1
00:00:01,020 --> 00:00:06,240
Adam Curry: Casting 2.0 for
December 15 2023, episode 159

2
00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:14,430
Well, hohoho Hello, everybody.
Welcome to podcasting. 2.0 We

3
00:00:14,430 --> 00:00:17,760
are the only boardroom in the
business that has a naughty and

4
00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:21,240
nice list. That's right. Here's
what we discussed the actual

5
00:00:21,240 --> 00:00:25,050
future of podcasting did now
what's happening here, we're all

6
00:00:25,050 --> 00:00:29,040
about it. Podcasting 2.0 podcast
index.org And of course,

7
00:00:29,190 --> 00:00:32,790
everything we discussed in the
open on podcast index dot

8
00:00:32,790 --> 00:00:35,310
social. I'm Adam curry here in
the heart of the Texas Hill

9
00:00:35,310 --> 00:00:38,760
Country. And in Alabama, the man
who loves streaming video to an

10
00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:41,430
audience of millions say hello
to my friend on the other end

11
00:00:41,430 --> 00:00:45,450
live demo, Mr. Jones.

12
00:00:46,710 --> 00:00:50,340
Dave Jones: Okay, right off the
bat. I have have a have a bone

13
00:00:50,340 --> 00:00:51,750
to pick with you wants,

14
00:00:51,780 --> 00:00:53,520
Adam Curry: what do I do? What
do I want?

15
00:00:53,550 --> 00:01:00,270
Dave Jones: What do I do now to
streaming video? Yes. You hit me

16
00:01:00,270 --> 00:01:02,370
with a disproportionate use of
gifts.

17
00:01:03,659 --> 00:01:05,879
Adam Curry: Because I was hoping
it would arrive before the

18
00:01:05,879 --> 00:01:06,389
boardroom.

19
00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,130
Dave Jones: I gave you some DVD.
Well, no, no,

20
00:01:11,130 --> 00:01:15,720
Adam Curry: hold on a second. I
had forgotten that we that you'd

21
00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,720
like the only guy in my life
that I exchanged gifts with

22
00:01:19,140 --> 00:01:22,380
then. And I think what I gave
you last year last year, I gave

23
00:01:22,380 --> 00:01:26,310
you a Oculus card? Yeah, the
cold cart. Yeah, the cold cart.

24
00:01:26,820 --> 00:01:29,940
And and so Dave's like oh yeah,
I sent you a Christmas present.

25
00:01:29,940 --> 00:01:33,570
And it's like first of December.
I'm like, What I haven't even

26
00:01:33,570 --> 00:01:36,090
gotten to my list or anything
yet. And I don't have all the

27
00:01:36,090 --> 00:01:40,080
gifts my wife I'm like this. I'm
on it your way your way on it.

28
00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:44,460
And so and it's not like you
didn't just give me DVDs. These

29
00:01:44,460 --> 00:01:49,860
were very meaningful DVDs. And a
very nice card or slash Amazon

30
00:01:49,860 --> 00:01:54,720
note. To go with it. And and I
was really touched by it. And so

31
00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:58,860
I'm like, Oh man, what am I
gonna give Dave? How did I do?

32
00:01:58,890 --> 00:01:59,670
How did I do?

33
00:02:01,770 --> 00:02:05,160
Dave Jones: You blue. This is
disproportionate completely

34
00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:06,030
disproportionate? It's

35
00:02:06,030 --> 00:02:08,670
Adam Curry: not it's not because
I want I want to give you

36
00:02:08,670 --> 00:02:12,150
something that you absolutely
did not need. But yet, if you

37
00:02:12,150 --> 00:02:12,870
need it.

38
00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:18,120
Dave Jones: You get you got me
the Elgato stream deck.

39
00:02:19,139 --> 00:02:21,599
Adam Curry: Mark Two I hope I
hope it's the I

40
00:02:21,599 --> 00:02:23,519
Dave Jones: don't know I don't
see a mark on it. But I'm

41
00:02:23,519 --> 00:02:26,999
looking I'm gonna say as Mark to
I don't even know what to do

42
00:02:26,999 --> 00:02:30,059
with it. But even all the cool
note was like this is what all

43
00:02:30,059 --> 00:02:31,019
the cool kids use.

44
00:02:32,250 --> 00:02:35,640
Adam Curry: All the cool kids I
know use those legato stream

45
00:02:35,640 --> 00:02:39,840
tech for the streaming because
you can use start your stream it

46
00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:43,680
can rearrange your cameras, you
know, you can flip your camera

47
00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:45,360
on and all that stuff.

48
00:02:45,930 --> 00:02:49,710
Dave Jones: Yeah, like it's
good. Thank you, brother. Oh,

49
00:02:49,709 --> 00:02:52,049
Adam Curry: of course of Thank
you. Merry Christmas gift. Merry

50
00:02:52,049 --> 00:02:54,269
Christmas. And I expect you to
set it up,

51
00:02:55,050 --> 00:02:57,840
Dave Jones: though. I will I
will. I've will absolutely do

52
00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,900
that it get a I got it last
night. So here's what happened.

53
00:03:00,900 --> 00:03:05,130
I got it. I went out on the
front porch. And it was like a

54
00:03:05,130 --> 00:03:09,180
box. I started opening it up and
I'm like, wait a second. If this

55
00:03:09,180 --> 00:03:14,100
is something that my wife got,
for me, I can't do this. And so

56
00:03:14,100 --> 00:03:19,530
I like you know, I'm like put it
down. Cut the cut the lid. And

57
00:03:19,530 --> 00:03:22,950
then I'm like peeking in there
to see what color the box isn't

58
00:03:22,950 --> 00:03:27,420
trying to be like. And I'm like,
Wait, this is a weird bottle.

59
00:03:27,450 --> 00:03:29,730
This is surely enough. I asked
her I'm like did you get

60
00:03:29,730 --> 00:03:36,810
something for me? She's like, No
I'm like, What is this and if

61
00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:40,230
you had a nice notice such as
just such a nice such a nice

62
00:03:40,230 --> 00:03:41,040
gift. Thank you brother.

63
00:03:41,279 --> 00:03:44,909
Adam Curry: Know you're more
than welcome. And I'm curious. I

64
00:03:44,909 --> 00:03:48,419
think it should work with all
kinds of different OSs but I'm

65
00:03:48,419 --> 00:03:53,219
sure Windows is whatever you're
running your your OBS on Linux

66
00:03:53,219 --> 00:03:56,489
baby Ubuntu though really? I
don't know if if it has a boon

67
00:03:56,489 --> 00:03:58,499
to stuff I don't know. Well,
this

68
00:03:58,530 --> 00:04:00,300
Dave Jones: legitimately we were
talking about this before the

69
00:04:00,300 --> 00:04:03,060
show I've got building Windows
box. Yeah.

70
00:04:03,150 --> 00:04:04,530
Adam Curry: Now just for the
stream deck.

71
00:04:06,389 --> 00:04:08,399
Dave Jones: And for and for the
road because you know, it's

72
00:04:08,429 --> 00:04:12,899
crappy with Ubuntu. So yeah,
this time next week, I will have

73
00:04:13,289 --> 00:04:15,599
our have a fat rig. Fat

74
00:04:15,599 --> 00:04:18,359
Adam Curry: rig. It's Yes.
Supposedly, you can use it's

75
00:04:18,359 --> 00:04:21,239
like, you can use it for all
kinds of stuff from macro. We

76
00:04:21,239 --> 00:04:23,789
build macros. It has like a
whole app store.

77
00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:27,840
Dave Jones: feature and it's got
so many days got a lot of

78
00:04:27,840 --> 00:04:32,010
buttons. Lots of buzzer grim
button on there. I don't know

79
00:04:32,010 --> 00:04:32,490
what you would do.

80
00:04:34,530 --> 00:04:36,600
Adam Curry: I think you can
change those buttons. That's the

81
00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:42,720
whole point is you can go to the
the stream deck App Store. That

82
00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:44,520
fat rig Yeah, exactly what Oh,

83
00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:45,600
Dave Jones: they got an app. So
they

84
00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,460
Adam Curry: have an app store.
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I

85
00:04:47,460 --> 00:04:50,190
Dave Jones: should put a podcast
index app on the stream deck App

86
00:04:50,190 --> 00:04:50,790
Store. Yeah.

87
00:04:50,970 --> 00:04:53,910
Adam Curry: Why not? Might as
well as you can. I don't know

88
00:04:53,910 --> 00:04:57,030
what it would do. But it would
look cool. It's good to be in an

89
00:04:57,030 --> 00:04:58,830
app store. The only App Store
will be in

90
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,750
Dave Jones: I know what it would
do it would it would overlay to

91
00:05:03,750 --> 00:05:06,750
hell a pad various brands on the
screen.

92
00:05:06,780 --> 00:05:10,350
Adam Curry: Yeah, there you go.
Now you're talking. See this is

93
00:05:10,350 --> 00:05:14,310
a business expense now. No, no,
that's not a business expense

94
00:05:14,340 --> 00:05:19,980
that talked about it. That is a
Yeah, okay. No, I think we

95
00:05:19,980 --> 00:05:22,500
already just established it was
a Christmas gift.

96
00:05:22,950 --> 00:05:23,580
Dave Jones: Thank you brother.

97
00:05:23,610 --> 00:05:26,100
Adam Curry: Yeah, no of course
man. Thank you. I love my DVDs.

98
00:05:26,100 --> 00:05:31,680
i i And thank you for the for
pre ripping the MP force to me I

99
00:05:32,430 --> 00:05:37,680
on my I set up on my What is it
called? On my start nine. They

100
00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:42,930
have like an open source. Video
management it's like Plex only

101
00:05:42,930 --> 00:05:46,230
it's open source. I think it's
called jiggy with it or

102
00:05:46,230 --> 00:05:54,270
something jellyfish. Jellyfish.
So I've jellyfish. Yeah, so I

103
00:05:54,270 --> 00:05:59,040
put I put it on there and and
started streaming it I the way

104
00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,350
the start the start nine still
doesn't have what they call

105
00:06:01,350 --> 00:06:05,640
clean net. It's all tore still.
So I can it won't connect to the

106
00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,880
Roku yet, but that's coming soon
with their version four. I love

107
00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:12,180
that, that start nine best thing
ever. I gotta say this other

108
00:06:12,180 --> 00:06:17,400
story. Okay, so I'm on the X,
you know, formerly known as

109
00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:22,830
Twitter, you have to say that.
And, and I see this, this box

110
00:06:22,830 --> 00:06:26,610
called it's called Future bit.
Have you heard of this thing?

111
00:06:28,650 --> 00:06:31,020
Dave Jones: I'm gonna say no.
Okay, so

112
00:06:31,020 --> 00:06:37,200
Adam Curry: it's like a desktop
cube. And, and supposedly it

113
00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:43,350
says 10 Tera. Hash. To silent.
This is the big thing silent,

114
00:06:43,620 --> 00:06:50,640
full Bitcoin node and miner made
in the USA. So

115
00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:54,780
Dave Jones: let me start with
what? I'm not familiar with

116
00:06:54,780 --> 00:06:57,330
current, like hash rates and
that kind of thing. What where

117
00:06:57,330 --> 00:06:59,490
does that rank? And how big is
that?

118
00:06:59,700 --> 00:07:02,880
Adam Curry: To give me an idea I
have. I have two s nines that

119
00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:06,870
have been running for a year now
in the house. And I think

120
00:07:06,870 --> 00:07:14,400
together they do about 17 Tera
hash. But that's that. And so

121
00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:20,820
that's 600 watts. And this thing
is supposed to do 10 At 300

122
00:07:20,820 --> 00:07:24,240
watts. And so now you're
literally into the calculation

123
00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:28,800
of money. So these, so these two
miners, with today's prices,

124
00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:32,400
they're doing anywhere between
three and $5 a day for me. And

125
00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,790
I'm on a pool, right? I'm on the
brains pool or whatever. And so

126
00:07:35,790 --> 00:07:38,040
this thing, you can make your
own pool, you could run it

127
00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,310
standalone and just hope for a
lucky shot foot should be funny.

128
00:07:42,690 --> 00:07:44,040
Dave Jones: does it connect to
ocean?

129
00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:47,010
Adam Curry: I know I really
don't know. But here's what

130
00:07:47,010 --> 00:07:51,330
happens. So I just liked that.
It's like the Apollo two. It's

131
00:07:51,330 --> 00:07:55,590
their new rig. So I just hit the
like button. I get a DM Hi, I'm

132
00:07:55,590 --> 00:07:59,130
the CEO. I want to send you one.
I'm like sweet

133
00:08:01,530 --> 00:08:06,150
Dave Jones: Yeah. The answer is
yes. Yes.

134
00:08:06,180 --> 00:08:08,640
Adam Curry: I will review it for
you. Don't worry. I haven't. It

135
00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:12,330
hasn't hasn't showed up yet. But
so yeah, I was feeling pretty

136
00:08:12,330 --> 00:08:13,200
good about that.

137
00:08:13,230 --> 00:08:15,870
Dave Jones: 10 Tera hash at 300
watts. I mean, you're talking

138
00:08:15,870 --> 00:08:21,240
about half the power with you
know, with 75% of the ASHRAE

139
00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,360
that's pretty good. Yeah. Yeah.

140
00:08:25,110 --> 00:08:27,060
Adam Curry: That's made in
America. They have their own

141
00:08:27,090 --> 00:08:31,080
ASIC. I don't know just the
whole like the whole idea. Is

142
00:08:31,110 --> 00:08:31,710
like a

143
00:08:33,210 --> 00:08:35,460
Dave Jones: Is it like a thing
that has like a management

144
00:08:35,460 --> 00:08:38,520
interface where you can like
just plug it in and then get

145
00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:38,970
into

146
00:08:40,170 --> 00:08:46,230
Adam Curry: you can have that I
lose you there. Boy, you went?

147
00:08:46,500 --> 00:08:59,100
You went Zippy zappy Hello.
Hello, Dave. J is not here Do

148
00:08:59,100 --> 00:09:03,240
you guys still hear me right?
Still on the stream

149
00:09:08,580 --> 00:09:12,030
Okay, so it must have been Dave
let me disconnect. See if you

150
00:09:12,030 --> 00:09:19,110
reconnect I can reconnect him
restore There you go. You there

151
00:09:19,260 --> 00:09:22,350
Oh, yeah, I'm here wow, you were
gone. You all you want Merton

152
00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:28,620
and then you've got Yeah, you've
just gone okay. You were asking

153
00:09:28,620 --> 00:09:31,170
about if he's had a management
interface and I was going to say

154
00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:37,680
it's obviously it's a full on
Linux desktop computer with USB

155
00:09:37,680 --> 00:09:41,850
ports everything is supposedly
quiet which I mean if you those

156
00:09:41,850 --> 00:09:44,400
s nines are in the garage I
can't have them in the house.

157
00:09:45,180 --> 00:09:46,290
Dave Jones: Oh yeah, those
things are loud.

158
00:09:47,610 --> 00:09:50,520
Adam Curry: So empty Yeah, just
so it does have a managed but

159
00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,160
you can it's plug and play you
plug it in turn on it'll start

160
00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:56,040
mining but there's an interface
you can you can connect to so it

161
00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:59,520
does have a I guess has a web
server in there. But it's it's a

162
00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:00,840
full on desktop machine.

163
00:10:01,590 --> 00:10:05,880
Dave Jones: The last the last
miners I had were had to think

164
00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:10,530
they may have been like s sevens
or something. That was right. I

165
00:10:10,530 --> 00:10:13,410
don't even know if that's right.
Because it was, it was shortly

166
00:10:13,410 --> 00:10:17,880
maybe a year or two after the
transition really happened. GPUs

167
00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:23,850
to ASICs. Right. So I use the
funds that are mined from, from

168
00:10:23,850 --> 00:10:28,950
GPUs to buy. Yeah, it was
pretty, it was pretty profitable

169
00:10:29,130 --> 00:10:32,430
at first and then and then it
just went down. You know, like

170
00:10:32,430 --> 00:10:35,880
it was slowly got outmoded. I
ended up just, I ended up

171
00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:37,980
trashing them because they were
so far out of date.

172
00:10:39,180 --> 00:10:41,550
Adam Curry: I mean, the S nines
are out of date, too. I mean,

173
00:10:41,550 --> 00:10:44,460
what is it s 19 is what people
are using these were given to me

174
00:10:44,460 --> 00:10:47,970
as well. Now they're
refurbished, and I just put them

175
00:10:47,970 --> 00:10:50,820
in the in the garage, keeps the
garage nice and nice and toasty

176
00:10:50,820 --> 00:10:52,440
during the winter. I

177
00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:56,250
Dave Jones: had heard the day
that AntMiner was like, going

178
00:10:56,250 --> 00:11:00,000
Adam Curry: out of business. And
yeah, I don't know. Is that

179
00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,760
still the case? I have no idea.
I mean,

180
00:11:03,210 --> 00:11:05,430
Dave Jones: we're like the only
game in town for a while it's up

181
00:11:05,430 --> 00:11:06,000
and down.

182
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:07,530
Adam Curry: You know, it'd be
you know, it all depends on the

183
00:11:07,530 --> 00:11:11,190
price and the hat and the
difficulty and then they

184
00:11:11,460 --> 00:11:14,460
overestimate or under estimate.
I don't know. I really don't

185
00:11:14,460 --> 00:11:17,850
know. Yeah, I really don't
understand it. But I just think

186
00:11:17,850 --> 00:11:21,000
it's cool that every day I'm
like, oh, there's there's $3 Oh,

187
00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:24,870
that's cool. I just I printed
money in my garage. And Texas

188
00:11:24,870 --> 00:11:30,000
prices. It's profitable. by
little by little bit.

189
00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,770
Dave Jones: Yeah, because y'all
got y'all have y'all have we got

190
00:11:35,490 --> 00:11:38,040
a late Yeah, decent power when
it's not an ice storm.

191
00:11:39,300 --> 00:11:41,760
Adam Curry: That has nothing to
do with our grid. That's Austin.

192
00:11:43,380 --> 00:11:47,460
Dave Jones: Prices, decent
prices. Nice storm you're gonna

193
00:11:47,460 --> 00:11:48,510
pay $20,000

194
00:11:48,990 --> 00:11:52,770
Adam Curry: for a minute. For
your minor. For minor. Yes.

195
00:11:53,070 --> 00:11:55,770
Well, speaking of such I'm going
to declare it right now while

196
00:11:55,770 --> 00:11:59,220
you're ready, is I'm going to
say and I have some standing in

197
00:11:59,220 --> 00:12:01,830
the podcast area. I am
officially declaring this

198
00:12:02,430 --> 00:12:04,050
podcast winter.

199
00:12:06,390 --> 00:12:08,550
Dave Jones: Oh, sweet, okay.
It's an efficiently

200
00:12:08,550 --> 00:12:10,620
Adam Curry: podcast winter. I've
been through one of these

201
00:12:10,620 --> 00:12:15,690
before. The podcast windows a
very bad podcast winter of 2008.

202
00:12:16,530 --> 00:12:20,640
When we were riding high,
everyone was loving it. VC money

203
00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:25,110
was flowing. Everybody was happy
and jacked. We had advertisers

204
00:12:25,110 --> 00:12:28,920
it was woohoo. So great. And
then oh, no, we got Twitter,

205
00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,640
Facebook, YouTube. Hello,
everybody better do video. If

206
00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:35,400
you're not doing video, you're
gonna suck. You're going to be

207
00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:39,810
left behind. That was the first
podcast winter. Does

208
00:12:39,810 --> 00:12:42,570
Dave Jones: this. Is this
similar to a dark winter?

209
00:12:43,620 --> 00:12:46,950
Adam Curry: No, because that's
where everybody dies. Their head

210
00:12:46,950 --> 00:12:50,520
hurts. It is similar to an AI
winter which I'm predicting for

211
00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:54,600
next year. But this is the
podcast winter we are right in

212
00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:59,100
the middle of it. I've been
listening to so much obfuscated

213
00:12:59,100 --> 00:13:05,280
lies before futzing around with
language about what's really

214
00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:09,390
going on. I didn't clip
anything. But I mean, I was

215
00:13:09,420 --> 00:13:14,670
surprised I was really surprised
to hear on a show prep podcast

216
00:13:14,670 --> 00:13:19,320
weekly review. James was kind of
attributing twits going, you

217
00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:23,760
know, you know, firings and
canceling shows to Leo being

218
00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,940
old. And and the same voice is
being on the show. I'm like,

219
00:13:26,940 --> 00:13:29,850
what is that? That's bullcrap,
though,

220
00:13:30,930 --> 00:13:33,810
Dave Jones: said that Steve
Gibson, then the example he

221
00:13:33,810 --> 00:13:35,250
used. That's the one

222
00:13:35,250 --> 00:13:39,900
Adam Curry: I'm most comfortable
shows. Exactly. Exactly. Now,

223
00:13:39,930 --> 00:13:42,540
it's not because they didn't
innovate. It's not because Leo

224
00:13:42,540 --> 00:13:46,470
doesn't understand the podcast
business. Well, yeah, that is so

225
00:13:46,680 --> 00:13:48,930
because I don't think he's had
anything to do with the business

226
00:13:48,930 --> 00:13:53,070
side. I'm sure his his wife has
been doing that. But he's been

227
00:13:53,070 --> 00:13:57,720
doing video from day one. It's
not about that people want video

228
00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,470
he did all their stuff is shared
on YouTube. So it's not that No,

229
00:14:01,770 --> 00:14:04,590
I listened to the media
roundtable. And it was pretty

230
00:14:04,590 --> 00:14:09,210
clear. They're just like,
podcasting is out of favor. It's

231
00:14:09,210 --> 00:14:12,900
just out of favor media buyers,
or as they call chief audio

232
00:14:12,900 --> 00:14:18,030
officers. Media Buyers are just
not buying it because it's got a

233
00:14:18,030 --> 00:14:22,560
bad taste to it. And the thing
that shocked me was fraud.

234
00:14:23,670 --> 00:14:27,810
There's there's a there's a very
there's a lot of cognition now

235
00:14:27,810 --> 00:14:32,010
about fraud is a big word. They
call it fraud on that show, but

236
00:14:32,370 --> 00:14:35,790
okay, we got the downloads but
the download really go to where

237
00:14:35,790 --> 00:14:39,720
we think it went up. There's a
lot of well, how about capping

238
00:14:39,750 --> 00:14:43,080
of frequency capping and we get
into the same people getting the

239
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:47,760
same result, do this just they
just don't know. And then again,

240
00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:51,540
and they're getting better data
from all these other places, and

241
00:14:51,540 --> 00:14:54,360
it's no longer hip and hot and
happening. There's nothing but

242
00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:58,740
bad news, which I think also
attributes for the numbers being

243
00:14:58,740 --> 00:15:01,890
down. Yes, a part of that.
There's going to be the apple

244
00:15:01,890 --> 00:15:04,950
podcast. And I think no agenda
is if you look at the OP three

245
00:15:04,950 --> 00:15:08,760
stats for no agenda, I think
it's very apparent there, then

246
00:15:08,790 --> 00:15:12,510
no agenda is typically a podcast
that people will be able to

247
00:15:12,510 --> 00:15:17,220
download. And, and they'll
download previous episodes. And

248
00:15:17,460 --> 00:15:20,010
they may or may not get to them
all the time. I think we're a

249
00:15:20,010 --> 00:15:22,950
show that people do skip
sometimes. A lot of people

250
00:15:22,950 --> 00:15:27,180
don't, but we're just a long
show. So we went from, let's

251
00:15:27,180 --> 00:15:31,950
say, 900,000, op, three, unique
audience to a little under

252
00:15:31,950 --> 00:15:36,300
700,000 per month. Sounds about
right to me from from those

253
00:15:36,300 --> 00:15:40,620
numbers. And I would say that
was probably the over count. But

254
00:15:40,620 --> 00:15:45,780
the the overall decline in, in
podcasting, then people are

255
00:15:45,780 --> 00:15:50,070
giving up. They think that going
away, some people just like, you

256
00:15:50,070 --> 00:15:52,560
know, I think there's pod fading
happening everywhere. I think

257
00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,740
people are not doing as many
episodes. They're not as excited

258
00:15:55,740 --> 00:15:59,280
by it. There's no longer that,
hey, I can be Joe Rogan. Spotify

259
00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,730
is not going to give me $100
million anymore. So it's podcast

260
00:16:02,730 --> 00:16:05,190
winter. And this is where we
hunker down. This is where we

261
00:16:05,190 --> 00:16:08,940
continue to build. And until the
next moment, the next serial

262
00:16:08,940 --> 00:16:11,730
moment comes along, which
hopefully won't be eight years.

263
00:16:14,820 --> 00:16:17,670
Dave Jones: I did not listen to
the most recent media

264
00:16:17,670 --> 00:16:22,050
roundtable. I haven't heard of
yet. But so I didn't hear the

265
00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,680
thing you're talking about. But
I but I did. I had this

266
00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:30,750
interesting experience. So I'm
now I'm now this guy. Like,

267
00:16:31,260 --> 00:16:33,990
Adam Curry: you've been this guy
for a long time. Okay.

268
00:16:36,270 --> 00:16:40,680
Dave Jones: So here's the math.
My daughter, My daughter, she's

269
00:16:40,710 --> 00:16:46,200
my youngest daughter. She's 13.
And so, me and her and my wife

270
00:16:46,290 --> 00:16:51,600
have gotten into this pattern
each night we we have dinner and

271
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:55,950
we sit down we watch Gilmore
Girls. Oh, beautiful. Yeah, I've

272
00:16:55,950 --> 00:16:59,910
never seen the whole thing. I've
only seen pieces. Yeah, so we've

273
00:16:59,910 --> 00:17:01,770
become you know, get more girls
are

274
00:17:01,770 --> 00:17:03,930
Adam Curry: hollow baby. Yeah,
stars. Hello. Yeah.

275
00:17:04,710 --> 00:17:07,320
Dave Jones: It's um, you know, I
look around and you know, the

276
00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:12,270
guy that plays Luke. Scott
Patterson's the actor's name. So

277
00:17:12,270 --> 00:17:16,140
I'm like, Well, wonder what else
he's he's been in, you know, I'm

278
00:17:16,140 --> 00:17:18,390
interested in looking around
because I really haven't seen

279
00:17:18,390 --> 00:17:20,760
many of these people on other
shows. So I'm like, well,

280
00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:25,710
where's he been on IMDb and this
guy. And it's through searching

281
00:17:25,710 --> 00:17:31,140
essay. I found on Google said,
he's got a podcast about Gilmore

282
00:17:31,140 --> 00:17:35,010
Girls where he is watching
through the show himself

283
00:17:35,190 --> 00:17:39,060
himself, because he really is
very good. Yeah, it's weird,

284
00:17:39,060 --> 00:17:42,900
because he never really saw it,
I guess in a holistic way. He

285
00:17:42,900 --> 00:17:47,340
just saw the part he did. And
I'm like, Well, this sounds kind

286
00:17:47,340 --> 00:17:49,470
of interesting. I wonder if it's
in the index. So I'll go it's in

287
00:17:49,470 --> 00:17:53,910
the index. I've got a couple of
things about this. Not just on

288
00:17:53,910 --> 00:17:56,100
two different topics. I'm going
to actually bring this up again

289
00:17:56,100 --> 00:18:01,440
later. But he sort of So I find
this I've subscribed to it and

290
00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:07,560
cast thematic and so on now, you
know, number one, I'm now that

291
00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:12,450
guy that that goes and listens
to like fan podcasts of things.

292
00:18:12,450 --> 00:18:14,490
You know, like I'm we're gonna
listen through so and so

293
00:18:14,490 --> 00:18:19,500
together. But the other thing is
the it's an I Heart Radio,

294
00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:30,330
podcast. And it is the same. The
same ads. It's like three, it's

295
00:18:30,330 --> 00:18:34,380
an Ikea ad and two other ads
that I don't remember. It is the

296
00:18:34,380 --> 00:18:40,200
same ad five different times in
the podcast is a pre roll. And

297
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:45,990
then there's three mid rolls,
and the post roll the identical

298
00:18:45,990 --> 00:18:51,420
ads every single time without
fail. Yeah. And it's like, the

299
00:18:51,420 --> 00:18:55,890
podcast is like, let's just say
it's 45 minutes long. And

300
00:18:55,890 --> 00:19:02,850
there's 10 minutes 10 to 12
minutes of ads. And they're all

301
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:05,790
the exact same ad. It's

302
00:19:05,790 --> 00:19:07,860
Adam Curry: been there. I guess
they're inserted at

303
00:19:07,860 --> 00:19:09,060
inappropriate times.

304
00:19:09,360 --> 00:19:13,020
Dave Jones: Yes, of course. Of
course. It is brutal in it. So

305
00:19:13,020 --> 00:19:16,620
this is the first you know, I'm,
I'm used to it. We were we're

306
00:19:16,620 --> 00:19:22,740
podcast nerds. So we're used to
listening to podcasts, mostly by

307
00:19:22,740 --> 00:19:27,270
people that are really good at
producing podcasts they take

308
00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:29,580
when I when I say good at it. I
mean, like they take a lot of

309
00:19:29,580 --> 00:19:35,550
care in how the product is, is
Bill. Sure. This is really

310
00:19:35,550 --> 00:19:40,140
honestly my first experience
with a podcast that somebody

311
00:19:40,140 --> 00:19:44,340
just a Rando would listen to,
like, Oh, I like Gilmore Girls

312
00:19:44,340 --> 00:19:49,530
on subscribe to this podcast.
And that stuff. If this is

313
00:19:49,530 --> 00:19:53,310
indicative of the quality that
that stuff it represents. It's

314
00:19:53,310 --> 00:19:57,720
terrible. Like the show itself
is okay. I mean, like it's the

315
00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:01,140
content, but the production that
are you I mean, they're all on

316
00:20:01,140 --> 00:20:06,990
like, you know, air pods mics,
and they're in certain horrible

317
00:20:06,990 --> 00:20:10,080
dynamic ads in that are the same
all over the place. It's it's

318
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:15,510
truly garbage. And I could see
how download numbers. I could

319
00:20:15,510 --> 00:20:18,180
see how people would get
fatigued of stuff like that if,

320
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,260
if that's representative of like
the larger world of podcasting

321
00:20:22,260 --> 00:20:25,020
that's out there that makes up
all the stuff that I don't

322
00:20:25,020 --> 00:20:26,010
normally listen to.

323
00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:28,860
Adam Curry: Yeah, there was a
lot of that. I mean, the the

324
00:20:28,860 --> 00:20:32,910
podcast industrial complex grew
up around the success of cereal

325
00:20:32,940 --> 00:20:37,500
and the investment from Spotify.
And that's the story. Everyone

326
00:20:37,500 --> 00:20:41,550
knows that. And what we've been
talking about for over a year,

327
00:20:41,550 --> 00:20:45,480
maybe a year and a half is now
kind of regular parlance except

328
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,330
they say Well, that was dumb
money. Okay, say whatever you

329
00:20:48,330 --> 00:20:51,180
want. There was there's been
dumb money there was dumb money

330
00:20:51,180 --> 00:20:55,140
for a decade. That's most
technology companies are built

331
00:20:55,140 --> 00:20:57,480
on the so called it was cheap
money. That's what it was which

332
00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:58,140
cheap money.

333
00:20:58,530 --> 00:20:59,100
Dave Jones: cheap money.

334
00:21:00,450 --> 00:21:03,720
Adam Curry: And that's the I'm
sorry, go ahead. No, no good.

335
00:21:03,750 --> 00:21:06,600
Well, the podcast industrial
complex came in treated like

336
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:13,860
radio a weird hybrid actually of
radio and other internet based

337
00:21:13,860 --> 00:21:19,230
advertising. I think the as Dr.
As we call them the biz direct

338
00:21:19,230 --> 00:21:22,740
response. I think that's still
extremely appropriate. You're

339
00:21:22,740 --> 00:21:26,520
not going to get your BMW for
direct response. Go buy a BMW

340
00:21:26,550 --> 00:21:30,900
with my code. No, that's not
going to happen. But brand

341
00:21:30,900 --> 00:21:34,350
advertising came in and you
know, and and a lot of people

342
00:21:34,350 --> 00:21:36,840
will disagree with me on this
but it's just not appropriate

343
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:41,310
medium. Its advertising is very
inappropriate, perpendicular.

344
00:21:41,550 --> 00:21:44,790
The opposite of what podcasting
has always been about. I'm not

345
00:21:44,790 --> 00:21:48,360
against advertising. I'm really
not. But that experience that

346
00:21:48,360 --> 00:21:51,720
you just discussed shows a tip
it's like, it's like disco.

347
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:56,850
Disco was very formulaic. You
know, you put your Boom, clap,

348
00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:00,480
Boom, clap to to do to do and
then you know, begin yours, your

349
00:22:00,810 --> 00:22:04,410
your lycra and your dance around
them. To a degree like crew

350
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,680
techno was kind of techno was
kind of a revival of that.

351
00:22:09,390 --> 00:22:12,870
Although, I don't want to get
people to techno people all mad

352
00:22:12,870 --> 00:22:19,500
at me. But it's formulaic. It
became formulaic and and there's

353
00:22:19,500 --> 00:22:22,470
this idea of, well, I have
numbers, so I should make be

354
00:22:22,470 --> 00:22:26,340
making money. And we did that
with blogging. Okay. No, no,

355
00:22:26,340 --> 00:22:28,980
that's just not how it works. So

356
00:22:29,130 --> 00:22:31,860
Dave Jones: look at our look at
our numbers we went from we went

357
00:22:31,860 --> 00:22:34,650
down, right? We went Oh, yeah, I
mean, a lot. A lot. I mean, we

358
00:22:34,650 --> 00:22:39,300
went down from 13,000. Yeah,
just like, say like, 5000s.

359
00:22:39,300 --> 00:22:43,440
Yeah. A little under a little
under six. If you're so that,

360
00:22:43,650 --> 00:22:47,640
those exact numbers on a note.
It's always been you the numbers

361
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,910
you've always heard were, once
you get 10,000. Listeners, then

362
00:22:50,910 --> 00:22:55,680
you monetize with ads. Yeah, but
advertising. Well, if we if we

363
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:59,130
were just if we were a podcast
that monetized we're not we

364
00:22:59,130 --> 00:23:02,460
know, we just immediately in two
months now we're out of the

365
00:23:02,460 --> 00:23:05,490
game. Yeah, we were monetizing.
Now. We're not. But

366
00:23:05,490 --> 00:23:07,800
Adam Curry: it's also a who want
I just don't want it. It's

367
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,220
that's not what's so beautiful
about podcasting. And, you know,

368
00:23:11,220 --> 00:23:15,960
the, the value for value
concepts where people support

369
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:20,490
you, and it works. It's been
working. Been working for me.

370
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,790
I'm hearing more and more of it.
It's starting to Oh, my God, the

371
00:23:24,150 --> 00:23:27,390
beautiful interview with Ainsley
Costello and just loud who are

372
00:23:27,390 --> 00:23:31,200
doing the big. The big concert
concerts, I should say, December

373
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:39,600
28, December 21. Two coming to a
2.0 app near you. This guy, just

374
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:46,320
loud. He's this is like some
he's like a music. What's the

375
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:52,680
word genius? He he's done. Not
No, no, he's a 9000 songs. All

376
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:56,280
he does is write and record
music, and was bought music

377
00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:00,150
savant. Yes. And he had, he has
a whole backstory, he had 10

378
00:24:00,150 --> 00:24:04,170
million streams on Spotify
didn't receive a dime. He says,

379
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,770
he says, I have received more
money from value for value

380
00:24:07,950 --> 00:24:11,220
played on podcast than anything
I've ever done on Spotify. And

381
00:24:11,220 --> 00:24:16,050
here's what we're so beautiful.
He says whenever I guess he has,

382
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,240
you know, his management team or
whatever. They'll send him a

383
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,930
screenshot when stuff is coming
in. And he'll go look, and he

384
00:24:21,930 --> 00:24:25,200
says, I see that I see that
Satoshis coming in. He says I

385
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:29,220
immediately get inspired and go
write another song. Oh, that's

386
00:24:29,220 --> 00:24:32,040
cool. And that's the whole point
is like, you're getting

387
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,670
inspiration. You're getting the
feedback loop that shows you

388
00:24:35,670 --> 00:24:38,970
that people are out there and
are listening and care enough to

389
00:24:38,970 --> 00:24:43,230
send you money no matter what
the amount is. It's irrelevant.

390
00:24:44,700 --> 00:24:47,970
Dave Jones: They do. Okay, so
last week, we had this the

391
00:24:47,970 --> 00:24:54,930
Spotify take apart. Yeah. And I
had mentioned that something

392
00:24:55,170 --> 00:24:59,580
that I was thinking about where
we'll maybe the pod maybe the

393
00:24:59,580 --> 00:25:05,280
Spotify Exclusive. And that
podcasting in general, within

394
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:11,640
Spotify was just a way to get
their ma us up into the range

395
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,970
that would meet the numbers
required for them to get the get

396
00:25:14,970 --> 00:25:16,710
the lowest rates on music
royalty. That's

397
00:25:16,710 --> 00:25:19,260
Adam Curry: definitely part of
it. It's a very good, that was a

398
00:25:19,260 --> 00:25:21,960
good deconstruction you had
there. So

399
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,240
Dave Jones: I think we have
confirmation of that, by

400
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:30,870
accident, in a clip from Franco
asked me to send him this clip.

401
00:25:31,530 --> 00:25:35,430
And I was like, Well, I don't
have I didn't at the time have

402
00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:39,390
the clip down version of it
handy. I'm like, but I do have

403
00:25:39,390 --> 00:25:41,610
the whole interview or not
interview but the whole

404
00:25:41,610 --> 00:25:46,890
presentation that the lady from
Spotify gave the investor day.

405
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,460
Yeah, yeah. And so I was like,
here, I'll just I'll just send

406
00:25:50,460 --> 00:25:53,700
you this. And I'll let me let me
find the place to start. It's

407
00:25:53,700 --> 00:25:56,730
like, I think it's two minutes I
was listening through to it. And

408
00:25:57,420 --> 00:26:00,480
it was like, well, there it is.
There's confirmation to that. So

409
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,060
I sent you this clip before the
show. It's like at the one

410
00:26:03,060 --> 00:26:07,890
minute mark. Just start there
and listen to what she says

411
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:12,450
Unknown: on the same platform.
Now, think about how far we've

412
00:26:12,450 --> 00:26:16,710
come. In just under four years,
we've gone from having virtually

413
00:26:16,740 --> 00:26:21,060
no podcast on platform to being
a global leader in the market.

414
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:26,010
So put this in perspective. When
Ankur joined Spotify in 2019,

415
00:26:26,130 --> 00:26:30,720
there were fewer than 500,000
podcasts on the platform. Today,

416
00:26:30,810 --> 00:26:35,340
there are over 4 million and
anchor powers more than 75% of

417
00:26:35,340 --> 00:26:39,510
them. And those millions of
shows being published to Spotify

418
00:26:39,510 --> 00:26:44,070
from anchor are often being made
by first time creators. As those

419
00:26:44,070 --> 00:26:46,950
creators make their content.
They share it with their friends

420
00:26:46,950 --> 00:26:51,900
and family off platform and the
results. On average, every new

421
00:26:51,900 --> 00:26:57,690
anchor show brings 2.5
additional meu anchor and our

422
00:26:57,690 --> 00:27:01,020
other hosting platform
megaphone, Spotify powered shows

423
00:27:01,050 --> 00:27:05,970
account for 45% of all podcast
consumption on platform on

424
00:27:05,970 --> 00:27:06,570
Adam Curry: platform.

425
00:27:06,930 --> 00:27:09,750
Dave Jones: Yeah, it's the
anchor now we know what anchor

426
00:27:09,780 --> 00:27:13,080
always existed and still exists
and Spotify for podcast still

427
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,920
exists. It's an MA usually about
and they don't give a crap about

428
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,280
those shows. No, it was never
about podcasting is about mA

429
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:20,790
use.

430
00:27:22,050 --> 00:27:23,820
Adam Curry: But they never
really got their advertising

431
00:27:23,820 --> 00:27:26,610
game right. As far as I can
tell. Now

432
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,850
Dave Jones: it will they tried
to but it was too late. They

433
00:27:29,850 --> 00:27:33,630
tried to with megaphone by going
by going into RSS heavy, but it

434
00:27:33,630 --> 00:27:37,560
was them it's too late. And they
they they timed it exactly at

435
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,230
the beginning of parcast.
Winter, which is where you don't

436
00:27:40,230 --> 00:27:43,770
Adam Curry: want to be I'll
explain meu people don't monthly

437
00:27:43,860 --> 00:27:46,500
Dave Jones: monthly active
users. Yeah. So that's that's

438
00:27:46,590 --> 00:27:50,220
the monthly active users is, you
know, that is like the premier

439
00:27:50,700 --> 00:27:55,050
number that gets report reported
for tech companies for tech

440
00:27:55,050 --> 00:27:57,510
companies. Yeah, it's just it's
a great it's their primary

441
00:27:57,510 --> 00:28:01,320
growth metric. Yeah. And then
and but specifically for

442
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:06,240
Spotify. We, the research that
we talked about last week was

443
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:10,320
that they when they in 2018,
when they really renegotiated

444
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,410
their contract their royalty
contracts with the music labels.

445
00:28:13,770 --> 00:28:19,950
The music labels, negotiated a
lower royalty rate in exchange

446
00:28:19,950 --> 00:28:24,210
for guaranteed user monthly user
growth and they may they may you

447
00:28:24,210 --> 00:28:26,370
never had to go up at a
predictable rate.

448
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,580
Adam Curry: Oh, man that makes
Yeah, if

449
00:28:29,580 --> 00:28:32,910
Dave Jones: they didn't hit the
M au number growth numbers. They

450
00:28:32,910 --> 00:28:37,080
had their royalty rate went back
up to the previous to what it

451
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:41,580
was previously. Yeah, it's so I
mean, anchor if every anchor

452
00:28:41,580 --> 00:28:44,280
show brings in an extra two and
a half ma you

453
00:28:44,310 --> 00:28:47,730
Adam Curry: Yeah, which is which
is yourself and your buddy and

454
00:28:48,090 --> 00:28:50,070
your mom and your mom. Yeah,

455
00:28:50,100 --> 00:28:55,050
Dave Jones: yeah, half of your
mom. Yeah. Yeah, so that mean it

456
00:28:55,050 --> 00:28:57,750
was it's always it's just it's
just a NEMA you play it was

457
00:28:57,750 --> 00:29:00,840
always bogus and that's why you
have you know, people that have

458
00:29:01,350 --> 00:29:07,650
a supposedly anchor podcast in
there clearly. It sounds farmy

459
00:29:08,370 --> 00:29:13,860
Do you know what I mean? Like
there'd be like 1000 shows new

460
00:29:13,860 --> 00:29:19,380
shows a day or more and half of
them are like it in 10 seconds

461
00:29:19,380 --> 00:29:21,480
of somebody you know doing a
fart noise

462
00:29:22,830 --> 00:29:25,440
Adam Curry: you would know you
you went through most of those

463
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:26,580
swear to

464
00:29:26,580 --> 00:29:29,670
Dave Jones: God I mean like it's
horrible. But then it but then a

465
00:29:29,670 --> 00:29:35,160
lot of them is just like people
that are clearly from like it's

466
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,150
like it's kind of like click
farms you know there that are in

467
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,170
the right deterring country like
the Philippines and Indonesia

468
00:29:43,170 --> 00:29:45,660
and these places where they run
these these sweatshop click

469
00:29:45,660 --> 00:29:50,850
farms. A lot of the a lot of the
anchor stuff sounded farmy to

470
00:29:50,850 --> 00:29:55,830
me. I'm not saying that they did
it, but it's like it just had

471
00:29:55,830 --> 00:29:58,710
that weird vibe to it where
you're like, This doesn't even

472
00:29:58,770 --> 00:30:00,630
make sense. Why did anybody even
bother

473
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,810
Adam Curry: if there's any if
the way they the way Spotify

474
00:30:03,810 --> 00:30:09,570
works with with music with
purchasing fake streams getting

475
00:30:09,570 --> 00:30:12,900
on a certain playlist paying for
that, if that's any indication,

476
00:30:12,930 --> 00:30:17,550
I'm sure that all of the all of
the above is true. Yeah, yeah,

477
00:30:17,580 --> 00:30:21,570
the whole thing. The whole thing
is just, it's, it's a crap show.

478
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:26,190
It really is. And I, you know,
whatever motivated us, whatever

479
00:30:26,190 --> 00:30:30,210
I mean, we know what the surface
reasons were, but we're on a

480
00:30:30,210 --> 00:30:33,930
mission from God, Dave, bring
out the book. This is the good

481
00:30:33,930 --> 00:30:38,790
book. We started this at the
right time and look at look at

482
00:30:38,790 --> 00:30:42,030
the results while the pod and I
should say the podcast

483
00:30:42,030 --> 00:30:48,750
industrial complex winter. Well,
that has set in. We have all I

484
00:30:48,750 --> 00:30:52,410
think every single app has done
an update in the past couple of

485
00:30:52,410 --> 00:30:56,400
weeks and good updates. Good
ones. Yeah, good ones. I'm blown

486
00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:01,470
away by podcast guru. The stuff
Mitch is doing with POD verse.

487
00:31:03,060 --> 00:31:06,930
The Fountain version one, which
I think is in beta still is

488
00:31:07,140 --> 00:31:11,670
phenomenally improved. I mean,
the speed the interface, you

489
00:31:11,670 --> 00:31:14,520
know, just there's a lot of
thought went into that, that Sam

490
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:19,140
Sethi launched today I think and
and rebranded to true fans,

491
00:31:19,140 --> 00:31:23,370
which I think is sexy. I liked
it and I like I like true

492
00:31:23,370 --> 00:31:28,320
fans.fm And he's and he's got a
whole M in his vision, which is

493
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,040
clear to me is very different
from what any other podcast app

494
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:36,870
is doing. I love that and I
think that it'll probably really

495
00:31:36,870 --> 00:31:42,390
come to life with this Ainsley
Costello just loud show which is

496
00:31:42,390 --> 00:31:46,650
going to be on true fans pod
verse podcast guru

497
00:31:48,540 --> 00:31:50,370
Dave Jones: I have a breakdown
and you wonder yes please

498
00:31:50,370 --> 00:31:54,060
Adam Curry: please because I and
I, and I love watching how

499
00:31:54,060 --> 00:31:58,950
everyone came together that
Adobe das at RSS blue.com You

500
00:31:58,950 --> 00:32:02,610
know he's doing the RSS feed and
you know everyone's been testing

501
00:32:02,610 --> 00:32:07,560
it's like my heart is full and
warm from just watching all this

502
00:32:07,590 --> 00:32:09,030
little sticky but it's

503
00:32:10,620 --> 00:32:16,410
Dave Jones: that's the eggnog so
I did I would I tuned in to the

504
00:32:16,410 --> 00:32:19,620
one o'clock pm central time Test

505
00:32:19,650 --> 00:32:22,500
Adam Curry: Now was this
blueberry on site as well as he

506
00:32:22,650 --> 00:32:26,010
was he a part of this because
he's teased in this too? I mean,

507
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:27,810
there's all kinds of people I
miss

508
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,470
Dave Jones: I don't know if he
was on site or not but very were

509
00:32:31,470 --> 00:32:36,000
you on site let us know Yeah. So
we did the angular Costello live

510
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,450
test yesterday or not say we did
I was not part of it but I was

511
00:32:39,450 --> 00:32:45,150
testing it. And pod verse five
by five worth work like

512
00:32:45,150 --> 00:32:47,730
Adam Curry: a champ. Yeah. And
that's on the web or the app the

513
00:32:47,730 --> 00:32:50,070
web I guess, the the web I

514
00:32:50,070 --> 00:32:54,990
Dave Jones: did not test on
device for pod verse. Curio

515
00:32:54,990 --> 00:32:59,340
caster. Also five by five
podcast guru, beautiful,

516
00:32:59,370 --> 00:33:04,050
perfect. Pod fans could not. And
I think Sam said this, he said

517
00:33:04,050 --> 00:33:08,700
he had worked to do some it's
like it wanted to play and it

518
00:33:08,700 --> 00:33:12,480
kept trying to go but some it
just wasn't working.

519
00:33:12,690 --> 00:33:17,580
Adam Curry: Sounds like a corps
or DNS issue. It's always what

520
00:33:17,580 --> 00:33:19,440
it is. So

521
00:33:19,470 --> 00:33:25,230
Dave Jones: out of the four
video apps that we add the 14.0

522
00:33:25,230 --> 00:33:30,150
apps that we know support video,
the three the four, beautiful

523
00:33:30,150 --> 00:33:34,050
ready to go in and I'm in I'm
sure that Sam will get fans up

524
00:33:34,050 --> 00:33:38,100
and running. But I mean, like
we're, it was a fun experience.

525
00:33:38,100 --> 00:33:41,520
Um, is it was really cool to see
that

526
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,650
Adam Curry: were you able to
boost as well? What did that

527
00:33:43,650 --> 00:33:45,840
have that up? Did you check all
that stuff or just just the

528
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:46,410
video?

529
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,490
Dave Jones: I didn't try to
boost at the time because I know

530
00:33:50,550 --> 00:33:55,020
PUD and I was curious. Okay,
Securio caster was streaming

531
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:59,970
auto it was streaming per
minute. But I, I did not try to

532
00:33:59,970 --> 00:34:05,430
boost through any of the Alby
back stuff because I think, I

533
00:34:05,430 --> 00:34:07,380
guess we have to talk about the
LP pocalypse.

534
00:34:07,740 --> 00:34:09,480
Adam Curry: Yeah, so of course,
of course we have.

535
00:34:11,219 --> 00:34:13,379
Dave Jones: That was taught so
that was happening at that time.

536
00:34:13,379 --> 00:34:15,719
And I was like, okay, um, I just
want to see the video work. So I

537
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,869
was that's all I was really
focusing on at the moment. But I

538
00:34:18,869 --> 00:34:21,809
mean, like, it was a great
experience to to be able to,

539
00:34:21,809 --> 00:34:28,979
like, pop up and pour gas guru
on my phone. Or the other apps

540
00:34:28,979 --> 00:34:35,339
on the web. And I'm just
watching them have a live jam

541
00:34:35,339 --> 00:34:37,739
session. It was so cool. Wow.

542
00:34:38,369 --> 00:34:42,779
Adam Curry: Yeah, it's rad. So
just looking at some of the

543
00:34:42,929 --> 00:34:48,869
going to another thing here. So
I was messing around with with

544
00:34:48,869 --> 00:34:53,129
podcast guru. And I come across
a feed and yeah, this vigilante

545
00:34:53,129 --> 00:34:55,709
TV that kind of we I think we
talked about that the other day,

546
00:34:55,709 --> 00:34:58,019
like these guys are doing all
kinds of foreign feeds with

547
00:34:58,019 --> 00:35:01,619
everything in there. They've got
They've got value blokes,

548
00:35:01,619 --> 00:35:05,039
they've got everything. And I
find David Icke. Now, of course,

549
00:35:05,069 --> 00:35:08,999
everyone can roll your eyes
about David Icke, lizard, Lizard

550
00:35:08,999 --> 00:35:15,749
Man. But he, he's has in their
ultimate enclosure, which is an

551
00:35:15,779 --> 00:35:24,089
HLS video, which is clearly
streaming, streaming with value

552
00:35:24,089 --> 00:35:28,259
blocks and everything and an on
podcast guru, it just works.

553
00:35:29,189 --> 00:35:32,399
Really? Yes. With the
alternative and closure. I'm

554
00:35:32,399 --> 00:35:35,579
like, what I mean, what is going
on here? The stuff is moving

555
00:35:35,579 --> 00:35:38,549
fast. This is this is
interesting.

556
00:35:39,030 --> 00:35:40,770
Dave Jones: I think the
vigilante.tv thing?

557
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,250
Adam Curry: Well, in the podcast
index is just David Icke,

558
00:35:44,250 --> 00:35:47,580
because there seems to be three
duplicate feeds of the same

559
00:35:47,580 --> 00:35:49,410
thing, which, okay.

560
00:35:51,660 --> 00:35:53,760
Dave Jones: But here I say,
Yeah, but

561
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,030
Adam Curry: there's, but I'm up
because it would start off with

562
00:35:57,030 --> 00:36:00,360
the same video. I'm like, What
is this and the progress bar

563
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:05,760
wasn't moving properly. And then
I started looking into the other

564
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:06,600
streaming.

565
00:36:07,950 --> 00:36:10,290
Dave Jones: And they got Potter,
they get a get pod roll in here.

566
00:36:10,290 --> 00:36:10,710
Yeah,

567
00:36:10,740 --> 00:36:13,500
Adam Curry: everything's in
there. And you know, for a gay

568
00:36:13,530 --> 00:36:20,100
gay a guy like David Icke who,
you know, inherently is not an

569
00:36:20,100 --> 00:36:25,020
advertising friendly guy. Value
provide value for value is

570
00:36:25,020 --> 00:36:27,480
perfect. Perfect.

571
00:36:27,900 --> 00:36:30,480
Dave Jones: I think out that
talked to Alex and he said that

572
00:36:30,990 --> 00:36:35,430
the guys run into what's at hive
tube, which is what vigilantes

573
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:41,850
okay, they took his like, login
basically plugin work yeah. For

574
00:36:41,850 --> 00:36:44,310
to the off and started doing
their own things. I mean, they,

575
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:49,020
they pretty much forked off of
peer tube. They've got all you

576
00:36:49,020 --> 00:36:51,360
know, they're clearly running
his code because it's got to 2.0

577
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:52,050
feeds and all

578
00:36:52,590 --> 00:36:56,220
Adam Curry: right. Dobby das
says boosting live worked on all

579
00:36:56,220 --> 00:36:59,220
apps Dave mentioned and pod
verse video live stream worked

580
00:36:59,220 --> 00:37:04,950
on mobile to price. I mean, I'm,
I am going to, I'm getting a

581
00:37:04,950 --> 00:37:10,950
couple 100 bucks in my wallets.
And I'm going to run all five of

582
00:37:10,950 --> 00:37:14,310
them at the same time. And boost
everybody the same. So Merry

583
00:37:14,310 --> 00:37:15,420
Christmas, everybody.

584
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,230
Dave Jones: You bet the SAT
canon.

585
00:37:20,730 --> 00:37:21,960
Adam Curry: Pew, pew, pew, pew.

586
00:37:23,730 --> 00:37:27,120
Dave Jones: That's a good idea.
Yeah. And they load up, load up

587
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,180
a fat wallet and do it to that.
I'm looking forward to it. So

588
00:37:30,180 --> 00:37:32,280
it's the 20/20.

589
00:37:32,490 --> 00:37:35,100
Adam Curry: I think 20. There's
two shows the 20th and the 21st.

590
00:37:35,130 --> 00:37:40,080
I think Ainslie costello.com.
Our just loud world.com has all

591
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:43,290
the info. Just one other thing I
wanted to mention about because

592
00:37:43,290 --> 00:37:48,540
I was listening to the new media
show. And I was here's the funny

593
00:37:48,540 --> 00:37:53,040
thing was about advertising and
about stats and numbers. And you

594
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:57,210
know how tricky it is. And the
first I would say if I, if I had

595
00:37:57,210 --> 00:38:05,220
a an advertising base show that
I had to show numbers to an

596
00:38:05,220 --> 00:38:09,720
advertiser, but I would hands
down, run that through

597
00:38:09,750 --> 00:38:14,550
blueberry, I believe Todd
Cochran has the best, most

598
00:38:14,580 --> 00:38:20,550
honest, most fair numbers in the
world. Now. I mean, I just I

599
00:38:20,550 --> 00:38:23,880
know the work he's done on that.
But I'm also hearing about how

600
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:28,560
much money he spends, you know,
to make sure that, you know, he

601
00:38:30,030 --> 00:38:33,990
gets an updated scam list. And
there's all these different

602
00:38:33,990 --> 00:38:36,840
things that he has to it's like,
it's like a moving target, it's

603
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:40,950
Whack a Mole. And he spends a
lot of money, time and energy on

604
00:38:40,950 --> 00:38:45,180
it. And meanwhile, I probably
sent him 20 bucks, just me in

605
00:38:45,180 --> 00:38:47,820
booster grams, you know, just to
hear my name on the show, of

606
00:38:47,820 --> 00:38:51,540
course, of course this but then
this, this thing came up about

607
00:38:51,540 --> 00:38:56,010
op three and I just want it
because I was listening to rob,

608
00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:00,180
who says, Well, you know, this
is ideology of transparency and

609
00:39:00,180 --> 00:39:05,520
like, what is this ideology?
Crap. It's not it. So I just

610
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:11,880
want to explain my my feelings
about this. I think the IAB is a

611
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:15,450
scam. It's not that their
numbers are a scam. But

612
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,480
everyone's numbers are
different. It's it's a it's a

613
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:22,620
recommended certification. It's
not like a centralized Nielsen.

614
00:39:22,650 --> 00:39:25,620
The reason why television ad
rates are what they are. One is

615
00:39:25,620 --> 00:39:31,380
because there's artificial
supply, scarcity, scarcity.

616
00:39:31,380 --> 00:39:35,640
Thank you. Because it's on a 24
hour clock instead of you know,

617
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,750
how much inventory do you want,
but it's also one central

618
00:39:40,140 --> 00:39:45,150
approved source. And I think
that what Spurlock has done with

619
00:39:45,150 --> 00:39:56,160
Opie three is really the future
for for any type of download

620
00:39:56,160 --> 00:40:01,800
based ad, download base system
and I'm because if everyone

621
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:05,220
starts contributing to it, and
we all make it open, which is

622
00:40:05,220 --> 00:40:08,670
not not an ideology, it's like I
want to help people I put all my

623
00:40:08,700 --> 00:40:12,510
all my numbers are up there. And
I don't have an advertising

624
00:40:12,510 --> 00:40:14,880
plane it doesn't I don't look at
it either. I really don't care

625
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,520
that much. Because I just want
to be I just need to know if I

626
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,580
can pay the rent. That's
basically the numbers I've

627
00:40:20,580 --> 00:40:23,370
looked at how much do we do? And
if not, I tell the audience you

628
00:40:23,370 --> 00:40:28,590
know, we need more, otherwise, I
can't do this anymore. Right. So

629
00:40:28,620 --> 00:40:34,050
so this became this whole thing.
And I'm just I think there's a

630
00:40:34,050 --> 00:40:37,080
cultural thing going on here.
And I just want to make sure

631
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,620
that's out because I don't know
what it's like in Australia. But

632
00:40:40,620 --> 00:40:44,280
in America if you if you tell a
man your chicken you make

633
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:53,010
chicken noises you can you might
get shot criticism was going on

634
00:40:53,010 --> 00:40:56,970
and on at Todd about chicken
don't want to put your numbers

635
00:40:56,970 --> 00:41:01,710
out there. Like that yellow
that's that's not in America.

636
00:41:01,710 --> 00:41:06,330
That's that's like, slapping the
glove in someone's face in

637
00:41:06,330 --> 00:41:09,990
person. You know it. That's,
that may not be culturally the

638
00:41:09,990 --> 00:41:11,880
same thing. The dual

639
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:13,740
Dave Jones: challenges. Yeah.
And

640
00:41:13,740 --> 00:41:17,880
Adam Curry: I was hurting for
Todd. Right. Wow, man, that's

641
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:21,390
really harsh. I know. Todd
doesn't have to show his number.

642
00:41:21,420 --> 00:41:24,780
No one has to do anything. But.
But also it's like, Come on,

643
00:41:24,780 --> 00:41:29,160
let's like, you know, let's just
calm down a second, that I've

644
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:33,090
never even lashed out at Big
Cridland that hard. But I don't

645
00:41:33,090 --> 00:41:37,290
think he realizes that it's an
America that's culturally. You

646
00:41:37,290 --> 00:41:41,400
know how the C word and America
doesn't mean the same thing in

647
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:42,180
the UK?

648
00:41:42,810 --> 00:41:45,390
Dave Jones: No, yeah. Yeah. So
it's different. Yeah, it's

649
00:41:45,390 --> 00:41:49,080
Adam Curry: that level
different? Probably. So yeah, I

650
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,330
just need to get off my chest.
I'm listening to him like, Oh,

651
00:41:51,330 --> 00:41:54,690
my God, this is really horrible.
This

652
00:41:55,590 --> 00:42:01,890
Dave Jones: is funny. So you
mentioned you mentioned blue. So

653
00:42:01,890 --> 00:42:06,900
Todd, posted in the chat just a
minute ago that he's there

654
00:42:06,900 --> 00:42:12,090
seeing programmatic advertising
CPM, six, between $6 and $14,

655
00:42:12,090 --> 00:42:18,810
depending on what did you know,
you, you could say that, if you

656
00:42:18,810 --> 00:42:28,470
stick it out, if you are, if you
are a an advertising supported

657
00:42:28,470 --> 00:42:32,970
show, and you stick it out
through the dark, you know,

658
00:42:32,970 --> 00:42:38,130
through the dark days of the
podcast winter, Z, you may you

659
00:42:38,130 --> 00:42:41,880
know, the see this, I guess the
silver lining is the CPMs

660
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:45,750
probably would come up a bit.
Because you're gonna have just

661
00:42:45,750 --> 00:42:49,860
less competition. The more
podcast Oh, yeah, game drives

662
00:42:49,860 --> 00:42:51,660
the CPMs down to down to zero.

663
00:42:51,660 --> 00:42:54,570
Adam Curry: So it's just the
whole idea, so antithetical to

664
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,590
the love that you get from a
podcast like, I'm going to rob

665
00:42:58,590 --> 00:43:02,010
the podcast, I'm going to make
you listen to this. Whereas I

666
00:43:02,010 --> 00:43:06,720
mean, I'd prefer to even even if
it's Ben Shapiro going gold. I

667
00:43:06,720 --> 00:43:10,350
mean, you know, it's all right.
I mean, I can handle that. But

668
00:43:10,350 --> 00:43:13,200
it's like, please listen to the
ads, please click on our, you

669
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:17,220
know, go to our advertisers
websites. No, I mean, it's so

670
00:43:17,220 --> 00:43:20,070
much easier to ask for value to
be returned. And

671
00:43:20,100 --> 00:43:22,920
Dave Jones: I guess, you know,
that's, that's what, that's

672
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:27,150
what's wrong with all these
discussions, is that they all

673
00:43:27,150 --> 00:43:31,110
get talked about just like, I
just did it. I just did this.

674
00:43:31,110 --> 00:43:34,770
Yeah. Without thinking about it,
all of these discussions, you

675
00:43:34,770 --> 00:43:38,190
start talking about advertising
and all this kind of stuff as in

676
00:43:38,190 --> 00:43:42,300
a vacuum as if it's a math
problem, right, completely

677
00:43:42,300 --> 00:43:46,530
disregard the listener
experience, and all that stuff.

678
00:43:46,890 --> 00:43:52,110
And as I did that, 15 minutes
after I just finished talking

679
00:43:52,110 --> 00:43:54,840
about this Gilmore Girls
podcast, it drove me crazy.

680
00:43:57,240 --> 00:44:00,210
Well, okay, CPMs and blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, and listener

681
00:44:00,210 --> 00:44:05,070
counts. And it's like, it's so
easy to get enticed into that

682
00:44:05,550 --> 00:44:08,430
into the way of thinking that is
just so this nothing but

683
00:44:08,430 --> 00:44:11,550
metrics. Yeah, we're all you're
just, you're just pushing charts

684
00:44:11,550 --> 00:44:13,440
around all day, and you're
thinking and metrics and

685
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:17,220
numbers, and you're completely
forget that the on the ground

686
00:44:17,220 --> 00:44:20,370
experience of listening to some
of these shows is complete

687
00:44:20,370 --> 00:44:21,030
garbage.

688
00:44:22,110 --> 00:44:27,210
Adam Curry: And I have the same
feeling about all the AI stuff.

689
00:44:27,570 --> 00:44:33,240
You know, it's like, okay, yeah,
we're gonna make podcasting

690
00:44:33,270 --> 00:44:37,290
easier. You know, it'll be
simpler. I've heard a whole

691
00:44:37,290 --> 00:44:41,220
conversations about, well, we
need to make the gear as to auto

692
00:44:41,220 --> 00:44:44,250
configure itself, you know,
sometimes you got to learn

693
00:44:44,250 --> 00:44:47,520
something. You got to learn
something. And if you learn

694
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:50,040
something, then you can get good
at it. And if you put the time

695
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:53,700
in, you know, this, it's not
like a magic money machine.

696
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:56,850
That's how it's treated. That's
how it things on the internet

697
00:44:56,850 --> 00:44:59,760
are always treated that way and
at the end of the day, and I

698
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:04,530
said If you're working your tail
off for some Silicon Valley

699
00:45:04,530 --> 00:45:07,560
company who's giving you a
little pittance at the end of

700
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:11,970
the ride, you are you are
building their business. Every

701
00:45:11,970 --> 00:45:15,870
tweet, you send every YouTube
video your upload, you're doing

702
00:45:15,870 --> 00:45:22,440
it for Google them, maybe
they'll give you something. And

703
00:45:22,590 --> 00:45:27,150
they won't know the probably
won't know that when we started.

704
00:45:27,150 --> 00:45:30,360
I wish I could find one of my
old daily source code openers.

705
00:45:31,950 --> 00:45:36,000
Because it was a British BBC guy
who had interviewed me still

706
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:39,840
alive. I think he was out he was
pretty old then. And it starts

707
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,860
like something is happening
here. And then you know,

708
00:45:43,860 --> 00:45:47,070
something, there's something
going on. People can people with

709
00:45:47,070 --> 00:45:51,960
anything, or nothing to say, can
do this without gatekeepers. And

710
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,840
that that's really what it was
when we first start off. It was,

711
00:45:54,990 --> 00:45:58,410
hey, I can do this. I don't need
a transmitter transmitters. We

712
00:45:58,410 --> 00:46:01,770
don't need no strength. It was
never I can make money just by

713
00:46:01,770 --> 00:46:06,090
putting up an mp3 and getting
some downloads. No, there was

714
00:46:06,090 --> 00:46:09,960
never that. It was never that.
And so this whole so called

715
00:46:09,990 --> 00:46:13,620
industry, which still after 20
years can't agree on their

716
00:46:13,620 --> 00:46:20,250
measurements. It's not an
industry then. 20 years. Yeah.

717
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:25,770
Dave Jones: I still love that.
20 years on. downloads can

718
00:46:25,770 --> 00:46:29,940
evaporate 20% over overnight.
And we're like whoa.

719
00:46:32,130 --> 00:46:33,840
Adam Curry: What? Yeah, like,

720
00:46:33,870 --> 00:46:36,030
Dave Jones: like, oh, we, you
know, we we get this stuff

721
00:46:36,030 --> 00:46:42,660
nailed down. It's fine. And it's
like whoosh, yeah. What do you

722
00:46:42,660 --> 00:46:47,850
want to see? You know, what's
weird is in this hive tube feed.

723
00:46:48,870 --> 00:46:54,120
They have a tag in here called
podcast colon search. Oh, that's

724
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:57,390
Adam Curry: not a real tag. No.
Interesting.

725
00:46:57,840 --> 00:46:58,620
Dave Jones: winging it.

726
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:03,720
Adam Curry: Like Sam like Sam
Sethi. Sam Sethi just every

727
00:47:03,720 --> 00:47:05,490
idea. Oh, I did that.

728
00:47:06,660 --> 00:47:08,580
Dave Jones: Hey, Sam, do you
know that they have a tag? You

729
00:47:08,580 --> 00:47:13,770
don't have? Yeah, maybe better?
Yeah. Yeah, fight go.

730
00:47:14,460 --> 00:47:17,520
Adam Curry: So what was
interesting is that Sam put in

731
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:22,170
the alternate enclosure. And I
guess this is it's a hack. I

732
00:47:22,170 --> 00:47:26,430
guess it was based upon kind of
a flippant remark we made about

733
00:47:26,670 --> 00:47:34,350
embedding a YouTube video as an
enclosure. And so true. fans.fm

734
00:47:34,380 --> 00:47:38,520
has that working? I saw Mitch
was working on some stuff. And

735
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,250
there was some back and forth,
you know, if anyone if this is

736
00:47:41,310 --> 00:47:44,760
have we decided if this is even
possible? I mean, Alex Gates was

737
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:49,230
very clear that, you know, you
can there's a way you can access

738
00:47:49,230 --> 00:47:53,100
the HLS stream or something, but
the apps would have to do some

739
00:47:53,100 --> 00:47:56,460
decoding. I mean, is this have
we determined if this is a thing

740
00:47:56,460 --> 00:47:57,030
or not?

741
00:47:58,410 --> 00:48:01,590
Dave Jones: I could have sworn
that I saw somebody saying that

742
00:48:01,590 --> 00:48:06,060
it worked. But I don't remember
who or what, or anything like

743
00:48:06,060 --> 00:48:11,430
that. I mean, it would, it's got
to be easy to test. You know, I

744
00:48:11,430 --> 00:48:17,220
mean, like, it just has to be
because the altered the HLS

745
00:48:17,220 --> 00:48:21,270
streams are supported, like in
pod verse in pod fans and

746
00:48:21,270 --> 00:48:21,750
podcast

747
00:48:21,750 --> 00:48:23,670
Adam Curry: gurus. Clearly Yeah.

748
00:48:23,940 --> 00:48:26,430
Dave Jones: And curio caster.
Right. But then the thinking

749
00:48:26,430 --> 00:48:30,450
Adam Curry: was that that
wouldn't be possible YouTube

750
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:33,960
wouldn't let that happen. I'm
just wondering if if we'd

751
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:37,020
figured that out? Because I'd
love to try it. I mean, I know

752
00:48:37,020 --> 00:48:40,560
that Steven B is threatened to
put alternate enclosures into

753
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:43,770
sovereign feeds of course. Love
that guy.

754
00:48:45,300 --> 00:48:52,200
Dave Jones: Yeah, but I mean,
yeah, I think that that's see

755
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:55,500
that I mean, there's this
tension between between the

756
00:48:55,500 --> 00:49:01,020
stuff that Sam is doing and the
the hosting companies. No,

757
00:49:01,020 --> 00:49:05,280
Adam Curry: I know that I
understand why I get it. But if

758
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:10,710
I want to put a PDF into my
enclosure, that's valid. As long

759
00:49:10,710 --> 00:49:12,090
as I have the MIME type in
there.

760
00:49:13,500 --> 00:49:16,140
Dave Jones: Yeah, it's just uh,
the the alternate enclosure. I

761
00:49:16,140 --> 00:49:16,740
mean, that's what

762
00:49:16,740 --> 00:49:18,360
Adam Curry: it's for. Yeah,
exactly.

763
00:49:20,370 --> 00:49:22,320
Dave Jones: And I think the I
think the idea is to run you

764
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:28,110
know, if if this Silicon Valley
is going to if they're going to

765
00:49:28,140 --> 00:49:31,530
take everything from you and
give you nothing, well, then,

766
00:49:31,620 --> 00:49:34,860
you know, let's ride the master.
Advantages

767
00:49:34,860 --> 00:49:37,950
Adam Curry: take it from Oh,
ultimate enclosures is indeed in

768
00:49:38,370 --> 00:49:40,650
sovereign feeds. Well, could

769
00:49:40,650 --> 00:49:43,500
Dave Jones: you here's the
here's, here's the good, here's

770
00:49:43,500 --> 00:49:44,730
the good, what could you

771
00:49:46,260 --> 00:49:49,620
Adam Curry: check it out? I can
even I can add the source URI

772
00:49:49,620 --> 00:49:54,630
and then type length bitrate
height, language. Arielle,

773
00:49:54,660 --> 00:49:57,480
codecs, default all kinds of
stuff is in here.

774
00:49:58,500 --> 00:50:01,110
Dave Jones: When did Steven do
that? When does he Does he? What

775
00:50:01,110 --> 00:50:02,340
does he do all this stuff?

776
00:50:02,820 --> 00:50:04,560
Adam Curry: Right after he puts
the kids to bed?

777
00:50:06,089 --> 00:50:06,989
Dave Jones: While he's putting
it?

778
00:50:08,790 --> 00:50:11,040
Adam Curry: Oh, cool, so I can
mess around with that now,

779
00:50:11,460 --> 00:50:14,820
Dave Jones: because I want I
wonder if you could do unlist an

780
00:50:14,850 --> 00:50:19,860
unlisted YouTube video? Oh, and
then just grabbed HLS out of

781
00:50:19,860 --> 00:50:22,620
that. Yeah, I just use that as
the

782
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:25,230
Adam Curry: I just need to know
just need to know how to, quote

783
00:50:25,230 --> 00:50:26,910
unquote grab the HLS

784
00:50:27,540 --> 00:50:30,510
Dave Jones: Yeah, I don't know
that that's, I don't know. I

785
00:50:30,510 --> 00:50:35,040
would assume that something like
something like YouTube DLC, you

786
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:35,580
know, like that can

787
00:50:35,580 --> 00:50:37,980
Adam Curry: write? Right? You
can pick it up from there.

788
00:50:38,430 --> 00:50:42,510
Dave Jones: I bet you that was a
bet you that shows you only try.

789
00:50:45,240 --> 00:50:51,870
Let's see if they've got a do I
have you to DLC to deal? See? I

790
00:50:51,870 --> 00:50:55,860
do not. I will. And I'm not
going to install it right now.

791
00:50:55,860 --> 00:50:57,390
Because that would crash my
computer.

792
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:02,910
Adam Curry: We got 25,000 SATs
from Todd Cochran. Oh, he says

793
00:51:02,970 --> 00:51:06,480
way behind on episodes after
being away for three weeks on a

794
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:10,140
brain break. Oh, man, is it
okay, we're able to put it back

795
00:51:10,140 --> 00:51:15,270
together the break is the new
hack to use YouTube video

796
00:51:15,300 --> 00:51:19,560
annoyed me. And it still does a
bit Oh, I like this. Being

797
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:23,610
blueberry has supported through
video podcasts since the begin

798
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:27,330
beginning fully podcasting two
point podcasting to enable.

799
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:30,930
Getting to point this is the
only function I can get behind

800
00:51:30,930 --> 00:51:34,410
an alt enclosure support which
we can position as a worthwhile

801
00:51:34,410 --> 00:51:38,040
feature. That said once Dave
gets our namespace proposal move

802
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:42,450
forward, we can kill two birds
with one stone. I understand why

803
00:51:42,450 --> 00:51:46,260
you're annoyed by that Todd, I
get that. I do.

804
00:51:47,790 --> 00:51:51,510
Dave Jones: But look at it this
way, though. video, YouTube.

805
00:51:51,780 --> 00:51:54,150
Blueberry is one of the only one
only hosting companies to

806
00:51:54,150 --> 00:51:59,490
support video as an option, and
it costs a lot more money

807
00:51:59,490 --> 00:52:04,530
because of the bandwidth
requirements. This way, you you

808
00:52:04,530 --> 00:52:08,820
keep a customer with and they
can put in their own alternate

809
00:52:08,820 --> 00:52:14,010
video stream perhaps using
YouTube HLS they're going to go

810
00:52:14,010 --> 00:52:18,210
do it themselves. But you keep
the customer because and they

811
00:52:18,210 --> 00:52:23,970
don't bail to YouTube or some
other video platform. And but

812
00:52:23,970 --> 00:52:26,400
they don't it doesn't cost them
any extra. Yeah,

813
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:30,600
Adam Curry: I'm not even gonna
get into that argument. What

814
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:33,420
what is the proposal that he's
talking about? This is the

815
00:52:33,450 --> 00:52:37,470
ultimate feed proposal.
Majority. Yeah. Anything that I

816
00:52:37,470 --> 00:52:38,430
think that's fine too.

817
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:45,990
Dave Jones: Right. Yeah, the one
the discussion we have. Again,

818
00:52:45,990 --> 00:52:47,550
namespace stuff to talk about.

819
00:52:48,210 --> 00:52:49,860
Adam Curry: You don't want it
you want is you want to fire it

820
00:52:49,860 --> 00:52:57,960
up. Hit it. And now it's time
for some hot names call so hot

821
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:00,150
is heating up the podcast
winter.

822
00:53:03,060 --> 00:53:07,170
Dave Jones: We kind of something
makes me want to want like a

823
00:53:07,170 --> 00:53:09,960
Christmas version of hot
namespace.

824
00:53:10,140 --> 00:53:12,780
Adam Curry: Okay, hold on a
second. I think we can do this

825
00:53:12,780 --> 00:53:15,630
flip with like sleigh bells or
something you name Let me see.

826
00:53:15,660 --> 00:53:18,060
Let me say why don't we try this
again? Let's see if we can do

827
00:53:18,060 --> 00:53:26,790
this. Is not it? No, that's not
even close now. Okay, let's try

828
00:53:26,790 --> 00:53:35,640
it again. And now it's time for
some namespace. You go Christmas

829
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:38,340
namespace talk. Yeah.

830
00:53:38,970 --> 00:53:42,990
Dave Jones: Maybe you want to,
maybe you have an eggnog with

831
00:53:43,470 --> 00:53:45,390
with some leg of Mulan.

832
00:53:50,070 --> 00:53:52,980
Adam Curry: Wow, that's very
insulting to the Lagavulin, but

833
00:53:52,980 --> 00:53:53,460
okay.

834
00:53:56,970 --> 00:53:59,310
Dave Jones: MacAllan 18. Oh,
yeah,

835
00:53:59,310 --> 00:54:01,800
Adam Curry: it gets gets better,
gets better McCallum

836
00:54:02,670 --> 00:54:05,130
Dave Jones: and you're like,
hey, sweet. Hey, sweetheart. Can

837
00:54:05,130 --> 00:54:08,370
we talk about namespace the
lightning, the lightning

838
00:54:08,370 --> 00:54:10,830
interest attribute on the value
tag?

839
00:54:10,890 --> 00:54:14,760
Adam Curry: Yeah. Oh, honey, I'm
so hot for you right now. And

840
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,640
Dave Jones: she says I want to
divorce. Right.

841
00:54:18,090 --> 00:54:18,750
Adam Curry: Right away.

842
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:23,220
Dave Jones: That is that that is
something that we need to talk

843
00:54:23,220 --> 00:54:29,340
about. So the lightning address
thing in the value. We talked

844
00:54:29,340 --> 00:54:35,100
about this briefly a few weeks
ago. Oscar and and the lb guys

845
00:54:35,580 --> 00:54:43,110
wanted it. Want an ad want a new
attribute on the value recipient

846
00:54:43,110 --> 00:54:49,020
tag? That would take a lightning
a key send address, right? So

847
00:54:49,020 --> 00:54:52,440
that you could say like, you
know, David get alby.com instead

848
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:58,980
of the 100 node ID which is
fine. The sticking point though.

849
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:04,260
It has been two things. What do
you call it? I think we've got

850
00:55:04,260 --> 00:55:05,070
that settled.

851
00:55:05,610 --> 00:55:07,260
Adam Curry: But then what do we
call it? What

852
00:55:07,260 --> 00:55:10,380
Dave Jones: is the name? Is the
attributes just going to be

853
00:55:10,380 --> 00:55:15,090
called Kison? Lightning address
thingy? Is Lola will already

854
00:55:15,330 --> 00:55:17,190
Adam Curry: work? You said.
Yeah,

855
00:55:17,190 --> 00:55:21,630
Dave Jones: keys. And so the
idea here would be that you have

856
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:27,450
a instead of a type of node, you
have a type of keys and and that

857
00:55:27,660 --> 00:55:32,070
unlocks a key send attribute,
which then has the key send

858
00:55:32,070 --> 00:55:40,590
address in it like David get
albedo? That's fine, except for

859
00:55:40,620 --> 00:55:45,690
a couple of couple of things. Is
this is this than an exclusive

860
00:55:45,690 --> 00:55:52,440
thing? Does that mean that now
all that you have in the value

861
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:59,430
recipient tag is just the key
send attribute with the key send

862
00:55:59,430 --> 00:56:05,070
address in it? Or do you also
still retain the node ID, the

863
00:56:05,070 --> 00:56:08,490
address attribute with the node
ID in it also, and then you just

864
00:56:08,490 --> 00:56:14,310
have a situation where where the
address is tried first? You

865
00:56:14,310 --> 00:56:15,810
know, you'd like it, then you
have both, but you have a

866
00:56:15,810 --> 00:56:21,870
priority. One one over the
other. That's, that's one thing

867
00:56:22,020 --> 00:56:26,160
that we don't know yet. That
that Michael from WaveLight

868
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:30,660
brought up. And then the other
thing is, where does the

869
00:56:30,660 --> 00:56:34,680
resolution happen? So the two
people bringing this up, or

870
00:56:34,860 --> 00:56:38,070
Oscar for fountain and the gas
from Alby?

871
00:56:39,090 --> 00:56:41,850
Adam Curry: Yeah, that was just
a good question. Where does the

872
00:56:41,850 --> 00:56:45,000
resolution happen? Because in my
case, that means it got to set

873
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:49,170
up a server, I gotta have a cert
gotta do all kinds of

874
00:56:49,170 --> 00:56:51,270
Dave Jones: Oh, no, no, no, no,
no, no, this, I'm talking about

875
00:56:51,270 --> 00:56:52,650
client side resolution.

876
00:56:53,970 --> 00:56:56,610
Adam Curry: How do they resolve
it? Where do they resolve it? At

877
00:56:56,610 --> 00:56:57,420
what point?

878
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:01,980
Dave Jones: Right? Does the so
in this case, cast ematic has to

879
00:57:01,980 --> 00:57:05,940
look has to do it looks into
splits? Do they have to look up

880
00:57:05,940 --> 00:57:09,780
the address before they send you
the split? So that they can get

881
00:57:09,810 --> 00:57:16,260
the node ID the correct node IDs
to send in the lb API calls? Or

882
00:57:16,260 --> 00:57:23,070
can or can Franco just provide
the address in the lb API call?

883
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:27,840
And lb does the lookup on their
side? Whoo,

884
00:57:27,870 --> 00:57:30,780
Adam Curry: well, that sounds
dangerous, because now you have

885
00:57:30,780 --> 00:57:38,010
something that is specific to
the wallet. And the wallets API

886
00:57:38,010 --> 00:57:40,830
instead of something universal
that everybody can just

887
00:57:40,860 --> 00:57:45,300
implement and say, okay, but I
have to look this up. Right?

888
00:57:45,390 --> 00:57:50,160
Because let's put it this way,
if it's wallet side, and I

889
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:54,030
decided for whatever reason I
wanted to do Adam mccurry.com, I

890
00:57:54,030 --> 00:57:57,300
would have to provide that
somehow.

891
00:57:59,880 --> 00:58:01,290
Dave Jones: Right? If you're if
my

892
00:58:01,290 --> 00:58:04,770
Adam Curry: wallet and API like
that, I mean, it's easier for me

893
00:58:04,770 --> 00:58:09,120
to do, even though a pain in the
ass, and I won't do it, it will

894
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:13,320
be easier for me to set up a
reverse proxy on my start nine

895
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:17,520
and have a well known address
type file there that just you

896
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:20,790
know, serves it up instead of
trying to figure out how to bake

897
00:58:20,790 --> 00:58:21,960
that into my wallet.

898
00:58:23,100 --> 00:58:27,720
Dave Jones: I agree. I agree.
And so that, then that's really

899
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:31,110
that's that's the issue. I don't
think we can move forward until

900
00:58:31,110 --> 00:58:34,110
we have an answer. Do we have an
answer to that question? Because

901
00:58:34,110 --> 00:58:37,290
that's the prioritization
question. I think we can. I

902
00:58:37,290 --> 00:58:39,960
think we can plow ahead and come
up with something on that. That

903
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:43,050
makes sense, right. But the
issue of where it gets resolved,

904
00:58:43,770 --> 00:58:44,160
if

905
00:58:44,220 --> 00:58:46,620
Adam Curry: I'm sorry, could you
explain the prioritization one

906
00:58:46,620 --> 00:58:48,750
more time, just so I understand
what's happening there?

907
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:52,320
Dave Jones: Well, that was just
an issue of like, do do we keep?

908
00:58:52,860 --> 00:58:55,860
So in one. So with that you have
it, let's say you have a value

909
00:58:55,860 --> 00:58:58,920
recipient, and it's got to end
the value recipient is of type

910
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:06,780
key send, instead of type node,
then now do you still keep the

911
00:59:06,780 --> 00:59:10,260
node address attribute in there
and also have a key send

912
00:59:10,260 --> 00:59:15,270
address? And you just say, okay,
hey, clients, try key send

913
00:59:15,270 --> 00:59:20,820
address first. If that fails,
then fall back to try the node.

914
00:59:20,820 --> 00:59:23,790
Id got it. That's a little it
can get a little squirrely.

915
00:59:24,390 --> 00:59:24,810
Yeah,

916
00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:28,110
Adam Curry: hold on a second.
Try the keys and address first

917
00:59:28,110 --> 00:59:33,090
so so there's there will be a
fail basically, on my on my

918
00:59:33,090 --> 00:59:37,200
blocks, first, it will be a
fail. So why do we why are we

919
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:39,780
giving that priority? Am I
standing?

920
00:59:40,020 --> 00:59:42,630
Dave Jones: Yeah, you're
misunderstands the values. This

921
00:59:42,630 --> 00:59:47,430
is only if the value recipient
type is equal to keys and if it

922
00:59:47,430 --> 00:59:50,850
remained if your value recipient
type is no like it's always been

923
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:55,470
not an issue because the because
the key said address attribute

924
00:59:55,470 --> 00:59:58,950
is not even going to be in the
tag. Okay, got it. Yeah, but

925
00:59:59,700 --> 01:00:04,530
this I don't, I was hoping to
wrap this up quickly. But that

926
01:00:05,460 --> 01:00:10,260
that issue of of something like
cast ematic, potentially having

927
01:00:10,260 --> 01:00:14,580
to resolve multiple addresses
before they can even do the

928
01:00:14,580 --> 01:00:20,310
lookups. Like, that's just that
is a that's a showstopper man.

929
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:25,410
And I think if if Albie or
whoever is, you know, whichever

930
01:00:25,410 --> 01:00:30,870
API's are providing the payment
services, if they can put the

931
01:00:30,870 --> 01:00:34,920
if, if they want this, I feel
like they should put it into

932
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:39,510
their API to allow this to be
resolved on their end. Because

933
01:00:39,510 --> 01:00:43,590
it's, it's such a heavy lift for
a client to have to send

934
01:00:43,590 --> 01:00:48,960
potentially dozens of HTTP
requests before they can start,

935
01:00:49,110 --> 01:00:53,280
pay, even start the payment.
Yes, caching and all that stuff.

936
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:56,070
But you don't have a lot of
clients that state to have to

937
01:00:56,070 --> 01:00:57,180
handle. But

938
01:00:57,210 --> 01:01:00,360
Adam Curry: so so when you have
an app that is just used to

939
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:05,550
sending a key send payment, what
does the app developer have to

940
01:01:05,550 --> 01:01:09,210
change now? Do they have to talk
to the Alby API?

941
01:01:10,710 --> 01:01:14,250
Dave Jones: Well, if they so
regarding the whole

942
01:01:14,250 --> 01:01:16,320
Adam Curry: lightning idea,
doesn't it? Well,

943
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:21,570
Dave Jones: the way it would
ideally work is if you have if

944
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:24,450
they're going through and making
a payment to a value recipient

945
01:01:24,450 --> 01:01:31,530
who has a type of node, then per
excuse me a type of send keys

946
01:01:31,530 --> 01:01:37,920
and then they would have a link,
grab the add the address out of

947
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:43,860
there. And just give it to the
Albie API and say, here's how

948
01:01:43,860 --> 01:01:46,350
much to send. And you're done.
Stephen

949
01:01:46,350 --> 01:01:50,850
Adam Curry: crater with weighs
in? And we take this advice from

950
01:01:50,850 --> 01:01:54,750
him seriously? Yes, the app
should look up the well known

951
01:01:54,750 --> 01:01:58,380
and use the Node Info in the
return JSON data, no special

952
01:01:58,380 --> 01:02:00,060
API. That's what he says.

953
01:02:02,070 --> 01:02:06,360
Dave Jones: Use the Node Info in
the return JSON data that the

954
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:08,880
apps themselves the client,
yeah,

955
01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:12,570
Adam Curry: that's it. But
that's, uh, now they could cache

956
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:16,170
they could cache but it is it is
it is extra work was

957
01:02:16,170 --> 01:02:19,050
Dave Jones: a year because then
you got state? You know, I mean,

958
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:22,170
then you got to deal, then you
got to deal with one of the two

959
01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:26,190
hardest things in, you know, in
programming cache invalidation.

960
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:30,060
When do you have? You know, I
don't know. It's just, it just

961
01:02:30,060 --> 01:02:35,190
seems like, it seems like the
server side to me, the API side

962
01:02:35,850 --> 01:02:39,600
is the right place to do this. I
mean, it's like, it's like

963
01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:43,710
asking, you know, it's like
saying, Okay, well, I'm getting

964
01:02:43,710 --> 01:02:46,800
all this stuff, all my all of my
feed data from the podcast index

965
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:51,480
API. But whenever I see a domain
name, I'm gonna have to resolve

966
01:02:51,480 --> 01:02:55,680
that myself and only ask podcast
index API for IP addresses.

967
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:56,280
Right?

968
01:02:56,280 --> 01:02:58,680
Adam Curry: But but now we're
taking the beauty of the

969
01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:01,680
Lightning Network out of the
equation almost. And you're just

970
01:03:01,710 --> 01:03:05,250
you're just doing an API call to
a wallet. But

971
01:03:05,250 --> 01:03:07,560
Dave Jones: that's what they're
doing already, though. Like,

972
01:03:07,590 --> 01:03:10,800
like with like, with cast
ematic. And in pod verse,

973
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:13,770
they're not doing direct
communication with the Lightning

974
01:03:13,770 --> 01:03:16,440
Network. They're using LB is
there, right,

975
01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:18,750
Adam Curry: but in that case,
but now we're talking that you

976
01:03:18,750 --> 01:03:22,590
have lbs send, and then I'll be
as received so you so now the

977
01:03:22,590 --> 01:03:26,820
sending wallet, let's just say
that cast thematic was using the

978
01:03:26,820 --> 01:03:32,820
FUBAR wallet, which just knows
how to send key send. Now that

979
01:03:32,820 --> 01:03:34,380
wallet now has to change.

980
01:03:37,410 --> 01:03:40,980
Dave Jones: The way it sends? I
don't think so. No, no, no,

981
01:03:40,980 --> 01:03:44,700
because Because Alby in this, in
this instance, Abby would be

982
01:03:44,700 --> 01:03:47,310
doing the would they be doing
the resolution, Alby would be

983
01:03:47,310 --> 01:03:50,310
handling node IDs the way it
always did under the covers?

984
01:03:50,610 --> 01:03:52,620
Right? Initially resolve it,

985
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:55,560
Adam Curry: but that's okay. But
now,

986
01:03:56,670 --> 01:03:59,160
Dave Jones: so like, it's so
take, take the example of you

987
01:03:59,160 --> 01:04:04,620
have, you have your Umbral or
your start nine attached to your

988
01:04:04,620 --> 01:04:05,400
Alby account,

989
01:04:05,670 --> 01:04:08,190
Adam Curry: you but let's say I
don't, okay. Let's just say I

990
01:04:08,190 --> 01:04:11,790
don't to make because Because
yeah, now now the sending and

991
01:04:11,790 --> 01:04:15,120
the receiving is being done on
the lb Wallet. So it's really

992
01:04:15,120 --> 01:04:18,030
just an API call is not even a
lightning payment.

993
01:04:19,530 --> 01:04:20,700
Dave Jones: You see what I'm
saying? You're talking about

994
01:04:20,700 --> 01:04:21,990
from an lb to an lb.

995
01:04:23,790 --> 01:04:29,220
Adam Curry: I'm talking. This is
confusing, well in and I think

996
01:04:29,220 --> 01:04:31,920
in this case is good that I'm
stupid because I can ask the

997
01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:34,980
dumb question. So let's say I'm
going from an Alby wallet to a

998
01:04:34,980 --> 01:04:39,570
fountain wallet. How did how
does that work in this scenario

999
01:04:39,570 --> 01:04:41,130
was looking up on the API?

1000
01:04:42,690 --> 01:04:47,400
Dave Jones: Okay, so on fountain
let's say you have a podcast

1001
01:04:48,660 --> 01:04:56,100
that is hosted hostless a
podcast is hosted@rss.com and

1002
01:04:56,580 --> 01:05:01,020
the podcaster claimed it on
fountain Yeah, and added their

1003
01:05:01,890 --> 01:05:06,720
added their note, note
information, which which in this

1004
01:05:06,750 --> 01:05:11,340
case would be something like
dave@fountain.fm. Right, added

1005
01:05:11,340 --> 01:05:16,680
their address to their feed that
gets sent to podcasts index API.

1006
01:05:17,040 --> 01:05:23,640
Now pod verse goes to send a
payment to that podcaster. They

1007
01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:28,920
see the address, make a request
to albies API to send 1000 SATs

1008
01:05:28,950 --> 01:05:34,590
to dave@fountain.fm. I'll be
resolved that fountain.fm into

1009
01:05:34,590 --> 01:05:40,770
the long hex string of have the
node ID, the lightning node ID

1010
01:05:40,770 --> 01:05:45,000
that that it resolves to. Then
since the keys in payment,

1011
01:05:45,030 --> 01:05:46,320
Adam Curry: how was it resolving
it?

1012
01:05:47,940 --> 01:05:49,320
Dave Jones: Using the dot well
known?

1013
01:05:50,940 --> 01:05:52,800
Adam Curry: So the wallet does
the resolution.

1014
01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:57,000
Dave Jones: The the API making
the payment would do the

1015
01:05:57,000 --> 01:06:04,140
resolution? If if it's going
through an API, like like so

1016
01:06:04,140 --> 01:06:07,500
for, you know, in this regard,
pod verse never does anything

1017
01:06:07,500 --> 01:06:11,520
itself, it always uses lb,
right. So I'm saying that I'm

1018
01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:16,320
saying that if lb wants this
functionality, they should

1019
01:06:16,320 --> 01:06:19,650
provide the address resolution
services. So the clients don't

1020
01:06:19,650 --> 01:06:20,940
have to do anything diff. So

1021
01:06:20,940 --> 01:06:24,510
Adam Curry: let's say there's a
podcast app. And I'm just

1022
01:06:24,540 --> 01:06:29,970
imagining something crazy. Let's
say that I want to send this

1023
01:06:29,970 --> 01:06:33,570
payment from my own start nine
node that I had, that's my

1024
01:06:33,570 --> 01:06:37,770
wallet, which is act technically
not mounting, that's a thing

1025
01:06:37,770 --> 01:06:46,260
except through Guillermo is on
was it called?

1026
01:06:47,460 --> 01:06:50,670
Dave Jones: The Chrome
extension, pod station, pod

1027
01:06:50,670 --> 01:06:51,150
station,

1028
01:06:51,180 --> 01:06:53,910
Adam Curry: pod station, I can
connect to my own node. Now how

1029
01:06:53,910 --> 01:06:54,570
does it work?

1030
01:06:57,720 --> 01:07:04,560
Dave Jones: The in that, in that
situation? Since there is no API

1031
01:07:04,590 --> 01:07:08,190
intermediary API, pod station
would have to do the resolution.

1032
01:07:08,460 --> 01:07:12,990
Adam Curry: Ah, that's where I
have a problem. Okay, because

1033
01:07:12,990 --> 01:07:18,180
now pod station has to do has to
talk to an API somewhere. So pod

1034
01:07:18,180 --> 01:07:19,470
station has to upgrade.

1035
01:07:20,490 --> 01:07:22,800
Dave Jones: Well, he does have
to chain make a change, but it

1036
01:07:22,800 --> 01:07:25,410
wouldn't be talking to an API,
he would just do an address

1037
01:07:25,410 --> 01:07:31,080
resolution lookup, which is just
an HTTP request. Like his his

1038
01:07:31,140 --> 01:07:35,910
his example, maybe not be, maybe
it's not a great one, because

1039
01:07:36,690 --> 01:07:40,920
it's mostly a desktop app and a
browser extension. And the

1040
01:07:40,950 --> 01:07:43,800
speeds and everything are
probably not going to be a very

1041
01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:48,660
big deal. It's a bigger deal
when you when you have something

1042
01:07:48,660 --> 01:07:52,890
like, curio caster, or and let's
say antenna pod, if they did

1043
01:07:52,890 --> 01:07:55,410
value for value payments, where
they don't have, they don't have

1044
01:07:55,410 --> 01:07:58,920
they have no server, they have
no infrastructure is really just

1045
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:04,080
all client side. In that you
really don't want to have to do

1046
01:08:04,080 --> 01:08:09,600
all those HTTP recall calls on a
mobile app. Just in order to get

1047
01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:12,150
yourself set up to do an API
call, just do it.

1048
01:08:12,930 --> 01:08:16,260
Adam Curry: I think that maybe
I'm confusing or conflating

1049
01:08:16,290 --> 01:08:19,230
issues. The reason why I'm
bringing this up is I'm as you

1050
01:08:19,230 --> 01:08:26,190
know, I'm a staunch supporter of
non custodial wallets, non

1051
01:08:26,190 --> 01:08:30,150
custodial systems, and we're
already seeing the groaning and

1052
01:08:30,150 --> 01:08:35,940
creaking. And I think we all got
a slight, like, a mini heart

1053
01:08:35,940 --> 01:08:39,540
attack when I'll be stopped.
Now, it's all going to be okay.

1054
01:08:39,870 --> 01:08:45,390
But when Alby said Oh, no new
accounts, right? You know, I

1055
01:08:45,390 --> 01:08:49,170
think we should always, always,
always keep in mind, a

1056
01:08:49,170 --> 01:08:52,830
decentralized world, especially
when it comes to the payments.

1057
01:08:53,040 --> 01:08:58,110
And we've now centralized
ourselves into a box. Right? I

1058
01:08:58,110 --> 01:09:03,390
feel that I would like to use
pod verse on my own node. I

1059
01:09:03,390 --> 01:09:06,960
can't. But I would like to, I
think we need to start thinking

1060
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:09,720
about that as we make these
changes.

1061
01:09:13,979 --> 01:09:20,729
Dave Jones: Yeah, well, this is,
this is this is the big, this is

1062
01:09:20,729 --> 01:09:24,869
the big issue. I mean, like,
once you talk about anything,

1063
01:09:25,199 --> 01:09:29,399
this is, this is not just a Crip
crip to you know, cryptocurrency

1064
01:09:29,399 --> 01:09:32,729
issues, not just a bitcoin is I
know, I know, it's true for

1065
01:09:32,729 --> 01:09:37,049
every thing. I mean, like,
anytime you talk about anytime

1066
01:09:37,049 --> 01:09:40,799
you bring in payment
infrastructure into anything.

1067
01:09:41,579 --> 01:09:46,529
Now you have to think about
what's the A, what API are you

1068
01:09:46,529 --> 01:09:50,429
going to use? And are you gonna
go try to do it very direct? Are

1069
01:09:50,429 --> 01:09:54,929
you going to try to use like a
layered API like Stripe, plaid,

1070
01:09:55,469 --> 01:09:58,799
or something like that? I mean,
these are these are sort of

1071
01:09:58,799 --> 01:10:03,389
universal questions when it It
comes to this this type of, of

1072
01:10:03,389 --> 01:10:11,939
thing. And, you know, lb you
know, so the lb thing. Yeah,

1073
01:10:11,939 --> 01:10:13,859
you're right. It gave everybody
a heart attack because it's

1074
01:10:13,859 --> 01:10:16,799
like, well, they've been, you
know, they've been growing.

1075
01:10:16,829 --> 01:10:20,189
They've clearly, you know, I'm
trying to get him on the show,

1076
01:10:20,189 --> 01:10:25,109
and I will soon. They couldn't
make it this week. But you know,

1077
01:10:25,109 --> 01:10:31,499
clearly, clearly they've grown
way faster than they were could

1078
01:10:31,499 --> 01:10:32,129
handle.

1079
01:10:33,569 --> 01:10:36,149
Adam Curry: If you look at the
telegram group, I've seen a lot

1080
01:10:36,149 --> 01:10:39,269
of Chinese people. And I'm
nothing I'm, I'm not going to be

1081
01:10:39,269 --> 01:10:42,629
racist, but I'm going to be for
a second. When you see the

1082
01:10:42,629 --> 01:10:45,899
Chinese showing up, you'd like
Oh, man. Yeah, I would be

1083
01:10:45,899 --> 01:10:50,069
worried myself like, okay, or is
it Korean? Or is it North

1084
01:10:50,069 --> 01:10:53,159
Korean, South Korean? What are
these guys wanting? There's

1085
01:10:53,159 --> 01:10:55,799
people building bots off of
their services. And there's all

1086
01:10:55,799 --> 01:10:59,699
kinds of stuff going on. I once
I dived into what's going on

1087
01:10:59,699 --> 01:11:02,489
over there. I mean, it's not
it's one thing to have

1088
01:11:02,489 --> 01:11:07,709
podcasting 2.0 API. I'm not sure
even the how much, you know, the

1089
01:11:07,709 --> 01:11:11,579
taxing amount of the noster
stuff. I have no idea. But I can

1090
01:11:11,579 --> 01:11:14,369
see there's a lot of people
doing stuff on their API that

1091
01:11:14,369 --> 01:11:15,599
would have me freaked out.

1092
01:11:17,130 --> 01:11:19,170
Dave Jones: Was Yeah, I think
you're right, I think that's

1093
01:11:19,170 --> 01:11:24,420
probably very much could be a
spam defense measure,

1094
01:11:24,450 --> 01:11:28,110
Adam Curry: I would think so.
Well, the million SATs limit was

1095
01:11:28,290 --> 01:11:31,710
the obvious canary in the coal
mine. They're like, Hey, guys,

1096
01:11:32,040 --> 01:11:36,750
our mission is we're just a
small provider for small day to

1097
01:11:36,750 --> 01:11:41,610
day payments makes total sense.
But now we're look people are

1098
01:11:41,640 --> 01:11:44,040
Ms, a whole bunch of things
going on at the same time. And

1099
01:11:44,070 --> 01:11:49,740
all I'm saying is and I have no
business, being able to really

1100
01:11:49,740 --> 01:11:55,200
given opinion about this about
the API stuff, and who does what

1101
01:11:55,440 --> 01:12:00,480
other than I would like to see,
at all times, we always think

1102
01:12:00,480 --> 01:12:07,650
about sovereignty. So I agree.
And, and this has kind of been

1103
01:12:07,650 --> 01:12:13,050
bugging me for a long time, but
I would really like to just use

1104
01:12:13,080 --> 01:12:17,550
is handy to have Alby. And now B
is also my login for five

1105
01:12:17,550 --> 01:12:22,170
things, you know, which creeps
me out because of Alby goes

1106
01:12:22,170 --> 01:12:25,860
down, I can't get into you know,
I can't get into stuff like

1107
01:12:25,860 --> 01:12:29,190
split kit, I won't be able to
use it. Who knows what will

1108
01:12:29,190 --> 01:12:33,450
happen? So I just want to make
sure that we we keep the

1109
01:12:33,480 --> 01:12:40,050
ultimate future, which will have
I can guarantee you there will

1110
01:12:40,050 --> 01:12:45,930
be a day when we will need to
have a sovereign self hosted I

1111
01:12:45,930 --> 01:12:50,400
think is the term but your own
noncustodial wallet capability

1112
01:12:50,430 --> 01:12:54,120
for this? I can see it coming.

1113
01:12:57,090 --> 01:12:59,070
Dave Jones: Probably, yeah,
you're probably right.

1114
01:12:59,099 --> 01:13:02,999
Adam Curry: So I don't want this
little like, like heart shock we

1115
01:13:02,999 --> 01:13:07,079
got the other day. I can only
imagine.

1116
01:13:08,880 --> 01:13:12,990
Dave Jones: Well, you know, I
think on a long enough, on a

1117
01:13:12,990 --> 01:13:17,100
long enough time scale, who I
don't nobody can say how long.

1118
01:13:18,210 --> 01:13:24,600
But I think on enough of a
timescale, this. The these feel

1119
01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:28,620
like growing pains of the oven
that are natural,

1120
01:13:28,649 --> 01:13:30,539
Adam Curry: oh, look at the
quality of the problem. And this

1121
01:13:30,539 --> 01:13:33,449
is these are great problems to
have. I'm excited about that.

1122
01:13:34,079 --> 01:13:34,349
Yeah,

1123
01:13:34,349 --> 01:13:38,729
Dave Jones: so you you're gonna
have, like, there's the issue

1124
01:13:38,729 --> 01:13:42,329
here is that the issue here is
that lightning is trying to do

1125
01:13:42,329 --> 01:13:50,159
something in general, that is
very, I don't want to it's Well,

1126
01:13:50,159 --> 01:13:55,379
I can't say it's trying to do
something that's new. Like

1127
01:13:55,409 --> 01:14:00,869
lightning is doing is providing
small, like micro transaction

1128
01:14:00,869 --> 01:14:09,809
level liquidity in a way that
is, in a way this maintain some

1129
01:14:09,809 --> 01:14:15,059
level of sovereignty, that is in
his peer to peer that is very

1130
01:14:15,059 --> 01:14:25,019
difficult to do on scale with
Bitcoin, because that's not have

1131
01:14:25,019 --> 01:14:28,859
the coin was built, wasn't built
for the micro transaction stuff.

1132
01:14:29,789 --> 01:14:33,839
So it's trying to do something
new. And this is this was a

1133
01:14:33,839 --> 01:14:37,799
predictable growing pain because
you you've got, like, you can

1134
01:14:37,799 --> 01:14:41,069
see where we are. And let me try
to be more clear on and I'm

1135
01:14:41,489 --> 01:14:45,449
being hard to understand here.
But like, you can even see like

1136
01:14:45,479 --> 01:14:48,119
think about where we were
everybody running their own

1137
01:14:48,119 --> 01:14:55,199
node, one lnd, sphinx voltage or
whatever, right? Then you have

1138
01:14:56,219 --> 01:15:01,229
Ellen pay, which is sort of next
step. If first step of evolution

1139
01:15:01,229 --> 01:15:07,079
there. LB which is next step of
evolution project out into the

1140
01:15:07,079 --> 01:15:15,749
future and you have you have
something Greenlight esque. That

1141
01:15:15,749 --> 01:15:23,249
is that is sovereign. That is
good noncustodial but still is

1142
01:15:23,249 --> 01:15:27,839
May is portable, right? Like,
how's the trend cloud vs. We're

1143
01:15:27,839 --> 01:15:31,259
trying to get from where we are
now to where it to that thing.

1144
01:15:31,979 --> 01:15:37,529
And like that's a that's what
the next X amount of time is

1145
01:15:37,529 --> 01:15:41,879
going to be like. It's we're
getting there. But it's just a

1146
01:15:41,879 --> 01:15:45,119
hard transition to make and
like, look at what Alex had to

1147
01:15:45,119 --> 01:15:49,229
do with no agenda to I mean, no
agenda to he had to shut down

1148
01:15:49,229 --> 01:15:53,099
signups on that because of spam
signups. You can only imagine

1149
01:15:53,099 --> 01:15:58,529
what, you know, what it what the
spam volume and hat and huckster

1150
01:15:58,529 --> 01:16:02,129
volume is, when you know, when
you're talking about a payment

1151
01:16:02,129 --> 01:16:06,839
platform. Now, it's now it's
just off the chart, you know, so

1152
01:16:06,899 --> 01:16:10,079
that, it surprises me that they
didn't run into this problem

1153
01:16:10,079 --> 01:16:16,979
sooner. And when it comes when
you get to that day, where your

1154
01:16:16,979 --> 01:16:22,379
spam signup volume is, it, it's
like every, it's like it's a

1155
01:16:22,379 --> 01:16:26,069
trickle and a trickle and then a
flood, right. And when that day

1156
01:16:26,069 --> 01:16:29,429
hits, it's heartburn. And you,
you really don't know what else

1157
01:16:29,429 --> 01:16:32,849
to do other than just like stop
sign ups and say, you've got to

1158
01:16:32,849 --> 01:16:37,769
email me so we can vet you who
the human being Yeah. But I feel

1159
01:16:37,769 --> 01:16:40,259
like, I feel like we're in this
is why I want to get him on the

1160
01:16:40,259 --> 01:16:43,829
show. So we can hear so we can
talk about, like, get an idea

1161
01:16:43,829 --> 01:16:45,959
what the future plans are. And
they've talked, you know, they

1162
01:16:45,959 --> 01:16:48,809
talked about on office hours the
other day, it sounds like their

1163
01:16:48,809 --> 01:16:53,459
future plans are exactly what
we've, what we're thinking they

1164
01:16:53,459 --> 01:16:57,929
probably are. But they just had
this like, you know, they had

1165
01:16:57,929 --> 01:17:00,929
some some event that happened
where they were like, Oh, crap,

1166
01:17:01,049 --> 01:17:07,499
right. So I don't know. I mean,
it's still the best is still the

1167
01:17:07,499 --> 01:17:12,959
best solution for for for PI for
2.0. Apps. Yeah, now it's out

1168
01:17:12,959 --> 01:17:13,439
there. Right.

1169
01:17:13,439 --> 01:17:17,459
Adam Curry: But but but as we
move forward. So we we come back

1170
01:17:17,459 --> 01:17:25,709
to the original question. Do we
have who who does the lookup and

1171
01:17:25,979 --> 01:17:27,299
and how was that handled?

1172
01:17:29,819 --> 01:17:32,579
Dave Jones: I don't see how we
can move forward with a with a

1173
01:17:32,579 --> 01:17:38,339
proposal that where the lookups
have to happen client side?

1174
01:17:40,979 --> 01:17:43,289
Well, let me let me take that
back. That was the wrong way to

1175
01:17:43,289 --> 01:17:47,969
say that. I don't see how we
move forward until we have until

1176
01:17:47,969 --> 01:17:50,969
we have lb tail and I've asked
them this in the discussion

1177
01:17:50,969 --> 01:17:57,599
thread. If lb can provide the
lookup for us. That I think that

1178
01:17:57,599 --> 01:18:03,539
needs to be, like I said it's
like it's like expecting the

1179
01:18:03,539 --> 01:18:07,949
podcast index API to only deal
with IP addresses and all the

1180
01:18:08,039 --> 01:18:10,799
the DNS host names have to be
resolved before you send a

1181
01:18:10,799 --> 01:18:15,569
request. Right? It just doesn't
seem like it's a mismatch. And

1182
01:18:15,629 --> 01:18:18,149
Alex is right. You know, he
said, the wallet providers,

1183
01:18:18,689 --> 01:18:21,239
wallet providers can communicate
with the feed hosts when the

1184
01:18:21,239 --> 01:18:26,249
lightning info changes like the
pub key. That's come that there

1185
01:18:26,249 --> 01:18:31,169
again, that's completely the
same it doesn't it that's for

1186
01:18:31,169 --> 01:18:35,249
set for self hosted feeds, like
power press feeds, and those

1187
01:18:35,249 --> 01:18:38,099
kinds of things where you had
this distributed mass of people

1188
01:18:38,099 --> 01:18:41,909
who may have the wrong node ID
listed. That's a problem. You

1189
01:18:41,909 --> 01:18:47,159
know, and I think that's what
prompted Oscar to bring this up

1190
01:18:47,159 --> 01:18:50,129
is because they've been having
to track down podcasters, one at

1191
01:18:50,129 --> 01:18:53,039
a time and had to manually
change their feeds. Right.

1192
01:18:53,039 --> 01:18:58,949
Right. But, you know, there
could be some, you know, maybe

1193
01:18:58,949 --> 01:19:03,269
there's some proposal for a
redirect. You know, I don't know

1194
01:19:03,269 --> 01:19:07,919
where it's like a node node ID
to node ID redirect. I don't

1195
01:19:07,919 --> 01:19:10,949
know, we just, I just, I just
feel like to get if the if they

1196
01:19:10,949 --> 01:19:14,999
want this in and they meaning
that, you know, elbow via

1197
01:19:14,999 --> 01:19:18,479
fountain fountains already got a
handle because their API

1198
01:19:18,479 --> 01:19:21,869
internally they do all these
lookups. Right, like, you know,

1199
01:19:21,869 --> 01:19:25,139
they, it's all internal to them.
So you don't have to they don't,

1200
01:19:25,319 --> 01:19:28,049
it's not going to be a burden on
them. But it is going to be a

1201
01:19:28,049 --> 01:19:31,169
burden on the other 2.0 apps if
they have to do this themselves.

1202
01:19:31,859 --> 01:19:34,469
And I think if Alby can come
back to that to the discussion

1203
01:19:34,469 --> 01:19:38,549
and say, oh, yeah, we'll change
our API, we'll we'll add an

1204
01:19:38,549 --> 01:19:42,419
extra tweak to it so that you
can send an a, like a key send

1205
01:19:42,419 --> 01:19:46,199
address instead of a lightning
node address that I think that

1206
01:19:46,199 --> 01:19:47,849
would solve the whole thing.
We'll just go we'll just go

1207
01:19:47,849 --> 01:19:49,109
ahead and make that change and
be done with

1208
01:19:49,110 --> 01:19:52,110
Adam Curry: it. Okay, well,
balls in their court, then.

1209
01:19:52,530 --> 01:19:57,210
Yeah, they're having me and
let's see Brooklyn 112 As your

1210
01:19:57,210 --> 01:20:02,400
resident conspiracy therapists,
so Hey, brother to help us how

1211
01:20:02,400 --> 01:20:05,580
he is going through a natural
progression. See, Brooklyn's?

1212
01:20:05,580 --> 01:20:09,660
Like, maybe the music spoke to
him. No, no, don't don't I don't

1213
01:20:09,660 --> 01:20:11,550
think you need to look too far
into this.

1214
01:20:12,719 --> 01:20:14,759
Dave Jones: yet. I think you're
right. When when the same thing

1215
01:20:14,759 --> 01:20:17,579
happened with noster Olson, he,
you know, starts getting blasted

1216
01:20:17,579 --> 01:20:21,029
with Chinese spam. Yeah. Once
that stuff starts, man, I mean,

1217
01:20:21,029 --> 01:20:24,899
it's such a bad day. It's just
such crap.

1218
01:20:25,109 --> 01:20:28,019
Adam Curry: And you know, and
exactly. And now that is the,

1219
01:20:28,709 --> 01:20:31,559
you know, I hear Sam Sethi
complaining about the spam

1220
01:20:31,559 --> 01:20:35,369
advertising. A doesn't have a
filter on on Al B, these are all

1221
01:20:35,369 --> 01:20:39,239
the things those guys we're
looking at. I mean, I mean, span

1222
01:20:39,239 --> 01:20:43,289
vertising. Yeah, it may be cute,
but I can see all the problems

1223
01:20:43,289 --> 01:20:43,649
with that.

1224
01:20:43,679 --> 01:20:46,799
Dave Jones: Ah, there's a call.
There's a cost to every

1225
01:20:46,799 --> 01:20:51,299
transaction thing. Yeah. Yeah.
And the other the other thing in

1226
01:20:51,299 --> 01:20:56,699
the namespace was deprecation.
So as of split off, there's now

1227
01:20:56,699 --> 01:21:02,039
a deprecation proposals section
in the discussion forum. So if

1228
01:21:02,039 --> 01:21:05,399
somebody if any, does any
discussion, any talk about

1229
01:21:05,909 --> 01:21:09,389
deprecating a tag or getting rid
of an attribute or anything like

1230
01:21:09,389 --> 01:21:12,209
that? Let's move it all over
there.

1231
01:21:15,180 --> 01:21:18,750
Adam Curry: Ah, this is James's,
get it out of the namespace

1232
01:21:18,750 --> 01:21:19,110
part.

1233
01:21:20,399 --> 01:21:23,939
Dave Jones: Yeah, yes. So we'll
we'll talk about all that. And

1234
01:21:23,939 --> 01:21:27,659
it. I'm cool with him in a
formal deprecation section. That

1235
01:21:27,659 --> 01:21:30,239
way we can talk about because I
mean, there's I'm fine with

1236
01:21:30,239 --> 01:21:35,129
deprecating things but we need
to move price segregate that off

1237
01:21:35,129 --> 01:21:40,109
into its own thing so that we
can because deprecation is flame

1238
01:21:40,109 --> 01:21:41,009
war city.

1239
01:21:41,730 --> 01:21:43,890
Adam Curry: Yeah, that belongs
listen little section of the

1240
01:21:43,890 --> 01:21:45,420
city. Yeah, because

1241
01:21:45,420 --> 01:21:47,610
Dave Jones: everybody's gonna
get pissed at each other. That's

1242
01:21:47,610 --> 01:21:51,120
not that's so let's keep let's
just kind of isolate it.

1243
01:21:51,629 --> 01:21:53,909
Adam Curry: Let me read off a
couple of we got a lot of people

1244
01:21:53,909 --> 01:21:56,909
responding through boosted
grams. We don't even have to

1245
01:21:56,909 --> 01:22:02,009
start the segment here. But let
me just run down the list. See

1246
01:22:02,009 --> 01:22:06,509
Brooklyn 112 with a nice row
ducks brother 22,002 and 22.

1247
01:22:06,509 --> 01:22:09,239
Let's keep this going boys.
Okay, good. So the conspiracy

1248
01:22:09,239 --> 01:22:14,639
therapy worked. net net 30,000
SATs Merry Xmas movie house I

1249
01:22:14,639 --> 01:22:20,579
mean boardroom. There Steven
with 1000 SATs we just read that

1250
01:22:20,579 --> 01:22:24,539
one Sam Sethi has been boosting
all along 10,000 SATs if hosts

1251
01:22:24,539 --> 01:22:28,349
would support alternate
enclosure and video. Then true

1252
01:22:28,349 --> 01:22:31,769
fans would not have to offer
this feature. We could just read

1253
01:22:31,769 --> 01:22:37,169
it from the RSS feed. Well, yes.
Sam. Sam likes doing things

1254
01:22:37,169 --> 01:22:40,619
backwards. Blueberries and
forums video podcasting, but not

1255
01:22:40,619 --> 01:22:44,099
also the enclosure. Does any
host support alternate

1256
01:22:44,099 --> 01:22:52,199
enclosure? Except sovereign fees
has it now. This power press had

1257
01:22:52,439 --> 01:22:57,509
we'll see what Sam is doing is
interesting. I'm not sure I

1258
01:22:57,509 --> 01:23:02,219
agree with this method. But it's
It's fine by me. i What I've

1259
01:23:02,219 --> 01:23:06,389
liked is we come up with an
idea. And then it goes typically

1260
01:23:06,389 --> 01:23:11,189
into the podcasting 2.0 Feed
first, because Steven bells just

1261
01:23:11,189 --> 01:23:15,599
crazy and he builds everything.
And then from there, tags flow

1262
01:23:15,599 --> 01:23:18,329
out and stuff starts to happen.
Now the alternate enclosure is

1263
01:23:18,359 --> 01:23:22,409
already a tag I believe, as had
been a tag or it's not official

1264
01:23:22,409 --> 01:23:24,479
Dave Jones: title yet. No, it's
in there. It's been in there.

1265
01:23:24,509 --> 01:23:25,859
Yep. So Sam likes

1266
01:23:25,860 --> 01:23:28,500
Adam Curry: to give people these
features before they're in the

1267
01:23:28,500 --> 01:23:32,940
feeds. Yes. Which is a way to do
it. Peer

1268
01:23:32,939 --> 01:23:34,559
Dave Jones: tube supports
alternate enclosure.

1269
01:23:35,340 --> 01:23:39,240
Adam Curry: Right. So

1270
01:23:40,229 --> 01:23:41,669
Dave Jones: and disk topia does,

1271
01:23:41,910 --> 01:23:44,520
Adam Curry: so but I can tell
you right now blueberries never

1272
01:23:44,520 --> 01:23:49,290
going to do alternate enclosure.
So just forget it. Todd doesn't

1273
01:23:49,290 --> 01:23:50,760
want to do it. That's his
prerogative.

1274
01:23:50,790 --> 01:23:51,930
Dave Jones: Yeah, he will. He
will

1275
01:23:53,189 --> 01:23:56,729
Adam Curry: know he won't know
he won't. I it's it's his own

1276
01:23:56,729 --> 01:23:57,839
business reasons.

1277
01:23:58,350 --> 01:24:00,390
Dave Jones: It will wear him
down we want.

1278
01:24:01,229 --> 01:24:03,599
Adam Curry: I'm not gonna wear
him down. I'm like, gotta be

1279
01:24:03,599 --> 01:24:04,199
part of that.

1280
01:24:05,850 --> 01:24:07,290
Dave Jones: outtake I'll take
the bait.

1281
01:24:07,409 --> 01:24:09,719
Adam Curry: I mean, I'm, I'm
publishing I'm going to start

1282
01:24:09,719 --> 01:24:11,759
publishing alternate enclosures
for sure.

1283
01:24:12,510 --> 01:24:13,920
Dave Jones: I'm gonna send him
Christmas presents.

1284
01:24:15,359 --> 01:24:17,729
Adam Curry: Send him a stream
deck. It works wonders.

1285
01:24:18,479 --> 01:24:19,019
Dave Jones: No.

1286
01:24:21,930 --> 01:24:24,630
Adam Curry: Well, this is weird
because typically he's the

1287
01:24:24,660 --> 01:24:28,860
delimiter but we got 10,000 SATs
from CSV just 15 minutes ago.

1288
01:24:29,160 --> 01:24:35,820
Marry pod met podcast mess
podcasting. 2.0 Yo, CSB. We got

1289
01:24:36,870 --> 01:24:41,130
another Sam Sethi. 10,000 SATs
is not a video hack is using

1290
01:24:41,130 --> 01:24:44,820
YouTube as a free host next week
we will offer free video hosting

1291
01:24:44,820 --> 01:24:52,740
on on true fans so we will host
directly before IPFS. Well, I

1292
01:24:52,740 --> 01:24:58,140
will say the YouTube stuff is
much easier on a web app than it

1293
01:24:58,140 --> 01:25:03,390
is in a in a native app for
sure, because you can just do an

1294
01:25:03,390 --> 01:25:07,050
iframe or whatever or just or
just embedded I guess the

1295
01:25:07,050 --> 01:25:09,030
embedded tag look

1296
01:25:09,030 --> 01:25:12,180
Dave Jones: Todd said in the
chat for you to pace maybe

1297
01:25:12,180 --> 01:25:14,760
alternate enclosure sees already
cracking Wow

1298
01:25:14,759 --> 01:25:16,769
Adam Curry: take the stream deck
back the cracks

1299
01:25:17,789 --> 01:25:21,149
Dave Jones: the cracks are
already forming Oh, he's a

1300
01:25:21,149 --> 01:25:21,779
pushover I

1301
01:25:21,780 --> 01:25:30,930
Adam Curry: got that was easy
nothing but now are you seeing

1302
01:25:30,930 --> 01:25:34,470
Bagon 1111 Thank you OYSTEIN
Merry Christmas to you phantom

1303
01:25:34,470 --> 01:25:39,960
power. That's from the Phantom
Power Hour. 1000 SATs Dobby Das

1304
01:25:39,960 --> 01:25:44,970
is the bee's knees D and there's
Dobby das with 1000 SATs with

1305
01:25:44,970 --> 01:25:49,140
his says that video worked on
all of the apps 7500 from Dolby

1306
01:25:49,140 --> 01:25:52,200
das download downloads are
really the best podcast metric

1307
01:25:52,200 --> 01:25:55,590
according to Opie three.
Podcasting. 2.0 has a massive

1308
01:25:55,590 --> 01:25:57,750
fan base in Nepal. That's right.

1309
01:25:59,550 --> 01:26:04,170
Dave Jones: We're huge in Nepal.
at base camp, everybody listens

1310
01:26:04,170 --> 01:26:06,630
to us at base camp before they
climb K two as

1311
01:26:06,629 --> 01:26:10,739
Adam Curry: well. We need that
out T shirt. We're big in Nepal.

1312
01:26:12,840 --> 01:26:16,170
Dave Jones: I think we are
literally big in Nepal. Nepalese

1313
01:26:16,170 --> 01:26:17,280
with a very small people.

1314
01:26:18,420 --> 01:26:21,630
Adam Curry: 10,000 SATs from Sam
again evening from the UK true

1315
01:26:21,630 --> 01:26:25,080
fans is now open to all fans and
live congratulations on the land

1316
01:26:25,110 --> 01:26:27,480
and the launches. And we've been
waiting for this for a long

1317
01:26:27,480 --> 01:26:32,010
time. I know you have for sure.
So we'd love that man. Another

1318
01:26:32,010 --> 01:26:34,920
1000 SATs from phantom power.
What's up fellas? Happy Friday,

1319
01:26:34,920 --> 01:26:42,990
then we have oh, okay. This is
Todd with 10,000 SATs. This is

1320
01:26:43,170 --> 01:26:47,730
his analysis of numbers very
simple. And why most hosts stats

1321
01:26:47,760 --> 01:26:51,180
are down. It's largely tied to
two things. Those that count of

1322
01:26:51,180 --> 01:26:54,840
download after 60 seconds of
media delivered and the window

1323
01:26:54,840 --> 01:26:59,490
of time one looks at to qualify
a download. Remember the IAB

1324
01:26:59,490 --> 01:27:02,520
spec and those certified only
have to meet the guidelines and

1325
01:27:02,520 --> 01:27:07,140
not exceed the guidelines. tie
that to Apple 17 changes are the

1326
01:27:07,500 --> 01:27:11,040
two Apple podcasts was a recipe
for decline to those trying to

1327
01:27:11,040 --> 01:27:14,280
extract maximum downloads. Yeah.
Which means it was the whole

1328
01:27:14,280 --> 01:27:17,880
thing is scammy. The whole
industry is CME. Yeah, I gotcha.

1329
01:27:17,940 --> 01:27:22,560
We understand that. metus 5000
SATs is too late to set up a

1330
01:27:22,560 --> 01:27:26,880
boardroom Secret Santa gift
exchange. Oh, well after that

1331
01:27:26,880 --> 01:27:31,290
for next year, I think. Yeah, I
think next year, next year, next

1332
01:27:31,290 --> 01:27:35,610
year. Then we have the 25,000.
From SAS that's from Todd that I

1333
01:27:35,610 --> 01:27:44,760
mentioned. And I think what's
Linkin Park? Park rules 10,000

1334
01:27:44,760 --> 01:27:47,820
SATs have you guys checked out
what pod home has been doing on

1335
01:27:47,820 --> 01:27:51,540
the hosting side? As a customer?
It's been amazing to have access

1336
01:27:51,540 --> 01:27:54,870
to so many tools and tags. We'd
love for them to make an

1337
01:27:54,870 --> 01:27:58,230
appearance on the show by IE.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah,

1338
01:27:58,230 --> 01:27:59,700
definitely. Definitely.

1339
01:28:01,710 --> 01:28:04,680
Dave Jones: A few people I
wanted to my my sort of guests

1340
01:28:04,710 --> 01:28:06,420
booking strategy for

1341
01:28:07,680 --> 01:28:10,380
Adam Curry: which has been
lagging has been

1342
01:28:10,409 --> 01:28:12,959
Dave Jones: a strategy for the
last month and a half has been

1343
01:28:12,959 --> 01:28:13,799
no strategy.

1344
01:28:13,830 --> 01:28:17,520
Adam Curry: Just no go no book,
anybody. I love doing the

1345
01:28:17,520 --> 01:28:20,190
boardroom just the two of us. I
mean, it's nice to have a guest

1346
01:28:20,190 --> 01:28:23,580
on but i i and this is my end of
week therapy brother. I love

1347
01:28:23,580 --> 01:28:24,000
this.

1348
01:28:24,240 --> 01:28:27,540
Dave Jones: We needed we needed
a guest break. We needed his

1349
01:28:27,540 --> 01:28:31,830
brain break and we needed to get
a break. Yes. But my strategy

1350
01:28:31,830 --> 01:28:36,300
coming up is we'll have some
podcast, podcast errs on and

1351
01:28:36,540 --> 01:28:40,620
then also Yeah, for Barry. I'm
at pod home gonna get him on

1352
01:28:40,620 --> 01:28:45,180
Yeah, we get back in the swing
of things. Yeah. I don't like

1353
01:28:45,180 --> 01:28:47,670
having guests on two weeks in a
row. That's No, no,

1354
01:28:47,670 --> 01:28:50,070
Adam Curry: no, no, that's no
good. No good. Yeah.

1355
01:28:52,560 --> 01:28:54,840
Dave Jones: We did. Or we think
of people who want to go into

1356
01:28:54,840 --> 01:28:55,110
that. What

1357
01:28:55,110 --> 01:28:56,850
Adam Curry: did you have
anything else on that? Have we

1358
01:28:56,850 --> 01:28:59,940
tackled all of the things that
we needed to talk about? Not all

1359
01:28:59,940 --> 01:29:02,460
the other thing, what else do
you have on your list? Well,

1360
01:29:02,460 --> 01:29:06,300
Dave Jones: I gotta get. I don't
know if I want to get into that

1361
01:29:06,330 --> 01:29:06,990
necessarily.

1362
01:29:06,989 --> 01:29:08,519
Adam Curry: Tell me what it is
that we're not going to get

1363
01:29:08,519 --> 01:29:09,569
into. So I can remember.

1364
01:29:10,619 --> 01:29:12,269
Dave Jones: It's aggregator
stuff. And

1365
01:29:13,319 --> 01:29:15,239
Adam Curry: I gotta tell you
been wanting to rewrite it,

1366
01:29:15,239 --> 01:29:15,869
haven't you?

1367
01:29:16,949 --> 01:29:19,889
Dave Jones: Yeah, I have but
also sort of read, do the

1368
01:29:19,889 --> 01:29:24,599
structure of it. I have a drawn
out a way I think sort of mapped

1369
01:29:24,599 --> 01:29:27,359
out a way that it can be
decentralized. We can

1370
01:29:27,359 --> 01:29:32,309
decentralize the aggregation.
But it's a big topic. It's too

1371
01:29:32,339 --> 01:29:33,479
we don't have enough time to go
into

1372
01:29:33,479 --> 01:29:35,699
Adam Curry: all this also not
something we start just before

1373
01:29:35,699 --> 01:29:40,889
the holidays. No, no projects
for the holidays as bad ideas.

1374
01:29:41,370 --> 01:29:43,050
Dave Jones: It's like no change
Fridays. Yeah.

1375
01:29:44,970 --> 01:29:46,500
Adam Curry: Exactly. But

1376
01:29:46,680 --> 01:29:50,460
Dave Jones: I guess the other
thing is search improvements.

1377
01:29:51,720 --> 01:30:02,940
And this is this is tied to my
now you know nor nor me. habit

1378
01:30:02,940 --> 01:30:07,620
of listening to the Gilmore
Girls podcast is so this this.

1379
01:30:08,340 --> 01:30:14,010
This podcast is called I am all
in. Do you first of all, as an

1380
01:30:14,010 --> 01:30:16,290
avid Gilmore Girls fan? Do you
get this reference?

1381
01:30:16,829 --> 01:30:20,369
Adam Curry: Yes, I have my own
Gilmore Girls story in a moment.

1382
01:30:21,510 --> 01:30:27,120
Dave Jones: Okay. This, I feel
like I should be drinking a

1383
01:30:27,450 --> 01:30:34,080
grande flat wire from Starbucks
right now. But the so the name

1384
01:30:34,080 --> 01:30:37,200
of this podcast is I am all in.
So if you search for Gilmore

1385
01:30:37,200 --> 01:30:40,200
Girls in the podcast index, you
do not get this podcast back.

1386
01:30:40,440 --> 01:30:46,050
Oh, nothing about this podcast
is findable even though it is an

1387
01:30:46,050 --> 01:30:49,770
official podcast? You know, like
for the show, it's well, that's

1388
01:30:49,770 --> 01:30:55,200
odd. Because it doesn't say
Gilmore Girls anywhere. Any of

1389
01:30:55,200 --> 01:30:57,660
the index indexable things. So
this

1390
01:30:57,660 --> 01:30:59,250
Adam Curry: is a this is a
search problem,

1391
01:30:59,729 --> 01:31:04,859
Dave Jones: search problem. So I
was thinking, we probably need

1392
01:31:04,859 --> 01:31:10,949
to have some way to add in some
extra metadata in the dashboard.

1393
01:31:11,759 --> 01:31:16,079
So that if somebody notices a
problem like this, I really

1394
01:31:16,079 --> 01:31:19,619
wanted to be able to go into the
dashboard, find this podcast,

1395
01:31:19,829 --> 01:31:23,369
and type in a few extra
keywords, Gilmore Girls, or

1396
01:31:23,369 --> 01:31:27,509
whatever. So that now so that
the index can have some more

1397
01:31:27,509 --> 01:31:33,479
data to work with. Okay, that's
all

1398
01:31:36,869 --> 01:31:39,599
Adam Curry: you want? I'm gonna
give you my Gilmore Girls story.

1399
01:31:39,899 --> 01:31:44,219
Yeah, go for this was our COVID
lockdown binge.

1400
01:31:45,210 --> 01:31:46,260
Dave Jones: Now it's a great
binge.

1401
01:31:46,260 --> 01:31:49,770
Adam Curry: So yes, good. I was
on the TV almost all day for no

1402
01:31:49,770 --> 01:31:55,020
agenda. You know, looking at
every single new statement,

1403
01:31:55,020 --> 01:31:58,020
press conference, everything. I
was just obsessed with figuring

1404
01:31:58,020 --> 01:32:02,310
out what was going on. And, but
then at night, we'd watch the

1405
01:32:02,310 --> 01:32:08,550
Gilmore Girls. And somewhere in
August of 2020, there was a no

1406
01:32:08,550 --> 01:32:12,540
agenda meetup in Las Vegas. It
was the super spreader event.

1407
01:32:12,780 --> 01:32:17,100
And by the wait, no one was
sick. No one got sick after this

1408
01:32:17,100 --> 01:32:20,940
event is and so we're there and
there's this guy who had driven

1409
01:32:20,940 --> 01:32:24,480
from LA and I'm talking to him.
And he says, Yeah, I was an

1410
01:32:24,480 --> 01:32:26,760
actor and I got out the
business. I was just sick and

1411
01:32:26,760 --> 01:32:30,270
tired of it. And, you know, I've
been doing I've been been

1412
01:32:30,270 --> 01:32:34,560
coaching people on some stuff
and and I was like this, and

1413
01:32:34,560 --> 01:32:38,220
this maybe 6065 people there.
And I'm just hooking this guy

1414
01:32:38,220 --> 01:32:41,220
and I'm like, you know, said,
Hey, have I seen you in

1415
01:32:41,220 --> 01:32:44,730
anything? He says it's been a
while. I don't know. Maybe not.

1416
01:32:44,730 --> 01:32:47,520
I played Rory. He's dad on
Gilmore Girls.

1417
01:32:48,090 --> 01:32:48,480
Dave Jones: Oh,

1418
01:32:48,479 --> 01:32:51,719
Adam Curry: I'm like way. I
went, oh my god, your worries

1419
01:32:51,719 --> 01:32:58,649
dad. And I started Sandra. He's
dead. As Chris Chris. David

1420
01:32:58,649 --> 01:33:02,399
Sutcliffe is his name. And he
has a podcast. And he actually

1421
01:33:02,399 --> 01:33:06,119
moved to Austin. Not long after
that. So I was it was the

1422
01:33:06,119 --> 01:33:08,819
weirdest thing. I had an actual
moment that many people have

1423
01:33:08,819 --> 01:33:10,679
done to me. I did it to him like

1424
01:33:14,909 --> 01:33:17,399
Dave Jones: this, what is what
is his podcast? What is his

1425
01:33:17,399 --> 01:33:18,269
name? Crazy. But

1426
01:33:18,270 --> 01:33:21,540
Adam Curry: David David
Sutcliffe. David Sutcliffe?

1427
01:33:22,649 --> 01:33:24,959
Dave Jones: Search and index
fund is yeah,

1428
01:33:25,590 --> 01:33:28,530
Adam Curry: this psycho sphere.
Yeah, that sounds about right.

1429
01:33:28,770 --> 01:33:30,990
Yeah. David Sutcliffe?

1430
01:33:31,289 --> 01:33:34,889
Dave Jones: Oh, it's current to
he's doing it. Yeah. Return of

1431
01:33:34,889 --> 01:33:36,959
the Jew is the name of one of
his episodes.

1432
01:33:37,260 --> 01:33:41,460
Adam Curry: He's pretty cool,
man. He's got a shot. He's not

1433
01:33:41,460 --> 01:33:43,770
value for value, though. We
should get him on value.

1434
01:33:43,950 --> 01:33:46,020
Dave Jones: He's not acting
anymore. He now he's just he's,

1435
01:33:46,110 --> 01:33:48,060
he's in the podcast industrial
complex.

1436
01:33:48,180 --> 01:33:54,900
Adam Curry: He actually he does.
What is the what is the term?

1437
01:33:56,880 --> 01:34:00,180
likes he does sessions with
multiple people, mainly women, I

1438
01:34:00,180 --> 01:34:03,090
think and they, you know, they
do weekends and retreats and

1439
01:34:03,090 --> 01:34:06,090
they talk about their feelings.
And

1440
01:34:07,439 --> 01:34:10,739
Dave Jones: does it my job is I
do weekend retreats with women.

1441
01:34:12,600 --> 01:34:16,050
Adam Curry: I'm not saying it.
Right. Like workshops, you know,

1442
01:34:16,650 --> 01:34:20,760
for for mental workshops and
stuff. He's He's certified the

1443
01:34:20,760 --> 01:34:22,020
stuff he really got into that.

1444
01:34:22,650 --> 01:34:24,270
Dave Jones: Oh, cool. Okay,
Nate. I'll

1445
01:34:24,270 --> 01:34:26,010
Adam Curry: check it out. Yeah,
now he's cool. He's a cool,

1446
01:34:26,010 --> 01:34:27,120
dude. He's cool, dude.

1447
01:34:27,929 --> 01:34:31,049
Dave Jones: That's all this was.
Thanks. Some people. Yes. Okay.

1448
01:34:33,420 --> 01:34:38,040
Adam Curry: I had one more that
came in, actually to Carolyn

1449
01:34:38,040 --> 01:34:41,550
12,000 SATs. Merry Christmas.
Adam and Dave love to see video

1450
01:34:41,550 --> 01:34:45,240
on pod verse. It's so cool. It
is very cool. And Mike Newman

1451
01:34:45,270 --> 01:34:50,040
17,910 Big ups for the whole
crew starting with musicians for

1452
01:34:50,040 --> 01:34:53,820
the innovation fueled by next
week's concerts. The response to

1453
01:34:53,820 --> 01:34:56,550
updating the podcast index
features for apps has been

1454
01:34:56,550 --> 01:34:59,790
really great. We point people to
that it needs to show the

1455
01:34:59,790 --> 01:35:03,960
current capabilities much better
now go podcasting. Was you mean

1456
01:35:03,960 --> 01:35:07,710
that the response updating PIs
features for apps? Not quite

1457
01:35:07,710 --> 01:35:08,850
sure what he means by that?

1458
01:35:09,090 --> 01:35:11,760
Dave Jones: Is that how quickly
I deploy things to the website.

1459
01:35:11,760 --> 01:35:14,340
I think that's what he means.
I've been trying to be faster

1460
01:35:14,340 --> 01:35:17,610
about that what I had been doing
in the past was waiting is sort

1461
01:35:17,610 --> 01:35:21,030
of batching them all up to date
and then pushing them out every

1462
01:35:21,030 --> 01:35:21,180
day

1463
01:35:21,210 --> 01:35:22,410
Adam Curry: all you know, all in
one go.

1464
01:35:23,579 --> 01:35:25,439
Dave Jones: But people are
adding stuff fast now. So I'm

1465
01:35:25,439 --> 01:35:29,639
trying to to be be quicker. But
once you know, as soon as I see

1466
01:35:29,639 --> 01:35:31,499
a couple of pull requests, I'm
trying to push it immediately.

1467
01:35:31,530 --> 01:35:34,500
Adam Curry: And right at the
end, here, right on the cusp.

1468
01:35:34,500 --> 01:35:41,790
45,678 45678 Dred Scott Merry
Christmas to Bruce waited for

1469
01:35:41,790 --> 01:35:44,250
our podcast in 2.0. Thank you,
brother with a nice little

1470
01:35:44,250 --> 01:35:47,700
Christmas tree and present
emoji. Thank you. No,

1471
01:35:47,699 --> 01:35:51,659
Dave Jones: thanks, Jared. Get
we got some pay pals we get?

1472
01:35:53,129 --> 01:35:56,969
Bigger the devil Todd and the
boys of blueberry and the girls

1473
01:35:56,969 --> 01:35:59,819
at blueberry $300. Wow.

1474
01:36:00,510 --> 01:36:05,340
Adam Curry: Sakala blades on am
Paula. I just like to remind

1475
01:36:05,340 --> 01:36:08,280
everybody that when he talked
about the value for value model,

1476
01:36:08,400 --> 01:36:12,990
this is all this is what we do.
We started this from zero over

1477
01:36:12,990 --> 01:36:17,460
three years ago, and we said it
has to be valued for value and

1478
01:36:17,880 --> 01:36:20,400
be heard on numbers. We don't
even make the cut for

1479
01:36:20,400 --> 01:36:25,890
advertising. Yeah. But you know,
we have a project that goes

1480
01:36:25,890 --> 01:36:28,980
along with this. And so it's not
just the podcast, it's the whole

1481
01:36:28,980 --> 01:36:33,150
project. And people are
supporting it and this is exact

1482
01:36:33,150 --> 01:36:37,290
this is the the exact model and
it's a beautiful mix of Fiat fun

1483
01:36:37,290 --> 01:36:42,540
coupons. Pay Pal and and
Satoshis and booster grams. The

1484
01:36:42,540 --> 01:36:45,510
feedback loop is apparent we are
eating our own dog food here,

1485
01:36:45,510 --> 01:36:49,620
people it really does work. And
it's not because some old ex

1486
01:36:49,620 --> 01:36:54,060
Vijay had some kind of name for
himself, believe me. It's not

1487
01:36:54,060 --> 01:36:57,330
it's not it. In fact, a lot of
people were like, What are these

1488
01:36:57,330 --> 01:37:03,750
nut jobs doing? Free speech?
crypto. That's how it started.

1489
01:37:04,590 --> 01:37:05,130
Yeah,

1490
01:37:05,400 --> 01:37:11,640
Dave Jones: yeah. You know, Leo,
are you going to do 2.0? No. Oh,

1491
01:37:11,640 --> 01:37:12,870
yeah. But not doing that crap.

1492
01:37:12,899 --> 01:37:17,849
Adam Curry: Now. Now he's. Now
he's trying to do twit. Twit

1493
01:37:17,849 --> 01:37:24,329
Club was $7 a month, man open it
up. To let a little Yep. Take it

1494
01:37:24,329 --> 01:37:28,679
take the lid off. Let people
support you however they want to

1495
01:37:28,709 --> 01:37:31,619
with whatever amount that's
that's your saving grace

1496
01:37:31,619 --> 01:37:33,509
brother. That's the way to go.

1497
01:37:33,990 --> 01:37:37,020
Dave Jones: You know, I told you
I told the guys at ATP. Take

1498
01:37:37,050 --> 01:37:41,700
Take the lid off. And and take
the cap off your monthly

1499
01:37:41,760 --> 01:37:44,670
membership. And they did. Oh,
and now you can give them as

1500
01:37:44,670 --> 01:37:48,840
much as you want. Oh, excellent.
Yeah. Twit needs to do the same

1501
01:37:48,840 --> 01:37:52,350
thing. Take take the cap off.
It's not official and it's

1502
01:37:52,350 --> 01:37:52,950
weird.

1503
01:37:54,210 --> 01:37:57,000
Adam Curry: It's weird. Like no,
don't send me more money. No,

1504
01:37:57,030 --> 01:37:57,840
no.

1505
01:37:58,080 --> 01:38:02,940
Dave Jones: Yes. Thank you. Is
eaten taught and the team at

1506
01:38:02,940 --> 01:38:06,000
blueberry? Merry Christmas for
the blueberry team. Dave time to

1507
01:38:06,000 --> 01:38:09,270
get busy on the namespace. Happy
podcasting? Yes. We get busy

1508
01:38:09,270 --> 01:38:10,200
that we

1509
01:38:10,200 --> 01:38:12,300
Adam Curry: had the namespace
hot talk today Christmas

1510
01:38:12,300 --> 01:38:14,190
version. That to get busy.

1511
01:38:15,210 --> 01:38:20,040
Dave Jones: Okay, so we got out
we got another Oh, we this is

1512
01:38:20,040 --> 01:38:24,360
from another word from Todd $50.
From New Media Productions. Hey,

1513
01:38:24,360 --> 01:38:27,990
Adam and Dave Todd here, had my
main podcast into OneNote dev at

1514
01:38:27,990 --> 01:38:30,990
a conference this week. And he
will be back Monday to fix the

1515
01:38:31,470 --> 01:38:34,500
value time split bugs we found
in final testing. So fingers

1516
01:38:34,500 --> 01:38:37,530
crossed on VTS for next week.
All right. Nice. Thank

1517
01:38:37,530 --> 01:38:39,420
Adam Curry: you. Thank you.
Thank you. So good. As good

1518
01:38:39,420 --> 01:38:41,220
knows we love that. Yes.

1519
01:38:41,940 --> 01:38:44,940
Dave Jones: Thank you, Todd and
the team at blueberry and Lina

1520
01:38:44,940 --> 01:38:49,800
also very active over there.
Thank you to her. We get up in

1521
01:38:49,800 --> 01:38:55,020
1984 4000 SATs from fountains is
just for clarification, or just

1522
01:38:55,020 --> 01:38:57,720
a clarification my blogpost
about set based advertising did

1523
01:38:57,720 --> 01:39:00,990
not involve paying listeners. It
was just an idea for how

1524
01:39:00,990 --> 01:39:05,280
advertisers could buy ad space
on podcast using SATs in a way

1525
01:39:05,280 --> 01:39:07,380
that would give the hosts
control over the ads on their

1526
01:39:07,380 --> 01:39:10,560
content. Sorry for not making
that clear in my previous

1527
01:39:10,560 --> 01:39:11,070
message.

1528
01:39:11,819 --> 01:39:13,589
Adam Curry: No, that's cool.
Yeah,

1529
01:39:13,980 --> 01:39:17,280
Dave Jones: no apologies
required no bad career advice.

1530
01:39:17,280 --> 01:39:21,000
Chad central Richard 1111
through fountain career.

1531
01:39:22,740 --> 01:39:27,240
Podcasting 2.0 podcast poll. Is
Spotify a centralized pile of

1532
01:39:27,240 --> 01:39:35,310
music industry insider turd like
for yes reply for no. Oh,

1533
01:39:35,490 --> 01:39:37,830
another bad career advice chat
and other sensitive Richard's

1534
01:39:37,830 --> 01:39:40,080
through fancy says I think one
of the challenges of adoption of

1535
01:39:40,080 --> 01:39:42,450
the boosting ecosystem is the
fact that people have to think

1536
01:39:42,450 --> 01:39:47,130
about things in terms of wallets
and transfers and Satoshis. It

1537
01:39:47,130 --> 01:39:49,590
would be cool if River and
fountain could partner up to

1538
01:39:49,590 --> 01:39:53,520
have automatic Bitcoin bys where
it funds both a cold wallet and

1539
01:39:53,520 --> 01:39:56,400
a lightning wallet at the same
time. That way people have some

1540
01:39:56,400 --> 01:39:59,970
spending money, but also putting
saps away in their long term pay

1541
01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:00,510
The Bank

1542
01:40:00,630 --> 01:40:04,110
Adam Curry: yeah there's there's
problems as money changer

1543
01:40:04,110 --> 01:40:08,070
transmitter problems. It's more
the legality of it all then then

1544
01:40:08,070 --> 01:40:10,800
the technical issues. I'm pretty
sure that's what's going on

1545
01:40:10,800 --> 01:40:11,910
there. You

1546
01:40:11,910 --> 01:40:15,390
Dave Jones: know, the big the
big player in this in this whole

1547
01:40:15,390 --> 01:40:19,110
thing that is sort of missing
from this all together a strike.

1548
01:40:20,040 --> 01:40:25,440
Yeah, yeah, strike could do
this. I feel like could do this

1549
01:40:25,440 --> 01:40:26,010
quickly.

1550
01:40:26,730 --> 01:40:31,380
Adam Curry: You know who I saw a
Channel show up. BTC swan has a

1551
01:40:31,380 --> 01:40:32,970
channel channel with the index.

1552
01:40:33,810 --> 01:40:36,000
Dave Jones: Swan. Swan Bitcoin.
Yes. Change?

1553
01:40:36,030 --> 01:40:39,960
Adam Curry: Yeah. So things are
moving. You're planning? Well, I

1554
01:40:39,960 --> 01:40:43,020
don't know. But there's plenty
of opportunity. As you said,

1555
01:40:43,020 --> 01:40:46,980
there's so much opportunity to
offer services into these apps.

1556
01:40:47,400 --> 01:40:50,310
And the apps just have a little
a little button. There's

1557
01:40:50,310 --> 01:40:53,490
opportunity, and it'll come it's
all going to come. That's all

1558
01:40:53,490 --> 01:40:54,330
they will they will

1559
01:40:54,929 --> 01:40:56,519
Dave Jones: SLS SLC

1560
01:40:57,600 --> 01:41:00,720
Adam Curry: SLC SLC SLC. Yeah,
SLC

1561
01:41:00,989 --> 01:41:04,769
Dave Jones: 12345 sets through
fountain This is what are some

1562
01:41:04,769 --> 01:41:08,309
reasons that of 2.0 app would
prevent listener listening or

1563
01:41:08,309 --> 01:41:11,339
downloading while on a VPN? This
happened to me less than a year

1564
01:41:11,339 --> 01:41:15,449
ago, I tried all VPN protocols
and options, no dice. I even got

1565
01:41:15,449 --> 01:41:18,869
confirmation for the 2.0 def
team, that this was on their

1566
01:41:18,869 --> 01:41:22,739
end, but said they wouldn't
share why they were doing it for

1567
01:41:22,739 --> 01:41:23,699
security route. What

1568
01:41:23,790 --> 01:41:26,490
Adam Curry: what Deb Tino did is
that you?

1569
01:41:28,350 --> 01:41:29,940
Dave Jones: I'm not a team. It

1570
01:41:29,939 --> 01:41:33,449
Adam Curry: all depends on your,
on your VPN. I mean, that's,

1571
01:41:33,479 --> 01:41:37,379
that's it, the VPN is going to
determine what what can come

1572
01:41:37,379 --> 01:41:38,159
through or not.

1573
01:41:39,390 --> 01:41:42,030
Dave Jones: Don't tell us what
app it is. Yeah, that way we

1574
01:41:42,030 --> 01:41:46,770
could get there was a another
one. Another was an issue for a

1575
01:41:46,770 --> 01:41:50,550
while with IPFS. over VPN. Yeah,
that was the gateways were

1576
01:41:50,550 --> 01:41:50,970
blocking.

1577
01:41:51,060 --> 01:41:56,910
Adam Curry: Yes, yes. Well, IPFS
so funny. ipfs.io In general,

1578
01:41:57,180 --> 01:42:01,020
you know, very often now I see a
spam email come through and

1579
01:42:01,020 --> 01:42:04,140
I'll, you know, I'll hover the
link. I'm like, Oh, okay. It's

1580
01:42:04,140 --> 01:42:07,290
gonna download something from
ipfs.io. Yeah, no wonder those

1581
01:42:07,290 --> 01:42:12,270
guys got killed off by about a
lot of spam, spam bots or

1582
01:42:12,420 --> 01:42:14,100
speaking, firewalls.

1583
01:42:15,239 --> 01:42:17,579
Dave Jones: Speaking of blocking
things, did you see where

1584
01:42:17,969 --> 01:42:22,139
threads started federating with
the fediverse and then

1585
01:42:22,139 --> 01:42:25,019
immediately blocked noster. No,

1586
01:42:26,130 --> 01:42:29,310
Adam Curry: wait, it? What is
Nasir on the fediverse? What do

1587
01:42:29,310 --> 01:42:30,180
you mean? Yeah, it's

1588
01:42:30,180 --> 01:42:33,150
Dave Jones: the, you know, the
bridge the most or bridge? Oh,

1589
01:42:33,150 --> 01:42:37,290
really? Yes, threads, threads
started federating. And then

1590
01:42:37,290 --> 01:42:40,290
immediately blocked the nostril
bridge communication.

1591
01:42:40,769 --> 01:42:43,859
Adam Curry: I have this weird
observation. Because I've been

1592
01:42:43,859 --> 01:42:48,419
studying social media for of
course, from the first day when

1593
01:42:48,419 --> 01:42:52,439
Twitter launched as Twitter and
our micro blogging platform

1594
01:42:52,439 --> 01:42:57,299
instead of a podcast company.
And six years ago, I started no

1595
01:42:57,299 --> 01:43:02,549
agenda social.com the mastodon
site about 656 years ago.

1596
01:43:04,589 --> 01:43:12,329
Without like, a proto person,
like MySpace, arguably a social

1597
01:43:12,329 --> 01:43:12,749
network,

1598
01:43:12,749 --> 01:43:14,879
Dave Jones: Moto person, that's
a great term.

1599
01:43:14,940 --> 01:43:21,060
Adam Curry: Everybody had Tom as
their friend. Remember? Do you

1600
01:43:21,060 --> 01:43:23,970
remember that? The guy who
started MySpace and name was

1601
01:43:23,970 --> 01:43:27,450
Tom. So when you started a
MySpace account, you had Tom

1602
01:43:27,510 --> 01:43:32,250
that was your first friend.
Okay. And with face bag.

1603
01:43:33,180 --> 01:43:36,960
Zuckerberg was kind of a big guy
on there in the beginning, of

1604
01:43:36,960 --> 01:43:41,910
course, we had ever had and
later Jack Dorsey with Twitter.

1605
01:43:43,020 --> 01:43:48,540
And now Elon Musk and with
threads you know, Zuckerberg

1606
01:43:48,540 --> 01:43:52,800
hasn't posted in a month and not
even see it on no agenda. I've

1607
01:43:52,800 --> 01:43:57,240
stopped posting no agenda social
because it's it's a crap hit. Me

1608
01:43:57,240 --> 01:43:57,390
Oh,

1609
01:43:57,420 --> 01:44:00,780
Dave Jones: you're the Tom have
no agenda. Social. Yes. And

1610
01:44:00,900 --> 01:44:07,410
Adam Curry: I think what happens
is when there's no no singular,

1611
01:44:07,620 --> 01:44:10,620
or it can be it doesn't have to
be one but one or two persons of

1612
01:44:10,620 --> 01:44:16,350
authority who you know, has some
power to kick you off. I think

1613
01:44:16,350 --> 01:44:24,390
people just lose lose all sense
of decorum. And it just becomes

1614
01:44:24,510 --> 01:44:29,850
just it becomes crappy. And and
there's something about the

1615
01:44:29,850 --> 01:44:34,980
proto person of a social network
that has to be there. And you

1616
01:44:34,980 --> 01:44:37,710
know, and Jack was that for
Nasr, but I feel that Jack has

1617
01:44:37,710 --> 01:44:41,970
pulled back Yeah, which means he
hasn't given anybody any more

1618
01:44:41,970 --> 01:44:46,290
money. And I think it's that
that's you know, there's there's

1619
01:44:46,290 --> 01:44:49,530
no person but Oh, yeah. Oh,
Jack, he follows me. He tagged

1620
01:44:49,530 --> 01:44:53,610
me Jack, Jack Jack. And I think
that is it's somehow it's

1621
01:44:53,610 --> 01:44:56,280
critical to survival of social
networks.

1622
01:44:56,849 --> 01:44:58,979
Dave Jones: Yeah, there's when
there's no adult in the room.

1623
01:44:59,309 --> 01:45:03,329
Yeah. Yes. When there's no adult
in the room Yeah, exactly,

1624
01:45:03,329 --> 01:45:05,999
buddy, everybody. Everybody goes
feral. Yeah,

1625
01:45:06,030 --> 01:45:09,570
Adam Curry: yes, exactly. And I
think that threads suffers from

1626
01:45:09,570 --> 01:45:13,500
that and that's not Instagram is
not true. And Tik Tok is not

1627
01:45:13,500 --> 01:45:16,860
true. Those are outliers for
some reason. Well,

1628
01:45:16,859 --> 01:45:17,939
Dave Jones: they were fair
already.

1629
01:45:18,569 --> 01:45:22,199
Adam Curry: They started off
Farrell. Right. Yeah, exactly.

1630
01:45:22,229 --> 01:45:25,619
Anyway, I've just observation.
Yeah, that's

1631
01:45:25,620 --> 01:45:31,230
Dave Jones: that's this feel it
feels very true. Say 20 220 2220

1632
01:45:31,230 --> 01:45:34,470
vagaro. Doug's from Dave
Jackson. Thank you, Dave. Do

1633
01:45:34,470 --> 01:45:36,990
cast medic he says a great
episode that left me no choice

1634
01:45:36,990 --> 01:45:40,950
but to boost and share. Right
you didn't know you were forced

1635
01:45:41,520 --> 01:45:44,820
to graduate by the IRS 1776.
Through fountain he says I still

1636
01:45:44,820 --> 01:45:47,850
prefer z. This is just
listening. He said I still

1637
01:45:47,850 --> 01:45:51,330
prefer chapters and boost to be
separate. I use the chapters tab

1638
01:45:51,330 --> 01:45:55,230
and found unlike a content index
tab, in the Activity tab to

1639
01:45:55,230 --> 01:45:58,260
check out boosts almost like the
comment section with boosts and

1640
01:45:58,260 --> 01:46:01,470
chapters. It gets cluttered.
Anyhow, not complaining. And I

1641
01:46:01,470 --> 01:46:04,770
guess that's up to apps. Hey,
looking forward to AngelList

1642
01:46:04,770 --> 01:46:05,820
concert. Yes,

1643
01:46:05,820 --> 01:46:09,990
Adam Curry: and I keep
publishing this same way through

1644
01:46:09,990 --> 01:46:14,970
the through Spurlock's
interface. And I know pod verse

1645
01:46:14,970 --> 01:46:19,350
has implemented a switch. And
I'm not sure about other apps,

1646
01:46:19,350 --> 01:46:22,380
but I'm really only doing it for
people to integrate the switch.

1647
01:46:22,890 --> 01:46:25,590
Because believe me, I get I get
I from time to time I get a

1648
01:46:25,590 --> 01:46:30,660
really angry email about it. And
I keep saying, you know, that

1649
01:46:30,660 --> 01:46:34,950
should be an app theme because
I'm publishing those as those

1650
01:46:35,640 --> 01:46:38,790
TOC equals false so they should
not be in your end.