> 01:46:32,970 that. 1589 01:46:33,840 --> 01:46:35,340 Dave Jones: Yeah, I love it, man. 1590 01:46:36,720 --> 01:46:39,420 Adam Curry: And back, back to the booster grabs. Here we go. 1591 01:46:40,140 --> 01:46:42,690 We're gonna pick the hell out. Oh, okay. Yes, indeed. We get. 1592 01:46:42,900 --> 01:46:46,290 Dave Jones: We get a big one. From Benjamin Richardson and 1593 01:46:46,290 --> 01:46:49,020 Alberto botella. From maurices.com. these's they send 1594 01:46:49,020 --> 01:46:52,500 us $1,234 1595 01:46:52,559 --> 01:46:55,529 Adam Curry: whole Lee macro. 1596 01:46:56,459 --> 01:47:00,209 Unknown: Sakala 20 is Blaze only Impala. 1597 01:47:00,510 --> 01:47:04,290 Adam Curry: You guys, thank you so much. You keep you guys the 1598 01:47:04,290 --> 01:47:07,410 hosting companies, man. They do so well on keeping this rolling. 1599 01:47:07,920 --> 01:47:14,280 Dave Jones: Yeah. And as you know, they're the IPFS stuff in 1600 01:47:14,310 --> 01:47:17,760 there. They're not just insular. They're not just looking into 1601 01:47:17,760 --> 01:47:21,600 themselves. I mean, don't know exactly what they're looking at. 1602 01:47:21,600 --> 01:47:24,240 They're looking, you know, the reason they the reason that 1603 01:47:24,240 --> 01:47:29,160 rss.com sends us you know, $1,000 is because they see 1604 01:47:29,190 --> 01:47:32,490 they're they're marching beside us towards what we're just 1605 01:47:32,490 --> 01:47:36,030 talking about on the show. Like we've got to have a we got to 1606 01:47:36,030 --> 01:47:39,090 push this thing broad it's got to go it's got to go wide 1607 01:47:39,090 --> 01:47:39,840 instead of 1608 01:47:40,410 --> 01:47:42,540 Adam Curry: and I was I was just thinking you know, it's like 1609 01:47:43,170 --> 01:47:46,860 just jumping ahead three steps of course, but it's like that 1610 01:47:46,860 --> 01:47:50,070 service I just talked about or even even sovereign feats, you 1611 01:47:50,070 --> 01:47:53,490 know, if I could run that on my own start nine, I'd still cut 1612 01:47:53,490 --> 01:47:57,270 Steve and be in for 10% You know, sure. Just because it's 1613 01:47:57,300 --> 01:48:00,210 you know, it's not about bandwidth anymore. It's about 1614 01:48:00,210 --> 01:48:03,750 the creativity the service you know, the updates the upgrading 1615 01:48:03,750 --> 01:48:08,310 keeping it you know, the the features it's like that's how it 1616 01:48:08,310 --> 01:48:12,120 works about this point my my shows I give away more than half 1617 01:48:12,150 --> 01:48:12,960 of the value. 1618 01:48:14,069 --> 01:48:18,629 Dave Jones: Yeah. If you got like 20 splits in there. No, 1619 01:48:18,629 --> 01:48:18,929 it's gonna 1620 01:48:19,830 --> 01:48:23,190 Adam Curry: know so far it hasn't. That's the beauty of it. 1621 01:48:23,280 --> 01:48:27,600 As far as I know. Now, you know, it's it's fantastic like 50% of 1622 01:48:27,600 --> 01:48:30,810 most of my shows now are going somewhere else and I love it. 1623 01:48:31,800 --> 01:48:34,410 Dave Jones: Benjamin Richardson says, Adam and Dave we are 1624 01:48:34,410 --> 01:48:37,140 grateful to everyone in the podcast and 2.0 community for 1625 01:48:37,140 --> 01:48:39,930 all the time talent and treasure they freely give back to the 1626 01:48:39,930 --> 01:48:45,000 project we love what it means to be a two way loves love what it 1627 01:48:45,000 --> 01:48:48,180 means to podcasting podcasters and listeners from your 1628 01:48:48,180 --> 01:48:50,520 friends@rss.com go podcast go 1629 01:48:52,859 --> 01:48:53,549 Unknown: yeah 1630 01:48:56,729 --> 01:48:59,399 Dave Jones: see we've got and we've got an autumn a new 1631 01:48:59,399 --> 01:49:03,539 subscriber automatic payment $1 from Yaren Rosenstein thank you 1632 01:49:03,539 --> 01:49:04,229 for the subscription 1633 01:49:04,229 --> 01:49:05,699 Adam Curry: you yarn Yeah, 1634 01:49:06,149 --> 01:49:08,639 Dave Jones: we've got some booster grams for sure we got 1635 01:49:08,639 --> 01:49:13,559 3658 from the tone Rick, thank you Tom record it if you found 1636 01:49:13,559 --> 01:49:16,619 any says a value amount amount determined not to have any 1637 01:49:16,619 --> 01:49:19,769 associated references or messages other than things. 1638 01:49:19,949 --> 01:49:23,279 Adam Curry: Thank you. And don't numerology involves 1639 01:49:24,569 --> 01:49:27,119 Dave Jones: Todd Cochran 100,000 says he says Ask and You Shall 1640 01:49:27,119 --> 01:49:30,209 Receive we are working on adding more 2.0 features go podcasting? 1641 01:49:30,239 --> 01:49:32,129 FYI not grumpy yet. 1642 01:49:34,620 --> 01:49:36,510 Adam Curry: I think we played I think we read that one on the 1643 01:49:36,510 --> 01:49:39,360 last show actually. Might have come in live. Yeah. Might have 1644 01:49:39,360 --> 01:49:41,640 come in live. We did that one. possibly. 1645 01:49:41,760 --> 01:49:44,550 Dave Jones: Possibly. Maybe it was alive. Okay. 1646 01:49:45,689 --> 01:49:47,519 Adam Curry: Thank you, Josh. Thank you so much. I know you're 1647 01:49:47,519 --> 01:49:53,099 not grumpy yet. If Todd celebrated 19 years Oh, wait, 1648 01:49:53,099 --> 01:49:57,359 I'm gonna have podcasting and he's on. He's on the Todd 1649 01:49:57,359 --> 01:50:00,779 Cochran the you know, she's a big value for value. promotor 1650 01:50:00,779 --> 01:50:04,919 man, he was on that pod news weekly review. Good interview 1651 01:50:04,919 --> 01:50:05,519 with Sam. 1652 01:50:05,940 --> 01:50:08,250 Dave Jones: haven't got there yet. Oh, it's great, like 15 1653 01:50:08,250 --> 01:50:09,930 minutes into a certain part. He 1654 01:50:09,930 --> 01:50:11,460 Adam Curry: said, I'm sitting here. Listen, I'm getting ready 1655 01:50:11,460 --> 01:50:14,460 for the show. And he's like, I mean, alpha Valley Valley, 1656 01:50:14,460 --> 01:50:16,710 you've got to train your audience. And he's, oh, hold on 1657 01:50:16,710 --> 01:50:19,500 a second. He says, I think people just cringe when I said 1658 01:50:19,500 --> 01:50:22,440 that you don't train your audience. And I was just yelling 1659 01:50:22,440 --> 01:50:25,680 at my at my phone. You don't train your audience taught and 1660 01:50:25,800 --> 01:50:26,610 he corrected 1661 01:50:26,610 --> 01:50:29,370 Dave Jones: himself. I love the trimmer in the pores. 1662 01:50:30,300 --> 01:50:33,930 Adam Curry: No, but he's he he's he's he gets it. $10,000 in like 1663 01:50:33,930 --> 01:50:39,150 four months to blueberry podcast podcasters to value for value 1664 01:50:39,150 --> 01:50:41,160 with Satoshis it's pretty amazing. 1665 01:50:42,180 --> 01:50:45,420 Dave Jones: To see drips, God said, Did we get the row of 1666 01:50:45,420 --> 01:50:49,560 ducks Inception boost? 22 to 22? 1667 01:50:50,220 --> 01:50:52,440 Adam Curry: I'm not sure. Well, we 1668 01:50:52,439 --> 01:50:54,569 Dave Jones: got it through pod verse. Thank you, Dr. Scott. 1669 01:50:54,569 --> 01:50:54,719 Thank 1670 01:50:54,719 --> 01:50:55,589 Adam Curry: you so much, Dr. 1671 01:50:56,460 --> 01:51:01,110 Dave Jones: Jean bein 2222 through cast ematic he says if 1672 01:51:01,110 --> 01:51:04,500 you all could solve some of the linking and indexing of person 1673 01:51:04,500 --> 01:51:07,950 tags, I think that would remove some barriers of adoption by 1674 01:51:07,950 --> 01:51:12,270 hosts like bus route. Well, bus route does the person tag. They 1675 01:51:12,270 --> 01:51:12,960 do that already? 1676 01:51:13,890 --> 01:51:16,110 Adam Curry: Maybe it's talking about cross referencing and 1677 01:51:16,110 --> 01:51:20,160 linking and like how many times what other podcasts is this 1678 01:51:20,160 --> 01:51:26,700 person appeared on? Or do they host kind of remote Remote 1679 01:51:26,700 --> 01:51:31,710 Reference a remote item or not? I guess not. Yeah, I don't think 1680 01:51:31,710 --> 01:51:33,720 so. No. Okay. That 1681 01:51:34,859 --> 01:51:36,749 Dave Jones: okay, maybe Yeah, I think you're right talking about 1682 01:51:36,749 --> 01:51:39,209 the stuff we were talking about last week where you link between 1683 01:51:39,269 --> 01:51:43,469 the where you pull the remote you follow the Remote Reference 1684 01:51:43,469 --> 01:51:46,019 get the person from it and then pull it back in. Although 1685 01:51:47,040 --> 01:51:50,970 Adam Curry: if the curry.com RSS feed, technically could be a 1686 01:51:50,970 --> 01:51:58,500 remote item What do you mean? If my if my identity was an RSS 1687 01:51:58,500 --> 01:52:02,640 feed? Am I Am I taking this too far now? 1688 01:52:02,670 --> 01:52:06,570 Dave Jones: Oh, I see. SAE like where's the link in the the link 1689 01:52:06,570 --> 01:52:09,000 in the tag goes to an RSS feed? Not 1690 01:52:09,029 --> 01:52:11,519 Adam Curry: Yeah, I would have eyes a person. I would have a 1691 01:52:11,519 --> 01:52:13,049 GUID. Yeah, 1692 01:52:13,080 --> 01:52:17,460 Dave Jones: this is the I mean, this is this is SOP ml. Yeah. 1693 01:52:18,180 --> 01:52:21,660 Adam Curry: All over again. Back to freedom controller. Right? 1694 01:52:21,660 --> 01:52:22,110 Yes. 1695 01:52:23,370 --> 01:52:25,140 Dave Jones: Yeah. Okay. One day 1696 01:52:25,170 --> 01:52:28,170 Adam Curry: One day, we know we do and I know eventually we'll 1697 01:52:28,170 --> 01:52:30,450 wind up there eventually we're all going to be freedom 1698 01:52:30,450 --> 01:52:33,210 controller. Yep. In a PWA 1699 01:52:34,949 --> 01:52:38,639 Dave Jones: in a PWA Jean being 2222 Again, thank you, Jamie 1700 01:52:38,639 --> 01:52:42,119 says Busuu I think I've heard Mitch talk about the indexing of 1701 01:52:42,119 --> 01:52:46,739 person tags being a problem for the pod for pod verse. I think 1702 01:52:46,739 --> 01:52:51,149 that may have to do with just the lack of a Gu Id like a sort 1703 01:52:51,149 --> 01:52:55,649 of a universal identifier for the person tag which I admit is 1704 01:52:55,679 --> 01:53:01,319 is something you know simplicity was the was the driving force of 1705 01:53:01,319 --> 01:53:05,339 the the early tags and if you have to have you know if you 1706 01:53:05,339 --> 01:53:07,889 have to think about those things boom, but we may need to revisit 1707 01:53:07,889 --> 01:53:12,539 that I agree. All right. Karen is a mere mortals podcast also 1708 01:53:12,539 --> 01:53:17,699 2222 Road ducks nice big, big one today. To found he says Just 1709 01:53:17,699 --> 01:53:20,819 to clarify Adam, it wouldn't be on the mere mortals podcast but 1710 01:53:20,819 --> 01:53:23,069 obviously would talk a lot about V for me. Oh, 1711 01:53:23,069 --> 01:53:25,049 Adam Curry: that's right. No, yes. No, I'd say that would be 1712 01:53:25,049 --> 01:53:27,479 on the value for value podcast was mere mortals I 1713 01:53:27,479 --> 01:53:30,239 Dave Jones: got okay. I'm nowhere near ready to attend a 1714 01:53:30,239 --> 01:53:33,539 live interviews. Don't think I ever would want to actually that 1715 01:53:33,539 --> 01:53:35,249 seems like a nightmare of complex. 1716 01:53:35,279 --> 01:53:38,219 Adam Curry: Oh my goodness, it's so easy for you Kira. And you're 1717 01:53:38,219 --> 01:53:41,549 a great conversationalist. You don't have to edit anything. 1718 01:53:41,549 --> 01:53:45,149 Yeah, yeah. I mean, next week Tina's out of town let's do it 1719 01:53:45,149 --> 01:53:47,489 next week. We'll and we'll do it live 1720 01:53:48,600 --> 01:53:51,060 Dave Jones: there you go. There's your practice around the 1721 01:53:51,060 --> 01:53:55,830 Chris You know 19 810 says through pod verse says 1981 1722 01:53:55,830 --> 01:53:59,640 boost for the year Trivial Pursuit came out my wife non 1723 01:53:59,640 --> 01:54:03,000 trivial pursuit with the answer of Adam curry tonight from 1724 01:54:03,000 --> 01:54:06,390 hearing this podcast on in the in the background often enough. 1725 01:54:06,750 --> 01:54:10,140 She had to teach her dad what a VJ was. Oh, okay. 1726 01:54:10,229 --> 01:54:12,329 Adam Curry: Oh, yeah, I'm a trivial pursuit question. This 1727 01:54:12,329 --> 01:54:15,539 happened a long time ago. That's right. Oh, are you Yeah, you 1728 01:54:15,539 --> 01:54:17,999 know you've got a made when your Trivial Pursuit question unless 1729 01:54:17,999 --> 01:54:19,649 it has something to do with your death 1730 01:54:24,090 --> 01:54:27,000 Dave Jones: that's no good. Yeah. Karen again for the mere 1731 01:54:27,000 --> 01:54:29,490 mortals podcast. He says boosting as a test for the V for 1732 01:54:29,490 --> 01:54:31,950 V app show running through. Okay. 1733 01:54:32,040 --> 01:54:34,860 Adam Curry: Okay. Tests received and worked. They weren't five by 1734 01:54:34,859 --> 01:54:39,929 Dave Jones: five. Franco 10,000 sets. The song on a podcast was 1735 01:54:39,929 --> 01:54:44,129 from cruise box. All this music. Oh, switching technology stuff 1736 01:54:44,129 --> 01:54:47,159 makes me think about rebooting rock cast Italia. 1737 01:54:47,519 --> 01:54:49,169 Adam Curry: Cruise box. 1738 01:54:49,410 --> 01:54:50,670 Dave Jones: What is that? Oh, the 1739 01:54:50,670 --> 01:54:53,160 Adam Curry: Oh, hold on Santa Cruz box. 1740 01:54:53,460 --> 01:54:55,020 Dave Jones: He's got a link here. Do you want me to get 1741 01:54:55,020 --> 01:54:55,470 this? Yeah. Oh, 1742 01:54:55,470 --> 01:54:57,390 Adam Curry: send me the link. Are you kidding me? This is the 1743 01:54:57,390 --> 01:55:00,000 song that I was singing that I couldn't find. You gotta keep 1744 01:55:00,000 --> 01:55:03,330 Didn't signal real quick. Yep, it was so but this was pointed 1745 01:55:03,330 --> 01:55:06,450 up when we had the pod that we had the podsafe Music Network 1746 01:55:06,450 --> 01:55:11,700 which was you know, pre V for V obviously, but see if this oh my 1747 01:55:11,700 --> 01:55:15,240 goodness, okay, you gotta gotta just listen to this for a second 1748 01:55:18,570 --> 01:55:23,040 oh my god, I can't believe I'm hearing this. This is from like, 1749 01:55:23,040 --> 01:55:28,650 2006 when we were thinking of rebooting the music industry, it 1750 01:55:28,650 --> 01:55:30,390 was all a practice run everybody 1751 01:55:32,819 --> 01:55:38,159 Unknown: remember, way back last summer when mainstream radio was 1752 01:55:38,159 --> 01:55:39,239 such a fucking 1753 01:55:41,279 --> 01:55:46,439 music nothing's funny. Clear Channel buggers 1754 01:55:51,270 --> 01:55:52,440 Adam Curry: here's the here's the hook 1755 01:55:52,470 --> 01:55:59,700 Unknown: now you should have heard it on a rock and fucking 1756 01:56:02,520 --> 01:56:03,510 just download the 1757 01:56:04,800 --> 01:56:10,470 podcast no one's gonna stop it. FCC to stick in 1758 01:56:13,080 --> 01:56:17,610 Adam Curry: the revolutions on I'm so happy I found that Oh, we 1759 01:56:17,610 --> 01:56:20,670 got to get that we got to get that up on value for value 1760 01:56:20,760 --> 01:56:27,840 someone reached out to was Lucas Lucas. Lucas I think who did 1761 01:56:27,840 --> 01:56:32,160 that song. Wow, man. Thank you. I needed to hear that. 1762 01:56:32,820 --> 01:56:35,100 Dave Jones: Did you get home did you get that bundle of ISOs I 1763 01:56:35,100 --> 01:56:35,310 say 1764 01:56:35,670 --> 01:56:39,630 Adam Curry: yes. You mean grab bag of ISOs I don't even know I 1765 01:56:39,630 --> 01:56:42,690 don't even know what to use is so much. I haven't listened to 1766 01:56:42,900 --> 01:56:43,800 all of them yet. 1767 01:56:44,220 --> 01:56:46,710 Dave Jones: AGIS we've done 150 episodes I went back and pulled 1768 01:56:46,710 --> 01:56:50,250 all the ISOs that we've played in the past we've used these 1769 01:56:50,430 --> 01:56:54,150 Adam Curry: yes yes my favorite was this one. I just got five 1770 01:56:54,150 --> 01:56:54,930 Satoshis 1771 01:56:59,939 --> 01:57:01,499 Dave Jones: bundled that together for you because 1772 01:57:01,499 --> 01:57:05,069 sometimes on no agenda you Oh show up and you don't have any 1773 01:57:05,069 --> 01:57:10,799 so this is you break the glass. The handle and grab a randomizer 1774 01:57:10,859 --> 01:57:14,189 Unknown: Oh, I love this giving people power and expecting them 1775 01:57:14,189 --> 01:57:17,399 to be disciplined about it is completely insane. Yeah. 1776 01:57:20,370 --> 01:57:22,350 Adam Curry: Thank you. I like appreciate that. 1777 01:57:22,830 --> 01:57:24,840 Dave Jones: Thanks, Franco. Appreciate that. Man. That's a 1778 01:57:24,900 --> 01:57:26,250 blast from the past comic strip 1779 01:57:26,250 --> 01:57:28,650 Adam Curry: blogger areas delimiter limiter 1780 01:57:29,790 --> 01:57:33,330 Dave Jones: 30 3015. Through fountain he says. Now the 1781 01:57:33,330 --> 01:57:38,250 podcast index LLC team Dave and Adam. Get unplugged with my 1782 01:57:38,250 --> 01:57:42,960 Slavic bro John C. Dvorak and his multimillionaire pal Andrew 1783 01:57:42,960 --> 01:57:49,500 Horowitz. On DHA unplugged podcast, your weekly digest of 1784 01:57:49,500 --> 01:57:54,720 market antics, and economic musings. It's available at www 1785 01:57:54,720 --> 01:57:59,760 dot d h unplugged.com. Stay ahead of the market curve with d 1786 01:57:59,760 --> 01:58:02,280 h unplugged. Yo CSB. 1787 01:58:02,310 --> 01:58:05,430 Adam Curry: Thank you CSB. Oh, I love the HM plug. That's first 1788 01:58:05,430 --> 01:58:06,630 one of my most listens. 1789 01:58:07,050 --> 01:58:10,050 Dave Jones: Yeah. In the the fact that he's still not valued 1790 01:58:10,050 --> 01:58:12,210 for value. Just you. 1791 01:58:14,699 --> 01:58:16,559 Adam Curry: I mean, they do donations. I know they do 1792 01:58:16,559 --> 01:58:21,239 donations. Now. No. I mean, he keeps saying hey, I should do 1793 01:58:21,239 --> 01:58:24,629 that. But his eyes glaze over. I'll get to one. 1794 01:58:24,660 --> 01:58:28,020 Dave Jones: Is he still on? Feedburner? Yes. Yeah, that's 1795 01:58:28,020 --> 01:58:30,210 Adam Curry: the main problem. He's on Feedburner that's 1796 01:58:30,210 --> 01:58:31,380 exactly the problem. 1797 01:58:31,410 --> 01:58:34,350 Dave Jones: He can go to podcast mirror now because they that's 1798 01:58:34,350 --> 01:58:36,360 that's the feed burner killer. Right? 1799 01:58:36,750 --> 01:58:39,000 Adam Curry: I'm going to forget it. I'm gonna suggest it to but 1800 01:58:39,000 --> 01:58:47,940 then he'll probably be like five bucks. Just stick it Yeah. 1801 01:58:48,390 --> 01:58:51,300 Dave Jones: Yeah. Is 27 F bombs 1802 01:58:52,109 --> 01:58:53,699 Unknown: on a podcast? 1803 01:58:55,050 --> 01:58:59,790 Dave Jones: Basil fill at $25 Thanks, basil. Pod verse. $50 1804 01:58:59,790 --> 01:59:05,370 Thank you, Mitch. much, brother. Yeah. Lauren ball. $24.20 Thank 1805 01:59:05,370 --> 01:59:09,870 you, Lauren. At Michigan. $10. How Mitch? Christopher 1806 01:59:09,870 --> 01:59:11,430 hyperbaric $10 So 1807 01:59:11,430 --> 01:59:14,520 Adam Curry: we need to forbid Mitch from from putting any 1808 01:59:14,520 --> 01:59:17,970 money in right now. He's quit his job to do this. Now. Save 1809 01:59:17,970 --> 01:59:22,110 it. Yeah. Three months come back in three months. Yeah, come back 1810 01:59:22,110 --> 01:59:24,270 in three months and three months? Yeah. 1811 01:59:25,260 --> 01:59:29,580 Dave Jones: Christopher Harbach. Hara Barak $10. Terry Keller $5 1812 01:59:29,580 --> 01:59:35,760 Chris Cohen. $5 Jeremy Kevin. All $10 Daymond Cassie Jack $15 1813 01:59:36,180 --> 01:59:42,030 Derek J Vickery. $21. Thank you, Derek and Paul Saltzman $22.22. 1814 01:59:42,030 --> 01:59:42,660 Thank you. Oh, 1815 01:59:42,690 --> 01:59:45,720 Adam Curry: yes, thank you all very much for contributing value 1816 01:59:45,720 --> 01:59:49,560 back to the podcast time, talent or treasure. Obviously, most of 1817 01:59:49,560 --> 01:59:51,960 the people listening are contributing with time and 1818 01:59:51,960 --> 01:59:54,930 talent. The treasure you heard Dred Scott he says this is a 1819 01:59:54,930 --> 01:59:58,350 great way for me as a non non developer to still be able to 1820 01:59:58,350 --> 02:00:01,380 participate in the entire process. So we really appreciate 1821 02:00:01,410 --> 02:00:05,670 you and everybody else. You can also go to podcasts index.org. 1822 02:00:05,670 --> 02:00:09,450 Down at the bottom, we have our own to read buttons. But you 1823 02:00:09,450 --> 02:00:11,460 know, someone doesn't get cancelled when you press that 1824 02:00:11,460 --> 02:00:15,360 one No. Instead, one allows you to go to tally coin, where you 1825 02:00:15,360 --> 02:00:18,870 can support us with unchained Bitcoin. Last time that was done 1826 02:00:18,870 --> 02:00:22,380 was Dred Scott on the 22nd of September, or you can hit the 1827 02:00:22,380 --> 02:00:25,860 Fiat fun coupon donate button and support us with PayPal for 1828 02:00:25,860 --> 02:00:29,310 as long as they'll allow us. And of course, getting a modern 1829 02:00:29,310 --> 02:00:33,480 podcast app at Podcast. apps.com is really the way of the future 1830 02:00:33,480 --> 02:00:36,120 and we appreciate all the sets that you have been sending to 1831 02:00:36,120 --> 02:00:39,420 us. Thank you so much for supporting podcasting. 2.02 1832 02:00:39,420 --> 02:00:41,430 hours on the nose, Dave Jones, 1833 02:00:42,359 --> 02:00:44,879 Dave Jones: I think we need to elite I think we need to play 1834 02:00:44,879 --> 02:00:47,069 this up talk. Clip, 1835 02:00:47,100 --> 02:00:49,050 Adam Curry: we can't leave without some mob talk. 1836 02:00:49,080 --> 02:00:52,710 Dave Jones: It's a new version of a talk. Like it's not just 1837 02:00:52,710 --> 02:00:56,550 your straight normal talk, oh, this is sort of it starts 1838 02:00:56,550 --> 02:01:01,380 normal. It's a bad this is a clip about how podcast 1839 02:01:01,380 --> 02:01:05,430 advertising is all BS, it doesn't work okay. But then if 1840 02:01:05,430 --> 02:01:08,910 you notice towards the end, it begins to become like a sine 1841 02:01:08,910 --> 02:01:14,340 wave up talk where sine N and N and N and O okay. 1842 02:01:15,180 --> 02:01:19,560 Unknown: And I run the E commerce business but also all 1843 02:01:19,560 --> 02:01:21,870 of our growth marketing and had been there three and a half 1844 02:01:21,870 --> 02:01:26,430 years so pretty long time and I'm super excited to be getting 1845 02:01:26,430 --> 02:01:30,090 kind of back into the audio space after a while. I think for 1846 02:01:30,090 --> 02:01:33,540 the last call it eight years or so I've been at companies where 1847 02:01:33,540 --> 02:01:36,600 we've kind of been limited with budget and availability to grow 1848 02:01:36,600 --> 02:01:40,890 in channels. And I think we're at a time right now where even 1849 02:01:40,890 --> 02:01:43,020 if we don't have incremental budget I think all of us 1850 02:01:43,020 --> 02:01:46,140 probably feel pretty comfortable pulling from Facebook and and 1851 02:01:46,140 --> 02:01:49,500 reinvesting in other places. And so I'm super excited to be 1852 02:01:49,500 --> 02:01:54,120 working with this man oh 1853 02:01:54,120 --> 02:01:57,210 Adam Curry: man, that is a sine wave. It's like a very low hertz 1854 02:01:57,210 --> 02:01:57,480 though. 1855 02:02:00,720 --> 02:02:02,220 Dave Jones: What it for it is happening everywhere. 1856 02:02:02,250 --> 02:02:05,280 Adam Curry: What company was this young woman speaking of? 1857 02:02:05,790 --> 02:02:09,450 Dave Jones: I don't remember. Don't remember she basically 1858 02:02:09,450 --> 02:02:12,390 said nothing works with it and nothing works. But Facebook has 1859 02:02:12,390 --> 02:02:15,300 Adam Curry: rollercoaster That's right. Eric P pace. Brother. 1860 02:02:15,300 --> 02:02:18,270 Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy day. I 1861 02:02:18,270 --> 02:02:23,250 know it's a really tough time workwise it's busy and and for 1862 02:02:23,250 --> 02:02:26,940 giving up your lunch. I still feel bad that all you had chips 1863 02:02:26,970 --> 02:02:30,570 and onion dip. There you go and your hands are all greasy. And 1864 02:02:30,570 --> 02:02:33,360 now it's on your keyboard and as discussed I did have 1865 02:02:33,360 --> 02:02:37,440 Dave Jones: a beef shake though. wrangled one of those beef 1866 02:02:37,440 --> 02:02:38,220 shakes and Tredwell. 1867 02:02:38,819 --> 02:02:41,339 Adam Curry: Nothing like beef shake. Thank you very much chat 1868 02:02:41,339 --> 02:02:44,279 room. Thank you boardroom for being here for podcasting. 2.0 1869 02:02:44,279 --> 02:02:48,509 our anniversary 150 episodes. Looking forward to the next one. 1870 02:02:48,509 --> 02:02:51,569 We come back next week. We'll do another board meeting right here 1871 02:02:51,569 --> 02:02:54,029 podcasting 2.0 1872 02:03:09,569 --> 02:03:14,129 Unknown: You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast 1873 02:03:14,129 --> 02:03:16,859 index.org for more information. 1874 02:03:18,989 --> 02:03:20,879 Adam Curry: We need to listen and love each other more.