Adam Curry: Podcasting 2.0 for September 27 2024 episode 195,
Grant pipe, hello everybody. Welcome once again to podcasting
2.0 when it's podcasting 2.0 you know, it's a Friday, usually it
is time once again to talk about podcasting. Everything going on,
the past, the present, and, of course, the future. This is the
boardroom, and we are the only boardroom that doesn't shut down
companies we acquire. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the
Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, the man who ensures we
will never succumb to entropy. Say hello to my friend on the
other end, Mr. Dave Jones,
Dave Jones: the next company we acquire will be the first
company that we acquire. I wonder if any company out there,
the only way we could acquire a company is if they would take
like stock, like credit, credit.
Adam Curry: Do you take credit? Visa debit,
Dave Jones: like Zelensky, like crazy.
Adam Curry: I just want some credit, man, just give me some
credit for some bumps. Yeah, yes, yeah. All right, everybody,
it is time once again for the board meeting. I am ready. I'm
very excited, excited to talk to you. We never talk Dave and I
only talk on Fridays. Pretty much, pretty much, sometimes,
yes, sometimes a weekly call. But how
Dave Jones: you doing the last couple of weeks have been we've
had a bunch of calls with people.
Adam Curry: Oh, man, we don't like it. I don't, I don't like
it meetings.
Dave Jones: I mean, like meetings,
Adam Curry: I know. I know, I know. Well, we had, we had our
follow up meeting with clicks, clicks, yes, yeah, C, l, i, x,
yeah. Those guys might be the first company we've had a
meeting with. They might actually integrate something.
What do you think? Yeah,
Dave Jones: I think so. And they so they were not that was a nice
meeting, because we talked about some things for what about 2025
minutes, and then their, I don't know your CEO president, whoever
was, was like, Yeah,
Adam Curry: I think he's the CEO CEO. He
Dave Jones: was like, All right, I think we got some good stuff
done. So about 25 minutes, let's get, let's, let's all get off
this call. Okay,
Adam Curry: that was the same call I had the last time. It's
like, 30 minutes. Like, the only guys I think I've ever talked to
that schedule 30 minutes and do 30 minutes. I
Dave Jones: mean, it was not a minute over 30. And I was like,
Yes,
Unknown: great. Couldn't be happier to get off that call.
Yeah,
Dave Jones: Ashley was, was just thinking about some stuff, and
then he's like, All right, time,
Adam Curry: don't worry, Dave. Everybody saw you drifting off
like, Oh, we're losing Dave, time to end the meeting. He's
the mic. Time to end the meeting. Oh, man,
Dave Jones: I heard you on the new media show.
Adam Curry: I had a good time on the new media. Yeah. Well, it
was so Rob had pinged me a couple weeks ago. He says, hey.
Man, hey. Man, Rob talks just like, hey, man, do you want to
be on the the board of advisors for the Rio, for the rock world,
the podcasting Hall of Fame? I'm like, no, no,
Dave Jones: you would not in a million years. Would you ever
Adam Curry: do that? No, well, also, you know, you and I, we
made our own little pact a long time ago. We're not going to be
advisors. We're not going to take stock from anybody. We're
just going to be completely independent. Therefore, we're
clean, baby. We're like, we're like, Virgin snow, we are clean.
I said, I can't be a part of some. It always becomes
political, those things. And by the way, you know, outside of
the very first award shows, and I can see the Hall of Fame, I
mean, there's, there's a number of people who, if you want to
have a Hall of Fame, probably belong there, but it's like the
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I used to go to those dinners in
New York. Was $1,000 a plate at the Waldorf. It would be, you'd
have Phil Spector, you'd have Mick Jagger, you'd have the
kinks, you know, just everyone dressed in tuxedos eating rubber
chicken. Big jam at the end, with Paul Schaefer in the
world's most dangerous band. And everybody would get up, get up
on stage, and then, you know, a couple years later, it's like a
three hour MTV special with Abba being inducted into the Rock and
Roll Hall of Fame. It's like, no, that's what always happens.
You know, rock and roll started at a certain point, and you
know, you can only put so many people in who were there at the
very beginning, and it's just no. And then rob comes back. He
says, Hey, man, well then I understood. Would you like to be
on the new media show? That was your consolation prize. That was
second prize. You get to talk for an hour and a half on the
new media show. What did you hear? The whole thing?
Dave Jones: Yeah, I'm about two thirds through it right now.
It's a good show. I like it.
Adam Curry: Yeah, I actually, I think the rodecaster was
crackling. I'm not sure I didn't hear it. No, that's correct. I
listened critically, and I'm like, I rebooted it right away.
You're
Dave Jones: too critical of your own audio. You're you. You
always have a pro some problem with your audio when nobody else
can really, can you
Adam Curry: ever be too critical of the audio? Though? Can you
ever really be too
Dave Jones: Yes, you can't. Yes, you can. Yeah, you can. Have you
heard some of these podcasts? Yeah, yes, you can be too
critical of your audio. Although I tell everybody, like, if you
compare yourself, I mean, if you compare your there's a certain
level, your audio is just completely acceptable, like,
it's just more than adequate, yeah, but compared to it's like,
the 20% rule or whatever, compared to the other 80% of
everything out there, it's like, yeah, a relief to hear your
show.
Adam Curry: Well, I always like it when I hear people saying
that I've ruined other podcasts for them, but I always take
great pride in that, like, I can't listen to these other
podcasts. You've Rowan debt. Yeah, I totally agree. But
luckily, and I will say this, even though I'm not a fan of it,
but I think it's good that many podcast apps have some kind of
processing in it, you know, so that you can, you know, equalize
the levels a little bit and make it sound better, which is, to be
fair, it's what we had on our stereos, our towers. Back in the
day, we had treble and bass, you know. And if
Dave Jones: you're Neff said, if you want bad audio, listen to a
Bitcoin podcast, that
Adam Curry: is definitely true. I got a sweet email from this
guy. He's in Austin, actually, and he's doing a sports podcast
video, and it's four guys, and I'm like, whole, and he's like,
you know, and he gave me his gear. Let's say, could you
please help me? Trey is his name. Can you please help me? I
can't get it to sound right, and I tune into this thing. This got
like, four different mics. He's running a Mackie board, and only
two have compressors on them. So one mic is, like, totally,
completely over modulated. The other guys, the other guys are
coming in through that mic. I'm like, Man, do you have a budget?
Because we got to get you something else. And actually, I
said, if you got two, she said, Why should I get the rodecaster
Pro? Like, you know, it's a little overkill for what you're
doing, but for the same cost, you could get two audio sigma
pod mobiles. They will solve your problems. I've been hearing
people use the pod mobile and man, especially in a boomy room
or a kind of a rough environment, it really, really
does the business. I am so proud of Fernando.
Dave Jones: Would you say now, would you go as far as to say
that the audio quality you get out of the out of those are
better than the road cast?
Adam Curry: Yes, yes, wow. The microphone processing, yeah, and
it's simple. It's simpler. You have a lot now that I can't
really use it, because I have to be able to process Dvorak, or
you coming back in, and it doesn't allow it doesn't have
that
Unknown: functionality. It doesn't have the extra audio
interface. It does have the
Adam Curry: extra audio interface, but there's no
processing on it, so And honestly, you know, most people
won't want to do that for interview situations. It works
just fine. And maybe in a future version you can put that in, but
it doesn't matter. I mean, for just two people doing a podcast,
or if you connect two of them together, because you can link
them, you can do four people. I mean, I would go with that time
after time and I and even though I was tempted, I will not be
buying the rodecaster. Video,
Dave Jones: well, you were tempted for that, wow, from
Adam Curry: a gear perspective, yeah, just because the gear, the
gear
Dave Jones: flood and you wanted it, yeah, because it
Adam Curry: came out, I immediately got the manual and
read it in bed, and I'm reading like, Oh, man. I was like, if,
if I were to build this, this is exactly what I would build. It's
Dave Jones: things you read in bed, yes, not wearing the things
I thought of.
Adam Curry: It's very high on my list. I'm zooming in on
diagrams. Like, okay, so this is how that works. I thought, you
know, well maybe. And then I'm like, What am I doing? I'm
getting sucked in. Go to sleep. Then I just know, oh, I'm about
to get cameras and lights. And what am I thinking? No, no, no,
no. That's like I could do the no agenda. Oh, but not to do
clips, not to do video. No, no. It's just not worth it. Although
the gear itself is nice. I mean, it's a nice piece of kit, and I
don't think 1199 is too much for what they're offering. Oh,
Dave Jones: no, I'm sure that that seems I mean, in that
market, when you get in the video market, everything gets so
much more expensive anyway, yeah. I mean, I guess they're
probably going up against things like the Tricaster and stuff,
yeah,
Adam Curry: oh, they'll, they blow all of that out of the
water. I mean, I haven't kept up with everything, but we're far,
far from the days of the. You got Video Toaster, my friend,
Dave Jones: remember that? I mean, yeah, oh, yeah. Video is
all great until you forget that your camera's on and you pick
your nose then, then
Adam Curry: there's that. Now, I love, I love audio so much I
really do. It's, it's the best, it's the easiest, you know. So
anyway, that's all. We had a good time on the new media show.
I thought we had some good chats about about podcasting 2.0 and,
you know, I did my little spiel about value for value and told
people that about the no agenda show, which will be celebrating
1700 episodes next Thursday, and 17 years, 17 years, and we never
had a fight in October, october 26 I think 17 years.
Dave Jones: That's how so one thing you said during it was fun
to hear you kind of go over some of the the history of no agenda,
I think I started listening to no agenda. It was early. It was
maybe, it was in the hundreds. It was maybe episode. Oh, really
that early, huh? Yeah, very early. It was maybe, maybe 150
Adam Curry: How did you find, how did you Oh, we already knew
each other, I guess, through, through the Weiner projects.
Dave Jones: Yeah, well, when the Weiner project started, I had
already, I think I became a listener, and then immediately
dove into the Weiner project. So it was, I think that's roughly
with like that was those were concomitant with each other. I
think it was in the it was in the hundreds somewhere. But I
think, I think I came over from, from one of the Twitch shows
just because
Adam Curry: of war act. Yeah, that tweet is on its last legs.
Man, no, it's, it's on its last legs.
Dave Jones: I was there for a lot of the history of it. When,
when did you move to LA?
Unknown: Myself, not
Dave Jones: LA, my second wife,
Adam Curry: first for time frame, yes, first wife, second
wife. Okay,
Dave Jones: it was around that time. Oh, well, let's
Adam Curry: see, I moved to LA in 2008 No, 2000 Yeah. In that
time frame, 2000 Yeah. It must have been in the hundreds, 2008
when people were sending me free bitcoin
Unknown: and saying, This has a future. Adam,
Dave Jones: I had been I'd been listening for a while. I'd been
listening for a while already, and by the time the episode hit,
where you were interviewed about Michael Jackson on like C CBS or
something
Adam Curry: CNBC, that was legend. That was legendary.
Dave Jones: I don't remember what whatever year that was.
I've been listening for about a year at that point.
Adam Curry: Let me see, I think I have. I it was, let me see,
oh, this is actually, have that clip. You want to hear that
clip? Yeah, it was cut you off, right? Yeah. Does Michael
Jackson die? Yes. Then it hung up on me. Michael Jackson died,
and they called me for some unknown reason, like, oh, let's
get that MTV guy on. I mean, there seems to be an insatiable
appetite for this. Yes, absolutely.
Unknown: And I'm amazed you're showing the footage, and
everyone seems to be showing the footage of these rehearsals just
two days before. Here's a guy who clearly was in great
physical shape. He had 3040, concerts coming up in the o2
Arena in London. That's a huge production. You have to be
preparing yourself a year in advance, at least physically.
You can't put on a show like that without an enormous
insurance coverage, which includes a tremendous amount of
physical testing. So I'm amazed at what happened that I know
that there's breaking news about some form of medicinal drugs
that were found in his home. I'm quite like family that no one is
looking at a murder angle on this.
Well, we shall see.
Dave Jones: Get rid of me. Yeah, you were dressed. They just is
like, cut.
Adam Curry: We're done. Yeah, I can't believe you said that.
This man's horrible. We'll never have him back on again.
Dave Jones: Yeah, and you said that, and then people went to
jail a few months
Adam Curry: later for killing him exactly. Man, yeah, you know
it was
Dave Jones: good to hear you go over that history, though that
was good.
Adam Curry: Oh, I'm glad you like but I want you to have a
listen and we'll, uh, point out that they didn't put me in the
splits. Thanks.
Unknown: No, they left you out. Yeah. Unlike
Adam Curry: your board meeting, which always puts our guests in
the splits, always
Dave Jones: you should put, you should put Todd and Rob in the
splits, just to heap coals upon their head.
Adam Curry: Yes, keep coals upon their head. I think that is
Proverbs 27 Seven, actually, maybe 26 burning coals. Burning
coals. I didn't hear them. Promo it on power on the pod news
weekly review, which I did have a chance to listen to. Tomorrow,
there's a virtual summit. The podcasting 2.0 virtual summit
taking place.
Dave Jones: I know, what is a ver what is a virtual summit
like? What is this? Oh, what is this? Is probably something that
I should have known, that I've been told about five times and
just don't remember.
Adam Curry: Let me see if I could find it. The podcasting
2.0 virtual Summit, live and online in the podcast apps, I
believe Barry from pod home is he's probably doing the feeds.
Oscar, Mary will be there. I'll be there. DJ, Valerie B love
will be there. She's pretty good at the value for value stuff.
And it starts off, I think tomorrow, at 11am our time. Oh,
Dave Jones: is this the one that Sam is doing? No, Sam said this.
Adam Curry: No, this is not the SAM thing. This is something
else, I think. But if it was Sam, then we would have had 20
minutes of promo, that's why. But, well, that should be fun.
And then we had a you're gonna be on there? Yes, yeah, I'm, I'm
opening it up. And Valerie B love is going to fireside chat,
Dave Jones: summits. Summits invoke the idea of the pinnacle.
It's a conversation, yeah, yeah. Conversation.
Adam Curry: It's a conversation, okay, unlike the I got so after
I did the new media show, I had a really busy day. I had
promised this, this, this group who are doing the podcast,
knowledge festival, I know cool in Holland. I said, Oh, you
know, can you do a little video for us? Like, yeah, I could do
that.
Dave Jones: What? Like a promo video, well,
Adam Curry: no, like a, like a mini keynote, basically, oh,
wow, let me see. And so then all of a sudden, I'm Hello Adam
curry here in Texas, and open video, manure by you Lee by the
BNR podcast, Kenneth festival.
Unknown: It was, I understand a lot of the things you're saying,
yeah, like podcast, festival,
Adam curry,
Douche: I speak Dutch.
Adam Curry: You do, you're a Dutch master. So it was, it was
very, very I did 13 minutes in one take. I was pretty
surprised. Like, Oh, all right, was your, you're a pro. I was, I
was doing, I was doing video anyway. You know, I was doing
video the whole day, so, and that'll be my video. That'll be
it for video. This, this for the year, for the year. You know, we
were talking about, I think we mentioned, well, we've been
talking about entropy and AI and stuff. And I told, I think we
talked about, in the last board meeting, where I said, I'm, I'm
all in on just flooding, everything with AI, flooding
social media with AI, so the models collapse. And so you know
that the companies go broke trying to keep their models
clean, and there's a term for it. There's a term for it. Now
it's called AI slop.
Dave Jones: Oh, this is, this is like you. So this idea is like,
insistence is resistance. You're like, yes, you know, I insist on
using these products in order for them to destroy themselves.
Yes, I want to. I want you want to. You want to be afraid you're
having a front row seat for the for the self destruction. Yes,
Adam Curry: and I want to take credit for it. I did that. You
Dave Jones: know what grok? What grok refers to me, you and me
and everybody else. Grok considers us to be local pockets
of decreased entropy, otherwise known as humans,
Adam Curry: local pockets of decreased entropy.
Dave Jones: Yeah, do you see brown of London? Like posted?
Adam Curry: I did see, did see that? Yeah, that makes sense.
And, you know, I was thinking like, I mean, social media is
going to become unused, unusable as a particular x will probably
be first to go because of their very tight integration with
grok, but people are already seeing huge problems with
reviews. So any review website, or any product website that has
reviews, it's now filling up with AI slop. Comments
everywhere are being filled with AI slop. It's all you know, just
a different version of comment spam. I mean, I'm just waiting
for text messages, although that's kind of already there. I
guess political AI slop is creeping in places where people
can upload stories. You know, where writers are writing short
stories. People upload. AI slop. And of course, once it's up
there, then it gets re ingested. And then, you know, hold on. You
know, buckle up, because it just gets worse and worse. And then,
as I'm getting ready for the board meeting, I'm like, you
know, I think I'm just gonna move to IRC for my social stuff.
IRC is so exclusively Well, I mean, for real signal, you know,
for, you know, for re because, first of all, it's ephemeral. I
don't care. I don't need to see what someone posted five days
ago. That's part of the problem. Is what someone posted five days
ago, on, on x. I just want real time interaction. I want to be,
get be IRC is such a rich environment, if you just even
look at at our own IRC servers that we're all using, which is
the void zero, you know, zero node.net, I mean, you can have
your own room. You can have you can have moderation
capabilities. You can add cool bots. I mean, it could be a
great place for me to just post, you know, when I have a new
show, post it there. People get you can determine what, what
nicks or handles alert you to certain stuff, and it's, and I
think, because it's ephemeral, AI will, you know, you can, you
can block AI out. You just kick it off. It's not part of a
platform. It's just, you know, protocol. And I just thought,
you know, maybe I just move over to that, and, and, and
Dave Jones: it makes sense. It's like, it's like, I mean, it's
like Slack. And I think people like that for that reason,
because you don't, yeah, IRC is, but I mean, it's like, Slack is
just IRC this whole day. It is, it is, again, on top of ours,
right?
Adam Curry: But again, it's, it's another platform, and
someone else controls it, and IRC, you can have your own
server and it federates. I guess slack can federate too, in a
way. But yeah, yeah, I think you're probably right. Slack is,
in a way, just the fancy skin on an IRC server. Maybe it even
started that way. I don't know.
Dave Jones: It always looked that way to me. It had the same
I always thought that it was just a skin, but it, you know, I
fell into this trap too, of like having to, you know, I want to
own my content, and I want to have my own, you know, sir,
server for being, being on social media and all these kinds
of things. And I, the other day, I just went back and in my
podcast index dot social profile, and just set my history
to auto delete itself after like, a certain number of weeks,
maybe a month or so, or 90 day. I can't remember what I said it
to but I saw that I had like, 20 something 1000 posts on podcast
index, dot social, what a
Unknown: waste, and it made me depressed.
Adam Curry: I'm always whenever Tina's posting something on,
well, she got rid of her her ex. I'm very proud of her for doing
that. Oh, she did. I'm shutting that down. It makes me too
anxious. She's always been on Instagram and and she'll post
something like, why are you working for Zuckerberg? Why are
you making his platform more valuable? Why? Yeah, it's like,
well, of course, there's no, there's no right answer to that
question. There's not. But I will say that Zuckerberg has a
pretty interesting strategy. He's kind of on the AI slot
bandwagon in a way. You know, metashole ai play is the llama
model, and they're just putting out open source and, you know,
they intend to once it's, you know, once people have figured
out how to do stuff with it. I use llama on my start nine, and
I use this useful for some things, you know, then they're
going to create applications that you can put on top of your
own AI models. I think that's actually the way to go.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I think, I think they're, I think they want
to blow that whole thing up, yeah, like, like you said, and
then boost the the other, you know, the Google angle. I've
always been of the opinion, and I continue to be, that Google is
bringing these things, these AI things, out in order to in,
like, visibly, publicly, very, very publicly, failing at them,
just to show, just to strike, a lack of confidence In the
market. Um, well,
Unknown: you know, go ahead,
Dave Jones: I was just gonna say, because they, they
developed so much of what, of the transformer technology that
that is the source behind all these, all these models, and
they, but they never really did anything with it. And it's
because they know that it's long term, not a viable like it's it
See, here's the problem with even discussing stuff like this,
is, is you can? You have to be so nuanced in how you describe
its shortcomings and its and its limitations. Because if you just
say, AI. Is not viable. That's not exactly accurate. Because
we, you know, we can all point to use cases. You could sit
there and dream up 10 or 12 use cases where it would make your
life simpler in a certain use case. But, but if you take it
and you write it large, you say, large language models that are
based on public data sets from from the internet that is of
such limited lifespan, yeah, just just like what the grok
thing that Brian posted. So I was that that phrase local
pocket of decreased entropy that, you know, I'm like, Okay,
well, let's, let's just stick that in quotes. Let's take this
term, local pocket of decreased entropy, put it in quotes and do
a Google search from it. Where do you think that that came
from?
Adam Curry: Grok?
Dave Jones: No. I mean, where? Where did grok get it from? From
Adam Curry: Google. I'm sure Reddit, oh, red Reddit, yes, of
course. Well, Reddit is selling their data. They're making
that's one of their main revenue drivers now, is selling their
user data to to the AI companies, yeah.
Dave Jones: So you can, you can go on, you can find this term. I
was like, that is very specific term. That's such a good point.
And if you and if you quote search it, you can find that
that came from the local pocket of decreased entropy. Is a term
that groks large language model got from a few posts on Reddit.
And I
Adam Curry: see it right here. I see it right here under evidence
for creator,
Dave Jones: right r slash evolution, yes, yes, it is. And
so this is this. These are not. These are not. It is not
gleaning. It's it's not gleaning. This data from, from
x, from experts or vetted materials. This is just coming
from, from people discussing things on the internet, right?
And at some point it's going to book is going to come from
people discussing things where they're injecting AI output, and
then you're going to start to see the model collapse
accelerate,
Adam Curry: yeah, and, and what this really does is it destroys
Google search capability.
Dave Jones: What do you mean? Like, flesh that out? Well, I
agree with you, but I want to hear what, how you describe it.
Adam Curry: Well, so Google is just always crawling the
internet, and so it's picking all this stuff up. So it's
picking up, you know, it'll pick up the transcript of this
podcast. Yeah, when it comes to local pockets of decreased
entropy, it'll see links pointing towards this podcast
and this transcript, it'll, you know, push it up the up the
ladder, and, you know, before you know it, we've got it.
We've, we've, we've birthed the meme, you know, but it's, yeah,
it's not necessarily useful if someone is, you know, looking
for some information. Lpdes,
Dave Jones: we've, you know, local pockets.
Adam Curry: PD, I'm a pocket of decreased entropy.
Dave Jones: Well, this actually fits back into, what, what the
just let me, let me actually pull that up, because this, this
is an interesting sort of it, the the whole idea, what Brian
asked was, how does Darwinian evolution produce, uh, producing
increasing complexity go against entropy? And so the the answer
was this long thing with bullet points, and a lot of it is stuff
that you know, is, is already known and and discussed and
debate and debated by actual people. So like, yeah, energy
flow, longer time scales we already saw, you know, we talked
about that last week. You know, just, just giving something more
time doesn't doesn't help you in this, in this issue, but this
sort of the main thrust of the argument that that is being
formulated by this AI, is that, or by this language model
synthesis, is that it's not a contradiction to Have evolution,
evolutionary progress that would be ascent with modification,
because even though it does defy entropy, it's not a because you
have an injection of energy from an outside system. So this would
be the sun. So the Earth is not a closed system. It's an open
system that gets its energy, that gets an energy input from
the sun. But you know this, and I'm going to pull this back to
what you're saying in just second, but the more the more
energy. Well, first of all, life is built from energy and
information, not just energy itself. I mean, I would argue a
third requirement as well, which would be a will, but we'll you
can leave that. Long for now. So, you know, energy has, excuse
me, information has two possible aspects to it. You have a
physical representation of that information, and then you have
its meaning information. Information isn't just bits.
It's the bits and their meaning. So let's, let's, you know,
imagine that you took a SSD drive and you launched it into
space, into, you know, where it had direct exposure to, like
solar flare radiation, and then in a few years, you brought it
back down to earth, and it had bit flipped like crazy, because
it's getting penetrated by this radiation all the time, you
would have lots of bits. You would have lots of ones and
zeros on this drive that they would be completely meaningless.
So the information is information is not information
until it has meaning to it. There's a there's a term for,
you know, like information without meaning. We call that a
bug.
Adam Curry: Need to route around it. Yeah.
Dave Jones: Or, or, if you have information without meaning in
your DNA, that's called cancer, wow. Information without meaning
is not information, it's something else. So that, you
know, that's the first part of that. But then energy, the
energy aspect, energy without direction, is destructive. It's
not constructive. So if you just inject energy into a system,
you're more than you're more likely to kill the system. The
radi Yeah, you're gonna, you're going to increase entropy, not
decrease it. Think about hurricanes and solar flares.
These are large influxes of energy, and they take, take a
take a beautiful wooden, you know, like a like an armoire or
a chest or something that's beautifully decorated. Take it
and sit it out in the direct sun energy, you know, barrage, like
in a desert for a few years, and you'll see that it is a
destructive process. Energy influx does not build, it
destroys so, like, information degrades over time as well. So
you have to have, you know, you have an influx of energy from
the sun, but if it's undirected, and it's directed by the it has
to be directed by the information. So the energy is
coming from outside the system, but also the information is, I
would say that that information comes from, god, yes, in a
directive process. But you have to have those two elements. So
the the same way with AI, you know, you have this influx of
energy coming into and information coming into it.
Those two things, if not properly directed, are
destructive, and people are trying to control it right.
Adam Curry: There you go, these
Dave Jones: guard rails on, on it, but, but ultimately, it's,
it's, I think the we're going to prove to be incapable of doing
that.
Adam Curry: But, man, people are going to make a lot of money on
those stocks. In the meantime, this is really what it's all
about. Yeah, yeah.
Dave Jones: This week in entropy, yeah.
Adam Curry: Move to some structured content here the
podcast standards meeting they held in Washington, DC,
published their their wishes for moving forward. Oh, you're
talking
Dave Jones: about the blog post. Yes, they have a blog. Yeah, let
me copy them,
Adam Curry: yeah. And so they, they have a first they
celebrated the podcast pod roll adoption, which I think is good.
It hasn't really surfaced in many places yet, but people are
creating them on their feeds, which is good. We do it on this
show. Oh, it has something to tell you, by the way. Well, what
are you drinking? First of all,
Dave Jones: this is a Lacroix, pure unflavored mineral water.
Okay, you
Adam Curry: want to tell me something first before I move
on, so you don't write it down.
Unknown: I won't forget. Okay, I'm
Adam Curry: reading here from the blog post enhancing the
podcast the person tag. We spend a lot of meeting brainstorming
how could improve the podcast. Person tag. We explored the idea
of attaching a GUID to each person with a central service or
endpoint for storage. This approach similar to Gravatars,
role in Avatar management. Could it significantly enhance the
tags utility? We touched on this briefly on the last at the last
board meeting, the utility would be improved identification of
individuals across different apps and services, increased
adoption by podcast hosting companies and apps and new
opportunities for discoverability and cross
pollination, and which I think is is good. I mean, I would love
congratulations to Pocket Cast. You know, they've integrated the
transcript tag so this namespace has legs. We have liftoff. We
have real. Lift off here. Russell Harrower, it's a tough
and a Harrower,
Unknown: it is a tough one. It's like, I can't say, drawer,
drawer, drawer, drawer. Russell Harr,
Adam Curry: he flagged some issues with the current person
tag, and then I want to talk to you about it for a second, Since
no one seems to have replied to him.
Dave Jones: Have not read it yet. Well, he
Adam Curry: says, so. First, he say he has some you know, stuff
about well, you know, tags should be flexible, but he feels
that if he actually wrote a an issue. While the podcast person
tag is a great tag to have, it's missing key requirements that
make it a valuable tag for podcast players and applications
to match a podcast guest or host with other podcasts they've
they're featured on the current person tag. Documentation does
not allow for a podcast hosting company to link to a person ID
or social interact. Slash social to a person. This means that
podcast players may unknowingly say that Russell featured on why
podcast? Why? Because the person's name match other
documents in that podcast player. So he's talking about
unique identific, identifier for a person. Now the podcast person
tag does have a an optional href link, which, in my mind, could
be used or should be used for that. In fact, whenever we have
guests on the show, I always put a link to the person's website
of their company, or if they have a personal profile page, or
if all else fails, to the podcast index, dot, social
profile. Do we need to change anything in this tag? So he's
basically talking about being an authentic so he's basically
saying we need a kind of what podcast standards is saying we
need a GUID for each individual person, and how do we handle
that?
Dave Jones: Yeah, so sit. I replied. Alberto sent me an
email and
Adam Curry: back channel.
Dave Jones: He sent me. It wasn't really a back channel. He
sent me an email and was like, hey, you know, heads up on this
blog post, essentially, here's the one that you're referring
you know, hey, you know, can we get some input on this? And I'm
glad he did that, because I would not have seen the blog
post otherwise, and my reply to him was virtually identical to
what you just said. I replied to him and said, You know, I'm a
couple of things. I feel like we would be, you know, of course,
the podcast index would be glad to host any sort of like Central
list, you know, like, we could put it on, you know, make a
GitHub repo for for this centralized list, so you could,
like, do a lookup of people, you were your guests, who have been
on other shows. I mean, I feel like that's totally fine and and
we would be happy to host that centrally for the community,
yeah, and then, you know, for but then also, and as and
everybody could contribute as well. Then the idea of the GUID,
my thought was exit was exactly what you just said, that the
href is should be unique already it. I mean it. You know, URLs
are essentially, are goods, because they have to be globally
unique. So if we just it, it's good to afford. I feel like it's
good for it to remain up, the good, excuse me, for the href to
remain optional, because there is this for the tag to be
flexible in that for what it is you want it to be flexible. You
want to be able to say you want to just be able to throw a
person tag in there and have it just work, yeah? But then if you
want it to be globally unique, like a great like Gravatar does
this with your email address, yeah?
Adam Curry: But we just don't really want to rely on Gravatar,
do we? No, I
Dave Jones: don't think so. No, I don't think so. I don't think
so because you could, I really don't think so, because it
requires an email address, and I just don't know that. I mean,
nobody wants to associate. There's just a real hesitancy to
associate your email address with podcast stuff and just
right, right, I don't know, and I just don't want
Adam Curry: to go good point after we got rid of it from RSS
fees. Now we. Want to reintroduce it back. Yeah,
excellent point. I mean, yeah, you
Dave Jones: know that HRF should be unique, right?
Adam Curry: I guess what Russell is saying is that it should be
unique. It should be the same across the board. So you so when
you have me on as a guest, you I would, I would prefer you to
point it to my podcast index, dot social profile, but someone
else may put in podcast index.org or or curry.com or
something else.
Dave Jones: I mean, I think that's the this, the protocol
itself, having the href as the unique identifier is fine, is
fine. And that solves the problem of, that solves the
problem of uniqueness, the problem of like, the idea of
wanting it always to be that Adam curry has this href, yeah.
That can be solved with with a central lookup. Hey,
Adam Curry: man, I want it to be my nostr and pub.
Dave Jones: You can totally do that. Bro, Thanks, bro,
Adam Curry: my nostr and pub. That's my identity in the world,
Dave Jones: like so that there's kind of like two, there's two
like angles to that desire. There's the the h ref solves the
makes it makes it possible to do that, but then having a central
lookup repository makes it sort of Dependable that you're always
going to get the same href right. And then just, you know,
like, just like a gravatar, if you want to have multiple
identities. You can just use multiple email addresses. The
same here. Like, if right, I may want to appear on a podcast
Adam Curry: and have a different personal Yeah, different
identity, yeah. Like, in my
Dave Jones: personal capacity, you can be and then have a
different you can be.
Adam Curry: Do we know on some other podcast, could be a woman?
Yes,
Dave Jones: I could. That's right, that's for my RP, my MMO
RPG identity, my female, you know, whatever, yeah. But that,
yeah, that's so you could just have, you know, you could have a
day if I was on a for my day job, if I was on a, you know,
podcast, for you know, tax stuff, then, you know, I would,
I may use a different profile that points that's more
relevant. And so then I would have these two identity, I don't
know. I just think the href solves it. I don't know that we
need to introduce a GUID.
Adam Curry: No, I don't think so. But if people want to ramp
up something on make a well, wouldn't that just be a table?
You don't we already have that basically, then we already have
these rows in the table for the podcast person tag.
Dave Jones: We do, yeah, and we could just, we could see that
list by just dumping that table out, yeah,
Unknown: initial lookup list, repository created. It's done.
It's done. We did. It was that fast enough? Russell,
Dave Jones: I mean, there was he's talking now, when he's
talking about social aspect, is he talking about, like your
social media handles or, I
Adam Curry: guess so. Yeah, is NP. That's the end pub deal,
Dave Jones: I guess we'll see that we, we know we need a
social tag here, and so I'm, I'm thinking, and we have yet to do
that, so I feel like that's probably the solution to what to
that part of what he's saying. Yeah, you've got the, you've got
the central look up good thing, and then you have, like, Okay,
but how do we attach, like, social media thing to that? And
I think I feel like those are two separate questions. I
Adam Curry: agree. I agree. That's part of a profile.
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, because, because we've talked about a
social tag, you know, like a podcast colon social tag, and I
feel like that is its own tag. And then you define it and
attach it to, to a person in some way, yeah, or maybe even
the this is interesting. Maybe the person tag could even, okay,
I'm getting sucked in now, yes,
Adam Curry: you are sorry, by the way, if anyone wants to join
my new social network, I'm hashtag Adam on nodes, on zero
node.net, that's my, that's my new social that's, that's right,
that's where you can find me. That's where you can interact
with me.
Unknown: IRC, yes, yeah, yeah.
Adam Curry: IRC, federates, right? IRC, federates, you can,
yeah, yeah. You can get to it from other servers. It's
Dave Jones: kind of real. It's a relays, yes, realizes. Relays
do. This is just like Noster, gee, only
Adam Curry: 28 years old.
Dave Jones: Publishers, I mean, I'm looking at the person tag
right now.
Adam Curry: Hey citizen, the first one, first one. Hey
citizen, first one in my social network. That
Dave Jones: wouldn't fit. No idea. Wouldn't fit. Nevermind. I
retracted. I take it back. The social, yeah, I think we could
do a social thing where we have, like, where we could attach,
even wrap tags in a social tag.
Unknown: Oh, there you go.
Dave Jones: I don't know what to think about it. Okay.
Adam Curry: Well, that was my hot name, space talk for the
day. Let me see what else I had on this thing. Ai content
identification. Oh, boy.
Dave Jones: Oh yeah. That should be easy, right? We had
Adam Curry: just we discussed the possibility of introducing a
tag to indicate AI generated audio content in podcasts. The
idea was inspired by YouTube. What's the what's the raspberry
for? Who cares? The idea was inspired by YouTube's recent
implementation of asking creators of the content makes a
real person appear to say, you know, it does you know? You
might as well just auto tag everything, because everything's
gonna gonna contain AI generated audio, whether you know it or
not, that's the future. That's the future. I
Dave Jones: know. I know. I know Apple for sure, wants that. It's
because Ted mentioned it that they want some way of of just
tagging, of having, like, an
Adam Curry: AI, all going to be AI. It will all contain elements
of AI. It's unavoidable. That's my point. That's the future.
Dave Jones: Well, well, I mean, but how far do you go with that?
I mean, like the no agenda may have, may play a clip that has
some AI in it in a mocking fashion, Yeah, but you're not,
but that doesn't mean that you are AI generated content. No,
Adam Curry: well, no, it says makes a real person appear to
say or do something they didn't say or do. So now they're into
the misinformation game. No, I don't. So you might as well. I
mean, no, agenda is arguably 50% misinformation. You know, I said
Dave Jones: that please.
Adam Curry: I was but I played this song on the pre screen.
This one, I'll just play a little bit. Get to the vocals.
There you go.
Unknown: Cody Wilson forced
the way. Stark followed, led the fray.
Adam Curry: I kind of liked this song. I just pulled it off of
the split kid, and we right away, it was like, That's AI, is
AI? And I hadn't even realized it was AI. I like the guitar. I
like the riff. It's pretty good when it comes to AI, is it AI?
For real? No, everyone says it is, says it sounds like it Come
coming straight out of Sumo, which probably is Sumo. I don't
know what that is. Oh, yeah, Sumo is the is the Sumo is
getting sued. Sumo sue me. Mo, oh,
Dave Jones: is that the? Is that the one that enabled that, uh,
Spotify fraudster guy to do all that? Probably,
Adam Curry: yeah, probably. But by the way, it wasn't that. It
was AI. It was, he was, uh, defrauding the streams. That's
that was the problem.
Dave Jones: Well, yeah, auto auto tune. Yeah, we'll make you
sound like AI. But I mean, if we go back, if somebody played, if
Cher released her auto two song, tune, song, yep, today everybody
would say it's AI, but it was, it may just be auto tune.
Adam Curry: Yeah, that's possible. It's possible. Most
songs today are auto tune. But anyway, oh
Unknown: yeah, I don't like this. Live shows are auto tuned
pretty
Adam Curry: much now, oh yeah. I mean, my theremin is auto tune.
Unknown: That's why it sounds so good. This is why you can jam,
yes,
Adam Curry: how I hit the notes. But you know, if you want to get
into the game of may, of asking creators to tag their content if
it makes a real person appear to say or do something they didn't
say or do. I will never do that. You want to highlight parody,
but it may not be parody. It's like now you're in the in the
misinformation, disinformation game. That's a very slippery
slope, people. You don't want to get into that.
Dave Jones: I don't have a problem with a general tag that
just says, this is, this is all AI. I mean that to me that
sounds because we do that. That's similar to what happens
on the Fed averse when you can tag an account as a bot and you
say, Okay, this, this is just not this is not a human. And
it's sometimes right helpful to know that you could say, well,
this, you know, this show, if it's if you're putting out a
feed this, every episode is generated by notebook. Lm, well,
then you could just tag that as, okay, this is an auto generated
feed.
Adam Curry: I mean, there's a, there's a, I actually subscribe
to an AI podcast. Which is the automated daily,
Unknown: and I'll play it for you so you can hear what it
sounds like.
Welcome to the automated daily, top news edition, the podcast
created by generative AI. Now we're not just delivering the
news, we're empowering you to become a storyteller. Create
your own pie. Have
Adam Curry: this auto skip picked list of because I'm
annoyed by hearing this every single time. Email
Unknown: us info. The automated daily How do you auto skip? It?
Today is 2008,
Adam Curry: and podcast guru, you can say, just skip. You
know, start eight seconds in. Here we go. So this Secretary
Unknown: General, Antonio Guterres, has raised alarms
about the rising sea levels, describing them as a rising tide
of misery. You
Adam Curry: know, it's not an, it's not an rising tide of
misery. It's not an offensive voice. It's, it's three minutes,
you know, just gives me some some I know where the headlines
are coming from. But they also do a hacker news edition, an AI
edition, and that's tedious stuff that no one will do. And
I'm like, Oh, I'm okay with that. I'm okay with you just
listening to you read some headlines and some summaries.
And of course, I love it, because this creates more AI
slop ultimately.
Dave Jones: Well, the which is, which is your mission, that is,
yes, it is. The, there's a bunch of these in the index. And these
should all like, I would not have a problem with there being
a little like, right now it says news and daily. Are the two
little badges on it, two categories, right? So if you had
another little badger here that you said automated, or AI, yeah,
generated, or something like that, because then you could,
then you could in, then you could index on it and say, Okay,
I'm looking for, looking for some shows, but I don't want AI
shows, right, right? I don't have a problem. I think, I think
that's fine. I do.
Adam Curry: Okay, yes, if it's, if it's just because the show is
generated by AI, but not if it's pretending to be something that
someone said that it wasn't true. Of like, come on,
Dave Jones: nah, yeah, because then then you're immediately
gonna open up the can of worms. Of it's selective editing, and
you're just gonna get all this. It's just No, I agree, and
Adam Curry: by the way, I agree. Harv hat, CGI, I'm calling it
should be CGA, computer generated audio. It's not AI by
any stretch of the imagination. This computer generated audio
from text files. It's beautiful. This is just fine. Let me see.
Was there anything else new application process? Oh, yeah,
you have to apply. Can we? Can I apply? Apply to be a member.
Apply for what? What are you applying to become a member of
the pod standards group?
Dave Jones: Oh, don't. No, don't do that. Okay, then, then
they're gonna send you, uh, dinner, send you more emails and
invite you to a Slack channel. You don't want
Unknown: that slide show. And I
Adam Curry: have a feeling their meetings aren't 30 minutes. No,
Dave Jones: okay. I like, I like the I like the way this works
right now, where, where they have meetings and then they just
email us the blog post. What do you think? Yeah, it's
Adam Curry: good, perfect.
Dave Jones: I prefer to stick with that model. Works for me.
Works for me. Can we I've got some more namespace stuff if you
want to. Yeah, well,
Adam Curry: then let me get the business. And now it's time for
some hot name space talk, yeah, because all I had was lukewarm.
Dave's bringing the heat. Dave's bringing the heat to the
namespace. Talk,
Dave Jones: your stuff was tepid, tepid.
Adam Curry: Sorry, I'm sorry for being tepid.
Dave Jones: The funding tag. Ah, my favorite. You're you're a fan
of the funding tag.
Adam Curry: I am. I
Dave Jones: so I realized something last night. I was
doing some some work, and realized that the funding tag is
only for the channel level, and it feels like it should be as a
it feels like an artificial restraint where
Adam Curry: it should be item level as well.
Dave Jones: Yeah,
Adam Curry: I'm gonna, I'm completely all in on that. I
agree I done next. It has to be. I think it's I think it's
critical. I think it's critical. I didn't even realize that it
was channel level only that didn't either. And I also wish
that apps would make clear what it is, you know, because, well,
obviously funding is just a name in the namespace, but it's
really either support this or donate. I mean, I think those
are, those are the terms that fit best. Use your own
discretion. Podcast guru, let me see I don't quite like their
implementation, although it is my data driver. I
Dave Jones: heard you throw Jason under the bus on the new
media show under the. Ending tag. Well,
Adam Curry: that's not throwing men under the bus. That's
constructive criticism.
Dave Jones: Okay, you put you put his toe under a tire
Adam Curry: and rolled and then, and then hit the gas and backed
over it again. So if I'm in an episode, obviously it doesn't
show which makes sense, because it's channel level only, and if
I'm Let me see. Let me see if I do this, right? So if I go to
the channel level, okay, so support this podcast is under
the menu bar, but not visible in the UI. I think that that was my
complaints, like, Hey, man, and yes, it should be visible when,
when you're playing the podcast, that's, that's the ultimate
moment. And there's, there's 50% screen space on podcast guru to
put it in there. I'd love to have that at the at the item
level. So can we change the namespace? Can we change Yeah,
okay, I
Dave Jones: feel, I feel like we should, I don't think. I cannot
imagine anybody having a problem with this. I mean, if I haven't
heard from anybody that this, that this is a problem in in,
you know, by the end of the weekend, I'm just gonna go ahead
and do it good. I mean, I'll document it, I'll document the
change and make sure everybody knows about it. But I just don't
see how this could possibly be a problem. This is the stuff that
drives everybody crazy, the true running with scissor stuff. When
we have a discussion like this, and we're like, Yeah, I'm just
gonna change it, right?
Adam Curry: Everybody's like, well, you make it optional,
right? You make it optional to be item level, yeah, yeah, yeah,
that's the way to do it.
Dave Jones: So I just don't there's because you can imagine,
we can all sit here for two seconds and imagine many
scenarios where this would apply.
Adam Curry: Well, now I understand why podcast guru
wasn't floating my boat because, because it's, it's not an item
level thing. So when you're just playing the podcast, it's not
going to show up. I mean, it could. But just thinking from a
developer standpoint, oh no, this is when you're looking at
the all, the whole list of the podcast, when you're basically
looking at the channel, that's where support this podcast shows
up. I completely understand how that flows through to a
developer in putting that feature in again, whereas if
it's also at the item level, hello. Stephen Bell, I need that
the item level. Then, you know, then it makes sense, because
there's just a piece of data sitting like, oh, I need to put
in. I need to put this piece of data into the individual item on
the on the item player page. So I completely understand. So,
Jason, I love you, man, I did not. I did not mean to be
throwing you under the bus that was just bumping you
Dave Jones: when you're when you're at India. Developer, yes,
still to, still to boots. Yes,
Adam Curry: you have to, you have to have boots like that.
And that makes sense. And I'm hoping that we get some wallet
solution pretty soon. Any word from the Zebedee folks yet,
nothing yet, I presume. Well,
Dave Jones: I mean, they're kind of waiting on me because I'm, I
need to. I've set up my developer account on there, but
I haven't had chance to code on it, because of this other thing
that that I've got going on. And you mean,
Adam Curry: the robot, building the robot.
Dave Jones: This thing is awesome.
Adam Curry: It'll do your laundry, you watch.
Dave Jones: I so wish we were building a robot. Yeah, the sub
hadn't had a chance. I'm hoping to get to it this week where I
can set up a little dim, you know, like a sandbox type app.
Just check it out, cool. Um, one thing happened this. One thing
happened this week.
Adam Curry: A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the
office. Yes, a
Dave Jones: funny thing happened in the aggregator. Oh, yeah, I
Adam Curry: read about this. You did Yes. This is the, the
delayed, uh, surfacing of a particular feed. No,
Dave Jones: no, no, no, that, that's, that's the ungovernable,
ungovernable misfits, which those guys are crazy anyways, in
the title,
Adam Curry: the problem is, in the title, they're ungovernable.
It's
Unknown: like, yeah, like, it's
Dave Jones: not showing up. And Steven's like they're
uncomfortable misfits.
Unknown: Exactly No. I'm
Dave Jones: talking about a different issue that Oscar
emailed me about. He emailed me a link. Can I? Can I find this
feed? Hang on, I just got, I just got the booster gram blitz
in my email. So I'm gonna have to go back through here and find
it. Oscar, here we go. All right. This is podcast ID,
311232, let's see what that goes to 313311232, yeah, the ABP, AB.
P Audio, Bible podcast.com, the World English Bible, blended
mix.
Adam Curry: Oh, I think I spoke to these guys. They have 8000
versions of the Bible. Probably. Yeah, let's see where's what's
it called again,
Dave Jones: what's going on with my internet. What's wrong
Adam Curry: with the Internet? What's the three? What's this
podcast
Dave Jones: into podcast index ID 311232, it's the ABP. World,
English, Bible, blended, mix, January, start,
polio, okay? Bible that
Adam Curry: didn't work very well. Podcast.com
Dave Jones: they searched that way. Oh, Lord, they got a lot of
Bibles.
Adam Curry: What are you searching by?
Dave Jones: I searched for audio Bible. Podcast.com Okay, yeah.
They got World English Bible, King James Version, King James
Version, right? One hour a day, April, start, November, start
January. Whoa, they've got this must be like a through the Bible
in a year type of thing. Yes,
Adam Curry: they and they had a read for every i think they
reached out to me. I'm like, you guys should do it in the in the
index. And then they, they showed up. And so what? What
happened? What's the problem?
Dave Jones: Well, okay, so the issue was, Oscar said there's,
there's no this episode, like there's this episode that's not
showing up. And it was on this specific one, this world English
Bible blended mix January start, and he ref, he's, he gave me the
episode that's not showing up. And so I started looking through
the feed, and the GUIDs in this feed are like, here's Okay,
messed up the GUIDs. Well, it's fit. So here's the GUID. The
good for one of the episodes is 15. I'll just say the numbers,
one, 5.267 the next good is one, 5.2681 5.269, blah, blah, blah.
So then two of the episode that's missed. That was missing
was episode with a good fifteen.to six, but there was
run one right beside it in the items table with so it was the
one that was missing was 16.26 the one and but there was one in
there with 16.260. Is the GUID. So what does that tell you?
Quiz, quiz time.
Adam Curry: Give me the question again.
Dave Jones: So there's two episodes in the feed. One has a
GUID of fifth of 16.26, another one has the GUID of 16.260 only
16.26
Unknown: is showing up, oh, because of the zero at the end
will be ignored.
Dave Jones: Yeah, it was part yes. It was parsing. The
aggregator. Was parsing the GUID as a number and dropping the
Adam Curry: zero. So you had a integer instead of a string,
Dave Jones: specifically as a as a float or a double. Oh, yeah,
Adam Curry: that's what I meant to say, as a float or a double.
Well, in
Dave Jones: JavaScript, there is no such thing as a float or a
double. I think everything is a double, but there's only one
type called number, and it can and it's just everything's a
double. So the but it so, and they can be represented by a
decimal, you know, notation, number and even. But so the XML
parser that I use, called fast XML parser, is it has a bunch of
controls for to get around this, but none of them, like, none of
them work very well. Like, it's very poorly documented aspect of
this, of this parser of to try to tell it not to parse things
as a number. And none of them,
Adam Curry: you know what this is Don't you, we need to praise
God for finding this bug for us
Dave Jones: through the Bible. Yeah, specifically, Isaiah
Unknown: will be incomplete.
Adam Curry: Yes. Thank you. Thank you. God, that was a good
bug. Find that's a good one. He broke the parser.
Dave Jones: Um, I got it fixed. But I don't like the way.
Unknown: I don't like the fix a Bible bug. There you go. It's a
Bible bug. It's a Bible bug again. Okay? Okay, so the fix,
yeah, gotcha. Well, the
Dave Jones: fix is ugly, right now it is, I see, because I'm
afraid, sorry, this could be a, this could be, like, one of
those things where you try to fix it and you end up having,
like, a, you know, bombing out the entire aggregator with some
weird thing that you don't understand because you're making
all the ways to fix this with the parser itself. With this
fast XML parser, are sort of like, uh, blunt instrument type
cases, yeah. Give me an example. Like, well, it's like, stop
parsing anything as a number. Oh, and I'm like, Well, you
know, I don't know what's going on there, right, right? I don't
want to just roll that thing out and then all of a sudden have
another cascade of bugs happen. So what I ended up doing for now
is I just
Adam Curry: um exception,
Dave Jones: exactly, manual, if eat ID equals, yeah, then don't,
you know, basically, just turn off all parsing for, for the
GUID field, right? So anyway, this, it's, it was, it was
interesting. You see the, I mean, when you get into RSS
parsing and you see the kitchen sink. Man, oh, you
Adam Curry: see, you see the kitchen sink. You see the
plumbing. You see that gob of hair down at the bottom of the
pipe. You see it all
Unknown: nasty, like, what
Dave Jones: even? What even are these goo? It's like, what is so
here's,
Adam Curry: yeah, what's the what's the generator? What was
the feed generator?
Dave Jones: Ooh, it's good question. Let
Unknown: me see here, because that's, let's go to the source,
not documented, okay, home baked monk,
Dave Jones: web master, the webmasters, uh, email addresses
in here it is. XB, 64, TG, three, YSC, at Leia makings.com,
space. Web monkey, which is not an I don't even understand what
that means. Whoa. Web monkey, web
Adam Curry: monkey, why does that sound familiar? Web monkey,
web monkey. Let me see what web monkey is. Web monkey is.
Dave Jones: Is that the guy that did the no agenda, website,
Adam Curry: no, his handle, no, that's, uh, no, code monkey.
He's codes, codes monkey. Web monkey reference, uh, hmm,
whatever happened to webmonkey.com I don't I just
remember code Yeah. I remember web monkey being some kind of,
yeah, web monkey, the site is gone, the site that turned
humble web developers into attention grabbing authors.
Dave Jones: Web Oh, web monkey. Was that that? Yeah, yeah. That
was the thing, like a tutorial side or something, I think. So
that's right, that's right. But these, I don't know what these
GUIDs are, so like this. This item is day 267
Adam Curry: Oh, that's got to be a Bible in a year thing,
Dave Jones: yes, day 267 in the GUID is 15.2. 67 what is I don't
know Isaiah.
Adam Curry: Isaiah 15. What? What? What book was it?
Dave Jones: Isaiah 3230. No,
Adam Curry: can't, no, can't. I
Dave Jones: understand now what they're doing? Oh, okay, okay,
so, so, since they're doing about days, you're gonna have a
day 26 and you're gonna have a day 260 Yes, okay,
Adam Curry: day delimiter. That's what it is, yeah,
Dave Jones: yeah, yeah. That's what it is that if they had put
something else in there, like, like, even one single letter in
the GUID, then it would not have parsed that way, but, but we
need to be a business. Is not their fault. We need to be able
to handle whatever's thrown
Adam Curry: at us. Well, that's a good catch. That is weird. No,
I love how the whole community came together to figure that one
out. Well, now
Dave Jones: that I see that there's a whole bunch of these I
need. I'm gonna have to put in the better fix is going to be
just, just looking for this, you know, I mean pattern, the real,
the real fix is road pipe, yeah, there you go, grip pipe. There
you go. Got it? That's,
Unknown: that's my solution to everything,
red jacks,
Dave Jones: yeah, the fit, yeah, the right fix is to just Yeah,
create the Tweak the parser where it's not doing this with
Adam Curry: that solves. I have a two minute and 28 second song
for us today. Yay. Uh. Which is brand new from Ainsley Costello.
I would play anything by Ainsley sound unheard, sight, unseen,
and she's got some some nice guitar licks in this one, so
we'll play it. It has changed your mind. New from Ainsley
Costello looks
Unknown: nice on a screen, straight out of a magazine. Go
ahead, show some skin. Doesn't mean that it's for him. He makes
a joke. It doesn't land. Doesn't mean that you have to laugh. Put
his hands on your back. You can say, I don't like that if you
can't be grateful today. Doesn't mean that you have to take a
home. You can kiss in the dark while parked in
the car. Everything going on your thought at night, nothing's
going to change. Anybody can change
your mind if you have to pull away, don't have to feel any
shame. It's not your fault. You're not to blame. You don't
know of anything if you came, they paid for The day. For You,
nothing set in stone, and you can change your I've been there
before, and he may want more. And this isn't going on. You
thought it might, nothing set in stone, and you can change your
mind,
Adam Curry: fresh new music from Ainslie Costello in the
boardroom. Change your mind. Now available everywhere in the
value verse,
Dave Jones: that's a good one. Yeah, she does, yeah.
Adam Curry: I like that guitar, man, I like that. That sound
like a real guitar guy, too.
Dave Jones: A real guitar, yeah, not fake fake guitar. Fake
Adam Curry: guitar guy. Like a real guitar guy, exactly.
Dave Jones: So you, you said PayPal is gonna take Bitcoin
payments. Can Do Do you know any more information about that? So
Dvorak
Adam Curry: sent me an email. He was mad. It's like, heads up,
good news and bad news. He said, bad news. First, PayPal is
breaking all their existing links because we have a PayPal
rep, we have a we have an actual human we can contact, and they
say, Well, we're going to train you on how to do the new links
so all legacy links will apparently break. That was the
bad news, and that's where John was mad, like it's it, let's
break something that's doesn't need fixing. Let's fix
something, doesn't he break? It isn't broken. There you go. And
he said the good news is they told him on the phone that they
will be accepting bitcoin payments straight through to
fiat. So you send a Bitcoin, and I don't know if that's on chain
only, or if they'll do lightning, but I'm pretty sure
if they don't do it now, they will, and then you receive it in
your PayPal account as fiat money, and that will that for
Dvorak is okay, Which means we can finally start accepting
bitcoin on no agenda. And, of course, I hope, I hope that they
implement lightning.
Dave Jones: Let's see, let me, let me look at there's
Adam Curry: no announcement as far as I know.
Dave Jones: Okay, I thought, because I think I got it. I
think I saw a news article about it that mentioned it, though
really may have been Bitcoin magazine that would be
surprising looking articles. What do you bet that this? Here
it is. You have PayPal enables business accounts to. Buy, hold
and sell Bitcoin and crypto. Okay, so that may, that's,
that's it, yeah, that's
Adam Curry: different. That's different.
Dave Jones: Do y'all have a y'all are business account? I'm
Unknown: assuming that. Oh, yeah, okay, yeah.
Dave Jones: But I mean, at least y'all see, okay, here. So you,
you just jog my memory on this new media, show your PayPal link
in your funding tag, Todd and Rob is broken.
Unknown: Uh oh,
Dave Jones: if you click, if you click through on your funding
tag, link it, it code goes to a page on paypal.com that says
something's not right. This page does not exist. So whatever it
is you you got to fix that.
Adam Curry: Yeah, I had to fix the one on currying, the keeper.
Was it broken? Yeah, it was still going. It was still going
to, what's that? The same thing we had to change on the index
for the on change stuff. What was that thing called? Oh, Tally
coin. Tally coin, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're still going there.
So I changed, oh,
Dave Jones: I put out a put out another audiobook, yeah. Oh, it
is. And this time I did, you know, I'm doing the tour of
hosting companies.
Adam Curry: Oh, what's it? What's it called, I want to
subscribe.
Dave Jones: This is called an occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge
by Ambrose Bierce. I will link it.
Adam Curry: Oh, there you go in the boardroom. Do you mind if I
play a little a piece of it?
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, feel free.
Adam Curry: Banjo, yeah. Are you playing the banjo? Yeah, that's
me. Oh, man, I love you. Dave Jones, you're so awesome.
Dave Jones: A man stood upon a railroad bridge in Northern
Alabama, looking down into the swift water 20 feet below. The
man's hands were behind his back, and he jumped down with a
cord.
Adam Curry: Cool. I'll listen to that. I'll listen to your
audiobooks. One episode on more coming. Or is the whole thing in
one one deal, one
Dave Jones: miss, short story. Nice
Adam Curry: picture is that AI picture is that the real deal
is,
Dave Jones: it is mid journey.
Adam Curry: Nice.
Dave Jones: I'm starting to get a I'm starting to get the hang
of of the whole mid journey theme. You have to, it's like,
you have to to get something that doesn't look like typical
mid journey fluff, you have to tell it things like, don't
Adam Curry: look like mid journey. Fluff, yeah, yeah,
stupid stuff like that, yeah.
Dave Jones: You have to say things like, it is so funny how
you reverse engineer it? No, you first you have to know that
everything that is getting all of its content from the
internet, yeah, so then you think like you would with an
internet site, so you can say things like a picture taken with
a Nikon camera, right? And that's probably going to be
starting to pull off things like flickerish, type, size that are
actual pictures. Yeah, you're sort of gaming the system. From
the standpoint of it's all it's ripping off other people's
content. I like it. I like it. But anyway that so I did this
one on rss.com,
Adam Curry: and your experience. Are you going to do a review
later, an audiobook about your trip around all the hosting
companies, the
Dave Jones: tour of hosting companies? Yes, maybe I should.
I should put that out. Yeah, I should do that. All right, I'm
going to keep everybody mad at me.
Adam Curry: I'm gonna keep you on a schedule, baby. It says
summer hours. So Dave's, Dave's got to go back to the day job.
So I'm going to thank a few people. Oh, already,
Dave Jones: well, I didn't give my review of my rss.com,
Unknown: uh, experience. I'm sorry. Do your do your review?
It was great.
Dave Jones: They have audio, auto transcripts.
Adam Curry: You should do a review podcast. Today's review
is rss.com, it was great.
Dave Jones: And then banjo, and then the banjo
Unknown: outro, play us out.
Dave Jones: Play us out, baby. The UI is great. They have auto
transcripts, which was nice, so I was able to just go
transcript. Didn't have to do anything extra, yeah, just hit
the button. They had Albi integrated into the UI, so I
just put in my Albi address, and it nice stuck, it stuck a value
block in there, and they said, and they gave a little button
that said, Do you want to add us as a split? And I was like,
Yeah, sure. Added them as a split.
Adam Curry: Um, oh, nice
Dave Jones: pod. Ping. Shot it into the index. Immediately
created, created the entry, perfect. And then they allowed
me to put a pod role. So I put a pod role in there with all your
Unknown: other all your other books, all your other
Dave Jones: books, other short stories. Yeah, no. Yep. So it
was great, good interface, great, great experience. I
Adam Curry: will be listening this Buzzsprout. I will be
listening to this audiobook on my walk right after the show
with Phoebe. And
Dave Jones: I think so I'm doing Buzzsprout next. And I think our
rss.com and Buzzsprout both require you they can, they can
tag it as an audio as a medium equals audiobook, you, but you
have to just tell you have to contact support and ask them for
it.
Adam Curry: I was just about to ask, did you do that?
Dave Jones: I did. I just contacted Alberto, and he was
like, he said, done.
Adam Curry: Let me just check. Let me say, just verify. Oh,
Dave Jones: trust, but verify good
Adam Curry: ideas Medium. Medium equals audiobook, beautiful,
yes, sir, good job. You need to have their background music
equals banjo
Dave Jones: tag for Banjo. Banjo tag. We
Adam Curry: want to thank Harv hat for boosting in during the
show with 17,776 SATs, a big independence boost. Silas on
Linux has been boosting all day long. 500 SATs from fountain.
Just an idea. Adding text into the funding tag to be displayed
in a button would be would that be too much like if the
podcaster decides to put donate or support, or if they want to
link to a charity or something else, text for the button
itself, or description of some sort interesting idea, it's
already there, is there? There's
Dave Jones: already a textual component to it. Oh, is that
true? Yeah. I mean, like the funding, there's a link text
fund, you have a link, and then you have the text for the
funding for the link.
Adam Curry: Let me see, let me see where it's in there already,
it's under show info. I'm just looking at curio caster, Owner,
info, support links. Oh, yeah, phrase to ask for support, yeah,
that would be nice. Real estate is always tough. Real estate is
always tough on on the apps, though, yeah, for sure, we got
to bear that in mind. Good idea. It's done another happy
customer, raw ducks from salty crayon howdy boardroom just
wanted to say thanks to Chadha for helping Oscar be aware of
fountain users not being able to boost the artist directly
because of a broken value time split and not showing up in
helipad. All good. So far. Thanks, brother. Go podcasting.
Yes, yes. I saw that conversation too. That was a
great debug that went so fast that was fantastic. It was fixed
very, very quickly.
Dave Jones: Fill me in on what you're talking
Adam Curry: about. Oh, so in the you know, just another bug found
the fountain was not sending along the the TLV records on a
value time
Dave Jones: split, yeah, okay, yeah. 1000 stats from
Adam Curry: Sam Seth, the true fans has already extended the
podcast taxonomy in our app to include a label for AI. We only
use this if the hosts are AI. EG, Google notes LM, but they
should have it just, just automatically filter it to its
own podcast. It's always the same. It's the same. Two people
we need. Someone gave me, sent me a they uploaded a manual for
their Sony head unit for their car stereo. No way.
Unknown: It's hilarious.
Dave Jones: Super funny. I can play that as a podcast. I
Adam Curry: can play a little bit.
Bag: So, yeah, you're about to install a new car stereo. Tools,
ready, assignment building.
Adam Curry: But there's something hilarious right in the
beginning. Wait for
Bag: it before you toss those instruction manuals aside. Yeah,
hold
Douche: on, hold on. Don't do that. We're
Bag: actually diving into that often ignored treasure trove of
knowledge today with the Sony Xav 1500 e manual. Yeah?
Douche: Because honestly, those manuals are way more
interesting. Oh
Adam Curry: yeah, they're way more interesting. Now wait for
it like it's
Bag: not just about connecting wires. It's about unlocking a
whole world of features and understanding the tech that's
shaping the modern driving experience. It's
Douche: true. And this Sony manual, well, let me tell you,
it doesn't disappoint. I mean, where else are you gonna find a
warning about not eating batteries? Right off the bat?
Seriously,
Bag: page one, safety precautions, and boom, there it
is. Do not ingest the battery.
Unknown: That that is actually pretty good. That was the
Adam Curry: first funny thing AI has ever generated by itself
without even trying to be funny. That's what made it so good. He
just got 5000 from C loss on Linux. Well, there you go. Lol,
I didn't know it had a texting already. Didn't want to look
through the tag specific on my phone and hadn't used the
funding tag yet. Just came to mind. Okay, brother, no problem.
Thank you, Eric. PP, for your 3333 we move on to, let's say
Sam set the right. Not all AI needs to be labeled. Thank you,
Sam. You. Another 1000s from Sam, like Mastodon, he says, Add
a real equals me to the href, and now you have a verification.
Well, that could be done at any time. That's the easy way to do
it. Triple sevens from Sam. Wow. How funny. A virtual podcast sub
it. I think there's sarcasm in there. No idea about it as no
invite, so no mention on pod news weekly. Well, that's there
you go, I suggest this. I suggested this online event back
in April as I did two online podcast festivals in 2019 with
Kara Swisher and James Cridland. Is there an archive of that? I'd
love to hear that my online podcast 2.0 event was poo pooed
by the PSP group, so they wanted an IRL event at Podcast
Movement, but no uptake, so I'm doing an IRL podcast 2.0 event
in May of 2025, guess this event is the same format as Ainsley
music event. Say La vie. All right, well, I wouldn't take it
personally. Sam, we have another 5000 from C loss on Linux. He
says, there, I believe is already a thing called Social
AI. It's social media, but everything is AI generated,
everything, profiles and posts and everything. I didn't try it.
I think it's iOS only. The most tech bro idea possible. We have
moved far away from the invention of the telephone tech
used to connect people far apart. Yes, banned a bad career
advice. Chad. Will there be any podcasting? 2.0 contingent at
permissionless three in October.
Dave Jones: Well, what is that?
Adam Curry: I don't know. Permissionless conference sounds
like another Bitcoin Conference. Probably
Dave Jones: permissionless three. I've not heard of that.
Yes
Adam Curry: is the answer. No, no, yes, and then we're into the
I do a pre stream. So a lot of people boosted for the pre
stream stuff and missionless three
Dave Jones: from block works. Oh yeah, there's a conference for
founders, application developers and users. Yes, yikes. No,
Adam Curry: all right, why don't you tell me what kind of boost
you got there? Uh, Dave,
Dave Jones: oh, I guess. Well, I forgot, I left the office and
forgot to write down the PayPals this morning, and so I'm gonna
have to they're all mixed in. So I'm gonna have to read them off
my email, which I hate. So let's see my Michael Goggin, $5 these
are the monthlies and the and the one timers. Yeah, they're
mixed. Yeah. Michael Goggin, $5 thank you, Michael. Uh. Jorge
Hernandez, $5 Charles current, $5 Christopher reamer, $10 thank
you. Christopher Cohen glasbach, $5 one day I'm gonna realize I'm
gonna come to understand I've been saying his name wrong for
four years. James Sullivan, $10 thank James. This was the, okay,
this is a one off. This was of $17.01 which we know is a Star
Trek donation. Yes, we do from Archie. And he says, here to
help, go podcasting. Yeah,
Adam Curry: thank you, Archie.
Dave Jones: I wonder if that's, I wonder if that is pseudo or,
I'm sorry, what's his handle? You know Archie that helps
assist admins for Mitch and the pod verse Boy,
Adam Curry: oh, I don't know his handle. It's like su pipe. Pipe,
yeah. Su pipe. Pipe, find the device.
Dave Jones: Super. Pipe, right? Uh, Jordan dunville, $10 and
thank you. Jordan. Uh, drip. Scott, $15
Unknown: thank you.
Dave Jones: Thank you. Dr. Michael Kimmerer, $5.33 Chris
bernardik, $5 and that's it. That's our that's our PayPal so
I can get some boost. So
Adam Curry: thank everybody. Appreciate it so much.
Dave Jones: Let's see. And okay, this is how Pro I am now, uh oh,
that I realized that I forgot to send the boosts before I left
the office. And I did that while we were talking about grippipe,
wow, pulled out my laptop, remote, it in to the office
machine. No, to my to the to the server. Pipal server, yeah,
instant thing, well, and you never even knew it. No,
Adam Curry: I had no idea. Just like I do those end of show
ISOs, you never know I'm doing it. I never even know
Dave Jones: the beauty of audio, yes. Cole McCormick, 2222 he
says, Dave, the magic of mid journey is not that it spits out
something pretty decent the first time there's a new type of
creative process you need to experiment with. It's not just
about variants. Use the blend feature and describe look at how
it describes your personal images and craft your prompts
based on that, give it specific instructions on how the logo is
shaped. If you use, if you used quote, a logo for unquote, then
I see why you feel the way you do. But in my opinion, there is
something special about mid journey. I used it for my short
film and a drop ship. Drop shipping store. And was very
pleased with what I got. Experiment more. Okay. Well, I
am, I am experimenting. Yep. Thank you, Cole. Appreciate that
advice. Gina Everett, 3333 through fountain. He says I will
give fountain some grace. Just been frustrated at the nostra
switch up. Fountain was finally way less buggy for the past
year. But I understand they're trying the best
Adam Curry: and working hard. Oh yeah. Just really, yeah, we had
asked them to give, give the dev some grace, and
Dave Jones: he did. And he's he finishes by saying, all love. So
yes, thank you. Gene, appreciate that brother. Chris lass, that's
Chris from Jupiter broadcasting, yeah, 20,000 SaaS through
fountain. He says, just wanted to say, I really appreciate the
work you guys do behind the scenes for for the US podcasters
out here also, plus one to the idea of putting the on chain
address in the funding tag. Yeah, I've definitely heard from
a few listeners who would support via on chain, because
that's what they already have, where they already have their
SATs. Oh, good.
Adam Curry: It's a good idea. I just opened up. Yeah? He just
sent me an email. Chris is like, Hey, man, can I have a big boy
channel from the index, big boys,
Unknown: I'm no kind of man, yeah,
Adam Curry: we opened a big boy channel to to Chris over there
at Jupiter, because he's getting a lot of boosts on that this
week in Bitcoin show. So good. Yeah, Chris,
Dave Jones: last again, 20,000 SAS they found. He says, in my
humble opinion, we have let the crypto skeptics get inside our
heads. I think as a community, we should lean into the fact
that boosts are powered by a Bitcoin. As a small business,
I'm grateful to have support and a hard asset. It's helped me
fight inflation and keep my head above water. Bitcoin is an
intelligence test, and I don't need everyone in the world
listening. I want a great audience, but not the biggest
audience possible. These are the things we should lean into as
podcasting community, trying to offer an alternative to
mainstream crap. Go podcasting. I'm
Adam Curry: gonna disagree really with my part with with
the Go Go podcasting. No, I'm gonna disagree with that. We
should only be showing boosts in SATs. I think some apps can any
app can choose whatever they want to do, but I think there's
a bigger audience. And here's a Bitcoin podcast. So I
understand. I think we need to have, I'd love to have both,
some show both, most don't. I think in order to get the
general audience in you need to show fiat money. So I'm just,
I'm just not all in on showing sets. I don't need to orange
peel everybody.
Dave Jones: That's, I think we're gonna end up with both
solutions anyway.
Unknown: Oh, I hope so, yeah. I want both for sure. Yeah, yeah.
Dave Jones: Gene bean, not. Who is not? Gene Everett, 1337,
through. Cast O Matic, he says, Gravatar is still a thing that's
widely supported.
Adam Curry: Yeah, yeah, I agree we can put it in.
Dave Jones: Gene bean again, 1337, the cast O Matic, he says,
For this banner and other extras for the feed, why are we
reinventing things? If we want to make something easily
consumable for sharing in many other things, we should start
with Open Graph as the base, a schema that's already, a schema
already exists, that supports many things, and could be
extended to have a podcast namespace, a lot structured data
under Data under a podcast namespace. How would that work?
Open Graph in RSS?
Adam Curry: Now that's an interesting thought. I have to
think about that.
Dave Jones: So guess, I'm guessing he's saying define an
OG namespace, an Open Graph namespace, is there one already?
Adam Curry: I don't know for some reason, it might be open
Dave Jones: graph name, space, XML, Open Graph namespace,
declaration, do,
I don't there's an XML and S for it, but I'll only see it used In
an HTML content XHTML context. But to look at the names, I have
to look at the XML, XML and s documents worth looking up,
because it is a pretty neat idea, yeah, because then you
could just stick that in there, yeah. Okay, onward.
Unknown: I gotta get you out. Onward. Oh, yeah,
Dave Jones: let's see. Where are we at? Gene bean again, through
fountain 2222 says, Come on, Adam, leave your hatred of
liberals and politics in general. To other shows. This is
podcast boardroom, not a political podcast.
Unknown: What did I do
Dave Jones: libtards on the last show?
Adam Curry: Oh yeah. But I was, I was actually being super kind
by giving Rachel Maddow. Know as a prime example and trying to
help her. Okay, all right, well, gee, sorry, didn't know you were
so please.
Dave Jones: Anonymous, 5000 SATs go podcasting.
Adam Curry: Thank you, anonymous.
Dave Jones: Let's see Anonymous. Anonymous podcast guru user 250
sets. Kara Fraser is a badass.
Adam Curry: Oh, that was a the song I think I played. Wow,
that's
Dave Jones: from an old episode. Yeah, that's from episode 189.
All carrot, no stick, yeah.
Adam Curry: People go back and check stuff, man, that was how
it goes. They're
Dave Jones: back cataloging us. Uh oh, here we go. Delimiter,
com, blogger 23,000 savage fountain Howdy, fellow
Bitcoiners, Adam and Dave. Today, I'd like to encourage
your Bitcoin savvy audience to donate to the podcast hosted by
Adam curry curry and the keeper. Yeah. Available@www.co available
at www dot curry and the keeper.com they need your
Bitcoin to rise on the V for V leaderboard. So don't hesitate.
Please send them some bitcoin Satoshis yo CSV,
Adam Curry: that's right, you know, curry and the keeper is
often in the top 10 on fountain. I'm very proud of that. We've
we've gotten our audience to to step up. It's good. It's good.
Dave Jones: We were fate. We were this year was fading, but
now we've staged a comeback. We have.
Adam Curry: And I just want to welcome Matthew, who was going
to be hired by Libsyn, who will apparently be interacting with
the 2.0 folks. That's the way it was brought to us. So Matthew
hit me up and we'll get you a podcasting next. Our social
login
Dave Jones: we have. We'll have Matthew on the show. There you
go.
Adam Curry: Excellent idea, Dave. I gotta get you out,
brother, I gotta get you back to work. Otherwise, you know, these
board meetings who might have a strike can't have that
Unknown: strike. Yes, yes. All right.
Dave Jones: I think we solved a lot of stuff today. We
Adam Curry: did. We did, once again, the board meeting is
genius. Have a great weekend, brother. No, you mean you too
and everybody in the boardroom. Thank you very much. Join me on
my social network, hashtag, Adam, we'll see you next week.
Good.
Unknown: You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 visit podcast
index.org for more information. Go podcasting.
Exception, of.