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Podcasting 2.0 for June 12th, 2026, episode 263. Chat is

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dead. Well, hello and welcome my friends into the boardroom,

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the board meeting of Podcasting 2.0. Just a bunch of

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teenagers here, pay no attention to us. what the future

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of podcasting is going to be because we're creating it.

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I'm Adam Curry here in the heart of the Texas

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Hill Country and in Alabama, the man who's so far

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underwater he needs a snorkel. The reverb on the end,

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I like it. Come on, man, come on. I'm a

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radio pronosticator. You are. That was impressive. I like it.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's Friday once again, everybody. Welcome to

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Podcasting 2.0. Dave, how are you doing? I saw notes

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on the podcastindex.social, and whenever you say, I'm so far

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underwater, man, I'm like, oh, boy. Oh, boy. Oh, boy.

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I live in that state perpetually, so I'm used to

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it. I just want to say that sometimes I need

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to say. Sometimes I need to set expectations about how

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fast code or something is going to happen because I'm

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like, you know, eh. A lot going on. There's a

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lot going on. I don't, I just don't, I don't,

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I always feel bad because people. Email me or... post

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something to me and want something. And I'm like, you

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know, I really want to give that to you quickly,

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but I just, I only get about an hour and

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a half a day max. It's crazy to see how

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much output you have actually based upon that hour, hour

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and a half a day. I've been able to. Increase

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the output a little bit with AI coding. Ah, there

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it is. Increase productivity. No one's replacing Dave. He's just

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getting more productive. And when you get more productive, there's

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less time for your wife. Yeah, that's really what it

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is. I know. The, um... The end. I think the

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AI coding... has worked pretty well for my use cases

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because There was already a large existing code base. Witch.

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it can draw patterns from. So yeah, sure, sure, sure,

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sure. I mean, there's, there's, there's, There's already a hundred

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thousand lines of code. you know, in the podcast index.

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repositories in which to just sort of like root around.

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To root around and delete stuff. Yeah, I say I

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need a new endpoint that does this on the API.

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And it can just say, well, it can go look

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at the existing stuff and all the SQL statements and

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all that kind of stuff. I mean, that's not hard.

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But wait, when you say that, do you let it

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build it? I always go through the spec driven development

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process. I always have it create a spec. A plan.

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Well, yeah, this is... Yeah, yeah, it is. It's a

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plan, but also like a... My typical pattern is... I

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take... I don't let, I never let the AI agent.

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touch the code base. without, excuse me, excuse me, touch

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the repository. So everything, it is prohibited from. writing anything

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to get. Except for when it does it. Except for

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when it does it and then apologizes for it after

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the fact. That's my favorite. Oh, man, I'm sorry. I'll

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write this down so that'll never happen again. And then

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it'll do it and it'll say, oh, you know what,

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you're right. You're right. I should have seen that. I

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have a note about that. Oh, yeah. How many times

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have I been through that? It's a lie. It's just

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a lie. It's a lie. Unless you specifically say in

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your prompt, and remember. Don't do this. You've got a

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memory file about it. It will do it. Eventually, it

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will just do it. You've got to, you have to

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be. These things need a human to drive it. It

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needs a human. When it comes back from if you

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clear out the context, which I do a lot. comes

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back from context, and then I'll have to remind it,

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okay, remember, we have memory about this. Go look for

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it before you, oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah, you're right.

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I don't actually know any of that. Let me go

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check it out. Because it just doesn't know. It's not

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intelligent. It's a robot. And... That's why I never let

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it touch Git. Of course, you have to have your

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stuff backed up. I mean, you have to. You must

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have back up to everything. No matter what. And I

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never let it touch Git. And then. have essay I

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think. I think coders who... are very successful. with using

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AI agents to do coding. are people who already think

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in small... bite-sized chunks about projects. Small-minded people, yes. Small-minded

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people with small windows of thought processing, yes. Because the

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process you already take is one where you take a

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large... thing and boil it down into a small series

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of steps. And so you just, you naturally sort of

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think and talk that way already. And then... you take

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that and apply it to a very. a A code

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repository that's been around for years. and is very mature.

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mature in the sense of it has established patterns, not

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that those patterns are necessarily optimized. But it does have

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a set of... patterns already. Yes. Because then, like, I

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mean, adding a new endpoint to an API is typically

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not... that difficult if all you're needing is data presented

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in a new way. I found, you know how skills

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work, obviously. I found that I've been able to make

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something called Doctrine. or what Claude calls doctrine. So an

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example of doctrine is my example of... do the credits.

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So it's all uppercase credits and then now depending on

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what show I'm working on, that's how it would adjust

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it so it's not just a skill specifically for No

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Agenda for Podcasting 2.0. And it understands doctrine so it

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kind of handles it as a skill and has the

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scripts already built. It just knows the variable is where

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I'm at at that moment. And that's worked out pretty

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well for me. I th- so... I think obviously AI.

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is dominating everything in life everything life life all of

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our lives are just so sad saturated with it. I

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don't think I've ever. I don't think I've ever been

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so split-minded about a single piece of technology as I

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am with this. Wow. I mean, on a daily basis,

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I... get tons of use out of it but i

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also just dis buys it down to my core of

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who I hated. Write down your backbone. I hate, yes,

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my very cerebrospinal fluid. quivers with disgust at AI-generated output.

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Well... I cannot stand it when somebody sends me like

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a document or an email that starts off and you

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immediately within the first two sentences know that it's AI.

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And it's like 12 paragraphs of thing. And I'm like,

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man, I can't read this. Well, we had a, this

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is interesting. I know you followed the Godcaster chat that

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we had this morning. There was, it was kind of

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fun how it came in like, it's off air, it's

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broken. And that was kind of the message that we

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got. And so I go to investigate, let me see

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what's going on. It was a live stream and I

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didn't know. if it was broken, I didn't know if

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it was not, you know, what off-air meant. And so.

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After probably 25 minutes, I figured out that what was

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happening is a Godcaster livestream station. We have a product

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called Your Town Livestream. was being relayed by Live365, which

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is correct. for licensing. But it was actually Live365 who,

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for whatever reason, their system was just putting out metadata

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saying off-air. without passing through the metadata which comes through

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What is it called? CTY, I think it is. uh

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you know that's the the metadata that comes along with

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ice cast And so... I told the robot... write up

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a document for the help desk on that end if

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the user can't figure out how to restart their relay

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or whatever it is. And so it wrote a paragraph.

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I don't know if you saw that if you had

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time to look at it. But I was curious if

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A, if you thought, oh, wow, this is an AI-generated

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thing. So did you see it or you didn't see

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it? I don't, I was... split-minded with our split brain

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with work so let me let me go back and

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see if i can yeah well And oh, is this,

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is this the one? No, I did not see this.

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Okay, you said I've debugged everything. I haven't read any

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of this yet. Here's a template. Does it scream? AI

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to you? The one that says, okay, I've debugged everything?

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Yeah, what's underneath that. What they would have to give

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to the... to the help desk at Life 365. Um...

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Curious Curious. Please restart. Not necessarily, no. So as I

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was posting that. I thought to myself. Well, what we

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need here is the world where my robot talks to

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the robot at the help desk at Live 365, and

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they just resolve it without two other people sitting in

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the middle. That would have been a beautiful thing. Because

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now Gordon has to talk to the station guy. The

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station guy has to go talk to Live 365. If

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he can't figure it out, he has to email him

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this document. I can see a world where that would

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have been very handy. I'm going to have to think

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about that one. I mean, you know. handy and Well,

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less... That would be more productive for everybody involved. We

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could do other things. things with that time. It def-

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Mmm. It depends on what. You mean, like... Productivity has...

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a lot of consequences. I am not going to. make

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you feel good about this at all, I can tell.

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Um... So... I'm with you on emails. I'm with you

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on songs. I'm with you on images. I'm with you

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on all of that. I mean, that's annoying. Well, it's

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because I live my life in... 50% of my job

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on a daily basis for the last 27 years has

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been tech support. Right. And now you're getting just longer

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emails and with superlatives that you don't need. That is

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more work slop. Work slop. Yeah. And less help desk.

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Mm-hmm. On the help desk side of things, The issue,

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I think, is that. The way software – I think

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the reason I'm having a reaction to what you're saying

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about just let my support bot talk to that support

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bot and then let them resolve it. Errors in... in

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systems. have mini They look the same. You can have

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a large number of... of problems that manifest. themselves in

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the same output sure The same dialogue box. Exactly. And

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so like if. if the customer is not involved or

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the end user or whatever is not involved. Or if

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they're the ones that trigger it. themselves. Yeah, I understand.

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It just all falls apart. It's kind of a false

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equivalency. Let me give you a podcasting example of productivity.

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So... Every month or so, Pastor Jimmy records 23 daily

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grinds for me. um This is a one-minute devotional. I

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have a script that... that takes the most, you know,

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I dump all 23 of these into a bin, and

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then the script, you know, it's a cron job, it

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runs, it says, okay, let me get the next number

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in the sequence. It actually does some fun things. It

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whispers it and then figures out what the scripture is

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about. And then it does the ID3 tags, uploads it

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to the server, adds the episode to the RSS feed.

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So that's already kind of cool. The fact that it's,

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you know, this less work because who wants to be

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titling? You know, all of this, like 23 episodes. So

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when he sends it to me, he sends it to

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me as one big file. And he's got flubs. He's

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got pickups. And so that used to be about a

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two and a half to three hour job. I'm pretty

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fast at editing. So, you know, I pick up, I

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can see on the waveform. Oh, he picked it up.

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Okay. I'll set an out point there. In point there.

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Click. Let me listen. Okay. The edit's good. Then I'd

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have to put music blocks on each of those. Then

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I have to cut each one, output it, and then

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it goes into the bin. So about 23 minutes. So

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I did an experiment. I said, robot. Here's a file.

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There's 23. Daily grinds on here. They're pickups, they're flubs,

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they're restarts. I want you to cut each one, put

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the music under it, make sure there's no flubs, title

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it, do the ID3 tags, and then put it in

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the bin. brother It had, out of 23... There were

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two, because all I had to do was just audition

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them in real time. listening to them. There were two

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that had a little audio flaw. the beginning, just a

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little glitch of, you know, a little snippet of audio.

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and one where it did an edit but it picked

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up a double breath. otherwise flawless. Total time for Adam,

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about 30 minutes. Most of it just spent listening to

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him to make sure the output was correct. This was

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mind-blowing to me. Okay, so... What you're describing is a

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process that you could have written code for yourself by

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hand. Yes, it wrote code for it, exactly. Exactly. That's

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exactly right. You could have written code that does this

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yourself. Any process that you can envision as a automated

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code-based process. The LLM can do it and just do

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it very, very fast. Yeah, exactly. And then it has

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this built in and now I'm able to reuse that

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code because we've made this into a... a doctrine. So

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now it understands that code. And so now I'm taking

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the next step. because I'm setting up a studio at

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the church. They've given me an office, and it's already

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soundproofed and everything because people want to do podcasts. I'm

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like, you know, the last thing I want to be

241
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is the podcast engineer guy. Right. this now The beautiful

242
00:17:02,195 --> 00:17:07,145
combination for me is Claude with Omarchi. So it's Linux.

243
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I'm running it native. I don't buy software. I don't

244
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look for software. I just say build this software for

245
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me. So I said, I need a piece of software

246
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that is idiot proof. You click on the button, you

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select your podcast, you hit record. If you... flub, mess

248
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up, you know, take it, do it, do over, etc.

249
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People don't have to worry about that. They just keep

250
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recording. And then when they're done, they hit stop. And

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then you go and you detect all the pickups, anything

252
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necessary, cut off. the beginning, cut off the end, have

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them give an audition of any edits that were made,

254
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and ultimately just ID3 tag it, put the image in,

255
00:17:48,047 --> 00:17:50,635
boom, good to go, and the next step will be...

256
00:17:50,959 --> 00:17:54,802
you know, poop it right up to rss.com. I mean,

257
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this is... the three tools I have. which is FFmpeg.

258
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Support those guys. Send those guys money. FFmpeg is just

259
00:18:05,279 --> 00:18:08,111
one of the most beautiful tools I've ever seen. It

260
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does everything. Um... Whisper. Which I do on, you know,

261
00:18:14,830 --> 00:18:17,314
just to get transcripts of everything. I live in audio,

262
00:18:17,394 --> 00:18:20,108
so that's... That's the next tool for me. And I

263
00:18:20,992 --> 00:18:24,205
use together.ai for super fast. You know, it can do

264
00:18:24,245 --> 00:18:29,541
an hour in like 45 seconds. and Python and then

265
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the bot, the robot. And it's changing my life. So

266
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I understand where you're coming from. I also see how

267
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it's... Because I can't write code like that. I mean,

268
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yeah, maybe I could kind of get somewhere. But no,

269
00:18:42,917 --> 00:18:45,482
not really. But I understand what it's doing and I

270
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understand how to tell it to go reuse that code.

271
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And it's just, it's blowing my mind how productive I've

272
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become. This is... This is the issue with the with

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the current state of AI psychosis. that has just gripped

274
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the entire known world. is the conflation between the... incredible

275
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gain in productivity that you just described. and And I

276
00:19:19,813 --> 00:19:23,089
would say, I would describe it as not even really

277
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a gain in productivity. so much as a as an

278
00:19:28,939 --> 00:19:33,579
erasure. of the things that you used to just dread.

279
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Like, so... You get to a point in a code

280
00:19:39,545 --> 00:19:44,622
base. where When somebody describes where you begin to build

281
00:19:44,682 --> 00:19:47,310
out a feature and what you see as the developer

282
00:19:47,330 --> 00:19:51,523
is just a whole lot of copying and pasting. You're

283
00:19:51,563 --> 00:19:57,200
like this. This feature shares so many things. common with

284
00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,485
this other feature. And I'm just going to have to

285
00:19:59,525 --> 00:20:00,767
go in there and I'm going to have to build

286
00:20:00,828 --> 00:20:03,513
a different version of the same class. I'm going to

287
00:20:03,533 --> 00:20:05,938
have to import these same methods. I'm going to have

288
00:20:05,958 --> 00:20:09,986
to build the same unit tests. You're just doing the

289
00:20:10,107 --> 00:20:15,337
same thing with slight tweaks over and over and over

290
00:20:15,457 --> 00:20:20,446
again. Which is exactly the process you're describing. The going

291
00:20:20,526 --> 00:20:26,066
out and getting clips, the automatic edits. These are just

292
00:20:26,106 --> 00:20:33,105
things that you... It's not. But then that process, which

293
00:20:33,205 --> 00:20:37,078
is completely valid, that an agent can take. a process

294
00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:43,948
like that. and Write all the code that automates it

295
00:20:44,028 --> 00:20:47,416
for you. Which is code that you would have never

296
00:20:47,496 --> 00:20:49,622
taken the time to write because it would have taken

297
00:20:49,642 --> 00:20:52,189
100 hours. No, you used to write it for me

298
00:20:52,490 --> 00:20:56,108
until you got busy. Yeah. That's how it is. This

299
00:20:56,188 --> 00:20:58,833
is, I'm using the exact same process as you and

300
00:20:58,894 --> 00:21:02,321
I have used for 16 years. You're just talking to

301
00:21:02,361 --> 00:21:05,267
the agent instead of me. Yeah. But I call it

302
00:21:05,327 --> 00:21:11,665
Dave, just so you know. Hello, Dave. Hello, Dave. So

303
00:21:11,786 --> 00:21:16,019
that, but the problem, when the problem comes in is...

304
00:21:16,507 --> 00:21:24,201
That gets conflated. with actual Customer-facing products that are supposed

305
00:21:24,241 --> 00:21:32,998
to be good. Yeah Like you described customer support. Everybody

306
00:21:33,038 --> 00:21:39,149
despises AI agent. customer support. Sure. It drives you, it

307
00:21:39,190 --> 00:21:42,022
drives you mad, which I wasn't good at it, which

308
00:21:42,102 --> 00:21:45,718
I wasn't suggesting. Oh, I know what you're saying, but

309
00:21:45,738 --> 00:21:49,212
I'm saying like that's where there's a – you have

310
00:21:49,834 --> 00:21:57,007
completely – streamlinable, automatable. Code production on one end. that

311
00:21:57,108 --> 00:22:02,593
is getting rid of rote copy paste work for developers

312
00:22:02,633 --> 00:22:05,831
and content producers. Well, also when it comes to help

313
00:22:05,892 --> 00:22:10,618
desk. People hate help desks and help desks hate people

314
00:22:10,678 --> 00:22:14,310
searching for help. I feel we're just removing human to

315
00:22:14,391 --> 00:22:18,562
human friction. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I book travel. I

316
00:22:19,063 --> 00:22:22,250
call American Express. And I talk to a human being.

317
00:22:22,550 --> 00:22:24,815
And I joke with them. And I have a good

318
00:22:24,875 --> 00:22:27,260
time. And I always tell them, please put me through

319
00:22:27,300 --> 00:22:29,544
to your robot so I can give you a good

320
00:22:29,604 --> 00:22:32,029
review. And for those of you listening to this recording,

321
00:22:32,570 --> 00:22:36,258
give Jacob a raise. This man deserves a raise. I'm

322
00:22:36,418 --> 00:22:41,313
always doing that. And it's very enjoyable to me. Win.

323
00:22:41,987 --> 00:22:47,252
Wait, peep. People don't know, technically oriented people do not

324
00:22:47,292 --> 00:22:52,287
understand. that non-technically oriented people don't know how to describe

325
00:22:52,347 --> 00:22:56,955
problems. No kidding. They don't know. And what you get

326
00:22:56,996 --> 00:23:02,145
is. Hey, this thing doesn't work. Well, no. And thus

327
00:23:02,586 --> 00:23:06,015
starts the question and answer session. Yeah, back and forth,

328
00:23:06,075 --> 00:23:09,865
back and forth, back and forth. It's like it takes

329
00:23:10,026 --> 00:23:13,334
it really takes it takes a human to understand the

330
00:23:13,475 --> 00:23:18,609
flow of the conversation that happens during a support. encounter

331
00:23:19,651 --> 00:23:24,644
and sort of glean out because every person that you

332
00:23:24,684 --> 00:23:29,114
talk to is also different. Like this person describes things

333
00:23:29,175 --> 00:23:32,603
in this way. This person could describe the same problem

334
00:23:32,643 --> 00:23:36,850
in a completely different way. And it takes a human

335
00:23:36,910 --> 00:23:42,916
to understand. this person's lingo and pick up on, oh,

336
00:23:42,936 --> 00:23:46,807
I see, when they say this, what they really mean

337
00:23:46,847 --> 00:23:50,004
is this other thing. And there's some people you talk

338
00:23:50,044 --> 00:23:54,201
to on a support encounter where you know that they

339
00:23:54,242 --> 00:23:57,796
are lying to you. You just know it. The first

340
00:23:57,817 --> 00:24:01,461
thing you say is. did you reboot your machine? Yeah,

341
00:24:01,581 --> 00:24:05,450
yeah, I did. And you're like, no, no, you didn't.

342
00:24:05,710 --> 00:24:10,541
You're lying to me. You're lying. That's the worst. You

343
00:24:10,561 --> 00:24:14,610
go and check their... Their logs. Yeah, you pull up

344
00:24:14,630 --> 00:24:16,835
their machine in real time, says, it's been up for

345
00:24:16,855 --> 00:24:20,031
12 days without a reboot. You're like... And so the

346
00:24:20,071 --> 00:24:22,138
bot will never know this, but you know it because

347
00:24:22,178 --> 00:24:24,426
you have an instinct about the way this person is

348
00:24:24,486 --> 00:24:27,536
talking to you. Okay. Now, I'll just say from a

349
00:24:27,577 --> 00:24:33,420
business, a buddy of mine sells. AI-based systems to call

350
00:24:33,460 --> 00:24:37,193
centers. I'm not sure, you know, these are US-based call

351
00:24:37,214 --> 00:24:41,324
centers, but they're basically sweatshops. And those guys are firing,

352
00:24:41,344 --> 00:24:45,673
you know, 65% once they, you know, have the agent

353
00:24:45,733 --> 00:24:49,019
or whatever figures out the corpus of the company. And

354
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,426
they're very happy with it. I personally, you know, depending

355
00:24:52,486 --> 00:24:55,152
on what the company is, I think there's levels where

356
00:24:55,172 --> 00:24:57,536
you want a human being. It actually took me longer

357
00:24:57,596 --> 00:24:59,786
the other day to get through to an... operator, you

358
00:24:59,807 --> 00:25:05,509
know, human being. The bot kept cock-blocking me. um But

359
00:25:05,811 --> 00:25:08,527
I see from a business perspective where that's like the

360
00:25:08,829 --> 00:25:11,524
one instance where I say, okay, depending on what your

361
00:25:11,585 --> 00:25:16,185
company is. You know, like for travel, American Express travel,

362
00:25:16,205 --> 00:25:18,515
I think I pay fees. I want to talk to

363
00:25:18,555 --> 00:25:21,447
a person and I. I feel good about that. A

364
00:25:21,487 --> 00:25:24,922
concierge, I'm sorry, a travel concierge. They bill it that

365
00:25:24,982 --> 00:25:27,231
way. And I don't mind paying the fee for that.

366
00:25:27,651 --> 00:25:32,959
But all this other stuff. There's so many different levels.

367
00:25:33,635 --> 00:25:37,400
that I just find super enjoyable. My creative mind is,

368
00:25:37,420 --> 00:25:39,313
I mean, look, we built the freedom controller. It took

369
00:25:39,373 --> 00:25:42,448
us years to do. And it was also, there was

370
00:25:42,488 --> 00:25:44,675
newness for you because, you know, you would, I don't

371
00:25:44,695 --> 00:25:47,564
think you'd ever really built something like this. And it

372
00:25:47,605 --> 00:25:49,491
was, and it was a lot of, you know, trial

373
00:25:49,531 --> 00:25:53,598
and error and me testing stuff and breaking stuff. That

374
00:25:53,780 --> 00:25:58,853
process for me, I now have. you know, Well, the

375
00:25:58,873 --> 00:26:01,665
Freedom Controller could be vibe-coded in in an hour and

376
00:26:01,685 --> 00:26:04,339
a half now. Today, yeah. Complete, I mean, you know.

377
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,919
But that's the point. And with higher code quality. Possibly.

378
00:26:08,659 --> 00:26:11,388
Although that thing is rock solid, man. It's been running

379
00:26:11,449 --> 00:26:14,941
for eight years. Like never a reboot. The uptime on

380
00:26:15,001 --> 00:26:19,798
it's like 1900 days or something like that. It's nuts.

381
00:26:19,818 --> 00:26:22,668
So. Anyway, I mean, I'm just saying for what I

382
00:26:22,749 --> 00:26:27,169
do. I mean, like, and just the other example. I

383
00:26:27,209 --> 00:26:29,477
did this. I think you saw that. We did a

384
00:26:29,557 --> 00:26:32,466
Godcaster U. It's a Zoom call. Zoom, by the way,

385
00:26:32,486 --> 00:26:36,721
teaches me a lot about. changing features and removing features?

386
00:26:37,484 --> 00:26:41,019
Whoa, those guys change stuff all the time and it

387
00:26:40,999 --> 00:26:43,871
Bennett throws you for a loop, man. It's like, ah.

388
00:26:44,259 --> 00:26:46,495
Now I can't share. How do I share my, you

389
00:26:46,515 --> 00:26:49,375
know, so we go through these horrible loops of things.

390
00:26:49,731 --> 00:26:53,392
Um, But at the end, it spits out a video.

391
00:26:53,412 --> 00:26:55,519
And then we want to put that into our Godcaster

392
00:26:55,620 --> 00:26:58,430
URSS feed. And I did the same thing. I said,

393
00:26:58,450 --> 00:27:01,503
hey, this video starts at 38 minutes. It ends at

394
00:27:01,664 --> 00:27:06,434
one hour and 59 minutes. or whatever it was, 127.

395
00:27:06,454 --> 00:27:09,199
I want you to cut off the beginning, cut off

396
00:27:09,239 --> 00:27:11,843
the end, put a Godcaster U logo in the top

397
00:27:11,883 --> 00:27:15,970
left-hand corner. I want captions in the lower half, in

398
00:27:16,010 --> 00:27:19,657
the lower third, and output it for web format. And

399
00:27:19,757 --> 00:27:23,503
it did it. That was amazing. That's all SFM picked

400
00:27:23,523 --> 00:27:25,307
too. Yeah, of course it did. Yeah. Yeah, of course

401
00:27:25,387 --> 00:27:28,273
it did. Yeah. Because it's a script, because it's a

402
00:27:28,394 --> 00:27:33,304
known issue that's clearly scriptable. Yeah. But do you see

403
00:27:33,344 --> 00:27:38,684
how me as a... as a frustrated non-coder, just enjoys

404
00:27:38,724 --> 00:27:43,154
that so much? Oh, 100%, yes. Yes, absolutely. I want

405
00:27:43,194 --> 00:27:46,568
you to find some joy like that, Dave. Can I

406
00:27:46,649 --> 00:27:54,269
give you some of my joy? They- The... I don't

407
00:27:54,373 --> 00:27:58,191
know that... People who've been writing code for a long

408
00:27:58,252 --> 00:28:04,815
time. really find any joy. in the AI coding experience.

409
00:28:05,427 --> 00:28:13,145
Like, I think that... Because it's not some... Because what

410
00:28:13,165 --> 00:28:16,561
you've done is you've replaced copy and pasting with just

411
00:28:16,983 --> 00:28:20,933
a chat session where you're saying yes. Yes. Yes. It

412
00:28:20,993 --> 00:28:27,197
gives me multiple choice questions. No, no, yes. And then

413
00:28:27,237 --> 00:28:31,594
you say. write this spec document to an html file

414
00:28:31,614 --> 00:28:33,379
so i can print it yeah no i i i

415
00:28:33,439 --> 00:28:36,548
understand i understand but for me it's like i go

416
00:28:36,568 --> 00:28:40,885
from concept and idea and brain fart to product within

417
00:28:40,925 --> 00:28:44,916
half an hour. I mean, that's mind-boggling. And it's just

418
00:28:44,936 --> 00:28:46,600
for me. I'm not going to sell this. I'm not

419
00:28:46,620 --> 00:28:49,406
going to put it on the app store. That's a

420
00:28:49,526 --> 00:28:52,733
whole different level. I don't think that would work. The

421
00:28:52,813 --> 00:28:56,300
idea of, we'll have one person, billion dollar companies. Yeah,

422
00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:03,190
I'm not so sure about that. I... Yeah, I think

423
00:29:03,270 --> 00:29:06,103
AirPP, I think I agree with you 100%. It does

424
00:29:06,183 --> 00:29:11,280
take the fun away out of coding. And it's not

425
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,052
that there was a ton of fun in most coding

426
00:29:14,152 --> 00:29:18,677
already, but most coding was just a lot of. rehashing

427
00:29:18,737 --> 00:29:20,982
of the same patterns over and over. But you would

428
00:29:21,042 --> 00:29:26,958
have moments of fun where you had... Yeah, you know,

429
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,188
where you would run up against a real problem. And

430
00:29:30,208 --> 00:29:32,856
then walk around the block for an hour and like,

431
00:29:32,957 --> 00:29:34,802
what am I doing wrong? You come back and I

432
00:29:34,843 --> 00:29:39,096
know I've been there too. And now that's gone. With

433
00:29:39,156 --> 00:29:42,574
AppleScript. Now it's just an answer. Now it's just a

434
00:29:42,715 --> 00:29:45,371
yes. Yeah, I know. The challenge is a bit gone.

435
00:29:45,431 --> 00:29:50,168
I understand. But I guess I think the bigger issue,

436
00:29:50,208 --> 00:29:53,649
though, is that. I think I said like a couple

437
00:29:53,669 --> 00:29:58,159
of years ago in the boardroom that. Podcast companies that

438
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:07,227
have... Bait. API calls to LLM providers into their process.

439
00:30:09,183 --> 00:30:13,089
At some point, that is going to become, you better

440
00:30:13,129 --> 00:30:18,301
have a plan B. and well yeah sure again the

441
00:30:18,786 --> 00:30:22,324
customer facing product there's all kinds of risk there. Well,

442
00:30:22,811 --> 00:30:26,918
no, did you see what... Did you see what OpenAI

443
00:30:26,958 --> 00:30:33,358
said this past week? They said chat is dead. Did

444
00:30:33,398 --> 00:30:39,320
you see that? No, no. That's their main thing. Uh,

445
00:30:40,015 --> 00:30:42,912
let's see. Should have pulled that article. Yeah, chat is

446
00:30:42,973 --> 00:30:47,406
dead. OpenAI preps an overhaul of chat GPT. So basically

447
00:30:47,447 --> 00:30:56,322
they're saying... that The chat bot aspect, let's see, OpenAI

448
00:30:56,443 --> 00:30:59,375
is preparing the biggest overall chat GPT since its launch

449
00:30:59,436 --> 00:31:02,673
kicked off. Blah, blah, blah. The company intends to transform

450
00:31:02,693 --> 00:31:06,883
the chatbot into a, quote, super app, unquote. They're using

451
00:31:06,923 --> 00:31:10,492
the Elon Musk super app moniker. Oh, very fun. Yeah.

452
00:31:10,512 --> 00:31:14,061
That combines coding tools and AI agents adding products that

453
00:31:14,121 --> 00:31:21,081
executives believe will generate more revenue. More tokenage. Yeah, so

454
00:31:21,743 --> 00:31:26,615
chat is dead, said one senior OpenAI employee. OpenAI executives

455
00:31:26,655 --> 00:31:29,543
increasingly view chat GPT, which has attracted nearly a billion

456
00:31:29,623 --> 00:31:33,533
users, as a gateway to introduce users to higher value

457
00:31:33,593 --> 00:31:40,359
products. Chat is dead. Long live Fireside. So. Zik. The

458
00:31:40,540 --> 00:31:46,589
issue that I see after the WWDC stuff this week,

459
00:31:46,609 --> 00:31:49,694
which seemed pretty underwhelming, it didn't even, what I was

460
00:31:49,734 --> 00:31:52,077
reading about it, I didn't even want to look at

461
00:31:52,137 --> 00:31:54,922
the keynote or what used to be a keynote, which

462
00:31:54,982 --> 00:32:01,496
is now like still a COVID era based video. My...

463
00:32:02,235 --> 00:32:06,851
takeaway from that from WWDC was Totally different than yours.

464
00:32:07,192 --> 00:32:08,817
Okay. Well, I didn't see it. I didn't see it.

465
00:32:08,837 --> 00:32:10,582
So this is just the reporting that I got. I

466
00:32:10,622 --> 00:32:13,190
didn't see it. I look what Spurlock said. I'm like,

467
00:32:13,451 --> 00:32:15,894
well, that doesn't sound very exciting. Well, a lot of

468
00:32:15,934 --> 00:32:19,616
people were saying that it was boring, but... The boringness

469
00:32:19,697 --> 00:32:22,830
of it. that may have been true, but the... The

470
00:32:23,132 --> 00:32:27,120
impact of it, I think, is going to reverberate. It's...

471
00:32:27,507 --> 00:32:31,183
I think we just... What, I think we just witnessed?

472
00:32:32,243 --> 00:32:36,139
with what Apple is doing with AI? Can I tell

473
00:32:36,159 --> 00:32:37,846
you what I hoped for? And then you tell me

474
00:32:37,886 --> 00:32:42,004
what happened. What I was hoping for. was for them

475
00:32:42,065 --> 00:32:45,010
to say, look at our machines. These are the best

476
00:32:45,090 --> 00:32:52,284
machines with unified memory. You'll run our MLX LMNOP agent.

477
00:32:52,465 --> 00:32:56,733
It will create anything you need, software. It'll be your

478
00:32:56,873 --> 00:32:59,538
all-in-one box. That's what I was hoping to hear, and

479
00:32:59,578 --> 00:33:03,091
I didn't. get any takeaway from the postings or articles.

480
00:33:04,791 --> 00:33:07,259
There's a lot of that, what you just described. A

481
00:33:07,319 --> 00:33:10,449
lot of that is in the individual developer sessions, which

482
00:33:10,469 --> 00:33:13,779
you can watch on YouTube. Okay. There's a lot of...

483
00:33:14,167 --> 00:33:18,603
dedicated sessions. that show you how to get the most

484
00:33:18,805 --> 00:33:23,211
out of MLX. for local models, even going, there's even

485
00:33:23,251 --> 00:33:28,166
sessions on. chaining Mac minis together to get parallel processing.

486
00:33:28,528 --> 00:33:31,927
They went pretty in-depth on that, on local model support.

487
00:33:32,827 --> 00:33:36,453
So I don't think that that part was a disappointment

488
00:33:36,494 --> 00:33:41,528
at all. Okay. I think the... The takeaway that I

489
00:33:41,609 --> 00:33:48,761
had overall... is that they just rug pulled. big LLM

490
00:33:49,023 --> 00:33:53,600
model providers. Ooh, well that's good. Because what did they

491
00:33:53,641 --> 00:33:57,580
just-- so they are hosting their own models in Google's

492
00:33:57,620 --> 00:34:05,923
cloud. And... with privacy, they say Google cannot even access

493
00:34:05,963 --> 00:34:14,951
the data. And so there, if what they demoed. actually

494
00:34:15,032 --> 00:34:21,464
works? and worked well? Nobody will ever use... chat GPT.

495
00:34:22,299 --> 00:34:27,637
chatbot again. Why would you? Wow. Can I play some

496
00:34:27,698 --> 00:34:32,888
clips about this when you're done with your... Your analysis.

497
00:34:33,467 --> 00:34:39,534
Yeah, so if... If the... Hundreds of millions of iPhone

498
00:34:39,635 --> 00:34:44,450
users suddenly can just pull down their Siri button and

499
00:34:44,530 --> 00:34:47,397
say, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. The thing

500
00:34:47,437 --> 00:34:50,304
they would say to a chat GPT chat bot in

501
00:34:50,344 --> 00:34:54,632
the past or anthropic or whatever. Which is still the

502
00:34:54,773 --> 00:34:58,088
predominant way that most people interact with these AI model

503
00:34:58,128 --> 00:35:02,887
providers like Anthropic and OpenAI. If they can do that,

504
00:35:03,371 --> 00:35:06,974
Why would they ever pay for ChatGPT or even think

505
00:35:07,035 --> 00:35:13,503
about it? It's over. It's just over. Because Android will

506
00:35:13,543 --> 00:35:18,316
then do the same thing. And it's done. You have

507
00:35:18,357 --> 00:35:22,879
no more reason for open AI. And Claude and Anthropic

508
00:35:22,919 --> 00:35:27,638
to even exist. So Jensen Wang, who for purposes of

509
00:35:27,678 --> 00:35:31,604
this discussion I'll call Jensen Jobs. Because, man, he wears

510
00:35:32,146 --> 00:35:35,176
the leather jacket and he tries to do one more

511
00:35:35,277 --> 00:35:37,946
thing and he says, but there's more. So he did

512
00:35:37,966 --> 00:35:40,556
this big thing in Korea, I think. It's a big

513
00:35:40,596 --> 00:35:46,175
computing conference. And he went through. 87 minutes of this

514
00:35:46,275 --> 00:35:49,365
chip and that chip and this partnership and this great

515
00:35:49,425 --> 00:35:52,755
and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

516
00:35:52,835 --> 00:35:57,705
blah But then the last three minutes. He does this.

517
00:35:58,027 --> 00:36:01,619
But that's not all. That's not all. One more thing!

518
00:36:01,691 --> 00:36:06,488
RTX Spark is a reinvention. of laptop. But in fact...

519
00:36:06,508 --> 00:36:09,817
Laptop. It's a reinvention of laptop. Not of a laptop.

520
00:36:09,938 --> 00:36:15,893
It's like iPhone. It's like iPhone. It's laptop. Laptop. Of

521
00:36:15,933 --> 00:36:21,135
laptop. But in fact, Microsoft NVIDIA is reinventing all of

522
00:36:21,215 --> 00:36:25,464
PC. And today we're announcing... A whole new line. Three

523
00:36:25,504 --> 00:36:33,519
revolutionary Windows machines covering desktop. laptop, and workstations, all 100%

524
00:36:33,980 --> 00:36:41,165
Windows compatible, 100% CUDA, 100% NVIDIA AI TensorCore. Everything that

525
00:36:41,248 --> 00:36:43,803
runs that you see that runs on NVIDIA and all

526
00:36:43,843 --> 00:36:47,410
these different platforms around the world runs here. This is

527
00:36:47,450 --> 00:36:54,043
the first completely re-engineered, re-invented line of PCs that has

528
00:36:54,083 --> 00:36:56,989
happened in 40 years. Okay, so this had my attention,

529
00:36:57,009 --> 00:36:59,093
although I'm like, okay, right, you've got a partnership with

530
00:36:59,173 --> 00:37:02,612
Windows, blah, blah, whatever. But then... This agent... could run

531
00:37:02,632 --> 00:37:05,736
24 seven meter free. And you could download your agent.

532
00:37:05,916 --> 00:37:08,500
You could raise your lobster in here. This is your

533
00:37:08,540 --> 00:37:13,047
claw. It's running all the time. No meter anxiety. And

534
00:37:13,067 --> 00:37:16,051
it's sitting here connected to your whole house, connected to

535
00:37:16,111 --> 00:37:19,796
your laptop. Now, so this I'm like, wow, okay. That's

536
00:37:19,876 --> 00:37:23,413
exactly what I've been waiting for. No meter anxiety. It's

537
00:37:23,493 --> 00:37:27,679
running locally. But then the guy, he gets nutty. Connected

538
00:37:27,699 --> 00:37:33,187
to your display, all the cameras, your dryer, your water

539
00:37:33,247 --> 00:37:38,394
cooler. What? You're trying. What? What? My water cooler? What?

540
00:37:38,634 --> 00:37:42,436
No, what? Everything, whatever you want. Your security system. all

541
00:37:42,476 --> 00:37:44,947
connected to this. Who gives a crap about that? And

542
00:37:44,987 --> 00:37:50,071
this becomes your personal AI, your personal AI agent. And

543
00:37:50,111 --> 00:37:53,019
it gets smarter and smarter and smarter over time because

544
00:37:53,279 --> 00:37:56,147
today we have Nemotron 3 Ultra. Tomorrow we have Nemotron

545
00:37:56,167 --> 00:37:59,836
4. Nemotron 5. Nemotron 6. And we just keep getting

546
00:37:59,876 --> 00:38:02,392
it smarter and smarter and smarter. And meanwhile, this is

547
00:38:02,412 --> 00:38:05,051
sitting at home helping you do things. If you want

548
00:38:05,071 --> 00:38:07,991
to book a travel, no problem. Book a travel. And.

549
00:38:08,379 --> 00:38:14,515
If you want... an incredible system. This is a DGX

550
00:38:14,555 --> 00:38:18,559
station. for windows okay so he goes on about windows

551
00:38:18,619 --> 00:38:21,575
blah blah blah so i'm totally in on the whole

552
00:38:21,696 --> 00:38:23,884
idea And I don't know if he did this on

553
00:38:23,986 --> 00:38:28,138
purpose. But if he's an idiot? Or it just doesn't

554
00:38:28,399 --> 00:38:30,404
see an act because you talk, oh, I see your

555
00:38:30,465 --> 00:38:33,393
future. Oh, I see your future. And here's the, so

556
00:38:34,055 --> 00:38:36,201
I see your future. I'm like, yeah, yeah, I want

557
00:38:36,261 --> 00:38:39,030
something that just runs locally. No media anxiety. It big

558
00:38:39,150 --> 00:38:42,893
programs. It does stuff for me, creates applications. Oh, I

559
00:38:42,913 --> 00:38:45,228
can think of a million things to make my life

560
00:38:45,308 --> 00:38:48,589
better with that. But here's his vision. Something is happening

561
00:38:48,629 --> 00:38:53,089
here. Yes. Remember. 15, 20 years ago, we used to

562
00:38:53,129 --> 00:38:56,319
have an idea called a phone. Today, we have an

563
00:38:56,399 --> 00:38:59,328
idea called a PC. Today, when you think about your

564
00:38:59,408 --> 00:39:01,756
phone, the one thing you don't do with it is

565
00:39:01,856 --> 00:39:05,651
make phone calls. You do just about everything else. And

566
00:39:05,691 --> 00:39:09,197
so that phone means something very different to you than

567
00:39:09,237 --> 00:39:11,741
a phone of the past. It's kind of insulting to

568
00:39:12,322 --> 00:39:15,387
technical people, but okay. I am certain what's going to

569
00:39:15,427 --> 00:39:18,572
happen here is that the PC 10 years from now

570
00:39:18,833 --> 00:39:21,577
and the PC that you think about today, a tool

571
00:39:21,918 --> 00:39:26,354
where the you. Launch applications. Click and type. And this

572
00:39:26,455 --> 00:39:30,796
PC is going to be completely different. Here's my theory.

573
00:39:31,402 --> 00:39:34,846
I can totally imagine Just as every house today has

574
00:39:34,866 --> 00:39:37,578
a home theater. Do you have a home theater, Dave?

575
00:39:37,598 --> 00:39:40,912
Oh, yeah. Yeah, I got three. Do you have like

576
00:39:41,013 --> 00:39:44,325
seats that recline with the. cup holders and everything. Yeah.

577
00:39:45,028 --> 00:39:47,396
I've got a podcast room with my food that is

578
00:39:47,416 --> 00:39:49,724
currently sitting on the floor. I have a big TV.

579
00:39:49,744 --> 00:39:51,209
I don't know if that counts. Where many houses have

580
00:39:51,249 --> 00:39:57,160
home theaters. Big TVs. Lawnmowers. Dishwashers. Dishwashers. I could totally

581
00:39:57,240 --> 00:40:00,774
imagine that someday there's actually an AI supercomputer in your

582
00:40:00,814 --> 00:40:04,584
house. Uh-huh. running all of your agents it's running all

583
00:40:04,604 --> 00:40:06,909
of your assistants what's it doing and they're doing all

584
00:40:06,969 --> 00:40:09,534
kinds of things for you all the time and you

585
00:40:09,594 --> 00:40:11,478
have to have it in your house just like you

586
00:40:11,498 --> 00:40:13,321
have a home theater in your house you have stereos

587
00:40:13,382 --> 00:40:15,746
in your house you have game consoles in your house

588
00:40:15,826 --> 00:40:19,293
computer in your house brought to you by rss.com the

589
00:40:19,354 --> 00:40:21,798
only thing he's missing is saying it will know when

590
00:40:21,818 --> 00:40:24,049
your milk is out in the refrigerator, it will order

591
00:40:24,090 --> 00:40:26,824
the milk and it will automatically get replenished, which has

592
00:40:26,865 --> 00:40:32,495
been the promise since 1997. This is dumb. It's dumb,

593
00:40:32,515 --> 00:40:35,976
but... But he is showing us where they're going. They're

594
00:40:36,036 --> 00:40:38,906
already thinking, hey, man, we're not going to be relying

595
00:40:39,027 --> 00:40:42,905
on these local models, on these large language models. what

596
00:40:42,925 --> 00:40:48,551
do they call them? Model labs. Foundation Labs. You know

597
00:40:48,592 --> 00:40:51,006
why they did all that? I think they are pivoting

598
00:40:51,107 --> 00:40:56,561
because... They, because the bubble's already popped. Ooh. Ooh. It's

599
00:40:56,642 --> 00:41:01,667
already, Apple popped it. Mmm. Apple popped the bubble. They

600
00:41:01,768 --> 00:41:06,332
knew it was coming. The open AI and chat. So

601
00:41:06,532 --> 00:41:09,757
in order to be, Ed Zitron has done this work.

602
00:41:09,998 --> 00:41:14,425
Zitron is awesome. He's hilarious. So he's done this work

603
00:41:14,665 --> 00:41:20,715
in the financials of open AI and Anthropic. They need

604
00:41:20,775 --> 00:41:25,997
to have 200 billion. year in revenue. Yeah. by the

605
00:41:26,099 --> 00:41:32,122
end of 2027. To be sustainable as companies. They have

606
00:41:32,162 --> 00:41:42,712
$1.1 trillion in compute commits. And that is our, that's

607
00:41:42,753 --> 00:41:47,104
money that has. already been spent. Yeah, right. And so...

608
00:41:47,587 --> 00:41:53,279
What NVIDIA sees is that that model of being a

609
00:41:53,339 --> 00:41:58,068
large inference provider is no longer sustainable. That is not

610
00:41:58,169 --> 00:42:01,275
a valid business model that will proceed beyond the next

611
00:42:01,355 --> 00:42:06,983
two years. Right. And so they are. pivoting to PCs.

612
00:42:07,003 --> 00:42:13,171
They're pivoting to cram AI into laptops. Laptops. Yes. What

613
00:42:13,653 --> 00:42:18,253
do we need? Laptop. That's what we need in order

614
00:42:18,293 --> 00:42:22,676
to keep this thing going because NVIDIA is the one

615
00:42:22,716 --> 00:42:25,577
that comes out. smelling like a rose every single time

616
00:42:25,638 --> 00:42:28,640
because they make the chip. Yeah, of course. And they

617
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:30,263
can just stick it anywhere. They can stick it in

618
00:42:30,344 --> 00:42:33,551
laptop. They can stick it in refrigerator. They can stick

619
00:42:33,611 --> 00:42:39,725
it in washer and dryer. In dryer. Yeah, they can

620
00:42:39,745 --> 00:42:44,145
stick it in bicycle. They can put... They can put

621
00:42:44,186 --> 00:42:47,118
chips everywhere. I love that. They don't care what it

622
00:42:47,238 --> 00:42:49,206
is. We just got to keep talking like this. They

623
00:42:49,226 --> 00:42:54,737
can stick it in app. App. They can stick it

624
00:42:54,817 --> 00:43:01,081
in keyboard? Mouse. Stick it in mouse. Mouse. AI mouse.

625
00:43:01,101 --> 00:43:08,252
Reinventing mouse. And that's all they need. That's all they

626
00:43:08,292 --> 00:43:10,698
need is a place to stick a chip. And they'll

627
00:43:10,758 --> 00:43:16,855
do it. In head, we put a chip. We're going

628
00:43:16,895 --> 00:43:21,956
to reinvent head. Which is what the 80s did, but

629
00:43:22,929 --> 00:43:27,421
that's another story. you I make the jokes around here.

630
00:43:29,887 --> 00:43:36,562
But the bubble has popped. That is a bold statement.

631
00:43:36,843 --> 00:43:44,844
Bold statement. And Apple, mark my words, when they... Release.

632
00:43:46,255 --> 00:43:52,616
the the ai enabled siri That's the end of this

633
00:43:53,060 --> 00:43:57,818
whole experiment. It just is because then the only people

634
00:43:57,879 --> 00:44:02,225
that will be left who are paying. for inference are

635
00:44:02,245 --> 00:44:07,084
going to be API users. Right. Idiots. Which is not

636
00:44:07,124 --> 00:44:09,335
a sustainable business. It's not enough money. No. It's just

637
00:44:09,395 --> 00:44:15,813
not. No. It's not. It's like... I just... I cannot

638
00:44:16,256 --> 00:44:19,599
wait for the bubble to, for this whole thing to

639
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:24,387
unravel. Because the sooner we can just... Get rid of

640
00:44:24,428 --> 00:44:31,506
all this nonsense. and all the marketing Prap. and just

641
00:44:31,646 --> 00:44:34,875
get down to brass tacks. So are you currently doing

642
00:44:35,878 --> 00:44:39,808
any coding that you're using AI for? You're doing that

643
00:44:39,909 --> 00:44:48,320
with laptop? You're doing that with RSS? RSS-DGX computer. Yeah,

644
00:44:48,340 --> 00:44:53,427
with the desktop. So I'm doing, it's about. I'm using

645
00:44:53,467 --> 00:45:00,378
the DGX for Inference for everything podcast index related. Wow.

646
00:45:00,821 --> 00:45:04,924
That's code as code. That's Quinn three six. 20 billion.

647
00:45:05,567 --> 00:45:14,458
Quinn3635B. A3B MOE model. What agent? Pie. Pie, right. And

648
00:45:14,478 --> 00:45:20,635
you've customized that. Right. Everything else I'm still using just...

649
00:45:21,311 --> 00:45:23,587
clawed just because I've already got stuff. built up in

650
00:45:23,627 --> 00:45:26,485
those memory files and all that kind of stuff. But,

651
00:45:27,090 --> 00:45:31,083
and, and honestly it's get while the getting's good. Yeah.

652
00:45:31,983 --> 00:45:39,660
Because this... I think the anthropic strategy is clearly. Go

653
00:45:40,145 --> 00:45:45,488
public, put money in pocket. But yeah, NVIDIA put chip

654
00:45:45,528 --> 00:45:49,928
in laptop. Yeah. Anthropic, put money in pockets and get

655
00:45:49,968 --> 00:45:54,652
the hell out of Dodge as fast as possible. But.

656
00:45:55,487 --> 00:46:00,389
Their model – model, bad use of terms – but

657
00:46:01,112 --> 00:46:05,614
their strategy is – to me is clear. They're going

658
00:46:05,674 --> 00:46:10,349
to, they introduce more and more big scary models that

659
00:46:10,369 --> 00:46:13,883
we can't let you use for very long. Because they're

660
00:46:13,923 --> 00:46:19,064
so powerful, it'll, like, kill children. That was the stupidest

661
00:46:19,164 --> 00:46:23,586
marketing ploy ever. Well, they did it again. They did

662
00:46:23,626 --> 00:46:26,581
it with Fable 5. Well, Fable 5 is the artist

663
00:46:26,621 --> 00:46:31,108
formerly known as Mythos. Yeah, they're going to dump the

664
00:46:31,609 --> 00:46:34,336
fable. So they released fable five and they're like, well,

665
00:46:34,397 --> 00:46:36,582
this look, this thing is so powerful. You got to

666
00:46:36,622 --> 00:46:39,169
pay extra for it. You got to switch to let

667
00:46:39,189 --> 00:46:41,515
you get a switch to API based billing. Oh, is

668
00:46:41,555 --> 00:46:43,854
that is that the only way to access? You have

669
00:46:43,875 --> 00:46:47,450
to use it via API. You get two weeks free

670
00:46:47,610 --> 00:46:51,177
and then it goes token-based billing for Fable 5. Wow.

671
00:46:52,139 --> 00:46:56,467
Yep. Yeah. Well, API. They're going to push everybody to

672
00:46:56,488 --> 00:46:58,692
token-based billing, but they can't come out and say it

673
00:46:58,772 --> 00:47:01,237
because they're going to lose customers. So what they have

674
00:47:01,277 --> 00:47:04,211
to do is say. If you want our best model.

675
00:47:04,727 --> 00:47:07,324
you got to go to token-based billing. And really their

676
00:47:07,686 --> 00:47:11,004
quote best model. It's just sort of like a rehash

677
00:47:11,568 --> 00:47:14,525
of the existing model, except it uses more tokens. But

678
00:47:14,646 --> 00:47:18,557
cyber. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Now this, this whole thing's

679
00:47:18,617 --> 00:47:22,095
a joke and it's the, I'm so ready for it

680
00:47:22,115 --> 00:47:26,503
to be over. But the warning stands. If you have

681
00:47:26,583 --> 00:47:35,425
built a podcast product... using APIs. You better be using

682
00:47:35,466 --> 00:47:41,159
some sort of flexible. API router where you can switch

683
00:47:41,341 --> 00:47:47,125
over to different providers. or find a plan B because

684
00:47:47,185 --> 00:47:50,317
if you're, if you're, if your backend relies on chat

685
00:47:50,498 --> 00:47:57,511
GPT or Claude. Boo. It's not... You better have a

686
00:47:57,552 --> 00:48:02,263
plan B. Right. Because those are not sustainable business models.

687
00:48:02,875 --> 00:48:09,340
They're just not. Okay. I mean, I... I think we've

688
00:48:09,401 --> 00:48:16,309
exhausted the topic. I'm tired now. I I mean, I've

689
00:48:16,349 --> 00:48:18,619
got, I had some clips on it, but I think

690
00:48:18,659 --> 00:48:20,667
I'm just going to jettison those clips because it's the

691
00:48:20,707 --> 00:48:24,772
same crap that everybody already knows. Okay. you know and

692
00:48:26,151 --> 00:48:29,441
And, you know, like me and you talked about. The

693
00:48:29,501 --> 00:48:33,233
real issue here is not... The real issue here is

694
00:48:33,253 --> 00:48:37,338
that these large companies. These large tech companies, they need

695
00:48:37,418 --> 00:48:42,643
this thing to work for themselves. You know, because they

696
00:48:42,684 --> 00:48:48,085
have financial... Their financial life is wrapped up in being

697
00:48:48,106 --> 00:48:52,167
able to fire people. Yeah, that's what they do. Yeah,

698
00:48:52,207 --> 00:48:56,670
they have to. Because the Google $80 billion equity raise,

699
00:48:56,951 --> 00:48:59,724
nobody talked about the fact that $40 billion of that

700
00:48:59,784 --> 00:49:02,939
was for payroll. Well, the No Agenda Show talked about

701
00:49:02,959 --> 00:49:05,311
it. about it because you told me about it and

702
00:49:05,452 --> 00:49:08,608
I talked about it so not nobody we're not anybody

703
00:49:08,930 --> 00:49:13,817
but or nobody 50% of the $80 billion was for

704
00:49:13,958 --> 00:49:20,063
payroll. Yeah. Does that make any sense for a company

705
00:49:20,104 --> 00:49:26,597
that... Literally Prince money. Money? Yeah. All is not well

706
00:49:26,658 --> 00:49:30,839
in the tech- in the tech financial world. It's just

707
00:49:30,881 --> 00:49:36,627
not. You want to talk about 30 seconds versus 60

708
00:49:36,668 --> 00:49:42,079
seconds? Oh, is this the amp thing? Well, Spotify has

709
00:49:42,140 --> 00:49:45,255
adopted it. That changes everything. You know, the super secret

710
00:49:45,296 --> 00:49:51,214
WhatsApp group is hilarious. Everyone keeps posting. Why? Because there's

711
00:49:51,274 --> 00:49:55,202
no actual conversation. I mean, there's still an ongoing thread

712
00:49:55,242 --> 00:49:59,451
about some doofus who says, I'm the podfather. And I

713
00:49:59,471 --> 00:50:02,778
haven't even said anything in this thread. Everyone's like, this

714
00:50:02,838 --> 00:50:04,704
guy's an idiot. This is no good. We already got

715
00:50:04,925 --> 00:50:06,793
one. We don't need another one. You know, it's like

716
00:50:07,054 --> 00:50:09,564
this, like all of these groups. And I say it

717
00:50:09,604 --> 00:50:13,514
with love and respect. They go nowhere. It's just like,

718
00:50:13,574 --> 00:50:17,629
you know, opinion, opinion, opinion, opinion. It's like a, maybe

719
00:50:17,650 --> 00:50:19,256
I should turn it into a podcast. Let's see what

720
00:50:19,296 --> 00:50:25,549
that sounds like. Turn that WhatsApp thread into a... podcast,

721
00:50:25,569 --> 00:50:28,104
but they're not really discussed. Well, I got to add

722
00:50:28,144 --> 00:50:30,216
this guy. Hey, someone's over from Amazon is here. Okay.

723
00:50:30,236 --> 00:50:32,886
Well, that's going to fix the problem. you know, the

724
00:50:32,927 --> 00:50:39,160
Podcast Data Collective, which... It was interesting to hear. Um...

725
00:50:40,283 --> 00:50:44,245
Sam and James' thoughts on that. I don't know if

726
00:50:44,286 --> 00:50:45,951
you listen to power, you probably don't have time for

727
00:50:46,012 --> 00:50:52,200
power. I listened to a little bit of it. I

728
00:50:52,220 --> 00:50:57,895
don't know, man. I've got... I've got mixed feelings on

729
00:50:57,956 --> 00:51:01,389
it. On what? On the whole idea? On the collective,

730
00:51:01,409 --> 00:51:03,055
yeah. Well, if you're not going to do it, it

731
00:51:03,095 --> 00:51:06,636
won't happen, so that's fine. Well, no, no, I'm... No,

732
00:51:06,756 --> 00:51:09,650
if you don't do it, it'll never happen. That's just...

733
00:51:09,691 --> 00:51:11,479
And I'm okay with that. I don't have ads. I

734
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:14,851
don't care. But I also understand why you'd be like,

735
00:51:15,254 --> 00:51:16,950
I don't feel like getting into it or doing it.

736
00:51:16,990 --> 00:51:21,082
I get it. I feel like it's a worthwhile thing

737
00:51:21,123 --> 00:51:24,997
to do and I'm open to it. I keep. having

738
00:51:25,825 --> 00:51:31,805
I keep having these thoughts like you know, is I

739
00:51:31,825 --> 00:51:34,706
don't know, I just, I'm afraid. I'm afraid participation is

740
00:51:34,746 --> 00:51:36,259
just going to be so hard. I mean, we have

741
00:51:36,299 --> 00:51:41,770
developers. It's like hurting cats. you know, and... I'm afraid

742
00:51:41,810 --> 00:51:44,623
it's just going to be like a huge. endeavor to

743
00:51:44,683 --> 00:51:48,123
try to get people on board. I think I'm just,

744
00:51:48,143 --> 00:51:54,220
I think I'm sort of like, A little bit down

745
00:51:54,261 --> 00:52:01,849
on life. No, no. No. I think I'm a little

746
00:52:01,889 --> 00:52:07,840
bit down on new... pushing new endeavors because of The

747
00:52:07,940 --> 00:52:12,637
reaction to the HTTP signing thing. Oh, I like everything

748
00:52:12,657 --> 00:52:18,070
that was going on. Oh, what was the negativity? I

749
00:52:18,090 --> 00:52:20,525
like the whole idea. I don't know. What is the

750
00:52:20,727 --> 00:52:26,183
actual... Negative pushback. Why am I in the minority? What

751
00:52:26,223 --> 00:52:31,415
is the... What is the... the issue. Well, I mean,

752
00:52:31,455 --> 00:52:35,676
nobody wants... Nobody wants signing. Not nobody, but I mean,

753
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:39,988
a majority of people... Because they're afraid it will be

754
00:52:40,089 --> 00:52:43,584
used to block certain hosts and or apps. Is that

755
00:52:43,625 --> 00:52:48,424
the bottom line? Yeah. Oh, okay. Well, I mean, one

756
00:52:48,504 --> 00:52:51,252
big thing I did this week was I put... put

757
00:52:51,332 --> 00:52:58,084
signing into our aggregators. Now, signing is something that Cloudflare

758
00:52:58,185 --> 00:53:02,849
already uses, correct? Yeah, because say, okay, so what I

759
00:53:02,890 --> 00:53:08,082
did this week. Um... What Dave did this week. Well,

760
00:53:08,183 --> 00:53:10,608
Eric, I mean, what you're saying, Eric said, was it

761
00:53:10,669 --> 00:53:13,275
negative? There was criticism of the idea, but I don't

762
00:53:13,295 --> 00:53:16,129
think it was negative. I mean... It's hard to not

763
00:53:16,230 --> 00:53:19,999
take it negative. What I mean by negative is like.

764
00:53:20,835 --> 00:53:24,083
is the fact that when you... When the proposal came

765
00:53:24,165 --> 00:53:27,372
out, it was like... I will die before I will

766
00:53:27,412 --> 00:53:33,671
put this in my app. Who said that? Marco and

767
00:53:33,752 --> 00:53:37,763
then other people shared. Other people sort of shared the...

768
00:53:38,185 --> 00:53:40,331
I will die before I put this in my head.

769
00:53:41,103 --> 00:53:43,419
Yeah, and other people shared the sentiment, and I'm not.

770
00:53:43,427 --> 00:53:46,022
They are welcome to their opinion. That is not the

771
00:53:46,062 --> 00:53:50,338
problem. Was this a GitHub thing? Oh yeah, yeah. Oh

772
00:53:50,358 --> 00:53:52,734
yeah. See, I'm a happy guy because I don't go

773
00:53:52,815 --> 00:53:58,450
on GitHub. *laughs* I think the The issue, though, that

774
00:53:58,552 --> 00:54:04,556
was. that It was just... There was such a, like,

775
00:54:04,576 --> 00:54:07,337
there was no discussion, really. It was like, not doing

776
00:54:07,397 --> 00:54:13,161
it, see ya. Right. And so. I mean, there was

777
00:54:13,865 --> 00:54:16,639
lively beneficial debate back and forth, and just like we

778
00:54:16,679 --> 00:54:20,053
talked about with Spurlock last week. But there was this

779
00:54:20,377 --> 00:54:24,517
strong sentiment from... you know, John and Marco and others

780
00:54:24,578 --> 00:54:28,902
that were like, this This can't, no, we're not doing

781
00:54:28,942 --> 00:54:34,900
this. This is just not a good idea. So... I

782
00:54:34,941 --> 00:54:38,571
was, so then we've, I've been fighting this problem with

783
00:54:38,611 --> 00:54:44,282
the aggregator. Yeah. People don't understand your particular pain. They

784
00:54:44,302 --> 00:54:47,402
don't have your pain. And I don't have theirs, to

785
00:54:47,442 --> 00:54:49,526
be fair. You know, I don't have their pain either.

786
00:54:49,546 --> 00:54:52,172
You mean they're actually making money and you're not? That's

787
00:54:52,252 --> 00:54:55,720
painful for them? Well, Spurlock's not making a dime. He's

788
00:54:55,780 --> 00:55:05,045
losing money just like us. Yeah. But... So The problem

789
00:55:05,066 --> 00:55:11,352
we have with the aggregator... is that we get... We

790
00:55:11,372 --> 00:55:15,028
get blocked through Cloudflare sometimes. Now, I don't know if

791
00:55:15,088 --> 00:55:17,719
that's what this latest issue I've been fighting is because

792
00:55:17,759 --> 00:55:20,611
part of it makes no sense. That's the 415 error.

793
00:55:20,967 --> 00:55:25,659
Yes. an invalid media type, which is a very, that

794
00:55:25,679 --> 00:55:30,380
would be a very strange error to give back. If

795
00:55:30,460 --> 00:55:34,307
it thought that you were a bot, like, why 4.15?

796
00:55:34,695 --> 00:55:41,137
There's like 403s, 401s. What does 415 stand for? Invalid

797
00:55:41,177 --> 00:55:43,486
media. Invalid media time. I want to ask the book

798
00:55:43,526 --> 00:55:46,776
of knowledge. Book of knowledge. What does the HTTP error

799
00:55:46,837 --> 00:55:50,448
code 415 stand for? I just like listening to the

800
00:55:50,468 --> 00:55:53,384
book of knowledge. Let's see what the book of knowledge

801
00:55:53,445 --> 00:55:58,481
says. According to the book of knowledge, HTTP error code

802
00:55:58,501 --> 00:56:04,041
415 means unsupported media type. The server cannot process the

803
00:56:04,101 --> 00:56:07,353
media format of the requested data, such as when a

804
00:56:07,434 --> 00:56:12,030
client sends JSON, but the server only accepts XML. Hmm,

805
00:56:12,050 --> 00:56:16,802
there it is. Thus... It has been written. Well, see,

806
00:56:16,823 --> 00:56:20,067
and a 415 usually shows up with a post request.

807
00:56:20,807 --> 00:56:24,675
But I'm getting 415s on GIFs. requests. And so there's

808
00:56:24,735 --> 00:56:28,563
not even a media type that's included. There's no body.

809
00:56:29,751 --> 00:56:34,675
There's no body at all. So it's just a URL.

810
00:56:35,511 --> 00:56:39,960
So the whole thing's very strange, and... And John, as

811
00:56:40,364 --> 00:56:44,940
Spurlock goes, I will. Maybe ACF, maybe Cloudflare considers you

812
00:56:44,961 --> 00:56:47,910
to be a bot. You're no good. You're just a

813
00:56:47,971 --> 00:56:50,579
bot, man. You're a bot. A malicious bot. A bot,

814
00:56:50,599 --> 00:56:54,573
yeah. I'm like, well, I mean, maybe. But 4.15, that's

815
00:56:54,613 --> 00:56:58,364
a weird one. So I was like, well, okay. Why

816
00:56:58,384 --> 00:57:01,674
don't we do this? If there's a chance, so I

817
00:57:01,715 --> 00:57:04,999
did some. I did some checking. I did some curling.

818
00:57:05,547 --> 00:57:16,614
What user agent? PHP library? Various user agents impersonating all

819
00:57:16,675 --> 00:57:20,254
kinds of things. And so I did the same set

820
00:57:20,294 --> 00:57:26,092
of curls from my local machine. And from... the one

821
00:57:26,112 --> 00:57:33,453
of the aggregator boxes at Linode. If I set my

822
00:57:33,614 --> 00:57:39,267
user agent to be a browser, from a local machine.

823
00:57:40,711 --> 00:57:44,881
I got a 200 and not a 415. And this

824
00:57:44,901 --> 00:57:48,059
is to one specific, this is, this happened on two

825
00:57:48,119 --> 00:57:51,129
different feeds. One of them was cast a pod. And

826
00:57:51,291 --> 00:57:54,199
one of them was a WordPress install. So they're different

827
00:57:54,219 --> 00:57:57,952
platforms. So this is, I think, what led John to

828
00:57:57,992 --> 00:58:01,619
think, well, maybe this is Cloudflare giving you a finger.

829
00:58:01,599 --> 00:58:07,204
Yeah, he's giving you static. Mm-hmm. And so then I

830
00:58:07,244 --> 00:58:11,031
did the same set of tests on. The Linode host

831
00:58:11,233 --> 00:58:14,839
and everything produced a 415, no matter what I did.

832
00:58:15,899 --> 00:58:18,913
And so I was like, well, okay, maybe it is

833
00:58:18,953 --> 00:58:25,308
Cloudflare. and So I submitted. the podcast index aggregator to

834
00:58:25,369 --> 00:58:30,567
their verified bots program. Heard nothing back for a couple

835
00:58:30,608 --> 00:58:35,155
of days. and then found through some google searches that

836
00:58:36,599 --> 00:58:40,188
People routinely submit to the Verified Bots program and don't

837
00:58:40,229 --> 00:58:43,699
hear anything back for quote weeks or months. Oh, brother.

838
00:58:44,471 --> 00:58:47,962
So I was like, well, okay, maybe let's try a

839
00:58:48,022 --> 00:58:50,951
different approach. You can, you can have a, their verified

840
00:58:51,232 --> 00:58:54,282
bots program has two, has two different routes you can

841
00:58:54,322 --> 00:58:57,895
take. You can submit your user agent plus your known

842
00:58:57,975 --> 00:59:03,293
IP addresses. as a combo. And saying, you know, here's

843
00:59:03,333 --> 00:59:04,984
my bot. Here's what the user entry is going to

844
00:59:05,024 --> 00:59:07,017
be. Here's all the IP addresses that the traffic is

845
00:59:07,037 --> 00:59:09,259
going to come from. This is how you know it's

846
00:59:09,362 --> 00:59:12,282
me. And in order to do that, you have to

847
00:59:12,343 --> 00:59:15,918
have public descriptions of your bot, public IP lists, all

848
00:59:15,978 --> 00:59:17,887
this kind of stuff. I did all that documentation, got

849
00:59:17,967 --> 00:59:21,302
all that stuff submitted. Well, that didn't work. The other

850
00:59:21,463 --> 00:59:25,424
option is to do signing. You can do a verified

851
00:59:25,485 --> 00:59:29,849
bot through what they call their web bot auth. Off.

852
00:59:29,869 --> 00:59:37,005
Program. Off. Off. Auth. Yes, got it. A-U-T-H. Yeah. Which

853
00:59:37,065 --> 00:59:39,832
is just HTTP signing, which is what we brought up

854
00:59:39,933 --> 00:59:44,486
in... Yeah, it's exactly that. Yes, got it. So I

855
00:59:44,527 --> 00:59:48,110
thought, okay, well, let's see how this works. So I

856
00:59:48,190 --> 00:59:52,980
will eat my own dog food since I support the

857
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:59,002
idea of HTTP signing. I will. Harm myself. For the

858
00:59:59,084 --> 01:00:03,706
benefit of the cause. Yes. For the group. For the

859
01:00:03,746 --> 01:00:06,112
group. For the team. I will take one for the

860
01:00:06,132 --> 01:00:12,670
team. Yes. And I will... do the signing stuff. because

861
01:00:12,711 --> 01:00:17,234
I've already written signing code before. That's in the podcast

862
01:00:17,295 --> 01:00:20,814
index. Copy paste. Just a copy paste. Another copy paste

863
01:00:20,834 --> 01:00:25,238
in your life. Yes. In the Activity Pub Podcast Index

864
01:00:25,259 --> 01:00:33,820
Activity Pub Bridge. Since Mastodon requires... HTTP signing. I already

865
01:00:33,860 --> 01:00:35,888
had all that code. So I'm like, okay, this is

866
01:00:35,928 --> 01:00:38,278
pretty much, it's pretty much the same thing, but with

867
01:00:38,338 --> 01:00:42,120
a little bit of, with some wrinkles. So I got...

868
01:00:42,319 --> 01:00:47,119
I got the coding agent to go out and Look

869
01:00:47,139 --> 01:00:49,254
at all the code for the podcast that I had

870
01:00:49,294 --> 01:00:52,996
previously written because I'm like. This was the aggregators written

871
01:00:53,036 --> 01:00:54,859
in rust that other codes written in rust should be

872
01:00:54,919 --> 01:00:57,572
just a. You know, rut the rust to get in

873
01:00:57,592 --> 01:01:02,805
there. Buttabing. Yep. Right in there. Uh, it- It sucked

874
01:01:02,846 --> 01:01:07,415
it in, did the thing. looked at the Cloudflare documentation,

875
01:01:07,475 --> 01:01:10,389
and then made all the necessary changes so that we

876
01:01:10,429 --> 01:01:15,076
could publish the public keys and the correct... format that

877
01:01:15,097 --> 01:01:19,605
then Cloudflare could verify against. So it did all that

878
01:01:19,686 --> 01:01:23,619
work. I then had to go and... Stick the public

879
01:01:23,639 --> 01:01:31,442
keys into a .wellknown URL location on podcastindex.org website. Uh,

880
01:01:31,463 --> 01:01:38,662
that is... functioning now. Uh... for key verification. So now

881
01:01:38,702 --> 01:01:44,843
the aggregator. is signing all of its feed download requests.

882
01:01:45,871 --> 01:01:51,136
Submitted it again to Cloudflare, this time choosing the web

883
01:01:51,157 --> 01:01:56,663
bot auth. Keep signing. And since this all follows their

884
01:01:56,704 --> 01:02:02,167
proposal... This is what they want people to do. And

885
01:02:02,228 --> 01:02:09,157
it's all public and it should be. Immediately Automatable. I

886
01:02:09,237 --> 01:02:11,156
thought this must go pretty, this is probably gonna go

887
01:02:11,176 --> 01:02:15,007
pretty quick. It's been about a week, have not heard

888
01:02:15,067 --> 01:02:18,945
a peep. I was worried about that. We still do

889
01:02:18,985 --> 01:02:23,691
not show up on the verified bots list. for Cloudflare.

890
01:02:24,399 --> 01:02:29,211
Overcast is on there. Other podcast aggregators are on there.

891
01:02:29,673 --> 01:02:31,723
Oh, man. Not us. You're not in the app store.

892
01:02:32,495 --> 01:02:41,621
We... I don't know. So. But I do know... that

893
01:02:41,691 --> 01:02:45,088
We are now signing all of our HTTP requests. So

894
01:02:45,229 --> 01:02:48,884
all that code is, and of course, our aggregator is

895
01:02:48,945 --> 01:02:54,539
public. Our website code is public. Anybody can go and

896
01:02:54,580 --> 01:02:59,171
grab it. And start signing your traffic. Right. Because now

897
01:02:59,211 --> 01:03:02,706
all that code has been published. And you can do

898
01:03:02,790 --> 01:03:07,434
it. The next thing I'm going to do in order

899
01:03:07,515 --> 01:03:15,328
to continue eating my own dog food. is place HTTP

900
01:03:15,389 --> 01:03:21,641
signing for media downloads into. the Podcast Index website. So

901
01:03:21,682 --> 01:03:27,055
if you play an enclosure from our website. That request

902
01:03:27,722 --> 01:03:32,813
will now be signed. The reason I'm doing this is

903
01:03:32,874 --> 01:03:42,287
because... The most difficult. Um... Most diff- way to do

904
01:03:42,348 --> 01:03:45,720
this is in a web browser because You have such

905
01:03:46,002 --> 01:03:50,810
limited options when it comes to... signing, excuse me, when

906
01:03:50,850 --> 01:03:55,151
it comes to adding headers to. to an Ajax request.

907
01:03:57,555 --> 01:04:00,463
The browser does not want to let you have access.

908
01:04:00,979 --> 01:04:03,987
to add custom headers to those things. It's very limited.

909
01:04:04,759 --> 01:04:09,107
But you can. According. To the research I've done, you-

910
01:04:09,495 --> 01:04:13,147
There's a couple of ways around it. One of them

911
01:04:13,208 --> 01:04:17,968
is through a service worker. And so that is my

912
01:04:18,049 --> 01:04:24,459
next. project is to attempt. to add support. for HTTP

913
01:04:24,519 --> 01:04:30,419
signing, for media, for enclosure requests. to a website ours.

914
01:04:31,127 --> 01:04:35,699
in order to just prove that it works. I'll reintegrate,

915
01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:40,320
I'll reiterate what I said last week. I'm not gonna

916
01:04:40,401 --> 01:04:43,655
die on this hill. it's a thing that people seem

917
01:04:43,716 --> 01:04:51,323
to not want. bullet. If three years from now, abuse,

918
01:04:51,343 --> 01:04:56,942
abuse, abusive traffic becomes such a problem. Yeah. That, that,

919
01:04:57,323 --> 01:05:02,035
that this topic gets revisited. At that point. There will

920
01:05:02,095 --> 01:05:04,249
be working code that's out there that we can all

921
01:05:04,269 --> 01:05:05,758
just... Oh, I thought you were going to do an

922
01:05:05,940 --> 01:05:10,666
I told you so. No, I mean, I may, but

923
01:05:10,686 --> 01:05:15,854
that'll be a game time decision. Well, I think in

924
01:05:15,935 --> 01:05:19,028
general, the AMP group got what they wanted. They want

925
01:05:19,088 --> 01:05:22,321
more money. So they found the perfect solution. Let's take

926
01:05:22,361 --> 01:05:24,949
a play from 60 seconds to 30 seconds. So you'll

927
01:05:24,989 --> 01:05:28,681
have more plays. Butter bing. Everybody got more money overnight.

928
01:05:28,841 --> 01:05:34,976
It's perfect. It succeeded at its initial mission. I think

929
01:05:35,078 --> 01:05:39,703
James had... I think James was right that the play...

930
01:05:40,443 --> 01:05:42,676
I think he- I think he's right in his instinct

931
01:05:42,716 --> 01:05:45,994
that what this really was about was not about getting

932
01:05:46,034 --> 01:05:50,201
accurate download numbers. No. accurate listen numbers is to try

933
01:05:50,221 --> 01:05:52,592
to somehow judge the size of a show so that

934
01:05:52,632 --> 01:05:54,340
you know whether the advertiser is going to want to

935
01:05:54,380 --> 01:05:58,275
buy it or not. Yeah. If you can get a

936
01:05:58,335 --> 01:06:02,856
play count. Yeah. Oh, well, that's fair. But listen, so

937
01:06:02,937 --> 01:06:10,154
May numbers for Pod News. 2,093 Apple downloads versus 3,200

938
01:06:10,877 --> 01:06:15,005
Apple plays. Boom! Money in the pocket! A number go

939
01:06:15,167 --> 01:06:17,291
up. A number go up. That's all you need. Yeah.

940
01:06:17,647 --> 01:06:23,089
That's not spoofable. Yeah, let them do whatever they want

941
01:06:23,110 --> 01:06:27,023
to do. It's fine. really let them do whatever they

942
01:06:27,043 --> 01:06:29,939
want to call a podcast whatever you want to call

943
01:06:30,020 --> 01:06:36,744
it yeah that's fine it's all good I tried. Yeah.

944
01:06:37,675 --> 01:06:42,269
I mean, I still think it makes... I still think

945
01:06:42,330 --> 01:06:45,422
it makes sense to do something. I'm just not sure

946
01:06:45,462 --> 01:06:51,329
how to... No, it's... I'm just depressed. Don't be depressed.

947
01:06:51,369 --> 01:06:54,079
It doesn't really matter. It's not going to affect anything

948
01:06:54,661 --> 01:06:57,090
what we're doing. You know, I'm getting offers to sell

949
01:06:57,130 --> 01:07:02,483
the index. Did you know that? Why? I don't know.

950
01:07:02,503 --> 01:07:05,509
Who would want it? Yes, there's people who say they

951
01:07:05,549 --> 01:07:08,275
want to buy it. Like, it's not for sale. For

952
01:07:08,415 --> 01:07:12,063
what? I don't know. I'm like, do you need Dave

953
01:07:12,103 --> 01:07:15,290
with it? Because, you know, without Dave, it's kind of

954
01:07:15,370 --> 01:07:20,655
nothing. *cough* That's the weirdest thing I've heard in a

955
01:07:20,675 --> 01:07:23,337
long time. Why would somebody want to buy an open

956
01:07:23,377 --> 01:07:27,632
source project that doesn't make any money? Let me tell

957
01:07:27,672 --> 01:07:30,819
you. I don't think they exactly know what it is.

958
01:07:31,335 --> 01:07:33,833
I hope not. Let me see. I'm going to get

959
01:07:33,894 --> 01:07:35,828
one of these emails. I think I can find one

960
01:07:35,888 --> 01:07:38,738
somewhere. Hold on. Yeah, I hope they don't know what

961
01:07:38,798 --> 01:07:40,915
it is because otherwise they have a bad decision. What

962
01:07:40,975 --> 01:07:46,957
it is, it's... private equity That's even better. Isn't that

963
01:07:47,017 --> 01:07:51,755
great? Let me see. Let me see if I can

964
01:07:51,835 --> 01:07:57,546
find this real quick. may not be able to find

965
01:07:57,586 --> 01:08:00,591
it but you know private equity and uh like a

966
01:08:00,652 --> 01:08:05,998
home office type private equity. And we really want to

967
01:08:06,058 --> 01:08:09,773
put some money into podcasting. And so we're looking at

968
01:08:09,813 --> 01:08:11,840
everything that's out there. It's like someone trying to do

969
01:08:11,901 --> 01:08:17,710
some Spotify buying, I guess. Chad says sell it and

970
01:08:17,750 --> 01:08:27,078
launch podcasting 3.0. We'll probably have a non-compete. What? Why

971
01:08:27,118 --> 01:08:29,880
would anybody want this dog? Is what I want to

972
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:34,778
know. It's not a dog. It looks very... Hey, look

973
01:08:34,818 --> 01:08:38,810
at what... We can go public. I mean, come on.

974
01:08:38,830 --> 01:08:42,906
We can IPO. We can IPO. Just podcastindex.ai. And we're

975
01:08:42,946 --> 01:08:46,942
billionaires. That's all. You just need to change the... What

976
01:08:46,982 --> 01:08:50,265
an oversight. I know. I know. I know. Let me

977
01:08:50,286 --> 01:08:58,347
see. Here it is. um We have a family office

978
01:08:58,387 --> 01:09:02,397
is actively investing in companies in podcasting. Are you available

979
01:09:02,437 --> 01:09:08,563
to discuss? No. Edith, VP of Growth Equity. I'm like,

980
01:09:08,584 --> 01:09:12,517
yeah, sure. Send me, we want everything in Bitcoin, please.

981
01:09:15,444 --> 01:09:17,890
Yeah, but not right now. Wait till it keeps going.

982
01:09:17,910 --> 01:09:20,316
Not at this very moment. No, actually, we want it

983
01:09:20,396 --> 01:09:23,359
now. We want it now. Now all this equity, there's

984
01:09:23,399 --> 01:09:28,445
going to be liquidity everywhere pretty soon. Once these... once

985
01:09:28,505 --> 01:09:31,822
people get out of the open AI and, uh, anthropic,

986
01:09:32,003 --> 01:09:35,465
uh, you know, the, the insiders. Oh, Nathan said, in

987
01:09:35,526 --> 01:09:37,336
my experience, the buyer will give it back to you

988
01:09:37,356 --> 01:09:40,172
in about five years. Well, we had to have Nathan

989
01:09:40,695 --> 01:09:44,253
representing us. Yeah, you're an agent. You made an agent.

990
01:09:44,273 --> 01:09:47,385
He knows how to do this stuff, man. Yeah, he

991
01:09:47,425 --> 01:09:50,316
probably already knows the people. We're no good. Nathan knows

992
01:09:50,356 --> 01:09:55,456
how to do it. Exactly. Exactly. If y'all were boosting,

993
01:09:55,496 --> 01:10:03,638
I'm sorry. I hadn't brought up my... My helipad. And

994
01:10:04,266 --> 01:10:07,120
looks like my... Start 9 has been down for a

995
01:10:07,161 --> 01:10:09,315
couple of days. I wonder if I even have channels

996
01:10:09,436 --> 01:10:13,876
open. Yeah, I need some kind of alert for this.

997
01:10:13,916 --> 01:10:16,030
Let me see. Though I still have channels. Oh good,

998
01:10:16,050 --> 01:10:21,119
I have channels. but You didn't get an alert email.

999
01:10:21,099 --> 01:10:26,695
from IPFS podcasting. That's interesting you say that. No, no.

1000
01:10:26,796 --> 01:10:31,352
Well... No, because my IPF, wow, that's interesting. Is Cameron

1001
01:10:31,393 --> 01:10:33,839
alive? Has anybody checked the cabin in the woods? That's,

1002
01:10:34,080 --> 01:10:36,386
you know, that's a good point. Normally that was my

1003
01:10:37,228 --> 01:10:40,958
canary in the coal mine when I got an IPFspodcasting.net

1004
01:10:41,078 --> 01:10:43,698
email. Hey, your node's been down for 24 hours. Like,

1005
01:10:43,738 --> 01:10:48,494
oh crap, I gotta go reboot that thing. Somebody do

1006
01:10:48,514 --> 01:10:50,986
a wellness check on Cameron. He may not be okay.

1007
01:10:51,006 --> 01:10:54,416
Yeah, that's a good idea, actually. It's a good idea.

1008
01:10:55,443 --> 01:10:58,163
Um... Let me see what else did I have on

1009
01:10:58,203 --> 01:11:05,357
my list. I had... The user agent war. Okay. Podcast

1010
01:11:05,377 --> 01:11:09,031
standards project. We're the teenagers. They're the boring adults. We

1011
01:11:09,071 --> 01:11:16,595
got that. Apple WWDC, okay, woo, video on everywhere, okay.

1012
01:11:20,527 --> 01:11:22,774
Everything. I think we've kind of covered all the things,

1013
01:11:23,556 --> 01:11:25,562
you know, people need to understand. This is just a

1014
01:11:25,602 --> 01:11:27,527
moment for Dave and Adam to catch up. We used

1015
01:11:27,568 --> 01:11:29,373
to do this just on the phone. We just decided

1016
01:11:29,393 --> 01:11:35,445
to record it. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's how some

1017
01:11:35,505 --> 01:11:38,423
of the funnest things have developed. Did you have anything

1018
01:11:38,463 --> 01:11:42,532
else you wanted to bring up? I got a whole

1019
01:11:42,613 --> 01:11:46,269
bunch of stuff in my, uh... my notes here, but

1020
01:11:46,370 --> 01:11:48,715
I'm really struggling to make any sense out of it.

1021
01:11:49,039 --> 01:11:52,848
It looks like I just brain dumped onto the... onto

1022
01:11:52,889 --> 01:11:56,606
the page. You need a system, man. You need a

1023
01:11:56,687 --> 01:12:05,065
system. You need a system. The, uh... I did. I'll

1024
01:12:05,086 --> 01:12:10,917
see. Yeah. Oh, yeah. James talked about. The other day

1025
01:12:10,958 --> 01:12:18,852
about deprecating. Non-VTT formats in transcript tag? Yes. He keeps

1026
01:12:18,973 --> 01:12:22,718
one. Yeah. Anything but VTT, yes. He wants to kill

1027
01:12:22,758 --> 01:12:28,047
it. I'm still doing SRT. by the way. Yeah, and

1028
01:12:28,088 --> 01:12:32,358
this is... Which I could switch it, but... It's kind

1029
01:12:32,378 --> 01:12:35,155
of like me versus the, Curry versus the Criddler at

1030
01:12:35,176 --> 01:12:37,088
this point. I'm like, I'm not going to switch that.

1031
01:12:37,128 --> 01:12:40,838
Go ahead, Criddler. Don't try and ban me. I'm publishing

1032
01:12:40,878 --> 01:12:44,042
my SRT files. That's what I've been doing for a

1033
01:12:44,143 --> 01:12:55,595
long time. The I don't think we can... do that.

1034
01:12:56,219 --> 01:13:01,335
No, deprecating is gay. Can't do that. We can't deprecate.

1035
01:13:02,299 --> 01:13:09,178
formats because Because James doesn't like it. Well, no. I'm

1036
01:13:09,219 --> 01:13:13,555
sure he has very valid points, actually. No, he always,

1037
01:13:13,798 --> 01:13:17,174
he's always got a good... He's always got a logical

1038
01:13:17,275 --> 01:13:22,583
flow of his reasoning. But I think sometimes he misses.

1039
01:13:23,003 --> 01:13:27,543
Just the fact that this... that open source just really

1040
01:13:27,604 --> 01:13:33,263
can't dictate what people do. Because, you know... Apple says

1041
01:13:33,323 --> 01:13:37,771
we only take VTT, but other apps take other things

1042
01:13:38,013 --> 01:13:41,345
and other people. Create different things. Oh, Apple doesn't recognize

1043
01:13:41,405 --> 01:13:48,339
my SRT? No. I didn't know that. I have so

1044
01:13:48,359 --> 01:13:52,853
many pipelines written for SRT, it's kind of... It's an

1045
01:13:52,914 --> 01:13:56,216
easy swap. Yeah, I guess. Your bot can do it,

1046
01:13:56,257 --> 01:14:01,742
I'm sure. Yeah, yeah. uh The... This, I've talked about

1047
01:14:01,882 --> 01:14:03,269
maybe, I think I've talked about this before, but like

1048
01:14:03,893 --> 01:14:07,560
one of the problems with namespaces in the past. It

1049
01:14:08,262 --> 01:14:11,834
annoys him when we have very open-ended tags that don't

1050
01:14:11,935 --> 01:14:18,080
narrowly define a format. It's a form of OCD. Yeah,

1051
01:14:18,182 --> 01:14:23,789
well, it's like... well you should have one format that

1052
01:14:23,809 --> 01:14:31,990
you support. I am. Maybe the namespace is... Maybe the

1053
01:14:32,051 --> 01:14:34,728
reason the namespace is this way is that it's an

1054
01:14:34,788 --> 01:14:46,383
expression. belief pattern within open source. It goes back to

1055
01:14:46,443 --> 01:14:50,498
that, was it Bill Joy that said, be liberal in

1056
01:14:50,538 --> 01:14:54,689
what you accept and conservative in what you send? That's

1057
01:14:54,749 --> 01:14:57,326
the... Either that or Dave Weiner. I don't know. One

1058
01:14:57,366 --> 01:14:59,419
of the two. No, it wasn't Dave Weiner. It wasn't.

1059
01:14:59,399 --> 01:15:03,025
It wasn't day one. It predates him. But it was,

1060
01:15:03,045 --> 01:15:07,455
I think it was Bill Joy. But that ethos of...

1061
01:15:08,547 --> 01:15:13,198
be very be very open with the formats that you

1062
01:15:13,279 --> 01:15:17,599
accept. but very strict with the formats that you publish.

1063
01:15:20,235 --> 01:15:27,687
allows for a loose coupling. that is really important. So

1064
01:15:28,267 --> 01:15:33,927
Like the internet itself works. It's built on this foundation.

1065
01:15:35,499 --> 01:15:42,672
Because if you publish... The robustness principle. Okay. Uh, yeah.

1066
01:15:43,027 --> 01:15:46,530
So the John Postal, that's right. It's John Postal, the

1067
01:15:46,550 --> 01:15:52,887
guy that invented SMTP. so If you, um... So the

1068
01:15:52,927 --> 01:15:59,920
internet itself is built on... This idea that you... Ex...

1069
01:16:00,599 --> 01:16:03,145
Like when you're sending packets and they travel across a

1070
01:16:03,206 --> 01:16:08,259
router. Routers are expected, if they cannot deliver it in

1071
01:16:08,299 --> 01:16:11,958
a quick, timely manner, they are expected to drop packets.

1072
01:16:12,721 --> 01:16:18,258
Yeah. It's not an error. Dropping a packet is not

1073
01:16:18,379 --> 01:16:22,020
an error. It is the way that the network is

1074
01:16:22,101 --> 01:16:26,088
designed. You drop, if you, under a certain set of

1075
01:16:26,128 --> 01:16:29,696
circumstances, it is the correct thing to do to drop

1076
01:16:29,776 --> 01:16:34,486
a packet because then the sending entity knows to just,

1077
01:16:34,506 --> 01:16:36,411
they don't get an acknowledgement and so they just resend

1078
01:16:36,451 --> 01:16:40,203
it. It's not a problem. That is sort of the

1079
01:16:40,445 --> 01:16:46,071
ethos of open source in general. that When you... that

1080
01:16:46,112 --> 01:16:51,954
you are very accepting. of all kinds of things being

1081
01:16:52,055 --> 01:16:54,651
sent to you, and you just do the best you

1082
01:16:54,731 --> 01:17:00,496
can to handle it. because When you try to dictate

1083
01:17:00,516 --> 01:17:06,817
strictness... to a sending party. There is, it only goes

1084
01:17:06,958 --> 01:17:09,927
so far. You get to a certain percentage and you'll

1085
01:17:10,048 --> 01:17:13,719
never get beyond it. So then the onus gets flipped

1086
01:17:13,780 --> 01:17:17,667
back on you. As the consumer of that format or

1087
01:17:17,688 --> 01:17:22,379
of that data, to then make adjustments. And this is

1088
01:17:22,420 --> 01:17:26,244
the way RSS works too, I mean... Yeah, absolutely. Yeah,

1089
01:17:26,264 --> 01:17:28,871
aggregators make all kinds, they jump through all kinds of

1090
01:17:28,891 --> 01:17:32,802
hoops to deal with non-standard XML stuff. We're used to

1091
01:17:32,882 --> 01:17:36,681
it. That's just the way this world works. so otherwise

1092
01:17:36,742 --> 01:17:39,980
it wouldn't work that you're absolutely right that's perfect example.

1093
01:17:40,591 --> 01:17:47,838
Yeah, like what about somebody who publishes a – blog,

1094
01:17:47,879 --> 01:17:50,164
they got a WordPress, let's say they got a WordPress

1095
01:17:50,184 --> 01:17:58,928
site. and their WordPress site. Only they're doing, they're reading

1096
01:17:58,969 --> 01:18:01,696
their blog. And they're going to turn that into a

1097
01:18:01,736 --> 01:18:04,755
podcast. So they're just going to record their voice reading

1098
01:18:04,775 --> 01:18:11,319
their blog post. And make that a podcast. They upload

1099
01:18:11,339 --> 01:18:16,431
it as an MP3. They're using WordPress built-in enclosure support.

1100
01:18:16,947 --> 01:18:21,584
and then they download a plugin that will take, that

1101
01:18:21,625 --> 01:18:27,599
will modify their RSS feed to also stick a link

1102
01:18:28,040 --> 01:18:31,127
to their HTML link to their HTML page in as

1103
01:18:31,207 --> 01:18:34,235
the, as the transcript, because all they're doing is reading

1104
01:18:34,275 --> 01:18:38,856
the page. Right, right, right. So the transcript is just

1105
01:18:38,917 --> 01:18:42,765
a link. back to their HTML page. This person's not

1106
01:18:42,805 --> 01:18:47,475
an expert in podcasting formats. No. They... Do we want

1107
01:18:47,516 --> 01:18:51,093
to say war? You have to publish that in VT.

1108
01:18:51,113 --> 01:18:56,168
You're banished. You're banished from podcasting. Your HTML is no

1109
01:18:56,208 --> 01:18:59,619
good here. I'm Adam Curry, the podfather. You're no good.

1110
01:18:59,599 --> 01:19:05,161
Go away. So that's, and I think the answer to

1111
01:19:05,243 --> 01:19:10,601
that. From my perspective, is no. We need to be

1112
01:19:10,701 --> 01:19:15,501
accepting of other formats. And other children and other cultures

1113
01:19:15,581 --> 01:19:24,418
from other lands. Yeah. Yeah, don't be so Australian-centric. Oh,

1114
01:19:24,438 --> 01:19:27,686
wow. Be open-minded. Oh, you just hit a hot button

1115
01:19:27,726 --> 01:19:32,692
there. He hates that podcasting is so U.S.-centric. He doesn't

1116
01:19:32,753 --> 01:19:34,547
like that. That's true, yeah. Which it is, of course.

1117
01:19:34,648 --> 01:19:39,013
It is. It is. It is. Yeah. It is. You

1118
01:19:39,034 --> 01:19:44,948
guys got Mel Gibson. Be happy. Olivia Newton-John. No, Hugh

1119
01:19:44,968 --> 01:19:49,223
Jackman. They got Hugh Jackman. Hugh Jackman. You got Kidman,

1120
01:19:49,404 --> 01:19:54,835
Nicole Kidman. Chris. Chris? Chris, the guy that played Thor?

1121
01:19:56,724 --> 01:19:59,416
You got Thor. What's your problem? You got Thor. You

1122
01:19:59,457 --> 01:20:03,031
got Thor. Chris Hemsworth. Chris Hemsworth, yes. All kinds of

1123
01:20:03,072 --> 01:20:04,959
people. They got all kinds of people. Did you say

1124
01:20:05,060 --> 01:20:11,492
Olivia Newton-John? I did. I did. I got three! Yep.

1125
01:20:11,573 --> 01:20:19,420
Xanadu. Xanadu. Yeah, baby. Yeah. Well? I wish I could.

1126
01:20:19,399 --> 01:20:20,866
I hope I've put you in a little bit of

1127
01:20:20,906 --> 01:20:22,574
a better mood. I don't like it when you're down.

1128
01:20:22,594 --> 01:20:25,408
I can tell. I can always tell when you're down.

1129
01:20:25,468 --> 01:20:30,060
Not really. No? It didn't help? No, not really. You

1130
01:20:30,080 --> 01:20:31,952
got to go camping again, man. Go back into the

1131
01:20:32,032 --> 01:20:35,254
woods. It's good for you. Well, you know, our air

1132
01:20:35,274 --> 01:20:39,750
conditioner's been broke for about two months. Oh. Ooh. And

1133
01:20:39,851 --> 01:20:42,040
it's just so you don't have air conditioner on breaker

1134
01:20:42,060 --> 01:20:47,053
guys. We have We had two sort of mini split

1135
01:20:47,113 --> 01:20:49,567
systems, sort of like toward two zones down here on

1136
01:20:49,627 --> 01:20:53,081
the bottom floor of our house. Yep. The back one

1137
01:20:53,143 --> 01:20:55,432
is broke. The one at the front of the house

1138
01:20:55,473 --> 01:20:58,351
works. It's the capacitor, I tell you. It's always the

1139
01:20:58,412 --> 01:21:03,085
capacitor. I walked out one day and I could smell

1140
01:21:03,145 --> 01:21:06,535
a horrible smell. That's the capacitor burning. No, it was

1141
01:21:06,575 --> 01:21:10,326
the main board. No, that's not good. It melted itself.

1142
01:21:10,546 --> 01:21:16,089
Yeah, that's an automatic $3,200 repair. The, so it was

1143
01:21:16,109 --> 01:21:20,326
going to be more than that because. fur For people

1144
01:21:20,368 --> 01:21:27,293
who... Maybe not for me with mini splits. The mini-split

1145
01:21:27,334 --> 01:21:38,899
world... is The compressor and the internal air handlers They're

1146
01:21:38,920 --> 01:21:43,168
sort of married together. You can't mix and match. One

1147
01:21:43,589 --> 01:21:46,515
is sort of tied to the other. You've got to

1148
01:21:46,575 --> 01:21:49,882
replace both. You've got to replace them all. Ours were

1149
01:21:49,922 --> 01:21:53,690
like seven years old. That's not very old. It's not

1150
01:21:53,750 --> 01:21:57,217
very old, but new mini splits come out on a

1151
01:21:57,277 --> 01:22:00,422
yearly basis. So ours, we had no hope of finding

1152
01:22:00,502 --> 01:22:04,236
any parts for our old one. So they would have

1153
01:22:04,256 --> 01:22:06,714
to put in a whole new system. It was going

1154
01:22:06,734 --> 01:22:09,921
to be like $10,000. And so I was like, well,

1155
01:22:10,503 --> 01:22:13,115
for that, we can just replace the whole downstairs with

1156
01:22:13,195 --> 01:22:15,666
a whole new central system. And so it's going to

1157
01:22:15,706 --> 01:22:19,893
cost a lot more than 10 grand. No. But, oh

1158
01:22:19,913 --> 01:22:22,376
yeah, it's going to be like $16,000. Well, why don't

1159
01:22:22,416 --> 01:22:25,981
you take $10,000 podcast index money and we'll call it

1160
01:22:26,062 --> 01:22:28,105
a day and then you add the other six. I'm

1161
01:22:28,145 --> 01:22:30,808
fine with that. I don't need any money. No, no,

1162
01:22:30,828 --> 01:22:33,252
no, no, no. Everybody will agree with me. You need

1163
01:22:33,352 --> 01:22:37,578
air conditioning. This is critical. Look, listen to your attitude

1164
01:22:37,638 --> 01:22:41,585
today. This is critical to the future of podcast index.

1165
01:22:41,926 --> 01:22:44,190
I'm telling you. The air conditioner? Yes. No, it's not.

1166
01:22:44,210 --> 01:22:47,235
Yes, yes. You need to have cool air. You need

1167
01:22:47,275 --> 01:22:49,800
to keep your blood at the right temperature, blood, bro.

1168
01:22:50,100 --> 01:22:55,009
Yes, yes. No, no, this is not happening. Just know

1169
01:22:55,130 --> 01:22:59,537
I approve it. Uh, that's... I'll just wait for the

1170
01:22:59,578 --> 01:23:05,033
private equity money. Oh. I'll wait for the exit. We

1171
01:23:05,073 --> 01:23:10,965
need $1,016,000 for the podcast index. Yeah. No, I'm going

1172
01:23:10,985 --> 01:23:16,804
to wait for the IPO. Wait for the IPO. I'm

1173
01:23:16,866 --> 01:23:20,923
sorry, brother. That sucks. It really does. I mean, whatever.

1174
01:23:21,063 --> 01:23:24,032
No, it's not. Living in an old house, it costs

1175
01:23:25,135 --> 01:23:27,081
an arm and a leg. Living in a new house

1176
01:23:27,161 --> 01:23:31,746
is the same problem. I've had my air. units i

1177
01:23:31,787 --> 01:23:34,466
mean the cat it's always the capacitor and that's usually

1178
01:23:34,506 --> 01:23:37,827
what it is Oh, that capacitor thing is a total

1179
01:23:37,867 --> 01:23:43,501
scam, too. Oh, is it? Oh, man. So... Really? It

1180
01:23:43,581 --> 01:23:47,649
is. So when you take the main way mechanic shops

1181
01:23:47,689 --> 01:23:53,569
make money. is by with oil changes and brakes yeah

1182
01:23:53,670 --> 01:23:56,549
sure They'll take a $50 set of brake pads and

1183
01:23:56,570 --> 01:24:01,104
charge you $350 to do them. One of the ways

1184
01:24:01,164 --> 01:24:06,096
that HVAC companies, one of their cash cows is start

1185
01:24:06,136 --> 01:24:10,207
capacitors. Yeah. It's a $35 part, and they will charge

1186
01:24:10,247 --> 01:24:12,773
you $700 to replace it. No, no, no. My guys

1187
01:24:12,813 --> 01:24:16,081
do not charge me $700 at all. How much do

1188
01:24:16,101 --> 01:24:19,394
they charge you? I'd have to look, but we have

1189
01:24:19,556 --> 01:24:22,854
a... We have a service subscription, so we don't pay

1190
01:24:22,875 --> 01:24:25,210
anything extra for them coming out. I think it's probably

1191
01:24:25,230 --> 01:24:28,716
$70. I think they're probably charging $70. But now I

1192
01:24:28,776 --> 01:24:31,241
understand because I'm the guy that's like, hey, here's $20.

1193
01:24:31,261 --> 01:24:32,624
Thanks for coming out, man. They always look at me

1194
01:24:32,664 --> 01:24:34,628
like, you don't have to do that, bro. They're probably

1195
01:24:34,668 --> 01:24:37,594
feeling bad about themselves at that point. Like, oh, man,

1196
01:24:37,614 --> 01:24:39,378
he's tipping me. He just ripped him off. I can't

1197
01:24:39,418 --> 01:24:41,579
believe he's doing that. I don't feel good about this.

1198
01:24:41,620 --> 01:24:44,480
He's so nice. My dad used to work for an

1199
01:24:44,660 --> 01:24:47,810
HVAC supply company. And so we could always get, I

1200
01:24:47,850 --> 01:24:49,816
could always get the parts wholesale. So I could get

1201
01:24:49,856 --> 01:24:53,427
a start capacitor for like $15. And I just plop

1202
01:24:53,447 --> 01:24:57,555
that thing in myself. And then one day I got

1203
01:24:57,616 --> 01:25:00,016
real busy and I was like, you know, I. time

1204
01:25:00,056 --> 01:25:02,183
to handle this. I'm going to call the company. I

1205
01:25:02,203 --> 01:25:05,072
was expecting them to charge me $200 for the service

1206
01:25:05,132 --> 01:25:06,436
fee and all that kind of stuff when they come

1207
01:25:06,477 --> 01:25:12,195
out. $700 is what they charge for a start capacitor.

1208
01:25:13,031 --> 01:25:15,341
And for just replacing it. It was just simply a

1209
01:25:15,362 --> 01:25:17,471
wire. I was like, nope. No, they can't do that

1210
01:25:17,552 --> 01:25:19,661
in Texas, man. Not in the Hill Country. You can't

1211
01:25:19,721 --> 01:25:23,679
get away with that. People will shoot you. No. No.

1212
01:25:23,699 --> 01:25:29,087
I literally got this text from... We have... Is it

1213
01:25:29,249 --> 01:25:36,048
called aerobic septic system? Are you familiar with this? Oh

1214
01:25:36,068 --> 01:25:38,188
yeah, yeah, yeah, that's where it is, where you got

1215
01:25:38,228 --> 01:25:42,441
bacteria that eat your poop. No. Nice visual, but no,

1216
01:25:42,461 --> 01:25:46,674
that's not it. The aerobic, aerobic? I think it is.

1217
01:25:48,239 --> 01:25:52,171
That's probably the wrong word. So you basically, you have

1218
01:25:52,211 --> 01:25:56,044
your own little mini water purifier. So there's a little

1219
01:25:56,104 --> 01:25:58,873
pump there, a CO2 pump, and it just shoots in

1220
01:25:58,954 --> 01:26:06,082
CO2 at high speed. And, uh, So after a while,

1221
01:26:06,163 --> 01:26:09,620
then sprinklers pop up and it just shoots this clean

1222
01:26:09,680 --> 01:26:14,396
water all over the grass. So it's really purifying your

1223
01:26:14,416 --> 01:26:18,315
poop into stuff that you can, you know, just water.

1224
01:26:19,343 --> 01:26:23,821
So the guy, you know, Paul comes out, uh... Let

1225
01:26:23,841 --> 01:26:25,782
me see if I can find this. Oops. What is

1226
01:26:25,823 --> 01:26:29,447
this? That's not what I wanted. Paul comes out and,

1227
01:26:29,467 --> 01:26:31,059
oh man, let me see if I can find this.

1228
01:26:32,087 --> 01:26:38,914
Find his text message. Hold on. And he texts me

1229
01:26:38,955 --> 01:26:46,062
before, here we go. He says, Please have all trip

1230
01:26:46,082 --> 01:26:49,009
mines and explosives secured and disengaged. We will be on

1231
01:26:49,049 --> 01:26:51,857
your property shortly. See, that's how we talk in Texas.

1232
01:26:51,877 --> 01:26:57,691
Whoa! Are you serious? Yeah. Yeah. Holy crap. And I

1233
01:26:57,711 --> 01:26:59,877
said, it's all right, Paul. All booby traps are disarmed.

1234
01:26:59,917 --> 01:27:03,465
Phoebe's indoors. good you're good to go did he think

1235
01:27:03,505 --> 01:27:05,951
he was going to laura logan's house no i don't

1236
01:27:05,991 --> 01:27:07,975
know i think they just keep their poop in the

1237
01:27:08,015 --> 01:27:11,122
ground i don't think they'd do anything with it the

1238
01:27:11,143 --> 01:27:13,588
guy that uh the guy that's doing our hvac though

1239
01:27:13,628 --> 01:27:16,495
is really is he's a cool dude he's uh we

1240
01:27:17,056 --> 01:27:19,281
we used to live about an hour north of birmingham

1241
01:27:19,321 --> 01:27:23,436
in the in the wilderness and he's from that same

1242
01:27:23,557 --> 01:27:26,644
area and so he He rolled up the other day.

1243
01:27:27,287 --> 01:27:31,798
And he saw the old 72 4x4 Ford 4x4 in

1244
01:27:31,818 --> 01:27:35,246
the backyard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he was like, hey,

1245
01:27:35,266 --> 01:27:37,792
man, I got Ford trucks too. He's like, you want

1246
01:27:37,812 --> 01:27:40,619
some mirrors? I got a set of mirrors I'll give

1247
01:27:40,659 --> 01:27:44,282
you. I was like, yeah, I'll take some mirrors. You

1248
01:27:44,302 --> 01:27:46,731
never know when my wife will rip one off. I

1249
01:27:46,751 --> 01:27:48,234
was like, I'll pay you for me. He's like, no,

1250
01:27:48,314 --> 01:27:49,937
no, I just want to forward God to another. I'll

1251
01:27:49,957 --> 01:27:53,384
give you some mirrors. I was like, okay. Need a

1252
01:27:53,444 --> 01:27:57,852
tranny? I got a tranny here for you. It means

1253
01:27:57,872 --> 01:28:00,276
something different in Austin than it does in Alabama. Yeah,

1254
01:28:00,316 --> 01:28:04,339
yeah, yeah. Alright brother, well, um... Alright. What are you

1255
01:28:04,379 --> 01:28:08,039
gonna do this weekend? Well, I was going to go

1256
01:28:08,099 --> 01:28:11,790
climbing yesterday. Yeah. I mean, tomorrow, tomorrow, but it's going

1257
01:28:11,810 --> 01:28:15,180
to be like 92 degrees outside. Oh, no, it's better

1258
01:28:15,200 --> 01:28:18,429
to sit indoors without air conditioning. Enjoy that. That's going

1259
01:28:18,449 --> 01:28:20,756
to be much better. No, just sit in the front

1260
01:28:20,796 --> 01:28:23,904
of the house. Where the air is closed. There's still

1261
01:28:24,024 --> 01:28:26,630
air. Oh, man. There's air in the front of the

1262
01:28:26,690 --> 01:28:29,156
house. Just don't stay in the kitchen. That's where, God,

1263
01:28:29,176 --> 01:28:31,521
it's like a thousand degrees. You got fans? You got

1264
01:28:31,581 --> 01:28:36,894
fans going? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Hmm. All right. Well, there

1265
01:28:36,934 --> 01:28:40,480
it is, boardroom. We have solved nothing today. Well, we

1266
01:28:40,520 --> 01:28:42,567
had a nice chat. I hope you all enjoyed it.

1267
01:28:42,688 --> 01:28:47,123
And as always, would you please join us next Friday

1268
01:28:47,203 --> 01:28:55,996
for another episode of The Board Meeting Podcasting 2.0. you

1269
01:28:59,199 --> 01:29:13,518
you You have been listening to Podcasting 2.0. Visit podcastindex.org

1270
01:29:13,618 --> 01:29:18,781
for more information. Go podcasting! has been