1 00:00:00,900 --> 00:00:04,860 Adam Curry: Podcasting 2.0 for october 11, 2024 episode 197, 2 00:00:05,940 --> 00:00:12,120 yay. Jason, oh yes, everybody. I am Jax. I'm jacked and Ginny, 3 00:00:12,120 --> 00:00:15,600 it's time once again for podcasting 2.0 because it's 4 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:19,020 Friday the beginning of your weekend. This is exactly what 5 00:00:19,020 --> 00:00:21,560 you need to get you into the mood. It is Quentin time. 6 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:24,800 Everybody. Welcome to the board meeting of podcasting. 2.0 7 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:27,740 everything's going on in podcasting. We, of course, are 8 00:00:27,740 --> 00:00:30,620 the only boardroom that never puts anything behind a paywall 9 00:00:30,620 --> 00:00:34,220 and is always premium content. I'm Adam curry here in the heart 10 00:00:34,220 --> 00:00:37,880 of the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, the man who hashes hctp 11 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:41,440 without fear or favor, say hello to my friend on the other end, 12 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:47,680 the one, the only Mr. Ons himself, Dave Jones, 13 00:00:49,540 --> 00:00:53,920 Dave Jones: you sound crunchy. Crunchy? Yeah, you just say you 14 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:57,520 just crunched. When you replied to me, it's got, I must have you 15 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:58,960 jacked too much. 16 00:00:59,740 --> 00:01:02,640 Adam Curry: You know, I noticed, I think something changed with 17 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:06,420 clean feed, or something changed in Windows that I would actually 18 00:01:06,420 --> 00:01:11,640 blame windows for anything else, because I noticed that I 19 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:15,060 actually had to turn down the output that's going into clean 20 00:01:15,060 --> 00:01:19,260 feed. I'm minus four dB on myself. I wonder 21 00:01:19,740 --> 00:01:23,060 Dave Jones: you where this is very crunchy. Now, crunchy, very 22 00:01:23,060 --> 00:01:27,440 crunching. Just me or the No, no, it's 23 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,320 Adam Curry: boardroom. No, it's, uh, it's only the clean feed 24 00:01:30,320 --> 00:01:34,340 stuff. And Dvorak complained about that too. But I'm like, 25 00:01:34,580 --> 00:01:35,000 You're over 26 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:36,800 Dave Jones: modulate. I mean, you're like, Oh, I'm 27 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:37,640 Adam Curry: over modulating. 28 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:39,620 Dave Jones: Let me see what I got. Oh, you just pumped it out, 29 00:01:39,620 --> 00:01:41,300 right. There. You were super modulating. 30 00:01:41,419 --> 00:01:43,419 Adam Curry: Hold on a second. Let me check this for a second. 31 00:01:46,059 --> 00:01:50,919 Auto mute. No, I don't want that here. Let me see, oh, routing, 32 00:01:51,039 --> 00:01:56,859 oh, I can't do anything, hmm, I have a feeling it's something 33 00:01:56,859 --> 00:01:59,379 with either something, 34 00:02:00,519 --> 00:02:03,419 Dave Jones: I mean, I can put it, I I'm, I'm fine with it. I 35 00:02:03,419 --> 00:02:04,319 can tolerate it, for 36 00:02:04,319 --> 00:02:06,359 Adam Curry: sure, yeah, but I don't, I don't like you having 37 00:02:06,359 --> 00:02:07,139 issues with me. 38 00:02:09,060 --> 00:02:12,060 Dave Jones: Yeah, Daniel, Daniel's in the board, in the in 39 00:02:12,060 --> 00:02:14,940 the boardroom. He said, Adam sounds like he's clipping. I 40 00:02:14,940 --> 00:02:16,020 couldn't even hear him 41 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:20,480 Adam Curry: one second. Let me see, manage sound devices, like 42 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:26,000 I'm clipping, like I'm clipping, yeah, additional clip, it clip. 43 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:33,020 Let me see levels enhancement, advanced levels. Uh, no, that's 44 00:02:33,020 --> 00:02:34,040 not it. Hold on. 45 00:02:34,640 --> 00:02:35,600 Dave Jones: Are you enhanced? 46 00:02:37,460 --> 00:02:41,680 Adam Curry: Well, in more ways than one, my friend, let me tell 47 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:45,460 you. Let me tell you, Oh, second device properties, microphone. 48 00:02:45,460 --> 00:02:49,240 Here we go. Additional device settings. Let me see. How about 49 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,000 if I bring this back? Does that change anything? Or does it just 50 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:58,540 get softer? One softer, but it's better, it doesn't 121212 how's 51 00:02:58,540 --> 00:03:02,820 that better? Yeah, better. Or as it used to be, one two, as it 52 00:03:02,820 --> 00:03:06,840 used to be. Oh, okay, well, then I think windows just decided to 53 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:12,480 let me do this. 1212 okay, 1212 how's that? Is that That's good, 54 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:16,080 yeah, okay, I can pull it down a little bit like that. Okay, 55 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:16,320 yeah, 56 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:19,260 Dave Jones: sounds good. Okay, well, yeah, because I didn't 57 00:03:19,260 --> 00:03:22,160 change my slider on you, and then all of a sudden you were 58 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:25,040 just like, you pumping it out. Like, yeah, 59 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:26,960 Adam Curry: Dvorak was complaining about that yesterday 60 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:30,140 too. I think, I think windows just decided to change 61 00:03:30,140 --> 00:03:32,780 something. Hey, I you know what? Let's, let's turn up this level. 62 00:03:32,780 --> 00:03:33,740 For no reason. 63 00:03:34,220 --> 00:03:37,700 Dave Jones: Did it turn on the oral exciter? No, I, you didn't 64 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:38,180 know. That's 65 00:03:38,180 --> 00:03:41,200 Adam Curry: the first thing I checked make make sure there's 66 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,620 no oral exciter on there. Can't have any of that. Hello there. 67 00:03:44,620 --> 00:03:45,820 Dave, how you doing? Brother, 68 00:03:46,300 --> 00:03:46,780 Dave Jones: hey, hey, 69 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,360 Adam Curry: what's up? Yeah. Well, it's time, once again, for 70 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,540 a board meeting. Podcasting 2.0 lots to talk about. A lot of 71 00:03:52,540 --> 00:03:56,740 people yapping about stuff. A lot of things going on. A lot 72 00:03:56,740 --> 00:04:02,280 happening. Tuesday, that's going to be what happened in 2004 The 73 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:05,820 Verge is putting that out. I did my, my bit of the interview for 74 00:04:05,820 --> 00:04:06,360 today. 75 00:04:06,900 --> 00:04:09,780 Dave Jones: Okay, so this is a this without, with only knowing 76 00:04:09,780 --> 00:04:14,100 the title. This is a backgrounder on podcasting and 77 00:04:14,100 --> 00:04:15,060 its history. I 78 00:04:15,060 --> 00:04:17,160 Adam Curry: think it's a little more than that. I think because 79 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:21,320 2004 you know, YouTube was coming, Facebook was coming, 80 00:04:21,380 --> 00:04:25,040 Twitter was coming. It's like 2004 somehow was an important 81 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:28,520 year where a lot of things happened. I think that's but 82 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:32,240 yes, podcasting would obviously be the the most important thing 83 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:33,200 that happened in 2004 84 00:04:34,460 --> 00:04:39,260 Dave Jones: Okay, so they lumped you in with the 2004 parade of 85 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:40,040 of tech. 86 00:04:41,840 --> 00:04:44,560 Adam Curry: Yeah, there you go. I was, I was the last one that 87 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:46,660 kept hearing you. Like, Hey, can't I'm like, Man, I don't 88 00:04:46,660 --> 00:04:49,420 really have time. And then, and the guy finally says, like, 89 00:04:49,420 --> 00:04:54,040 Look, man, I gotta have this in by Friday evening. Like, oh, 90 00:04:54,220 --> 00:04:56,440 what is it again? Oh, okay, yeah, let's do it. 91 00:04:57,520 --> 00:04:59,740 Dave Jones: Okay, but you just roll it. I mean, you, you got 92 00:04:59,740 --> 00:05:02,340 you. Got that, that thing, pretty much nailed. I mean, you, 93 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,340 you don't have to, like, you can just roll in there and do that 94 00:05:05,340 --> 00:05:07,320 story with anybody, right? Yeah, well, I 95 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:09,240 Adam Curry: try to mix it up, you know, I try to put in some 96 00:05:09,420 --> 00:05:11,760 extra things and make it exciting, make it a little 97 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:14,640 unique for everybody. Yeah, it's good that 98 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:16,860 Dave Jones: it's not just, like another history of podcasting, 99 00:05:16,860 --> 00:05:19,080 because that's been done. So I'm to death, you 100 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:20,900 Adam Curry: know, it's not that. It's not, no, I like, I like 101 00:05:20,900 --> 00:05:23,120 their angle. I like the angle of what happened in 2004 102 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,800 Dave Jones: and what happened in 2007 with the cell phone. And, 103 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:32,720 Adam Curry: yeah, yeah. So I was listening to the new media money 104 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:34,220 and video show yesterday. 105 00:05:37,700 --> 00:05:40,520 Unknown: It's my new name for it in MMV. 106 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,160 Adam Curry: MMV, V, yes, the new media money and video show, 107 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:48,520 because that's all they talk about, is video and money and 108 00:05:48,580 --> 00:05:53,800 and I heard that you were, you Judas, you were, yes, you were 109 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,740 boosting the new media show and not listening to booster Graham 110 00:05:56,740 --> 00:05:57,220 ball, 111 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:02,400 Dave Jones: no, here, here's what happened. I saw, I saw 112 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:07,020 booster Grand Ball was live, yeah, but the feed was messed up 113 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:11,940 because from from the void zero stuff, I didn't get the live 114 00:06:11,940 --> 00:06:15,600 notification for booster and ball on my phone until, like the 115 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:19,800 show was almost I got a boot. I got the notification, the push 116 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:25,400 notification, I hit it went into pod verse, and you were like, 117 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,100 all right, that about does it? We're gonna hit the last I was 118 00:06:28,100 --> 00:06:31,820 like, oh, okay, all right, well, so, so then I was like, what 119 00:06:31,820 --> 00:06:34,280 else is live? And I like, some new media show was live. And so 120 00:06:34,280 --> 00:06:36,320 they got in and started, you know, boosting those guys, 121 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:36,680 right? 122 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:38,900 Adam Curry: But they go live around two o'clock our time, 123 00:06:38,900 --> 00:06:41,620 right? So my timing was right, because child was making it 124 00:06:41,620 --> 00:06:44,020 sound like we were doing at the same time, like, I don't think 125 00:06:44,020 --> 00:06:45,880 so I wouldn't do that, 126 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:48,040 Dave Jones: see, because that's what I that's what I thought 127 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,100 when I got the notice, and I was like, Oh, they're going, they're 128 00:06:51,100 --> 00:06:53,680 going head to head, man, that's, that's a bold move. So 129 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:55,660 Adam Curry: this was an interesting thing, because, I 130 00:06:55,660 --> 00:07:00,900 mean, the way the the void zero system works, which I think a 131 00:07:00,900 --> 00:07:05,580 lot of people are using, the no agenda infrastructure runs a lot 132 00:07:05,580 --> 00:07:09,120 of things for the community, including the stream and the 133 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:11,700 chat and the boardroom and the troll room and all that stuff. 134 00:07:12,180 --> 00:07:17,100 And the way it works is you upload your file, whatever it 135 00:07:17,100 --> 00:07:21,440 is, straight up FTP, and then he has this little mini CDN of, I 136 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:24,380 think, four or six servers in different locations around the 137 00:07:24,380 --> 00:07:26,600 world, and just does a synchronization. You get an 138 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:31,760 email, and you're done. So when I publish my feed, which then 139 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:36,260 has the live item in it, you know, obviously I get an email 140 00:07:36,260 --> 00:07:38,780 notification. I don't always look for the email notification, 141 00:07:38,780 --> 00:07:41,260 but I can see, you know, stuff starts to go off or not, and I 142 00:07:41,260 --> 00:07:46,000 get, I get pings that's live now. It's very kind of hit or 143 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:52,660 miss, because the whatever, I guess I'm using podcast guru, 144 00:07:52,660 --> 00:07:55,660 which does its own parsing, I think that's probably why I got 145 00:07:55,660 --> 00:08:00,240 the why I got the notification. But even uploading the feed, it 146 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:06,120 really depended on which server your app or whatever it was was 147 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:11,100 hitting, whether you got the updated feed or not. So if you 148 00:08:11,100 --> 00:08:13,920 happen to get the one, I think podcast guru just got lucky. 149 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,680 Yeah, exactly. So it just happened to get the one where I 150 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,260 upload the file because the synchronization wasn't working. 151 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,760 And then after I'm done with the show, I'm like, publishing. And 152 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:26,540 I'm like, How come it's an episodes.fm updated? That's 153 00:08:26,540 --> 00:08:29,660 what's interesting. Like, okay, because I guess episodes.fm 154 00:08:30,140 --> 00:08:34,100 doesn't look to the index. When you use something, it doesn't 155 00:08:34,100 --> 00:08:38,000 have an iTunes ID, I just use the URL. So it got lucky. It 156 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,860 said, Okay, good to go, good to publish. And then there's all 157 00:08:41,860 --> 00:08:44,440 kind and of course, the errors come like, Hey, I'm not getting 158 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:46,840 it. This is not happening. That's not I don't understand 159 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:49,660 what's going on. And I'm like, I don't I can't figure it out 160 00:08:49,660 --> 00:08:53,740 because I can see the feed. I refresh the page, I get I get it 161 00:08:53,740 --> 00:08:57,340 from the servers. It looks good. And then you say, No, I'm not 162 00:08:57,340 --> 00:09:01,800 getting it because I pinged you opened it in my browser, and it 163 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:04,560 was right. And then, so I refresh my browser, and then it 164 00:09:04,560 --> 00:09:07,560 wasn't there. Then it was only episode 23 I'm like, okay, 165 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,620 something screwed up. I immediately think, caching, but 166 00:09:10,620 --> 00:09:14,160 boy, that's a long cache. Trying to bust the cache. Re uploading 167 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:19,080 stuff. So I wind up. I hit Telegram for void zero. He's not 168 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:23,000 responding. So I pull the bat sigma, pull the emergency rip 169 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:28,520 cord, which is a text which I'm in his priority group. So he 170 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,640 gets woken up in the middle of the night in Holland. Oh 171 00:09:31,700 --> 00:09:32,240 Unknown: yeah. He 172 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:38,120 Adam Curry: says, what? So what? And because I also have to do 173 00:09:38,180 --> 00:09:40,460 curry and the keeper that night, so I'm like, something's wrong, 174 00:09:40,460 --> 00:09:43,300 man. He says, Oh, let me see if I can fix it. And he says, oh, 175 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:47,380 yeah, I did an upgrade of everything earlier today. Like, 176 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:52,420 oh no, cool. Well, he's learned he doesn't do these things 177 00:09:52,420 --> 00:09:54,880 before, you know, on a show day, so that's good. But of course, I 178 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:58,900 do a show almost every day, and so, you know, he switched to 179 00:09:58,900 --> 00:10:00,120 Knicks a while. L 180 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:04,260 Dave Jones: back, NixOS, Nix OS. And 181 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,500 Adam Curry: so this is apparently some kind of deep 182 00:10:07,500 --> 00:10:11,820 seated bug. Even had to open up a GitHub issue for it. I wonder 183 00:10:11,820 --> 00:10:15,420 what it was. I don't know exactly, but he, he jerry rigged 184 00:10:15,420 --> 00:10:18,300 it somehow, and it got it working again. And then, but 185 00:10:18,300 --> 00:10:22,340 then, of course, yesterday, I got another like fear moment 186 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:27,020 when I get last night, I'm going to bed, and I get all these I 187 00:10:27,020 --> 00:10:30,740 just hit the Twitter timeline, which I you know, just due to 188 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:37,340 the inbox, what's going on, and people are mad, like, what Apple 189 00:10:37,340 --> 00:10:41,980 hasn't updated in over three hours? And so I verify 190 00:10:41,980 --> 00:10:47,440 Instagram, ball or no for no agenda, for no agenda, and I 191 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,380 think it was just an apple parsing error or whatever it 192 00:10:50,380 --> 00:10:55,600 was. And every, every tweet said, Time to switch to a modern 193 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,660 podcast app. See, yep, because that's one of the features I 194 00:10:58,660 --> 00:11:02,340 always, I always say, if you get a modern podcast app, you get 195 00:11:02,580 --> 00:11:06,060 almost real time updates. You know, there's no waiting around 196 00:11:06,060 --> 00:11:09,420 for hours. And so this is thank you Apple for marketing that 197 00:11:09,420 --> 00:11:10,080 that was great. 198 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:13,260 Dave Jones: Now I want to talk about that a little bit today 199 00:11:13,260 --> 00:11:13,560 too. Well, 200 00:11:13,740 --> 00:11:15,420 Adam Curry: should we bring in our guest? Should we bring in 201 00:11:15,420 --> 00:11:19,860 our guest? Yeah, sure, since this guest knows a lot about 202 00:11:19,860 --> 00:11:23,780 podcasting, he's been around for a hot minute. You know him from 203 00:11:23,780 --> 00:11:28,580 the podcast. The audacity, the audacity to podcast. You also 204 00:11:28,580 --> 00:11:31,340 know him as the man behind pod. Gageman, welcome to the 205 00:11:31,340 --> 00:11:34,520 boardroom, everybody. Mr. Daniel J Lewis, 206 00:11:34,820 --> 00:11:36,260 Unknown: thank you. Thank 207 00:11:36,260 --> 00:11:38,420 Daniel J. Lewis: you. Thank you. Adam, thank you Dave. Thank you 208 00:11:38,420 --> 00:11:40,540 everyone. Don't worry, we'll just edit out all that other 209 00:11:40,540 --> 00:11:43,060 stuff that happened earlier? No, we leave that in 210 00:11:43,060 --> 00:11:45,220 Adam Curry: there. They're talking about that would that's 211 00:11:45,220 --> 00:11:47,200 the best part is when it all screws up 212 00:11:47,740 --> 00:11:50,020 Dave Jones: the future of podcasting. That's that's your 213 00:11:50,020 --> 00:11:50,980 that's your gig. 214 00:11:52,660 --> 00:11:54,880 Adam Curry: I forgot that. Yes, the future of podcasting, 215 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,100 another podcast. Hey, Daniel, how you doing? 216 00:11:57,580 --> 00:11:59,740 Daniel J. Lewis: I'm doing great. I just love what we're 217 00:11:59,740 --> 00:12:02,760 doing with podcasting 2.0 and as you know, I just love the 218 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:03,300 industry. 219 00:12:04,140 --> 00:12:09,420 Dave Jones: What did you so go 2004 was that? Was that earlier 220 00:12:09,420 --> 00:12:12,300 than you? Or when do you? How do you fit in that mix? Yeah, 221 00:12:12,300 --> 00:12:14,940 Daniel J. Lewis: for me, I didn't come into podcasts until 222 00:12:14,940 --> 00:12:18,720 oh five, because it was with the introduction of podcasts. Or as 223 00:12:18,900 --> 00:12:24,560 Steve Jobs said it back then, podcasting in iTunes 4.9 then my 224 00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:28,640 boss, an Apple fanboy, was all like, this podcast thing is so 225 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:31,160 incredible. You gotta check it out. I thought, Oh, another 226 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:34,940 thing from Apple. I didn't like Apple back then, so I checked it 227 00:12:34,940 --> 00:12:39,260 out, and I was hooked, because I was so burned out on talk radio. 228 00:12:39,260 --> 00:12:42,520 I had a long commute back then, and I was burned out on local 229 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:46,300 talk radio, the sports and news on the nines or whatever it was. 230 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:49,660 And then I discovered this world of podcasts where I could listen 231 00:12:49,660 --> 00:12:54,640 to exactly the information I wanted. And then at some point, 232 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:58,420 I realized I know how to do this same kind of thing. I was a web 233 00:12:58,420 --> 00:13:02,280 developer, web designer. I had some production background, and 234 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:05,760 eventually it took me two years to actually get going, because I 235 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:09,720 struggle with perfectionism, but eventually I just wanted to jump 236 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:12,780 in. And it took people to say what I'm sure Adam is thinking 237 00:13:12,780 --> 00:13:16,740 right now is, don't try to be perfect, just jump in and do it. 238 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:17,460 You're 239 00:13:17,460 --> 00:13:21,180 Adam Curry: a Hall of Famer, aren't you? I am. Yeah, right, 240 00:13:21,180 --> 00:13:22,880 yeah. Hall of Fame, 241 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,080 Dave Jones: our RSS and podcasting will cure you of 242 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:28,640 perfectionism very quickly 243 00:13:29,420 --> 00:13:32,900 Adam Curry: or kill you, as I was just talking with, with, 244 00:13:33,380 --> 00:13:37,580 with the guy from The Verge. And I'm like, that's the best part 245 00:13:37,580 --> 00:13:42,760 of podcasting. It wasn't all the pros. It was the, it was the, as 246 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:46,000 Apple would say, the crazy ones back in the day. That's what 247 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,840 made it interesting. When I hear Michael Butler going, I just 248 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:53,440 drank a six pack and I decided to crack the mic. 249 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,960 Dave Jones: Oh, that's old food bar Fridays and all the other 250 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:03,600 Yeah, it was good. Let me, let me talk about episodes.fm. For 251 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,120 just second, because, as I've struggled with that this week, 252 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:11,520 and I think it pertains to just the messiness of podcasting, the 253 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:16,140 you know, so this the the the forever, quote, unquote side 254 00:14:16,140 --> 00:14:17,280 project that we, that 255 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,360 Adam Curry: we're building, which you keep leaking out. I 256 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:21,740 didn't do that on purpose. 257 00:14:21,740 --> 00:14:26,660 Dave Jones: That was Spurlock. So Spurlock, I think what 258 00:14:26,660 --> 00:14:30,800 happens is, I think if I visualize Spurlock, he has no 259 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:32,300 life, none. 260 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:36,320 Adam Curry: He has none, 2000 screens in his in his cave, 261 00:14:36,980 --> 00:14:37,820 yeah, and he's 262 00:14:37,820 --> 00:14:39,800 Dave Jones: looking at it, you know, like, like in the matrix, 263 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,220 where it had all they would just stare at those screens with the 264 00:14:42,220 --> 00:14:45,220 green jump floating, flying down the screen, floating down. Yeah, 265 00:14:45,340 --> 00:14:47,800 I think that's what he just looks at, pod ping all days, 266 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:51,640 just float, just watching it, because he saw the, he saw the 267 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:56,560 pod pings come through and like, back channel me so the but, I 268 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,320 mean, I gotta test the stuff, you know. I can't, I can't hold 269 00:14:59,320 --> 00:14:59,620 it back. 270 00:14:59,740 --> 00:15:04,320 Adam Curry: I. Know, I know I'm actually, I'm, I love James 271 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:08,040 Cridland, who accidentally received logging credentials on 272 00:15:09,780 --> 00:15:13,320 in a group chat, and he is, and he hasn't even said anything 273 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,200 about it, you know, he's like, I'm just not gonna say anything. 274 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:20,040 I was immediately thinking, would, do you think Dave's 275 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,880 parsing the log to see if he actually logged in or not. 276 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:25,820 Dave Jones: No, I did not do because, yeah, that's what I 277 00:15:25,820 --> 00:15:29,180 told you. I was like. I was like, yeah, leave it to leave it 278 00:15:29,180 --> 00:15:33,980 to me to accidentally send login credentials for this unreleased 279 00:15:33,980 --> 00:15:38,240 product to the journal, to the podcast, journalist, that's a 280 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:39,320 great idea. 281 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:41,860 Adam Curry: Don't worry. Everybody will be uncloaking 282 00:15:41,860 --> 00:15:44,680 soon. We'll be it will be uncloaking soon. We will be all 283 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:47,500 right. So anyway, yes, pod episodes.fm, 284 00:15:48,580 --> 00:15:51,340 Dave Jones: yeah. So this, this is actually, I want your take on 285 00:15:51,340 --> 00:15:56,080 this too, Daniel, because you're the keeper of the of everything 286 00:15:56,080 --> 00:16:00,840 Apple directory adjacent and like the Pro. So the issue that 287 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:06,840 I ran into is this, this thing that we're building, it creates 288 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,660 feeds. Now, I mean, these are not, I mean, this is not a 289 00:16:09,660 --> 00:16:12,540 hosting platform. That's not what this is, but it does create 290 00:16:12,540 --> 00:16:19,560 feeds. And so these feeds have to, they have to get into 291 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:24,920 circulation somehow. And it's a very, it's a very quick process. 292 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,460 So it creates a feed, and these feeds need to be out there and 293 00:16:28,460 --> 00:16:32,000 subscribable. And of course, they are with an RSS URL 294 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:37,460 immediately. But then, you know, the issue is, then, okay, how do 295 00:16:37,460 --> 00:16:40,300 you present it to the world in a way where they can easily 296 00:16:40,300 --> 00:16:45,040 subscribe, which is always been the Achilles heel of podcasting. 297 00:16:45,580 --> 00:16:52,660 And so Nathan's episodes.fm I was like, Oh, this is, this is a 298 00:16:52,660 --> 00:16:55,840 godsend. I mean, this is great. I'm just gonna plug this thing 299 00:16:55,840 --> 00:17:02,460 in. And when, when you fire up a feed as a site. It's a side 300 00:17:02,460 --> 00:17:06,600 effect of this other thing, this feed pops out. Well, then I'll 301 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,600 just pump that through episodes.fm and then the 302 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:13,980 listener can use episodes.fm which is this beautiful user 303 00:17:13,980 --> 00:17:20,960 interface and and so easy. The problem is, you push this feed 304 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:25,700 over. Do you push this feed URL over to epso.fm, and this thing 305 00:17:25,700 --> 00:17:29,180 is a new feed. It's the world has never seen this thing 306 00:17:29,180 --> 00:17:34,280 before. You know, 30 seconds ago it didn't exist. So it's not in 307 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:39,320 any directories. It's not in any sort of distribution whatsoever. 308 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:44,020 So you're immediately going to be limited to only podcast apps 309 00:17:44,020 --> 00:17:50,860 that can support local ingestion of an RSS feed, or podcasts that 310 00:17:50,860 --> 00:17:53,800 pull from the index, because we're pod pinging it immediately 311 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:57,760 into the index, and the index ingests, you know, instantly, 312 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:03,960 instantly. So you but the but the the experience you get. And 313 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,840 this is not the fault of episodes of.fm this is the this 314 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:10,260 is just the problem of podcastings work. Yeah. The 315 00:18:10,500 --> 00:18:14,820 problem with podcast distribution is that the like 316 00:18:14,820 --> 00:18:19,080 the top two spots are Spotify and Apple podcasts. Those two 317 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:23,060 things are there. They have their own directories, and 318 00:18:23,060 --> 00:18:26,840 they're also gatekeepers. You have to create an account on 319 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:30,080 their system and then submit your feed to them, so you're 320 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:33,320 that feed is never going to be in there. So those two, those 321 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:36,680 first two links, the ones to everybody's familiar with, are 322 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:41,740 just going to result in in nothing. I mean, like Apple's 323 00:18:41,740 --> 00:18:44,800 gonna the apple link is gonna, is gonna break? 324 00:18:44,799 --> 00:18:47,199 Daniel J. Lewis: Yeah, well, there is a workaround for that, 325 00:18:47,259 --> 00:18:51,819 at least for Apple is okay. And some other apps do this too, 326 00:18:51,819 --> 00:18:55,659 where they have a website version. Uh, no. Even better 327 00:18:55,659 --> 00:19:02,099 than that, there is a, either it's a HTML or HTML. Sorry, not 328 00:19:02,279 --> 00:19:04,619 forget the HT part. We'll edit that out. Dot 329 00:19:04,619 --> 00:19:06,599 Adam Curry: htm. Yes, Daniel, it 330 00:19:06,599 --> 00:19:12,119 Daniel J. Lewis: is the you replace HTTPS with podcast. So 331 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:16,559 it's podcast colon and then the RSS Feed URL that will activate 332 00:19:16,559 --> 00:19:21,019 the podcast app. Even on right now I'm on the latest Mac OS 333 00:19:21,139 --> 00:19:24,739 that can access Apple podcasts through the browser, but it 334 00:19:24,739 --> 00:19:28,939 still launches my app and it prompts me to follow that RSS 335 00:19:28,939 --> 00:19:32,359 feed directly. And there are many other apps that support the 336 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:36,379 same kind of thing, where you just pass in the feed URL as 337 00:19:36,379 --> 00:19:40,899 some form of the app URL. It's not always the schema that's 338 00:19:40,899 --> 00:19:44,199 used sometimes it is just a straight URL, like, I think 339 00:19:44,259 --> 00:19:47,919 podcast attic does this, where, if you do podcast addict.com/i, 340 00:19:49,179 --> 00:19:52,299 think it might just be feed slash, and then it's the feed 341 00:19:52,299 --> 00:19:56,799 URL. It allows you to subscribe directly to that feed Spotify, 342 00:19:56,799 --> 00:19:58,179 of course, doesn't do that, 343 00:19:59,559 --> 00:20:03,659 Adam Curry: but you. Used to be with episodes.fm it would, and I 344 00:20:03,659 --> 00:20:06,119 think that's a change that was made, it would highlight 345 00:20:07,019 --> 00:20:11,519 browsers that use or that recognize this feed or have 346 00:20:11,519 --> 00:20:14,879 already subscribed. It was something especially for Live 347 00:20:14,879 --> 00:20:18,179 episodes now, now I still get the full list. It also used to 348 00:20:18,179 --> 00:20:22,339 also only support or only show apps that supported the live 349 00:20:22,339 --> 00:20:24,319 tag. I think that's a change that was made. 350 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:28,760 Dave Jones: The Yeah, okay, okay, yeah, for sure on that. 351 00:20:28,820 --> 00:20:32,720 That's okay. So what you said, Daniel, about the podcast link, 352 00:20:33,380 --> 00:20:38,360 I I see this. I saw that. This was with this was what was, what 353 00:20:38,360 --> 00:20:42,160 was happening with episodes.fm when you went to Apple podcast, 354 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:47,320 the problem is that I get Apple I get so I just did this on my 355 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,800 Linux machine. I went to one of these feeds, clicked through to 356 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:56,020 episodes.fm, and what I'm seeing is, here's the list I'm seeing. 357 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,440 G and again, this is not a this is not a criticism of 358 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:04,800 episodes.fm, this is just the the wonkiness of the way 359 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:12,120 podcasting is, is what I get is g Potter is the top spot Spotify 360 00:21:12,120 --> 00:21:14,520 is the next one that feeds not going to be in there. So what 361 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,520 it's going to do is it's going to do a cert it, it's going to 362 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:22,100 kick me to a Spotify search for the title, which is fine, 363 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:26,240 that's, that's a good way to fall back, but this, but the 364 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,300 feeds just not going to be there. So that's not the user is 365 00:21:29,300 --> 00:21:31,760 going to be confused. They're not going to know what to do. 366 00:21:32,180 --> 00:21:35,660 Then it gives ln beats Pocket Casts, and the fifth one down is 367 00:21:35,660 --> 00:21:39,260 Apple podcasts. But see, I'm, I'm on a Linux box, so this 368 00:21:39,260 --> 00:21:43,660 apple podcast link is just, is not going to, is not going to do 369 00:21:43,660 --> 00:21:47,800 anything. It's just going to, it's just going to fail. So that 370 00:21:47,860 --> 00:21:53,080 that's, that's the like, it only works. That only works if your 371 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:58,840 own device or on Mac, but the link still shows up for other 372 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:03,180 platforms. So you still get this confusing, like, I don't know 373 00:22:03,180 --> 00:22:08,100 what's happening here. Now, I'm sure Nathan has, you know, ways 374 00:22:08,100 --> 00:22:11,520 to, like, detect platform and work around some of these 375 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,460 issues. But if you look at the full if you just go down the 376 00:22:14,460 --> 00:22:17,460 full list and look at all the different options, you have a 377 00:22:17,460 --> 00:22:20,960 lot of exceptions. There's a lot of exceptions. There's more 378 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,680 exceptions than non exceptions, is what I'm saying. And 379 00:22:24,980 --> 00:22:26,900 Adam Curry: well, that's it. Our project has failed. 380 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,100 Dave Jones: Well, you know, I think it kind of brought up to 381 00:22:31,100 --> 00:22:38,120 me that that, you know, these, these two, these, the two 382 00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:46,540 biggest platforms of Spotify and Apple are they're acting as i 383 00:22:46,540 --> 00:22:49,120 They can do whatever. Yeah, they, yeah. They the 384 00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:55,540 gatekeepers. Because my, my feed, can't get into their 385 00:22:55,540 --> 00:23:02,700 system in a new in any way with, you know, like, it can, it can't 386 00:23:02,700 --> 00:23:04,800 get into their directory, is what I'm saying. 387 00:23:04,799 --> 00:23:07,019 Daniel J. Lewis: Okay, so you're saying, like, if you haven't 388 00:23:07,079 --> 00:23:10,019 intentionally submitted your feed, right, right, then it 389 00:23:10,019 --> 00:23:13,619 doesn't appear in these other apps that rely on Apple's 390 00:23:13,619 --> 00:23:15,719 catalog for their list of podcasts. 391 00:23:16,619 --> 00:23:19,919 Dave Jones: Yes, exactly, yes, exactly. And so, you know, it's, 392 00:23:19,979 --> 00:23:23,059 it would not be, and it's understandable. They can do 393 00:23:23,059 --> 00:23:25,399 whatever they want. They can run their directories and their 394 00:23:25,399 --> 00:23:27,619 platforms however they want, if they want to be 395 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:29,060 Adam Curry: a holes, yes, 396 00:23:30,619 --> 00:23:35,239 Dave Jones: but, but it, but what it leaves is this thing 397 00:23:35,239 --> 00:23:41,679 that's supposed to be open, that that really, that that isn't, 398 00:23:42,099 --> 00:23:42,579 you mean, like 399 00:23:42,579 --> 00:23:45,939 Adam Curry: YouTube podcasts, I mean, yeah, come on this. Yeah, 400 00:23:45,939 --> 00:23:48,519 that's what they're doing. They're breaking the system, and 401 00:23:48,519 --> 00:23:51,879 that forces everybody to go through their on ramp and go 402 00:23:51,879 --> 00:23:55,719 through Spotify on ramp and long term that will that's not a 403 00:23:55,719 --> 00:23:59,199 winning strategy, but right now, it's going to be pain. I think 404 00:23:59,679 --> 00:24:00,099 we 405 00:24:00,099 --> 00:24:02,699 Dave Jones: have this thing in, you know, in the in the open 406 00:24:02,699 --> 00:24:10,739 web, or in the on the web, we have links, you know, and then 407 00:24:11,639 --> 00:24:19,139 so, and they start with a URL scheme of HTTP or HTTPS, and 408 00:24:19,139 --> 00:24:24,439 that scheme is a trigger that that every platform handles the 409 00:24:24,439 --> 00:24:29,539 same way it always considers this a link to some sort of web 410 00:24:30,199 --> 00:24:35,899 request page. Podcasting just doesn't have this equivalent. It 411 00:24:35,899 --> 00:24:40,959 doesn't have a universal URL scheme that like the way it 412 00:24:40,959 --> 00:24:44,079 works on what you're saying with Daniel, the way it works on, on 413 00:24:44,139 --> 00:24:50,619 on the iPhone, is that podcast scheme. You know, it'll at 414 00:24:50,619 --> 00:24:55,419 least, this was my experience the lat, any app can register 415 00:24:55,479 --> 00:24:59,199 that podcast scheme. So when you're when you're hitting it, 416 00:24:59,439 --> 00:25:02,579 whatever the. Last app you installed, that's the one that 417 00:25:02,579 --> 00:25:03,119 catches it. 418 00:25:03,420 --> 00:25:05,280 Daniel J. Lewis: Yeah, here's an example of that. I also have 419 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:11,280 downcast installed on my Mac, and if I do it PC, colon, slash, 420 00:25:11,340 --> 00:25:14,640 slash, which is supposed to be for iTunes podcast. It's that 421 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,600 old that should open an apple podcast, but right now that 422 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,480 prompts me to open in downcast. What 423 00:25:21,479 --> 00:25:24,319 Adam Curry: is happening here, gentlemen? Is we have just 424 00:25:24,319 --> 00:25:28,759 scratched a very old scar and we have opened up the wound down to 425 00:25:28,759 --> 00:25:30,919 the bone. Yeah, 426 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,180 Dave Jones: and you know, this is okay, like Nathan says in the 427 00:25:35,180 --> 00:25:38,060 boardroom. I wasn't expecting a Linux user try to listen to an 428 00:25:38,060 --> 00:25:40,420 apple podcast. If they want to listen in a browser, they can 429 00:25:40,420 --> 00:25:44,440 listen on EFM. Okay, so let me, let me talk about that for a 430 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:50,200 second, because you're right. Nathan, in this see what, what 431 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,520 we're building is going to have a very specific use case, very 432 00:25:54,520 --> 00:26:00,600 specific and so the web is already where this thing is 433 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:04,200 going to be so it doesn't make it doesn't make any sense to 434 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:08,580 sort of like just go sideways over to another web player. Um, 435 00:26:08,820 --> 00:26:11,580 well, it could in certain circumstances, but, but not in 436 00:26:11,580 --> 00:26:16,260 this one. But the thing is, so I think ultimately, what I'm what 437 00:26:16,260 --> 00:26:22,880 I'm realizing, is that there's like, for well established 438 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:29,120 shows, first shows that have distribution, they're going to 439 00:26:30,740 --> 00:26:34,880 episodes.fm is going to just be a godsend. It's like, boom, 440 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:35,480 right through, 441 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,080 Adam Curry: yeah. If you have an iTunes ID, you mean well, or 442 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:39,320 even 443 00:26:39,319 --> 00:26:42,459 Dave Jones: just an HTTP Feed URL that is well known, that's 444 00:26:42,459 --> 00:26:46,659 in these directories, yeah, yeah, yeah. So if, if my, if my 445 00:26:46,659 --> 00:26:50,439 show was in Spotify, even you know, then that search would 446 00:26:50,439 --> 00:26:52,899 have returned it, and it would have been a seamless transition, 447 00:26:52,899 --> 00:26:58,119 like it would have been perfect, but for before new feed, yeah, 448 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:03,119 this use case, I think what the issue is is we're just going to 449 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,999 have to be opinionated about which apps we want people to 450 00:27:05,999 --> 00:27:07,499 use. Well, 451 00:27:07,500 --> 00:27:12,360 Daniel J. Lewis: there are two kind of solutions with this. One 452 00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:15,720 is that, yeah, you you be opinionated with it, and you 453 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,800 recommend those top apps. And anyone who uses something other 454 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,600 than those top apps is probably going to be familiar enough with 455 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,240 their own app to be able to search for the podcast, but 456 00:27:26,660 --> 00:27:30,560 telling people to search in their app, I am against that. 457 00:27:30,980 --> 00:27:34,100 The other approach that you could take, yeah, you can also 458 00:27:34,100 --> 00:27:36,440 do the smart kind of thing, and I've been doing that with a 459 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,800 feature of podgagement, where I display, I detect the device 460 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,180 that's visiting the page, and I display only what's compatible 461 00:27:43,180 --> 00:27:46,540 with that device. And there could be something there too, 462 00:27:46,540 --> 00:27:49,420 kind of like, what with what Nathan does with episodes.fm, 463 00:27:49,900 --> 00:27:53,860 where you can have it remember your selection, and that 464 00:27:53,860 --> 00:27:57,460 remembering the selection leads to the other thing do you know 465 00:27:57,460 --> 00:27:59,920 about blueberries? Subscribe on android.com. 466 00:28:01,539 --> 00:28:03,719 Dave Jones: Yeah, that's nice some JavaScript or something. 467 00:28:04,380 --> 00:28:06,900 Daniel J. Lewis: It's something that the app developers had to 468 00:28:06,900 --> 00:28:11,220 put into their app. I don't know exactly how it works, but it is 469 00:28:11,220 --> 00:28:14,100 something they had to put into their app, but it's super simple 470 00:28:14,100 --> 00:28:17,820 code that they can support. And what that allows it to do is 471 00:28:17,820 --> 00:28:22,220 that if someone visits subscribe on android.com it will open that 472 00:28:22,220 --> 00:28:27,920 podcast in their preferred app, or whatever app it is that they 473 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,560 have installed on their system, as long as it's supported. So 474 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:36,980 that kind of thing, that's what we need. But that, and also just 475 00:28:36,980 --> 00:28:40,100 this idea, going back to kind of an abandoned thing in 476 00:28:40,100 --> 00:28:44,140 podcasting, 2.0 is the fast follow idea. That's really what 477 00:28:44,140 --> 00:28:49,060 we need. Here is some way that people can quickly follow a 478 00:28:49,060 --> 00:28:53,560 podcast from whatever app, both clicking a link inside of that 479 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:58,840 app as well as opening really any podcast link, if possible, 480 00:28:59,500 --> 00:29:03,300 to automatically trigger opening that in their preferred app, and 481 00:29:03,300 --> 00:29:05,580 some of that, I know we're limited because of what you can 482 00:29:05,580 --> 00:29:09,000 do with the mobile operating system, but there are certain 483 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:13,140 things that you can do with these URL schemas and the the 484 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:19,140 JavaScript tricks or URL patterns to potentially remember 485 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,800 a favorite app, like what Nathan is doing with episodes.fm. 486 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,540 Dave Jones: Yeah, I think, I think this, you know, I don't 487 00:29:26,540 --> 00:29:31,340 expect this to be, I don't know, solved ever fully in a way 488 00:29:31,340 --> 00:29:34,880 that's satisfactory, which, you know, I think the solution we're 489 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:39,020 all looking for, if we could all just sit down in room with with 490 00:29:39,020 --> 00:29:42,040 the platforms, and say, you know, with the mobile platforms, 491 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,040 and say, okay, look, this is what we want. I think we would 492 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:49,720 all come up with something like, when I click on a podcast, 493 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,920 colon, slash, slash, link, it pops up a list and ask me which 494 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,800 installed players I want to which, which one of these do we 495 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,360 want to use that that's like, this beautiful, you know. A 496 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,920 system that we would all want. It's probably a pipe dream to 497 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,920 think that's ever going to happen any, you know, ever, but 498 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:13,260 especially not anytime soon. But you know, in the meantime, you 499 00:30:13,260 --> 00:30:16,380 know this, yeah, like you said, I think we're going to have to 500 00:30:16,380 --> 00:30:22,220 just be, not be afraid, to be opinionated about, hey, here's a 501 00:30:22,220 --> 00:30:26,900 bunch. Here's my use case. This, this, this thing I'm building, 502 00:30:27,020 --> 00:30:30,740 and I'm speaking as just general developer here, this thing I'm 503 00:30:30,740 --> 00:30:38,240 building has these needs. It needs live support or funding 504 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,500 tag support, or blah, blah, blah, you list all the things it 505 00:30:41,500 --> 00:30:46,060 needs, and then you say, okay, which apps fit that criteria? 506 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:50,260 Which apps do I, you know, do those things? And you say, Okay, 507 00:30:50,260 --> 00:30:52,420 well, these seven apps do that. Well, I'm just going to 508 00:30:52,420 --> 00:30:54,940 recommend those apps, and I'm just going to link out to those 509 00:30:54,940 --> 00:30:57,400 things, and I'm not even, I'm just not going to worry about 510 00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:01,440 Spotify or Apple or these other things, because, I mean, 511 00:31:01,500 --> 00:31:07,980 podcasters, clearly, you know, have Adam's listenership, he's 512 00:31:07,980 --> 00:31:12,360 moved from on no agenda. You've moved your a massive amount of 513 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:16,200 people from, from just standard apps, oh, yeah, pre installed 514 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:17,640 apps, over to other apps. 515 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:19,740 Adam Curry: Yeah. Thank you Apple for not updating. 516 00:31:21,779 --> 00:31:24,619 Dave Jones: Yeah. I mean, like, if you ask your listeners to 517 00:31:24,619 --> 00:31:29,239 consider using this other app, many of them will. And if you 518 00:31:29,239 --> 00:31:32,539 just give them that option when you link out, well, a lot of 519 00:31:32,539 --> 00:31:36,079 them will also just go get that app. That's, I think we're a 520 00:31:36,079 --> 00:31:38,959 little afraid to be opinionated, I guess, and so. And I'm 521 00:31:38,959 --> 00:31:41,199 learning to sort of live with that discomfort. 522 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:45,760 Adam Curry: I'm looking at the top apps for no agenda, pod 523 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,900 verse, 13% at number two. Podcast addicts, eight and a 524 00:31:49,900 --> 00:31:54,100 half. Overcast seven. Podcast guru, six. These are big 525 00:31:54,100 --> 00:31:56,680 numbers. I mean, they're smaller than Apple podcasts, which is 526 00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:02,460 34% and that's your change after, after this week, 527 00:32:03,900 --> 00:32:10,020 fountain, 4.6 of course, there's zero Spotify in there because 528 00:32:10,020 --> 00:32:13,140 we're not on Spotify, and it hasn't hurt me. 529 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:20,840 Dave Jones: Yeah, in because I think a lot of people don't mind 530 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:26,120 it, Spotify is, is like a podcast app of opportunity. I 531 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,840 don't think anybody ever goes chooses that as their first one. 532 00:32:30,380 --> 00:32:32,600 You know, it's convenient sometimes. 533 00:32:32,599 --> 00:32:36,679 Adam Curry: Well, you know, in other countries, like Italy, I 534 00:32:36,679 --> 00:32:41,499 know, as an example, Spotify really launched podcasting. They 535 00:32:41,499 --> 00:32:43,779 weren't really listening to podcasts. And these past two 536 00:32:43,779 --> 00:32:47,079 years, Spotify did a big Blitz. They got a lot of famous 537 00:32:47,079 --> 00:32:51,219 comedians, and they put them all on Spotify. So when people say, 538 00:32:51,279 --> 00:32:54,699 you on Spotify, and I say no, that you could see them go, Oh, 539 00:32:54,699 --> 00:32:59,739 okay. And I just say, No, we're on these other ones. But I 540 00:32:59,739 --> 00:33:03,299 agree, just we being opinionated is not a bad thing. 541 00:33:05,579 --> 00:33:08,519 Daniel J. Lewis: I think that I want to challenge that idea of 542 00:33:08,639 --> 00:33:12,239 it's not hurting me. And I did a whole episode about this once on 543 00:33:12,239 --> 00:33:15,659 the audacity to podcast that we really can't know that unless 544 00:33:15,659 --> 00:33:19,559 you have a parallel universe to split test things in, you really 545 00:33:19,559 --> 00:33:23,359 can't know. Are you missing audience? Because you've done in 546 00:33:23,359 --> 00:33:24,019 one platform. 547 00:33:24,140 --> 00:33:28,520 Adam Curry: I've done the A B and the A B. I only have one 548 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:30,800 metric. I was just helping someone with this thing. I have 549 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:35,060 one metric. Am I receiving enough value in return for the 550 00:33:35,060 --> 00:33:39,020 value I'm putting out there? We were on Spotify for a bit when 551 00:33:39,020 --> 00:33:41,800 they first launched. They ingested us. I had never asked 552 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:47,320 for it. Didn't even know it. And then, and then I discovered it, 553 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,820 and I said, I said, take it off. They took it off. And there were 554 00:33:51,820 --> 00:33:56,800 some people who said, Oh, you're no longer on Spotify. But what 555 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:58,780 didn't change, Daniel, is the value we 556 00:33:58,779 --> 00:34:01,259 Daniel J. Lewis: received, right? Because that's the metric 557 00:34:01,259 --> 00:34:03,119 that matters to you. In this case, that's 558 00:34:03,119 --> 00:34:05,519 Adam Curry: the only metric in podcasting that matters. 559 00:34:11,340 --> 00:34:14,040 Daniel J. Lewis: People value different things. So for some 560 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,220 people, the value is they just want a big audience. Like in my 561 00:34:17,220 --> 00:34:20,720 podcast, I teach this profit paradigm, which profit stands 562 00:34:20,720 --> 00:34:24,140 for popularity, relationships, opportunity, fun, income and 563 00:34:24,140 --> 00:34:28,280 tangibles so different ways that people can get value from their 564 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,520 audience, as well as give value to their audience through their 565 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,480 podcast. And so for some people, they just want to be popular. 566 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,760 They just want a big audience. They want their audience 567 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:42,040 listening in whatever app they want. But then there are the 568 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:42,520 others, 569 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,040 Adam Curry: and I would, and I would be okay with that, Daniel, 570 00:34:45,460 --> 00:34:50,080 if, if the if I could just be in any app people want to use, but 571 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:54,580 the fact that I need to sign a sign an agreement with both 572 00:34:54,580 --> 00:34:58,720 Apple and with Spotify that's already breaking the basic 573 00:34:58,720 --> 00:35:05,460 agreement. So I. As an American, I will not stand for that. Yeah, 574 00:35:05,460 --> 00:35:09,300 yeah. I'm telling you, that's the part that is pissing me off. 575 00:35:09,660 --> 00:35:13,680 It's like, that's the only thing. It's like, yeah, okay, 576 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:17,460 you want, you want to be Spotify, great, but don't force 577 00:35:17,460 --> 00:35:21,920 me to sign some kind of terms of service with you. That's not 578 00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:26,240 okay, that that's total horse crap. So now with Apple, and 579 00:35:26,240 --> 00:35:29,300 this is the one thing I'd love to still find a workaround for. 580 00:35:29,300 --> 00:35:33,920 For our project, you can subscribe manually to a podcast. 581 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:39,620 You can just input the feed into into Apple. Now, go ahead. 582 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,520 Daniel J. Lewis: There's a very good reason to do that for any 583 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:46,240 shows that are controversial or concerned that they might be de 584 00:35:46,240 --> 00:35:50,500 platformed in any way, because I keep harping on this since iOS 585 00:35:50,500 --> 00:35:55,660 14.5 you know that catastrophic event that came out since then, 586 00:35:55,660 --> 00:35:59,080 Apple no longer subscribes people directly to RSS feeds. 587 00:35:59,140 --> 00:36:03,120 Now, when you press subscribe or follow in Apple podcast, you are 588 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:07,980 connected to Apple's proxy of that podcast about that. So if 589 00:36:07,980 --> 00:36:12,420 Apple or the podcaster remove themselves from Apple podcast, 590 00:36:13,380 --> 00:36:16,440 the audience is disconnected from the podcast. 301, 591 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:20,720 redirects, do not save this. It is all about the audience is now 592 00:36:20,720 --> 00:36:24,320 following the listing, the catalog listing of the podcast. 593 00:36:24,500 --> 00:36:27,200 So like that whole thing that happened with Alex Jones was 594 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:32,960 before iOS 14.5 and back then when it happened, when Apple 595 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,360 kicked him out of Apple podcasts and Stitcher were really the 596 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:38,540 first people to kick him out. But when Apple did it, he didn't 597 00:36:38,540 --> 00:36:42,580 lose any of his existing Apple podcast audience at that time. 598 00:36:43,240 --> 00:36:44,860 If that happened today, 599 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,020 Adam Curry: because the app actually was subscribed to the 600 00:36:47,020 --> 00:36:48,400 feed and not to 601 00:36:49,900 --> 00:36:53,620 Daniel J. Lewis: happen today, though, he would lose his entire 602 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:58,600 apple podcast audience. So this is a big reason why anyone who's 603 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,440 concerned about freedom of speech or censorship, corporate 604 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,960 censorship, government censorship, for whatever reason, 605 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:08,880 they should not recommend subscribing from a catalog like 606 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,880 Apple and certainly not Spotify. Spotify has always been this 607 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:15,720 way, but Apple switched to being this way because Apple can stand 608 00:37:15,720 --> 00:37:18,480 between the audience. Apple could even prevent a single 609 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,720 episode from going out. We know 610 00:37:20,720 --> 00:37:23,600 Adam Curry: they do we know they do this. We know we know they do 611 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:27,500 it. We know that Spotify does it. Specific episodes are de 612 00:37:27,500 --> 00:37:28,220 platformed, 613 00:37:29,300 --> 00:37:31,160 Daniel J. Lewis: and they have if 614 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,920 Dave Jones: you're ahead, you know, if you're somebody who 615 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,580 listens to a lot of podcasts, or somebody who's familiar enough 616 00:37:37,580 --> 00:37:46,360 with podcasts to um, uh, to know what to do, to even subscribe to 617 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:53,020 one, then I feel like it's very difficult to just live in 618 00:37:53,020 --> 00:37:57,400 Spotify, because you're going to have so many instances where 619 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,200 either something you want is not on it, or you have a private 620 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:05,580 feed, or some it, it, I guess what I'm saying is it's it 621 00:38:05,580 --> 00:38:13,680 takes, it doesn't take much for everyone to to hit a roadblock 622 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,880 at some point where they have to get some other app. Now, whether 623 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,080 that's just the apple podcast default app, or the, you know, 624 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:24,320 YouTube default, whatever that might that's, you know, that's 625 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:30,740 fine, but it, it's, it seems like it's because Spotify is so 626 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:36,260 closed, gated, um, against anything that's, you can't use 627 00:38:36,260 --> 00:38:39,800 our private RSS feeds with it. So if, you know, if you have a a 628 00:38:39,860 --> 00:38:44,560 private, like membership feed, like I do for America this week. 629 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,380 It's a it's a private feed coming out of sub stack. I 630 00:38:47,380 --> 00:38:50,500 couldn't even use that in sub in Spotify if I wanted to, right? 631 00:38:50,620 --> 00:38:54,040 So it doesn't take much before you can get a barrier and have 632 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:55,540 to use some other app. Anyway. Let 633 00:38:55,540 --> 00:38:57,340 Adam Curry: me tell you something about human nature 634 00:38:57,340 --> 00:39:01,800 from historical perspective. Back in the 70s, growing up in 635 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:05,220 Europe, the Netherlands specifically, but it was the 636 00:39:05,220 --> 00:39:11,160 same for the for the BBC was the same for the German all public 637 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,400 broadcasters. So there were four radio stations in the 638 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:18,900 Netherlands, and one, I think there were 2am repeaters of what 639 00:39:18,900 --> 00:39:24,140 was already on the FM station. So the popular music station at 640 00:39:24,140 --> 00:39:28,580 the time Hilversum three, it would start at 7am it literally 641 00:39:28,580 --> 00:39:30,980 the signal would not be off. The signal beyond would go like, 642 00:39:31,100 --> 00:39:34,820 Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom Hill for some three Doom, Doom, Doom, 643 00:39:34,820 --> 00:39:38,300 they would just repeat until seven, and then at 1130 would go 644 00:39:38,300 --> 00:39:42,940 off the air. Now it's 24/7 and the pirate radio ships were in 645 00:39:42,940 --> 00:39:48,100 the North Sea playing the music that the kids wanted to hear. So 646 00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:53,800 we were listening to long wave. Not am long wave. You know, 647 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:59,380 that's basically, yeah, there you go, perfect timing, and 648 00:39:59,380 --> 00:40:02,820 you'll see it. And you'd have to retune, you have to kind of turn 649 00:40:02,820 --> 00:40:05,760 your body sometimes to get the signal, but at least we could 650 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:10,620 hear the music we wanted. And people will do all kinds of 651 00:40:10,620 --> 00:40:14,700 things to get the content they want. Now, the thing that is 652 00:40:14,700 --> 00:40:17,880 this elusive discovery mechanism, which I don't believe 653 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:20,300 in, in podcasting, because there's inherently no 654 00:40:20,300 --> 00:40:22,940 algorithms, maybe Spotify recommends some stuff or 655 00:40:22,940 --> 00:40:26,660 whatever. That's a different story. That's what platforms are 656 00:40:26,660 --> 00:40:29,480 good at, is figuring out what you want and recommending 657 00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:33,740 something to you. But in general, I found that people 658 00:40:33,740 --> 00:40:37,520 don't discover no agenda or any of our other podcasts. It's 659 00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:42,700 someone else saying, Hey, have you heard this podcast? No, can 660 00:40:42,700 --> 00:40:46,000 I get on Spotify? No, it's only on x, y or z. People will do 661 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:49,240 that. They will do that to get something that some their buddy 662 00:40:49,240 --> 00:40:52,240 has told them, or that they've been listening to previously, 663 00:40:52,240 --> 00:40:54,160 and they can't they'll do whatever. They'll do whatever 664 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:57,160 they want to get that content. There should be no fear about 665 00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:58,000 that at all. 666 00:40:59,679 --> 00:41:01,799 Dave Jones: Yeah, especially when it doesn't cost money, 667 00:41:02,399 --> 00:41:04,919 right? It's like, if some, if you say, Hey, you should go 668 00:41:04,919 --> 00:41:07,859 check out this show, and it's gonna, I see that it's gonna 669 00:41:07,859 --> 00:41:11,819 cost me some, some, some money. I may pause, but if it's free, 670 00:41:11,819 --> 00:41:16,799 and it's just doing a couple of things to jump downloading an 671 00:41:16,799 --> 00:41:19,319 app or something like that, I don't, I don't know that that's 672 00:41:19,319 --> 00:41:23,779 the he. It's just not that big of a barrier. It doesn't seem 673 00:41:23,839 --> 00:41:24,679 just too bad. 674 00:41:24,679 --> 00:41:28,459 Adam Curry: It's too bad. But, okay, whatever. Well, 675 00:41:28,460 --> 00:41:31,820 Dave Jones: the directory stuff like, there is no, there's no 676 00:41:31,820 --> 00:41:35,900 directory of blogs, no, you know, but somehow that there 677 00:41:35,900 --> 00:41:36,380 was, 678 00:41:36,380 --> 00:41:39,560 Adam Curry: it was called Google Reader, and it got ruined. It 679 00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,340 got taken down because, oh, we can't make money on it, 680 00:41:43,179 --> 00:41:46,539 Dave Jones: but somehow RSS feed readers are, you know, still 681 00:41:46,539 --> 00:41:50,559 kicking, going strong. Got a lot, got lots of loyal users. We 682 00:41:50,979 --> 00:41:56,559 podcasting. Podcasting has this idea of having directories. You 683 00:41:56,559 --> 00:42:03,119 know, obviously we have one. But the to me, the idea of having a 684 00:42:03,119 --> 00:42:05,939 podcast, maybe this is where the rubber meets the road. For me, 685 00:42:06,419 --> 00:42:11,999 the idea of having a podcast directory, but then it make 686 00:42:11,999 --> 00:42:18,899 making me have to sign up and agree to a EULA in order to put 687 00:42:18,899 --> 00:42:22,039 stuff in it. That's not a podcast direct. I mean, that's 688 00:42:22,099 --> 00:42:22,759 that's not, 689 00:42:24,620 --> 00:42:27,260 Adam Curry: it's not. We now know that we know what Spotify 690 00:42:27,260 --> 00:42:30,740 does, and now we know that Apple does the same, the exact same 691 00:42:30,740 --> 00:42:34,580 thing. They are ingesting your content just like YouTube does 692 00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,280 through the RSS feed, and then they're doing whatever they 693 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:43,120 want, right? They have interrupted that, that holy 694 00:42:43,240 --> 00:42:47,320 connection between the podcaster and the listener, this 695 00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,200 Dave Jones: is why we did this is why we've done so many of the 696 00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,260 things that we've done with the index, making the feed, making 697 00:42:53,260 --> 00:42:58,600 the database downloadable, you know, weekly, making it where 698 00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:04,200 it's instant ingestion. Because the the idea is, you want it to 699 00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:07,800 everything to be decentralized. You want there to be zero 700 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:12,600 barriers to being found, zero, you know, because it's like, if 701 00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:18,060 you if a, if an RSS feed is, excuse me, if a podcast feed is 702 00:43:18,060 --> 00:43:23,840 out, is out there, and it wants to be in the index, it's, boom, 703 00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:27,200 done. I mean, you don't just sign anything, you know. I mean, 704 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,300 we're gonna find you. We're gonna stick it in there. Whether 705 00:43:29,300 --> 00:43:31,700 you know, without your, you know, without your input anyway, 706 00:43:31,700 --> 00:43:35,240 and if you want it out, you can. But that's to me, that's a 707 00:43:35,240 --> 00:43:41,200 directory. Yes, that's an actual like discovery mechanism. If 708 00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:41,500 there's a 709 00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:43,240 Adam Curry: there's your discovery, right there's your 710 00:43:43,240 --> 00:43:45,280 discovery. That's your discovery, right there. 711 00:43:46,659 --> 00:43:49,059 Dave Jones: So I'm just griping now. No, 712 00:43:49,060 --> 00:43:53,320 Adam Curry: no, no, it's so this is actually good news, because 713 00:43:53,320 --> 00:44:00,280 this we can move into another topic here. I am delighted, 714 00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:05,700 absolutely delighted with the AI slop. Now I have a prayer. I'm 715 00:44:05,700 --> 00:44:09,540 going to be honest with you. My prayer is I would like all the 716 00:44:09,540 --> 00:44:12,840 social networks to be filled with AI slops that become 717 00:44:12,900 --> 00:44:17,400 unattractive and unusable. That is my and I'm not kidding. This 718 00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:21,680 is an actual prayer I do because I think it's so, so horrible. 719 00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:24,680 What's happening with social media? There's 720 00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:26,240 Dave Jones: probably a Catholic saint for that. 721 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:35,600 Adam Curry: We got to find him, and now we're seeing that the 722 00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:39,020 free hosting company, because there's really only one free 723 00:44:39,020 --> 00:44:44,620 hosting company, which is Spotify for podcasters, they are 724 00:44:44,620 --> 00:44:50,380 going to be filling up Spotify with so much AI slop. We don't 725 00:44:50,380 --> 00:44:53,860 even automatically ingest Spotify for podcasters anymore. 726 00:44:53,860 --> 00:44:54,280 Do we? 727 00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,460 Dave Jones: No now has to be submitted. No, exactly, it 728 00:44:57,460 --> 00:45:03,180 Adam Curry: has to be submitted. And so the. The irony of almost 729 00:45:03,180 --> 00:45:07,380 every everyone talk, oh, AI and podcasting, oh yeah, it's great, 730 00:45:07,380 --> 00:45:10,200 and I'm a show notes and everything that, what, what 731 00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:13,680 they're doing, AI podcast. Oh, we have to have tags for that. 732 00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:18,300 Oh no, we can't have that. Like, this is the best thing that 733 00:45:18,300 --> 00:45:20,960 could have ever happened, because this is not really 734 00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:24,560 getting submitted to the index. This is all all this nonsense is 735 00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:28,160 going to fill up Spotify with crap. And I could not be more 736 00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:32,000 happy about it. Going to be running after themselves. 737 00:45:32,060 --> 00:45:36,920 Daniel J. Lewis: Spotify wasn't already full of crap. Okay, 738 00:45:36,980 --> 00:45:38,180 Unknown: okay. Ding 739 00:45:40,219 --> 00:45:44,319 Dave Jones: is AI. Chad F says AI is slowly ruining value for 740 00:45:44,319 --> 00:45:46,719 value music, is it? Well, 741 00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:49,900 Adam Curry: that's really true, but I think that's really 742 00:45:49,900 --> 00:45:56,740 subjective. If, if you listen to a song and you like it, and for 743 00:45:56,740 --> 00:45:59,440 instance, I'll give you an example why I'm I'm not going to 744 00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:03,900 agree with that statement. Mo who is a who is, actually is a 745 00:46:03,900 --> 00:46:06,780 music producer. That's, that's what he was doing before I met 746 00:46:06,780 --> 00:46:11,760 him from mofax, he has been actually making some really good 747 00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:16,080 music with his own lyrics, and he's come up with these crazy, 748 00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:20,420 super prompts. And he sent me a couple of songs, and I had no 749 00:46:20,420 --> 00:46:24,020 idea it was AI. The vocals didn't sound your typical, you 750 00:46:24,020 --> 00:46:31,160 know, AI type vibe. I was like, I'm okay with that, if, if I 751 00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:34,100 want to, you know, I we all, hey, I listen. I danced and 752 00:46:34,100 --> 00:46:37,880 listened to disco. Yeah, come on. It was basically a that's 753 00:46:37,940 --> 00:46:40,840 basically it. That was the beginning of AI music. I mean, 754 00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:44,440 we went through this with, oh, it's not real drums. That's a 755 00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:47,440 drum machine. That's no good. It's ruining the music business. 756 00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:52,660 Well, arguably, no, no. So I don't think it's ruining value 757 00:46:52,660 --> 00:46:56,920 for value music at all. If it's a good song, it's a good song, 758 00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:00,420 it doesn't matter. You know, if I hit some washboards and 759 00:47:00,420 --> 00:47:04,980 buckets, or if I had ai do something, if I like it, then I 760 00:47:04,980 --> 00:47:07,860 like it. And if people don't like it, then I shouldn't be 761 00:47:07,860 --> 00:47:11,040 playing it. If they go, that's nasty. I can hear it's aI I 762 00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:14,460 don't like it. How is that ruining everything? If people, I 763 00:47:14,460 --> 00:47:18,780 think there will be AI, music, podcasts, I see no reason why 764 00:47:18,780 --> 00:47:19,560 there wouldn't be. 765 00:47:20,820 --> 00:47:21,860 Daniel J. Lewis: Let's dive into that. 766 00:47:24,260 --> 00:47:28,280 Adam Curry: That was funny, Daniel. Let's unpack this. Yes, 767 00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:31,460 exactly. Let's dive into, let's do a deep dive on that. Yes, 768 00:47:31,460 --> 00:47:37,160 exactly. And, I mean, I like all of these notebook LM podcasts 769 00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:40,100 because they become so recognizable and they're, I 770 00:47:40,100 --> 00:47:43,660 mean, some of them are actually it's hilarious. I mean, I can, I 771 00:47:43,660 --> 00:47:47,200 can listen to. It's limited, because now everyone's sending 772 00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:51,340 me, hey, look what I did. I put raccoon butt in there. Eight 773 00:47:51,340 --> 00:47:55,300 minutes on raccoon, but it's funny for 30 seconds, and then 774 00:47:55,300 --> 00:47:58,780 it's not funny anymore. But as these voices will become 775 00:47:58,780 --> 00:48:02,760 changeable, I listened to, I listened to an AI podcast. I 776 00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,520 listened to, we talked about that on the last show. What is 777 00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:06,060 it called 778 00:48:07,020 --> 00:48:10,680 Dave Jones: the news and tech news or something. Hold 779 00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:13,140 Adam Curry: on a second. Let me. Let me open my secret project. 780 00:48:14,460 --> 00:48:19,080 No, my secret project. So will tell me exactly what that is. 781 00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:29,240 It's um, here. Now, where is it? Uh, oh, boy. Uh, that's 782 00:48:29,240 --> 00:48:33,680 interesting. I don't see it now. The projects broke. Dave, no, 783 00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:33,860 did 784 00:48:33,859 --> 00:48:36,139 Dave Jones: it break? No, it wouldn't surprise me. 785 00:48:36,140 --> 00:48:38,300 Adam Curry: No, it's working. It's working, but I just don't 786 00:48:38,300 --> 00:48:43,840 see it in here, the automated daily, okay? And, and so here's 787 00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:50,980 someone who takes news stories and inputs these new stories, 788 00:48:50,980 --> 00:48:53,980 and it's not these two offensive deep dive people. It's a pretty 789 00:48:53,980 --> 00:48:59,320 unoffensive, non offensive voice, and it's just giving me a 790 00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:02,100 summary of these news stories and and I kind of like it. 791 00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:05,820 There's zero personality. Is just, it's just reading it to 792 00:49:05,820 --> 00:49:09,600 me, which is what I suggested months ago. I said, How come my 793 00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:13,200 app can't i can't subscribe to a blog, and the app just reads me 794 00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:17,880 that blog. That'd be fine. So I don't have a problem. I don't 795 00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:22,280 see, you know, also this whole tagging AI content. I mean, come 796 00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:29,540 on, what's next? Tag Photoshop jobs. I don't see it as a huge 797 00:49:29,540 --> 00:49:32,480 issue. Personally, I like the fact that it's filling up 798 00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:36,680 Spotify with crappy podcast, because after the novelty wears 799 00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:40,040 off, they're crappy. It's not it's the content. 800 00:49:41,179 --> 00:49:44,739 Daniel J. Lewis: What it does help is makes the authentic 801 00:49:44,859 --> 00:49:48,339 podcast really stand out. Like I went on a rant about this in one 802 00:49:48,339 --> 00:49:51,939 of my episodes recently, I like being in the kitchen and cooking 803 00:49:51,939 --> 00:49:55,059 and stuff. And whenever I go onto YouTube to try and find the 804 00:49:55,059 --> 00:49:59,259 best whatever potato peeler, I find all of these videos that 805 00:49:59,259 --> 00:50:02,579 are just AI. Generated crap where they just looked at what 806 00:50:02,579 --> 00:50:05,939 has the top ratings on Amazon. Let's promote it with affiliate 807 00:50:05,939 --> 00:50:08,519 links. Let's do this generic voiceover that tells you really 808 00:50:08,519 --> 00:50:12,059 nothing. So there's so much of that out there that when I see a 809 00:50:12,059 --> 00:50:16,859 video of someone actually using the product, their opinion, to 810 00:50:16,859 --> 00:50:22,519 me, skyrockets, because they are a real person, actually using 811 00:50:22,519 --> 00:50:25,279 it, not just talking about it because it's popular, but 812 00:50:25,279 --> 00:50:28,639 they're sharing their opinion and experience. And let's so 813 00:50:28,639 --> 00:50:29,119 much more. 814 00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:31,940 Adam Curry: Let's be honest, the algo didn't recommend those to 815 00:50:31,940 --> 00:50:35,600 you. Had to do some work to find it. Am I correct? Yes, yeah. 816 00:50:35,660 --> 00:50:38,360 Usually like second page, and this is I went through this 817 00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:43,900 with, with Didi Stein. You know, the whole P Diddy thing. So I'm, 818 00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:50,080 I'm looking for information on Diddy, and, whoa, there must be 819 00:50:50,140 --> 00:50:57,220 1000 AI generated YouTube channels about Diddy. And 820 00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:00,160 because you're watching it, and you hear the voice like, okay, 821 00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:03,240 you know, it's like, I know this is not really a person speaking, 822 00:51:03,240 --> 00:51:07,800 but I can handle that. And then the images just, you know, they 823 00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:12,060 rotate, like, I've just saw that. It's all B roll. And after 824 00:51:12,180 --> 00:51:15,780 about 45 minutes, like, okay, no one has anything. This is all 825 00:51:15,780 --> 00:51:21,140 crap. It's all from headlines, until I finally found one, one 826 00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:23,300 person who I thought was, you know, had had some good 827 00:51:23,300 --> 00:51:27,140 information. I could follow them, but the AI stuff, it 828 00:51:27,140 --> 00:51:31,040 actually, it's a big turnoff. It's a big turnoff. It's, it's, 829 00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:34,820 it's slop. It is slop. All of it, I just like saying slop. 830 00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,320 Dave Jones: You've got me so completely distracted debugging 831 00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:42,260 the secret project. It's working. 832 00:51:42,260 --> 00:51:46,000 Adam Curry: It's working. Okay, I just don't. Don't worry. I did 833 00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:46,240 find 834 00:51:46,240 --> 00:51:47,260 Dave Jones: a bug, though. I did find 835 00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:51,820 Adam Curry: a bug. Don't debug on the show man, 836 00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:57,700 Dave Jones: air funding, URL does not have a default value. 837 00:51:57,700 --> 00:51:58,660 That's okay. 838 00:52:00,159 --> 00:52:02,519 Adam Curry: Okay, that's why I didn't show up. Okay, yeah, 839 00:52:02,700 --> 00:52:04,800 Dave Jones: I got I got you, I got you live debugging. 840 00:52:05,340 --> 00:52:08,580 Adam Curry: So do we need to talk about AI podcast anymore? 841 00:52:08,580 --> 00:52:11,340 Have we handled this? Have we all given our please? No, okay, 842 00:52:11,340 --> 00:52:15,180 please, no. Pod ID. Pod ID needs to be discussed. 843 00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:18,839 Dave Jones: Yes. Have you seen this? Daniel, seen pod ID? 844 00:52:19,140 --> 00:52:21,500 Daniel J. Lewis: Talking with Russell, a little bit about it. 845 00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:25,460 Can you explain it for me, as well as anyone else who's 846 00:52:25,460 --> 00:52:26,120 unfamiliar? 847 00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:34,160 Dave Jones: I think I can. Yes, it's so well. I mean, it's it's 848 00:52:34,580 --> 00:52:40,540 multifaceted. So, oh, I just saw Russell harrows picture. I have 849 00:52:40,540 --> 00:52:41,620 not seen that before. I 850 00:52:41,620 --> 00:52:45,100 Adam Curry: saw a picture. I saw a picture of his bloody ear. Oh, 851 00:52:45,580 --> 00:52:51,040 yeah. He posted on the he had, he had some kind of, is like a 852 00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:55,720 brain operation, and he had to go to the ER, he posted all this 853 00:52:55,720 --> 00:52:59,080 on the on podcasting Next, on social, and they said I thought 854 00:52:59,080 --> 00:52:59,200 he 855 00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:00,960 Dave Jones: may have done a speech in Pennsylvania. Look, 856 00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:02,580 they 857 00:53:02,700 --> 00:53:06,180 Adam Curry: actually look worse than Trump's ear. And he did the 858 00:53:06,180 --> 00:53:08,580 right thing. He says, you know, don't click on this unless you 859 00:53:08,580 --> 00:53:11,400 can handle blood. I'm like, oh, man, 860 00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:15,480 Dave Jones: of course, he's baiting you at that point. How 861 00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:15,660 could 862 00:53:15,660 --> 00:53:17,400 Adam Curry: I not? It's like, this has got to be some 863 00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:20,460 cheesecake. Cheesecake. 864 00:53:21,780 --> 00:53:29,300 Dave Jones: Okay? So pod, pod id.org. Is pod id.org. Is, well, 865 00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:32,960 let me, I'm trying to figure out where to start. Okay, the person 866 00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:37,340 tag. Let's start with the person tag. The person tag is a very 867 00:53:37,340 --> 00:53:46,900 simple tag, sort of it has you can define a name, an h ref, 868 00:53:47,740 --> 00:53:54,640 which is a web link to the to some place on the web that is 869 00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:57,520 associated with this person, maybe their home page, or their 870 00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:02,040 business, or whatever this So there's an A, there's a href, 871 00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:07,020 the person's name, and an image, a link to an image of the 872 00:54:07,020 --> 00:54:11,580 person, like a bug, an avatar. And then you can define a role 873 00:54:12,420 --> 00:54:16,200 that they're going to be on the show, like a guest host, the 874 00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:20,960 audio engineer, whatever. So that's the person tag, and then 875 00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:26,480 you have, so then pod ID is something that that Russell 876 00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:32,360 created as sort of a layer over the top of the person tag, and 877 00:54:32,420 --> 00:54:38,420 that is, I'm thinking of it like Gravatar for podcasting that 878 00:54:38,780 --> 00:54:41,620 that may not be fair, but that's, That's kind of the way I 879 00:54:41,620 --> 00:54:45,160 think about this, I think, and this is what I think he's doing. 880 00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:52,600 I think he is crawling all of the podcasts. I don't know how 881 00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:55,060 he determines which ones to crawl and which ones not to or 882 00:54:55,060 --> 00:54:58,900 if he's crawling all 4 million. I don't know what he's how many 883 00:54:58,900 --> 00:55:01,920 he's doing. You. But he's caught crawling through tons of 884 00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:09,540 podcasts to find person tags, and then he's sort of bringing 885 00:55:09,540 --> 00:55:13,860 those in and making them searchable through pod id.org 886 00:55:14,580 --> 00:55:17,340 but then, but what you have to do is you have to sign up, sort 887 00:55:17,340 --> 00:55:22,760 of like Gravatar. You have to sign up and then put in your, 888 00:55:24,020 --> 00:55:27,320 you know, like your email address and and your link to 889 00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:30,980 your website and some stuff, some identifying information. 890 00:55:30,980 --> 00:55:36,680 And then, then pod ID will associate you with these 891 00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:40,900 different person tags that have appeared across the corpus of 892 00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:47,080 feeds. So then, when people are using the pod id.org API, they 893 00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:51,640 can find all easily find all of your appearances based on a hash 894 00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:54,400 of the href or a hash of your email address. 895 00:55:59,199 --> 00:56:02,939 Daniel J. Lewis: It seems interesting, and still, though, 896 00:56:02,939 --> 00:56:08,819 I wonder, do we need a third party service to do that? 897 00:56:10,139 --> 00:56:12,359 Because, like, you think of Gravatar, not everything 898 00:56:12,359 --> 00:56:15,179 supports Gravatar. Some places, you have to upload your image 899 00:56:15,179 --> 00:56:18,359 manually. Some of them, you it's frustrating that you can't 900 00:56:18,359 --> 00:56:20,899 upload your image, and the only way you can change your image is 901 00:56:20,899 --> 00:56:24,919 by going to gravatar and creating an account. I think 902 00:56:24,919 --> 00:56:28,459 though hot ID, at least from my understanding what you've said 903 00:56:28,459 --> 00:56:33,199 and what Russell has said is, seems like it's an optional 904 00:56:33,199 --> 00:56:36,619 third party service, kind of like episodes.fm that someone 905 00:56:36,619 --> 00:56:40,959 could use if they want to, and if they don't want to, then they 906 00:56:40,959 --> 00:56:43,419 don't need to go over there and sign up. Here's 907 00:56:43,420 --> 00:56:47,320 Adam Curry: my question. I would like to see some numbers on the 908 00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:52,300 use case of how important it is for people to be able to find 909 00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:57,280 all the other podcasts this person appeared on. I have a 910 00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:01,740 feeling that is a very, very low number. This, to me, sounds like 911 00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:06,540 it was created by people who like this functionality and need 912 00:57:06,540 --> 00:57:11,700 it for research purposes. I'm not sure it's a it's a user use 913 00:57:11,700 --> 00:57:13,380 case. One 914 00:57:13,380 --> 00:57:15,180 Daniel J. Lewis: The tough thing with it is it really its 915 00:57:15,180 --> 00:57:18,660 effectiveness really depends on people actually populating the 916 00:57:18,660 --> 00:57:21,680 person tag. Well, that's for sure. Like, if I wanted to, 917 00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:24,740 since I've been a guest on a lot of podcasts in the past, if I 918 00:57:24,740 --> 00:57:28,100 wanted to create a quick archive of here all of the episodes I've 919 00:57:28,100 --> 00:57:31,520 ever been on, I can't do that by searching the person tag, 920 00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:34,220 because not all of those podcasts have searched the 921 00:57:34,220 --> 00:57:35,360 person tag or used it. 922 00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:40,060 Dave Jones: Okay, now I've got this is interesting. So when I 923 00:57:40,060 --> 00:57:45,760 first signed up for pod ID this morning. I didn't see initially. 924 00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:49,000 There was nothing there, and he said they crawl every five 925 00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:57,460 hours. And so now I've gone back and it says you have maybe a, c 926 00:57:57,460 --> 00:58:01,260 says you may be featured on these episodes. And so I've got 927 00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:09,420 1234, I've got four maybes and one definite. And it says we 928 00:58:09,420 --> 00:58:12,600 matched you on these podcast and episodes. And it says podcasting 929 00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:17,640 2.0 so that one's automatic. It found me immediately there. And 930 00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:20,780 then there's other there's these other four, and they're all 931 00:58:20,780 --> 00:58:24,380 things that I've they're all feeds that I've done. Yeah, I 932 00:58:24,380 --> 00:58:27,440 don't know that I even put the person tag in those. Here's what 933 00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:29,600 Adam Curry: I here's Okay. So first of all, a centralized 934 00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:34,340 resource is just not a good idea, period. One of our biggest 935 00:58:34,340 --> 00:58:37,760 fears, if Dave and I talk about stuff even jokingly, it's like, 936 00:58:37,940 --> 00:58:41,320 dude, how do we make sure this thing, this index, continues, 937 00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:45,400 because we're gonna die. We're going to die. I hate to tell you 938 00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:48,640 all we're gonna die now. We'll be partying in heaven. This is 939 00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:51,640 the good news, but we're gonna die. A plan for that, plan for 940 00:58:51,820 --> 00:58:55,180 that so, but so with this plans, you know, we have the with, 941 00:58:55,180 --> 00:58:58,720 there's a lot of different plans, but in in general, Dave 942 00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:02,940 goes, a lot of problems happen, a lot of problems with a lot of 943 00:59:02,940 --> 00:59:07,080 projects and a lot of apps. That's the index. So now, if we 944 00:59:07,080 --> 00:59:10,500 bootstrap all kinds of other centralized things on top of it, 945 00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:14,760 there's your main problem. What I find interesting, and this is 946 00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:20,540 what kind of piqued my interest. And so let me step back. It's a 947 00:59:20,540 --> 00:59:26,300 display purposes thing. I will put in whatever Daniel J Lewis 948 00:59:26,300 --> 00:59:29,660 wants me to put in. I usually just select a picture and put 949 00:59:29,660 --> 00:59:33,380 that into the person tag, and I know that apps that support this 950 00:59:33,380 --> 00:59:36,380 will show the picture that I chose, which is, I love having 951 00:59:36,380 --> 00:59:38,600 that control, because I can choose the worst picture or the 952 00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:41,740 best picture. Oh, it's all up to me, I, after all, control my 953 00:59:41,740 --> 00:59:47,440 feed and whatever link, and it may be something that Daniel 954 00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:51,340 wants to promote today and which may be different from yesterday, 955 00:59:51,580 --> 00:59:54,400 and he may not want to have to update some centralized thing 956 00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:57,580 that changes everything. So I like the fact that there's a lot 957 00:59:57,580 --> 01:00:01,500 of flexibility, and it's for that episode. Code in the feed 958 01:00:01,500 --> 01:00:06,060 that I'm producing that I want to have look a certain way in 959 01:00:06,060 --> 01:00:08,580 the apps. I want that information to be passed 960 01:00:08,580 --> 01:00:13,560 through. What I find compelling about what Russell has done is I 961 01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:18,240 wouldn't mind having a resource that I can go to and say, what 962 01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:22,160 other podcasts has this person appeared on and because he's 963 01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:27,740 already claimed to be scraping, you know, transcripts and doing 964 01:00:27,740 --> 01:00:31,520 all kinds of stuff, that could be a valuable research tool. 965 01:00:33,140 --> 01:00:35,600 Daniel J. Lewis: And that thing does already exist, like with 966 01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:36,320 podchaser. 967 01:00:37,580 --> 01:00:40,600 Adam Curry: Yeah, well, I've never used podchaser, so So I 968 01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:43,900 wouldn't know. Well, there you go. There's kind of your answer. 969 01:00:43,900 --> 01:00:47,380 So is it really something that's necessary to have this 970 01:00:47,380 --> 01:00:50,800 centralized resource and the pain? Because it's painful, it's 971 01:00:50,860 --> 01:00:54,160 look how much effort it took. Okay, we had some early 972 01:00:54,160 --> 01:00:57,220 adopters, but it's been very painful to get the adoption of 973 01:00:57,220 --> 01:01:03,480 the index to be seen as, as a as a valid thing. You know where, 974 01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:06,780 where you can go, and you can get numbers that you that are be 975 01:01:06,780 --> 01:01:10,140 valuable if you're looking for you know what happened the last 976 01:01:10,140 --> 01:01:15,180 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, can I? Can I find this podcast for 977 01:01:15,180 --> 01:01:19,140 sure? You know all of these things. It's taken years now to 978 01:01:19,140 --> 01:01:22,640 do that for individuals and have all the individual content 979 01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:27,560 producers, I don't know. I mean, I don't know there was pod ping 980 01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:31,580 made things a lot easier for us and having big hosting companies 981 01:01:31,580 --> 01:01:35,240 jump in. But you know, you literally have to have everybody 982 01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:38,720 retool for this. I It seems like a really heavy lift. 983 01:01:39,559 --> 01:01:41,979 Dave Jones: Okay, so here, I like Go ahead, Daniel, 984 01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:44,980 Daniel J. Lewis: this big problem that we're facing is 985 01:01:44,980 --> 01:01:48,220 basically this war between centralized and decentralized, 986 01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:52,240 and that happens every day in podcasting, because podcast 987 01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:57,940 consumption and distribution are decentralized, but discovery is 988 01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:02,340 basically centralized, because discovery typically happens in a 989 01:02:02,340 --> 01:02:06,600 way inside the apps, and so it is centralized to whatever 990 01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:09,780 catalog that app is using. That's the centralization that 991 01:02:09,780 --> 01:02:14,160 I'm talking about here. So this idea of pod ID or pod chaser or 992 01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:18,900 IMDb or anything like that, those are just other centralized 993 01:02:18,900 --> 01:02:22,880 sources of information that maybe does need to be 994 01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:25,640 centralized, but then we're trying to make it fit in with a 995 01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:27,140 decentralized system. 996 01:02:29,780 --> 01:02:33,740 Dave Jones: I'm sorry. Russell has put in some more information 997 01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:40,480 since I last looked at podcast index dot social about this, and 998 01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:44,320 he's so I've got a little bit more background here. He he's 999 01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:49,180 saying that they use pod ping, they watch pod ping, and then 1000 01:02:49,180 --> 01:02:51,700 they just parse feeds that come through with POD ping, and 1001 01:02:51,700 --> 01:02:57,040 that's how they look for new person tax. That's cool. That's 1002 01:02:57,040 --> 01:03:02,580 a great use of pod ping. A like that is great. And again, it's 1003 01:03:02,580 --> 01:03:05,940 so efficient. You're not not having to go back and, you know, 1004 01:03:05,940 --> 01:03:08,940 just like scrape, scrape the whole universe every all the 1005 01:03:08,940 --> 01:03:10,620 time. Perfect. Perfect. And 1006 01:03:10,620 --> 01:03:14,100 Adam Curry: maybe, and maybe, when a pod ping comes through 1007 01:03:14,100 --> 01:03:18,540 with a different link, or to image, or a different link to an 1008 01:03:18,540 --> 01:03:23,720 h ref in the pod thing. Add it to the record. Don't replace, 1009 01:03:23,780 --> 01:03:24,380 but add. 1010 01:03:25,280 --> 01:03:31,160 Dave Jones: I think what Russell's doing is creating. I 1011 01:03:31,160 --> 01:03:36,740 think this is mine. This is my gut. Is what he is creating is a 1012 01:03:36,740 --> 01:03:43,180 way, is a tool for the host, for hosting companies to use to find 1013 01:03:43,180 --> 01:03:49,360 to help their customers, find people to put into person tags 1014 01:03:50,020 --> 01:03:54,940 so that I can say, Okay, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna have a guest 1015 01:03:54,940 --> 01:03:58,120 on my show, and I'm in the dashboard of a hosting company, 1016 01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:01,500 and I'm like, okay, this person is, you know, I'm gonna have 1017 01:04:01,500 --> 01:04:05,640 Daniel J Lewis on here. So I'm typing Daniel J and then it's 1018 01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:09,600 gonna search pod, pod id.org, in the background, and find some 1019 01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:12,600 some hits. They're like, Oh yeah, that's, that's him. So I 1020 01:04:12,600 --> 01:04:16,560 hit it. And then it pulls in and just base, because it already 1021 01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:20,180 has seen your person tag on other places. It's gonna give 1022 01:04:20,180 --> 01:04:25,220 you options to just go ahead and pop that right into your new to 1023 01:04:25,220 --> 01:04:29,300 your new episode tonight, like that. That's cool. Yeah, 1024 01:04:29,840 --> 01:04:32,300 Daniel J. Lewis: that's providing a service, an agency 1025 01:04:32,300 --> 01:04:35,900 level service, to these providers, so that the providers 1026 01:04:35,900 --> 01:04:39,620 can make an easier experience for the podcasters. I'm all for 1027 01:04:39,620 --> 01:04:40,720 that doesn't listen 1028 01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:42,520 Adam Curry: notes, provide that API as well. 1029 01:04:43,540 --> 01:04:46,000 Dave Jones: Listen notes, the for the Listen notes, 1030 01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:48,700 Adam Curry: pod chaser, pod chaser, yeah, yes. 1031 01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:51,220 Daniel J. Lewis: Or provide listen notes might actually as 1032 01:04:51,220 --> 01:04:53,560 well I don't write, remember, right? So these services 1033 01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:55,300 Adam Curry: do exist. So this 1034 01:04:55,300 --> 01:04:58,360 Dave Jones: is cool. This is like, this would be a service 1035 01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:01,980 like, this is a great. Tool, because this is a service like 1036 01:05:01,980 --> 01:05:06,780 pod chaser, but it is, but it is based on the dis, decentralized, 1037 01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:12,420 non owned data of, I mean, the way pod chaser works is they 1038 01:05:12,420 --> 01:05:17,100 had, they just have people like, hoofing it, like just doing, 1039 01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:22,040 like, manually inputting stuff, I don't know. Yeah, they had a 1040 01:05:22,040 --> 01:05:23,240 farm of people. They 1041 01:05:24,500 --> 01:05:26,420 Adam Curry: should look at pod ping. What are they thinking? 1042 01:05:26,540 --> 01:05:27,380 Well, what Russell 1043 01:05:27,380 --> 01:05:32,180 Dave Jones: essentially created was a, was a, a a clone of pod 1044 01:05:32,180 --> 01:05:36,980 chaser, but that is based on actual feed, structured feed 1045 01:05:36,980 --> 01:05:41,860 data that nobody owns, which is beautiful. And then, you know, 1046 01:05:41,860 --> 01:05:44,260 and it's, it's a centralized service, yes, but it's a 1047 01:05:44,260 --> 01:05:50,380 centralized service made to to facilitate ease the easy use of 1048 01:05:50,380 --> 01:05:52,960 this data by other centralized services, which are the hosting 1049 01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:55,300 companies. I mean, hosting companies are centralized as 1050 01:05:55,300 --> 01:05:58,900 well. I mean, they're an aggregate of tons of feeds and 1051 01:05:58,900 --> 01:06:03,840 that they control. So, I mean, as long I think it's cool, man. 1052 01:06:03,840 --> 01:06:07,440 I mean, I don't know that we Ness. I don't know that we have 1053 01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:08,880 to change the person tag. I 1054 01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:12,120 Adam Curry: don't think he's suggesting that. Is he? He 1055 01:06:12,120 --> 01:06:13,020 started off 1056 01:06:13,020 --> 01:06:15,240 Dave Jones: suggesting it, but I'm not sure where we are on 1057 01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:19,020 that yet. Oh, because I thought it was clear, go ahead. I don't 1058 01:06:19,020 --> 01:06:24,860 mind putting in some sort of hash, like a hash of something. 1059 01:06:25,220 --> 01:06:27,500 But at the same time, I think I feel like there's already enough 1060 01:06:27,500 --> 01:06:31,340 data in the person tag where you could just detachable already, 1061 01:06:31,340 --> 01:06:36,080 like, so, okay, let, let's everybody wants a hash, you 1062 01:06:36,080 --> 01:06:39,560 know, because they want a universal ID, a unique ID for 1063 01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:43,660 each for each person tag. But you could do it this way. You 1064 01:06:43,660 --> 01:06:49,720 could, you can recreate this this way. Daniel J Lewis has two 1065 01:06:50,380 --> 01:06:56,080 sort of identities that he wants to use. One is as maybe a, you 1066 01:06:56,080 --> 01:06:58,780 know, a podcast consultant, and another one is, in his personal 1067 01:06:58,780 --> 01:07:04,680 capacity, his consultant identity is has a specific href 1068 01:07:05,100 --> 01:07:10,440 and a specific by a pig avatar and the name Daniel J Lewis. His 1069 01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:14,880 personal capacity has a different href, a different 1070 01:07:15,060 --> 01:07:19,860 picture URL, and also the exact same name, Daniel J Lewis, 1071 01:07:20,580 --> 01:07:27,500 though, if you just hash the entire tag, minus the minus the 1072 01:07:27,500 --> 01:07:32,060 the role, if you just hash those three things, the name, the 1073 01:07:32,060 --> 01:07:36,860 picture, URL and the href, you get a unique you get two 1074 01:07:36,860 --> 01:07:41,320 different values. One is going to be his personal, and one's 1075 01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:46,120 going to be his professional. And you could very much pump 1076 01:07:46,120 --> 01:07:50,860 that in, you know, into a centralized service like pod 1077 01:07:50,860 --> 01:07:54,520 id.org, and then, and then, when somebody tries to find Daniel J 1078 01:07:54,520 --> 01:07:57,160 Lewis, they'll see both of those identities, and they'll just 1079 01:07:57,160 --> 01:07:59,860 choose the one that's appropriate. Like, I don't, I 1080 01:07:59,860 --> 01:08:03,660 don't know that we necessarily need to add another attribute to 1081 01:08:03,660 --> 01:08:08,520 the person tag. Is what I'm saying? No, I'm with you. Do you 1082 01:08:08,520 --> 01:08:10,080 agree, Daniel, or is that? Am I crazy? 1083 01:08:10,740 --> 01:08:15,540 Daniel J. Lewis: I could maybe see something like a directory 1084 01:08:15,540 --> 01:08:19,920 listing, because there is the idea of, well, should the person 1085 01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:26,420 Tag link to this person's website, or link to something 1086 01:08:26,420 --> 01:08:30,140 that does point out other places where they've been. But then 1087 01:08:30,140 --> 01:08:32,420 again, that's what the person tag is supposed to do, because 1088 01:08:32,420 --> 01:08:36,140 the podcast app should see that and then be able to link to 1089 01:08:36,500 --> 01:08:40,760 other places. So even like right now, do we have the ecosystem 1090 01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:44,980 where the podcast app, if I'm in podcast guru and I see Dave 1091 01:08:44,980 --> 01:08:48,520 Jones in the app on an episode I'm listening to, and I tap on 1092 01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:53,200 your name, is that going to take me to a whole list of other 1093 01:08:53,200 --> 01:08:58,060 podcasts you've been on? The apps would probably have to 1094 01:08:58,120 --> 01:09:01,980 process all of that themselves, unless they use a third party 1095 01:09:02,040 --> 01:09:09,780 service. So I kind of see what he's doing as maybe a service 1096 01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:14,580 for the developers. And maybe there is the possibility of 1097 01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:19,200 blinking something inside of the feed in the person tag, because 1098 01:09:19,260 --> 01:09:23,900 how otherwise would I can take podcast guru. How would podcast 1099 01:09:23,900 --> 01:09:29,600 guru know how to discover all of those other episodes if you're 1100 01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:34,220 linking to podcast index.org and your person tag, but you could 1101 01:09:34,220 --> 01:09:38,900 then add this pod ID or something else as an additional 1102 01:09:38,900 --> 01:09:43,420 attribute that is, in a way, it's like the publisher feed, 1103 01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:49,360 but for the person, in a sense, and that then makes it so much 1104 01:09:49,360 --> 01:09:52,720 easier for the app developers to instantly populate that list of 1105 01:09:52,780 --> 01:09:54,700 everywhere else this person has been. 1106 01:09:56,260 --> 01:09:58,960 Dave Jones: I think, I think what, as I'm listening to you 1107 01:09:58,960 --> 01:10:02,940 talk, I feel like, what. So there's still room here. So you 1108 01:10:02,940 --> 01:10:06,600 have, you have Russell's service, which is meeting this, 1109 01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:10,920 this, this need. He's, you know, again, he's a hosting company. 1110 01:10:10,920 --> 01:10:15,000 So he's, this is a service that he would, you know, that he 1111 01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:19,260 wants, and that fits that use case. This guy's obviously got 1112 01:10:19,260 --> 01:10:24,500 other use cases too, but I think that's a great fit for that type 1113 01:10:24,500 --> 01:10:27,500 of thing. But then I feel like there's also this other 1114 01:10:29,120 --> 01:10:32,600 possibility, still, there's still a need for just a flat 1115 01:10:32,600 --> 01:10:37,160 out, just a flat list that exists somewhere that's doing 1116 01:10:37,220 --> 01:10:40,180 the thing that I mentioned a while ago, and sort of the thing 1117 01:10:40,180 --> 01:10:42,760 that you're talking about, Daniel, where you have just, 1118 01:10:42,760 --> 01:10:55,120 just a flat JSON list, yay, JSON of of name, you know, name and 1119 01:10:55,120 --> 01:10:59,140 attribute and hash, and then when this, when you know when an 1120 01:10:59,140 --> 01:11:03,180 app or some service wants to just look up when they see 1121 01:11:03,180 --> 01:11:07,560 something, they can just match hashes. Like, I don't know that 1122 01:11:07,560 --> 01:11:12,060 the hash just has to be in the tag. You know, that's the thing. 1123 01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:14,820 Daniel J. Lewis: The hash could change too. You get one 1124 01:11:14,820 --> 01:11:19,560 character off on a URL, like just a trailing slash, yes or 1125 01:11:19,560 --> 01:11:22,820 no, and the hash will be different. Well, that's 1126 01:11:22,820 --> 01:11:24,920 Dave Jones: what happened. That's what Okay, so initially, 1127 01:11:24,980 --> 01:11:27,980 Russell posted back and said, That's why I initially was not 1128 01:11:27,980 --> 01:11:34,160 seeing any any hits, is because the the URL in the href that 1129 01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:39,380 I've always used has been an HTTP link, and he his service 1130 01:11:39,380 --> 01:11:41,020 required HTTPS. 1131 01:11:42,280 --> 01:11:44,980 Adam Curry: You're subjected to a man in the middle attack on 1132 01:11:44,980 --> 01:11:48,820 your information. Dave, you're not interrupting everywhere. Oh, 1133 01:11:48,820 --> 01:11:50,260 bad to bad. 1134 01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:54,640 Dave Jones: I know, horrible. And so that. So it didn't, they 1135 01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:58,180 didn't match up. So he, he changed the system a while, just 1136 01:11:58,180 --> 01:12:02,400 a few minutes ago, to be to just treat everything as HTTPS So, 1137 01:12:04,500 --> 01:12:08,460 yeah, so that then, so that fixed the issue and but I don't, 1138 01:12:08,460 --> 01:12:11,400 I think, I think there's a lot this. I like this service a lot. 1139 01:12:11,760 --> 01:12:20,100 I think it's a I think it's cool having to go through here and it 1140 01:12:20,100 --> 01:12:22,400 says, maybe you've been on these episodes, I've got some 1141 01:12:22,400 --> 01:12:26,660 potential matches. And so for each one, I can choose, do I 1142 01:12:26,660 --> 01:12:32,420 want to sort of tag myself as this is a an appropriate hit to 1143 01:12:32,420 --> 01:12:36,140 be returned into pod id.org, API, and I think that's a great 1144 01:12:36,140 --> 01:12:38,720 way to do it, because that gives me some control. I don't have 1145 01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:42,880 to, because since, because these are hits, what, what this has 1146 01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:46,480 done, I think, is matched up my email address with what was in 1147 01:12:46,480 --> 01:12:51,880 the feed, and that he's not including those by default, 1148 01:12:51,880 --> 01:12:55,000 which I think is, again, the right choice. I can choose 1149 01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:59,980 whether to associate myself with that or not. The person tag 1150 01:12:59,980 --> 01:13:03,540 match was, was an instant hit, and it went right into the API. 1151 01:13:04,200 --> 01:13:05,700 I don't know. I like it. I like it a lot. 1152 01:13:06,360 --> 01:13:09,540 Adam Curry: Dave, we have you for another 15 is that the same 1153 01:13:10,260 --> 01:13:14,700 same time frame we're on today? Yeah, okay, then we shall move 1154 01:13:14,700 --> 01:13:18,780 on to one last quick topic. Okay, no song today. We got no 1155 01:13:18,780 --> 01:13:19,980 time for music, no 1156 01:13:19,980 --> 01:13:22,820 Dave Jones: song, yeah, play a song, play a song, but then we 1157 01:13:22,820 --> 01:13:23,480 will, okay, 1158 01:13:23,540 --> 01:13:27,140 Adam Curry: all right. Well, I pulled the song particularly. 1159 01:13:27,140 --> 01:13:28,340 Jay Lewis, you can what. 1160 01:13:28,880 --> 01:13:30,680 Dave Jones: I condone it. I condone this. You condone 1161 01:13:30,680 --> 01:13:34,400 Adam Curry: this. Okay, Daniel, I chose this one for you and for 1162 01:13:34,400 --> 01:13:38,540 me because I love it. Hambleton, you're killing me on 2.0 sunrise 1163 01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:49,360 Unknown: coming. I'm guilty again. Rooster crowing. It's not 1164 01:13:49,360 --> 01:14:00,720 the first time I see you. Kiss my neck, pick me up again. Oh, 1165 01:14:00,720 --> 01:14:04,080 pick me up again. It feels like I am The 1166 01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:16,920 slow dead Lord is. 1167 01:14:48,160 --> 01:14:49,240 Oh, Jesus, your King. 1168 01:15:07,740 --> 01:15:11,940 I thought you were a ghost just in there. Didn't care, always 1169 01:15:11,940 --> 01:15:17,040 mad, looking for the bad in me. I compared you to my dad. To be 1170 01:15:17,040 --> 01:15:20,420 honest, I've been wondering if you could really love me. 1171 01:15:22,400 --> 01:15:24,860 Wondering if you could really 1172 01:15:30,260 --> 01:15:34,820 love me. You said you really love me, and it feels like 1173 01:15:40,940 --> 01:15:41,980 heaven. It feels like, 1174 01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:50,020 dying. 1175 01:16:02,860 --> 01:16:03,480 We with kindness, 1176 01:16:20,460 --> 01:16:21,320 don't she only I can't 1177 01:16:30,320 --> 01:16:59,260 believe it. With your 1178 01:17:35,300 --> 01:17:38,660 Adam Curry: me. Hambleton, you're killing me, and the 1179 01:17:38,660 --> 01:17:43,960 boardroom chatter definitely weighs out the message of that 1180 01:17:43,960 --> 01:17:48,460 song, we're all going to hell. 1181 01:17:51,640 --> 01:17:54,280 Dave Jones: The boardroom is basically a bunch of 15 year 1182 01:17:54,280 --> 01:17:59,740 Adam Curry: old boys. I'm up front. I'm up front. Man, it's a 1183 01:17:59,740 --> 01:18:02,640 value for value song, so if you didn't boost while you were 1184 01:18:02,640 --> 01:18:05,640 listening to it, you can always go back and you just even pause 1185 01:18:05,640 --> 01:18:07,860 it, and you can boost. And all of that works in the modern 1186 01:18:07,860 --> 01:18:12,300 podcast apps. Since, well, we're running out of time, we need to 1187 01:18:12,300 --> 01:18:16,620 thank some people for this value for value operation that we're 1188 01:18:16,620 --> 01:18:20,300 running here. I'll read a couple of the boosts that came in. In 1189 01:18:20,300 --> 01:18:25,940 fact, one just came in from booberry. Whoa, 30,003 SATs, 1190 01:18:25,940 --> 01:18:31,520 which is a nice Palindrome, and he has a link here to the split 1191 01:18:31,520 --> 01:18:35,000 kit with some video. Oh, all right, I gotta check this out 1192 01:18:35,000 --> 01:18:35,360 first. Are 1193 01:18:35,360 --> 01:18:36,320 Dave Jones: you gonna click that? 1194 01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:40,960 Adam Curry: Yeah, I'm gonna click that. Let me see. Whoa, 1195 01:18:41,200 --> 01:18:45,700 oh, my God, this is some kind of massive, massive boost board 1196 01:18:45,760 --> 01:18:49,180 thing on split kit. Not even sure what. This is. Huge shout 1197 01:18:49,180 --> 01:18:52,720 out to Stephen B for these live split kit watch pages. He says 1198 01:18:52,720 --> 01:18:56,980 it reminds me of being back on MySpace, almost. And I love it. 1199 01:18:57,160 --> 01:18:59,680 He's also implemented using chapter artwork instead of 1200 01:18:59,680 --> 01:19:03,720 video. Very deeply legal. Okay, well, I gotta look at all this, 1201 01:19:03,720 --> 01:19:06,480 man. This is, this is, I'll put it in the show notes so people 1202 01:19:06,480 --> 01:19:09,480 can take a look at that. And I have no idea what I'm looking at 1203 01:19:09,480 --> 01:19:12,180 right now, but you know that it's good stuff, because these 1204 01:19:12,180 --> 01:19:17,040 guys are crazy. 2222 from cole McCormick, speaking of 1205 01:19:17,040 --> 01:19:19,260 centralized versus decentralized, I had a meeting 1206 01:19:19,260 --> 01:19:22,280 with Zach from indie hub. Ah, yes. His vision is to be the 1207 01:19:22,280 --> 01:19:25,280 center of the new model for fundraising and distributing 1208 01:19:25,280 --> 01:19:28,580 movies and TV, while using decentralized tools and tags to 1209 01:19:28,580 --> 01:19:31,940 enable that. Yes, I like Zach a lot. I think he's got he's on a 1210 01:19:31,940 --> 01:19:36,080 good path there. I put my short film, the break in on there, and 1211 01:19:36,080 --> 01:19:38,780 people can use the site to watch it, support it. And I enabled 1212 01:19:38,780 --> 01:19:42,040 the odd the option to distribute with RSS. Ah, he's doing hosting 1213 01:19:42,040 --> 01:19:45,640 too. The cinema side of podcasting seems to need a 1214 01:19:45,640 --> 01:19:49,120 centralized thing to show people what's possible. Well, sometimes 1215 01:19:49,120 --> 01:19:52,180 you do need that. That's cool. I'll take a look at that salty 1216 01:19:52,180 --> 01:19:56,560 crayon 1111, Adam and Dave. I look at the AI as parody. If it 1217 01:19:56,560 --> 01:19:59,560 makes me laugh, I play it. But the voice that sounds like JCD 1218 01:19:59,560 --> 01:20:02,280 using a. Intro, boots on the ground and subs in the water and 1219 01:20:02,280 --> 01:20:04,740 the bunker, voice for music, and then it gets put into the AI 1220 01:20:04,740 --> 01:20:10,020 sludge bucket. Okay, let us know. Triple seven. Boost from 1221 01:20:10,020 --> 01:20:14,220 Chad F Thank you, Chad. 1776 freedom. Boost from salty crayon 1222 01:20:14,220 --> 01:20:17,460 hero boardroom, a little V for V. Housekeeping. Fountain looks 1223 01:20:17,460 --> 01:20:20,780 like the value time splits is on the fritz again, with not time 1224 01:20:20,780 --> 01:20:24,140 stamping the music and artists and fountain artists. If it's 1225 01:20:24,140 --> 01:20:27,200 not in the index, don't promote the legacy apps you if you want 1226 01:20:27,200 --> 01:20:31,460 to earn crackers, stay on Spotify and wave Lake. He says, 1227 01:20:32,720 --> 01:20:35,660 we can get an organized list that says music, podcasts and 1228 01:20:35,660 --> 01:20:38,960 podcasts separate from each other. Hold on a second. Can we 1229 01:20:38,960 --> 01:20:42,100 get an organized list that says music podcasts and podcasts 1230 01:20:42,100 --> 01:20:45,580 separate from each other, from the last boardroom. Yes, more V 1231 01:20:45,580 --> 01:20:48,280 for V wallets. Jesus take the wheel. This is off the rails in 1232 01:20:48,280 --> 01:20:51,640 the pipe. Go podcasting. Yeah, whoa, he 1233 01:20:51,640 --> 01:20:53,560 Dave Jones: fell on the board there. Well, Ellen beats. 1234 01:20:53,860 --> 01:20:56,440 Adam Curry: Ellen beats has a pretty good list, from what I've 1235 01:20:56,440 --> 01:21:00,460 seen in beats, yeah, another 333, from Chad F and Dr Scott 1236 01:21:00,460 --> 01:21:03,120 boosted the bat signal, and that's what we've got. Dave, I 1237 01:21:03,120 --> 01:21:04,200 hit the D limiter. 1238 01:21:05,280 --> 01:21:09,840 Dave Jones: We got, we've got pod verse, donated $50 that's 1239 01:21:09,840 --> 01:21:10,860 Mitch and Creon. Very 1240 01:21:10,860 --> 01:21:13,440 Adam Curry: nice. Thank you. Brothers, excellent. Still 1241 01:21:13,440 --> 01:21:18,240 Dave Jones: waiting on podcast. Pod verse, Ng, yes. Next Gen, 1242 01:21:18,420 --> 01:21:23,480 yes. Hard at work there. We got some boost. We got pod home. 1243 01:21:23,840 --> 01:21:27,680 That's Barry, 30,000 SAS do podcast guru. He says, I 1244 01:21:27,680 --> 01:21:29,180 appreciate you guys. No, 1245 01:21:29,180 --> 01:21:32,600 Adam Curry: thank you, Barry. We appreciate you guys. You you you 1246 01:21:32,600 --> 01:21:36,200 guys, you guys. Use guy. He's only one guy over there. Pod 1247 01:21:36,200 --> 01:21:37,580 home, use guy, yes. 1248 01:21:39,140 --> 01:21:42,400 Dave Jones: Anonymous to cast O Matic, that's rare. Customatic 1249 01:21:42,400 --> 01:21:44,620 doesn't usually when I see anonymous through 1250 01:21:44,620 --> 01:21:46,840 Adam Curry: custom maybe, just, maybe just named himself 1251 01:21:46,840 --> 01:21:47,560 anonymous. 1252 01:21:48,040 --> 01:21:49,960 Dave Jones: That's true. Maybe that's might be his first name. 1253 01:21:52,420 --> 01:21:55,900 Boosting on Episode 196, redneck Air Force. He says, just for the 1254 01:21:55,900 --> 01:22:01,320 music. 51 sets, nice. We got you we got you covered. Oh, comic 1255 01:22:01,320 --> 01:22:03,180 strip. Blogger, that was a very short, 1256 01:22:03,300 --> 01:22:05,400 Adam Curry: very short list, people, what's going on? You 1257 01:22:05,400 --> 01:22:07,500 think Bitcoin is down? Oh, it is. 1258 01:22:08,820 --> 01:22:12,900 Dave Jones: It's always down. Do you know the fifth my buddy Tim 1259 01:22:12,900 --> 01:22:15,360 was telling me about the 58k crowd? 1260 01:22:17,580 --> 01:22:20,840 Adam Curry: Yeah, I've heard this. Yeah, bitcoins going to 50 1261 01:22:20,840 --> 01:22:24,200 and will never go above 58 and it's stuck at 58 is that? What 1262 01:22:24,200 --> 01:22:26,480 Dave Jones: that is? Yeah, if it ever goes below, it'll come back 1263 01:22:26,480 --> 01:22:29,600 up. If it ever goes above, it'll come back down to 58 and it'll 1264 01:22:29,600 --> 01:22:30,800 just like pegged there forever. 1265 01:22:31,820 --> 01:22:35,240 Adam Curry: I watched the I watched the HBO special last 1266 01:22:35,240 --> 01:22:39,020 night. That was that promised to uncover, for me the true 1267 01:22:39,020 --> 01:22:42,820 identity of Satoshi Nakamoto. I've heard that thing is 1268 01:22:42,940 --> 01:22:46,480 terrible. Well, I actually watched it because I heard the 1269 01:22:46,480 --> 01:22:50,800 breakdown of it on This Week in Bitcoin with Chris. And that is 1270 01:22:50,800 --> 01:22:53,500 funny enough. It made me want to watch and it has some good 1271 01:22:53,500 --> 01:22:56,980 history of Bitcoin. It does have, yeah. I mean, the whole 1272 01:22:56,980 --> 01:23:00,600 search for Satoshi is like, whatever, okay, and of 1273 01:23:00,600 --> 01:23:01,920 Dave Jones: course, we don't find out who's No, 1274 01:23:02,400 --> 01:23:06,480 Adam Curry: of course, not, not spoiler alert, not conclusively, 1275 01:23:07,260 --> 01:23:10,920 but the but in general, it's a pretty good doc about Bitcoin. I 1276 01:23:10,920 --> 01:23:11,460 enjoyed it. 1277 01:23:12,120 --> 01:23:15,600 Dave Jones: Maybe I'll give it a what the but we do, we do have 1278 01:23:15,600 --> 01:23:18,720 comic strip blogger, yeah, 26,000 sets. He's always there. 1279 01:23:19,500 --> 01:23:24,560 He says there's during the when the apocalypse happens. Yes, 1280 01:23:25,100 --> 01:23:27,800 there's going to be three things when the nuclear winter and 1281 01:23:27,860 --> 01:23:30,860 Apocalypse happens of world war three. There will be three 1282 01:23:30,860 --> 01:23:36,560 things left, Velveeta cheese, yes, cock, cockroaches 1283 01:23:36,860 --> 01:23:40,480 Adam Curry: and comics blogger, I actually plugged him on the in 1284 01:23:40,480 --> 01:23:43,480 my interview, I don't know if they'll use it, but I know, did 1285 01:23:43,480 --> 01:23:46,960 you Yeah, yeah. I said, you know, I was talking about early 1286 01:23:46,960 --> 01:23:49,660 podcasting, and we had all these cool characters show up, like 1287 01:23:49,660 --> 01:23:53,380 Roger smalls, who people may not remember, but Hello, Adam. It's 1288 01:23:53,380 --> 01:23:57,760 Roger smalls and, and comic strip blogger and, and he's 1289 01:23:57,760 --> 01:24:00,160 still with us. We love you. Comic Strip blogger, 1290 01:24:01,300 --> 01:24:03,840 Dave Jones: howdy, Adam and Dave, I'd like to invite y'all 1291 01:24:03,840 --> 01:24:09,000 to a podcast called unrelenting. Available at www dot 1292 01:24:09,000 --> 01:24:12,720 unrelenting. Dot show. It airs live on no agenda stream 1293 01:24:12,720 --> 01:24:16,500 immediately before your live broadcast. It's hosted by Irish 1294 01:24:16,500 --> 01:24:22,700 mafia member and a Jew grok AI says about it. Why unrelenting 1295 01:24:23,240 --> 01:24:27,560 real talk, honest debates with a touch of humor, hot topics, from 1296 01:24:27,560 --> 01:24:31,460 Tech Trends to political rants, nothing's off limits. Engaging 1297 01:24:31,460 --> 01:24:34,760 banter. Gene and Darren chemistry make every episode 1298 01:24:34,760 --> 01:24:36,440 must listen, yo. CSB, 1299 01:24:36,860 --> 01:24:38,900 Adam Curry: well, that's a promo, if I've ever heard one. 1300 01:24:39,740 --> 01:24:43,480 Yeah, it is comic blogger. He is here to promote your podcast. He 1301 01:24:43,480 --> 01:24:45,640 is the podcast discovery mechanism. 1302 01:24:46,600 --> 01:24:50,020 Dave Jones: Just Oh, I missed one. I missed one. Hold on. That 1303 01:24:50,020 --> 01:24:55,300 was a foul sir. Brian of London, 11, 948, OH, Cosmetic Yes. He 1304 01:24:55,300 --> 01:24:59,020 says, I'm back. I had to find time to shift my Alby to Alby 1305 01:24:59,020 --> 01:25:01,680 hub on the old umbra. Well, because I really didn't want my 1306 01:25:01,860 --> 01:25:05,880 point eight, five BTC node to be linked to every podcast app. I'm 1307 01:25:06,060 --> 01:25:09,540 not sure I like this new setup, but I'll try to finish my a lb 1308 01:25:09,540 --> 01:25:11,280 API for a high I 1309 01:25:11,280 --> 01:25:13,920 Adam Curry: got to I'm digging the lb hub now that I understand 1310 01:25:13,920 --> 01:25:18,240 it. And I understand it because I could just click install it. 1311 01:25:18,840 --> 01:25:22,400 Oh, it's there. Oh, I see what I'm supposed to do. Okay, yeah, 1312 01:25:22,460 --> 01:25:27,320 yeah, it's a it's basically turns your, your my own node 1313 01:25:27,380 --> 01:25:30,800 into, you know, gives me an app store for it so I can connect 1314 01:25:30,800 --> 01:25:32,420 all these apps to it. Got 1315 01:25:32,420 --> 01:25:37,820 Dave Jones: so much backlog of stuff to do that, including the, 1316 01:25:38,360 --> 01:25:43,060 you know, the Zebedee and the light spark and all. I've got a 1317 01:25:43,060 --> 01:25:47,860 humongous backlog of stuff like that that I well, I will get to 1318 01:25:47,860 --> 01:25:50,080 as soon as we ship this thing to testers. 1319 01:25:50,140 --> 01:25:52,120 Adam Curry: Yeah, why don't we just take next week off to 1320 01:25:53,380 --> 01:25:56,800 Dave Jones: sure that'll work? Okay? But I own a programming 1321 01:25:56,800 --> 01:26:01,080 note though, I will be gone next I will will not be a show next 1322 01:26:01,080 --> 01:26:02,700 week. Ah, good. Where 1323 01:26:02,700 --> 01:26:03,420 Adam Curry: are you going? 1324 01:26:04,260 --> 01:26:08,160 Dave Jones: Going to going hiking? Me and Melissa, 1325 01:26:08,220 --> 01:26:11,160 Adam Curry: oh, you're going to do the Appalachian Trail. Have 1326 01:26:11,160 --> 01:26:12,540 you chosen for some No, it's, 1327 01:26:12,600 --> 01:26:14,460 Dave Jones: it's damn we were going to do the Appalachian 1328 01:26:14,460 --> 01:26:16,980 Trail, but it's damaged because of all the flood. Yes. So we're 1329 01:26:16,980 --> 01:26:20,280 actually going to go. We're, this is our this year was our 1330 01:26:20,280 --> 01:26:21,440 25th wedding anniversary. 1331 01:26:23,120 --> 01:26:25,220 Adam Curry: What is the actual date of your what is the actual 1332 01:26:25,220 --> 01:26:26,600 date of your anniversary? 1333 01:26:27,560 --> 01:26:29,720 Dave Jones: It was August the 14th. Wow. 1334 01:26:29,720 --> 01:26:31,640 Adam Curry: You forgot to tell me. I would have called it out 1335 01:26:31,640 --> 01:26:35,720 on no agenda. Oh, sorry. 25 years and they never had a 1336 01:26:35,720 --> 01:26:40,540 fight, not even one Tina's hiking at the Smoky Mountains 1337 01:26:40,540 --> 01:26:42,940 right now with the blonde squad. 1338 01:26:43,960 --> 01:26:46,180 Dave Jones: Oh, nice. Yeah. She sent me a picture eight hiking 1339 01:26:46,180 --> 01:26:46,480 up there. 1340 01:26:46,480 --> 01:26:50,080 Adam Curry: They were all looking at the at the Aurora 1341 01:26:50,080 --> 01:26:52,720 Borealis. Last night. It was beautiful there. 1342 01:26:53,200 --> 01:26:55,420 Dave Jones: The aurora borealis has been as far it's been down 1343 01:26:55,420 --> 01:26:58,780 here in Alabama, yeah, we had it last magnetic storm is no joke. 1344 01:26:58,780 --> 01:27:00,780 Adam Curry: No, we love that more storms. 1345 01:27:01,380 --> 01:27:05,160 Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, I've been alive for 48 years, and I 1346 01:27:05,160 --> 01:27:08,760 don't ever remember an aurora borealis in Alabama until this 1347 01:27:08,760 --> 01:27:10,860 year. We've had like, three occurrences. Oh, 1348 01:27:10,920 --> 01:27:13,020 Adam Curry: you've never been through a World War either, but 1349 01:27:13,020 --> 01:27:20,540 it's coming. Hey, we want to thank our guest. Daniel J Lewis 1350 01:27:20,540 --> 01:27:21,500 the Jason, oh, wait 1351 01:27:21,500 --> 01:27:26,900 Dave Jones: a monthlies. Sorry. Monthly is Jesse Hunter $10 1352 01:27:27,320 --> 01:27:32,720 Lauren ball, $24.20 bezel Phillip $25 Mitch Downey $10 1353 01:27:33,020 --> 01:27:35,240 Christopher Harbaugh $10 and Terry Keller $5 1354 01:27:35,900 --> 01:27:37,940 Adam Curry: All right, thank you all for supporting us with your 1355 01:27:37,940 --> 01:27:42,640 value for value. This is how it works. We put everything out 1356 01:27:42,640 --> 01:27:45,520 there, the whole podcast index, all of it, all the work, all the 1357 01:27:45,520 --> 01:27:49,180 energy, the effort, the sweat, the blood, the tears, all of 1358 01:27:49,180 --> 01:27:52,300 it's in there. And as long as we get value back that is worth it 1359 01:27:52,300 --> 01:27:54,820 to us, we keep going with the project. That's how simple. It 1360 01:27:54,820 --> 01:27:57,940 includes the board meeting, of course, and so far so good. We 1361 01:27:57,940 --> 01:28:00,240 don't take any of that money. But that's not the value we're 1362 01:28:00,240 --> 01:28:02,820 looking for we're looking for people doing stuff. It's time, 1363 01:28:02,820 --> 01:28:05,400 talent and treasure. Daniel J Lewis, you're part of that, man, 1364 01:28:06,060 --> 01:28:08,340 Daniel J. Lewis: thank you. I've been a fan of this ever since 1365 01:28:08,340 --> 01:28:10,500 the beginning. You might remember that I heard you 1366 01:28:10,500 --> 01:28:13,860 mention it on no agenda, and I immediately emailed you, and I 1367 01:28:13,860 --> 01:28:16,080 was like, whatever you're doing, I want to be part of 1368 01:28:16,080 --> 01:28:18,420 Adam Curry: it. And did I email you back, or did I show on you? 1369 01:28:18,480 --> 01:28:19,380 Oh, I did. You 1370 01:28:19,380 --> 01:28:23,240 Daniel J. Lewis: emailed me back. Wow, it wasn't like the 1371 01:28:23,240 --> 01:28:24,560 first time that we met. 1372 01:28:26,240 --> 01:28:28,700 Adam Curry: It might have been for me, like, Who's this guy? 1373 01:28:29,780 --> 01:28:32,600 Daniel J. Lewis: Do you want to hear that story briefly? Sure. 1374 01:28:33,200 --> 01:28:37,820 So it's a two part story here, very brief. You know Jen Briney, 1375 01:28:37,820 --> 01:28:42,100 host of congressional dish, I do years ago, back when I was 1376 01:28:42,100 --> 01:28:45,940 married, I was at what was the night of the Podcast Awards, the 1377 01:28:45,940 --> 01:28:50,320 first time I won a podcast award, and at the party after 1378 01:28:50,320 --> 01:28:53,740 the award, Jen Briney came up to me, and she was just gushing 1379 01:28:53,740 --> 01:28:56,740 with fangirlism because she said, You taught me everything I 1380 01:28:56,740 --> 01:28:59,020 know about podcasting. I wouldn't be podcasting if it 1381 01:28:59,020 --> 01:29:03,840 wasn't for you, like just showering all of this praise on 1382 01:29:03,840 --> 01:29:08,160 me to the point that I started to feel a little awkward and 1383 01:29:08,160 --> 01:29:11,400 like I tried to hold up my left hand, showing you know I am 1384 01:29:11,400 --> 01:29:14,640 married, and I could tell she was married. I kind of tried to 1385 01:29:14,760 --> 01:29:18,840 gesture my wife to be over closer to me, and it was just 1386 01:29:18,840 --> 01:29:24,140 like this. Now, of course, she didn't mean any of that. She was 1387 01:29:24,140 --> 01:29:29,360 just such a fan girl. Well, so fast forward. Then, I think, two 1388 01:29:29,360 --> 01:29:32,480 years later, New Media Expo, the last New Media Expo, the one 1389 01:29:32,480 --> 01:29:36,560 that had the podcast award, horrible disaster there, and 1390 01:29:36,620 --> 01:29:41,500 Adam was there, and Adam, I got to meet you afterward, and I was 1391 01:29:41,500 --> 01:29:43,960 having my own, like, fangirling moment, because that was the 1392 01:29:43,960 --> 01:29:46,960 first time I'd met you in person. And, like, I just Oh, so 1393 01:29:46,960 --> 01:29:47,800 much did Adam show 1394 01:29:47,800 --> 01:29:49,000 Dave Jones: you his ring to show you 1395 01:29:50,500 --> 01:29:52,900 Adam Curry: I'm married? Daniel, J stay away. 1396 01:29:53,620 --> 01:29:53,980 Dave Jones: Well, 1397 01:29:54,040 --> 01:29:57,280 Daniel J. Lewis: so what happened is I just was so 1398 01:29:57,280 --> 01:30:00,360 excited to meet Adam, and I wanted to tell him how. Much I 1399 01:30:00,360 --> 01:30:03,780 appreciated him and what he's done in podcasting. And then he 1400 01:30:03,780 --> 01:30:10,800 says, Hey, is that Jen Briney, that's funny. 1401 01:30:12,360 --> 01:30:16,140 Adam Curry: Well, I'm a big fan dang of Jay Lewis, I do. I 1402 01:30:16,140 --> 01:30:19,320 listen to your podcast. I listen to your I always tune in to find 1403 01:30:19,320 --> 01:30:22,580 out what the future of podcasting is going to be and I 1404 01:30:22,580 --> 01:30:25,460 learn a lot. Thank you, brother. We appreciate you being on. 1405 01:30:25,460 --> 01:30:26,780 Don't be no stranger now. 1406 01:30:27,200 --> 01:30:30,080 Daniel J. Lewis: Hey, anytime, every time, okay, brother, Dave, 1407 01:30:30,080 --> 01:30:30,320 thank 1408 01:30:30,320 --> 01:30:33,260 Adam Curry: you so much, man, and I'm glad you're you're not 1409 01:30:33,260 --> 01:30:36,980 going to be here on Friday. You deserve it. You and you and the 1410 01:30:36,980 --> 01:30:37,940 wife deserve it. Are you 1411 01:30:38,480 --> 01:30:40,900 Dave Jones: going to do something? Are you going to do a 1412 01:30:41,020 --> 01:30:44,140 bushcray ball or something. We're just gonna call it, but 1413 01:30:44,140 --> 01:30:47,560 Adam Curry: I just might call it. There's a lot going on, but 1414 01:30:47,560 --> 01:30:49,720 you never know. You never know. I might get, I might get a bug 1415 01:30:49,720 --> 01:30:50,680 at my butt. You never know. 1416 01:30:51,520 --> 01:30:52,900 Dave Jones: Since makes the heart grow fonder, 1417 01:30:53,320 --> 01:30:55,840 Adam Curry: this is true. Have a great weekend, everybody. Thank 1418 01:30:55,840 --> 01:30:58,660 you very much for being here in the boardroom. We appreciate all 1419 01:30:58,660 --> 01:31:01,080 that you do your time, your talent, your treasure. We'll see 1420 01:31:01,080 --> 01:31:03,900 you in two weeks right here on podcasting 2.0 1421 01:31:20,460 --> 01:31:24,320 You have been listening to podcasting. To point oh, visit 1422 01:31:24,320 --> 01:31:29,300 podcast index.org for more information. Go podcasting. 1423 01:31:29,840 --> 01:31:32,060 Don't debug on the show, man, you.