1
00:00:00,659 --> 00:00:06,119
Casting 2.0 for March 11 2021,
Episode 28 we got the cat by the

2
00:00:06,119 --> 00:00:13,829
tail. Always the cryptic
messages always Friday once

3
00:00:13,829 --> 00:00:15,419
again Time for a board meeting.

4
00:00:16,500 --> 00:00:20,190
podcasting 2.0 as we discussed
developments from podcast

5
00:00:20,370 --> 00:00:24,270
index.org with special guest
today very excited. I'm Adam

6
00:00:24,270 --> 00:00:28,380
curry in Austin, Texas and in
Alabama, the only man who can

7
00:00:28,380 --> 00:00:32,310
chase a runaway SQL query my
friend on the other end, Dave

8
00:00:32,340 --> 00:00:33,570
Jones.

9
00:00:34,380 --> 00:00:41,970
I have so much work to do now. I
have to I gotta go in every

10
00:00:41,970 --> 00:00:46,290
GitHub repo we have ever had to
change do a search and replace

11
00:00:46,290 --> 00:00:50,640
and change subscribe to follow.
freakin apple. I

12
00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:51,240
swear.

13
00:00:52,740 --> 00:00:54,120
It's what everybody's doing now.

14
00:00:54,420 --> 00:01:00,030
Oh, man. Okay, well, you you're
scratching off the scab right

15
00:01:00,030 --> 00:01:02,940
away. I had already kind of
gotten over this what happened

16
00:01:02,940 --> 00:01:03,330
earlier, I

17
00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:06,720
knew this was gonna trigger you
so hard. Ladies

18
00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:12,900
and gentlemen. Apple has
upgraded their podcast app. And

19
00:01:13,410 --> 00:01:19,950
in 15 years, we have a huge
development. We've changed

20
00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:25,050
subscribe to follow and press
went nuts.

21
00:01:26,220 --> 00:01:30,870
At least we can hug. You know,
he says we can hug now. So so

22
00:01:30,870 --> 00:01:31,650
it's not all bad. I

23
00:01:31,650 --> 00:01:36,150
have a story about follow. But
first. Here's what I found

24
00:01:36,150 --> 00:01:41,340
extremely disappointing. Okay,
now I did not hear or read of a

25
00:01:41,340 --> 00:01:46,680
single news or journalistic
outlet that was taking all of

26
00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:52,140
this great new information. We
can now have more episodes in

27
00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,490
the apple podcast app. And we've
changed subscribe to follow. No

28
00:01:56,490 --> 00:02:00,780
one said Hey, did you guys
consider the podcast namespace

29
00:02:00,780 --> 00:02:03,510
at all? Have you thought about
it? No one ever asked these

30
00:02:03,510 --> 00:02:05,640
questions, what the fuck?

31
00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,210
It is journalists, journalistic,

32
00:02:09,719 --> 00:02:14,549
journalistic, bankrupt it's
bankrupt. I mean, we're so

33
00:02:14,609 --> 00:02:19,319
German news is so used to
sucking off these companies when

34
00:02:19,319 --> 00:02:26,039
they release a new phone mainly.
And they love reviewing the apps

35
00:02:26,039 --> 00:02:30,599
on the beta. I'm reviewing the
app. And no one says the simple

36
00:02:30,599 --> 00:02:36,719
things. I'm flabbergasted by
that. Anyway,

37
00:02:36,810 --> 00:02:46,110
so the the idea that subscribe
is confusing. I fully agree with

38
00:02:46,470 --> 00:02:50,190
with Todd Cochran. Don't think
that's an issue.

39
00:02:50,310 --> 00:02:54,840
Know what? You describe all the
tests. Everyone gives examples

40
00:02:54,840 --> 00:03:01,890
of podcast apps. And no one
again, journalism. No one came

41
00:03:01,890 --> 00:03:09,420
up with Oh, YouTube has arguably
the most successful. Published

42
00:03:09,420 --> 00:03:13,770
subscription mechanism used
today is YouTube that literally

43
00:03:13,770 --> 00:03:17,820
says subscribe. But yeah, go
ahead.

44
00:03:18,150 --> 00:03:23,460
here's the here's a, here's a
quick way to around this, like,

45
00:03:23,670 --> 00:03:27,360
you hit the subscribe button.
And if it asks you if you want

46
00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:29,250
to pay money for it, just say
no,

47
00:03:29,610 --> 00:03:34,680
you know, it's such a non issue.
And it's even stupider that oh,

48
00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:37,260
well, you know, Spotify has
already been doing this. Yeah,

49
00:03:37,260 --> 00:03:40,320
they're so smart. Let me tell
you, let me give the people a

50
00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:44,550
little podcast history. Again,
something I didn't read it was

51
00:03:44,550 --> 00:03:47,280
would have been worthwhile as
long as you're sucking off

52
00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:53,130
everybody on the Follow button.
In 2007, we were in San

53
00:03:53,130 --> 00:03:56,670
Francisco with pod show. And we
were building a podcast network,

54
00:03:56,670 --> 00:04:00,030
which I later learned you really
can't monetize story for a

55
00:04:00,030 --> 00:04:05,490
different day. And we were
really only doing the

56
00:04:05,490 --> 00:04:09,600
advertising aggregating part and
pre financing essentially kind

57
00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:13,860
of running it like a record
label, I guess. And we heard

58
00:04:13,860 --> 00:04:17,100
about a competitor and this
competitor was doing something

59
00:04:17,100 --> 00:04:20,700
really cool because they had an
interface which I got to see

60
00:04:20,700 --> 00:04:24,060
once they had an interface that
was all built in Flash. Now mind

61
00:04:24,060 --> 00:04:27,210
you, this was early days for
this type of interface,

62
00:04:27,210 --> 00:04:33,300
particularly with multimedia
and, and it was a publish and a

63
00:04:33,330 --> 00:04:37,530
listening platform. Both. Wow,
okay, this is really smart. And

64
00:04:37,530 --> 00:04:40,920
I was you know, I knew we had
the talent, which was our game,

65
00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:45,240
but I felt that an interface
could definitely you know, would

66
00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:50,610
be important. You were worried.
No, no, I wasn't worried. I

67
00:04:50,610 --> 00:04:56,550
wasn't worried. But I was I was
prepared and they never released

68
00:04:56,550 --> 00:04:59,460
and they never released and, you
know, when I finally saw what

69
00:04:59,460 --> 00:05:04,710
they had, not Released, they had
pivoted. And the one thing I

70
00:05:04,710 --> 00:05:07,920
liked about their podcast
interface at the time was

71
00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:12,420
instead of subscribe, which was
a discussion that went on for

72
00:05:12,450 --> 00:05:15,660
ever in the beginning of
podcasting. So in my mind, this

73
00:05:15,660 --> 00:05:18,270
discussion would just do it,
which is typical podcasting.

74
00:05:18,270 --> 00:05:21,810
2.0. Let's do all the steps over
again, just now we know the

75
00:05:21,810 --> 00:05:24,720
outcome. So we can compress the
timeline a little bit, which is

76
00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:28,110
good, it's taking place. But
they had changed, subscribe to

77
00:05:28,110 --> 00:05:31,560
follow. And that was the first
time that was ever used. And I

78
00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,590
really thought that was a
brilliant way to do it, because

79
00:05:34,590 --> 00:05:38,340
we could never come up with the
right wording. But this was also

80
00:05:38,340 --> 00:05:42,000
the days when it meant right
click on this orange icon, copy

81
00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:46,230
the link and then paste it into
your subscribe box. And they

82
00:05:46,230 --> 00:05:50,550
pivoted odio went away. And they
took that exact same technology,

83
00:05:50,700 --> 00:05:54,810
and it became Twitter. And they
and they carried over the whole

84
00:05:54,810 --> 00:05:58,530
feed concept. It was in fact,
RSS microblogging. It was in

85
00:05:58,530 --> 00:06:03,240
fact built on RSS, which they,
you know, hence the fail whale.

86
00:06:04,050 --> 00:06:06,870
And they had to completely
retool that but they kept the

87
00:06:06,870 --> 00:06:10,530
Follow button. That's how old
this is. And that's the origins

88
00:06:10,530 --> 00:06:12,690
of it. It comes from podcasting.

89
00:06:14,100 --> 00:06:17,880
I don't know if anybody how many
people remember the first days

90
00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:22,530
of Twitter that no one ever
bothered to ask all it was all

91
00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:27,870
the interface was terrible. It
went the service went down. All

92
00:06:27,900 --> 00:06:31,170
like multiple times a week. It
was only SMS.

93
00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:35,130
Oh, yeah. The fail whale baby.
The SMS text messaging that was

94
00:06:35,130 --> 00:06:37,050
that's how it started. Sure.
Yeah, I

95
00:06:37,050 --> 00:06:40,380
mean, it was it was garbage. Why
did I wonder what why did they

96
00:06:40,380 --> 00:06:44,190
switch? What made them bail out
on podcasting? Was there? What

97
00:06:44,190 --> 00:06:46,980
did was there some event that
said new went through the

98
00:06:47,010 --> 00:06:50,160
rippled through the news, they
said, okay, podcasting is

99
00:06:50,220 --> 00:06:51,750
overblown, it's gonna fail.

100
00:06:51,779 --> 00:06:55,919
Yeah, there were two things that
took place. Okay. One is

101
00:06:56,399 --> 00:07:01,349
YouTube. YouTube was just coming
out. This was before 2008, I

102
00:07:01,349 --> 00:07:05,099
think, or 2009 was when they
were purchased. And the second

103
00:07:05,099 --> 00:07:08,939
thing was facebook, facebook was
coming along, and they just went

104
00:07:08,939 --> 00:07:13,409
from you had to be.edu to
whatever. And you could sign up.

105
00:07:13,409 --> 00:07:17,249
And I just and I think they
brilliantly saw the opportunity.

106
00:07:18,119 --> 00:07:21,059
And they had the infrastructure,
it was the basic RSS

107
00:07:21,059 --> 00:07:25,289
infrastructure, which did not
scale to it for what they what

108
00:07:25,289 --> 00:07:32,639
they wanted to do. And I can see
why. Yeah, that was it. I said,

109
00:07:33,119 --> 00:07:35,639
and they, I think they were
actually it was one of these.

110
00:07:35,999 --> 00:07:39,509
They, they built it internally.
And we're using it and liked it.

111
00:07:40,769 --> 00:07:46,409
That's the most organic form of
development. It's amazing how

112
00:07:46,439 --> 00:07:50,939
they actually succeeded because
of how rocky that first couple

113
00:07:50,939 --> 00:07:54,899
of years was, of the service
being so unreliable and so

114
00:07:55,319 --> 00:07:59,339
weird. But it's really, it's
really stunning that Twitter

115
00:07:59,609 --> 00:08:02,789
actually survived that that time
period. Well,

116
00:08:02,790 --> 00:08:06,750
remember, they, they were dying
by success because they had

117
00:08:06,750 --> 00:08:10,020
Ashton Kutcher. They brought in
Demi Moore, they had the whole

118
00:08:10,020 --> 00:08:16,770
Planet Hollywood celebrities,
they immediately understood the

119
00:08:16,770 --> 00:08:21,480
power of the celebrity tweet,
and the celebrities caught it.

120
00:08:21,510 --> 00:08:26,250
They immediately like holy crap.
And now the whole follow thing

121
00:08:26,250 --> 00:08:29,940
really fit in well with the cult
status of celebrities Follow me.

122
00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:33,300
I mean, this was a perfect,
perfect combination.

123
00:08:33,330 --> 00:08:37,380
Cancer. Oh, okay. So I'm seeing
this now. So the follow thing

124
00:08:37,860 --> 00:08:42,780
really is all about celebrity.
Because you absolutely don't.

125
00:08:42,990 --> 00:08:46,170
Because if you're talking about
it to meet, subscribe in a

126
00:08:46,170 --> 00:08:50,910
podcast is fits perfectly.
Because you're subscribing. When

127
00:08:50,910 --> 00:08:53,400
you subscribe to something. It
means you automatically get

128
00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,190
delivered. Like you subscribe to
a newspaper, or you subscribe to

129
00:08:56,190 --> 00:09:01,680
a magazine. You get it delivered
to your mailbox on automatically

130
00:09:01,680 --> 00:09:04,620
and you don't have to think
about it. Correct. Follow you

131
00:09:04,620 --> 00:09:08,400
don't follow a magazine lately.
What about the word follow tells

132
00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:12,210
you that you're going to get
something automatically unless

133
00:09:12,210 --> 00:09:14,820
you're talking about
celebrities, because you people

134
00:09:14,820 --> 00:09:20,580
do follow celebrities. Like oh,
I follow. You know, what are you

135
00:09:20,580 --> 00:09:22,020
use Ashton Kutcher? No.

136
00:09:23,310 --> 00:09:27,720
No one says, Yeah, I follow the
podcasting 2.0 podcast.

137
00:09:28,230 --> 00:09:29,190
And nobody says that

138
00:09:29,190 --> 00:09:32,040
subscribe to that. Yeah, I'm
subscribed. So it's it's

139
00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:35,400
meaningless. It was very
disappointing. It tells me that

140
00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:39,840
Apple has punted and they're
going to do their podcast plus

141
00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,560
or whatever they're going to do.
Or the or they're doing a one

142
00:09:43,560 --> 00:09:47,160
two punch with some other stuff.
I don't know, I just I, I could

143
00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,340
not believe how disappointing
this release was. It must just

144
00:09:50,340 --> 00:09:52,560
be a maintenance release because
they're working on something

145
00:09:52,560 --> 00:09:56,970
else. And they're clearly not
interested in the exciting

146
00:09:56,970 --> 00:10:02,610
development in the podcast
ecosystem. And fact, we're doing

147
00:10:02,610 --> 00:10:08,040
a great exercise partially at
podcast index dot social, but on

148
00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:12,480
GitHub, to explain have create a
document that explains

149
00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:18,540
podcasting 2.0. And so this has
been interesting to look at the

150
00:10:18,540 --> 00:10:20,820
document that kind of came
together you wrote it, there's

151
00:10:20,820 --> 00:10:24,000
been some other pieces of input
from people some pull requests,

152
00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:28,920
but it doesn't really matter.
The the the brain trust kind of

153
00:10:29,220 --> 00:10:31,890
put together what we were going
to put in that document that

154
00:10:31,890 --> 00:10:36,180
document mostly I released it to
be community,

155
00:10:37,290 --> 00:10:40,290
editable or whatever. Yeah,
mostly because I just got so

156
00:10:40,290 --> 00:10:42,240
tired of writing. I've been
doing some stuff.

157
00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:45,900
It was time to it was time for
you to hand the baton over.

158
00:10:46,590 --> 00:10:51,420
Yeah, so I'm rewriting A lot of
it, not all of it. And I've

159
00:10:51,420 --> 00:10:57,510
taken a different course. And so
I'm cuz I have been asked, I

160
00:10:57,510 --> 00:11:00,660
think what happened is we didn't
say, Who is this really for? Who

161
00:11:00,660 --> 00:11:04,170
was this document for the person
who had the best answer,

162
00:11:04,170 --> 00:11:10,380
actually, inadvertently, was
James Cridland. He said, Oh, you

163
00:11:10,380 --> 00:11:14,190
know, I want to place the
journalists can understand, as I

164
00:11:14,190 --> 00:11:17,880
said, at this point, so this
comes into my rant. It's like,

165
00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:20,790
well, if we can't make
journalists understand and

166
00:11:20,790 --> 00:11:23,460
report on it, we're failing. If
we can make journalists

167
00:11:23,490 --> 00:11:26,610
understand it, and report on it
every single podcaster will be

168
00:11:26,610 --> 00:11:30,180
able to understand what's going
on here. Okay, so is a really

169
00:11:30,180 --> 00:11:35,520
good point. So in my writing, I
refer to legacy apps, Apple and

170
00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,880
Spotify. It's true.

171
00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,930
Thank you, My God, thank you for
doing that. Because you know,

172
00:11:42,930 --> 00:11:48,840
what pisses me off so much I
know, go in the IT world is when

173
00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:51,450
people take something that's
that is perfect, worked

174
00:11:51,450 --> 00:11:56,370
perfectly fine, and does and
serves millions and millions of

175
00:11:56,370 --> 00:12:00,180
people on a daily basis with
something and they call it

176
00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:05,700
legacy. Like it's old and beat
up and full of Botox and like,

177
00:12:05,700 --> 00:12:10,080
it's a piece of crap. Like, that
is so erratic. And I love that

178
00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,740
you did that. It's beautiful.
It's a it's a turnaround.

179
00:12:14,820 --> 00:12:18,120
It's the old and I'm writing the
sentence about new these new

180
00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:21,300
features. I like, Oh, no,
because I want to say, you know,

181
00:12:21,300 --> 00:12:25,680
you're podcasting. 2.0 is
backwards compatible with legacy

182
00:12:25,680 --> 00:12:33,360
apps. I love it. It's awesome.
It's all about the positioning.

183
00:12:34,590 --> 00:12:38,310
So yeah, so that's coming
together and actually is with

184
00:12:38,310 --> 00:12:40,500
the keeper right now. So you
know that that shits getting

185
00:12:40,500 --> 00:12:43,350
looked at she's now a
communications professional.

186
00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:47,490
There's, there's tons. Go ahead.

187
00:12:47,730 --> 00:12:49,650
Let me throw something in here
real quick, because this fit

188
00:12:49,650 --> 00:12:56,610
this fits in. So it fits into
the talk of legacy apps. That's

189
00:12:57,030 --> 00:13:00,180
a tweeted this morning on our
account, which we don't usually

190
00:13:00,180 --> 00:13:05,220
tweet that. I sent out a tweet.
And, and I feel pretty strongly

191
00:13:05,220 --> 00:13:08,280
about this. I started feeling
thinking about it when I woke up

192
00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:13,980
this morning. One thing that is
I'll say this almost shameful

193
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:20,580
that more podcast apps have not
adopted the transcript tag.

194
00:13:21,330 --> 00:13:23,040
Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely.

195
00:13:24,180 --> 00:13:27,330
And I mean, that I mean, that to
the bottom of my heart, by the

196
00:13:27,330 --> 00:13:30,810
way, from an MBA perspective,
it'll probably be mandatory at

197
00:13:30,810 --> 00:13:31,860
some point in the future.

198
00:13:32,310 --> 00:13:36,990
Yes, you know, so many, so many
of these podcasts, companies and

199
00:13:36,990 --> 00:13:44,190
apps, and I can I think they're
so you know, invested in, in,

200
00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:47,940
you know, I don't even know what
the word is, I don't want to say

201
00:13:47,940 --> 00:13:53,610
whoa, but like, like a modern a
modern care for things like the

202
00:13:53,610 --> 00:13:58,680
climate, and all these things
that we that we associate with

203
00:13:58,680 --> 00:14:03,120
progressive thinking,
considering minority groups and

204
00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:07,590
that kind of thing. The fact
that this so few apps have

205
00:14:07,590 --> 00:14:13,050
adopted the transcript tag,
which is immediately helps

206
00:14:13,410 --> 00:14:17,100
people with disabilities and
people learning trying to learn

207
00:14:17,100 --> 00:14:18,660
another language. Yes, I

208
00:14:18,660 --> 00:14:19,920
check. It's almost shameful.

209
00:14:19,950 --> 00:14:23,280
You put that actually in the in
the description in the document

210
00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:25,860
about and I hadn't even
considered the learning about a

211
00:14:25,860 --> 00:14:28,170
second language and it's really
true. And

212
00:14:28,710 --> 00:14:32,310
we met and we met a guy when me
and my wife met in Moscow,

213
00:14:32,310 --> 00:14:32,790
Russia.

214
00:14:33,510 --> 00:14:36,870
Okay, Dave, now you're blowing
my mind, brother.

215
00:14:37,050 --> 00:14:39,690
Sorry, that's a different story.

216
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:41,910
I usually spot the spook. Okay,
go for it.

217
00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:46,770
Well, who is it me or her
comrade? Tama Jones?

218
00:14:49,500 --> 00:14:56,850
Sir, no, we met on a trip to
Russia. And at the time, we had

219
00:14:56,850 --> 00:15:02,580
a translator and his name was
That oh my gosh, I Yvonne and

220
00:15:02,580 --> 00:15:06,000
Yvonne said that he learned
English he spoke very good

221
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:10,440
English. He said that he learned
English when he spent a couple

222
00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:15,270
years as an exchange student in
the US, and he learned it from

223
00:15:15,630 --> 00:15:19,650
watching cartoons on television
with subtitles.

224
00:15:20,730 --> 00:15:23,640
Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's how the
Dutch the Dutch have all movies

225
00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:26,550
subtitled. That's how they learn
English too. And they're very

226
00:15:26,550 --> 00:15:28,830
proficient. Yeah,

227
00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:32,970
I mean, I think that I really
think that if you are a podcast,

228
00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:37,050
and I'm not, I'm the type of guy
that's like, Hey, you do it

229
00:15:37,050 --> 00:15:40,530
every one of his frame free
market free everything. But, but

230
00:15:40,530 --> 00:15:45,360
I really do think that that that
tag is such low hanging fruit

231
00:15:45,690 --> 00:15:49,770
that would serve so much good in
the community that I do feel

232
00:15:49,770 --> 00:15:53,940
like it's worthy of being
labeled as shameful that so many

233
00:15:53,940 --> 00:15:54,840
have not done it.

234
00:15:55,380 --> 00:15:59,760
At last count 13.2% of all
podcast feeds had the names to

235
00:15:59,790 --> 00:16:04,050
namespace adoption. So it's
totally possible we have a

236
00:16:04,050 --> 00:16:07,470
number of of hosting companies
already pumping them out, and a

237
00:16:07,500 --> 00:16:12,300
lot of apps that understand
them. And the way to do this,

238
00:16:12,300 --> 00:16:16,590
and this is this is the constant
issue with podcasting. The

239
00:16:16,590 --> 00:16:20,790
players as in the players in the
game, app developers hosting

240
00:16:20,790 --> 00:16:26,430
companies, they always forget
the power of the content. The

241
00:16:26,430 --> 00:16:32,490
podcast creators are your users
too. And they will drive this

242
00:16:32,490 --> 00:16:35,340
they will drive adoption. I
mean, when I when I started

243
00:16:35,340 --> 00:16:38,610
pushing the chapter images
rotating, it became a thing.

244
00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:41,340
Yeah. Yeah,

245
00:16:41,370 --> 00:16:43,500
the content drives everything.
Yes.

246
00:16:43,650 --> 00:16:46,740
Well, that's often forgotten.
And Well, anyway, this is why

247
00:16:47,070 --> 00:16:51,120
the entire podcast in 2.0 so
exciting as it kind of

248
00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:54,210
centralizes around podcast
index.org right now and one of

249
00:16:54,210 --> 00:16:58,260
the first things that happened
for us as we started this

250
00:16:58,260 --> 00:17:02,820
project one less than six months
ago, and the two stated goals

251
00:17:02,820 --> 00:17:06,240
were to preserve podcasting as a
platform for free speech. And to

252
00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,910
retool podcasting as a platform
for value for all the

253
00:17:08,910 --> 00:17:14,970
participants. And we had the
lightning network in mind. We

254
00:17:14,970 --> 00:17:19,110
had already done a real deep
dive and I was understanding it

255
00:17:19,110 --> 00:17:22,290
and I was able to convince you
and you foolishly went, Okay,

256
00:17:22,290 --> 00:17:23,340
I'm sure Adam is right.

257
00:17:23,759 --> 00:17:26,429
Now you called me You called me
when I was driving up to North

258
00:17:26,429 --> 00:17:30,209
Alabama. Oh, let's see, I meet
up with a couple of guys. And

259
00:17:30,389 --> 00:17:32,549
that was like a two hour phone
call.

260
00:17:32,579 --> 00:17:35,399
I think I was in my car when I
was nine. I was in my car too.

261
00:17:35,399 --> 00:17:37,949
For some reason. I can't
remember. I think so. I think to

262
00:17:38,129 --> 00:17:39,359
some call or something. Yeah.

263
00:17:40,110 --> 00:17:42,570
Yeah. And you laid it all out.
You're like, you're like, here's

264
00:17:42,570 --> 00:17:45,300
the way I think this could work.
And, and I think it can be like

265
00:17:45,300 --> 00:17:47,640
this. And we I mean, that was
like a marathon call.

266
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:52,260
So we basically, you know, jam
this value for value was valued

267
00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:56,430
tag into the namespace as Okay,
we'll see when it really goes

268
00:17:56,430 --> 00:18:01,650
in, but let's experiment with
it. And then on podcast, index

269
00:18:01,650 --> 00:18:06,060
dot social, I get this ping from
cuz I was actually I was

270
00:18:06,060 --> 00:18:09,390
searching around that's what I
was. I was searching around who

271
00:18:09,420 --> 00:18:13,260
who can do this stuff. This
lightning i'd figured out keys

272
00:18:13,260 --> 00:18:15,090
and and so I was trying to
figure out where it you know,

273
00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:21,750
who was doing keys and and I
came across swings chat. I think

274
00:18:21,750 --> 00:18:26,880
something on their GitHub, not
even the actual app. And I was

275
00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:29,730
like, God, this look what I from
what I'm reading here. It sounds

276
00:18:29,730 --> 00:18:33,180
like I think they even had a
line on the GitHub, great for

277
00:18:33,180 --> 00:18:36,480
podcasting, too. You know, I was
like, Okay, this guy, it's like

278
00:18:36,690 --> 00:18:40,350
soon to include podcasting. And
like, holy crap, these guys kind

279
00:18:40,350 --> 00:18:45,510
of get it so I think I emailed
the info at stack work calm or

280
00:18:45,930 --> 00:18:48,300
something like that. I think
that's what it was. We're in

281
00:18:48,300 --> 00:18:53,700
full swing stock chat. And then
I got a ping back from one of

282
00:18:53,700 --> 00:18:57,540
our guests who we have today who
I wanted to bring in since we've

283
00:18:57,540 --> 00:18:59,940
been chatting away and Dave you
and I can have this board

284
00:18:59,940 --> 00:19:03,180
meeting forever but we did
invite two other members of the

285
00:19:03,210 --> 00:19:07,590
community from swings chat,
please welcome to podcasting.

286
00:19:07,590 --> 00:19:11,610
2.0 Evan feenstra and Paul each
boy

287
00:19:13,980 --> 00:19:14,820
Hey guys.

288
00:19:18,660 --> 00:19:21,060
You're as bad at interest as I
am Yeah.

289
00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,040
I think what let's start with
Paul first because Paul was the

290
00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:32,400
one who contacted me. Paul, once
you tell me a bit about how you

291
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:36,030
found out I guess that email and
then what you're thinking and

292
00:19:36,150 --> 00:19:39,030
shoot want you to guys just tell
us what the hell you're doing.

293
00:19:40,470 --> 00:19:44,250
Well, I was first of all good to
be here. I went into full on

294
00:19:44,250 --> 00:19:46,890
podcast listening mode while you
guys are talking because that's

295
00:19:46,890 --> 00:19:50,100
how I'm used to hearing here and
there pretty much gone. Whoa,

296
00:19:50,100 --> 00:19:51,150
wait, I got to talk now.

297
00:19:51,180 --> 00:19:52,890
So you to sleep.

298
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:55,710
You I was washing dishes over
there.

299
00:19:56,730 --> 00:19:59,880
It's just like clubhouse you're
on stage. Okay, you can talk

300
00:19:59,880 --> 00:19:59,970
now.

301
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,760
I can't say Wait, but but I
didn't raise my hand.

302
00:20:04,380 --> 00:20:05,220
So

303
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:06,870
yeah, I mean, I

304
00:20:06,930 --> 00:20:10,290
remember getting your email, I
think around the exact same

305
00:20:10,290 --> 00:20:14,850
time, it really was amazing
timing that I found your podcast

306
00:20:14,850 --> 00:20:17,820
social. And some of the first
features we did was was thanks

307
00:20:17,820 --> 00:20:22,260
was around podcasters. Because
if you think about what we're

308
00:20:22,260 --> 00:20:25,410
doing, and just for people out
there who don't know, us, but

309
00:20:25,410 --> 00:20:28,830
we've been chatting for a while
now with you guys. And we really

310
00:20:28,830 --> 00:20:33,660
wanted to bring the ability to
fund media and fun content

311
00:20:34,050 --> 00:20:37,950
without having to go through the
middleman. And so when I think I

312
00:20:37,950 --> 00:20:41,610
heard you speak, on one of the
podcasts you were on a camera

313
00:20:41,610 --> 00:20:45,480
was a while ago, I just said,
Man, this guy gets it. And I got

314
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,900
onto your mastodon, and then at
some point, we're chatting. So

315
00:20:48,900 --> 00:20:49,110
that was

316
00:20:49,109 --> 00:20:54,209
great. Right, right, right. It
probably would be handy if you

317
00:20:54,209 --> 00:20:58,319
could explain a little bit about
Sphinx chat. And how podcasting

318
00:20:58,319 --> 00:21:00,659
integrates into that just for
people who've never seen it

319
00:21:00,659 --> 00:21:01,079
before.

320
00:21:02,069 --> 00:21:06,089
Yeah, so thanks, chat is the
ability to communicate over the

321
00:21:06,089 --> 00:21:10,229
lightning network. And so what's
different in a lot of people ask

322
00:21:10,259 --> 00:21:12,329
you guys to talk to your
listeners about lightning

323
00:21:12,329 --> 00:21:15,839
network. But what's different
about this is that everyone has

324
00:21:15,839 --> 00:21:20,489
tried to do payments on top of
the free internet. So you got a

325
00:21:20,489 --> 00:21:23,519
website, now you can go pay with
your credit card, that's always

326
00:21:23,519 --> 00:21:27,779
stuck out as a sore thumb. with
lightning network, you're really

327
00:21:27,779 --> 00:21:30,569
adding the ability to
communicate and send content

328
00:21:30,599 --> 00:21:34,799
over a payment network, the
payments are really just native

329
00:21:34,829 --> 00:21:37,679
to the whole experience. And
that's pretty cool. And that's

330
00:21:37,679 --> 00:21:40,799
what when similar to you guys,
when you were doing that

331
00:21:40,799 --> 00:21:43,409
marathon call, I read the white
paper and said, Oh, my God, this

332
00:21:43,409 --> 00:21:46,049
is really big and really
different. And then people like

333
00:21:46,049 --> 00:21:50,309
Evan, who designed a lot of the
systems itself, basically made

334
00:21:50,309 --> 00:21:53,399
it all happen. So you can listen
to podcasts, you can talk to

335
00:21:53,399 --> 00:21:57,749
people, you can talk to your
friends, you can join these

336
00:21:57,749 --> 00:22:01,139
tribes, and we'll do a lot more
going forward. You know,

337
00:22:01,170 --> 00:22:05,550
what I enjoyed the most when
when we actually hopped on, on a

338
00:22:05,550 --> 00:22:10,500
call, Paul. And I think we spoke
for an hour, maybe longer, just

339
00:22:10,500 --> 00:22:14,670
philosophically, and it clicked
so deeply right away. And I've

340
00:22:14,670 --> 00:22:18,540
even stolen some of the things
you said, because, you know, I

341
00:22:18,540 --> 00:22:22,260
know the inherent issues with
advertising and creating content

342
00:22:22,260 --> 00:22:25,530
and how that, by definition
limits you and what you can say

343
00:22:25,530 --> 00:22:28,140
sort of we can talk about a
competing product to favorably

344
00:22:28,140 --> 00:22:32,280
just as one small example, or
have a wrong political opinion

345
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,700
that might not fit with the
advertiser. And you boil that

346
00:22:35,700 --> 00:22:40,710
down for me into advertising is
censorship. And, and I was like,

347
00:22:40,740 --> 00:22:43,980
okay, just just like when you
were listening to our shows, I

348
00:22:43,980 --> 00:22:47,520
said, Yeah, this guy really gets
it. And in addition to that,

349
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,330
it's like, as I was learning the
Bitcoin community, and certainly

350
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:57,000
those who are in lightning
development, everybody wants to

351
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:02,910
get their fair piece, and they
want to get paid. In fact, one

352
00:23:02,910 --> 00:23:05,280
of the things you and I talked
about is, Hey, you know, if out

353
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,640
of this comes one or two huge
Silicon Valley, multi

354
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:13,170
billionaires, then we fucked it
up big time. But so that led to

355
00:23:13,170 --> 00:23:19,320
another quote of yours that I
use, the free is over. And

356
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,200
that's, I think, core to what
Sphinx chat is all about, as you

357
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,980
talk about it being really an
application that sits on top of

358
00:23:25,980 --> 00:23:29,130
a payment network and uses that
as the vehicle for all these

359
00:23:29,130 --> 00:23:30,510
payloads of content.

360
00:23:32,309 --> 00:23:36,629
Yeah, and I think what we talked
about on that first call, is it

361
00:23:36,629 --> 00:23:40,589
free to free sounds great,
right? And humans are hardwired

362
00:23:40,589 --> 00:23:45,389
to respond to free differently.
But free when it comes to

363
00:23:45,389 --> 00:23:49,259
technology turned out to be the
most expensive business model

364
00:23:49,259 --> 00:23:53,189
out there, if you value your
time. And that's the problem.

365
00:23:53,729 --> 00:23:58,679
We've all accidentally and
without really intending traded

366
00:23:58,679 --> 00:24:01,829
our attention on our time and
bitcoiners talk a lot about

367
00:24:01,829 --> 00:24:05,879
scarce assets. And so what's the
one thing everyone talks about?

368
00:24:05,879 --> 00:24:10,109
You never get more of his time?
And so without really setting

369
00:24:10,109 --> 00:24:12,389
out to do it, and I don't think
there was some conspiracy

370
00:24:12,389 --> 00:24:15,389
theory. And then, I mean, you
and I are around for the early

371
00:24:15,389 --> 00:24:17,939
days of the internet, no one set
out a plan, hey, I'm going to

372
00:24:17,939 --> 00:24:19,889
build this free service, I'm
going to get everyone to pay

373
00:24:19,889 --> 00:24:22,949
attention to it. I was there we
were all trying to make money,

374
00:24:22,949 --> 00:24:25,739
but there was no money to be
made on the internet, right?

375
00:24:25,769 --> 00:24:29,099
We're, you'd be crazy to put a
credit card into a website in

376
00:24:29,099 --> 00:24:33,959
the mid 90s. I felt totally
unnatural, right. So if we had

377
00:24:33,959 --> 00:24:36,989
had Bitcoin or an internet
currency of that time, who knows

378
00:24:36,989 --> 00:24:40,169
how we how it would have turned
out, but if you have the

379
00:24:40,169 --> 00:24:45,359
services and they are free, they
will grow and someone has to pay

380
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,359
for it sometime. And advertisers
raised their hand and said, Hey,

381
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,749
we'll pay for it. How do I know
I worked in advertising in the

382
00:24:51,749 --> 00:24:59,999
90s so believe me these guys
were had no idea there was no

383
00:24:59,999 --> 00:25:02,939
Plan, there was nothing, it was
just where eyeballs will go pay

384
00:25:02,939 --> 00:25:05,489
for eyeballs, whereas attention
will pay for attention by my

385
00:25:05,489 --> 00:25:10,859
widget, you know. So that is, I
think, our the opportunity that

386
00:25:10,859 --> 00:25:15,059
we're all sitting at now. And I
think this is where podcasting

387
00:25:15,449 --> 00:25:21,359
really is the crux of a historic
change from what we accidentally

388
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:26,939
got into versus what we have
going forward. So, and you guys

389
00:25:26,939 --> 00:25:30,119
rag on Apple and stuff for being
so out of date with podcasting,

390
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:34,799
but I view that as a positive
because it is so ripe for

391
00:25:34,799 --> 00:25:37,739
change. And what you guys are
doing is kind of unlocking the

392
00:25:37,739 --> 00:25:40,889
dam that is going to allow some
of these changes to take place.

393
00:25:41,399 --> 00:25:44,849
And serendipity serendipitously,
here's Bitcoin, here's lightning

394
00:25:44,849 --> 00:25:49,379
at the exact same time. We
really have this opportunity, so

395
00:25:49,409 --> 00:25:52,709
you guys better not screw it up.
What,

396
00:25:53,069 --> 00:25:54,389
you know what we're gonna screw
it up?

397
00:25:55,980 --> 00:25:58,920
No doubt about. So when Dave and
I first

398
00:25:58,950 --> 00:26:01,440
that's why we have Evan, you
guys. Yes, yeah,

399
00:26:02,460 --> 00:26:03,420
I'll fix the bugs.

400
00:26:04,650 --> 00:26:09,690
That's a perfect time to bring
Evan in. As you know, as we were

401
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,170
just getting this initial, you
know, the initial front to back

402
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,470
working from podcaster
wallet.com. And having the feed

403
00:26:16,470 --> 00:26:20,250
show up and tribes automatically
created and tons of stuff. You

404
00:26:20,250 --> 00:26:25,350
know, we my conversations were
really with Paul and two, were

405
00:26:25,350 --> 00:26:27,360
talking, you know, the three of
us, but then there was this

406
00:26:27,360 --> 00:26:30,390
magical thing that would happen.
And that turned out that magical

407
00:26:30,390 --> 00:26:35,790
thing had a name. Evan, who's
one of my favorite kind of

408
00:26:35,790 --> 00:26:38,400
developers, because he's a
musician. He plays, you know,

409
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:43,260
guitars, saxophone trumpet,
which I know is like that, that

410
00:26:43,260 --> 00:26:48,300
confirms my software development
is science, but also really big

411
00:26:48,300 --> 00:26:51,450
art. So admin, it's really,
really good to meet the guy

412
00:26:51,450 --> 00:26:54,000
who's been who's been doing a
lot of that behind the scenes,

413
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:54,750
so to speak.

414
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,950
Yeah, it's been a lot of fun to
work on this stuff. I

415
00:26:58,950 --> 00:27:02,520
definitely. I mean, I've I've
always kind of seen

416
00:27:02,730 --> 00:27:08,190
micropayments in general, being
the real sort of potential in

417
00:27:08,190 --> 00:27:12,840
Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies.
And the thing that can really

418
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,050
change the internet, because
exactly like you guys talked

419
00:27:16,050 --> 00:27:20,130
about with your value for value.
When you're streaming money one

420
00:27:20,130 --> 00:27:23,700
way, and you're streaming
content back the other way. You

421
00:27:23,700 --> 00:27:27,180
don't necessarily need, you
don't need that credit card

422
00:27:27,180 --> 00:27:29,430
number, right. You don't need a
username, you don't need a

423
00:27:29,430 --> 00:27:33,420
password. I mean, we don't we
don't even we don't even know

424
00:27:33,660 --> 00:27:37,680
how many users we have on
Sphinx. Good day. This is not

425
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:42,120
even a way to know. In fact,
this release, where we just put

426
00:27:42,120 --> 00:27:46,020
out earlier today is adding
private lightning channels to

427
00:27:46,050 --> 00:27:50,040
spank Ooh, nice, which means you
won't even be able to see the

428
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:50,520
routing,

429
00:27:50,819 --> 00:27:54,389
right, you won't be able to scan
the graph to see who's using

430
00:27:54,389 --> 00:27:54,989
Spanx.

431
00:27:55,920 --> 00:28:00,870
I'm sure marnix is gonna love
that. Message Board. He's always

432
00:28:00,870 --> 00:28:03,180
bitching about he can't they
can't i can't context. Thanks,

433
00:28:03,180 --> 00:28:05,190
nodes. Hey, um, yeah,

434
00:28:05,190 --> 00:28:07,710
so like, it's more that that
gives more privacy to users,

435
00:28:07,710 --> 00:28:12,600
obviously. But it also means for
us, we don't we don't have to

436
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:17,730
manage all these identities and
and these relationships with

437
00:28:17,730 --> 00:28:22,140
users necessarily, I mean, why
should my online identity be

438
00:28:22,350 --> 00:28:26,190
mediated by some database in
some data center, right? Like,

439
00:28:26,190 --> 00:28:29,820
if I want to, I can do that. But
also, if I want to, I can just

440
00:28:29,820 --> 00:28:33,000
run my identity at home on a
Raspberry Pi. So, you know,

441
00:28:32,999 --> 00:28:37,529
I've been ever since I was
introduced to, to the tribes

442
00:28:37,529 --> 00:28:42,839
concept. And, and an important
part of that is boosting, which

443
00:28:42,839 --> 00:28:51,119
is just fucking phenomenal idea.
The, the, I've been trying to

444
00:28:51,509 --> 00:28:55,619
communicate to our developers,
that once we have some

445
00:28:55,619 --> 00:29:00,599
infrastructure in place with
lightning network, how much

446
00:29:00,869 --> 00:29:05,579
complexity goes away in creating
community features? Exactly what

447
00:29:05,579 --> 00:29:08,969
you just said, Evan, you don't
need to maintain a database, you

448
00:29:08,969 --> 00:29:12,089
know, your authentication can be
built into your, your node ID,

449
00:29:12,089 --> 00:29:17,219
all these things can just happen
seamlessly. But I think it's one

450
00:29:17,219 --> 00:29:20,039
of those things, you really have
to see it and experience it to

451
00:29:20,039 --> 00:29:21,689
understand it and believe it

452
00:29:21,839 --> 00:29:22,799
exactly right.

453
00:29:23,369 --> 00:29:28,169
How does that play into with the
sinks, like, sinks relay is

454
00:29:28,169 --> 00:29:33,209
something that, that I've been
pretty intrigued by I know that

455
00:29:33,779 --> 00:29:36,869
a lot of people are setting that
up on a Raspberry Pi. I mean,

456
00:29:36,899 --> 00:29:41,399
how much it's a little bit of a
brain twister, to think about

457
00:29:41,429 --> 00:29:45,299
that whole thing. And but if you
set up a Sphinx relay, just for

458
00:29:45,299 --> 00:29:49,589
my knowledge, and for anybody
else, who's who's curious. I

459
00:29:49,589 --> 00:29:53,669
mean, what can you not do and
what I mean, are you a full

460
00:29:53,669 --> 00:29:57,959
participant in in Sphynx chat,
just like you would be if you

461
00:29:57,959 --> 00:29:58,619
were hosted

462
00:30:00,269 --> 00:30:03,989
Yeah, that's all a hosted note
is is just a relay running in

463
00:30:03,989 --> 00:30:07,829
the cloud. So if you set it at
home, you're basically storing

464
00:30:07,829 --> 00:30:14,909
your messages at home. And your,
you know, chat records at home

465
00:30:14,909 --> 00:30:15,389
and everything,

466
00:30:15,449 --> 00:30:18,029
it really became apparent to me
how it works, you know, because

467
00:30:18,119 --> 00:30:20,999
when you just have your Sphinx
chat app, and you just connected

468
00:30:20,999 --> 00:30:24,629
to Sphinx chat, you know,
whatever is working. And then

469
00:30:24,629 --> 00:30:30,089
when I set one up on my raspy
Blitz at home, and the minute my

470
00:30:30,329 --> 00:30:37,409
full node, total came up, that's
when it hit me, oh, it's just a

471
00:30:37,409 --> 00:30:42,239
wallet. It has elements of all
these other wallet, for

472
00:30:42,239 --> 00:30:44,429
instance, Thunder hub, you can,
you know, it's a little

473
00:30:44,429 --> 00:30:47,099
different, but you can send a
chat message with one satoshis

474
00:30:47,099 --> 00:30:52,109
to another Thunder hub user. And
that's when it boiling, it just

475
00:30:52,109 --> 00:30:56,669
went, the lightning bolts went
off. And from what and maybe I'd

476
00:30:56,669 --> 00:30:58,709
really like to talk about
scalability for a second,

477
00:30:58,709 --> 00:31:02,879
because it's really important
for the overall rollout of what

478
00:31:02,879 --> 00:31:06,269
we're doing. First of all, I
have the feeling that that we

479
00:31:06,269 --> 00:31:09,749
broke you a little bit, but that
really became advantageous,

480
00:31:10,259 --> 00:31:13,379
because we learned so much about
you know, the number of

481
00:31:13,379 --> 00:31:17,279
transactions how this will be
working with no, I mean, I know

482
00:31:17,279 --> 00:31:20,159
you guys were working really
hard behind the scenes for weeks

483
00:31:20,159 --> 00:31:23,399
and weeks and weeks. And from
what I understand, one of the

484
00:31:23,399 --> 00:31:26,969
most exciting developments to
come out of that is for scape

485
00:31:26,969 --> 00:31:31,259
for scalability, is there'll be
different ways to host virtual

486
00:31:31,259 --> 00:31:32,939
nodes. Am I saying this
correctly?

487
00:31:34,530 --> 00:31:36,090
Right, yes, you heard of this?

488
00:31:36,149 --> 00:31:36,929
Yeah, go ahead.

489
00:31:37,050 --> 00:31:39,360
You pick it? Well, I was gonna
say it's part of the Private

490
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:44,070
Channel. thing, being able to
put a private channel node

491
00:31:44,070 --> 00:31:52,410
behind another routing node, but
also potentially, like a virtual

492
00:31:52,470 --> 00:31:56,190
private node. Maybe you can
explain them better. Paul, I'm

493
00:31:56,190 --> 00:31:56,910
so deep into

494
00:31:59,250 --> 00:32:00,090
that didn't help him

495
00:32:00,150 --> 00:32:00,690
now. Thanks.

496
00:32:02,460 --> 00:32:06,750
I'll, I think what we were
talking about before is a

497
00:32:06,750 --> 00:32:09,330
different way to read. So maybe
taking a step back is think of

498
00:32:09,330 --> 00:32:14,130
the app, the sinks app on your
phone as a remote control. So

499
00:32:14,490 --> 00:32:17,310
just the way you could control
your TV from, you know, your if

500
00:32:17,310 --> 00:32:21,240
you have an iPhone from your
Apple remote, the Sphinx app on

501
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:25,860
your phone is really just
talking to relay that's running

502
00:32:25,890 --> 00:32:30,060
on a lightning node. Right? So
relay is just translating the

503
00:32:30,060 --> 00:32:34,020
tap finger tapping on your phone
into things that lightning can

504
00:32:34,020 --> 00:32:37,920
understand, as a relay
translates that into a lightning

505
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,100
message. And then it sends from
there out onto the lightning

506
00:32:41,100 --> 00:32:44,010
network to everyone else, it
looks just like a normal

507
00:32:44,010 --> 00:32:48,960
lightning transaction, could be
a payment, it could be an invite

508
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,800
to a video call, it could be a
message, the whole point is you

509
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,860
don't know and no one should
know, right? you increase the

510
00:32:55,860 --> 00:32:59,760
privacy side of what's
happening. And so you don't want

511
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,790
stuff that looks like a payment
to look different from something

512
00:33:02,790 --> 00:33:06,090
that looks like just the
message. And if you have an I

513
00:33:06,090 --> 00:33:10,230
think we just hit we just tried
to, we actually can't tell. But

514
00:33:10,230 --> 00:33:13,170
if you happen to be using one of
our routing nodes on the

515
00:33:13,170 --> 00:33:17,310
lightning network, we have
forwarded well over 350,000

516
00:33:17,310 --> 00:33:21,810
messages in the last three
months. So far. Wow. That's

517
00:33:21,810 --> 00:33:24,180
incredible. That's not the
counting the minutes that are

518
00:33:24,180 --> 00:33:27,120
being sent to you guys. Yeah, we
that's just,

519
00:33:27,150 --> 00:33:31,920
you know, we're seeing like
10,000 minutes a month, that's

520
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,710
off the last 10,000
transactions.

521
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:40,170
Well, that that's gonna grow
with what, what happened, Tom

522
00:33:40,170 --> 00:33:43,740
and the rest of the guys just
did. So there's, there's several

523
00:33:43,740 --> 00:33:47,370
people working on this mine, it
seems to so just, we could have

524
00:33:47,370 --> 00:33:50,610
everyone on. But um, so back to
that thing. So you have remote

525
00:33:50,610 --> 00:33:52,950
control, you have relay,
translating, then you have

526
00:33:52,950 --> 00:33:55,740
lightning, all of these message
in all of these transactions

527
00:33:55,740 --> 00:33:59,010
bouncing around the peer to peer
lightning network. And so think

528
00:33:59,010 --> 00:34:01,830
of the lightning record is just
a constellation of these

529
00:34:01,830 --> 00:34:04,230
computers that are talking to
each other using the lightning

530
00:34:04,230 --> 00:34:07,920
protocol. And you're sending
tiny amounts of Bitcoin with

531
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,940
every transaction or message
that goes through that network.

532
00:34:12,210 --> 00:34:15,270
And you're paying your freight
there's tiny tiny fees 1000s of

533
00:34:15,270 --> 00:34:18,900
a penny or even a Mila fat right
which I don't even know what the

534
00:34:18,900 --> 00:34:22,800
unit of that is a penny right
now, but you're paying miniscule

535
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,550
amounts but you are paying and
what that does is I think of it

536
00:34:26,550 --> 00:34:30,660
like those, it's like an immune
system we're free it's in there

537
00:34:30,900 --> 00:34:34,410
and free equals abuse free is
denial of service for you to

538
00:34:34,410 --> 00:34:37,260
spam. And then once you have all
those things and you need

539
00:34:37,260 --> 00:34:40,740
somebody to pay for it that
opens the door to centralization

540
00:34:40,740 --> 00:34:43,050
and advertising and all the
censorship and you end up in the

541
00:34:43,050 --> 00:34:44,010
same place we are now

542
00:34:44,099 --> 00:34:48,239
oh I am writing down free is
abuse as another one I'm just

543
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,989
steal from you. Thank you very
much. Yeah, okay.

544
00:34:52,860 --> 00:34:57,840
So that to me, and this is where
just in this goes back to the

545
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,120
lightning protocol devs. And by
the way, that goes down to The

546
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,280
Bitcoin devs, who we should all
be supporting, we're trying to

547
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,790
figure out how to do a better
job of that ourselves, as we are

548
00:35:05,790 --> 00:35:09,510
freeloading off of Bitcoin and
the lightning protocol and

549
00:35:09,510 --> 00:35:12,510
building this app layer on top
of these two things, and I know

550
00:35:12,510 --> 00:35:15,180
you guys know Ryan Gentry and
you've talked to folks at

551
00:35:15,180 --> 00:35:17,520
lightning labs, there's other
implementations are see

552
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,940
lightning, there's, I think in
France, there's a really light

553
00:35:20,940 --> 00:35:23,910
node client coming out of Japan.
So there's really cool stuff

554
00:35:23,910 --> 00:35:27,720
happening. And we're just
scratching the surface. And just

555
00:35:27,720 --> 00:35:30,510
one thing that's happening in
one part of the lightning

556
00:35:30,510 --> 00:35:35,160
network, so to people who are
new to this, don't think of what

557
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:38,040
we're doing here as all
inclusive of what's happening,

558
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:42,090
lightning, tons of other stuff
happening. So but Yeah, go

559
00:35:42,090 --> 00:35:42,300
ahead.

560
00:35:42,330 --> 00:35:43,470
No, go ahead, please.

561
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:48,210
Yeah, so I was just gonna say so
that understanding that

562
00:35:48,210 --> 00:35:51,240
structure, Dave, to what you're
asking about, what does relay do

563
00:35:51,240 --> 00:35:55,890
is really important. So that
gets you and if you are running

564
00:35:55,890 --> 00:36:01,200
relay and your node and you have
a channel, then you can operate

565
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:05,400
over this free protocol. And
you're a full fledged lightning

566
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,000
node on the on the platform on
the network. So that could be

567
00:36:09,390 --> 00:36:12,780
from a Raspberry Pi. And there
are tons of people now running

568
00:36:12,780 --> 00:36:17,190
on rolls running, running
Raspberry Pi, Blitz, all good

569
00:36:17,190 --> 00:36:21,360
stuff, right? Different pros and
cons to each. None of them are

570
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,930
simple yet. So if anyone tells
you they're simple, I had

571
00:36:24,930 --> 00:36:29,190
trouble doing it. People have
trouble doing this. So if you're

572
00:36:29,340 --> 00:36:32,970
trying if you're thinking, hey,
that must be me. No, no, it's

573
00:36:32,970 --> 00:36:37,200
not you. And what we're gonna do
if there's interest and maybe

574
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:41,280
hit people up on the on the
mastodon group, is if I talked

575
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:46,890
to Gonzalo about running a once
a week, video chat, or just some

576
00:36:46,890 --> 00:36:50,730
meetup or something online,
where everyone who wants to run

577
00:36:50,730 --> 00:36:54,180
one at home, we could spend an
hour answering any questions.

578
00:36:54,180 --> 00:36:57,090
Oh, that's right. On channels a
good idea. It's kind of doing

579
00:36:57,090 --> 00:36:58,290
like a build party.

580
00:36:58,380 --> 00:37:02,130
So I've seen we already have day
probably like five or six devs

581
00:37:02,130 --> 00:37:06,030
now who have set up a variety of
different different types of

582
00:37:06,150 --> 00:37:07,440
nodes at home are

583
00:37:07,470 --> 00:37:08,550
Yeah, that's right.

584
00:37:08,700 --> 00:37:11,190
Yeah. And it's been it's been
beautiful to watch, you know,

585
00:37:11,190 --> 00:37:15,450
the all the struggles, all the
things that can go wrong, even,

586
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,030
you know, hey, I set up a raspy
Blitz, but I don't have the

587
00:37:18,030 --> 00:37:22,860
chain on my drive, you know, two
days later, okay. All of these

588
00:37:22,890 --> 00:37:27,210
minor things, Nat, port
forwarding, etc. But yeah, of

589
00:37:27,210 --> 00:37:29,880
course, that's it's all going to
get easier. How are you going?

590
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:36,210
How are you positioning, Sphinx
chat? in the market? It being? I

591
00:37:36,210 --> 00:37:38,940
mean, is there? Is there a
category that it fits under? Is

592
00:37:38,940 --> 00:37:41,370
it because it doesn't really
feel like it? That's the

593
00:37:41,370 --> 00:37:44,070
category all by itself? Yeah,

594
00:37:44,100 --> 00:37:47,790
I mean, I try to think about
that. Because when you're trying

595
00:37:47,790 --> 00:37:49,800
to describe what you're working
on your friends, it's a little

596
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:51,960
bit confusing. So they're
saying, you know, friends, they

597
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,810
still wait, you guys are a
podcast app now?

598
00:37:54,839 --> 00:37:56,369
Yeah. Yeah.

599
00:37:57,359 --> 00:37:59,999
You know, a lot of people say
wallet. I think all of those

600
00:37:59,999 --> 00:38:03,989
terms can really limit what if
you haven't system that's this

601
00:38:03,989 --> 00:38:08,939
new. To use a dated analogy can
sometimes be a problem, right?

602
00:38:08,939 --> 00:38:11,879
It can limit what people think
you can do or what you think you

603
00:38:11,879 --> 00:38:17,219
can do yourself, right. So what
we're maybe what we're trying to

604
00:38:17,219 --> 00:38:19,649
do is if I think back to a
couple of things, it's the

605
00:38:19,649 --> 00:38:23,639
wallet part is really about the
ability to earn. Right now.

606
00:38:23,669 --> 00:38:27,329
Hopefully, this is generating
stats to podcast index.

607
00:38:27,630 --> 00:38:30,780
Oh, it's generating SATs. Let me
just say something about that

608
00:38:30,780 --> 00:38:35,250
quick. Yeah. So one of the one
of the things that we came up

609
00:38:35,250 --> 00:38:38,610
with was this split. So you're
sending, you know, payments,

610
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:43,320
you're splitting up a per minute
payment to podcast or defined

611
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,440
recipients. And just to give you
an idea, because the numbers are

612
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,470
very low, it's micro payments,
and we only have you know, what,

613
00:38:49,470 --> 00:38:52,740
maybe a dozen people or so who I
really, I don't know, I mean, no

614
00:38:52,740 --> 00:38:55,140
one knows exactly how much I
think Marty has a lot of

615
00:38:55,140 --> 00:39:01,110
listeners, but it's limited. And
so one of the guys who he his

616
00:39:01,110 --> 00:39:06,300
name is Neil, he's the clip
custodian nickname. And he's

617
00:39:06,300 --> 00:39:09,900
been creating like 10 to 12
really high quality clips for me

618
00:39:09,900 --> 00:39:13,590
to play on no agenda, every
single show. And so I gave him a

619
00:39:13,590 --> 00:39:20,820
5% split in the in the in the
value block. And, and Neil, you

620
00:39:20,820 --> 00:39:24,450
know, I don't know how
sophisticated he is. But I sent

621
00:39:24,450 --> 00:39:27,900
him an invite he got set up on
swings chat. I said, you know,

622
00:39:27,900 --> 00:39:30,150
can you give me your node, he
was able to figure that out.

623
00:39:30,330 --> 00:39:35,250
Dave put it into the block. And
now he says it's Adams it's such

624
00:39:35,370 --> 00:39:38,520
cuz he will do this for free. He
doesn't need anything for it. He

625
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:43,530
says it's like mental fuel of
motivation, like a micro dosing

626
00:39:43,530 --> 00:39:47,220
little bits of goodness, every
single time because that each

627
00:39:47,220 --> 00:39:51,000
payment each streaming payment,
represents someone who is

628
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,390
enjoying what he was also a part
of, it's I get I really get

629
00:39:54,390 --> 00:39:57,660
goosebumps when I say it because
I know that if this is times

630
00:39:57,660 --> 00:40:00,450
1000 people are going to be
making some real money. And it's

631
00:40:00,450 --> 00:40:02,100
gonna be really crazy.

632
00:40:03,510 --> 00:40:06,630
I want to see it, I love to see
it. That's the freedom to earn

633
00:40:06,810 --> 00:40:09,150
it. Here's the thing, too, that
we shouldn't ignore. So for

634
00:40:09,150 --> 00:40:12,960
everyone who's doing podcasting
or any content creation, but for

635
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:18,600
now podcasting, the audience was
limited by the payment system,

636
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,870
right? So if you want audience
support, how do I get you to

637
00:40:21,870 --> 00:40:26,520
support? We'll do Venmo, do you
have PayPal, cash, app cards,

638
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,720
cash out, you just cut out what
percentage of the universe of

639
00:40:30,720 --> 00:40:35,310
the world right can't pay you.
So you have an audience, someone

640
00:40:35,310 --> 00:40:38,250
in a suburb outside of Manila,
listen, your podcast and getting

641
00:40:38,250 --> 00:40:42,750
a lot of value out of it. Now
you can capture that value. That

642
00:40:42,750 --> 00:40:46,800
person actually I think,
experiences it differently. When

643
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,500
they are supporting the thing
they appreciate, I actually

644
00:40:49,500 --> 00:40:53,040
think the listening experience
is better, when you know that

645
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:54,330
you are contributing to the hole

646
00:40:54,900 --> 00:41:00,630
that is proven. 14 years of no
agenda proves people really want

647
00:41:00,630 --> 00:41:03,990
to pay makes them feel good.
They want to pay something

648
00:41:03,990 --> 00:41:10,080
that's meaningful to them, which
can be numerology or just how

649
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:16,920
much money they can afford. And
this is, I think, how this fits

650
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:22,320
into bitcoin, I'm going to use
the term space is its inherent,

651
00:41:22,830 --> 00:41:28,470
this inherent to people who are
switched on to Bitcoin, to be

652
00:41:28,500 --> 00:41:33,330
philanthropic and be open and
the freedom they feel of owning

653
00:41:33,330 --> 00:41:36,570
and controlling their own money
and sending it like a text

654
00:41:36,570 --> 00:41:39,630
message. Because that's what it
is. It's like, wow, I just sent

655
00:41:39,630 --> 00:41:41,700
you a money, but it didn't go
through a whole bunch of other

656
00:41:41,700 --> 00:41:45,030
people. You know, I didn't have
to do a whole bunch of things.

657
00:41:45,060 --> 00:41:47,610
It's, it's, it's a very good
experience.

658
00:41:47,970 --> 00:41:51,300
Well, that I mean, going back to
that, that's about personal

659
00:41:51,300 --> 00:41:54,210
sovereignty and responsibility.
And if you are going to take

660
00:41:54,210 --> 00:41:58,500
that on, that means that you
can't be a spectator alone, you

661
00:41:58,500 --> 00:42:02,280
have to be the man in the arena,
you have to step in, and that

662
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,250
could be just streaming SAS as
you listen to a podcast, right?

663
00:42:05,430 --> 00:42:08,730
We're not asking anyone to go
into battle here. But it's you

664
00:42:08,730 --> 00:42:12,270
need to act. Yeah, things aren't
gonna, I mean, advertisers will

665
00:42:12,270 --> 00:42:15,330
let you consume passively. Sure.
That's one model you can exist

666
00:42:15,330 --> 00:42:17,790
in. But I think that in the back
of people's mind, it doesn't

667
00:42:17,790 --> 00:42:21,840
feel right. And I think that
once you start to see something

668
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:25,890
new, and you start to feel that
it feels different, and that's

669
00:42:25,890 --> 00:42:29,520
when I listen to, you know,
Marty's podcasts or your

670
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:34,740
podcast. Three things that I
said, Wow, I didn't predict that

671
00:42:34,740 --> 00:42:37,740
it would actually change the
listening experience. And I feel

672
00:42:37,740 --> 00:42:38,100
better.

673
00:42:38,190 --> 00:42:41,070
Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Yeah, it
totally does. I felt that when I

674
00:42:41,070 --> 00:42:44,520
first started using Sphinx, the
saints have as well, when we

675
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:48,120
talked about it on the show of
how very quickly I mean, within

676
00:42:48,150 --> 00:42:51,420
a couple of days, I started to
feel guilty if there was a show

677
00:42:51,420 --> 00:42:57,660
on Sphinx chat. That was that I
knew it was there. But I was

678
00:42:57,660 --> 00:43:01,560
listening in a different app. So
I would just flip back to that

679
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:05,430
switch back to Sphinx chat, and,
and start listening just purely

680
00:43:05,430 --> 00:43:09,240
so I could know, that I was
sending them value, no matter

681
00:43:09,240 --> 00:43:10,710
how small it was, you know,

682
00:43:10,770 --> 00:43:11,970
I love it. I love

683
00:43:11,970 --> 00:43:15,000
it. You know, and I only say
this, say this I on that whole

684
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:23,130
idea of free and free versus you
know, pay. I think we actually

685
00:43:23,130 --> 00:43:26,610
wrote a blog about this forever
ago, I think that we miss, I

686
00:43:26,610 --> 00:43:31,170
think that we may misunderstand
this, that issue that we I think

687
00:43:31,170 --> 00:43:34,740
we tend to mentally see it as a
spectrum, to where you have free

688
00:43:34,740 --> 00:43:39,000
on one side, and you have very
expensive on the other side. And

689
00:43:39,030 --> 00:43:44,280
we think of it like like a just
a long spectrum, single line.

690
00:43:44,430 --> 00:43:49,230
But I think I really think it's
more like a, like a circle. So

691
00:43:49,500 --> 00:43:53,100
where where the where the ends
of the spectrums bend around and

692
00:43:53,100 --> 00:43:56,370
begin to meet again at the
bottom, so that you have free,

693
00:43:56,370 --> 00:44:00,840
you know, free on the left and
priceless on the right. And

694
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:04,350
those things are actually closer
together, then you can go yes.

695
00:44:04,380 --> 00:44:07,500
And so like, what that and I
think that's where the social

696
00:44:07,500 --> 00:44:12,390
media and the freemium stuff, I
think they operate in that

697
00:44:12,390 --> 00:44:17,520
psychological space. Because if
they can give you a service for

698
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:22,050
free, you'll be willing to give
away things that are actually

699
00:44:22,050 --> 00:44:28,080
priceless. In order to use it.
Because the the the idea of free

700
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:30,510
and priceless are not opposite
ends of the spectrum. They're

701
00:44:30,510 --> 00:44:33,720
actually they're, they're hard
to discern the difference

702
00:44:33,720 --> 00:44:37,470
mentally, because there's not
really a cost you can put on

703
00:44:37,470 --> 00:44:42,390
either one of them is a thing,
that idea. Like if you actually

704
00:44:42,390 --> 00:44:45,600
split it out and take away free
and say that this does cost

705
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:49,500
something, it helps you to
actually place a value on it and

706
00:44:49,500 --> 00:44:55,140
say, Okay, this is what I'm not
willing to give up. These things

707
00:44:55,140 --> 00:44:58,560
in my life like my personal
information, like my contacts

708
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:02,460
list on a phone, if it's club
All these things that you're not

709
00:45:02,460 --> 00:45:06,900
willing to give away, when the
thing actually costs money, you

710
00:45:06,900 --> 00:45:10,860
may be willing to give it away
when it's free, because you just

711
00:45:11,190 --> 00:45:15,030
your mind had the human mind, I
think has a difficult time

712
00:45:15,330 --> 00:45:19,290
making sense out of something
that's free as far as how do you

713
00:45:19,290 --> 00:45:21,420
value that in relation to
something else?

714
00:45:23,219 --> 00:45:26,039
It's not just the law, the state
or the zero state, you know,

715
00:45:26,039 --> 00:45:29,039
yeah, David's microdosing stats,
I think, but no.

716
00:45:32,730 --> 00:45:33,750
I,

717
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:37,350
I see exactly what you mean. And
they do meet back, right. And

718
00:45:37,350 --> 00:45:40,410
I'm actually just picturing a
graphic, we should put that into

719
00:45:40,410 --> 00:45:44,790
a graphic, right? You do come
full circle back, when you get

720
00:45:44,820 --> 00:45:49,770
priceless and free our neighbors
not opposites, right. But I so

721
00:45:49,770 --> 00:45:52,890
but to me, that whole going back
to the whole thing of freedom to

722
00:45:52,890 --> 00:45:55,920
earn, right, that's, that
shouldn't be a human right. And

723
00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:00,960
it shouldn't be limited by the
place you were born necessarily,

724
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:03,390
right. I feel like that's going
to be an artifact, hopefully, of

725
00:46:03,390 --> 00:46:06,300
the future. Someone's got
something interesting to say in

726
00:46:06,300 --> 00:46:09,540
some random place that no one's
been to. And they're going to be

727
00:46:09,540 --> 00:46:13,320
able to collect an audience of
tons of people around the world

728
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:16,440
and make a living from that
because they're providing value.

729
00:46:17,310 --> 00:46:20,370
You can remove those friction
points, I think we all benefit

730
00:46:20,370 --> 00:46:24,150
from kind of adding their
contributions to the idea soup

731
00:46:24,150 --> 00:46:26,550
instead of getting the same ones
from the same people around us.

732
00:46:26,550 --> 00:46:32,160
So the borderless part, I think,
really is important. And I think

733
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:36,210
we'll end up with a more
interesting kind of exchange

734
00:46:36,210 --> 00:46:38,640
here, right? If it happens, this
is the whole importance of

735
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,940
decentralization. And this is
you guys turned us on to RSS

736
00:46:41,940 --> 00:46:45,030
like I didn't really pay
attention RSS since I think when

737
00:46:45,030 --> 00:46:47,790
it came out. We all look at it
and we're all hacking away on

738
00:46:47,790 --> 00:46:53,190
things but amazing that this
becomes the foundation for

739
00:46:53,220 --> 00:46:53,850
decent,

740
00:46:54,180 --> 00:46:59,370
decentralized AI. Hey, man,
decentralized RSS is such a

741
00:46:59,370 --> 00:47:04,200
beautiful thing. It's It's so
obvious why Google kills their

742
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:08,010
feed reader. You cannot you
cannot compete with it. It's

743
00:47:08,010 --> 00:47:09,180
just it's too good.

744
00:47:09,780 --> 00:47:10,410
In a dissent,

745
00:47:10,410 --> 00:47:12,990
someone pointed out to me
though, that did you know that?

746
00:47:13,020 --> 00:47:17,610
And I haven't played with it.
But medium and substack offer

747
00:47:17,610 --> 00:47:18,090
RSS

748
00:47:18,750 --> 00:47:24,330
is kind of interesting. appstack
is doing podcast now. Oh, yeah.

749
00:47:24,330 --> 00:47:26,070
They're on my list. I want they
need to

750
00:47:26,070 --> 00:47:30,060
have a frickin node. Kidding. He
could do we need this might be

751
00:47:30,060 --> 00:47:32,880
the next board meeting right
here. It is. It

752
00:47:32,879 --> 00:47:35,459
is a board meeting. Paul, we
take everything you say serious?

753
00:47:35,459 --> 00:47:35,909
And it's on the

754
00:47:35,910 --> 00:47:37,920
record. Yeah, you're an
honorary. So

755
00:47:42,300 --> 00:47:47,580
it's a I'm also gonna say, it's
pretty amazing that this like

756
00:47:47,580 --> 00:47:53,070
decades old or I don't know how
old RSS is, but seems like it's

757
00:47:53,070 --> 00:47:56,760
been around. Yeah, it's kind of
this perfect system that's

758
00:47:57,390 --> 00:48:00,930
already sort of been there for a
long time. And it's sort of

759
00:48:00,930 --> 00:48:04,320
creating this bastion of free
speech, like no matter what,

760
00:48:04,380 --> 00:48:07,950
you're not gonna be able to
necessarily take down a file.

761
00:48:08,010 --> 00:48:13,590
You can even email someone an
RSS file. The multi modality of

762
00:48:13,590 --> 00:48:17,700
it makes it so there's not
really any way to, you know,

763
00:48:17,730 --> 00:48:18,390
cancel it.

764
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,750
Evan, I have a couple of
questions for you specifically.

765
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:30,720
The first one is when can I on?
Like no agenda, say? Everybody

766
00:48:30,720 --> 00:48:36,270
needs to go get swings chat
right now. Because

767
00:48:36,270 --> 00:48:38,730
we live your world.

768
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:40,890
That's what I've been waiting
for. That's it. I've been

769
00:48:40,890 --> 00:48:45,510
waiting to be able to say that.
And, and I understand the issues

770
00:48:45,510 --> 00:48:48,690
of me saying that, because I
just don't know how, how does

771
00:48:48,690 --> 00:48:49,410
this scale?

772
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:53,850
Paul is gonna tell you today,
and I'll tell you next week.

773
00:48:56,490 --> 00:49:00,000
That's kind of how we've been
going. But But literally, next

774
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:04,110
week, this time, it's for real
next week. Oh, although Paul

775
00:49:04,110 --> 00:49:05,130
will say yeah,

776
00:49:05,190 --> 00:49:09,720
we just, I think literally right
before this episode started,

777
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:15,600
Evan pushed the multi tenant
version a relay out to GitHub,

778
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:20,820
so don't anyone go turn it on
right now? I'm not gonna need to

779
00:49:21,300 --> 00:49:23,550
use cowboys. I thought you were
Paul.

780
00:49:25,290 --> 00:49:26,070
Believe me.

781
00:49:28,199 --> 00:49:32,609
I'm suppressing that instinct as
much. So the the Umbro guys need

782
00:49:32,609 --> 00:49:35,909
time to update the release. They
don't have an ad hoc release

783
00:49:35,909 --> 00:49:39,149
system on the App Store yet that
they have. So they have these

784
00:49:39,149 --> 00:49:44,459
apps and we can as app, you
know, presence on on their

785
00:49:44,459 --> 00:49:47,549
dashboard. We don't have the
ability to push updates to the

786
00:49:47,549 --> 00:49:51,299
roads, which is probably smart
for them, right? Yeah, yeah. And

787
00:49:51,299 --> 00:49:54,689
so you just told them yesterday.
Hey, guys, we have a new version

788
00:49:54,689 --> 00:49:56,639
coming out. We need to do the
same, but with anyone else.

789
00:49:57,330 --> 00:49:59,580
How does that work? I mean, so
if a whole bunch of people go

790
00:49:59,580 --> 00:50:05,490
get this chat app. I mean, the
I'm just talking about listeners

791
00:50:05,490 --> 00:50:09,180
who want to support the show,
will they it's seamless to them

792
00:50:09,180 --> 00:50:12,150
about any upgrades you've done
all that stuff is it's all in

793
00:50:12,150 --> 00:50:15,540
the background. And they can
just go ahead and and I guess I

794
00:50:15,540 --> 00:50:18,330
would presume purchase their
node for a couple bucks and then

795
00:50:18,330 --> 00:50:19,110
get up and running.

796
00:50:20,009 --> 00:50:23,339
Yeah, we're gonna offer two
different types of nodes. One is

797
00:50:23,369 --> 00:50:27,329
meant for podcasters. And that's
we calling those dedicated. And

798
00:50:27,329 --> 00:50:30,959
that means you have a channel
and you are running the lnd

799
00:50:30,959 --> 00:50:34,529
software and relay software on a
virtual machine. Gotcha. And you

800
00:50:34,529 --> 00:50:37,229
can do that exactly, exactly
what you have now this will you

801
00:50:37,229 --> 00:50:40,169
have any Raspberry Pi Blitz in
general? So you have a channel,

802
00:50:40,169 --> 00:50:43,979
think of it as I have a channel,
because the channel is a Bitcoin

803
00:50:43,979 --> 00:50:49,799
transaction. Bitcoin has limited
real estate, you cannot create a

804
00:50:49,799 --> 00:50:53,789
million channels a day on the
Bitcoin blockchain even if you

805
00:50:53,789 --> 00:50:57,839
wanted to write. And so what the
virtual node does, where we're

806
00:50:57,839 --> 00:51:02,639
calling lighter virtual node, is
that you have the ability to be

807
00:51:02,789 --> 00:51:07,169
a participant on someone else's
node. So in Bitcoin, they call

808
00:51:07,169 --> 00:51:11,609
this the Uncle Jim model, where
someone you know, and somewhat

809
00:51:11,609 --> 00:51:16,379
trust is running a node and has
the channel and you are

810
00:51:16,379 --> 00:51:21,029
piggybacking off their system.
All your content is still

811
00:51:21,029 --> 00:51:25,409
private. You can still do
everything you want on the on

812
00:51:25,409 --> 00:51:28,979
the lightning network, but you
are running from somebody

813
00:51:28,979 --> 00:51:32,219
running on someone else's node
and sharing their channel which

814
00:51:32,219 --> 00:51:33,749
is communicating out. Gotcha.

815
00:51:33,780 --> 00:51:38,070
So that's how you scale it. Oh,
yeah. Okay. So I

816
00:51:40,230 --> 00:51:43,380
still end to end encrypted,
basically. So it's not like

817
00:51:43,410 --> 00:51:45,030
Uncle Jim can read your
messages,

818
00:51:45,510 --> 00:51:47,370
which is real creepy. And my
uncle.

819
00:51:50,340 --> 00:51:54,360
That was lm D. Is that where
that came from?

820
00:51:54,660 --> 00:51:59,190
It did good. Yeah, cuz lm d 12.
Has this HDFC interceptor.

821
00:52:00,090 --> 00:52:04,080
feature. And then, so now we're
able to create these private

822
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:08,790
channels. I'm just writing day
or may not be real. There's a

823
00:52:08,790 --> 00:52:10,200
lot of pieces to it.

824
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:15,060
Are you gonna drop that at
dinner? Just sound sound killer

825
00:52:15,060 --> 00:52:15,540
here.

826
00:52:15,690 --> 00:52:20,820
He should absolutely have a HPLC
interceptor t shirts made?

827
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:27,030
credit. I mean, credit goes to,
I believe the breeze guys, you

828
00:52:27,030 --> 00:52:31,470
guys are talking to worked with
lightning labs on the original

829
00:52:31,470 --> 00:52:35,160
thing. I may be getting the
history wrong. But that is just

830
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:39,150
a feature of the underlying
protocol that we're using to

831
00:52:39,150 --> 00:52:41,790
help people get on board. So
they

832
00:52:41,790 --> 00:52:44,580
only did that because they're
not a full on. Yeah,

833
00:52:44,580 --> 00:52:47,250
there's no one knows. Right?

834
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:50,460
Yeah, if you're running a node,
they run mobile nodes, I

835
00:52:50,460 --> 00:52:54,630
believe. But I'm not I'm not an
expert on it. But they run

836
00:52:54,630 --> 00:52:57,570
mobile nodes. And so sometimes
if your phone's off, the

837
00:52:57,570 --> 00:53:00,480
interceptor can capture the
payment on the way in, I

838
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:01,590
believe, the

839
00:53:02,130 --> 00:53:03,060
Watchtower.

840
00:53:03,570 --> 00:53:06,780
Kind of like that. Yeah, yeah,
it is a little bit like that.

841
00:53:06,780 --> 00:53:08,760
Maybe. So the Watchtower is more
like, hey, someone tried to

842
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:13,500
cheat me out of my channel. But
so what this so think about this

843
00:53:13,500 --> 00:53:16,440
model for a second, if we were
to go the most private version,

844
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:19,350
and then work our way back to
the hosted versions, but let's

845
00:53:19,350 --> 00:53:22,200
say you were the Raspberry Pi
Blitz, if you were running this

846
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:25,320
multi tenant version, you could
say to your no agenda listeners,

847
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:31,770
hey, sign up on my node as a
virtual node, they would provide

848
00:53:31,770 --> 00:53:34,830
Bitcoin they would or you know,
they would either buy it or send

849
00:53:34,830 --> 00:53:39,810
it. Now, what they would have is
a full on address, the app and

850
00:53:39,810 --> 00:53:42,540
everything. They'd be listening
to the podcast talking on tribes

851
00:53:42,540 --> 00:53:45,690
doing everything, but they
wouldn't have their own channel.

852
00:53:46,170 --> 00:53:48,570
They would be running off of
your

853
00:53:48,690 --> 00:53:52,470
right, and how many how many? Do
you have virtual nodes? Or you

854
00:53:52,470 --> 00:53:57,000
know, how many if I'm Uncle Jim,
how many kids can I have?

855
00:53:58,950 --> 00:54:02,130
Well, we haven't quite really
tested the limits, but 1000s and

856
00:54:02,130 --> 00:54:03,180
1000s. Oh, well,

857
00:54:03,180 --> 00:54:04,470
that'll be my job then.

858
00:54:04,500 --> 00:54:05,040
Hello.

859
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:07,800
test the limits. Now.

860
00:54:07,830 --> 00:54:09,090
Now, are you guys setting

861
00:54:09,300 --> 00:54:12,420
we'll have a love a bounty. If
you can break it will you'll win

862
00:54:12,420 --> 00:54:13,140
some reward a

863
00:54:13,890 --> 00:54:17,700
bad idea? Or a bad idea? Man,
I'm,

864
00:54:17,759 --> 00:54:18,539
I'm an expert.

865
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:19,890
I'm an expert at breakage.

866
00:54:20,550 --> 00:54:22,380
It'll be worth it. It'll be
worth it.

867
00:54:22,830 --> 00:54:26,340
That's very exciting. That is
that is super exciting. And now

868
00:54:26,340 --> 00:54:30,480
will this all be also be
available, like as an add on to

869
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:33,660
any of the voltage nodes or
anyone who wants to go more with

870
00:54:33,660 --> 00:54:35,010
a host hosted solution?

871
00:54:36,150 --> 00:54:38,310
We're talking to Graham, I mean,
I just painted with him

872
00:54:38,310 --> 00:54:43,050
yesterday. So anyone with a
voltage node can run one of

873
00:54:43,050 --> 00:54:45,180
these. They have a channel

874
00:54:45,210 --> 00:54:47,040
fucking love this community.

875
00:54:49,500 --> 00:54:54,720
Also, I mean, this is also why
it's so difficult to roll stuff

876
00:54:54,720 --> 00:54:56,940
out because there's all these
people with different app

877
00:54:56,940 --> 00:54:59,580
versions and different relay
versions, different lnd

878
00:54:59,580 --> 00:55:00,870
versions. Yeah,

879
00:55:00,870 --> 00:55:01,170
who's

880
00:55:01,170 --> 00:55:02,460
really on there? So

881
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:05,760
Oh, but Evan also different
different business models,

882
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:08,610
different philosophy, well does
a general philosophy. And

883
00:55:08,610 --> 00:55:11,910
that's, I think what pulls it
all together, I am constantly

884
00:55:11,910 --> 00:55:16,110
amazed, you know how, you know,
we're, we were looking for kind

885
00:55:16,110 --> 00:55:21,030
of a semi hosted solution and
bumped into Tim over at ln PE.

886
00:55:21,270 --> 00:55:25,170
And he's like, Sure, I'll throw
some API together. And everyone

887
00:55:25,170 --> 00:55:29,040
just kind of puts it all in
there and SATs start flowing.

888
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:31,740
And everyone says, Okay, I'm
getting some SATs here from

889
00:55:31,980 --> 00:55:36,210
either a split or routing fee,
and everyone sees where they can

890
00:55:37,020 --> 00:55:39,360
benefit from it and, and grow.

891
00:55:39,390 --> 00:55:40,800
It's just, it's,

892
00:55:41,070 --> 00:55:43,680
it's so and I don't know how old
you are, Evan, but it's so

893
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:48,300
analogous to the early days, I'm
talking yo 90. For me, it was

894
00:55:48,300 --> 00:55:53,460
like 9394, when the web just you
know, the NCSA mosaic browser

895
00:55:53,490 --> 00:55:56,040
browser just came along, but how
people were all kind of working

896
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:59,790
together, even with with peering
agreements at the network level.

897
00:55:59,790 --> 00:56:02,010
I mean, it's so analogous to
that.

898
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:04,590
Yeah, I was a baby at the time.
So

899
00:56:06,390 --> 00:56:10,770
if Did you see marnix posted
that that like layout that

900
00:56:10,770 --> 00:56:14,190
showed all the node
interconnects on the mastodon,

901
00:56:14,850 --> 00:56:18,660
it, it's just basically he just
boiled all the he took all the

902
00:56:18,660 --> 00:56:22,230
podcast or nodes that are listed
he, he's my he's constantly

903
00:56:22,230 --> 00:56:27,480
monitoring the podcast index to
see who has value blocks, and

904
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:31,140
where the nodes in what node
keys, they are good. So then he

905
00:56:31,140 --> 00:56:35,700
does analysis on that. So he put
together this map that shows all

906
00:56:35,700 --> 00:56:39,810
the interconnections between all
the nodes. And it's, it's cool,

907
00:56:39,810 --> 00:56:43,620
man, it's like a complete like
podcast. It's like a podcast

908
00:56:43,620 --> 00:56:46,230
routing network within lightning
itself.

909
00:56:46,259 --> 00:56:50,399
Yeah, yeah. It's cool. And you
know, I'd like channels to your

910
00:56:50,579 --> 00:56:53,069
to your routing node, I think
you got a routing node and

911
00:56:53,069 --> 00:56:55,649
voltage. So I've opened a
channel there. And everyone's

912
00:56:56,069 --> 00:56:58,589
opening channels is really quite
interesting.

913
00:56:59,670 --> 00:57:04,710
So the the ideal state here
would be that podcaster, sets up

914
00:57:04,710 --> 00:57:08,220
node, get voltage home, whatever
the in the beginning, we're

915
00:57:08,220 --> 00:57:11,760
running this to make sure we can
work out the kinks. They could.

916
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:17,010
So they could start a node,
bring on these light node users

917
00:57:17,010 --> 00:57:19,560
who will probably be their
listeners, but don't necessarily

918
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:22,650
have to be someone could join
the no agenda node. And then

919
00:57:22,650 --> 00:57:25,290
listen to Tales from the Crypt.
Yeah, of course, of course, just

920
00:57:25,470 --> 00:57:30,540
like a normal user. And then
what you could do is, so now

921
00:57:30,540 --> 00:57:33,720
you're running all of these
users. And then they want to

922
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:36,960
decide to run their own node,
they have a real lightning pub

923
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:41,070
key and can leave, they can
leave their own up, right,

924
00:57:41,100 --> 00:57:44,730
right. Yep. And then they can
get their own channel, which is

925
00:57:44,730 --> 00:57:47,730
great. And we've always wanted
that portability. So if someone

926
00:57:47,730 --> 00:57:51,240
has a hosted node and wants to
go to a home node they can

927
00:57:51,390 --> 00:57:54,540
write. And then this also allows
you to do some neat stuff with

928
00:57:54,540 --> 00:57:57,510
forwarding and stuff like that,
too. So if you have one of these

929
00:57:57,510 --> 00:58:00,570
virtual nodes, you can actually
just forward it to another node.

930
00:58:00,750 --> 00:58:04,500
Oh, my God, I'm interesting. No
way. Now you can sign up for

931
00:58:04,530 --> 00:58:07,380
something using a completely
different pub key that no one

932
00:58:07,380 --> 00:58:11,220
knows that's your normal pub key
and supporting trick, it gets to

933
00:58:11,220 --> 00:58:17,250
be all kinds of fun things here.
And so that I think is so that

934
00:58:17,250 --> 00:58:21,450
will remove this whole issue of
Can I get one of these nodes?

935
00:58:21,450 --> 00:58:24,150
And can I get an invite, which
we're not trying to be exclusive

936
00:58:24,150 --> 00:58:26,550
about this? We're literally
running a server and doing a

937
00:58:26,550 --> 00:58:29,370
Bitcoin transaction for every
single user on this network

938
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:35,790
right now, right? So this way,
it can bring people on. They are

939
00:58:35,790 --> 00:58:38,070
dependent on that note, they
could kick you off, they could

940
00:58:38,070 --> 00:58:41,010
go down at your your unroll or
your Raspberry Pi Blitz, Adam

941
00:58:41,010 --> 00:58:43,350
could go down and all your
friends are yelling at you

942
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:47,160
again, right. So it's not you
know, it's like the early days

943
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:50,970
of isbs when it was in closets
and apartments, right, and a

944
00:58:50,970 --> 00:58:52,470
bunch of modems.

945
00:58:53,580 --> 00:58:57,960
Believe me, I run a mastodon
server with 10,000 users. And I

946
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:00,060
know what happens when it goes
down.

947
00:59:01,500 --> 00:59:02,460
Emails fun,

948
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:05,130
not fun. It's not fun.

949
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:07,500
Wow. So I wanted that.

950
00:59:07,530 --> 00:59:10,230
So that if you if you think
about the friction wages weren't

951
00:59:10,230 --> 00:59:12,840
real quick, I want to make sure
that we talked about some of the

952
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:14,880
main friction points about
running loose ends because this

953
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:18,510
is a message to the podcasters
thinking about doing this is

954
00:59:18,510 --> 00:59:22,170
that now you have a place to
interact. podcasting has not had

955
00:59:22,170 --> 00:59:25,350
community very well. Right. So
now you can interact with people

956
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:28,440
who are self selecting to be
your most loyal listeners

957
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:31,200
because they want to contribute
value for what you're providing.

958
00:59:31,560 --> 00:59:32,070
Right.

959
00:59:32,820 --> 00:59:35,880
Now, Adam, you run into this,
you're going to get SAS, it's

960
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:39,450
going to pile up with the
lightning network. If all of the

961
00:59:39,450 --> 00:59:43,170
stats are on your side of the
channel channels boards, you got

962
00:59:43,170 --> 00:59:47,430
to rebalance. Yeah, you have a
clog in the pipe. Right. And so

963
00:59:47,460 --> 00:59:49,980
with lightning labs and the
tools that they're coming out

964
00:59:49,980 --> 00:59:53,250
with, they have these new things
of auto loop out so

965
00:59:54,989 --> 00:59:57,329
oh my god, so smart. Cool.

966
00:59:57,360 --> 01:00:02,760
So if you have this kind of I
guess, first class problem of

967
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:06,780
having too many fats, you can
set it and say, Hey, if I hit

968
01:00:06,780 --> 01:00:10,380
this percentage on my side of
the channel, rebounded, I would

969
01:00:10,380 --> 01:00:14,100
like Bitcoin to be sent on chain
to this backup address, and then

970
01:00:14,100 --> 01:00:15,300
you can send it to that address.

971
01:00:15,330 --> 01:00:18,720
Yeah, because that function used
to be done by a guy named Paul

972
01:00:18,750 --> 01:00:22,710
E. Toi. Who I would then email
and say, my channels works like

973
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:24,540
liquidity, Brahma.

974
01:00:25,770 --> 01:00:27,690
And then I'd be in my car with a
laptop.

975
01:00:30,719 --> 01:00:34,979
I think we got like nine, like,
like, 10 channels to Marty's

976
01:00:34,979 --> 01:00:38,099
node because oh, keep catching
up on that side.

977
01:00:38,100 --> 01:00:41,070
So yeah, Marty's on fire, man.
He's on fire.

978
01:00:41,610 --> 01:00:44,940
And so that and so the channel
issues the second thing. So

979
01:00:44,940 --> 01:00:48,720
another thing that's coming out
is, what's already out is pool.

980
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:53,070
So yeah, if you're, if you're a
podcaster, and you don't want to

981
01:00:53,370 --> 01:00:57,270
lock up you to open a big
lightning channel that requires

982
01:00:57,270 --> 01:01:00,510
a Bitcoin, I think if it is it's
escrowed, in this account,

983
01:01:00,930 --> 01:01:06,150
between you and the other node.
So if you don't want to put

984
01:01:06,510 --> 01:01:11,130
$5,000 worth of Bitcoin in a hot
wallet on a node between you and

985
01:01:11,130 --> 01:01:13,950
someone else, you can rent and
you can actually pay someone

986
01:01:13,950 --> 01:01:18,090
right now, whatever it is where
I've seen aprs of three to 10%.

987
01:01:18,090 --> 01:01:20,430
Let's say it's caught five, I
feel like is a great number to

988
01:01:20,430 --> 01:01:26,100
get to. You can rent someone
else's Bitcoin for 5%. So you

989
01:01:26,100 --> 01:01:30,270
could be paying $30 a month for
your get voltage node $20 a

990
01:01:30,270 --> 01:01:34,140
month your channel. And you
could be hosting 1000s of light

991
01:01:34,140 --> 01:01:37,680
nodes. Who are your listeners?
Yep. And that 50 bucks is

992
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:41,070
nothing right. It's just a it's
part of the cost of doing

993
01:01:41,070 --> 01:01:42,420
business. Interesting. I

994
01:01:42,420 --> 01:01:48,210
in order to proceed, I have to
ask in pool that have been there

995
01:01:48,210 --> 01:01:54,630
for six weeks. And it's I don't
know why I just I can't get my I

996
01:01:54,630 --> 01:01:57,870
can't get my my offers to be
taken up by anybody. I'm going

997
01:01:57,870 --> 01:02:03,630
to come on man. This is I got
low, low low APR Come on. Yeah,

998
01:02:03,660 --> 01:02:06,900
practically given the channel
away. That still had that

999
01:02:06,900 --> 01:02:08,700
marketplace to last to heat up a
bit.

1000
01:02:09,870 --> 01:02:11,520
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's coming.

1001
01:02:11,850 --> 01:02:14,370
The interface is very
complicated still. So

1002
01:02:15,449 --> 01:02:18,989
yeah, boy, and they're making
huge improvements on that front.

1003
01:02:19,019 --> 01:02:22,709
But I think that demand here
could come from podcasters.

1004
01:02:22,709 --> 01:02:29,759
Again, no, podcaster deciding,
right. And then the savvy and

1005
01:02:29,759 --> 01:02:33,779
then getting those channels, and
then having this flow of value

1006
01:02:33,779 --> 01:02:37,379
coming through. Then they
discover other podcasts. Now

1007
01:02:37,379 --> 01:02:39,539
they're, you know, they might be
on the no agenda node, but

1008
01:02:39,539 --> 01:02:42,239
they're listening to 10
podcasts. And they're streaming

1009
01:02:42,239 --> 01:02:44,369
SATs can be a great system.

1010
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:49,650
And can you as Uncle Jim, do you
tell you also take advantage of

1011
01:02:49,650 --> 01:02:51,870
the network fees that are sent
through these nodes?

1012
01:02:52,949 --> 01:02:55,559
You can set them to whatever you
want, but it'll probably be

1013
01:02:55,559 --> 01:02:59,759
competitive, right? I'm
skeptical that lightning routing

1014
01:02:59,759 --> 01:03:04,349
fees, at least in the short term
will add up to a whole lot. But

1015
01:03:05,189 --> 01:03:09,389
you never know. Right? I mean, I
think there will be competition

1016
01:03:09,389 --> 01:03:10,649
for routing fees.

1017
01:03:11,430 --> 01:03:13,290
There has to be a market, right?

1018
01:03:13,530 --> 01:03:17,820
Yeah. Like I think that the what
you'll pay to rent Bitcoin for

1019
01:03:17,820 --> 01:03:21,030
channels will also go down over
time. Competition,

1020
01:03:22,380 --> 01:03:27,690
which will consolidate? Yeah.
Evan Hammond, much of that lnd

1021
01:03:27,750 --> 01:03:30,690
development? Are you responsible
for you? Are you doing pull

1022
01:03:30,690 --> 01:03:33,240
requests directly on the l&d
code base at all?

1023
01:03:33,990 --> 01:03:37,380
No, we are just using it
basically. I mean, there's so

1024
01:03:37,380 --> 01:03:41,940
many other things to build on
our side. But we do talk to them

1025
01:03:42,210 --> 01:03:46,020
pretty often and just hear
what's coming. And they can get

1026
01:03:46,020 --> 01:03:47,100
feedback from us.

1027
01:03:47,790 --> 01:03:52,650
Which roast beef. And Ryan, you
helped suggest the multi tenant

1028
01:03:52,650 --> 01:03:55,650
solution which we had been
hemming and hawing about for a

1029
01:03:55,650 --> 01:03:59,670
while, but they just put the
pieces together in such a nice

1030
01:03:59,670 --> 01:04:04,950
way that beautiful what was it
six weeks ago or something maybe

1031
01:04:04,950 --> 01:04:06,750
eight weeks ago that we have
this?

1032
01:04:06,780 --> 01:04:09,780
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's
there's, there's plenty of

1033
01:04:10,170 --> 01:04:13,620
sorry, interrupted. There's
plenty of systems that

1034
01:04:13,620 --> 01:04:18,960
basically, you know, send the
user ID in the TLV of a

1035
01:04:19,650 --> 01:04:23,970
lightning transaction. Like
that. I mean, there's a bunch of

1036
01:04:23,970 --> 01:04:27,150
other projects out there that do
that, but every transaction is

1037
01:04:27,150 --> 01:04:31,680
still going to the same pub key.
Right? So what we really wanted

1038
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:36,330
is the ability to, to start in
multi tenant mode and move off.

1039
01:04:36,810 --> 01:04:40,380
Right? So we're really basically
it's based on the routing hand

1040
01:04:40,380 --> 01:04:44,580
and the Private Channel concept.
So you have a real, you have a

1041
01:04:44,580 --> 01:04:48,690
real key pair from the
beginning. So you can move off

1042
01:04:48,690 --> 01:04:51,450
at any time and there's not any.
I mean, you don't have to tell

1043
01:04:51,450 --> 01:04:54,090
all your friends, okay, my pump
keeps changing, or whatever, you

1044
01:04:54,090 --> 01:04:54,840
can just take that

1045
01:04:54,870 --> 01:04:58,140
perfect, but you could be kicked
off right so we want to make

1046
01:04:58,140 --> 01:05:01,530
sure everyone knows this is not
But most sovereign way to do it

1047
01:05:01,530 --> 01:05:04,230
right? Doing it from your house
or doing it on your own is

1048
01:05:04,230 --> 01:05:08,280
always going to be better. So,
but not everyone's ready to go

1049
01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:11,730
spend 200 bucks on hardware, put
it together and wrecked do all

1050
01:05:11,730 --> 01:05:15,870
that deal with just. And then if
you get a taste of it, then you

1051
01:05:15,870 --> 01:05:16,440
can move on.

1052
01:05:16,710 --> 01:05:19,050
Paul, I want to be sensitive
your time do you have to go?

1053
01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:20,460
Because I have a couple more
questions for me.

1054
01:05:20,460 --> 01:05:25,620
I just got a phone call. So I'm
I've got five more minutes. But

1055
01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:30,090
I wanted to ask Evan, because we
have an entire namespace with a

1056
01:05:30,090 --> 01:05:34,260
whole bunch of features. I know
you guys are busy. Do you see

1057
01:05:34,260 --> 01:05:37,620
those being integrated anytime
soon into the podcast part of

1058
01:05:37,650 --> 01:05:40,200
Sphinx chat? Oh, yes, we

1059
01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:43,200
are. We're getting back to the
podcast stuff here. We basically

1060
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:47,970
heads down on this route
enhanced admin and multi tenant

1061
01:05:47,970 --> 01:05:52,740
stuff. But I mean, just to go
back to like, the whole multi

1062
01:05:52,740 --> 01:05:58,110
modal thing that is the Bitcoin
ecosystem. I love to see that

1063
01:05:58,110 --> 01:06:00,750
there's other apps, you know,
like breeze, integrating

1064
01:06:00,750 --> 01:06:06,360
podcasts, and doing similar
things. And I think, I mean,

1065
01:06:06,360 --> 01:06:09,210
we've always talked about Sphinx
sort of being like, the Pro

1066
01:06:09,210 --> 01:06:13,680
Tools for this for the
podcasters themselves, right? So

1067
01:06:13,710 --> 01:06:18,060
yeah, we're definitely gonna
build in actually hosting your

1068
01:06:18,120 --> 01:06:22,170
podcast files on on the meme
server. Oh, whoa,

1069
01:06:22,170 --> 01:06:27,750
whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,
whoa, stop young man. Do tell

1070
01:06:27,780 --> 01:06:29,490
what this is interesting.

1071
01:06:30,510 --> 01:06:33,690
I mean, we want to make it
completely basically self

1072
01:06:33,690 --> 01:06:36,780
sovereign that way, wow, it's
great that you can link out to

1073
01:06:36,780 --> 01:06:43,470
these other systems. But what
would be even better is hosting

1074
01:06:43,470 --> 01:06:47,550
your files yourself on your
Sphinx node, and actually

1075
01:06:47,550 --> 01:06:54,840
authenticating the access to
those files, using using keys

1076
01:06:54,840 --> 01:06:58,980
that would be sent as lightning
transactions. So we already do

1077
01:06:58,980 --> 01:07:03,330
that for means like, if you buy
an image on Sphinx, that's a

1078
01:07:03,330 --> 01:07:07,380
file, but you can't decrypt it
until you have the key for it

1079
01:07:07,380 --> 01:07:07,950
basically, is

1080
01:07:07,950 --> 01:07:09,480
that l set how you do that?

1081
01:07:11,370 --> 01:07:15,480
Is not we started to build our
own thing and called the L that

1082
01:07:19,230 --> 01:07:22,350
I can see that B, I could see
that being an immediate solution

1083
01:07:22,350 --> 01:07:25,980
for true private member only
feeds Yeah,

1084
01:07:26,070 --> 01:07:27,390
goodbye, Patreon.

1085
01:07:28,050 --> 01:07:29,160
Yeah, right. Exactly. Right.

1086
01:07:30,210 --> 01:07:33,720
Wow, very, and then being able
to see all the stats, you know,

1087
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:36,180
who's listening or not even
who's listening, but like, when

1088
01:07:36,180 --> 01:07:39,390
are people listening? When are
we Yeah, this is this is a

1089
01:07:39,810 --> 01:07:42,660
podcasters don't even know
what's going to hit him. And it

1090
01:07:42,660 --> 01:07:45,270
doesn't even exclude
advertisers. Actually, it makes

1091
01:07:45,270 --> 01:07:48,930
it much better if you want to
provide statistics for for what

1092
01:07:48,930 --> 01:07:51,690
you're doing. And we'll have,
you know, listening statistics,

1093
01:07:51,690 --> 01:07:56,490
which is just a complete upgrade
from any other interactive

1094
01:07:56,490 --> 01:07:59,760
agency bureau certification
mumbo jumbo, this is going to be

1095
01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:03,930
the real deal is great. And so
now, of course, as someone

1096
01:08:03,930 --> 01:08:07,980
hosting files on their own node,
you know, that brings a whole I

1097
01:08:07,980 --> 01:08:11,640
mean, hosting of podcast brings
all bunch of shit along with it.

1098
01:08:12,750 --> 01:08:15,150
Which will be interesting to see
how that scales for people who

1099
01:08:15,150 --> 01:08:16,650
are doing that all self hosted.

1100
01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:21,510
Right, but you can also, for
example, use our meme server

1101
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:25,740
node. And when pay for it, we
don't we don't charge anything

1102
01:08:25,740 --> 01:08:31,290
for it now, but we could charge
a millionth of a cent. And so

1103
01:08:31,290 --> 01:08:33,720
it's like, you know, the
infrastructure can be

1104
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:37,890
centralized. But the the
incentives are decentralized,

1105
01:08:37,920 --> 01:08:40,800
because you're just paying a
millionth of a standard to

1106
01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:45,630
access this file. I mean, it can
all just sort of be more fair.

1107
01:08:45,660 --> 01:08:49,050
You just got you just got the
attention of several guys. I

1108
01:08:49,050 --> 01:08:49,410
know.

1109
01:08:50,460 --> 01:08:55,380
Nice. Well, yeah. You know what?
I listened to your guyses last

1110
01:08:55,380 --> 01:09:00,270
week, episode last night. Yeah.
And I liked what you're saying

1111
01:09:00,270 --> 01:09:06,240
about. I mean, I, I always sort
of hated advertising. But it was

1112
01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:08,850
an interesting part where you're
saying, you know, advertising

1113
01:09:08,880 --> 01:09:13,320
isn't really the problem. Like
it's not necessarily the worst

1114
01:09:13,320 --> 01:09:16,470
thing in the world to put out
there. Like, hey, I've got this

1115
01:09:16,470 --> 01:09:19,710
cool thing. Check it out to my
to your friends and show. Sure.

1116
01:09:19,770 --> 01:09:22,290
The negative part is the machine
that's behind it. Right. The

1117
01:09:22,290 --> 01:09:28,290
algos? Yes, that are profit
driven. Yeah. So by creating

1118
01:09:28,320 --> 01:09:33,540
basically balanced incentives,
we don't need these algorithms.

1119
01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:35,130
Right. Exactly.

1120
01:09:35,220 --> 01:09:39,600
Exactly. Holy crap. That's big.
That's very, very big. And I

1121
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:44,160
think the the part that, that
really hits home is the idea of

1122
01:09:44,910 --> 01:09:48,870
quickly authenticated access
based upon a payment. You know,

1123
01:09:48,870 --> 01:09:54,750
certainly for private feeds. It
can negate the whole but negate

1124
01:09:54,750 --> 01:09:57,900
its you just blow up. The
Patreon model is just exploded.

1125
01:09:57,900 --> 01:10:02,580
It's gone. It's gone. Yep. And
people who are willing to

1126
01:10:02,580 --> 01:10:05,280
credit card number and you know
why you have your email in there

1127
01:10:05,280 --> 01:10:08,430
at all? Right? You don't even
need to know necessarily who

1128
01:10:08,430 --> 01:10:11,190
these people are, you know, the
1000 people are enjoying your

1129
01:10:11,190 --> 01:10:12,300
podcast. That's great.

1130
01:10:12,480 --> 01:10:15,360
Yeah, the way I've always looked
at the value for value model is

1131
01:10:15,360 --> 01:10:18,210
can I pay my rent this month?
Okay, I've got enough listeners.

1132
01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:21,900
That's what it is. It literally
comes down to that, Paul, if you

1133
01:10:21,900 --> 01:10:24,180
want any parting words, because
I know it's your son's birthday.

1134
01:10:24,180 --> 01:10:24,570
So I want to

1135
01:10:24,570 --> 01:10:28,920
let you go, No, I think you're
in good hands. So just

1136
01:10:28,920 --> 01:10:32,730
appreciate the work you guys are
doing and open it up to any

1137
01:10:32,730 --> 01:10:35,670
podcasters who want to do this.
But we're going to we're going

1138
01:10:35,670 --> 01:10:40,020
to literally when we pushed it
today, we'll have the podcast or

1139
01:10:40,020 --> 01:10:44,130
wallet integration that Dave
did. And we have it down, we

1140
01:10:44,130 --> 01:10:49,080
timed it to about 40 seconds. So
it grabs your podcast, index ID

1141
01:10:49,080 --> 01:10:52,890
number. And we can do this with
you, we can give you an invite

1142
01:10:52,890 --> 01:10:56,040
with that ID number. And it
takes about 40 seconds, you

1143
01:10:56,040 --> 01:10:58,530
download the app from the App
Store, we're out on the app

1144
01:10:58,530 --> 01:11:04,080
store right now Google Play, or
the APK. Yes, and, and then you

1145
01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:08,790
you scan that specific invite
code. And then while you're

1146
01:11:08,790 --> 01:11:11,850
entering your name and setting
up things chat, it actually

1147
01:11:11,850 --> 01:11:15,900
creates the tribe with the
artwork, the name, the RSS feed,

1148
01:11:15,900 --> 01:11:19,320
everything pulling from podcast
index. And then by the time you

1149
01:11:19,320 --> 01:11:23,610
open the dashboard, your tribe
that you own for your podcast is

1150
01:11:23,610 --> 01:11:27,090
set up and waiting for you in
your dashboard. When you open

1151
01:11:27,090 --> 01:11:31,680
the app and you're ready to go
day then with the virtual nodes,

1152
01:11:31,680 --> 01:11:36,660
we can likewise you can scan a
QR code that will your listeners

1153
01:11:36,660 --> 01:11:40,860
will auto join your tribe. And
so you when they open the app,

1154
01:11:40,890 --> 01:11:43,830
they are in the tribe that they
intended to be in in the first

1155
01:11:43,830 --> 01:11:46,770
place just to listen to your
podcast, beautiful dance. So

1156
01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:47,040
just

1157
01:11:47,340 --> 01:11:48,900
take the friction points out.
Dave, is

1158
01:11:48,900 --> 01:11:51,000
this working in the end from
podcaster? wallet?

1159
01:11:51,780 --> 01:11:54,360
Yeah, yeah, I mean, this, this
is basically just the thing that

1160
01:11:54,360 --> 01:11:57,300
we you know, this is the same
thing we set up what a while

1161
01:11:57,300 --> 01:12:00,540
back, it just works. Yeah. But
now the

1162
01:12:00,540 --> 01:12:04,650
different nodes, we can, we can
now say hey, with every

1163
01:12:04,650 --> 01:12:10,710
podcaster, who sets up we will
give you 20 invites day one. So

1164
01:12:10,710 --> 01:12:15,990
invite your 20 closest people.
And then we can even give

1165
01:12:15,990 --> 01:12:19,200
invites every day, every week,
people can give them away on

1166
01:12:19,200 --> 01:12:22,680
their podcast or on Twitter.
It's not spinning up a note on

1167
01:12:22,680 --> 01:12:23,610
the channel every time.

1168
01:12:23,760 --> 01:12:27,810
Alright, so when I download the
apk, after the show today, I can

1169
01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:31,320
publish a QR code that people
can scan with the app from the

1170
01:12:31,320 --> 01:12:32,460
new app from the App Store.

1171
01:12:33,300 --> 01:12:36,270
Because you haven't I just
described the new podcaster

1172
01:12:36,330 --> 01:12:40,890
experience that you you already
have. So you'll get legacy

1173
01:12:40,890 --> 01:12:44,130
deals, you'll get a QR code, you
don't get to do that fun setup

1174
01:12:44,130 --> 01:12:49,830
process to tribe, but you can
get will give you a QR code

1175
01:12:49,830 --> 01:12:52,260
that's specific to your tribe.
And I find people

1176
01:12:52,770 --> 01:12:56,130
in the new app. That's it. Well,
that's

1177
01:12:56,190 --> 01:12:59,130
Yeah, that part's been there.
What's been the tough part is

1178
01:12:59,610 --> 01:13:02,610
how do you give everybody knows
that wants to node right? So

1179
01:13:02,610 --> 01:13:04,860
yeah, so good to have that
problem finally solved.

1180
01:13:06,120 --> 01:13:07,410
for y'all, too. Yeah,

1181
01:13:07,470 --> 01:13:10,290
yeah. And it's about three hours
old. So take that with a grain

1182
01:13:10,290 --> 01:13:13,890
of salt. There will be pain.
There will be pain, though,

1183
01:13:13,890 --> 01:13:14,280
Paul,

1184
01:13:14,940 --> 01:13:18,270
Dave and I feel a little bit
responsible for this necessary

1185
01:13:18,300 --> 01:13:21,570
upgrade. But we feel that we did
come in and break you a little

1186
01:13:21,570 --> 01:13:26,580
bit just with the with well
really flowing channels.

1187
01:13:27,450 --> 01:13:29,010
But I want to build on.

1188
01:13:30,720 --> 01:13:34,950
You know, I've offered several
times. I want to thank you

1189
01:13:34,950 --> 01:13:39,660
personally, because you've been
such a motivating powerful force

1190
01:13:39,660 --> 01:13:43,410
in this entire value for value
model, you have given me

1191
01:13:43,410 --> 01:13:47,610
incredible insight. And Dave's
well of course, your philosophy,

1192
01:13:47,640 --> 01:13:50,760
everything about you, which
carries through the organization

1193
01:13:50,760 --> 01:13:54,780
has just been fucking
delightful. It's it's amazing to

1194
01:13:54,780 --> 01:14:01,200
work with another organization.
without, you know, without any

1195
01:14:01,920 --> 01:14:05,310
true business relationship.
We've signed no contracts, you

1196
01:14:05,310 --> 01:14:08,610
know, we're all kind of on the
same page. It's inherent to

1197
01:14:08,610 --> 01:14:12,360
Bitcoin that that's not
necessarily needed anymore, but

1198
01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:15,930
just really, man, you have a
vision and I congratulate you on

1199
01:14:15,930 --> 01:14:18,960
everything you've gotten done so
far. And I look forward to

1200
01:14:19,590 --> 01:14:22,680
working with you and the entire
team there for a long time on

1201
01:14:22,680 --> 01:14:23,070
this.

1202
01:14:24,540 --> 01:14:28,440
Thanks so much. It really does
mean a ton and is you know, as

1203
01:14:28,440 --> 01:14:33,870
well as I do with Evan and the
team behind you. Just appreciate

1204
01:14:33,870 --> 01:14:36,990
these guys for what they do. I
mean, it's it's amazing. stop

1205
01:14:37,200 --> 01:14:39,960
believing and we're gonna blow
people away with stuff to come.

1206
01:14:39,990 --> 01:14:40,560
Yeah, we're

1207
01:14:40,560 --> 01:14:44,280
going to really suck up to Evan
once you're gone, so don't worry

1208
01:14:44,280 --> 01:14:44,460
about

1209
01:14:46,050 --> 01:14:49,260
Excellent. Well, just tell me
what you guys decide to do.

1210
01:14:51,030 --> 01:14:52,410
Alright, well, happy birthday.

1211
01:14:52,680 --> 01:14:53,700
Your Sunday. All right, man.

1212
01:14:53,730 --> 01:14:55,410
Thank you. Bye Bye. Thanks. Bye,
Paul.

1213
01:14:56,250 --> 01:14:59,520
Evan, question for you just
because I can't can't help not

1214
01:14:59,520 --> 01:15:03,630
asking you As I grew up in the
Netherlands and although it

1215
01:15:03,630 --> 01:15:08,850
would be spelled with a V
feenstra is that from those

1216
01:15:08,850 --> 01:15:09,690
parts of the woods?

1217
01:15:09,780 --> 01:15:15,690
Yeah, it's freezin. So, free
Islam Baba. Exactly. I wish I

1218
01:15:15,690 --> 01:15:21,480
knew any Dutch, but my grandma
does speak free priests. And my

1219
01:15:21,480 --> 01:15:24,240
dad speaks Dutch she kind of has
an accent.

1220
01:15:24,690 --> 01:15:29,310
Oh, okay. But you were born in
the US? Yes. All right.

1221
01:15:29,370 --> 01:15:32,760
Interesting. Yeah, saints that
is normally it's vive and

1222
01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:37,560
Friesian is almost like Welsh,
it's a it's a dilates like Welsh

1223
01:15:37,560 --> 01:15:40,380
and Friesian. I think they can
understand each other. It's

1224
01:15:40,380 --> 01:15:43,080
like, it's like the sect of
people that have thought these

1225
01:15:43,080 --> 01:15:46,170
little spots in the world where
they have their own cool little

1226
01:15:46,170 --> 01:15:46,800
language.

1227
01:15:47,370 --> 01:15:50,370
Answer got a super interesting
history. They like they never

1228
01:15:50,370 --> 01:15:54,120
had a feudal type system. Yes.
Right. With lords and serfs and

1229
01:15:54,120 --> 01:15:56,250
stuff. They all just got
together. Yep.

1230
01:15:57,060 --> 01:16:00,210
So you're free is your freedom
of association here a bit a bit

1231
01:16:00,210 --> 01:16:00,960
corny pointer?

1232
01:16:02,370 --> 01:16:07,140
Exactly, exactly as a lot of the
same, you know, philosophy, like

1233
01:16:07,140 --> 01:16:10,650
just come together when we need
to. But other than that, we're

1234
01:16:10,650 --> 01:16:17,040
all individuals and kind of like
the family. Very cool unit is

1235
01:16:17,040 --> 01:16:18,450
the core of the culture. So

1236
01:16:18,870 --> 01:16:23,010
how did you come to think so? I
mean, I guess that's not the

1237
01:16:23,010 --> 01:16:26,700
question want to ask, I guess
the question want to ask is, how

1238
01:16:26,700 --> 01:16:30,720
do you how did you get into the
development position? You are

1239
01:16:30,720 --> 01:16:34,980
like, what, what is your
development timeline look like?

1240
01:16:36,270 --> 01:16:41,700
Well, it's the long and
circuitous. I had to tell you

1241
01:16:41,700 --> 01:16:45,780
the truth, I sort of grew up
something of a Luddite. I mean,

1242
01:16:45,780 --> 01:16:49,740
I was like the last of my
friends to get a smartphone. And

1243
01:16:50,550 --> 01:16:54,360
I only signed up for Twitter
last year, like, I have never

1244
01:16:54,360 --> 01:17:01,560
really been a big Facebook user.
But when was it was 2010, I

1245
01:17:01,560 --> 01:17:06,480
decided to travel a bunch and I
spent eight months in Nepal,

1246
01:17:06,630 --> 01:17:11,910
teaching English. Wow. And
awesome experience. But

1247
01:17:12,810 --> 01:17:17,130
surprisingly, the biggest thing
that really hit me was how

1248
01:17:17,130 --> 01:17:21,780
technology was completely
transforming people's lives.

1249
01:17:22,260 --> 01:17:25,770
Like they would, they would take
their cell phones and climb to

1250
01:17:25,770 --> 01:17:30,900
the top of the hill and give
each other missed calls. Like,

1251
01:17:31,200 --> 01:17:34,560
yeah, like and not not pick it
up. And they would make

1252
01:17:34,560 --> 01:17:37,410
agreements, okay, to miss calls,
means the three missed calls

1253
01:17:37,410 --> 01:17:40,920
means that, so they wouldn't
have to pay the service

1254
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:45,390
provider. Wow. Literally, that
is Morse code of missed call

1255
01:17:45,390 --> 01:17:49,710
system. And that would save
them, you know, 12 hours needing

1256
01:17:49,710 --> 01:17:53,790
to walk to the next village and
back. So it just sort of blew my

1257
01:17:53,790 --> 01:18:00,360
mind, even the most decrepit and
old crappy technology is such an

1258
01:18:00,360 --> 01:18:07,200
amazing improvement. from, from
not that, and I mean, growing up

1259
01:18:07,200 --> 01:18:09,780
where everyone is digital,
native, everyone's on the

1260
01:18:09,780 --> 01:18:14,130
internet, you know, I sort of
took it all for granted. But

1261
01:18:14,130 --> 01:18:19,170
that kind of opened my eyes to,
to the internet and how awesome

1262
01:18:19,170 --> 01:18:24,090
it is. So when I came back from
that trip, I actually started a

1263
01:18:24,090 --> 01:18:29,610
Nepalese food card with my
friend from Nepal. And, and we,

1264
01:18:29,640 --> 01:18:33,270
I made a WordPress site. That
was my first coding experience.

1265
01:18:33,270 --> 01:18:39,480
I was like 2012 and went down
the WordPress, rabbit hole for a

1266
01:18:39,480 --> 01:18:43,140
few years making like websites
for small businesses and stuff.

1267
01:18:44,430 --> 01:18:47,970
And eventually got into
JavaScript got into web

1268
01:18:47,970 --> 01:18:53,010
development. And yeah, just
totally became addicted to

1269
01:18:53,010 --> 01:18:53,430
coding.

1270
01:18:54,660 --> 01:18:56,610
what language you spend most
your time in now as a

1271
01:18:56,610 --> 01:18:57,240
JavaScript?

1272
01:18:58,560 --> 01:19:01,890
Java, I mean, it's all
TypeScript. But yeah, JavaScript

1273
01:19:01,890 --> 01:19:06,090
is TypeScript. Same same. But a
lot of our stuff is built in go,

1274
01:19:06,450 --> 01:19:11,100
like the drive and the meme
stuff. So I really like go for

1275
01:19:11,100 --> 01:19:16,110
back end development. Okay, and
I'm learning rust.

1276
01:19:16,170 --> 01:19:18,960
That's a really cool language.
Is that something but I'm gonna

1277
01:19:18,960 --> 01:19:21,120
use that Spanx? Or is that
something you're just doing as a

1278
01:19:21,120 --> 01:19:21,840
side project?

1279
01:19:22,500 --> 01:19:28,740
I mean, it would be great to to
have kind of like something of a

1280
01:19:28,740 --> 01:19:34,500
dream but sort of wrapping up
relay as this rust lightning

1281
01:19:34,830 --> 01:19:37,350
thing that would make it much
much more efficient and be able

1282
01:19:37,350 --> 01:19:41,700
to run not on a 520 dollar
Raspberry Pi but on like a five

1283
01:19:41,700 --> 01:19:45,150
cent you know, yeah, thing the
size of a nickel

1284
01:19:45,570 --> 01:19:47,730
like that to get get it down to
bare metal.

1285
01:19:47,789 --> 01:19:50,669
Yeah, right. Like it's probably
not quite possible yet, but one

1286
01:19:50,669 --> 01:19:56,039
day, it will be so yeah, I'm
trying to remember how I got

1287
01:19:56,039 --> 01:20:02,189
into bitcoin. My friend in 2016
got me into it. And I definitely

1288
01:20:02,189 --> 01:20:07,769
saw the potential for, for like,
Okay, this could possibly be a

1289
01:20:07,769 --> 01:20:13,799
whole new global financial
system. But until micro payments

1290
01:20:13,799 --> 01:20:16,979
and lightning came around, I
didn't really see how it could

1291
01:20:16,979 --> 01:20:19,559
be used by regular people

1292
01:20:20,040 --> 01:20:22,590
will probably could I mean until
lightning came around, it really

1293
01:20:22,590 --> 01:20:23,940
couldn't that much I

1294
01:20:23,940 --> 01:20:27,780
mean, right, like you can buy it
and hold it cool, like a hedge

1295
01:20:27,930 --> 01:20:31,470
against inflation or whatever.
But it's not necessarily

1296
01:20:31,470 --> 01:20:33,660
something that's going to help
change the world like the

1297
01:20:33,660 --> 01:20:37,620
internet in general did. But
micro payments, I do feel like

1298
01:20:37,620 --> 01:20:42,720
Like I said earlier, it totally
changes the system, because you

1299
01:20:42,720 --> 01:20:46,770
just don't need to keep a
persistent record of who is

1300
01:20:46,770 --> 01:20:50,190
interacting with your service
online. If you're streaming

1301
01:20:50,190 --> 01:20:54,270
value one way, and whatever
service you're providing the

1302
01:20:54,270 --> 01:20:58,890
other way. And I mean, if the if
the customer stopped streaming

1303
01:20:58,890 --> 01:21:03,780
stats, you stopped streaming
yard side. So you just don't

1304
01:21:03,780 --> 01:21:05,490
need that credit card number.

1305
01:21:05,910 --> 01:21:10,590
How does? Let me this may have
been a poll question, but just

1306
01:21:10,590 --> 01:21:13,440
thinks it do you think things
will ever do any sort of

1307
01:21:13,470 --> 01:21:16,200
onboarding from Fiat? Or is that
something you'll just want to

1308
01:21:16,200 --> 01:21:17,280
avoid altogether?

1309
01:21:18,690 --> 01:21:22,350
Yeah, I mean, I, we do have a
little button in there to add

1310
01:21:22,350 --> 01:21:23,970
from cash app. So

1311
01:21:24,600 --> 01:21:26,340
I didn't know that. I don't see
that.

1312
01:21:26,730 --> 01:21:31,500
That's basically how we do it.
It works all the time. Yeah.

1313
01:21:31,770 --> 01:21:32,010
Well, the

1314
01:21:32,010 --> 01:21:36,870
reason I asked is because like,
currently, my flow to get to get

1315
01:21:36,870 --> 01:21:40,230
funds and to get lightning into
my Sphinx app, or anywhere

1316
01:21:40,230 --> 01:21:46,860
really, is I go strike through a
debit card, and then send that

1317
01:21:47,100 --> 01:21:50,760
send that money to wherever I
want it. And so that is like

1318
01:21:50,790 --> 01:21:54,870
basically zero fees. And it gets
me my lightning without having

1319
01:21:54,870 --> 01:21:58,110
to go through any Bitcoin steps
at all. But the problem is

1320
01:21:58,110 --> 01:22:01,050
outside of the US, you know,
strikes not really available

1321
01:22:02,790 --> 01:22:06,930
everywhere, so that, you know,
there is for people we ran into

1322
01:22:06,930 --> 01:22:10,500
this with with Martin from pod
friend, for example, he was

1323
01:22:10,500 --> 01:22:14,010
trying to get some will. And I
think we ran this with a dilemma

1324
01:22:14,010 --> 01:22:16,650
to you know, just even test
their apps, they were like,

1325
01:22:16,650 --> 01:22:19,890
Whoa, I mean, I got onboard
somewhere. And so we ended up

1326
01:22:19,890 --> 01:22:22,800
sending them some lightning,
just do 20 bucks with the

1327
01:22:22,800 --> 01:22:26,610
lightning just to get them go.
And, and you know that while the

1328
01:22:26,610 --> 01:22:30,570
onboarding problem i think is
being solved. I just wonder how

1329
01:22:30,600 --> 01:22:34,860
deep y'all were going? What
y'all his plans were around that

1330
01:22:34,860 --> 01:22:37,350
if y'all ever plan to get into
that game, or if you're just

1331
01:22:37,350 --> 01:22:39,570
gonna be like, Man, that we
don't want to do that.

1332
01:22:40,560 --> 01:22:45,570
Yeah, I know. It's a little
stressful to, for Paul to think

1333
01:22:45,570 --> 01:22:49,740
about, well, like, Are we going
to be a banking? Right? Yeah. I

1334
01:22:49,740 --> 01:22:53,100
mean, like, is this make as if
we're onboarding Fiat? Does that

1335
01:22:53,100 --> 01:22:57,450
make us like a money transfer
company or whatever? So? I don't

1336
01:22:57,480 --> 01:23:01,080
we're not working on that yet.
At this point. Yeah. But I think

1337
01:23:01,080 --> 01:23:05,850
it is talking to different legal
advice, just to see what that

1338
01:23:05,850 --> 01:23:06,630
would imply.

1339
01:23:07,230 --> 01:23:09,840
It's a big step. I mean, cuz
then you get a gig and all the

1340
01:23:09,840 --> 01:23:12,750
regulations, all the KYC stuff.
Yeah, it's right. It's big. It's

1341
01:23:12,750 --> 01:23:15,120
a big deal. It's not something
to be taken lightly at all.

1342
01:23:15,600 --> 01:23:18,750
And of course, the limit is
like, whatever it is, it's in,

1343
01:23:18,840 --> 01:23:23,220
it's in dollars. So yeah, if
we're doing like 5000 sets, like

1344
01:23:23,220 --> 01:23:26,130
maybe that's under the limit
today, but who knows what it is,

1345
01:23:26,430 --> 01:23:27,270
tomorrow. So

1346
01:23:27,930 --> 01:23:30,930
and that's, to me, that's the
genius of strike is they they're

1347
01:23:30,930 --> 01:23:34,110
like avoiding the whole
conversion thing. You get it in

1348
01:23:34,110 --> 01:23:37,470
there. And it's, it's, you're
moving lightning, but it's all

1349
01:23:37,470 --> 01:23:42,840
denominated in currency. So
you're not really, you're

1350
01:23:42,840 --> 01:23:47,850
avoiding that conversion step.
Until you send it out. And then

1351
01:23:48,090 --> 01:23:51,870
it's, it's, it's fairly genius,
the way the way that it because

1352
01:23:51,870 --> 01:23:56,100
you never see how many sets you
have in strike. It's always,

1353
01:23:56,460 --> 01:23:57,480
it's always be.

1354
01:23:59,580 --> 01:24:03,360
And it fluctuates, or they just
know, as soon as you send it

1355
01:24:03,360 --> 01:24:04,980
out, it's fine. But then at
that,

1356
01:24:05,460 --> 01:24:09,330
if you buy 20, if you buy $20,
if you put $20 into your strike

1357
01:24:09,330 --> 01:24:13,260
wallet, it shows up as 20 US
dollars forever, no matter what

1358
01:24:13,260 --> 01:24:16,200
Bitcoin does underneath. And so
they really are only using

1359
01:24:16,200 --> 01:24:17,850
lightning as a transport
mechanism.

1360
01:24:18,930 --> 01:24:19,530
And yeah,

1361
01:24:21,150 --> 01:24:25,230
yeah, it avoids having to do
those conversion swaps, which

1362
01:24:25,380 --> 01:24:28,380
brings in a whole another host
of regulations. But then if I

1363
01:24:28,380 --> 01:24:32,880
send it to a to a lightning app,
it comes in as lightning. Yeah,

1364
01:24:32,880 --> 01:24:35,130
it's beautiful. Yeah, I

1365
01:24:35,130 --> 01:24:40,170
mean, we've always been on the
train of like, it's the new

1366
01:24:40,170 --> 01:24:43,860
standard, that make everyone
think in terms of sets, but who

1367
01:24:43,860 --> 01:24:45,720
knows if that is ever gonna
happen.

1368
01:24:46,950 --> 01:24:51,090
Well, I mean, I think in SATs
more and more, it's been, you

1369
01:24:51,090 --> 01:24:55,410
know, good nine months to a
year. And there's a lot of

1370
01:24:55,500 --> 01:24:58,350
places where my brain just
starts to make the connection.

1371
01:24:58,740 --> 01:25:02,220
So it does grow on you, but Also
in I'm used to euros and you

1372
01:25:02,220 --> 01:25:07,530
know, and dealing with that
often. And these cookbooks in

1373
01:25:07,530 --> 01:25:12,450
Australia and Canada navia,
which are, you know, to like,

1374
01:25:12,720 --> 01:25:16,320
one one Canadian dollars, like
three cents us.

1375
01:25:18,180 --> 01:25:19,620
For j for James gray

1376
01:25:19,620 --> 01:25:21,150
really, really?

1377
01:25:21,420 --> 01:25:25,560
Well, Evan, this is a really
Congratulations, man on on all

1378
01:25:25,560 --> 01:25:29,610
this work and, and in because
you know, I know a lot of the

1379
01:25:29,610 --> 01:25:32,550
developer goes into this and the
love shows, man.

1380
01:25:33,539 --> 01:25:38,579
Yeah, it's been it's been a wild
ride, honestly. And it has been

1381
01:25:38,579 --> 01:25:41,909
great working with Paul. I mean,
he's, he's definitely involved

1382
01:25:42,089 --> 01:25:46,289
all the time. But he's also just
sort of like, do what you're

1383
01:25:46,289 --> 01:25:50,009
gonna do. You know, are you
gonna use l SATs? And I was

1384
01:25:50,009 --> 01:25:54,509
like, I don't know, I'm probably
just build my own thing that

1385
01:25:54,509 --> 01:25:57,389
I'm, which of course, it's good
to standardize. It's good to

1386
01:25:57,389 --> 01:26:00,779
have standards. But I'm sure
you've seen the cartoon where

1387
01:26:00,779 --> 01:26:03,839
there's like 10 competing
standards, and then they create

1388
01:26:03,839 --> 01:26:06,149
the one standard to rule them
all. And now there's 11

1389
01:26:06,149 --> 01:26:06,539
competing.

1390
01:26:08,370 --> 01:26:10,920
Oh, believe me, that one's cut.
That cartoon has been posted on

1391
01:26:10,920 --> 01:26:12,390
the namespace and the namespace.

1392
01:26:14,610 --> 01:26:16,680
For sure, yeah. I've

1393
01:26:16,680 --> 01:26:18,990
always been like, let's build
it, you know, whatever,

1394
01:26:19,020 --> 01:26:23,040
whatever. headaches. I mean,
outside is awesome. But it was a

1395
01:26:23,040 --> 01:26:27,750
little bit pre peace end. And
you don't necessarily need,

1396
01:26:27,900 --> 01:26:31,620
right, some of the those. I
don't know what to do with the

1397
01:26:31,620 --> 01:26:34,350
keys and you can do things just
directly. So

1398
01:26:35,490 --> 01:26:38,580
what do you ever do you want to
stick around and listen in for

1399
01:26:38,580 --> 01:26:41,640
the donation segment? And we can
you can kind of listen to how

1400
01:26:41,640 --> 01:26:44,010
many people are involved in this
whole thing?

1401
01:26:44,910 --> 01:26:47,700
Sure. Yeah. I'll just be on in
the background here.

1402
01:26:48,090 --> 01:26:51,630
This is a value for value
production, not just this

1403
01:26:51,630 --> 01:26:56,400
podcast, but podcast index.org,
the the gathering the watering

1404
01:26:56,400 --> 01:27:00,900
hole at podcast index dot
social, the GitHub, all of that

1405
01:27:00,900 --> 01:27:05,280
is part of podcasting. 2.0 we
are upgrading podcasting and the

1406
01:27:05,280 --> 01:27:09,300
value for value is very simple.
If you're listening to this, if

1407
01:27:09,300 --> 01:27:12,420
you see any value you get out of
the project, if you want to

1408
01:27:12,420 --> 01:27:15,210
contribute, and we always
looking for the three T's your

1409
01:27:15,210 --> 01:27:18,090
time, your talent, your
treasure, we got a lot of people

1410
01:27:18,090 --> 01:27:21,990
contributing a crapload of time
and talent, Evan included. For

1411
01:27:21,990 --> 01:27:25,470
those who want to sponsor us and
support us financially. We make

1412
01:27:25,470 --> 01:27:29,730
that possible. A couple of ways
podcast index.org big yellow

1413
01:27:29,730 --> 01:27:32,640
Donate button down at the
bottom. That page is also a

1414
01:27:32,640 --> 01:27:40,230
place to read red bread. I have
too many shows that I do. You

1415
01:27:40,230 --> 01:27:44,250
can also get on a subscription
payment schedule with your

1416
01:27:44,250 --> 01:27:47,730
lightning there. And if you're
in one of the podcasting 2.0

1417
01:27:47,730 --> 01:27:51,660
certified apps, you'll see a
Donate button pop up and Dave,

1418
01:27:51,780 --> 01:27:56,040
what have we, we're kind of
treasure have we received this

1419
01:27:56,040 --> 01:27:56,460
week.

1420
01:27:57,300 --> 01:28:01,800
We get to we get to donors this
week. One of them is Myron

1421
01:28:01,800 --> 01:28:09,060
Webber. He donated $66.78 I'm
not sure what the Oh, here's his

1422
01:28:09,060 --> 01:28:12,510
message explains that he says
here's a donation in the amount

1423
01:28:12,510 --> 01:28:18,000
of pat proprietary magic number.
Monaco, I'm a co host of the

1424
01:28:18,000 --> 01:28:25,710
mental supermodels podcast
explore Okay, so it gives the

1425
01:28:25,710 --> 01:28:31,260
website is mental supermodels
calm. co host of mental

1426
01:28:31,260 --> 01:28:35,550
supermodels podcast exploring
the theory and practice art and

1427
01:28:35,550 --> 01:28:38,760
science of mental modeling for
problem solving and decision

1428
01:28:38,760 --> 01:28:41,880
making. Less expensive, less
exciting than I thought it was.

1429
01:28:42,930 --> 01:28:47,670
I'm at the website already.
Mental supermodels,

1430
01:28:47,999 --> 01:28:51,839
send pictures. I've discovered
your awesome work. And I'm

1431
01:28:51,839 --> 01:28:54,569
trying to figure out how I can
help with the time and talent.

1432
01:28:55,019 --> 01:28:58,709
Since this exhausts my treasure
at the moment, is there a guide

1433
01:28:58,709 --> 01:29:02,219
for how to supercharge my plain
old podcast to be 2.0 certified?

1434
01:29:02,879 --> 01:29:06,479
There is yes. I don't need a
lodge put me in the right

1435
01:29:06,479 --> 01:29:09,029
direction. And I'll document it
along the way to create a better

1436
01:29:09,029 --> 01:29:12,689
guide for the next folks down
the trail. Well, Myron that's in

1437
01:29:12,689 --> 01:29:13,109
the works.

1438
01:29:13,140 --> 01:29:18,540
Yeah. But you can always go to
new podcast apps calm and select

1439
01:29:18,540 --> 01:29:22,140
hosts. And there are a number of
hosts who already already

1440
01:29:22,140 --> 01:29:27,300
provide a lot of the features of
the of the podcast namespace. So

1441
01:29:27,300 --> 01:29:29,370
that would be that would be a
you know, if you want that's you

1442
01:29:29,370 --> 01:29:33,060
can get started right away or
migrate or there's a ton of

1443
01:29:33,060 --> 01:29:36,990
different places that can help
you already today. Yeah, thank

1444
01:29:36,990 --> 01:29:38,370
you. Thank you for your support.

1445
01:29:40,590 --> 01:29:47,130
Christopher Tomkinson gave us
$50 and Chris says go podcasting

1446
01:29:48,450 --> 01:29:53,040
and donated previously out of a
pure love for podcasts in open

1447
01:29:53,040 --> 01:29:56,070
source, but this time I'm
providing value for a different

1448
01:29:56,070 --> 01:29:59,970
reason. I soft launched my own
new podcast on that stage.

1449
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:03,780
proprietary fruit decks earlier
this week was

1450
01:30:04,710 --> 01:30:06,780
proprietary what fruit decks

1451
01:30:06,930 --> 01:30:14,850
fruit decks FRUITDX Oh, Apple
Apple podcast. Okay. Gabrielle

1452
01:30:14,850 --> 01:30:19,140
No, good. Okay, so soft launched
my own new podcast on that

1453
01:30:19,140 --> 01:30:22,320
stupid proprietary fruit decks
earlier this week. But this

1454
01:30:22,320 --> 01:30:25,470
morning I signed up for a
podcast index.org API account

1455
01:30:25,470 --> 01:30:28,860
submitted the feed to make it
officially live. All right, so I

1456
01:30:28,860 --> 01:30:32,010
felt the compulsion to provide
some good old fashioned Thea in

1457
01:30:32,010 --> 01:30:34,350
return for services rendered
keep rocking hard, and he gave

1458
01:30:34,350 --> 01:30:35,340
us $50 Thanks,

1459
01:30:35,340 --> 01:30:39,330
man. Can we still accept cut
bucks no problem.

1460
01:30:39,810 --> 01:30:43,680
Oh, yeah, yeah, we're not
ashamed that and I also wanted

1461
01:30:43,680 --> 01:30:47,490
to we have a lot of monthly
donors who contribute small

1462
01:30:47,490 --> 01:30:49,110
amounts Yes. I never read them.

1463
01:30:49,110 --> 01:30:51,510
Did you do that could just you
had the list there just run down

1464
01:30:51,510 --> 01:30:51,600
and

1465
01:30:51,600 --> 01:30:54,690
real quick. Yeah, and there is
way more than I thought there

1466
01:30:54,690 --> 01:31:00,120
were Oh, wow. Yeah, so these are
monthly donors who get a lot of

1467
01:31:00,120 --> 01:31:06,030
these are just $2 $3 $5 $1 and
but there's a couple of that are

1468
01:31:06,030 --> 01:31:12,210
20 $50 we got Paul Saltzman,
Keith Gibson, Chad Feroz, do

1469
01:31:12,210 --> 01:31:16,920
coats. Michael kimmerer. Leslie
Martin. Jeff Miller, Chris

1470
01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:21,720
Cowan. Martin Morrison. Jeremy
Cavanaugh.

1471
01:31:22,530 --> 01:31:26,400
Martin is donating pod Frank
Martin. Wow, man.

1472
01:31:26,430 --> 01:31:29,190
Yeah, yeah. Okay. Mitch Downey
from pod verse.

1473
01:31:30,900 --> 01:31:34,740
You guys, David Norman swiper.
catcher.

1474
01:31:34,770 --> 01:31:42,510
Yep. Soren Miller. Derek visca.
Christopher, chair, rubber chair

1475
01:31:42,510 --> 01:31:48,720
a bark. pod verse, LLC. Greg
Thomas and Jeremy new Cameron

1476
01:31:48,720 --> 01:31:53,760
rows, Charles current Clark
sales. Christopher raymer.

1477
01:31:54,540 --> 01:32:01,080
Thomas Carson. Dred Scott. He's
monthly done. Yeah. Jason. Jason

1478
01:32:01,080 --> 01:32:06,360
defilippo. Gary Keller, David
metus. Joseph maraca Mark Graham

1479
01:32:06,360 --> 01:32:11,910
Scott Joubert Duane Goldy. Larry
Hey, Aaron Renaud, Pedro and

1480
01:32:11,910 --> 01:32:16,200
Gunn call this Kevin row a droid
works LLC and borderline

1481
01:32:16,200 --> 01:32:16,770
promotions.

1482
01:32:16,890 --> 01:32:22,350
Wow. Great. That's a great list.
No wonder we we haven't gone

1483
01:32:22,350 --> 01:32:25,620
broke yet. We can still pay for
stuff. That's fine. That's

1484
01:32:25,620 --> 01:32:26,370
great.

1485
01:32:27,150 --> 01:32:30,510
That's Yeah, I didn't realize I
started going through the list

1486
01:32:30,510 --> 01:32:33,930
and looking up all the monthly
donor emails and stuff. And then

1487
01:32:33,930 --> 01:32:36,090
I went through and subtracted
the like, crossed out the people

1488
01:32:36,090 --> 01:32:41,310
who cancelled and there was so
many on this list. I had to I

1489
01:32:41,310 --> 01:32:43,050
had to get a bigger piece of
paper. That is

1490
01:32:43,050 --> 01:32:48,000
well, thank you to each and
every one of you. And this new

1491
01:32:48,000 --> 01:32:50,070
developer guys, man like this.

1492
01:32:50,820 --> 01:32:51,420
Thank you.

1493
01:32:51,690 --> 01:32:53,280
I'm always a bit humbled by
that.

1494
01:32:54,209 --> 01:32:56,129
Yeah. Awesome. So that's a great

1495
01:32:56,249 --> 01:33:00,389
podcast. index.org support the
value for value proposition.

1496
01:33:00,629 --> 01:33:04,289
Maybe as we wrap this up, as we
go around the the boardroom

1497
01:33:04,289 --> 01:33:07,709
table, maybe Evan, do you have
any questions for us about

1498
01:33:07,709 --> 01:33:11,369
podcasting, 2.0, or anything,
any features you'd like to see,

1499
01:33:11,369 --> 01:33:14,309
or just anything in general
about our side?

1500
01:33:16,230 --> 01:33:16,770
Um,

1501
01:33:17,400 --> 01:33:21,660
I just think it's an awesome
project. And I would, I mean,

1502
01:33:21,660 --> 01:33:25,320
I'd love to sit down again and
just figure out like you

1503
01:33:25,320 --> 01:33:27,750
mentioned, there's all these
other namespace tags that I

1504
01:33:27,750 --> 01:33:31,440
have, I'm not even familiar
with. So knowing what's out

1505
01:33:31,440 --> 01:33:35,550
there, what's happening, what's
in the future is gonna be cool.

1506
01:33:36,210 --> 01:33:40,560
Well, we've got a lot of really
smart people working on a lot of

1507
01:33:40,560 --> 01:33:44,700
great features. And same for you
having new podcast apps. COMM

1508
01:33:44,700 --> 01:33:51,390
Sphinx chat is there. It's
pretty pretty nifty with those

1509
01:33:51,390 --> 01:33:55,470
guys. Well, I can't wait to end
the show for once. Because I'm

1510
01:33:55,470 --> 01:34:00,090
ready to go download the new,
the new APK where is the APK? I

1511
01:34:00,090 --> 01:34:01,140
listed on the homepage.

1512
01:34:02,730 --> 01:34:06,540
an APK has not been updated in a
while but I'm gonna upload it

1513
01:34:06,540 --> 01:34:07,770
later today. Oh, thank

1514
01:34:07,770 --> 01:34:10,920
you, because I've been running
graphene OS and I'm quite

1515
01:34:10,920 --> 01:34:13,980
partial to it. But I have a I
have an iPhone. So I'll get it

1516
01:34:13,980 --> 01:34:15,660
from the app store as well to
test that there.

1517
01:34:16,200 --> 01:34:19,320
Is that F droid? Is that what
Griffin uses?

1518
01:34:19,920 --> 01:34:23,220
Yeah, I mean, you can use any
apk file but there's there's

1519
01:34:23,220 --> 01:34:26,040
three different apps. f droid
would be the one I would hope it

1520
01:34:26,040 --> 01:34:26,760
would show up in.

1521
01:34:27,390 --> 01:34:31,950
Okay. Yeah, well, we're actually
going to completely from scratch

1522
01:34:31,950 --> 01:34:39,780
we build Android to support
graphene and stuff it's it's

1523
01:34:39,780 --> 01:34:42,600
built on React Native right now,
which is alright, but it's kind

1524
01:34:42,600 --> 01:34:46,470
of hard to get around some of
the standard things so

1525
01:34:46,890 --> 01:34:49,770
well, it runs on graphene just
fine. I mean, I've no issues

1526
01:34:49,770 --> 01:34:51,030
Yeah, no issues at all.

1527
01:34:51,600 --> 01:34:54,210
I've had people say they
couldn't get the QR scanner to

1528
01:34:54,210 --> 01:34:57,630
work or something. But maybe
that was different issue.

1529
01:34:59,040 --> 01:35:04,110
All user error. No doubt. Damn
users don't know what they're

1530
01:35:04,110 --> 01:35:06,390
doing. Hey, Evan, thank you
again, man. Thank you for your

1531
01:35:06,390 --> 01:35:10,020
time. Thank you for your talent.
Everything that that you've been

1532
01:35:10,020 --> 01:35:13,110
doing, it's been great
connecting and great. Great

1533
01:35:13,110 --> 01:35:16,440
getting a bit of insight into
into you and Paul as well and

1534
01:35:16,500 --> 01:35:19,080
everything that's going on over
there. And we'll have to have

1535
01:35:19,080 --> 01:35:19,830
you back on.

1536
01:35:20,970 --> 01:35:26,370
Yeah. Thanks for having us on.
It's been really fun. And yeah,

1537
01:35:26,400 --> 01:35:30,300
have an awesome week. Thank you.
I can't win. Yeah, I'm

1538
01:35:30,300 --> 01:35:32,700
gonna go to the app store right
after this. Dave, anything for

1539
01:35:32,700 --> 01:35:37,290
you anything that we need to do
to lighten your load?

1540
01:35:37,770 --> 01:35:43,050
now now now now? I'm good. We're
gonna have bit Benjamin Bellamy

1541
01:35:43,050 --> 01:35:44,040
on next week.

1542
01:35:45,510 --> 01:35:46,710
Feed directory. Yeah.

1543
01:35:47,220 --> 01:35:49,410
No, no, no, no. I'm counting the
podcast.

1544
01:35:49,710 --> 01:35:53,850
Yes, yes. Yeah. Oh, good. I get
to pressure him. Yeah. Where the

1545
01:35:53,850 --> 01:35:54,870
hell is it, brother?

1546
01:35:56,130 --> 01:35:58,740
We're gonna have him on. And
he's got he. I don't know if you

1547
01:35:58,920 --> 01:36:03,180
noticed. But he gave us a
proposal type proposal for

1548
01:36:03,210 --> 01:36:04,830
podcast recommendation. Yes.

1549
01:36:04,860 --> 01:36:09,720
I saw that. And I saw and I've
started to look at it. And that

1550
01:36:09,720 --> 01:36:12,600
should let's say I want to go
ahead.

1551
01:36:12,630 --> 01:36:13,860
Yeah, I want a deep dive with
him.

1552
01:36:14,040 --> 01:36:17,550
Yeah. That's an algo killer
right there. algorithm killer

1553
01:36:17,550 --> 01:36:19,260
right there. Yeah,

1554
01:36:19,320 --> 01:36:23,460
it's exactly I think it's
intended that way too. We are

1555
01:36:23,460 --> 01:36:25,860
pirates. We're wrecking
everything. Thank you both very

1556
01:36:25,860 --> 01:36:30,960
much. This has been podcasting.
2.0 we'll be back next week for

1557
01:36:30,960 --> 01:36:33,930
another board meeting as we
discuss what's going on at

1558
01:36:33,930 --> 01:36:35,400
podcasts. index.org See

1559
01:36:35,400 --> 01:36:35,790
you then.

1560
01:36:50,400 --> 01:36:53,790
You have been listening to
podcasting 2.0.

1561
01:36:53,910 --> 01:36:57,720
This is podcast in this.com. For
more information