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Casting 2.0 for April 23 2021,
Episode 34 it's all hands on

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deck. Like swaby. Get up there
in the rigging. everybody.

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Welcome to the weekly board
meeting for podcasters point oh

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podcast index.org, where we
discuss everything that's going

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on around the big movement, the
revolution in podcasting. I'm

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Adam curry in Austin, Texas. And
in Alabama, the man who has a

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head for Hydra and a body for
bodybuilding. Ladies and

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gentlemen.

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I always try to figure out what
you're going to lead with. I put

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what the show title is going to
be. I got I just knew you were

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going to do checking all the
boxes.

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Checking all the boxes. Yeah.
Wow, I didn't even think of

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that. the check

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box that broke the world.

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The check box that busted stuff.

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Yeah,

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I think that the show covers
more than the mistakes of mere

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small competitors. Wouldn't want
to see the fun to seem too petty

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or anything like that. So yeah,
yeah, it's a jam packed show

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today a lot to talk about. We
also have special guests

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stopping by we've got the co
founders of captivate.fm mark

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and Kieran will be talking to
them and in a bit. But while

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Dave, somehow I have the feeling
that about a year ago, maybe a

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little under a year ago, you and
I were talking and we're saying,

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you know, what is the what is
the apple decided to turn stuff

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off for, you know, seems like a
week kind of thing in the chain.

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And no one's really ever looked
at it. And we decided to build

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this thing with two missions.
One is to preserve podcasting as

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a platform for free speech,
which you have to actually it

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has to work to actually be able
to have free speech flowing

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through it or any speech, and
also retool as a platform of

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value for all parties involved.
Part one turned out to be pretty

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visionary that, that we saw that
something could happen and

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something did.

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Yeah. I mean, so that's, that's
the real, you know, burning

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question is,

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what happened? Is

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it? Is it on purpose? Well, to
me, it says like, is it on

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purpose? Or it? You know, it all
boils down to is it is it

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malicious? Or is it ignorant,
like or incompetence? Okay,

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well, that that's the way I've
seen it play that's like this,

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both sides of the spectrum
there, but I don't, I really

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just don't think it's either. I
think it's a middle. I think

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it's the middle of the road
issue. And I mean, just for

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clarity, what you know, what
we're talking about, is that,

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oh, my god, you're a good
podcaster. Well done. Well

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played.

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Thank you. Thank you. I'll take
that. The the issue here is that

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Apple is Apple put that checkbox
on the new podcast or connect

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dashboard. And the checkbox
says, do you want to be listed

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or some version of this? Do you
want to be listed in the in the

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API in the apple, iTunes,
whatever you call it?

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Well, that's not what it says. I
think it says Do you want your

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feed to be publicly available?

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That's okay. That's a little

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different. That's a little
different than API.

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Okay, so do you want your feed
to be publicly available? And if

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so, then, which seems like a
straightforward thing? Do you?

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Do you want to be listed? Do you
want your Feed URL to be given

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out in public API request?

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Again, I sound like, again, no,
that's not what a podcaster

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thinks a podcaster has no idea
about an API.

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No, Agreed. Agreed. I'm just
talking about on a tech level.

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Okay. No, okay. Well, it but it
words matter, you know, so what

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were they really communicating?
Did they mean publicly so that

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you can get on the apple podcast
app? Yeah, that's the part that

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was not explained this, like,
what does that actually mean?

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What is publicly available? I
don't know what that means.

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Yeah, I got no idea. So like,
from a tech perspective, though,

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you can make sense out of that.
Like, you can say, Okay, well,

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this is, this is what they made.
And especially after it breaks,

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you can say, Oh, that's what
that meant.

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Yeah, that's easier. We still
but that part, we still haven't

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figured out which is
interesting.

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Well, that's what was gonna say.
But, you know, it makes sense

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when you read it to a tech to a
tech guy. But then what we

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didn't know was what they
actually build was like,

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essentially a magic eight ball
where you check, you check the

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box, and then you shake that
shit up. That's when you look at

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it and see what to say try again
later. Yeah, maybe?

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Yeah. Perhaps perhaps. Right.
seems likely. Yes, he's

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likely. I mean, like, that's
essentially what they did. And I

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don't. To me, what I think is
that is neither competence, nor

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on purpose, they're not turning
the API off, they're not doing

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anything like that. I think the
real sort of, I think it was

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really going on is that they
just don't care. Okay. Partially

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flesh that let me let me flesh
the other. Okay. When I say they

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don't care what I mean is just
step back and look at the

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context here. This is a, this is
a company that makes a million

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dollars of profit every eight
minutes. The podcasting makes

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has made them over the years
zero money. And more than that,

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it's operate, it probably
appraised as somewhat of a loss.

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And so I mean, realistically,
subscriptions, I think, for them

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was about remaining competitive
against Spotify, and everybody

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else. And I think the main
another huge reason was just

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turning podcasting from a loss
to a profit center. Just and I'm

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not not anything big. But if you
look across Apple's departmental

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Neo profit, and p&l is let's
just say they have p&l for all

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their different organizations
and within internally, and

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you've always perpetually got
Apple podcast, as this revenue

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sort of sink. And I mean, it may
be it's only a million dollars a

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year that it loses. But still, I
mean, a guy like Tim Cook's

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gonna look at that and be like,
this is annoying. What can we do

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to make that thing at least
break even if not make something

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and the details of how it how
the implementation and how it

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turned out? I just don't think
they really cared that much.

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Alright, I have a similar but
slightly different take one, you

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can tell how important because
we really don't know. I mean, I

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spoke to James Boggs was it
December of last year, and he

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was kind of hinting that we're
going to do something like

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something exclusive, I told him
was stupid. And then I literally

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said the stupidest thing I've
ever heard. And he said, he

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never talked to me again. But
you can so but I know that they

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have a pretty small team and
their budgets are constrained,

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they have to go through a lot of
Apple processes to get anything

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changed anything done. It takes
them a very long time. That's

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their process. And it's a, you
know, software development

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process. And they have a
hardware side that goes along

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with that. You can tell how
important something is based

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upon the amount of time spent on
the topic. And in Tim Cook's,

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Tom Collins, as I like to call
him in his in his little walk

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and talk there. Which by the
way, I'd like to point out that

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he often would would move his
hands into a praying position

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whenever he's like, and we
really hope and he's always

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praying, and he is I mean, he
must literally be praying that

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something works, because if you
watch him again, it's like his

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hands are always going into a
praying position with two hand

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two palms together.

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God jobs do that. Or was is that
a Tim Cook that as a Tim Cook

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thing?

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That's definitely a cook thing.
Or at least, that's the thing I

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see about him. I don't think
jobs at that could be wrong. So

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we spent 90 seconds on
podcasting, and how many minutes

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that you spend on the purple
iPhone. I mean, come on me.

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Yeah, it's rare that they had a
commercial for it and

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everything. In fact, by the time
they finished off with this

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little 90 seconds of podcasting,
I was almost embarrassed that

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they had my picture in there on
the iTunes. I'd like to correct

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something when they say we
started with 3000 podcasts in

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our in our in our index, but
let's just be fair about it. I

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gave that to you. Yeah, that's
what you started with. And I

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remember there was some
disappointment when immediately

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they put NPR was their main
feature that it had almost no

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independent podcasts on the on
the front page. And you see how

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that has morphed. Over time.
Even the mighty Apple could not

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keep their squeaky clean NPR PBS
images, Joe Rogan just dominated

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the dominated the chart there
and others. So they really have

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just moved in podcasting has
driven them. I think they have

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made money indirectly off of
podcasting. It just look at the

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stats, you know, up until
Spotify is true entry into the

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market. Apple was the 800 pound
gorilla, which is, you know,

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makes you wonder if no one's
listening on Android, but it

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doesn't matter. They definitely
owned quote unquote, podcasting

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and to their shareholders. When
Spotify came into the market

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that looked bad, and and you
just can't have a competitor,

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taking away your business and
owning the mindshare. Whether

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it's successful or not, is
irrelevant for public companies.

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That's a big deal. That's why we
saw Mark Zuckerberg of Facebook

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the day before the announcement,
come out and do a long interview

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and and say, Oh, well, you know,
we're gonna be doing this and

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that and yeah, it was the audio
was great. And it's even even

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flubbed a few times and kept
saying video instead of audio

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because it's just the script.
It's just a process. That's that

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runs in that boy's brain. Now,

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the man man notes literally say,
that piece of paper here says

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Facebook lol.

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So there's a number of
customers, Apple always talks

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about their customers or
customers. So their customers

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are people who own their stuff
on their boxes, mainly people,

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app developers or their
customers, and how can you tell

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that someone is a an apple
customers? Because there's a

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money flow from that person to
Apple? If you're an application

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developer, then I believe it's
nine is $1,000. Still to be an

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app developer?

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Now it's 99. a year? Yeah. Oh,
it's

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99 a year? Okay. 100 bucks a
year, right? Oh, I thought it

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was more what was the what if
one point something was 900 or

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something, maybe if you go to
the conference, you're going to

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spend money, it doesn't matter.
You're the customer. They're

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selling you access to something
and there's a relationship

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there. There's a relationship
with podcasters, as witnessed by

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the podcaster briefing, that
everyone who has a podcast

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registered on on Apple received,
but also because there's

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existing relationships. I won't
say the necessarily customers,

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but I think they are the hosting
companies received a briefing.

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And, you know, hosting companies
do have agreements with them on

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updating and pinging, you know,
special API's and stuff. I don't

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know exactly who or how that
works. But was definitely not a

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customer is the independent
podcast, app developer or

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anybody who uses this API.
Because you're paying nothing

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for it, you're not a customer.
So that right has never bothered

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Apple, because they they look
going back to the origins of

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podcasting. When I was using my
Mac drive to serve up mp3 files

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to a bunch of nutjob developers
who were you know, where you

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subscribe to feed and downloaded
all all. All episodes in the

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feed right away. I mean, I was
pushing so much bandwidth Apple

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went and apparently from Steve
Jobs, himself said, Yeah, just

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let's give him what he what he
needs there. And we'll see how

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it plays out. They have no
problem with bandwidth and

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storage. But you're not a
customer. So you're not

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represented inside the company.
That's how big companies work.

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You have someone representing
the customer, and multiple

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customers. So there's someone
who's in charge of the hosting

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company, someone who's in charge
of the podcasters, no one inside

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of Apple is in charge of app
developers, more anything, you

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know, any other website or any
application, any application in

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general that uses their API, so
they were not represented. So

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there was no one there to say,
Oh, this is gonna break stuff.

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Or, hey, you just broke
something. And, and that had to

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come from outside. So yeah, so
So. Yeah. So we're in agreement

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on, they really don't care. If
anyone is fooling themselves

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into believing that they ever
care, then I'm sorry. You know,

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that's, that's, that's the
epitome of Apple fandom. You

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can't expect them to care.

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Yeah, and that's the thing. It's
not a judgement. I mean, I'm

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surprised they took they left
the thing untouched, as long

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as as long as they did. Right?
Well, here we are.

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You know, some don't know who it
was posted on social media

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yesterday that said, if you
think if you think this is just

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a glitch, and everything's gonna
get back to normal, then I can

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tell you, you're kidding
yourself. Because, like, and I'm

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not here to say that, that
necessarily, that this was, this

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won't go that they won't try to
fix it in some capacity. But the

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desire to do that, where would
that desire come from? Like,

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how? Where is that desire going
to originate? They get nothing

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for it,

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you're literally they are
literally giving away something

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for free.

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Yeah, and that's not that's not
in any big company's interest.

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But it's especially not in
Apple's interest that else and

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not when I say especially not, I
just mean, go back to the, they

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make a million dollars of profit
every every like freakin 10

233
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minutes. It's not in their
culture anymore to do things

234
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that lose money. Unless there is
some other externality that goes

235
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along with it, that gives them
status, for instance, carbon

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neutral, the whole green thing.
They, they make a big deal out

237
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of that, and it's gonna lose
them money, they're gonna

238
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they're going to be an expense
for them to some degree, but

239
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they get PR out of it, they get
goodwill, they get get all of

240
00:14:49,170 --> 00:14:53,610
that thing and thing with with
allowing thede URLs to be

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returned in podcast API results.
They don't get any further at

242
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all they get as a competitor.

243
00:14:59,730 --> 00:15:02,880
Yeah. It's irrelevant. It's
completely irrelevant. And the

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funny thing about it to me
though is that if you look what

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00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:12,210
happened and this is indicative
of the larger problem within

246
00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:17,070
within all of this thing is, you
know, I love Justin ever

247
00:15:17,070 --> 00:15:20,730
transistor. I love those guys.
But he now he's reporting back

248
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:26,010
on Twitter, saying, Oh, I heard
I got a DM from an from somebody

249
00:15:26,010 --> 00:15:29,130
at Apple. You know, it's like, I
know a guy that knows a guy

250
00:15:29,910 --> 00:15:33,690
whose mom knows this chick who's
like grandpa lived down the

251
00:15:33,690 --> 00:15:35,610
street from Tim Cook and he
said, it's a bug and they're

252
00:15:35,610 --> 00:15:36,810
gonna fix it. Yeah, I

253
00:15:36,810 --> 00:15:37,920
that's what I heard too.

254
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I mean, like that is is that
literally is the way the podcast

255
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industry works.

256
00:15:42,990 --> 00:15:45,270
Yes, exactly. You Thank you very
much.

257
00:15:45,779 --> 00:15:48,089
That it's not just and James
Cridland called it that, you

258
00:15:48,089 --> 00:15:50,939
know, like, it's bad comms is
bad. It's bad corporate

259
00:15:50,939 --> 00:15:55,439
communication. It's, it's more
than that. I mean, yes, it is.

260
00:15:55,439 --> 00:15:55,619
But

261
00:15:55,620 --> 00:15:58,860
you don't you don't have a
representative within comms at

262
00:15:58,860 --> 00:16:02,100
Apple for for podcast, app
developers. There's no path.

263
00:16:02,250 --> 00:16:06,000
There's no file. There's no
person. There's no general

264
00:16:06,030 --> 00:16:09,390
email. There's no disk. There's
nothing there is nothing for

265
00:16:09,390 --> 00:16:13,200
podcast app developers to never
has been. So how can you expect

266
00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:16,530
any kind of comms Apple is very
simple to understand.

267
00:16:17,129 --> 00:16:20,819
Yeah. You get like in the on the
other hand, why do we even have?

268
00:16:21,269 --> 00:16:25,049
It's a shame that we even have
to care about this crap. Like,

269
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because? Well, I

270
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think I think that just to me,
that ended. That ended the

271
00:16:31,350 --> 00:16:36,990
reputation is I don't want to
say there's any reputation to be

272
00:16:36,990 --> 00:16:41,430
tarnished, but people are not
stupid. People who rely on now

273
00:16:41,430 --> 00:16:45,240
for a lot of podcast app
developers. It's, it's a side

274
00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:48,600
gig. It's a it's a project. Who
knows, you know, this is, by the

275
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,810
way to support them. Please
crank up those value sliders

276
00:16:51,810 --> 00:16:54,420
right now boost the show. Make
sure you're listening on a

277
00:16:54,420 --> 00:16:58,530
podcast 2.0 value for value
streaming set compatible app,

278
00:16:58,650 --> 00:17:03,450
pod friend breeze swings pod
station. I like 100 SATs per

279
00:17:03,450 --> 00:17:06,090
minute and I like 500 boosts
whenever I think something's

280
00:17:06,090 --> 00:17:09,090
Great. So if

281
00:17:09,329 --> 00:17:10,859
that's the standard set by the
father,

282
00:17:10,919 --> 00:17:17,849
yeah, that's my standard. So no,
so you confuse myself. Where I

283
00:17:17,849 --> 00:17:19,979
don't even know what I was
saying. Dave, I just want to get

284
00:17:19,979 --> 00:17:23,609
the message out I'm sorry, I
forgot message.

285
00:17:23,670 --> 00:17:25,590
Messenger. See that messenger.
See that?

286
00:17:25,589 --> 00:17:28,019
Who cares what I was talking
about screw Apple boost us.

287
00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:34,920
Show that's the show notes that
entire show notes. That's the

288
00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:39,600
podcast industry, though. I
mean, like, we played this game

289
00:17:39,630 --> 00:17:43,290
with my we played this game with
my dog is this big, white,

290
00:17:43,650 --> 00:17:49,590
fluffy, gray pennies. And weevil
dog? Yeah, we play this game

291
00:17:49,590 --> 00:17:54,330
with him wherever like his
name's banjo. We're like, where

292
00:17:54,540 --> 00:17:56,370
he'll be sitting there in the
living room. We're like, Where's

293
00:17:56,370 --> 00:18:00,360
banjo? Where's banjo? We can't
find him. And he's sitting right

294
00:18:00,360 --> 00:18:03,930
there. And he starts like it.
You know, when you first start

295
00:18:03,930 --> 00:18:07,200
doing it. He's like, Wait, what?
And he's just looking at you,

296
00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:10,560
like all concerned. And then the
more you keep doing it, he

297
00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,770
starts freaking out. He's like,
Guys, I'm right here, guys.

298
00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:16,260
Because what was wrong? I'm
right here. And that's like,

299
00:18:16,290 --> 00:18:19,740
that's what it felt like this
with the apple stuff. Like,

300
00:18:20,550 --> 00:18:23,610
everybody's show disappeared.
It's like No, it didn't the RSS

301
00:18:23,610 --> 00:18:28,650
feed is right there. It's just
not an apple anymore. In the RSS

302
00:18:28,650 --> 00:18:31,080
feed the whole times. Like,
guys, I'm right here. And

303
00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:33,240
everybody's like, Where's the
show? And it's like, I'm right

304
00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,600
here. Oh, my God, where the show
goes. The RSS feeds like I

305
00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:38,340
didn't go anywhere. I'm right
here.

306
00:18:40,110 --> 00:18:46,590
So crazy. I heard this on NBC. I
think I sent myself a timecode

307
00:18:46,590 --> 00:18:56,190
link. Let me see. Did I send
this to myself? I was listening

308
00:18:56,190 --> 00:19:02,520
to the new media show. Okay. And
I guess I didn't send that to

309
00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:08,010
me. But I'm listening to the new
media show. And now this of

310
00:19:08,010 --> 00:19:10,560
course, when you're doing a
media show about new or show

311
00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:15,300
about new media, and you have a
day delay, you're gonna sound

312
00:19:15,300 --> 00:19:19,650
silly. Wait, no. In fact, if we
had taped our full show on

313
00:19:19,650 --> 00:19:22,830
Wednesday with the captivate
guys, who really couldn't do

314
00:19:22,860 --> 00:19:25,770
they have a conflicting thing on
Friday, they really couldn't

315
00:19:25,770 --> 00:19:29,010
change. So but now we want to
get everybody on. So we did our

316
00:19:29,010 --> 00:19:31,530
little chat with them on
Wednesday. But even if we had

317
00:19:31,530 --> 00:19:34,410
had the full done the full show
that would have been, you know,

318
00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:38,940
confused, we wouldn't have had
all the information. And and oh,

319
00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:45,330
gosh, I wish I had this. So Rob
Greenlee of libsyn, he says, Oh,

320
00:19:45,330 --> 00:19:46,920
yeah, well, there's something
there's a bug, you know, there's

321
00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:50,670
some bug. And so our feeds not
showing up and Todd goes looking

322
00:19:50,670 --> 00:19:55,410
for your shows and the sound he
made. You'd like the sound he

323
00:19:55,410 --> 00:20:00,390
made. He saw that his show was
was no longer listed. was

324
00:20:00,390 --> 00:20:08,910
hilarious. It was Oh, man, I
love that. Yeah, it was like

325
00:20:08,910 --> 00:20:16,320
that. It was really, really
good. So, you know. And I think

326
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:20,850
that, like hope is my hope that
this is a little bit of a wake

327
00:20:20,850 --> 00:20:24,390
up call even for. So there's no
just talking about Todd from

328
00:20:24,390 --> 00:20:28,020
blueberry and Rob from Lipson. I
mean, do they realize what's

329
00:20:28,020 --> 00:20:31,830
going on? I mean, Apple is
getting into hosting. And I, and

330
00:20:31,830 --> 00:20:34,950
I don't think, at least not when
I, when they recorded that show,

331
00:20:34,950 --> 00:20:38,460
I don't believe that they
really, that that really dawned

332
00:20:38,460 --> 00:20:41,940
on them. Now, I don't think it
matters. And maybe we move on to

333
00:20:41,940 --> 00:20:45,270
that part of the of the topic
here. And before we talk about

334
00:20:45,270 --> 00:20:50,010
the index, specifically. There's
a lot of talk, and a lot of that

335
00:20:50,490 --> 00:20:53,760
was not represented in any of
these conversations is the

336
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:59,040
listener. I mean, I hear
podcasters and, you know,

337
00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:02,640
analysts like everyone saying,
well, Apple will own the

338
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:07,050
listener, and you won't own the
listener. And that is such an

339
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:12,060
arrogant thought. And I say this
after, you know, being here from

340
00:21:12,180 --> 00:21:16,140
ground zero, you don't own
anything, even if you have their

341
00:21:16,170 --> 00:21:20,700
email addresses and their you
don't own jack shit. You don't

342
00:21:20,730 --> 00:21:23,640
own the listener and get your
head out of your ass thinking

343
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:27,690
about that the listener
literally owns you. They

344
00:21:27,690 --> 00:21:30,660
determine and and that goes for
podcasters as well as for

345
00:21:30,660 --> 00:21:35,310
podcast apps, that it's you
know, I just so I just have to

346
00:21:35,310 --> 00:21:38,640
say off the bat, I feel like
we're talking very coy Lee,

347
00:21:38,970 --> 00:21:44,070
about cus about our listeners,
our customers, how they behave

348
00:21:44,070 --> 00:21:48,870
what we expect them to do. I
don't know. I mean, I would hope

349
00:21:48,870 --> 00:21:57,300
that Apple did some research on
the concept of subscription pay

350
00:21:57,300 --> 00:22:02,010
for feeds that only are on one
platform. Because, you know,

351
00:22:02,010 --> 00:22:05,760
today Spotify announced that
it's actually a leak, but it was

352
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,820
reported by the Wall Street
Journal, Spotify is going to do

353
00:22:08,820 --> 00:22:12,360
their subscription service and
they won't have the apple tax.

354
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:17,460
Yeah, yeah. So so now they're
just competing on price. And not

355
00:22:17,460 --> 00:22:21,870
even on features or what it
means because the Patreon model

356
00:22:21,870 --> 00:22:27,480
I know a lot of people like
Patreon, just for the the levels

357
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:31,860
of support. And I don't know how
big the private feed business

358
00:22:31,860 --> 00:22:35,280
really is. And I can see many
instances, for instance, I could

359
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:41,490
see Andrew Horowitz, that if he
had some actual stock tips paid

360
00:22:41,490 --> 00:22:45,720
off, then I could see that being
a you know, easily a $99 a month

361
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:50,910
subscription. And you know, that
kind of informed information

362
00:22:51,210 --> 00:22:57,240
that people want to have. If
you're doing a subscription for

363
00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:02,970
pay show, what the fuck are you
giving away for free? What shit

364
00:23:02,970 --> 00:23:07,980
Are you giving away, then people
are not stupid. So you know, you

365
00:23:08,010 --> 00:23:11,850
and you're wasting your time in
my in my opinion, you're wasting

366
00:23:11,850 --> 00:23:17,190
your time on one or the other
product. And along with that

367
00:23:17,190 --> 00:23:21,270
comes speaking of owning the
customer, the customer complaint

368
00:23:21,270 --> 00:23:24,510
can has a complaint department.
And it's going to be a very

369
00:23:24,510 --> 00:23:29,850
simple process. I subscribed I
expect 24 shows a year I only

370
00:23:29,850 --> 00:23:34,470
got 22 boom charge back you're
done. Care. True, you're going

371
00:23:34,470 --> 00:23:38,250
to be the center podcasters will
be slaves of their own making.

372
00:23:39,570 --> 00:23:40,200
Okay, so

373
00:23:40,230 --> 00:23:43,290
if you get too many chargebacks
Apple is gonna kick you out.

374
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:47,430
That's, that's another that's
another thing about this is,

375
00:23:48,270 --> 00:23:53,190
guys. It's like we hear it's
like there's this collective

376
00:23:53,190 --> 00:23:58,290
amnesia that happens, where
everybody just forgets things

377
00:23:58,290 --> 00:24:02,160
that that were just precious and
present in your mind, like, like

378
00:24:02,190 --> 00:24:08,010
a month ago. What? Did we all
just forget that people are now

379
00:24:08,010 --> 00:24:12,150
beginning to leave YouTube in
these places, and start their

380
00:24:12,150 --> 00:24:15,000
own websites and bring their
video and all that content in

381
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:19,260
house? Yes. Yes. of all these
monetization issues. Yes.

382
00:24:19,470 --> 00:24:23,550
And that's a no, no, it's that's
not it. It is the spell of Apple

383
00:24:23,580 --> 00:24:27,630
Apple spell is better than black
lives matter. They are so good

384
00:24:27,630 --> 00:24:30,750
at casting spells on people. And
they've done it again.

385
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:38,550
Yeah. You have. Okay. So you
have that you have Apple which

386
00:24:38,550 --> 00:24:42,960
just announced in the App Store,
their app store policies that

387
00:24:43,140 --> 00:24:48,570
they are going to in their, in
their wording. They're going to

388
00:24:48,570 --> 00:24:53,280
try to address the scammy apps
problem. And so one of the ways

389
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,710
that they're going to do it is
they announced that they were

390
00:24:55,710 --> 00:25:02,790
going to start reviewing pricing
for apps If you have an app that

391
00:25:02,790 --> 00:25:06,690
seems like it's priced out of
line with what it's what it

392
00:25:06,690 --> 00:25:11,430
should be worth, then you're
going to get flagged. So if you

393
00:25:11,430 --> 00:25:14,310
know you have some little dinky
app that you're charging $99,

394
00:25:14,310 --> 00:25:17,010
for, they're going to they're
going to contact you and people

395
00:25:17,010 --> 00:25:20,820
have gotten contacted, apps that
have been on the store for years

396
00:25:20,850 --> 00:25:24,060
at a certain price have gotten
contacted by Apple and said, Are

397
00:25:24,060 --> 00:25:26,460
you sure this is worth this much
money? Because this looks this

398
00:25:26,460 --> 00:25:30,900
seems odd to us? And do you not
think that that exact same thing

399
00:25:30,900 --> 00:25:33,570
is also going to happen in the
app store? He was played off,

400
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,210
excuse me in the in the
subscription world, he was

401
00:25:36,210 --> 00:25:39,270
played off as if, oh, this is
great, because you can set your

402
00:25:39,270 --> 00:25:45,270
own price. But you have to
imagine that Apple's gonna have

403
00:25:45,510 --> 00:25:48,630
to have something to say about
that. If you say, if you go in

404
00:25:48,630 --> 00:25:51,660
there, and you're like, man, my
podcast is killer. You know,

405
00:25:51,690 --> 00:25:53,400
that's, that's $100 a month.

406
00:25:53,429 --> 00:25:57,269
No, no, I know, you just gave me
an idea. I'll wait until the

407
00:25:57,269 --> 00:26:02,669
checkbox controversy is over.
But when I just said, no agenda

408
00:26:02,669 --> 00:26:06,839
show with $100,000 a year, let's
see what happens. Can I do that?

409
00:26:06,839 --> 00:26:06,899
I

410
00:26:06,900 --> 00:26:09,330
mean, I think that's 30 day free
trial.

411
00:26:09,360 --> 00:26:14,220
Yeah. No, no free trial,
$100,000, boom, you could pay an

412
00:26:14,220 --> 00:26:16,440
increment. I know, I'll do the
shows. So

413
00:26:18,330 --> 00:26:21,720
this, like, okay,

414
00:26:21,750 --> 00:26:25,140
and by the way, I guarantee you,
there's at least one person out

415
00:26:25,140 --> 00:26:28,590
there who will subscribe, it
would be worth it just to see if

416
00:26:28,590 --> 00:26:32,400
they paid. Well, and you know,
there's all kinds of I'm not

417
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,710
sure how that works. You know,
I'm sure you if so what if i

418
00:26:34,710 --> 00:26:37,470
subscribe and I and I'm sick of
it. Can I cancel?

419
00:26:39,330 --> 00:26:44,280
Then I get I got no clue. I
didn't include any of that. So

420
00:26:45,270 --> 00:26:54,060
to me, all of this description
stuff. I mean, whatever. I just

421
00:26:54,060 --> 00:26:58,860
don't know, well, I think it
will be mildly successful with

422
00:26:58,860 --> 00:27:01,710
people who already wanted to do
something like that to begin

423
00:27:01,710 --> 00:27:06,180
with. But for smaller shows.
It's just not it's just you,

424
00:27:06,300 --> 00:27:09,150
it's just gonna be this seems
like more of a thing to just

425
00:27:09,150 --> 00:27:13,260
benefit. This is essentially the
wall. This is the same as the

426
00:27:13,260 --> 00:27:15,780
Wall Street Journal putting
they're putting their online

427
00:27:15,780 --> 00:27:18,420
newspaper behind a paywall.
You're just gonna have, you

428
00:27:18,420 --> 00:27:21,300
know, some of these big players
like luminary and all these

429
00:27:21,300 --> 00:27:23,970
guys, they're just gonna do the
same thing on Apple, and nothing

430
00:27:23,970 --> 00:27:26,400
changed. It's going to be like
this sideways shift. And I'm

431
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,620
going to give you a different
take, which is arrogant, but I

432
00:27:28,620 --> 00:27:36,420
think it's possible. Okay. I
think that that's outside of

433
00:27:36,420 --> 00:27:40,410
Spotify. But people are paying
attention to what we're doing.

434
00:27:40,950 --> 00:27:45,300
And everybody kind of had plans
like, Yeah, when the day comes,

435
00:27:45,300 --> 00:27:47,550
when we're ready, we'll just
capture all that shit, we'll get

436
00:27:47,550 --> 00:27:53,070
rid of that RSS is so annoying.
API's are better. You know, we

437
00:27:53,070 --> 00:27:54,990
can bring that in house. We just
have to we have to have the

438
00:27:54,990 --> 00:27:58,440
right things in place. I think a
lot of these companies have been

439
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,160
looking at the independent to
first of all the success of

440
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,970
podcasting in general. I don't
think anyone's fooled by that.

441
00:28:05,970 --> 00:28:09,420
This is some big advertising
Bonanza for them. It's really

442
00:28:09,450 --> 00:28:15,300
rounding errors podcasting, and
it's certainly not high,

443
00:28:15,390 --> 00:28:19,170
certainly not a level
advertisers who on podcasts in

444
00:28:19,170 --> 00:28:23,010
general, generalizing, I think
that people are looking at at

445
00:28:23,010 --> 00:28:26,310
what we're doing is certainly
Spotify is. That's the guy who

446
00:28:26,310 --> 00:28:29,790
wrote this. Who wrote that
medium article.

447
00:28:30,180 --> 00:28:31,230
Oh, yeah,

448
00:28:31,260 --> 00:28:31,770
basically,

449
00:28:31,890 --> 00:28:33,180
what you mean George Orwell?
Yeah,

450
00:28:33,210 --> 00:28:37,020
yeah, exactly. Orwell over there
at Spotify. Who said, Well, you

451
00:28:37,020 --> 00:28:39,630
know, RSS is antiquated and we
could use it when you want to

452
00:28:39,630 --> 00:28:42,510
cool things. And it's, you know,
it's such hogwash. And that is

453
00:28:42,510 --> 00:28:46,800
true fake news, disinformation,
that everyone's kind of

454
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:51,240
scrambling, everyone thinks that
they can capture it. And they

455
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:56,160
can't in and I'm delighted at
what has happened. Because now

456
00:28:56,160 --> 00:29:00,600
we have all of these we have the
big we have the fangs are out.

457
00:29:00,810 --> 00:29:05,610
We've got Facebook, Apple. Not
sure what Microsoft is doing.

458
00:29:05,610 --> 00:29:07,890
I'm sure they're planning
something as well. You know,

459
00:29:07,890 --> 00:29:11,880
we've got Amazon. We've got
Google podcasts, we've got

460
00:29:12,990 --> 00:29:16,530
Spotify, we've got these
subscriptions, all of this

461
00:29:16,530 --> 00:29:22,740
stuff. And RSS is just going to
keep on truckin. And yet, what

462
00:29:22,740 --> 00:29:27,930
we've seen is the arrogance of
the tech companies, towards

463
00:29:27,930 --> 00:29:32,730
developers. And by the way, they
don't care about you. They never

464
00:29:32,730 --> 00:29:36,630
have they do not care. They will
steal your code, steal your

465
00:29:36,630 --> 00:29:40,260
ideas. Apple is the number one
company for doing this.

466
00:29:40,380 --> 00:29:43,500
Everybody knows this shirt. They
invented the term Sherlock.

467
00:29:43,830 --> 00:29:49,650
Exactly. That so they that's
what they do. And then they

468
00:29:49,650 --> 00:29:52,650
patent it and do all kinds of
weird stuff and make it

469
00:29:52,650 --> 00:30:01,170
complicated and that's the game
but you cannot it's like The we

470
00:30:01,170 --> 00:30:05,610
already saw this fail with
advertising ploy out of the gate

471
00:30:05,610 --> 00:30:08,700
for Spotify, they had to open up
shows they had to, they had to

472
00:30:08,700 --> 00:30:11,280
make it available on more apps,
because that's just where the

473
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:15,390
audience is. No audience will be
completely satisfied with any

474
00:30:15,390 --> 00:30:19,020
app. Everybody has a different
vibe, different reasons,

475
00:30:19,020 --> 00:30:23,610
different features. And just,
you know, different look and

476
00:30:23,610 --> 00:30:26,880
feel all these things matter to
people. It's like, it's like,

477
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:31,680
give your car, you know,
everyone's got one. Some people

478
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,920
like a different type of car. So
you're not going to be able to

479
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:39,600
destroy that. And I think if we
done this by strategy, I'd say

480
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,110
divide and conquer is working
out fantastically. Because

481
00:30:43,110 --> 00:30:44,910
that's where we are. I've got

482
00:30:44,940 --> 00:30:49,110
I've got thoughts about this.
The so I'm listening to pod land

483
00:30:49,110 --> 00:30:50,580
yesterday, like I do, I usually

484
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:53,580
did at least 3000 SATs.

485
00:30:53,940 --> 00:30:54,720
Oh, yeah, me too.

486
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,660
Until James Kirtland said
discourse instead of discord.

487
00:30:57,690 --> 00:30:59,640
Then I want to take it back.

488
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:06,120
No, suit, you know, you get to
Narnia by going through the back

489
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,180
of the wardrobe and your credit
and the crazy uncle's mansion.

490
00:31:09,210 --> 00:31:13,740
That's right, you get to pod
land. But jumping into James

491
00:31:13,740 --> 00:31:18,960
Cridland, dirty clothes, hamper
his way to the bottom? And then

492
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:20,010
it puts you out in the park?

493
00:31:20,310 --> 00:31:24,270
Can I just say Can I just say as
an aside, I love our community

494
00:31:24,270 --> 00:31:27,930
so much. Because, you know, we
see we don't see eye to eye with

495
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,680
everybody each other on many
different levels. Some just

496
00:31:31,740 --> 00:31:36,030
lifestyle, some political is
all. But the code, you know,

497
00:31:36,030 --> 00:31:38,550
it's like it comes down to it.
We're all doing we're all here

498
00:31:38,550 --> 00:31:42,960
for the same mission. And we can
we can like each other or not,

499
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,170
we can mess with each other. We
can make jokes. But what matters

500
00:31:46,170 --> 00:31:50,280
is what is what the code that's
created, and the functionality

501
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,130
that we're enabling for the
world. I mean that I love that

502
00:31:53,130 --> 00:31:54,240
about what we're doing.

503
00:31:54,630 --> 00:31:57,750
Yeah, it's such a beautiful
libertarian community. I did

504
00:31:57,810 --> 00:32:01,200
that. And I was listening, but
he was talking about Feedburner.

505
00:32:01,470 --> 00:32:04,440
And he was, you know, I can't
believe that Google is like

506
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:08,970
resor his sin is sort of
resurrecting and resto modding

507
00:32:08,970 --> 00:32:13,890
Feedburner. In thinking about
that last night, and then it hit

508
00:32:13,890 --> 00:32:16,590
me that I couldn't sleep very
much last night, I just had so

509
00:32:16,590 --> 00:32:16,890
much I've

510
00:32:16,890 --> 00:32:20,190
had the same day, five hours
night Max, I keep waking up in

511
00:32:20,190 --> 00:32:22,500
my head spinning. I'm just
thinking in turn.

512
00:32:22,950 --> 00:32:25,680
Same here. And and this was
long, about two o'clock in the

513
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:34,410
morning, it just hit me. I was
like, okay, RSS. We have the

514
00:32:34,410 --> 00:32:39,480
ecosystem that we described with
with Apple, Spotify, the silos.

515
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:50,490
RSS. RSS is how the rebels fight
back. RSS is is is freedom. And

516
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:56,790
Google. I think they understand
that they can there's no way

517
00:32:56,820 --> 00:33:00,870
they're too far behind in the
podcast space. They're not going

518
00:33:00,870 --> 00:33:03,840
to their I don't think they're
they don't have any plans to do

519
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,230
any kind of subscription thing.
I think their resurrection of

520
00:33:07,260 --> 00:33:12,570
Feedburner is an attempt is
their response to Apple and

521
00:33:12,570 --> 00:33:16,620
Spotify doing subscriptions.
There, I think they are going to

522
00:33:16,620 --> 00:33:20,010
try to compete in the podcasting
space through some version

523
00:33:21,330 --> 00:33:26,100
that I was thinking about that
because there's otherwise this

524
00:33:26,100 --> 00:33:27,630
makes no sense.

525
00:33:29,190 --> 00:33:33,600
So let's expand on subversion.
What do you think? So when I

526
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,680
read that, my first take was,
oh, they're going into the

527
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,490
hosting business. That was my
that was my first takes like,

528
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,940
oh, you're going to add
enclosures. You're going to have

529
00:33:44,940 --> 00:33:47,430
people help people manage that
you're going to get them

530
00:33:47,430 --> 00:33:48,780
statistics. Hello.

531
00:33:50,100 --> 00:33:52,470
It's possible but say they
already do all that with

532
00:33:52,470 --> 00:33:54,750
Feedburner. They just don't host
the con they just don't know

533
00:33:54,750 --> 00:33:56,730
hosting enclosures, but

534
00:33:56,879 --> 00:34:01,079
I don't it's a big deal. The
enclosure the hosting is a big

535
00:34:01,079 --> 00:34:01,469
deal.

536
00:34:01,649 --> 00:34:03,809
No Sure. Yeah. No, you're
absolutely you're absolutely

537
00:34:03,809 --> 00:34:07,649
right. But then they have to act
like a podcast host and I'm just

538
00:34:07,649 --> 00:34:11,039
don't know that they get that
and to me it feels more like

539
00:34:11,489 --> 00:34:18,089
they are resurrecting that to
say this is Oh, open podcasting

540
00:34:18,449 --> 00:34:22,619
is still here because they get
there. They get their feeds the

541
00:34:22,619 --> 00:34:26,849
same way that we get our feeds,
which is they crawl for them.

542
00:34:27,179 --> 00:34:30,239
Christopher Christopher isane is
out there crawling for feeds all

543
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,059
the time. We're taking feed
people are emailing us batches

544
00:34:33,059 --> 00:34:36,509
of feed. Basically they they
spider forum, they crawl forum,

545
00:34:36,509 --> 00:34:44,489
we do the same. Nobody goes on
to nobody. They don't have a

546
00:34:44,489 --> 00:34:48,659
direct pipeline, like apple and
Spotify do. They've got sort of

547
00:34:48,659 --> 00:34:51,089
this secondary pop up I know you
can submit to and that's not

548
00:34:51,089 --> 00:34:55,379
what I'm saying. What I'm saying
is they don't have that cachet

549
00:34:55,559 --> 00:34:59,579
in house like house brand name
is associated with podcasting.

550
00:34:59,819 --> 00:35:05,099
So They just pick them up off
the periphery mostly. And so to

551
00:35:05,099 --> 00:35:12,929
me, they are perfectly suited to
drive RSS as, as basically Bonin

552
00:35:12,929 --> 00:35:17,429
in no way, just like they do the
open web, you know, like they

553
00:35:17,459 --> 00:35:21,749
they are in spite of them. And
I'm no Google fan. But in spite

554
00:35:21,779 --> 00:35:27,599
of all of the crappy things they
do, their core business still

555
00:35:27,689 --> 00:35:33,209
depends on the open web
existing. It depends on a

556
00:35:33,509 --> 00:35:37,379
humongous network of
decentralized independent

557
00:35:37,379 --> 00:35:42,179
websites, they can search and
crawl, and also then pay them

558
00:35:42,179 --> 00:35:46,619
money to advertise to be found.
They can do the same thing with

559
00:35:46,619 --> 00:35:51,599
RSS, they crawl it all. And then
they'll put in some sort of

560
00:35:52,109 --> 00:35:55,139
advertise, they'll just bake
that into the same thing they

561
00:35:55,139 --> 00:36:01,109
already do. In that's the way
they compete in that market. And

562
00:36:01,109 --> 00:36:07,469
it weakens Apple, and Spotify by
strengthening the openness of

563
00:36:07,469 --> 00:36:12,869
that thing. To me that that's,
that's what the whole Feedburner

564
00:36:12,869 --> 00:36:18,029
thing is about and and I hope
that's true. Because, like our

565
00:36:18,029 --> 00:36:21,869
show, take, you know, this, this
show right here, is not listed

566
00:36:21,869 --> 00:36:24,359
in Apple, it's not listed in
Spotify. No, I went through last

567
00:36:24,359 --> 00:36:26,969
night, and I tried to, I went
through every podcast app, and

568
00:36:26,969 --> 00:36:29,609
I've got about 10 of them on my
phone. And I searched for

569
00:36:29,609 --> 00:36:33,929
podcasting 2.0 in every one of
them. The only one it showed up

570
00:36:33,929 --> 00:36:38,339
in was pocket gas. It didn't
show up in any other app,

571
00:36:38,489 --> 00:36:43,949
because most of the apps depend
on on Apple and their API, and

572
00:36:43,949 --> 00:36:48,869
we're not listed with Apple and
never will be. And so that tells

573
00:36:48,869 --> 00:36:55,529
me that the open RSS ecosystem,
RSS is not just some markup

574
00:36:55,529 --> 00:36:59,729
language. RSS is it's an
animal's a

575
00:36:59,730 --> 00:37:02,370
breed, isn't it? It's a living
breathing thing.

576
00:37:02,790 --> 00:37:07,860
It's freedom is what it is. It's
it's just having an RSS feed is

577
00:37:07,860 --> 00:37:10,170
no different than having your
own website.

578
00:37:10,230 --> 00:37:13,710
It's funny. That's what mo no.
Mo thermofax. With Adam Curry.

579
00:37:13,710 --> 00:37:16,620
He said the same thing when I
when I showed him the value

580
00:37:16,620 --> 00:37:20,940
block and everything. He said,
Oh, so really your RSS feed is

581
00:37:20,940 --> 00:37:23,970
your whole life. That's
everything. Yeah, I see. Yeah.

582
00:37:23,970 --> 00:37:27,330
And that that, I would say is
the original Dave Winer vision

583
00:37:27,330 --> 00:37:32,760
to and you and you just hit you
haven't domain name. You have

584
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,690
your RSS feed? That's it.
There's no step three.

585
00:37:38,310 --> 00:37:45,180
in you, you have what we're
missing in in that. And I'll

586
00:37:45,180 --> 00:37:49,740
probably say this is in our sort
of mission statements. You know,

587
00:37:49,740 --> 00:37:52,620
we have preferred the preserve
of podcasting and freedom of

588
00:37:52,620 --> 00:37:57,270
speech and converted to a
platform of value. There's

589
00:37:57,300 --> 00:38:00,420
there's an, there's an implied
statement mission statement in

590
00:38:00,420 --> 00:38:04,950
there, too. It's not spoken, but
it's implied. Is that to

591
00:38:05,010 --> 00:38:09,270
preserve the open nature of the
podcasting ecosystem, yes.

592
00:38:09,660 --> 00:38:12,360
Because that you can't do the
other two unless you do that

593
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:14,550
when it's sort of like a silent,
what do you call it like a

594
00:38:14,550 --> 00:38:20,970
hidden premise. And to do like
to do that, I think the thing

595
00:38:20,970 --> 00:38:24,900
that is missing is more on
ramps, like and I'm going to

596
00:38:24,900 --> 00:38:27,450
call out, I'm going to call that
bus route here. I love bus

597
00:38:27,450 --> 00:38:31,950
route. I love those guys. But
they tweeted out the other day,

598
00:38:32,820 --> 00:38:37,650
how to a guide on how to get
listed in all of the biggest

599
00:38:37,650 --> 00:38:42,060
directories. podcasts index was
not on there. Yeah. Well, the

600
00:38:42,060 --> 00:38:45,540
biggest were the biggest podcast
directory on the internet. And

601
00:38:45,540 --> 00:38:49,050
they did not they didn't list
us. So they're telling their

602
00:38:49,050 --> 00:38:51,120
cousin they're not telling their
customers

603
00:38:51,510 --> 00:38:54,300
about freedom about this little
freedom thing that can offer

604
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:58,650
Yeah, yeah. And so that and I've
seen that, you know, seen that

605
00:38:58,650 --> 00:38:59,160
with other hosts,

606
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,500
you know, and I think those
things are just oversight.

607
00:39:02,940 --> 00:39:05,490
Because you have your template
it's the same what irks me is

608
00:39:05,490 --> 00:39:09,600
the players you know, I got a I
got a solicitation email today

609
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:17,940
from pod dot link and pod dot
link. You know, they're like,

610
00:39:18,780 --> 00:39:21,720
hey, Nathan is on our PC.
They're using our service now.

611
00:39:22,380 --> 00:39:22,860
They think

612
00:39:23,250 --> 00:39:26,940
Are you sure on that link? I
don't think so.

613
00:39:27,690 --> 00:39:30,360
Yeah, I think they're the ones
that just got just got bought

614
00:39:30,780 --> 00:39:32,400
parts pad sites

615
00:39:32,430 --> 00:39:36,240
because I you can't I don't
think you can find podcasting

616
00:39:36,240 --> 00:39:41,700
2.0 on their name.

617
00:39:42,930 --> 00:39:44,190
No, it wasn't a no service.

618
00:39:44,220 --> 00:39:50,100
Nope. Told you not there.
Anyway, I got I got a an

619
00:39:50,100 --> 00:39:55,680
invitation to I guess claim my
show.

620
00:39:55,710 --> 00:40:00,300
No, no, no, no, that's that's
that's him pod. Yeah. How'd that

621
00:40:00,300 --> 00:40:00,930
LinkedIn go

622
00:40:00,930 --> 00:40:03,840
search, go search for podcasting
2.0, it doesn't show up.

623
00:40:04,410 --> 00:40:06,990
Really. Mm hmm. And then we'll
know where he's getting this

624
00:40:06,990 --> 00:40:09,210
search from there. Because he's
not using our search, he must be

625
00:40:09,210 --> 00:40:11,280
using our API, but not the
search function.

626
00:40:12,030 --> 00:40:15,690
So then you go to I go to the no
agenda page, and it says,

627
00:40:15,720 --> 00:40:20,790
available on. And it's funny,
because there's a link to it,

628
00:40:20,790 --> 00:40:24,720
right? There's a link to Apple
next to it as Spotify. Let me

629
00:40:24,720 --> 00:40:29,520
click on that, because we're not
on Spotify, we better not be the

630
00:40:29,550 --> 00:40:34,470
indeed, we're not on Spotify. So
it just has an empty page. Then

631
00:40:34,470 --> 00:40:42,480
there's Google overcast,
Stitcher cast, box, Castro,

632
00:40:43,290 --> 00:40:50,970
podcast addict, radio, public
breaker, player, FM, I Heart

633
00:40:50,970 --> 00:40:55,440
Radio, pocket cast, and then the
raw RSS, which of course, has a

634
00:40:55,440 --> 00:41:01,800
link to they basically, let me
see, now there's a redirect to

635
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:06,060
the field. So they're missing a
lot of great podcast apps. And

636
00:41:06,060 --> 00:41:10,740
this is where it gets
interesting. Because since

637
00:41:10,740 --> 00:41:13,410
there's no price to compete
with, we compete on features,

638
00:41:13,740 --> 00:41:17,040
and the features that the
podcast namespace has the

639
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,580
features that our apps have, as
people start to understand,

640
00:41:20,970 --> 00:41:25,020
reasons why you should at least
be listed in the podcast index,

641
00:41:25,290 --> 00:41:29,400
and maybe even start to author
for the features that are

642
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:32,280
available and send your
listeners or suggest that your

643
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,160
listeners check out some of
these apps new podcast apps

644
00:41:35,190 --> 00:42:10,170
calm. Instead of instead of
helping out they're not, that's

645
00:42:10,170 --> 00:42:11,970
my that's my bottom line. So,

646
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:12,570
you know,

647
00:42:12,900 --> 00:42:15,690
I think it's just an awareness
issue. You have this page of

648
00:42:15,690 --> 00:42:19,650
players and you never add to it,
it's just add the player block.

649
00:42:20,220 --> 00:42:22,860
And we all know how it goes. So
it's a little wake up call.

650
00:42:23,010 --> 00:42:24,240
There's other stuff out there.

651
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:29,580
I'm trying to not, you know, I'm
kind of passionate about this.

652
00:42:29,670 --> 00:42:34,350
And I'm, and I know that people
are cuz, because the one thing I

653
00:42:34,350 --> 00:42:38,520
want to say is I really
appreciate everybody. Many

654
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:42,630
people reached out and oh, my
goodness, it was honestly, a lot

655
00:42:42,630 --> 00:42:47,760
of a lot of slack yet.
buzzsprout reached out RSS comm

656
00:42:48,030 --> 00:42:50,610
a lot of people reached out to
see if we needed any mini money,

657
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:54,300
any money or help or anything
like that, like that. So I mean,

658
00:42:54,330 --> 00:42:58,920
those guys care. It's just that.
I like you. I think you said the

659
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:03,870
spell. It's the podcast industry
is under a spell. And the spell

660
00:43:03,870 --> 00:43:11,340
is Apple. Yep. And, and now
Spotify. And that if we really

661
00:43:11,340 --> 00:43:16,710
want if if podcasting is going
to maintain its openness, if

662
00:43:16,710 --> 00:43:21,960
it's going to continue to exist
as an open medium, you have to

663
00:43:22,170 --> 00:43:25,950
break the spell and get out of
the and that doesn't. And I want

664
00:43:25,950 --> 00:43:29,340
to be clear, that does not mean
you have to come use our API,

665
00:43:29,490 --> 00:43:32,280
because literally like, you
know, people have been, you

666
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:34,230
know, I've heard people say,
well, y'all must be really

667
00:43:34,230 --> 00:43:38,460
excited that everybody's using
your API now that as a backstop.

668
00:43:38,460 --> 00:43:41,970
Now that Apple is broken, it's
like, well, I mean, it's nice,

669
00:43:41,970 --> 00:43:44,490
but we don't get paid for this.
I mean, it's not like we have,

670
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,550
you know, 100 more paying
customers now, no, we just have

671
00:43:47,550 --> 00:43:50,790
10 times the bandwidth. So, I
mean, like, it actually got

672
00:43:50,790 --> 00:43:55,740
harder. It's not exactly a fun,
a fun time to be had. But what

673
00:43:55,890 --> 00:43:59,850
one thing that we do offer that
may be just as important as the

674
00:43:59,850 --> 00:44:03,450
API itself, is we have our
entire index feed database down

675
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:08,160
downloadable for free, yeah. And
so anybody could then pick that

676
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,740
up, and stick that in their
service. And now they don't have

677
00:44:10,740 --> 00:44:14,280
to have Apple anymore. That and
that can take literally 30

678
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:18,300
minutes to do and that's the
kind of stuff I'm talking about,

679
00:44:18,300 --> 00:44:25,080
like break the spell, and in
begin to participate and bolster

680
00:44:25,290 --> 00:44:29,280
the open ecosystem. All we need
is more on ramps, and that's why

681
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:31,260
I brought that's why I brought
up the fact that we were missing

682
00:44:31,260 --> 00:44:33,480
from some of those guides that
were being put out about how to

683
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:37,200
get your stuff self listed in in
the big in big internet

684
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:43,020
directories. Like we need more
on ramps into this thing. What

685
00:44:43,530 --> 00:44:47,160
and we're you know, I've got
this new idea for the piping

686
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:50,580
service not that kind of thing.
Hope maybe that will help. But

687
00:44:50,940 --> 00:44:54,180
really we need hosting company.
Here's, I think that I think

688
00:44:54,180 --> 00:44:58,980
this goes two ways. I'm
convinced with this. I think

689
00:44:58,980 --> 00:45:02,670
number one Get we need more
onramps from the hosting

690
00:45:02,670 --> 00:45:08,760
companies, not just to us. But
to all of the open directories

691
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:13,500
there's us there's blueberry
hosting Open Directory. AKA

692
00:45:13,500 --> 00:45:18,750
there's at least one more the
cert the apps themselves

693
00:45:18,780 --> 00:45:23,610
overcast, has a full directory,
podcast addict seems to have a

694
00:45:23,610 --> 00:45:26,820
full directory, there's there's
a few different open directories

695
00:45:26,820 --> 00:45:29,580
around and I'm at a moment open
that they have an API just mean

696
00:45:29,580 --> 00:45:33,420
open that they collect these
things, more on ramps into the

697
00:45:33,450 --> 00:45:39,480
open directories. In number two,
they I think, not just not just

698
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:43,890
the hosts, but also podcasters
themselves that care about these

699
00:45:43,890 --> 00:45:48,870
things, need to start asking
their their listeners to use

700
00:45:48,870 --> 00:45:55,320
different apps. Like so if
you're a big podcast, to just

701
00:45:55,320 --> 00:46:01,560
ask your listeners say, Hey,
have you ever tried out overcast

702
00:46:01,860 --> 00:46:08,790
podcast adding pod friend, pod
verse, hyper catcher, downcast,

703
00:46:09,060 --> 00:46:14,850
all of the indie apps out there,
the podcasters themselves, they

704
00:46:14,850 --> 00:46:18,810
care about the open ecosystem
can make it a point to in their

705
00:46:18,810 --> 00:46:23,100
podcast all the time, ask their
listeners to use something other

706
00:46:23,100 --> 00:46:27,150
than Spotify and Apple podcast
app. Because that's the that's

707
00:46:27,150 --> 00:46:30,450
the that's the thing that we get
told all the time, is that the

708
00:46:30,450 --> 00:46:34,980
reason that Apple is so dominant
in this space is because well,

709
00:46:35,010 --> 00:46:39,720
they have 65% of the app market.
That could change very quickly.

710
00:46:40,110 --> 00:46:43,710
If podcasters asked their
audience to go try out some

711
00:46:43,710 --> 00:46:48,840
other app. The other apps are
free or cheap. It's not even it

712
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,690
doesn't even hurt me. And you
know what, once you convert

713
00:46:51,690 --> 00:46:56,310
somebody from Apple podcast to
some other you have

714
00:46:56,910 --> 00:46:59,940
another you set yet another
digital slave free.

715
00:47:00,240 --> 00:47:03,840
Yeah. And they'll never go back
because they're just the apps

716
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:07,410
are just better. The indie app
and the indie podcasting apps

717
00:47:07,410 --> 00:47:08,460
are just better.

718
00:47:08,790 --> 00:47:12,270
Yeah, I mean, I was always an
overcast user until podcasting.

719
00:47:12,270 --> 00:47:16,080
2.0. And I really needed and you
know, had to test the features,

720
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:19,110
you know, the overcast was
definitely, definitely my app of

721
00:47:19,110 --> 00:47:21,870
choice. Now, of course, I'm on
graphene. Oh, so that, that

722
00:47:21,870 --> 00:47:26,190
removes that. But yeah, it's a
spell. And it's the same spell

723
00:47:26,190 --> 00:47:30,330
that podcasting has been under
for 15 years, probably 10. For

724
00:47:30,330 --> 00:47:34,410
sure. The spell that if Apple
doesn't do it, well, then who

725
00:47:34,410 --> 00:47:38,670
cares? It doesn't it didn't
happen. Now that we've

726
00:47:38,670 --> 00:47:41,790
definitely knocked the spell
around, look at all the support

727
00:47:41,790 --> 00:47:44,310
and integration we've gotten
from many of the hosting

728
00:47:44,310 --> 00:47:47,250
companies. But we still don't
have enough tools, authoring

729
00:47:47,250 --> 00:47:50,430
systems, etc. For all these
great new features, even though

730
00:47:50,430 --> 00:47:54,060
there's uptake You know, there's
a lot of uptake transcripts,

731
00:47:54,240 --> 00:47:56,940
there's transcript companies
making more money because of

732
00:47:56,940 --> 00:48:00,120
podcasting. 2.0. Fact. Yeah,
yeah, that's

733
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:00,870
bad.

734
00:48:01,590 --> 00:48:05,340
Yeah, know. So there's, there's,
there's stuff. Yeah, break the

735
00:48:05,340 --> 00:48:09,630
spell, it will happen
eventually. It can. The spell is

736
00:48:09,630 --> 00:48:14,700
real. But so is just the old Art
of War. And it's divide and

737
00:48:14,700 --> 00:48:17,010
conquer, we don't even have to
do it, that they're fighting

738
00:48:17,010 --> 00:48:20,580
amongst themselves. In the old
country, we say Australia home,

739
00:48:20,580 --> 00:48:24,450
the faster faster one being
carton data from door. Which

740
00:48:24,450 --> 00:48:27,330
means when two dogs are fighting
over a bone, a third will walk

741
00:48:27,330 --> 00:48:31,890
away with it. That's nice. And
that's exactly what's what's

742
00:48:31,890 --> 00:48:36,030
going to take place. I mean,
that's obvious. It's so this

743
00:48:36,030 --> 00:48:38,820
will be maybe this will be in
the management books in 20

744
00:48:38,820 --> 00:48:42,990
years. How not to do it. They
won't be that important, again,

745
00:48:42,990 --> 00:48:46,500
to the bottom line of these
companies. But man, what what a

746
00:48:46,500 --> 00:48:49,500
difference freedom makes in
everyone's life.

747
00:48:50,610 --> 00:48:55,290
Yeah. 100% I mean, this this has
been, this has been a quite an

748
00:48:55,290 --> 00:48:58,920
interesting week on so many
levels. I mean, like, if, Bill,

749
00:48:58,950 --> 00:49:03,240
not just not, I mean, not just
technical, philosophical, the

750
00:49:03,240 --> 00:49:07,140
whole thing because it really
does have I feel like the

751
00:49:07,140 --> 00:49:11,280
industry has finally sort of
woken up a little bit and said,

752
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:15,840
you know, that we did have we do
have a very weird, uncomfortable

753
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:19,680
relationship with the largest
company in the world.

754
00:49:21,510 --> 00:49:23,730
It's not an it's not an actual
relationship.

755
00:49:25,260 --> 00:49:27,330
Yeah, it's more like a

756
00:49:28,590 --> 00:49:33,060
we're in Paris. It's like we're,
you know, it's like the typical

757
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:37,770
parasitic relationship, where
you have the cleaner fish to

758
00:49:37,770 --> 00:49:41,040
clean out the teeth of the big
fish. And the big fish doesn't

759
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:44,190
eat them, because it's probably
just easier. Just let him clean,

760
00:49:44,190 --> 00:49:47,910
you know, and eventually, they
say, Oh, this, this is a cleaner

761
00:49:47,910 --> 00:49:50,400
fish. I don't have to bite down
on that one. You know, like, Oh,

762
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:53,460
that's an API request from
independent podcast. app is

763
00:49:53,460 --> 00:49:56,670
fine. We'll just leave that. And
then eventually, one of the two

764
00:49:56,670 --> 00:50:02,820
fucks the other one It's just
nature. It's just how it goes.

765
00:50:03,180 --> 00:50:05,820
All right. So I think enough
about that. I mean, I don't

766
00:50:05,820 --> 00:50:08,820
think there's, there's much more
to say, other than, we're

767
00:50:08,820 --> 00:50:13,410
extremely happy. I am personally
very excited to have overcast

768
00:50:13,410 --> 00:50:19,590
Marco jumping, jump on board who
came bearing gifts, I might add,

769
00:50:19,590 --> 00:50:23,850
he immediately saw one of the
and I don't know all the exact

770
00:50:23,850 --> 00:50:27,600
issues around the iTunes ID, I
know that they're hard to get

771
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:31,200
they're like, like, like the
like the high high valued

772
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:37,020
Pokemons to go into the woods to
go get and shit. So he

773
00:50:37,020 --> 00:50:42,000
immediately jumped in. And he
signed up and even made a nice

774
00:50:42,030 --> 00:50:44,580
donation, which will thank him
for that in our donation

775
00:50:44,580 --> 00:50:49,140
segment, he came right along and
said, here I am. He came

776
00:50:49,140 --> 00:50:52,530
bearing, you know, time, talent
and treasure, you know, the

777
00:50:52,530 --> 00:50:56,940
three things that we need with
with this open source project.

778
00:50:57,330 --> 00:51:01,410
And for him to be contributing
back our missing iTunes IDs is I

779
00:51:01,410 --> 00:51:05,820
mean, what a what a phenomenal
entry into into our world here.

780
00:51:06,420 --> 00:51:09,750
Yeah, that was really helpful.
Because those, you know, we get

781
00:51:10,230 --> 00:51:15,510
a little nilla Tick Tock per
second week, the iTunes, that it

782
00:51:15,510 --> 00:51:20,280
turns the iTunes IDs have always
been relatively easy to get. If

783
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:23,730
you if you've got an ID and you
want the Feed URL, that's an

784
00:51:23,730 --> 00:51:26,940
easy thing to do. If you've got
the Feed URL, and you want to

785
00:51:26,940 --> 00:51:30,870
get the iTunes ID, it's
basically impossible. Yeah. So

786
00:51:31,020 --> 00:51:34,200
we, you know, for a while we
were using, we're using a

787
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:39,600
different API, and we had to, we
had to stop. And then what so

788
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:46,410
what we have been doing in the
index, for all this time now is

789
00:51:47,460 --> 00:51:51,660
we we put the Feed URL in, we
get the Feed URL from some other

790
00:51:51,660 --> 00:51:58,980
source. And then when somebody
does it does a does a call to

791
00:51:58,980 --> 00:52:04,740
the podcast by iTunes ID
endpoint and API. It gets logged

792
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:09,360
in, if it's a miss. If it can't
resolve it, if we don't have

793
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:15,690
that iTunes ID listed. Then what
happens is every night, admit at

794
00:52:15,690 --> 00:52:20,010
midnight, the API servers,
there's two front end API

795
00:52:20,010 --> 00:52:24,660
servers that actually serve the
traffic, each one of them, look

796
00:52:24,660 --> 00:52:29,010
through the logs that grip the
logs and see which iTunes IDs

797
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:35,220
that were requested, did not get
fulfilled. And then they go back

798
00:52:35,670 --> 00:52:42,540
and and do the apple lookup API
to resolve it in reverse. And so

799
00:52:42,540 --> 00:52:45,660
then, then it will make the
linkage between the Feed URL and

800
00:52:45,660 --> 00:52:49,770
the iTunes ID that that's not
that great. It's not

801
00:52:49,770 --> 00:52:50,400
a fast way

802
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:53,640
to do it. No, but it's really
it's kind of rely way to do it.

803
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:57,000
Yeah. It was reliable until this
week, it's kind of

804
00:52:58,410 --> 00:52:59,670
Rube Goldberg II

805
00:53:02,610 --> 00:53:05,700
is janky. But so until this
week, and that's when I first

806
00:53:05,700 --> 00:53:07,860
started noticing something was
wrong with Apple API's. But

807
00:53:07,860 --> 00:53:08,130
right

808
00:53:08,190 --> 00:53:09,510
now, you can't get early on.

809
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:13,500
I get a cron job every day, I
get all the logs emailed to me

810
00:53:13,500 --> 00:53:16,500
each night. And I always forget,
one of the first things I do in

811
00:53:16,500 --> 00:53:20,190
the morning is a look. I'm a
strong believer on the sysadmin

812
00:53:20,190 --> 00:53:23,640
side of you need to walk into
the server room every now and

813
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:24,810
then look at the blinky lights.

814
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:26,460
blinking, right?

815
00:53:27,150 --> 00:53:30,300
Right? Yeah. say, oh, that lies
and you haven't seen that

816
00:53:30,300 --> 00:53:34,080
before? That's bad, you know. So
I get the emails every every

817
00:53:34,110 --> 00:53:37,740
morning, and I look and just
make sure everything looks the

818
00:53:37,740 --> 00:53:42,480
same. And one thing I noticed, I
guess this was maybe roughly

819
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:46,860
Monday, Sunday night, Monday
night, that I got the email the

820
00:53:46,860 --> 00:53:50,190
next morning, and it has the log
of all the iTunes resolutions.

821
00:53:51,060 --> 00:53:58,230
And for the first time, I can
remember the the first like 500

822
00:53:58,230 --> 00:54:01,560
of them were all failures. Wow.
Well, that's,

823
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:06,930
that's a Sunday night database
rollover. in Cupertino.

824
00:54:07,260 --> 00:54:11,280
Yes. And I was like, Oh, that's
strange. And then the next day,

825
00:54:11,310 --> 00:54:15,900
same thing. And so you know that
and then James popped up, his

826
00:54:15,900 --> 00:54:19,590
stuff was acting really wonky,
and things females are starting

827
00:54:19,590 --> 00:54:23,310
to get missing. So the fact that
Marcus showed up with basically

828
00:54:23,340 --> 00:54:30,270
a batch of half a million iTunes
IDs was like hidden treasure. So

829
00:54:30,270 --> 00:54:34,680
those things are about I'm still
importing them. advocate,

830
00:54:34,740 --> 00:54:39,000
Christopher isane is importing.
He's finishing up his import, he

831
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:42,780
has about 30,000 feeds left to
go on his batch of imports. And

832
00:54:42,780 --> 00:54:45,780
then we're importing the iTunes
IDs at the same time. So I'm

833
00:54:45,780 --> 00:54:50,100
hoping that by the end of this,
we'll have like, most of

834
00:54:50,100 --> 00:54:50,970
everything filled,

835
00:54:51,030 --> 00:54:54,660
how important are these iTunes
IDs moving forward? I mean, is

836
00:54:54,660 --> 00:54:57,210
there a conversion at some point
where you're not using that

837
00:54:57,210 --> 00:54:59,820
anymore? Or is that is that
going to stick with us forever?

838
00:55:00,329 --> 00:55:03,389
yet to be determined, really,
because it depends on what Apple

839
00:55:03,389 --> 00:55:07,169
does with this whole thing.
Because like, that's the other

840
00:55:08,549 --> 00:55:12,359
sort of techie stuff that went
on the last few days is the the

841
00:55:12,359 --> 00:55:16,169
iTunes ID endpoints, there's
really two main ones, there's,

842
00:55:16,379 --> 00:55:20,189
you can add a feed to the index
through the Add by iTunes ID, or

843
00:55:20,189 --> 00:55:23,219
you can just check if a feed
exists and get metadata from it.

844
00:55:23,729 --> 00:55:26,909
With the podcast by iTunes ID,
there's also an episode about

845
00:55:26,909 --> 00:55:31,409
iTunes ID. So those three
endpoints, they never really got

846
00:55:31,409 --> 00:55:35,789
used very much. Because most of
the apps that use the index are

847
00:55:35,789 --> 00:55:39,299
using our IDs. So they're
calling they're calling the

848
00:55:39,299 --> 00:55:42,329
buffeted ID and point instead of
the about the iTunes ID

849
00:55:42,359 --> 00:55:45,239
endpoint. But then when all
these flood of the other aspect

850
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:49,649
can come in, they all depend on
that iTunes ID as their sort of

851
00:55:49,709 --> 00:55:53,069
source of truth. So they started
using that. And I started

852
00:55:53,069 --> 00:55:56,339
noticing some weirdness that
that didn't like, there's an

853
00:55:56,339 --> 00:55:59,369
inconsistency in the way things
were being were being handled.

854
00:55:59,609 --> 00:56:03,179
So I beef those up over the last
couple of days and fix some

855
00:56:03,179 --> 00:56:05,549
problems that I didn't really
even realize existed, because

856
00:56:05,549 --> 00:56:08,789
they just didn't get used very
much. So those are better now.

857
00:56:08,789 --> 00:56:14,639
But like going forward, the you
know, if if Apple doesn't fix

858
00:56:14,639 --> 00:56:22,289
this, if it remains just a
basically, a, an unreliable API

859
00:56:22,979 --> 00:56:27,809
to get feed information, then
I'm not really sure what happens

860
00:56:27,809 --> 00:56:31,319
at that point for the apps, it
doesn't affect us at all,

861
00:56:31,319 --> 00:56:35,849
because we never depended on
those anyway. But for the apps

862
00:56:35,849 --> 00:56:38,519
out there that have been
dependent on iTunes IDs for

863
00:56:38,519 --> 00:56:43,829
years and years. If they stop
being able to convert an iTunes

864
00:56:43,829 --> 00:56:48,569
ID into a Feed URL, I'm not
really sure what they do.

865
00:56:49,499 --> 00:56:51,839
They'll have to make a convert,
they'll have to convert

866
00:56:51,839 --> 00:56:52,859
something on their side.

867
00:56:52,950 --> 00:56:57,450
Right. And is that the podcast
index ID? Well, is that an

868
00:56:57,450 --> 00:56:59,700
obvious one? Is that kind of
that too obvious?

869
00:57:00,420 --> 00:57:01,200
And I mean,

870
00:57:02,340 --> 00:57:05,400
you know, I don't know. I mean,
it makes sense. It makes sense.

871
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:08,670
It will, it makes sense. For
this reason, we make our

872
00:57:08,670 --> 00:57:13,950
database free to download. So
there's really no reason not to

873
00:57:13,950 --> 00:57:18,240
use the podcast index ID.
Because everybody can have it

874
00:57:18,510 --> 00:57:22,410
right? In for like, they don't
even have to ask the API for it.

875
00:57:22,650 --> 00:57:25,890
They can download it and just
import it into their database.

876
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:30,720
And so it doesn't really,
there's not a reason not to,

877
00:57:31,170 --> 00:57:33,810
because anything else that you
can think of let's just say if

878
00:57:33,810 --> 00:57:37,050
you hashed the Feed URL, or
tried to come up with some other

879
00:57:37,050 --> 00:57:40,350
ID will mean feed URLs change,
people move host. That's not,

880
00:57:40,710 --> 00:57:45,390
that's not static information.
In it, we just learned that you

881
00:57:45,390 --> 00:57:48,870
can't depend on an API. And I
would say, you came and fully

882
00:57:48,870 --> 00:57:52,230
depend on our API, it's not
guaranteed to be here forever. I

883
00:57:52,230 --> 00:57:55,830
mean, you know, I mean, 25 years
from now, we rip I'm out of

884
00:57:55,830 --> 00:58:00,780
here, either. But we've got the
full database that connects

885
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:06,090
feeds with IDs in that open
downloadable, free database that

886
00:58:06,090 --> 00:58:07,170
should still be around

887
00:58:07,650 --> 00:58:12,300
means Yeah, like, I can run
that, you know, that can run on

888
00:58:12,300 --> 00:58:14,670
its own by itself. It's already
automated. I don't even touch

889
00:58:14,670 --> 00:58:16,410
it. It just generates itself
every week.

890
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:19,710
Now does this bring us
automatically to Hydra and pod

891
00:58:19,710 --> 00:58:22,320
pain? Because I think we do need
a little update on what the hell

892
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:26,340
is going on in your head. It's
funny cuz I showed the drawing

893
00:58:26,340 --> 00:58:29,580
that you posted on the on the
mastodon, I said, Tina said,

894
00:58:29,790 --> 00:58:31,530
hey, what does this look like?
She said, like one of your

895
00:58:31,530 --> 00:58:37,530
drawings. She seen those so many
times boxes connecting to clouds

896
00:58:37,530 --> 00:58:41,730
with little lines and stuff. And
oh, my God, like, Oh, I already

897
00:58:41,730 --> 00:58:42,480
understand it

898
00:58:43,020 --> 00:58:45,660
would be fantastic. If only it
had been in crayon.

899
00:58:47,610 --> 00:58:49,440
On a tablecloth Yeah. Perfect.
Yeah.

900
00:58:49,650 --> 00:58:52,470
Yeah. So I mean, I don't know
how deep we want to get into it.

901
00:58:52,470 --> 00:58:57,030
We could talk about it next
week. But and the the idea is

902
00:58:57,030 --> 00:59:00,540
basically, and I think I talked
about it with Canada Vegas

903
00:59:00,540 --> 00:59:04,800
briefly. I just thought about it
earlier. It The idea is that we

904
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:11,880
would have basically create a
web sub network that's dedicated

905
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:17,100
to nothing but podcast called
podcasting. And because the

906
00:59:17,100 --> 00:59:21,870
problem with web sub is it's
built for sort of pure

907
00:59:21,870 --> 00:59:29,970
decentralization. And it assumes
a world of of an open RSS, like

908
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:35,580
period. But the podcast world of
open RSS is is much, much

909
00:59:35,580 --> 00:59:42,810
smaller. And it's also much more
dependent on time. Right? If I

910
00:59:42,810 --> 00:59:45,030
don't get a blog post for a few
hours, I mean,

911
00:59:45,060 --> 00:59:46,170
nobody cares.

912
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:49,590
Who cares? If you don't get a
podcast episode for a few hours.

913
00:59:49,590 --> 00:59:52,620
It can be really annoying to
freak out time. It is freaking

914
00:59:52,620 --> 00:59:55,590
out. Hey, man, I can't it's not
Can you didn't upload

915
00:59:55,590 --> 00:59:56,940
it to overcast yet?

916
00:59:57,150 --> 00:59:59,190
How many times have I heard
that? Hey, can you upload it to

917
00:59:59,190 --> 01:00:03,300
overcast Not exactly how it
works, by the way, overcast is

918
01:00:03,330 --> 01:00:05,970
one of the ones ones that shows
up very quickly.

919
01:00:06,540 --> 01:00:11,790
So I think the the idea is we're
not great at this either, we

920
01:00:11,790 --> 01:00:15,150
still have podcasts. Because
aggregation and polling is such

921
01:00:15,150 --> 01:00:20,040
a pain in the butt, we still
have podcasts that don't update

922
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:27,360
in a timely manner, right. So
the idea here is basically, I am

923
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:32,400
looking at this as a joint
project between, I'm going to,

924
01:00:32,460 --> 01:00:36,510
I'm going to write a bulk of the
code. But I see this as a joint

925
01:00:36,510 --> 01:00:41,190
product between venture between
us, the hosting companies, in

926
01:00:41,190 --> 01:00:45,600
the apps, and the podcast apps,
that means all of us together,

927
01:00:46,410 --> 01:00:54,000
to, to join into a network where
the hosting companies, all they

928
01:00:54,000 --> 01:01:01,500
have to do is one thing. Anytime
a podcast is created, or

929
01:01:01,590 --> 01:01:07,980
updates, they send a pain to
what the receiving endpoint is

930
01:01:07,980 --> 01:01:15,420
going to be notification dot pod
pain cloud, they just send an

931
01:01:15,420 --> 01:01:19,980
update and say, this bead has
updated in they send the Feed

932
01:01:19,980 --> 01:01:27,480
URL when there will be a network
of servers that can they can all

933
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:33,150
operate independently will run
one hour, my desire would be

934
01:01:33,150 --> 01:01:38,730
that we run one, blueberry run
one, overcast runs one,

935
01:01:38,850 --> 01:01:43,050
basically, anybody with podcast
addict, anybody that has a

936
01:01:43,050 --> 01:01:47,610
directory of podcasts that need
that does this type of polling,

937
01:01:47,970 --> 01:01:50,340
they would run one of these
servers so that they can

938
01:01:50,340 --> 01:01:53,970
immediately get the update.
Yeah, and know to pull the feed,

939
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:59,190
then they just relay that
notification out to a list of

940
01:01:59,190 --> 01:02:02,850
subscribers. And the subscribers
are all the apps, the

941
01:02:02,850 --> 01:02:06,120
subscribers, our podcast addict,
right? pod friend, hyper

942
01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:11,040
catcher, us, anybody who wants
to know about those things, cast

943
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:13,320
down cast pocket, cast box,
whoo, I

944
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:14,970
see another bubble chart coming.

945
01:02:15,780 --> 01:02:19,740
Yeah. And so basically, it's
just, uh, it all originates from

946
01:02:19,740 --> 01:02:22,560
the host, and not just the
hosting companies not so it

947
01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:25,890
would be buzzsprout, blueberry
transistor, captivate fireside,

948
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:36,690
all these guys. And then also,
any independent podcaster can

949
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:40,710
can also send a notification,
like if you run your if like if

950
01:02:40,710 --> 01:02:43,620
you run your podcast on a on a
WordPress, blue power press

951
01:02:43,620 --> 01:02:47,820
website. Anybody can do this.
All you have to do though is

952
01:02:47,820 --> 01:02:53,760
it's it's not open, like web
sub, you need to create a token,

953
01:02:54,060 --> 01:02:56,880
a secure API is sort of like an
API key, you just need to create

954
01:02:56,880 --> 01:03:01,620
a secret. And there's a signup
registration process before the

955
01:03:01,620 --> 01:03:05,730
notification servers will accept
your notification. And then

956
01:03:05,730 --> 01:03:08,640
they'll pass it through to the
other side to the subscribers

957
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:13,560
list. And those subscribers also
have to register. And so the

958
01:03:13,560 --> 01:03:21,120
registration is just to keep all
the shenanigans out. Otherwise,

959
01:03:21,150 --> 01:03:27,420
it's basically just web sub. But
it's it's web sub, with with an

960
01:03:27,420 --> 01:03:30,780
approval only and everybody gets
approved. If you sign up. It's

961
01:03:30,780 --> 01:03:35,610
just not 100% open, like you can
just go to it. Right? You have

962
01:03:35,610 --> 01:03:37,590
to you have to be you have to go
through the registration

963
01:03:37,590 --> 01:03:41,700
process. I think if we do it
that way, is super lightweight.

964
01:03:42,090 --> 01:03:48,090
It's super dependable. You have
the podcast hosts. All they have

965
01:03:48,090 --> 01:03:52,920
to do all they have to do is say
is do a get request to one URL

966
01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:56,100
notification that popping up
cloud with the you Feed URL

967
01:03:56,130 --> 01:03:59,640
anytime a failure anytime a new
podcast is created on their

968
01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:03,450
service or anytime one of their
existing podcasts updates. And

969
01:04:03,450 --> 01:04:08,820
then on the subscriber side,
which is the app side. They all

970
01:04:08,820 --> 01:04:11,940
the anybody who wants to be
notified of of all these

971
01:04:11,940 --> 01:04:19,050
updates. They just go to one DNS
name, which is subscribe dot pod

972
01:04:19,050 --> 01:04:23,580
pink cloud and do a subscription
request. And you don't

973
01:04:23,580 --> 01:04:26,490
subscribe. Like with traditional
web sub you subscribe, you say I

974
01:04:26,490 --> 01:04:29,370
want to subscribe to this feed
and this feed in this feed. No.

975
01:04:29,820 --> 01:04:33,990
When you subscribe, you get it
all get it all the hose Yep, you

976
01:04:33,990 --> 01:04:36,450
get the fire hose because
everything Pat. It's just a pass

977
01:04:36,450 --> 01:04:36,750
through which

978
01:04:36,750 --> 01:04:38,370
is easy, which makes it simple.

979
01:04:39,270 --> 01:04:45,060
You register a callback hook a
web you register a web hook and

980
01:04:46,740 --> 01:04:50,100
and like you know the name the
name of your app. And that's

981
01:04:50,130 --> 01:04:52,290
that's it and then all sudden
you start getting your web hook

982
01:04:52,290 --> 01:04:56,550
starts getting the firehose and
it and it's also it. You only

983
01:04:56,550 --> 01:05:00,900
have to re subscribe every let's
just say seven days. And it's

984
01:05:00,900 --> 01:05:03,990
just a quick resubscribe. And
you still get the hose. And if

985
01:05:03,990 --> 01:05:06,540
you go anytime you want to
unsubscribe, you can unsubscribe

986
01:05:06,900 --> 01:05:14,430
with. The problem is with web
sub, we have almost a million

987
01:05:14,430 --> 01:05:20,370
active web subscriptions, one of
our servers spends all day every

988
01:05:20,370 --> 01:05:24,690
day just re subscribing to
websites. Because each feed has

989
01:05:24,690 --> 01:05:28,710
its own individual entity. And
so you have to subscribe to it

990
01:05:28,770 --> 01:05:30,810
in in this one, and in this one
and this one. And before you

991
01:05:30,810 --> 01:05:34,740
know it, you've got, you know,
800,000 subscriptions, web

992
01:05:34,740 --> 01:05:40,230
subscriptions. And so this is
not practical. It's not working.

993
01:05:40,380 --> 01:05:41,850
Got it? Got it. Yeah.

994
01:05:42,420 --> 01:05:46,260
All right. Let me just switch
gears for a second. Okay.

995
01:05:48,240 --> 01:05:54,660
Multiple fee splits in the TLV
records. So we can get

996
01:05:55,920 --> 01:06:00,150
everything working with ln pay.
Now moving on to value for

997
01:06:00,150 --> 01:06:04,200
value, streaming payments, for
those who don't know what this

998
01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:09,030
is yet. and the value block? Has
that been fixed? Is that is that

999
01:06:09,030 --> 01:06:11,280
now functioning? Because I have
no idea because everything

1000
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:14,010
happened in a blur in the past
couple of days for me?

1001
01:06:14,310 --> 01:06:18,360
Yeah, it's all blur to that. I
don't know. I don't know if it's

1002
01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:20,550
fixed or not, because I was
trying to help him figure it

1003
01:06:20,550 --> 01:06:24,600
out. And then all the dapple
stuff happened. And I started to

1004
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:29,430
get back to it yesterday. And
then mark, okay. stuff happened.

1005
01:06:29,430 --> 01:06:33,300
Yeah. And now had half a
million, you know, add a stamp

1006
01:06:33,300 --> 01:06:37,860
to import. So that's, yeah, I
don't know, it's gonna have to

1007
01:06:37,860 --> 01:06:39,690
be something that I get back to
the next day or so.

1008
01:06:40,710 --> 01:06:44,850
Okay, is a thing that we can
tell everybody, so they know

1009
01:06:44,850 --> 01:06:46,230
what to be looking for.

1010
01:06:46,980 --> 01:06:52,230
Um, don't set up your value
block to receive to receive

1011
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:57,960
sets. Right now, if you need a
custom key custom record. Just

1012
01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:04,050
don't until, because that that
part of the spec came later. And

1013
01:07:04,050 --> 01:07:10,170
so thanks doesn't support it
yet. Part Four friend does pod

1014
01:07:10,170 --> 01:07:17,340
station does and Brees Does,
does not if but for some reason.

1015
01:07:18,180 --> 01:07:21,570
The they're, they're still
failing in a way that I don't

1016
01:07:21,570 --> 01:07:26,580
understand. So for now, I just
think it's best for people not

1017
01:07:26,610 --> 01:07:32,460
to receive sets on on LNP, you
can send fine, but don't try to

1018
01:07:32,460 --> 01:07:36,090
receive them until we get this
figured out and put out a

1019
01:07:36,090 --> 01:07:36,450
signal.

1020
01:07:37,350 --> 01:07:42,060
Just wanted to update everybody.
I just ran a chart and a total

1021
01:07:42,060 --> 01:07:48,150
for the seven days trailing this
moment. The index has received

1022
01:07:48,150 --> 01:07:58,620
103,478 SATs, which represents
roughly 1% of 10,347,800 SATs

1023
01:07:58,620 --> 01:08:03,330
for this past past week. At the
current price. Roughly 50,000.

1024
01:08:03,330 --> 01:08:07,050
That means $5,000. Am I saying
this right?

1025
01:08:08,370 --> 01:08:10,770
No Name. Math matching?

1026
01:08:12,900 --> 01:08:13,620
Yeah, here we go.

1027
01:08:15,240 --> 01:08:18,480
So when you talk math,

1028
01:08:21,900 --> 01:08:24,750
math to me, oh my goodness.

1029
01:08:25,739 --> 01:08:27,779
I am say run the Spanx dry.

1030
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:30,240
This is what she said.

1031
01:08:31,020 --> 01:08:31,800
She said that

1032
01:08:31,860 --> 01:08:35,520
I don't even want to listen to
it again. I don't want to know

1033
01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:38,550
what Dame Jennifer says to me.
Again, I'll give you the I'll

1034
01:08:38,550 --> 01:08:43,140
give you that number. Oops, I
can't put commas. There we go.

1035
01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:50,460
So at today's price you have
$5,214 flowed through podcasting

1036
01:08:50,460 --> 01:08:54,300
2.0 this past week, what's your
piece? What's your piece of it

1037
01:08:54,300 --> 01:08:59,310
is what I asked everybody else.
So now, why didn't run the

1038
01:08:59,310 --> 01:09:04,800
number of transactions. But you
know, a greater amount than that

1039
01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:10,110
went to podcast app developers.
Because we know that certain has

1040
01:09:10,110 --> 01:09:16,350
certain apps or take like resist
taking 5% I think LMP I think we

1041
01:09:16,350 --> 01:09:20,670
finally got Tim to Cooper sent
to Yeah, to consider taking some

1042
01:09:20,670 --> 01:09:24,030
money. Yeah, we have to we have
to beat people in the

1043
01:09:24,030 --> 01:09:30,210
submission. Dave, it's crazy.
Take the money. You know, and

1044
01:09:30,210 --> 01:09:34,410
every app knows for self what
they're doing. And that's some

1045
01:09:34,410 --> 01:09:39,000
serious coin that's $20,000 a
month is flowing from listeners

1046
01:09:39,090 --> 01:09:43,950
to the podcast ecosystem. Which
Yes, majority going to

1047
01:09:43,950 --> 01:09:47,760
podcasters but not just
podcasters people who help

1048
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:52,980
produce this show. In fact, 5%
goes to Dred Scott Who does?

1049
01:09:53,370 --> 01:09:56,820
Does our chapter work? on no
agenda. He does that as well

1050
01:09:56,820 --> 01:10:00,540
gets 5% there's there's 5% that
goes to a Neil Jones no

1051
01:10:00,540 --> 01:10:07,080
relation. He's the clip
custodian, and then to wallet

1052
01:10:07,140 --> 01:10:11,250
providers, app developers, I
mean, it's really quite

1053
01:10:11,250 --> 01:10:14,370
phenomenal. This this is some
real money that's flowing here.

1054
01:10:14,969 --> 01:10:17,609
Yeah, that's what I tweeted that
the other day, I was like, you

1055
01:10:17,609 --> 01:10:22,439
know, what, you know, this is
boring. Apple subscriptions is

1056
01:10:22,439 --> 01:10:26,279
boring. Wait, wait me up when
you can, when you can stick a

1057
01:10:26,279 --> 01:10:29,759
subscribe button on any app and
have the app developer get get

1058
01:10:29,759 --> 01:10:33,029
part of that revenue. Because
the apple subscriptions is just

1059
01:10:33,029 --> 01:10:37,229
more of it's just more of app
developers not getting paid. I

1060
01:10:37,229 --> 01:10:37,589
mean,

1061
01:10:37,710 --> 01:10:41,310
right now we're at, you know,
over a quarter of a million

1062
01:10:41,310 --> 01:10:44,340
dollars per year at current run
rate is flowing through

1063
01:10:44,340 --> 01:10:49,050
podcasting. That is podcasting.
2.0 now, it's not the billion

1064
01:10:49,050 --> 01:10:52,800
dollars, but let me tell you,
I'm looking at my own wallet.

1065
01:10:53,100 --> 01:10:55,080
I'm saying Hey, I got a couple
100 bucks.

1066
01:10:56,580 --> 01:10:58,830
I'm literally going to go broke.

1067
01:11:01,020 --> 01:11:04,710
I know. I know. I keep like
filling up my pod friend wallet

1068
01:11:04,710 --> 01:11:08,160
to is like, shuffling between
them. You know like, I need some

1069
01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:10,830
more money over here. I need
some money over here. It is and

1070
01:11:10,830 --> 01:11:14,130
it's so much fun to do. This I
was used to joy

1071
01:11:14,340 --> 01:11:23,250
as using pod friend. And then as
my non as my non sat wallet, I

1072
01:11:23,250 --> 01:11:26,610
mean set podcast player, my non
value podcast player and then

1073
01:11:26,790 --> 01:11:32,550
when Martin put in, put in the
boost, it was hard coded at 1000

1074
01:11:32,550 --> 01:11:34,860
I'm like, oh god, I can't test
too rich for my blood. I

1075
01:11:34,860 --> 01:11:39,120
can't do it. Well, I just boost
half what I normally boost. I'm

1076
01:11:39,120 --> 01:11:43,470
a 500 sat booster. Yeah, so I'm
just but but I do want to boost

1077
01:11:43,470 --> 01:11:44,130
more.

1078
01:11:44,790 --> 01:11:47,400
He just dropped it though that I
installed the latest beta. Oh,

1079
01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:49,380
he's changed it. 500 Yeah, it's
a fine. Okay,

1080
01:11:49,380 --> 01:11:50,460
but it's still fixed.

1081
01:11:51,150 --> 01:11:54,780
I think I think so. I think I
just have to add, okay, so I

1082
01:11:54,780 --> 01:11:58,650
last night, but but you know,
the other the other app that I'm

1083
01:11:58,650 --> 01:12:01,290
looking forward to putting the
value thing is pod verse.

1084
01:12:02,160 --> 01:12:05,460
Oh, my gosh, I'm so ready for
that. Yeah, that's another great

1085
01:12:05,460 --> 01:12:06,150
one. Yeah.

1086
01:12:07,470 --> 01:12:10,230
I think I sent you some some
clips. Yeah,

1087
01:12:10,230 --> 01:12:12,390
you're saying we play with the
clips. It was very, very cool

1088
01:12:12,390 --> 01:12:13,260
functionality.

1089
01:12:13,350 --> 01:12:18,450
Yeah, that is I didn't realize
you could do that. Well, that's

1090
01:12:18,450 --> 01:12:18,900
that's

1091
01:12:18,900 --> 01:12:21,240
the history of the app. Right.
As we learned from Mitch that's

1092
01:12:21,240 --> 01:12:25,320
that's where they come from,
from, from podcast clips. Now to

1093
01:12:25,320 --> 01:12:28,950
be done in some expert way by
Facebook. Apparently. We'll see.

1094
01:12:29,730 --> 01:12:33,330
Yeah. Oh, by the way, we had it.
I get it. A guy called me or not

1095
01:12:33,330 --> 01:12:41,580
call me. Email me. From pull up
email. he emailed me they just

1096
01:12:41,580 --> 01:12:47,040
integrated soundbites. And I've
never heard of this group

1097
01:12:47,040 --> 01:12:49,050
before. Where is it?

1098
01:12:50,910 --> 01:12:51,690
From

1099
01:12:53,820 --> 01:12:56,370
headliner dot app. Have you
heard of that?

1100
01:12:59,940 --> 01:13:03,840
Why does this sound familiar?
It's some sort of video thing.

1101
01:13:05,100 --> 01:13:06,150
And headline or

1102
01:13:08,910 --> 01:13:11,940
video is the best way to promote
your podcast. Oh, Julie Andrews

1103
01:13:11,940 --> 01:13:14,310
on the homepage. Well, I'm sold.
Yeah,

1104
01:13:14,670 --> 01:13:18,450
they've got they've got to go to
their blog. Do you see a link to

1105
01:13:18,450 --> 01:13:19,020
the blog?

1106
01:13:19,050 --> 01:13:19,650
Yes, I do.

1107
01:13:20,490 --> 01:13:24,210
Go there. And the first post is
no more clipping headliner now.

1108
01:13:24,690 --> 01:13:28,020
soundbite and nice. Oh, I should
Yeah, I should tweet this right

1109
01:13:28,020 --> 01:13:28,500
away.

1110
01:13:29,430 --> 01:13:32,760
Yeah. And so yeah, there were
I'm gonna put them on the apps

1111
01:13:32,760 --> 01:13:35,550
page. But that's everything.
Like this is like a video thing.

1112
01:13:35,550 --> 01:13:38,220
I think they're consuming the
soundbite tag and somehow

1113
01:13:38,700 --> 01:13:40,830
converting it into like a video
clip.

1114
01:13:41,340 --> 01:13:42,600
I'm tweeting it right now.

1115
01:13:42,630 --> 01:13:43,650
That's good. Yeah, it's cool.

1116
01:13:45,300 --> 01:13:49,140
What's it gonna say? Oh, yes,
make sure that that your your

1117
01:13:49,170 --> 01:13:53,760
features, etc is updated on the
apps page. The way I think it

1118
01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:57,690
works is you create a pull
request and the GitHub and then

1119
01:13:57,750 --> 01:13:59,880
we integrate it so that you can
update when you have new

1120
01:13:59,880 --> 01:14:02,100
features make sure you're live
make sure you're listed at all

1121
01:14:02,100 --> 01:14:07,740
actually make sure you're there
Yeah. tell you why. Why don't we

1122
01:14:08,520 --> 01:14:14,490
open up the board room here and
and I will bring

1123
01:14:14,790 --> 01:14:15,630
you this knee I

1124
01:14:15,630 --> 01:14:23,760
know right? Yeah, come on and
guys will. Now we welcome to the

1125
01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:26,160
boardroom and to the board
meeting the guys who I call the

1126
01:14:26,160 --> 01:14:29,400
Pirates of podcast hosting.
We've got Mark Asquith, Kiran

1127
01:14:29,550 --> 01:14:33,450
McKee free from captivate FM
Gentlemen, welcome to the

1128
01:14:33,450 --> 01:14:34,350
boardroom.

1129
01:14:35,580 --> 01:14:37,530
Hello there sir. Thank you for
having us. It's

1130
01:14:37,530 --> 01:14:38,010
a pleasure.

1131
01:14:40,020 --> 01:14:43,020
That ladies and gentlemen is
Mark who who may or may not be

1132
01:14:43,020 --> 01:14:45,210
doing most of the talking we
don't know yet. Karen How are

1133
01:14:45,210 --> 01:14:45,540
you?

1134
01:14:46,590 --> 01:14:50,070
I'm okay. Thanks. backhoe samsa
posh when it when it comes on

1135
01:14:50,070 --> 01:14:52,890
something I'm just like, you
know in the background to keep

1136
01:14:52,890 --> 01:14:56,190
my cool like and do all the
talking. It just works that way.

1137
01:14:58,950 --> 01:15:01,080
So y'all have a similar
Relationship demand. Adam.

1138
01:15:01,110 --> 01:15:04,560
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, let's let
him talk like curry talk as much

1139
01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:08,490
as you want us. Hey guys, I'm
so, so glad that you would join

1140
01:15:08,490 --> 01:15:12,270
us here in the board meeting, as
we've been trying to speak with

1141
01:15:12,330 --> 01:15:15,900
gosh as as many people who were
around independent podcasting,

1142
01:15:15,900 --> 01:15:21,330
but certainly podcasting 2.0 and
you guys, I believe you co

1143
01:15:21,330 --> 01:15:25,980
founded captivate FM, which is
branded as the world's only

1144
01:15:25,980 --> 01:15:29,880
growth oriented podcast host.
Trademark no less.

1145
01:15:31,830 --> 01:15:35,010
It is indeed. And we did. We
did. We co founded that back in

1146
01:15:35,790 --> 01:15:39,420
back in the day back in 2019.
And then launched into into

1147
01:15:39,420 --> 01:15:44,370
better in August 2019. And I've
been pedaling that catchphrase

1148
01:15:44,370 --> 01:15:46,770
ever since. But it's been a fun
ride as Nikki's been it's been a

1149
01:15:46,770 --> 01:15:47,490
lot of fun doing it.

1150
01:15:48,540 --> 01:15:53,220
Yeah, it's been stressful. It's
been fun. And I think it's by

1151
01:15:53,220 --> 01:15:57,360
far the most enjoyable thing
I've done. And sometimes good.

1152
01:15:57,480 --> 01:16:01,080
Typically, what I've seen is
people get into podcasting,

1153
01:16:01,080 --> 01:16:03,150
certainly from the technical
side, because they had an itch,

1154
01:16:03,150 --> 01:16:05,760
they wanted to scratch
themselves. You know, I see from

1155
01:16:05,760 --> 01:16:08,820
the hosting side, I don't think
there's a single person we've,

1156
01:16:08,850 --> 01:16:12,060
we've, we've had in the
boardroom, who hasn't said,

1157
01:16:12,060 --> 01:16:14,430
Well, you know, it's like I
didn't, it was hard to make an

1158
01:16:14,430 --> 01:16:17,850
RSS feed. Or this sock drawer
that sucked. I couldn't figure

1159
01:16:17,850 --> 01:16:20,550
this out. And I decided to do it
myself or I was doing it and

1160
01:16:20,550 --> 01:16:22,290
then all of a sudden it turned
into a business. What's the

1161
01:16:22,290 --> 01:16:22,980
story for you?

1162
01:16:24,810 --> 01:16:28,620
Yeah, that's pretty much the
same. To be honest. He is. He is

1163
01:16:28,620 --> 01:16:31,560
the classic tale of like you
said, scratching the itch fruit.

1164
01:16:31,560 --> 01:16:34,800
From our perspective, we sort of
transitioned with an, I don't

1165
01:16:34,800 --> 01:16:37,320
wanna say an inter in business,
but a business that got us into

1166
01:16:37,320 --> 01:16:41,100
podcasting, relatively low risk
to us. So we, we were part of a

1167
01:16:41,100 --> 01:16:45,540
design agency, working across
the world, and I got into

1168
01:16:45,540 --> 01:16:48,660
podcasts, I'm really obsessive
about things. Like if I love

1169
01:16:48,660 --> 01:16:51,300
something, I want to know
everything about it. So now I'm

1170
01:16:51,480 --> 01:16:52,710
gonna be obsessed with MOOCs.

1171
01:16:55,260 --> 01:16:58,260
About my brand new theorem. And
just before we started this,

1172
01:16:59,190 --> 01:17:02,490
yeah, so don't worry, it's an
easy thing to be obsessed about.

1173
01:17:03,150 --> 01:17:04,980
And I'm looking forward to
getting in.

1174
01:17:06,330 --> 01:17:11,520
We're, so what was the what was
the edge was, and we're, maybe I

1175
01:17:11,520 --> 01:17:16,470
should step back, both working
at a web services firm.

1176
01:17:17,190 --> 01:17:20,310
Actually, I've run some of
those. was one more graphic

1177
01:17:20,310 --> 01:17:24,360
design one more code. Of the two
of you?

1178
01:17:24,360 --> 01:17:27,600
Yeah, pretty much. Well, I was I
was I was the owner of the

1179
01:17:27,600 --> 01:17:29,610
agency. I was one of the owners
of the agency. And Karen was a

1180
01:17:29,610 --> 01:17:32,970
developer. And I remember
getting into podcasting and

1181
01:17:32,970 --> 01:17:35,250
really sort of getting obsessed
with and then I came to care and

1182
01:17:35,250 --> 01:17:38,820
one morning and said, Look, it
seems really tough to kind of

1183
01:17:38,820 --> 01:17:41,130
figure out WordPress for
podcasting. And people seem to

1184
01:17:41,130 --> 01:17:43,980
need help with it. Shall we spin
up a bit of a service on the

1185
01:17:43,980 --> 01:17:46,710
side, and that was always
started wasn't a kid. And we did

1186
01:17:46,710 --> 01:17:47,250
that. And we

1187
01:17:49,410 --> 01:17:52,350
did. And Karen, were you
thinking, holy crap, what's this

1188
01:17:52,350 --> 01:17:55,350
guy doing? He's about to ruin
the only gig that's paying is

1189
01:17:55,350 --> 01:17:58,800
gonna go off and be funky. Yeah.

1190
01:18:00,240 --> 01:18:01,620
Well, I mean, you know, it's

1191
01:18:01,620 --> 01:18:05,940
like, I've always liked side
projects. You know, I've always

1192
01:18:05,940 --> 01:18:08,520
liked something that I couldn't
really, you know, get my teeth

1193
01:18:08,520 --> 01:18:14,670
into at night. And, you know, it
was a problem. Yeah, yeah. You

1194
01:18:14,670 --> 01:18:18,510
know, it's a problem that's
waiting to be solved. So now, as

1195
01:18:18,510 --> 01:18:21,240
soon as it can smell like, yeah,
I'm really interested. I don't I

1196
01:18:21,240 --> 01:18:23,190
don't even think I said, I'll
think about it. I'll just said

1197
01:18:23,190 --> 01:18:23,550
the other.

1198
01:18:26,220 --> 01:18:29,370
side project. Yeah, good side
project makes the day job

1199
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:30,120
tolerable,

1200
01:18:30,180 --> 01:18:31,920
you know? Exactly.

1201
01:18:32,130 --> 01:18:35,670
So what was the problem you were
solving? Was it the simple

1202
01:18:35,670 --> 01:18:39,210
because again, just looking at
how, looking at your branding

1203
01:18:39,210 --> 01:18:43,920
and what you do and what you're
saying on on captivate.fm? What

1204
01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:47,070
was the problem? Was it ease of
use was it lack of buzzwords,

1205
01:18:47,670 --> 01:18:50,220
excluding buzzwords and
technical things? And this is

1206
01:18:50,220 --> 01:18:51,810
kind of what you're
communicating to me on the

1207
01:18:51,810 --> 01:18:52,410
website?

1208
01:18:53,640 --> 01:18:56,250
Yeah, that's absolutely. And
sort of the brand side of it.

1209
01:18:56,250 --> 01:18:58,710
The messaging side is, you
mentioned, you know, is one, the

1210
01:18:58,710 --> 01:19:01,230
designer and one the coder, I'm
sort of on the brand side, I'm a

1211
01:19:01,230 --> 01:19:05,340
terrible designer on a terrible
code. But I'm certainly a little

1212
01:19:05,340 --> 01:19:08,490
bit more on the communication
side. So it's the communications

1213
01:19:08,490 --> 01:19:13,020
it really is the simplicity in
understanding the users. And I

1214
01:19:13,020 --> 01:19:16,200
think that translates through to
how we build the system out and

1215
01:19:16,200 --> 01:19:19,620
how we put captivate together.
Everything is just really,

1216
01:19:19,620 --> 01:19:22,710
really simple to understand.
And, you know, if something's a

1217
01:19:22,710 --> 01:19:25,680
little bit more complex, we like
to add the context around it,

1218
01:19:25,680 --> 01:19:29,370
why is it complex? And why can't
it be reduced into the most

1219
01:19:29,370 --> 01:19:31,380
simple terms? So yeah, you're
absolutely right. And Q and I

1220
01:19:31,380 --> 01:19:33,930
know that, that that came
through in the, in the build as

1221
01:19:33,930 --> 01:19:35,430
well, didn't it? We're trying to
stick to that.

1222
01:19:36,510 --> 01:19:39,870
Yeah. You know, from the start,
you know, we always had the, we

1223
01:19:39,870 --> 01:19:43,770
always went into the mindset of
what we were podcasters. You

1224
01:19:43,770 --> 01:19:46,290
know, we thankfully, you know,
Mark had the show on and we had

1225
01:19:46,290 --> 01:19:50,250
a lot of users from Mike's at
our previous business. They got

1226
01:19:50,250 --> 01:19:53,550
started and you know, in the
podcasting space, so we had a

1227
01:19:53,550 --> 01:19:56,730
lot of users that we wanted to
use and trial and, you know, we

1228
01:19:56,730 --> 01:19:59,070
just spoke to him and asked them
kind of what what they wanted

1229
01:19:59,070 --> 01:20:01,590
and you know what, what did
Wanting to podcasters. And we

1230
01:20:01,590 --> 01:20:04,230
just listened, you know, we
opened his ears. And, you know,

1231
01:20:04,260 --> 01:20:07,170
we're at a point now where, you
know, it's by far one of the

1232
01:20:07,170 --> 01:20:10,560
most easiest platforms, you
know, to use in our, in our

1233
01:20:10,560 --> 01:20:11,220
opinion anyway,

1234
01:20:11,310 --> 01:20:15,450
what's the top five of things
that people were saying they

1235
01:20:15,450 --> 01:20:19,680
wanted? This really does
interest me for a whole bunch of

1236
01:20:19,680 --> 01:20:22,350
reasons. But I think this is one
of the unique selling

1237
01:20:22,380 --> 01:20:26,130
propositions of any host is?
Well, to me, it seems like it's

1238
01:20:26,910 --> 01:20:32,130
its ease of use features, and
statistical reporting it does

1239
01:20:32,130 --> 01:20:36,030
that kind of merge with the top
five that you guys saw? Yeah,

1240
01:20:36,090 --> 01:20:39,840
I think so. And there was a
couple of underpinning things as

1241
01:20:39,840 --> 01:20:43,350
well. So there was sort of the
tangible things that people

1242
01:20:43,350 --> 01:20:46,140
wanted to be able to see when
they logged in. And also, you

1243
01:20:46,140 --> 01:20:48,180
know, without sounding crass,
you know, they wanted to be

1244
01:20:48,180 --> 01:20:50,790
pitched those things. But I
think some of the underlying

1245
01:20:50,790 --> 01:20:54,330
tenets of it were were very
clearly the, like I said, the

1246
01:20:54,330 --> 01:20:59,130
communication, you know, and
also sort of feeling part of the

1247
01:20:59,130 --> 01:21:01,740
brand and the company not
feeling like they were buying

1248
01:21:01,740 --> 01:21:06,480
software from people that were,
a lot of people are experienced

1249
01:21:06,480 --> 01:21:09,750
in this this alienation because
they've been told how to do

1250
01:21:09,750 --> 01:21:12,600
podcasting, because it was, you
know, it's theoretically very

1251
01:21:12,600 --> 01:21:15,510
technical. And we sort of said,
well, it is very technical, but

1252
01:21:15,510 --> 01:21:18,870
sells a car, but you still enjoy
driving the car, you don't have

1253
01:21:18,870 --> 01:21:21,480
to understand what happens under
the hood. So it was that that

1254
01:21:21,480 --> 01:21:24,450
feeling of being a part of
something that was vital. And

1255
01:21:24,450 --> 01:21:26,940
then the other thing, which
Kiran and Karen's put a lot of

1256
01:21:26,940 --> 01:21:31,290
time into with the technical
team, was a lack of stagnation.

1257
01:21:31,290 --> 01:21:34,890
Now, that came pretty, pretty
quickly after we launched.

1258
01:21:35,070 --> 01:21:39,900
Insofar as we because we came
out of MVP, we came out of this

1259
01:21:39,900 --> 01:21:43,860
beta phase, fairly quickly, we
were we were releasing updates

1260
01:21:43,860 --> 01:21:48,390
really, really frequently. And
people seem to really enjoy

1261
01:21:48,390 --> 01:21:50,430
that. So we went into that more,
and we said, What do you know,

1262
01:21:50,430 --> 01:21:53,340
what actually will release
either upgrades or features

1263
01:21:53,340 --> 01:21:56,850
every single week, and people
really responded to that,

1264
01:21:56,850 --> 01:21:59,340
because they were, they were
sort of worried that they will

1265
01:21:59,340 --> 01:22:02,250
miss it. And we've seen recently
a lot more, you know, they were

1266
01:22:02,250 --> 01:22:05,190
concerned, they were missing?
How on the latest thing that

1267
01:22:05,190 --> 01:22:08,220
would help them. And that really
gravitated to captivate because

1268
01:22:08,220 --> 01:22:11,700
we, we were very forward
thinking with the release of

1269
01:22:11,700 --> 01:22:14,190
sir. Q And that was a big one. I
know, I had a lot of stress for

1270
01:22:14,190 --> 01:22:17,490
you in the team. And it's a
challenge, but people seem to

1271
01:22:17,490 --> 01:22:19,590
like that in there. Yeah, I

1272
01:22:19,590 --> 01:22:23,250
think it's just, you know, being
prepared to sometimes, you know,

1273
01:22:23,250 --> 01:22:28,470
just really increase, you know,
the output. And it's not, we're

1274
01:22:28,470 --> 01:22:31,380
not talking massive pieces are
built, you know, massive pieces

1275
01:22:31,380 --> 01:22:34,170
of tech that have been built,
you know, just small, easy to

1276
01:22:34,170 --> 01:22:37,320
use things that can you know, be
deployed on a, on a quick two

1277
01:22:37,320 --> 01:22:40,320
week or one week sprint, you
know, it just makes a world of

1278
01:22:40,320 --> 01:22:42,630
difference to some podcasters.
You know, even if, even if

1279
01:22:42,630 --> 01:22:46,170
you've only had 10, podcasters,
that have asked you for it, you

1280
01:22:46,170 --> 01:22:49,530
know, if 10 people have asked
you for it, then it's probably

1281
01:22:49,530 --> 01:22:52,590
happened to a lot more people,
you know, and he's just, you

1282
01:22:52,590 --> 01:22:55,530
know, looking for those little
easy to win ones. And yeah, it's

1283
01:22:55,530 --> 01:22:57,690
stressful, but I think he's
been, you know, worth every

1284
01:22:57,690 --> 01:22:58,620
every step of that.

1285
01:22:59,190 --> 01:23:01,770
I like I like that approach.
Because you have, you know, a

1286
01:23:01,770 --> 01:23:04,650
few different in the software
world, you have a couple of

1287
01:23:04,650 --> 01:23:10,380
different mindsets out there you
have Well, if if anybody asks

1288
01:23:10,380 --> 01:23:12,720
for it, I'm going to put I'm
going to consider it. And then

1289
01:23:12,720 --> 01:23:15,420
if a few more asked for it, I'm
going to take it seriously. But

1290
01:23:15,420 --> 01:23:18,870
then you have another mindset
of, well, I'm not really we're

1291
01:23:18,870 --> 01:23:21,840
not really going to put it on
our roadmap until some, some

1292
01:23:21,840 --> 01:23:25,860
overwhelming majority of our
users or our customers want it.

1293
01:23:26,280 --> 01:23:29,820
And I think, Well, you know, you
can understand the logic and the

1294
01:23:29,820 --> 01:23:33,930
reasoning behind both of those.
But really, I've always leaned

1295
01:23:33,930 --> 01:23:38,850
towards what you're saying,
which is if anybody wants it, no

1296
01:23:38,850 --> 01:23:42,300
matter how much you're taking
seriously.

1297
01:23:44,340 --> 01:23:49,200
Yeah, it's a challenge to, to
make sure that everyone feels

1298
01:23:49,200 --> 01:23:52,410
part of it. And I think that's
really important for a brand,

1299
01:23:52,500 --> 01:23:55,230
especially a brand new podcast
in this built itself on being

1300
01:23:55,230 --> 01:24:00,750
open and as inclusive as he can
be continually. And one of the

1301
01:24:00,750 --> 01:24:04,620
things that we always try to do
and we always focus on is is

1302
01:24:04,620 --> 01:24:09,390
overlaying the requests with a
sense of intuition. And

1303
01:24:09,720 --> 01:24:14,280
basically, going at it from the
perspective or we'll look, can I

1304
01:24:14,280 --> 01:24:17,700
see how we would use this as
podcasters. Now this sounds very

1305
01:24:17,700 --> 01:24:21,420
simplistic, but genuinely would
we use this feature today? Like

1306
01:24:21,420 --> 01:24:25,560
we put a couple of features out
like the single sponsor, single

1307
01:24:25,560 --> 01:24:28,350
click sponsor kit, which is
very, very simple feature. It's

1308
01:24:28,350 --> 01:24:31,830
just a nicely designed PDF that
automatically generates when you

1309
01:24:31,830 --> 01:24:35,700
click a button. Oh, awesome.
headline stats. Smart. Yeah.

1310
01:24:36,060 --> 01:24:39,630
It's simple. But the the thing
that it solves is not getting

1311
01:24:39,630 --> 01:24:42,300
the PDF, the thing that it
solves is the education around

1312
01:24:42,300 --> 01:24:44,100
what to put in that PDF.

1313
01:24:44,130 --> 01:24:47,430
And that yes, and this is
something I've noticed, then

1314
01:24:47,460 --> 01:24:49,920
you're just kind of jogging my
memory about one of the big

1315
01:24:49,920 --> 01:24:54,000
things in podcast hosting seems
to be the communication with the

1316
01:24:54,000 --> 01:24:58,530
customers and the learning and
the knowledge transfer and it's

1317
01:24:58,530 --> 01:25:02,370
done in different ways. I'm most
proud I think does a very, very

1318
01:25:02,370 --> 01:25:08,490
good job with having some help
desk supported 24. Seven, I

1319
01:25:08,490 --> 01:25:13,620
believe. They do educational
podcast themselves. They have

1320
01:25:13,620 --> 01:25:16,920
blog posts, they do very
frequent outreach and email

1321
01:25:16,920 --> 01:25:21,240
communications. Then you have
blueberry, for example, the

1322
01:25:21,270 --> 01:25:24,240
blueberry, you can I think, just
schedule a meeting with Todd.

1323
01:25:25,170 --> 01:25:27,900
And he'll walk you through
anything, anything that you

1324
01:25:27,900 --> 01:25:31,650
want. And Lipson, you can
probably buy some stock on what

1325
01:25:31,650 --> 01:25:37,470
you do over there with them. I'm
just joking, you're forced. So

1326
01:25:38,160 --> 01:25:41,400
is that the two areas you focus
on? Or is that really the main

1327
01:25:41,400 --> 01:25:46,200
area you focus on? And how time
intensive and cost? Just what's

1328
01:25:46,200 --> 01:25:49,740
the cost associated with that it
because people seem to podcasts

1329
01:25:49,740 --> 01:25:53,310
or seem to really want to have a
friendly voice to just have

1330
01:25:53,310 --> 01:25:56,430
them? Yeah, it's okay. here's,
here's what's happening. Here's

1331
01:25:56,430 --> 01:25:59,010
how it will shake out or here's
what you do, or here's what

1332
01:25:59,010 --> 01:25:59,790
button you push.

1333
01:26:00,960 --> 01:26:05,790
Well, that's a really insightful
final section to that to that

1334
01:26:05,790 --> 01:26:09,990
question, though, because that
was the key thing for us. So you

1335
01:26:09,990 --> 01:26:12,450
remember earlier, I mentioned
that I'm a fairly obsessive guy

1336
01:26:12,450 --> 01:26:15,360
when it comes to things that I
enjoy. And Kieran is the one

1337
01:26:15,360 --> 01:26:19,560
that kind of steadies me. He,
and he's I mean, he's the talent

1338
01:26:19,560 --> 01:26:21,630
when it comes to the building as
well, I couldn't do anything

1339
01:26:21,630 --> 01:26:25,410
without him. And it is. What's
interesting from from my side is

1340
01:26:25,410 --> 01:26:30,990
that the other part of my
personality is to be very loud,

1341
01:26:31,260 --> 01:26:33,390
about things that I really
enjoy. And that's what happened

1342
01:26:33,390 --> 01:26:36,360
in podcasting. Like back in
2013 2014. When I got into it

1343
01:26:36,360 --> 01:26:39,990
before, before Karen and I got
together, I was just rather than

1344
01:26:39,990 --> 01:26:43,020
sort of, let's use microphones
as an example, rather than

1345
01:26:43,020 --> 01:26:45,750
saying, look, here's the answer
to the question, which

1346
01:26:45,750 --> 01:26:49,020
microphone Do you want to use?
And the answer is any one of

1347
01:26:49,020 --> 01:26:53,580
these for these 10 reasons, my
approach is a person is just boy

1348
01:26:53,580 --> 01:26:57,510
use this one, just use that one.
And then if you don't like that

1349
01:26:57,510 --> 01:26:59,850
one, here are three other
options. But your answer is

1350
01:26:59,850 --> 01:27:04,590
this. And we didn't realize that
that was building the captivate

1351
01:27:04,590 --> 01:27:06,870
brand. We were traveling around
the world, we would do, you

1352
01:27:06,870 --> 01:27:10,020
know, primarily us and going to
the podcasting conferences, and

1353
01:27:10,410 --> 01:27:14,670
I was doing my podcast around
podcasting and that the

1354
01:27:14,670 --> 01:27:18,540
outspoken nature of cured and I
together the thing that sort of

1355
01:27:18,540 --> 01:27:21,780
locally tours, yes, is in a
little bit of hot water, because

1356
01:27:22,260 --> 01:27:26,460
ice is a relatively small place
we live that was the thing that

1357
01:27:26,910 --> 01:27:29,400
started to get us noticed,
because people liked the

1358
01:27:29,400 --> 01:27:32,970
clarity. So yeah, it was it's
the content, it's the the

1359
01:27:32,970 --> 01:27:37,500
education we do one thing that
we've done since 2015 is we do

1360
01:27:37,500 --> 01:27:41,100
every Friday, just an open
office hours on Facebook, I've

1361
01:27:41,100 --> 01:27:44,100
done it every single Friday for
the last six years where people

1362
01:27:44,100 --> 01:27:47,520
can just turn up and, and just,
you know, ask me questions and

1363
01:27:47,520 --> 01:27:49,530
dismiss what they want to
discuss in in podcast and and

1364
01:27:49,530 --> 01:27:52,080
that that's sort of that's the
thing that people tell you

1365
01:27:52,110 --> 01:27:54,210
doesn't look and you shouldn't
be doing it.

1366
01:27:55,530 --> 01:27:58,770
Amazingly, amazingly, you're
doing it right now with us, it's

1367
01:27:58,770 --> 01:28:02,910
the exact same concept is let's
just talk about what the heck

1368
01:28:02,910 --> 01:28:06,090
we're doing. Let's bring people
in to talk about what they want

1369
01:28:06,090 --> 01:28:09,360
what they need, which is going
to be my next question after I

1370
01:28:09,360 --> 01:28:13,410
lead you down right towards the
800 pound gorilla, the elephant

1371
01:28:13,410 --> 01:28:19,410
in the room the what we've been
able to digest so far of the

1372
01:28:19,410 --> 01:28:24,360
apple announcement with their
subscriptions, hosting, etc,

1373
01:28:24,360 --> 01:28:26,580
etc. Any takeaways for you guys
on that yet?

1374
01:28:28,380 --> 01:28:32,760
I think he's fascinating that
they've they've put the creator

1375
01:28:32,760 --> 01:28:36,360
first i think that's that's
refreshing to see that they've

1376
01:28:36,360 --> 01:28:39,480
done that but there's been a few
things where it'll be nice to

1377
01:28:39,480 --> 01:28:41,610
get a little bit more light shed
on them. We've got a couple of

1378
01:28:41,610 --> 01:28:44,490
things as a hosting company.
We've got a couple more bits of

1379
01:28:44,490 --> 01:28:47,040
data to come through and
briefings to do at the time of

1380
01:28:47,040 --> 01:28:49,710
recording this we've not yet not
yet had those chats

1381
01:28:50,940 --> 01:28:53,220
but I think our feelings with
Apple themselves.

1382
01:28:53,879 --> 01:28:58,649
Yeah, the podcast host brief
into just to kind of get so they

1383
01:28:58,889 --> 01:29:01,259
also they did reach out and and
giving you guys a briefing.

1384
01:29:02,340 --> 01:29:04,230
Yes, we booked in for that week.

1385
01:29:04,230 --> 01:29:08,700
Sometimes those motherfuckers
they didn't they didn't give us

1386
01:29:08,700 --> 01:29:12,240
a heads up anything. They used
to call me all the time. They

1387
01:29:12,240 --> 01:29:13,440
completely shut me out.

1388
01:29:14,190 --> 01:29:17,190
Oh, no, it was after the fact
just to be clear. Oh, okay. So

1389
01:29:17,220 --> 01:29:19,590
it wasn't pre launch.
Concurrent?

1390
01:29:21,120 --> 01:29:23,850
Yeah, cuz I saw on the podcast
Connect, you know, there's a

1391
01:29:23,850 --> 01:29:26,250
little thing like we encourage
you to use third party hosts

1392
01:29:26,250 --> 01:29:31,260
like, okay, Gee, thanks, guys.
just felt a little dirty the way

1393
01:29:31,260 --> 01:29:32,010
they did that.

1394
01:29:32,370 --> 01:29:34,710
That's something I wanted to ask
about right off the bat was

1395
01:29:34,710 --> 01:29:38,130
that, you know, from what we can
tell already, and of course,

1396
01:29:38,130 --> 01:29:42,450
this is all very new from what
we've been able to glean. I

1397
01:29:42,450 --> 01:29:45,960
mean, Apple now is a podcast
hosting company. And you know,

1398
01:29:45,960 --> 01:29:49,590
if you go in there into your
dashboard, in the podcast

1399
01:29:49,590 --> 01:29:52,080
connect or whatever the new
version of that Flight, a new

1400
01:29:52,080 --> 01:29:56,640
flavor that is, you could
technically create a quote

1401
01:29:56,640 --> 01:30:00,600
unquote subscription podcast but
not charged for it. At that

1402
01:30:00,600 --> 01:30:03,930
point, Apple is your podcast
host. I mean that that's a

1403
01:30:03,930 --> 01:30:07,290
little, that's a sort of a
confrontational move on their

1404
01:30:07,290 --> 01:30:09,210
part against the hosting
company.

1405
01:30:10,710 --> 01:30:13,710
Yeah, something that Ken and I
chatted on yesterday for this,

1406
01:30:13,830 --> 01:30:18,420
this very reason to was sort of
the way you could use it to do

1407
01:30:18,420 --> 01:30:21,630
that very, very thing. And this
all led us to a number of

1408
01:30:21,630 --> 01:30:24,930
questions, you know, around, we
know that these feeds aren't

1409
01:30:24,930 --> 01:30:27,450
exclusive to Apple, the
commission elsewhere and so on,

1410
01:30:27,450 --> 01:30:30,600
from what we can glean. I mean,
I might be wrong with that, as

1411
01:30:30,600 --> 01:30:34,200
things progress, but it came
with a few question for us as

1412
01:30:34,200 --> 01:30:36,120
well, I'm Karen, you can you can
speak to this a lot more,

1413
01:30:36,120 --> 01:30:38,730
because you're much more
technical than I but around, you

1414
01:30:38,730 --> 01:30:44,190
know, further reporting, or user
agents downloads and data from

1415
01:30:44,220 --> 01:30:47,160
elsewhere. You know, does Apple
want to become that and the

1416
01:30:47,160 --> 01:30:50,370
support those that's inherent to
that as well, you know, how does

1417
01:30:50,370 --> 01:30:53,430
that work? The first second line
and third line support for death

1418
01:30:53,430 --> 01:30:55,920
to their podcast is there's so
many, there's complexities to

1419
01:30:55,920 --> 01:30:58,350
this in here. And I know, you,
you and I spoke about just

1420
01:30:58,350 --> 01:31:01,770
getting back from Spotify to
Apple, for example.

1421
01:31:02,759 --> 01:31:03,869
Yeah, I mean, I mean,

1422
01:31:04,950 --> 01:31:07,710
the only real way I can see
Apple becoming a media host, is

1423
01:31:07,980 --> 01:31:10,980
it being a separate entity from
Apple or been like, you know, an

1424
01:31:10,980 --> 01:31:15,330
apple hosting service that goes
include an RSS feed that is

1425
01:31:15,330 --> 01:31:20,580
usable in other areas. From what
I've seen, it appears that I

1426
01:31:20,580 --> 01:31:25,200
think you have got to charge for
it, you can go premium, freemium

1427
01:31:25,200 --> 01:31:29,640
sorry, and, you know, have free
long trials and stuff. But, you

1428
01:31:29,640 --> 01:31:32,730
know, obviously, I'm still I'm
not privy to the entire set of

1429
01:31:32,730 --> 01:31:34,770
information yet access, you
certainly obviously, just coming

1430
01:31:34,770 --> 01:31:38,760
out. But, you know, from my
understanding, one of the

1431
01:31:38,760 --> 01:31:42,300
episodes at least should should
be at least premium, or paid

1432
01:31:42,300 --> 01:31:46,020
for. But I mean, some of the
stuff on it is fairly decent,

1433
01:31:46,050 --> 01:31:47,640
you know, I've been looking
today, and there's a lot of

1434
01:31:47,640 --> 01:31:50,760
stuff that complements RSS
feeds. And that's the That, to

1435
01:31:50,760 --> 01:31:55,770
me is the good bit, you know,
complementing an RSS feed by,

1436
01:31:55,770 --> 01:31:58,860
you know, the app free episodes,
for example, I really like the

1437
01:31:58,860 --> 01:32:03,300
idea of it, you know, been able
to provide your subscribers an

1438
01:32:03,300 --> 01:32:06,030
ad free version, you know, when
no dynamic content and you know,

1439
01:32:06,030 --> 01:32:10,170
just actual, actual content,
just proper content. So that I

1440
01:32:10,170 --> 01:32:12,570
think that's, that's
interesting. But the host inside

1441
01:32:12,570 --> 01:32:17,550
just, it raises a few questions
from our input, you know, it's

1442
01:32:17,550 --> 01:32:18,840
just whatever will happen

1443
01:32:20,310 --> 01:32:24,540
is the apple clearly has no
bandwidth issues, they have a

1444
01:32:24,570 --> 01:32:28,290
new they have a global CDN,
they, they're very, very

1445
01:32:28,290 --> 01:32:32,730
familiar with the getting data
from their end to consumers. And

1446
01:32:32,760 --> 01:32:38,070
this and podcasting will be just
a very small addition to that.

1447
01:32:38,850 --> 01:32:46,380
To me, just looking at what I've
seen so far. This is where they

1448
01:32:46,380 --> 01:32:50,910
may have not thought it's
interesting. So when we had, for

1449
01:32:50,910 --> 01:32:55,860
instance, the breeze, lightning
wallet, integrate podcasting,

1450
01:32:56,280 --> 01:33:01,470
what this very professionally
run organizations small in

1451
01:33:01,470 --> 01:33:03,960
Israel, but they man, they know
how to develop, and they have,

1452
01:33:03,990 --> 01:33:07,260
you know, guidelines and
processes, and they develop

1453
01:33:07,260 --> 01:33:10,560
great products. But they had no
idea what they were getting into

1454
01:33:10,560 --> 01:33:13,380
with podcasting. And one of the
one of the first things that

1455
01:33:13,380 --> 01:33:16,410
happened. And we have a lot of
experience with that. And you

1456
01:33:16,410 --> 01:33:18,540
know, working with all these
different podcasts, app

1457
01:33:18,540 --> 01:33:22,500
developers, the first thing that
happened is, someone said, Well,

1458
01:33:22,500 --> 01:33:26,130
this is not rage, I see this
podcast listed, I never want to

1459
01:33:26,130 --> 01:33:30,510
see this horrible person and my
podcast app, and the company

1460
01:33:30,510 --> 01:33:33,990
breeze was paralyzed. because
they'd never seen this before.

1461
01:33:33,990 --> 01:33:37,260
They have no idea how to respond
to it. And Brenda immediately

1462
01:33:37,260 --> 01:33:40,050
reached out to me like, well,
what is it? Well, you know, I

1463
01:33:40,050 --> 01:33:42,810
actually should have prepared
you a little bit better, round

1464
01:33:42,810 --> 01:33:48,090
way to say, what Apple has no
experience in zero whatsoever.

1465
01:33:48,090 --> 01:33:52,380
In fact, no Silicon Valley, big
tech companies have that is

1466
01:33:52,410 --> 01:33:57,630
actually communicating with your
customer who needs help. You

1467
01:33:57,630 --> 01:34:00,960
can't get help from Apple yet
you can. It's like, well, I

1468
01:34:00,960 --> 01:34:04,350
can't figure out how to publish
this. It's not working. When I

1469
01:34:04,350 --> 01:34:07,680
press the button, their answer
will be make an appointment with

1470
01:34:07,680 --> 01:34:11,940
the Genius Bar. I'm not kidding.
They do not know how to do that.

1471
01:34:11,940 --> 01:34:16,410
I think that is it. Just looking
at the news. The people they've

1472
01:34:16,410 --> 01:34:19,260
hired, you know, they've hired
really smart people who were in

1473
01:34:19,260 --> 01:34:22,920
programming and audio
production. And they understand

1474
01:34:22,950 --> 01:34:27,630
NPR and high end stuff. But they
don't know what what customer

1475
01:34:27,630 --> 01:34:32,100
services, they just is for this
for services. I don't think

1476
01:34:32,100 --> 01:34:34,050
they'll be able to I don't even
think they know what's going to

1477
01:34:34,050 --> 01:34:34,410
hit him.

1478
01:34:36,210 --> 01:34:38,490
Do you know it's fascinating to
watch that and because there's

1479
01:34:38,520 --> 01:34:43,590
there's so much that we see day
to day around what is going on

1480
01:34:43,590 --> 01:34:47,610
at the top end of podcast in the
two 3% of podcasting that gets

1481
01:34:47,610 --> 01:34:48,990
the headlines. Yeah, I'd

1482
01:34:48,990 --> 01:34:53,250
say 0.2%. But yeah, your point
is made. I think it's smaller.

1483
01:34:54,420 --> 01:34:54,870
Yeah, I

1484
01:34:54,870 --> 01:34:57,030
think I think you're probably
right. And it's fascinating

1485
01:34:57,030 --> 01:35:01,830
because as we know the industry
made up of people that aren't

1486
01:35:01,830 --> 01:35:04,590
that the hobbyists or the
enthusiasts, they're the people

1487
01:35:04,590 --> 01:35:06,660
that are on the periphery is
because they're working and

1488
01:35:06,660 --> 01:35:08,790
they're doing what they do. And
they love doing this thing, you

1489
01:35:08,790 --> 01:35:12,090
know, and it's, you're
absolutely right in the customer

1490
01:35:12,090 --> 01:35:14,370
support. And we saw this through
captivate, you know, Kira, and I

1491
01:35:14,370 --> 01:35:17,190
still work support, even though
we have a team because, well,

1492
01:35:17,190 --> 01:35:20,790
two reasons. Number one, you've
got to be in touch with the

1493
01:35:20,790 --> 01:35:23,130
people that are using the
platform if you're going to

1494
01:35:23,130 --> 01:35:27,420
develop the platform. And number
two, the time that people have

1495
01:35:27,420 --> 01:35:30,180
to produce their podcast is so
valuable to them, you know, if

1496
01:35:30,180 --> 01:35:32,820
you're producing a niche
knitting podcast here in the UK,

1497
01:35:32,820 --> 01:35:35,700
and I've actually got a friend
that does that. She can only

1498
01:35:35,700 --> 01:35:40,050
produce two hours per week, but
it's so important to to do that,

1499
01:35:40,050 --> 01:35:43,800
then when, when the service
provider isn't there when she

1500
01:35:43,800 --> 01:35:48,000
needs them. He doesn't just
damage your experience with the

1501
01:35:48,000 --> 01:35:51,150
service provider disheartens, or
against the media and the

1502
01:35:51,150 --> 01:35:53,640
production and she starts to to
look elsewhere.

1503
01:35:53,670 --> 01:35:56,100
That's a good point. That's a
really good point.

1504
01:35:57,240 --> 01:36:00,360
It's such a odd scenario,
because you know, very often,

1505
01:36:00,360 --> 01:36:03,390
and we I'm sure we all see this,
you know, we see podcasting

1506
01:36:03,390 --> 01:36:08,250
being compared to everything
from YouTube, to clubhouse. And

1507
01:36:08,250 --> 01:36:12,990
it's not that it's not the same,
because YouTube does his thing.

1508
01:36:13,260 --> 01:36:16,260
And he is not assumed the
service provider sits in the

1509
01:36:16,260 --> 01:36:18,600
middle and provide you with the
hand holding that you need to

1510
01:36:18,600 --> 01:36:19,590
enjoy everything. So

1511
01:36:19,590 --> 01:36:22,800
all they do is take you down or
D monetize you if you're a bad

1512
01:36:22,800 --> 01:36:25,860
boy, that's that's their entire
customer service right there.

1513
01:36:26,130 --> 01:36:29,520
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And
doing it the other way, if you

1514
01:36:29,520 --> 01:36:31,830
know, clubhouse and so on. It's
an app, you know, you log on,

1515
01:36:31,830 --> 01:36:34,290
and you're expected to have the
app experience and you sort of

1516
01:36:34,290 --> 01:36:38,130
know because it's an app. But if
something goes wrong, the

1517
01:36:38,130 --> 01:36:41,670
experience of support is more
than likely going to be a little

1518
01:36:41,670 --> 01:36:44,520
frustrating. But it's an app,
it's kind of it's fine. It's

1519
01:36:44,520 --> 01:36:47,250
sort of throwaway, we're all
right with our podcast is in

1520
01:36:47,250 --> 01:36:49,830
this weird middle ground where
it must matter so much to

1521
01:36:49,830 --> 01:36:53,220
people, because they believe in
it. But you can't take away the

1522
01:36:53,220 --> 01:36:56,430
personality of it and that your
eye is a missing piece of the

1523
01:36:56,430 --> 01:36:57,180
puzzle, I think,

1524
01:36:57,719 --> 01:37:02,249
yes, I feel like the big tech
companies, as a whole have taken

1525
01:37:02,249 --> 01:37:06,779
on this mindset of, well, if
we're big enough, we can just

1526
01:37:07,409 --> 01:37:12,869
basically engineer our way out
of customer support. Yes, we

1527
01:37:12,869 --> 01:37:16,499
can, we can throw enough money
and enough developers at a

1528
01:37:16,499 --> 01:37:20,459
problem to where eventually we
can write enough documentation

1529
01:37:20,819 --> 01:37:26,549
and create a product that works
with enough granularity to make

1530
01:37:26,549 --> 01:37:29,999
it where nobody needs help
anymore. And that is, that is

1531
01:37:29,999 --> 01:37:33,689
bullshit. That doesn't work. You
can't do that. And you see it

1532
01:37:33,689 --> 01:37:37,199
day in and day out with with big
tech, their answer is basically

1533
01:37:37,229 --> 01:37:42,479
is always rtfm. And you know
what? That's just not a good,

1534
01:37:42,509 --> 01:37:45,209
that's just not always the right
answer. People, people need

1535
01:37:45,209 --> 01:37:49,049
help. I mean, we, we have, you
know, we're a, we're a donation

1536
01:37:49,049 --> 01:37:52,409
based thing. We just do this as
a side gig. I'm doing this

1537
01:37:52,409 --> 01:37:58,169
podcast on my lunch break. But
we still have to be near we

1538
01:37:58,169 --> 01:38:01,139
still have users and people use
our API and our index and we

1539
01:38:01,139 --> 01:38:04,739
still when they pop into our
mastodon group with with

1540
01:38:04,829 --> 01:38:08,429
questions or problems, you know,
we get we get somebody gotta

1541
01:38:08,429 --> 01:38:11,009
give them an answer. I mean, we
can't just say, you know, oh,

1542
01:38:11,009 --> 01:38:13,829
well, you know, rtfm I mean,
here's the good, here's

1543
01:38:13,830 --> 01:38:15,750
the GitHub. Yeah,

1544
01:38:15,780 --> 01:38:19,440
yeah. I mean, that really
doesn't cut it. And I think that

1545
01:38:19,560 --> 01:38:22,830
that really if you chop that
thing out of the podcasting

1546
01:38:22,830 --> 01:38:25,470
world, you damage podcasting
infinitely

1547
01:38:26,580 --> 01:38:32,640
Do you guys have majority UK
customers or is across the board

1548
01:38:32,640 --> 01:38:34,800
from all countries? What what's
prevalent

1549
01:38:36,180 --> 01:38:40,950
these primarily us Oh really?
Well. No, it's not and when I

1550
01:38:40,950 --> 01:38:44,190
say primarily I'm not talking
you know, 8020 or 90 1080 sort

1551
01:38:44,190 --> 01:38:49,770
of 60% us and then here and I
think what 25 30% uk and then

1552
01:38:49,800 --> 01:38:50,550
the remainder

1553
01:38:50,850 --> 01:38:57,690
yeah 25% uk or 20% Uk then I
think quite a bit in Europe

1554
01:38:58,650 --> 01:39:01,830
quite a bit in Australia as well
and I think with Australia and

1555
01:39:01,830 --> 01:39:03,750
New Zealand we're starting to
get Are you

1556
01:39:03,750 --> 01:39:06,870
guys are which is interesting.
You guys a UK company.

1557
01:39:08,460 --> 01:39:11,490
Yes, we sat here in the UK right
now. Yeah, founded in Sheffield.

1558
01:39:11,490 --> 01:39:14,910
And although a lot of people do
think we're from the US because

1559
01:39:15,300 --> 01:39:19,110
the only time they see us is at
podcasting conferences so they

1560
01:39:19,110 --> 01:39:21,330
attend like the one that they
attend each year we're always

1561
01:39:21,330 --> 01:39:24,240
out so they always assume that
we're in the US but yes,

1562
01:39:24,810 --> 01:39:28,380
you have a great you have a
great name it's very it feels

1563
01:39:28,380 --> 01:39:31,050
very American to me that's why
and to me when I when I hit

1564
01:39:31,050 --> 01:39:33,780
captivate FM like these guys are
the pirates man. They're like

1565
01:39:33,780 --> 01:39:36,870
they got it. I don't know if
that's intentional if that was

1566
01:39:36,870 --> 01:39:40,230
what you want, but it always
gives me a kind of a this is a

1567
01:39:40,230 --> 01:39:42,420
cool guys. I want to be with
captivate. They're doing

1568
01:39:42,420 --> 01:39:42,930
something.

1569
01:39:43,890 --> 01:39:46,530
Oh, well thank you very much.
That was actually Jess Koppelman

1570
01:39:46,950 --> 01:39:50,040
of she podcasts that sort of
captivate we were, we were

1571
01:39:50,040 --> 01:39:51,960
chatting, we did a little bit of
work together and Jess and I

1572
01:39:51,960 --> 01:39:54,090
were going to put some content
out and we were thinking of a

1573
01:39:54,090 --> 01:39:56,040
name for it and she said we
should call it captivate.

1574
01:39:56,370 --> 01:39:59,880
Because you want to want to
captivate your audience and she

1575
01:39:59,880 --> 01:40:02,550
said Jess, can I use that for
the hosting platform? And just

1576
01:40:02,550 --> 01:40:05,430
be in jest you said yes.
Interesting. But then, yeah, she

1577
01:40:05,430 --> 01:40:07,110
never lets me forget that. He
was done.

1578
01:40:07,650 --> 01:40:08,370
publish this, but

1579
01:40:09,389 --> 01:40:13,439
you both live in northern
England. Yeah. Yes, no. Well, I

1580
01:40:13,439 --> 01:40:16,799
asked for very specific reason
because Dave and I, although

1581
01:40:17,009 --> 01:40:19,379
we're not new to this, we've
we've never really done this

1582
01:40:19,379 --> 01:40:22,559
with guys from the UK. And I
think it's, I think it's time

1583
01:40:22,559 --> 01:40:23,369
for some pots.

1584
01:40:24,180 --> 01:40:25,770
And now it's time for us to

1585
01:40:27,060 --> 01:40:28,020
namespace

1586
01:40:28,050 --> 01:40:30,900
we're doing it with British
guys. I'm sorry, guys from

1587
01:40:30,900 --> 01:40:33,090
England. Don't want to mess that
up.

1588
01:40:33,360 --> 01:40:33,990
Yeah.

1589
01:40:35,010 --> 01:40:40,170
Be very careful. Let's talk
podcasting. 2.0. Dave?

1590
01:40:40,500 --> 01:40:44,220
Yeah, yeah, we y'all were one of
the first groups to jump on

1591
01:40:44,220 --> 01:40:47,940
board with with the indexes and
start, you know, making plans to

1592
01:40:48,090 --> 01:40:53,490
get onto the namespace tags. And
one thing I want to bring up

1593
01:40:53,490 --> 01:40:59,040
those Kieran you put in, you
proposed a trailer tag? Is that

1594
01:40:59,040 --> 01:41:02,010
something that your your
customers are asking for is

1595
01:41:02,010 --> 01:41:04,140
like, Where Where did that need
arise for you?

1596
01:41:05,550 --> 01:41:08,010
is another one from Mark,
actually, you know, one of those

1597
01:41:08,220 --> 01:41:10,950
good ideas that you know, come
from myself. And Mark just

1598
01:41:10,950 --> 01:41:14,970
chatted about it? Yes, comment
before where you know, the whole

1599
01:41:15,000 --> 01:41:19,740
300 episodes on one feed, and
then your trailer drops off, and

1600
01:41:19,740 --> 01:41:21,420
then you've got no access to
your trailer. So then you've

1601
01:41:21,420 --> 01:41:25,290
kind of got a pack around it by
changing the published day or,

1602
01:41:25,770 --> 01:41:28,950
you know, doing something a bit
more manual. So yeah, it come up

1603
01:41:28,950 --> 01:41:29,940
from from that edema?

1604
01:41:32,130 --> 01:41:35,010
Yeah, yeah, it was, it was one
of those those challenges, I

1605
01:41:35,010 --> 01:41:38,070
think with the seasons as well,
when when Apple first introduced

1606
01:41:38,100 --> 01:41:43,200
the ability to pop something in
as a season. I was, at the time,

1607
01:41:43,200 --> 01:41:45,030
I remember doing a talk at
podcast movement. And I was

1608
01:41:45,030 --> 01:41:47,970
talking about how it's bad made
my show. But my archives

1609
01:41:47,970 --> 01:41:52,230
seasonal, whereby i'd split the
feed what kept my original feed

1610
01:41:52,230 --> 01:41:54,870
from a new show. And then I'd
sort of split and categorize

1611
01:41:54,870 --> 01:41:57,780
things into these evergreen
seasons. And it felt quite cool

1612
01:41:57,780 --> 01:42:00,060
a time when Apple came along.
And just, you know, there are

1613
01:42:00,060 --> 01:42:03,630
new seasonal options. Okay,
well, thank you for that. And it

1614
01:42:03,630 --> 01:42:07,110
was it was on the back of that a
trailer. I'm a big fan of

1615
01:42:07,110 --> 01:42:10,260
trailers. Whenever we talk to
new podcasters about launching

1616
01:42:10,260 --> 01:42:12,840
their show, I sort of get
personally, because my

1617
01:42:12,840 --> 01:42:15,300
background is sort of brand and
marketing, I'll get a little bit

1618
01:42:15,300 --> 01:42:18,420
frustrated with the social media
marketing that podcasters do,

1619
01:42:18,420 --> 01:42:25,680
which is always I have new show
I have new guests. Which is

1620
01:42:25,680 --> 01:42:28,230
tough. You know, you'd be
browsing Twitter, I don't want

1621
01:42:28,230 --> 01:42:30,330
to listen to a 15 minute
episode, because I'm busy, you

1622
01:42:30,330 --> 01:42:33,330
know, but give me a teaser. But
I saw the trailer thing is

1623
01:42:33,780 --> 01:42:36,840
something that could be expanded
and Kirin's. I'll be honest with

1624
01:42:36,840 --> 01:42:39,270
you here is downplaying his part
in that I just said, wouldn't it

1625
01:42:39,270 --> 01:42:41,880
be cool to have trailers that
were better, and he spent that

1626
01:42:41,880 --> 01:42:44,580
entire thing out? So I think
you've been a bit coy back here.

1627
01:42:45,930 --> 01:42:49,050
Well, I think tags that are
often a phrase, wherever I think

1628
01:42:49,050 --> 01:42:52,230
tags that originate from hosts,
though, are, are extremely

1629
01:42:52,230 --> 01:42:56,070
valuable, because it's a direct
pipeline to, you know, to needs

1630
01:42:56,070 --> 01:43:01,440
like real world needs. And I
think the current definition of

1631
01:43:01,440 --> 01:43:05,490
that in the proposal, and I
think it's an it's a slam dunk

1632
01:43:05,490 --> 01:43:08,580
for me, nobody's really had a
single problem with it at all.

1633
01:43:08,730 --> 01:43:11,670
But the current way that is
structured is that you would be

1634
01:43:11,670 --> 01:43:15,360
able to, to address a trailer,
which would be a separate audio

1635
01:43:15,360 --> 01:43:19,350
file, and then you it would tie
into the season tags. So you can

1636
01:43:19,350 --> 01:43:22,140
say, you know, you have a
trailer for season one and

1637
01:43:22,140 --> 01:43:24,870
another one for season two. And
that kind of thing. Does that

1638
01:43:25,020 --> 01:43:29,700
kind of fit the scope of what
you're looking for? Yeah, my

1639
01:43:31,710 --> 01:43:32,790
God, so I can jump in?

1640
01:43:33,570 --> 01:43:36,660
No, no, no, I said you could do
most It's okay. But now you you

1641
01:43:36,660 --> 01:43:43,500
interrupt, he's fine. So I'm
dealing with guys. Not from a

1642
01:43:43,500 --> 01:43:46,890
technical point of view. Now
he's he's perfect, you know,

1643
01:43:47,220 --> 01:43:49,350
perfect. Mark's point of view.

1644
01:43:51,120 --> 01:43:55,320
Here my point of view is more
about I'm really keen on the the

1645
01:43:55,320 --> 01:43:58,320
acquisition flow of listeners,
how we acquire listeners and

1646
01:43:58,320 --> 01:44:01,950
turn them into to actual
subscribers and funds. And I

1647
01:44:01,950 --> 01:44:04,650
think anytime you can give
someone an easy entry point, and

1648
01:44:04,650 --> 01:44:07,350
the spec is perfect for it,
because I think that the

1649
01:44:07,350 --> 01:44:09,450
inherent issue at the minute
with trailers is that you've got

1650
01:44:09,450 --> 01:44:12,210
one single entry point, but it
doesn't fit all types of

1651
01:44:12,210 --> 01:44:16,560
podcast. Whereas what I love
about the new spec is that if

1652
01:44:16,560 --> 01:44:19,380
you do produce an audio drama,
or a fictional podcast in

1653
01:44:19,380 --> 01:44:23,460
seasons, or you've got different
types, you know, maybe a sort of

1654
01:44:23,460 --> 01:44:25,860
Black Mirror esque where
everything's a little different.

1655
01:44:26,460 --> 01:44:28,650
It gives you multiple entry
points where you can really

1656
01:44:28,650 --> 01:44:32,640
start to do some marketing,
which I think is problematic for

1657
01:44:32,640 --> 01:44:35,190
most podcasters. So I think
expect fantastically, and I

1658
01:44:35,190 --> 01:44:37,080
think I don't think it's a
surprise, there's not been much

1659
01:44:37,080 --> 01:44:37,740
pushback on it.

1660
01:44:38,280 --> 01:44:42,030
Well, that that brings up
another thing. So the one of the

1661
01:44:42,030 --> 01:44:44,100
things that may have been
overlooked with all the stuff

1662
01:44:44,100 --> 01:44:49,470
from Apple, their announcement,
because it has been it's been so

1663
01:44:49,470 --> 01:44:52,110
disruptive on a technical level.
One of the things that may have

1664
01:44:52,110 --> 01:44:56,640
been overlooked is the fact that
they have a new this thing

1665
01:44:56,640 --> 01:45:00,720
called an app called Smart play
button where it says Hosted take

1666
01:45:00,720 --> 01:45:07,140
you sort of into if it's an
episodic podcast is supposed to

1667
01:45:07,140 --> 01:45:09,390
take you to sort of, or excuse
me, a seasonal podcast is

1668
01:45:09,390 --> 01:45:13,260
supposed to take you to like,
episode one and start from there

1669
01:45:13,470 --> 01:45:16,470
of that season. And if it's
episodic, it just starts you out

1670
01:45:16,470 --> 01:45:20,340
at the at the most recent, and
it has sort of different, you

1671
01:45:20,340 --> 01:45:22,950
can just hit play and pick up
from where you need to be. And I

1672
01:45:22,950 --> 01:45:27,030
think that is something that
could be in the namespace in the

1673
01:45:27,030 --> 01:45:32,160
RSS feed as well, you could say,
Okay, I think we can define some

1674
01:45:32,460 --> 01:45:39,420
sort of guidance to the app to
let the creator decide where the

1675
01:45:39,420 --> 01:45:42,210
listener is going to have the
best experience of starting

1676
01:45:42,210 --> 01:45:46,380
from. And I think that goes
along, sort of with the trailers

1677
01:45:46,380 --> 01:45:49,350
and the seasons, and all that
jazz, if you, you know, the way

1678
01:45:49,350 --> 01:45:52,740
Apple's doing it is, it's just
like, you know, magic, you're

1679
01:45:52,740 --> 01:45:56,160
suppose you just, you know, dump
a bunch of stuff into your

1680
01:45:56,160 --> 01:45:59,340
podcast, and they'll figure it
out. But, you know, from a from

1681
01:45:59,340 --> 01:46:02,880
a namespace, and from an RSS
perspective, we can easily

1682
01:46:02,880 --> 01:46:05,940
replicate that same behavior,
but actually give the creator

1683
01:46:06,390 --> 01:46:10,170
the the appropriate control over
that deal. Do you agree with

1684
01:46:10,170 --> 01:46:10,320
that?

1685
01:46:10,320 --> 01:46:13,950
Yeah. I mean, that's quite cool.
I mean, if you think about it

1686
01:46:13,950 --> 01:46:16,680
from like, a TV show point of
view. So I'm watching the TV

1687
01:46:16,680 --> 01:46:20,580
show. You know, it's like, the
first two minutes is a recap of

1688
01:46:20,700 --> 01:46:24,270
the previous episode, or by you
know, you're watching season

1689
01:46:24,270 --> 01:46:27,330
two, and the first episode of
season two includes like, a

1690
01:46:27,330 --> 01:46:30,060
minute or two of a recap of
season one, you know, the

1691
01:46:30,060 --> 01:46:33,450
ability to have trailers or even
Recaps of previous seasons for

1692
01:46:33,660 --> 01:46:35,820
certain types of podcast, you
know, audio drama, style

1693
01:46:35,820 --> 01:46:38,280
podcasts? No, it's really
interesting.

1694
01:46:39,570 --> 01:46:41,820
That is, that is interesting.
Yes, yeah, I think we can do

1695
01:46:41,820 --> 01:46:45,480
that, too. Because the smart
play thing, it makes a lot of

1696
01:46:45,480 --> 01:46:48,600
sense. I think it's a cool idea.
And I think we can easily put

1697
01:46:48,600 --> 01:46:53,370
that into the namespace
somewhere, to get to give an app

1698
01:46:53,400 --> 01:46:55,740
guidance as to where to start. I
mean, that just seems like low

1699
01:46:55,740 --> 01:46:56,730
hanging fruit to me.

1700
01:46:58,800 --> 01:47:02,760
Yeah, I think it would be good
to sort of from an adoption

1701
01:47:02,760 --> 01:47:06,480
perspective, or what we tend to
see with with many users,

1702
01:47:06,480 --> 01:47:09,480
because, you know, rewind back
to my friend who does the

1703
01:47:09,480 --> 01:47:13,140
knitting podcast in one or two
hours per week, she saw a little

1704
01:47:13,140 --> 01:47:17,340
bit push for time, and I think
they're adopting an approach

1705
01:47:17,850 --> 01:47:19,950
across all hosting providers,
you know, where we can

1706
01:47:19,950 --> 01:47:23,940
collaborate and say, actually,
look here. Here are the range of

1707
01:47:23,940 --> 01:47:26,520
new tags, you know, phase one,
phase two, phase three. And

1708
01:47:26,520 --> 01:47:29,520
broadly speaking, as hosting
companies, you know, we can sort

1709
01:47:29,520 --> 01:47:32,700
of market the use of those tags
in two different tranches, you

1710
01:47:32,700 --> 01:47:36,390
know, tranche one, is this tag
helps the listener experience,

1711
01:47:36,390 --> 01:47:39,960
and this tranche helps the
creator experience. So you know,

1712
01:47:39,960 --> 01:47:43,770
funding versus trailer, you
know, one could be popped, or

1713
01:47:43,770 --> 01:47:47,130
marketed as creator experience,
one has listener experience. And

1714
01:47:47,700 --> 01:47:51,600
the reason I say that, is that,
because these people are so time

1715
01:47:51,600 --> 01:47:54,210
bound, and so concerned about
awareness that this hobby

1716
01:47:54,630 --> 01:47:57,060
suddenly become a little bit
busier, I've got to spend a

1717
01:47:57,060 --> 01:48:00,060
little bit more time doing it,
what should I do? And when

1718
01:48:00,060 --> 01:48:03,930
should I do it? And what's vital
and what's not? I think, sort of

1719
01:48:03,930 --> 01:48:08,880
a standardized experience group
and would be fascinating,

1720
01:48:08,880 --> 01:48:11,880
because then we can collectively
market Well, okay, look, if you

1721
01:48:11,880 --> 01:48:15,690
are short on time, we know that
good listener experience results

1722
01:48:15,690 --> 01:48:20,070
in in more growth and success
and less attrition. Do these

1723
01:48:20,070 --> 01:48:23,280
three things with your, your
your trailer target, and the

1724
01:48:23,280 --> 01:48:26,370
other tags, the location tag,
and so on. That's listener

1725
01:48:26,370 --> 01:48:29,040
experience, if you've only got a
little bit of time, do these

1726
01:48:29,040 --> 01:48:32,160
ones. And as a hosting company,
we've we've taken some of the

1727
01:48:32,160 --> 01:48:34,380
burden from you, you know, we've
done a little bit of work as

1728
01:48:34,380 --> 01:48:39,270
much as we can. I think adoption
for the busy podcaster is a

1729
01:48:39,270 --> 01:48:41,610
really fascinating challenge for
us to solve.

1730
01:48:42,089 --> 01:48:44,609
And that's kind of that's
actually that's the flip side of

1731
01:48:44,609 --> 01:48:49,469
what Dave was talking about,
where big tech, traditionally is

1732
01:48:49,469 --> 01:48:51,629
like, throw some developers at
it, we'll come up with a

1733
01:48:51,629 --> 01:48:54,269
solution, we'll code our ways
out of it. And this is the

1734
01:48:54,269 --> 01:48:57,449
inverse, where you're looking at
the problems your actual

1735
01:48:57,449 --> 01:49:00,539
customers have. And they say,
Okay, let's see if we can solve

1736
01:49:00,569 --> 01:49:04,319
this specific thing right here.
Can we make that easier? Or does

1737
01:49:04,319 --> 01:49:06,209
that remain in customer support?

1738
01:49:07,920 --> 01:49:10,500
Yeah, that is a great point,
actually. And I think if we

1739
01:49:10,560 --> 01:49:13,500
extrapolate that a bit further,
you sort of got the, because we

1740
01:49:13,500 --> 01:49:16,890
talked about those headlines,
then with a nought point 2% of

1741
01:49:16,890 --> 01:49:21,840
the podcasters that generate
most of the news. The the

1742
01:49:21,840 --> 01:49:25,320
worries that come because the
podcast industry is changing so

1743
01:49:25,320 --> 01:49:28,920
much, how does a podcaster
separate from podcasting 2.0 and

1744
01:49:28,920 --> 01:49:31,860
the new tags a new namespace?
How do the separate that from

1745
01:49:32,160 --> 01:49:36,660
luminary Deus Ex, you know,
bombarded with this techno sort

1746
01:49:36,660 --> 01:49:40,770
of pre empting the concerns and
I think that's one of the

1747
01:49:40,770 --> 01:49:45,540
hosting platforms to say like
our job is to distill and remove

1748
01:49:45,540 --> 01:49:49,440
worry, like that's the only
reason we exist. You know,

1749
01:49:50,160 --> 01:49:52,830
that is that is, you know, this
thank you that very, that's

1750
01:49:52,830 --> 01:49:58,530
helping me with a lot of my
thinking, our primary way into

1751
01:49:58,860 --> 01:50:02,820
getting Someone up and running
is I mean, obviously, you need a

1752
01:50:02,820 --> 01:50:05,640
host, but the whole education
process takes place there as

1753
01:50:05,640 --> 01:50:06,060
well.

1754
01:50:07,980 --> 01:50:12,870
He does. And I think what a lot
of a lot of hosting companies

1755
01:50:12,870 --> 01:50:16,110
can do, and not I don't want to
say a hosting company, cuz

1756
01:50:16,110 --> 01:50:18,150
that's unfair. But I think Dave
was right, you think you're

1757
01:50:18,150 --> 01:50:20,910
right about the big tech thing,
what a lot of tech companies,

1758
01:50:20,910 --> 01:50:25,770
not just big tech can do is they
can, they can assume that it's

1759
01:50:25,800 --> 01:50:30,480
on the podcaster, or the user to
seek out the education. And for

1760
01:50:30,480 --> 01:50:34,410
us, we have to preempt the
worrying thing, that's the key

1761
01:50:34,410 --> 01:50:39,330
phrase, you know, preempt that
worry. And sort of take a little

1762
01:50:39,330 --> 01:50:40,080
bit of stress,

1763
01:50:40,140 --> 01:50:43,110
I think that's the big thing. So
it would be great, then, if all

1764
01:50:43,110 --> 01:50:47,460
hosting companies would start an
educational Pro, I'm not saying

1765
01:50:47,460 --> 01:50:50,910
they haven't. But start an
educational program that says,

1766
01:50:50,910 --> 01:50:56,520
okay, you know, here's, I mean,
everyone has the works with

1767
01:50:56,520 --> 01:50:59,940
Apple, iTunes works with
Spotify, you'll be able to hear

1768
01:50:59,940 --> 01:51:03,420
it here, it works on here, and
this and this, it would be great

1769
01:51:03,420 --> 01:51:07,350
to somehow start educating
people about podcasting 2.0

1770
01:51:07,560 --> 01:51:11,970
those features, why you may want
to because, you know, podcasters

1771
01:51:11,970 --> 01:51:16,650
are the best marketers, you
know, when a podcaster is, is

1772
01:51:16,650 --> 01:51:21,090
using transcripts, or chapters,
or chapter images, and they say,

1773
01:51:21,090 --> 01:51:23,820
Hey, you know, this is some
extra stuff I'm doing over here,

1774
01:51:24,600 --> 01:51:29,610
take a look. And you can see it
in these apps. People do that.

1775
01:51:30,090 --> 01:51:33,270
And people try it out. And then
if you're lucky, if the if the

1776
01:51:33,270 --> 01:51:36,870
app is where someone wants it to
be, they'll keep using it,

1777
01:51:36,900 --> 01:51:39,540
though they may start using it
more than we use it only for

1778
01:51:39,540 --> 01:51:42,960
that show, they may reach out to
the developer and say, Hey, you

1779
01:51:42,960 --> 01:51:45,720
know, something's not right
here. Can you fix this? Or I'd

1780
01:51:45,720 --> 01:51:49,350
love this behavior. That's the
education process. I'd love to

1781
01:51:49,350 --> 01:51:53,130
see hosting companies engaging
more I know everyone's busy. I

1782
01:51:53,130 --> 01:51:55,710
know it's it's tough to it's an
it's not an easy thing to

1783
01:51:55,710 --> 01:51:58,800
explain why why are there
different apps? Why do they have

1784
01:51:58,800 --> 01:52:00,990
different behaviors, your
thoughts on that?

1785
01:52:02,520 --> 01:52:07,620
I think is part of the job. I
always use the example of

1786
01:52:09,210 --> 01:52:11,940
whatever, whatever example I'm
using of like a podcast host or

1787
01:52:11,940 --> 01:52:15,690
a podcaster. Someone that is
basically saying how do I make

1788
01:52:15,690 --> 01:52:19,050
my business or my stuff better?
I always make the analogy of

1789
01:52:19,050 --> 01:52:22,470
like, imagine a plumber turning
up at your house. And he is only

1790
01:52:22,770 --> 01:52:26,670
the only thing that he is good
at his plumbing. And you think

1791
01:52:26,670 --> 01:52:29,130
well, that's kind of the
baseline like you, that's why

1792
01:52:29,130 --> 01:52:32,730
you're here. That's the sole
reason that you are here doing

1793
01:52:32,730 --> 01:52:36,630
this thing right now. But he's
everything else. That makes me

1794
01:52:36,630 --> 01:52:39,180
number one, remember, your
number two, recommend you a

1795
01:52:39,180 --> 01:52:43,350
number three, decide that you do
not soak base, everything else

1796
01:52:43,860 --> 01:52:49,500
is like the baseline. So I think
this education is is the host is

1797
01:52:49,500 --> 01:52:51,900
the baseline, the RSS feed to
the baseline, no one should be

1798
01:52:51,900 --> 01:52:56,550
applauded for providing good
analytics. That's the basic. So

1799
01:52:57,000 --> 01:53:00,840
the education is where we can
stand out. And I think one of

1800
01:53:00,840 --> 01:53:04,890
the challenges in podcast
hosting as well, it's everyone

1801
01:53:04,890 --> 01:53:09,870
gets a little, like little
antagonistic at times where it's

1802
01:53:09,870 --> 01:53:12,240
sort of, well, we're better than
them, or they're better than

1803
01:53:12,240 --> 01:53:14,520
them. And it's I don't see any
point in that, like, we've

1804
01:53:15,450 --> 01:53:16,590
talked about approaches.

1805
01:53:16,620 --> 01:53:20,670
So can I can I expect to see so
I'm not and if I can help let me

1806
01:53:20,670 --> 01:53:24,990
know. I mean, I'd love to see
your page with Apple, Spotify,

1807
01:53:24,990 --> 01:53:30,330
Google, Amazon, Stitcher, Deezer
player and sovereign. Alden. I'd

1808
01:53:30,330 --> 01:53:35,700
love to see, you know, more
podcast 2.0 or any podcast 2.0

1809
01:53:35,700 --> 01:53:40,020
apps on that page. And, and, you
know, if there's anything I can

1810
01:53:40,020 --> 01:53:43,380
do to help educate your
customers and tell them what,

1811
01:53:43,830 --> 01:53:46,410
you know, what the benefit is of
transcripts and where they do

1812
01:53:46,410 --> 01:53:49,620
and don't work, I mean, let me
know. Happy to help in any of

1813
01:53:49,620 --> 01:53:50,040
that.

1814
01:53:51,090 --> 01:53:53,160
Thank you. Appreciate that.
Yeah, we've got some some big

1815
01:53:53,160 --> 01:53:54,930
design work going on at the
minute. So guys, if you're

1816
01:53:54,930 --> 01:53:57,180
listening, that's a little bit
of work for you. But we've got

1817
01:53:57,180 --> 01:53:57,240
to

1818
01:53:58,350 --> 01:54:01,560
push it off on gas. Okay, fine.
Good old gas.

1819
01:54:02,400 --> 01:54:03,360
He doesn't even exist.

1820
01:54:05,880 --> 01:54:08,460
That's the humor. I like there
it is, ladies and gentlemen,

1821
01:54:08,580 --> 01:54:10,590
five years in the UK and now I
get it.

1822
01:54:11,940 --> 01:54:14,070
No, thank you for that. In all
seriousness, yeah, well, we will

1823
01:54:14,070 --> 01:54:15,390
absolutely take you up on that.

1824
01:54:16,470 --> 01:54:20,760
That I think this is critical
because what we're seeing from

1825
01:54:20,790 --> 01:54:25,170
you know, now Apple clearly
Spotify these and Google they'll

1826
01:54:25,200 --> 01:54:27,420
they'll jump in the mix
eventually they all these guys

1827
01:54:27,420 --> 01:54:29,670
copycat each other. That's
that's half of what they know

1828
01:54:29,670 --> 01:54:33,840
how to do that, you know, like,
it's, it's so critical. We've

1829
01:54:33,990 --> 01:54:37,830
been saying this for a while is
that RSS and the open ecosystem,

1830
01:54:37,830 --> 01:54:42,630
the the open podcast ecosystem
built on RSS, can can do all of

1831
01:54:42,630 --> 01:54:48,120
these things. It can do there's
there's none of these nothing is

1832
01:54:48,330 --> 01:54:53,850
is off limits or not possible
within the open RSS podcasting

1833
01:54:53,850 --> 01:54:58,170
ecosystem. That is possible
within a silo, and and what and

1834
01:54:58,170 --> 01:55:00,510
when I say nothing, I mean
nothing that any Buddy would

1835
01:55:00,600 --> 01:55:05,370
would consider to be valuable to
the listener, because that's

1836
01:55:05,370 --> 01:55:09,690
really where ultimately what
this is about. Because even

1837
01:55:09,690 --> 01:55:12,840
though even what's valuable to
the creator comes back through

1838
01:55:12,900 --> 01:55:15,810
what is valuable to the
listener, that mean ultimately,

1839
01:55:15,810 --> 01:55:20,640
that's all that matters. And so
it in there's nothing in the, in

1840
01:55:20,640 --> 01:55:25,110
the open ecosystem that can't be
done and match or exceed

1841
01:55:25,140 --> 01:55:28,470
anything that can be done within
apple or Spotify or these these

1842
01:55:28,590 --> 01:55:32,850
sort of vertical stacks. We can
do all this stuff we can do. We

1843
01:55:32,850 --> 01:55:35,940
know we can do the payments,
we've already proven that the

1844
01:55:36,510 --> 01:55:40,530
payments work, we can do polls
that works right now, in theory,

1845
01:55:40,560 --> 01:55:44,580
you can iframe a chapter, a
chapter marker, there's all

1846
01:55:44,580 --> 01:55:48,120
these things that they talk
about as if RSS is holding back.

1847
01:55:48,480 --> 01:55:52,110
Progress is complete, complete
baloney. The thing is, we just

1848
01:55:52,110 --> 01:55:56,010
have to do it, you know, that
you can you can you can envision

1849
01:55:56,010 --> 01:55:59,220
ways to do it. But that doesn't
help anybody. I mean, you

1850
01:55:59,220 --> 01:56:01,260
actually have to actually do it.

1851
01:56:02,010 --> 01:56:04,260
And what Yeah, what are you
going to get now? I mean, and,

1852
01:56:04,560 --> 01:56:07,650
by the way, I see I also have a
creator briefing from Apple,

1853
01:56:07,650 --> 01:56:10,740
that's nice. Where tomorrow,
where you're going to see now is

1854
01:56:10,830 --> 01:56:14,820
a lot of your customers will be
very curious, you know, what is

1855
01:56:14,820 --> 01:56:18,480
this? What do I do? How to do?
Or should I do it? What is DRM?

1856
01:56:18,540 --> 01:56:20,580
I mean, these are the things
that really putting a huge

1857
01:56:20,580 --> 01:56:25,380
burden burden on you guys to
educate people and, and just the

1858
01:56:25,380 --> 01:56:28,920
more I think about it, that so
I'm so happy that we immediately

1859
01:56:28,920 --> 01:56:31,980
involved hosting companies and,
and the involvement that they've

1860
01:56:31,980 --> 01:56:35,370
shown an interest they've shown
and development cycles that have

1861
01:56:35,370 --> 01:56:38,760
been dedicated to podcasting.
2.0 is very much appreciated.

1862
01:56:39,120 --> 01:56:43,920
Because the only thing that's
left is, is a couple of people

1863
01:56:43,920 --> 01:56:46,590
tweeting, you know, hey, we got
some cool over here, come take a

1864
01:56:46,590 --> 01:56:49,440
look at Hey, that guy's doing
something cool. I mean, that's

1865
01:56:49,440 --> 01:56:55,230
not an educational process by
any means. And and it is exactly

1866
01:56:55,230 --> 01:56:59,580
companies like captivate who are
going to who can in fact steer

1867
01:56:59,580 --> 01:57:04,830
the future of podcasting period,
you can steer the future of

1868
01:57:05,100 --> 01:57:08,250
podcasting with your education
towards your existing and new

1869
01:57:08,250 --> 01:57:09,000
customers.

1870
01:57:10,440 --> 01:57:17,730
Yeah. Right. Don't just go back
to you know, just talk about the

1871
01:57:17,730 --> 01:57:21,300
other point that, you know, RSS
isn't isn't a hindrance, you

1872
01:57:21,300 --> 01:57:25,380
know, I think, yeah, maybe in
times where data service was a

1873
01:57:25,380 --> 01:57:27,570
lot less than, you know, you
struggle to download, like a one

1874
01:57:27,570 --> 01:57:31,530
megabyte file. But, you know,
now, you know, an RSS feed that

1875
01:57:31,560 --> 01:57:35,550
there's much bigger is not a
problem. And, you know, there

1876
01:57:35,550 --> 01:57:39,090
isn't as much as an issue as it
used to be. So it doesn't matter

1877
01:57:39,090 --> 01:57:41,490
how long the RSS feed is, you
know, that's pretty much why the

1878
01:57:41,490 --> 01:57:44,880
RSS feeds were limited to, you
know, 300 episodes because, you

1879
01:57:44,880 --> 01:57:46,650
know, he needed to be smaller,

1880
01:57:46,679 --> 01:57:49,169
right, which which is, which is
actually more in trouble. That's

1881
01:57:49,169 --> 01:57:53,489
actually one of I think one of
Apple's USPS, there's now you

1882
01:57:53,489 --> 01:57:57,119
can unlock the entire archive,
upload it all to us. We'll DRM

1883
01:57:57,119 --> 01:57:59,639
it. No problem. Yeah, I

1884
01:57:59,640 --> 01:58:00,240
bet they will.

1885
01:58:03,390 --> 01:58:06,150
DRM stuff, you've got to upload
the you've got to upload either

1886
01:58:06,150 --> 01:58:10,770
a WAV file or a five by 11.
Yeah. I'm not sure if they will

1887
01:58:10,770 --> 01:58:13,140
do anything or mp3. And again,
that is education.

1888
01:58:13,170 --> 01:58:16,080
I don't even think they'll put
it in. They're not even gonna

1889
01:58:16,080 --> 01:58:21,240
output an mp3. No way. It's
gonna be mp4 I'm sure or AC or

1890
01:58:21,240 --> 01:58:24,510
whatever. Format works. And Wow,
man, they're gonna do the

1891
01:58:24,510 --> 01:58:27,270
compression for you and
everything. Holy crap. No way in

1892
01:58:27,270 --> 01:58:30,570
hell. That's just crazy.

1893
01:58:30,630 --> 01:58:31,770
That's just for an audio guy.

1894
01:58:31,800 --> 01:58:37,260
No, not for an audio guy at all.
But yeah, I mean, so that's,

1895
01:58:37,290 --> 01:58:39,720
that's kind of an eye opener for
me. I hadn't really considered

1896
01:58:39,720 --> 01:58:43,020
just how important until this
conversation. I was new as

1897
01:58:43,020 --> 01:58:47,070
important. But damn, you guys
are really, really do it. You

1898
01:58:47,070 --> 01:58:51,180
are the School of podcasting as
well for for your customers. And

1899
01:58:51,180 --> 01:58:53,880
it's an ongoing education. It
does not stop.

1900
01:58:55,620 --> 01:58:58,170
You know, it's tough as well,
actually. I'm thinking I'm not

1901
01:58:58,170 --> 01:59:00,330
saying this from our side, but
I'm saying it from a podcaster

1902
01:59:00,330 --> 01:59:05,070
side, because they only feel one
of two ways. When an

1903
01:59:05,070 --> 01:59:07,920
announcement comes out there.
They feel either terrified

1904
01:59:07,920 --> 01:59:12,720
because they're worried about
the more work or the the lack of

1905
01:59:12,720 --> 01:59:15,060
technical understanding, oh
dear, I've just learned how to

1906
01:59:15,060 --> 01:59:17,850
do this thing in podcasting,
with my mic and my editing and

1907
01:59:17,880 --> 01:59:22,530
publishing. Now, here's another
technical hurdle, or they feel

1908
01:59:22,530 --> 01:59:26,430
excited. They want to dive in,
but they don't know what the

1909
01:59:26,490 --> 01:59:27,840
impact the outcome

1910
01:59:28,590 --> 01:59:30,150
will be. Right? Right.

1911
01:59:30,870 --> 01:59:34,680
Because so many people see see
podcasting as a Boolean. You

1912
01:59:34,680 --> 01:59:37,980
know, only there are only two
outcomes in podcasting for many

1913
01:59:37,980 --> 01:59:40,800
podcasters the right thing and
the wrong thing. And we know

1914
01:59:40,800 --> 01:59:43,530
that's not the case. We know
it's these people and community.

1915
01:59:44,070 --> 01:59:50,670
But a lot of people are worried
about if I, if I go ahead now

1916
01:59:50,880 --> 01:59:55,920
and publish a premium episode or
put a premium on my feed or even

1917
01:59:55,920 --> 02:00:00,960
consider this. Will that undo
the goodwill Have my audience

1918
02:00:00,960 --> 02:00:04,350
who have enjoyed me for free for
five years? Big Question. That's

1919
02:00:04,590 --> 02:00:05,640
huge. Yeah.

1920
02:00:07,620 --> 02:00:11,220
Yeah. And it might, it could. It
could be the answer is it

1921
02:00:11,220 --> 02:00:14,070
depends on your audience, you
know, because you know, you guys

1922
02:00:14,070 --> 02:00:15,180
don't, you may not work.

1923
02:00:15,210 --> 02:00:18,180
Now my bottom line is I'm saying
now that I'm seeing this, you

1924
02:00:18,180 --> 02:00:20,340
guys don't charge enough for
what you do. I mean, I

1925
02:00:20,340 --> 02:00:25,140
understand the market gives you
what it bears. But none of the

1926
02:00:25,140 --> 02:00:28,080
hosts really, there's so much
extra that's being done. It's

1927
02:00:28,080 --> 02:00:31,710
quite, it's quite mind boggling.
How about, how about bandwidth?

1928
02:00:31,710 --> 02:00:36,300
That seems to be the like the
variable here, that is kind of

1929
02:00:36,300 --> 02:00:39,540
weird for your business case
where you get someone who's

1930
02:00:39,540 --> 02:00:43,560
really successful, and that has
to be subsidized by lots of

1931
02:00:43,560 --> 02:00:46,710
other smaller shows that don't
eat up a lot of bandwidth. How

1932
02:00:46,710 --> 02:00:47,490
is that for you?

1933
02:00:49,170 --> 02:00:52,650
You know, it's a, it's a very
classic business model in

1934
02:00:52,650 --> 02:00:58,800
podcasting, the idea that that
subsidy exists. From our

1935
02:00:58,800 --> 02:01:01,830
perspective, we put our price in
front like we charge but we

1936
02:01:01,830 --> 02:01:04,680
don't charge people for storage,
we give people unlimited shows

1937
02:01:04,680 --> 02:01:08,670
on one account, we know we don't
set them up for RSS feed. And we

1938
02:01:08,670 --> 02:01:11,880
say to them, Look, our costs are
the bandwidth, here's what you

1939
02:01:11,880 --> 02:01:14,310
will get, you know, you'll get
12,000 downloads at this cost

1940
02:01:14,310 --> 02:01:17,640
and 60,000 and then 120. And
then custom pricing,

1941
02:01:17,730 --> 02:01:20,640
you go all the way down that
line, you show them the

1942
02:01:20,700 --> 02:01:24,210
downloads based upon their file
size to or just in general,

1943
02:01:25,110 --> 02:01:28,050
Will not you know, actually, we
built a calculator for that. So

1944
02:01:28,050 --> 02:01:31,890
we have that bill, we didn't put
it on there on the website. And

1945
02:01:31,890 --> 02:01:35,370
I'll tell you why it is purely
back to my original point of

1946
02:01:35,400 --> 02:01:39,390
technical confusion is that when
we when we started signing

1947
02:01:39,390 --> 02:01:42,270
people up for captivate the
first user to captivate, it was

1948
02:01:42,270 --> 02:01:44,340
a friend of mine called Ian
Anderson gray. And he started a

1949
02:01:44,340 --> 02:01:47,850
new podcast, and I just onboard
him. And I asked him these

1950
02:01:47,850 --> 02:01:51,030
questions used him as research
and he was very gracious. So

1951
02:01:51,030 --> 02:01:55,320
what are your file sizes? I have
absolutely no idea nor I've got

1952
02:01:55,320 --> 02:01:56,760
the inclination to find out.

1953
02:01:58,170 --> 02:01:58,890
We called it

1954
02:01:59,610 --> 02:02:00,480
and we didn't carry on.

1955
02:02:01,350 --> 02:02:04,350
But what's interesting is in
this new world of Bitcoin and

1956
02:02:04,350 --> 02:02:08,520
lightning, and how the lightning
network is put together, and and

1957
02:02:08,520 --> 02:02:12,810
quite honestly, the the younger
people who are building this

1958
02:02:12,810 --> 02:02:18,540
out, I'm 56. So you know, I'm
looking at 3028 2930 year olds.

1959
02:02:19,980 --> 02:02:23,400
And the whole vibe is, Hey, man,
no one should be working for

1960
02:02:23,400 --> 02:02:26,430
free anymore. This is if if we
do that we're just shooting

1961
02:02:26,430 --> 02:02:31,830
ourselves in the foot. And
because of the kind of Oh, it

1962
02:02:31,830 --> 02:02:34,590
all has to be free, maybe also a
little bit the fear of Silicon

1963
02:02:34,590 --> 02:02:37,440
Valley, are they going to come
in? Are they gonna screw us over

1964
02:02:37,440 --> 02:02:39,810
with pricing? This is all
historical stuff, which goes

1965
02:02:39,810 --> 02:02:43,830
back over 10 years of how
podcasting and podcast hosting

1966
02:02:43,830 --> 02:02:46,590
companies evolve, and that
they've kind of priced

1967
02:02:46,590 --> 02:02:49,590
themselves with such thin
margins when something

1968
02:02:49,590 --> 02:02:54,270
successful comes along. It just
seems like we need some form of

1969
02:02:54,270 --> 02:03:00,930
reset for people to understand
personally. Although, throughout

1970
02:03:00,930 --> 02:03:06,360
the years, we found our own
solutions. When I got a bill

1971
02:03:06,360 --> 02:03:12,450
like, oh, now it's $600 this
month. I was also happy, like,

1972
02:03:12,450 --> 02:03:16,110
holy crap, I'm smoking over
here. This is great. The first

1973
02:03:16,110 --> 02:03:18,750
thing that came into my head was
not Oh, how am I gonna pay for

1974
02:03:18,750 --> 02:03:20,940
it? I'm going to go broke doing
the show. It was it was

1975
02:03:20,940 --> 02:03:23,700
incredibly exciting. Now these
are much bigger bills and other

1976
02:03:23,700 --> 02:03:27,660
people would see. But I think
somehow we we didn't set that up

1977
02:03:27,660 --> 02:03:29,610
right for you guys. Does that
make any sense?

1978
02:03:30,750 --> 02:03:35,070
He does, and in a symptom that
we often often ponder is how do

1979
02:03:35,070 --> 02:03:38,940
you? How do you translate that,
and we're sort of very

1980
02:03:38,940 --> 02:03:42,690
forthcoming with that, you know,
we don't offer a free version,

1981
02:03:42,690 --> 02:03:45,330
we don't have a freemium model,
we only offer a seven day free

1982
02:03:45,330 --> 02:03:50,160
trial, not a 14 or a 28. And the
reason for that is that, you

1983
02:03:50,160 --> 02:03:52,980
know, I could get free golf
lessons, but they're either

1984
02:03:52,980 --> 02:03:55,170
going to sell me a membership,
or I'm not going to be very good

1985
02:03:55,170 --> 02:03:59,220
after them, you know, there is
no way to get around the fact

1986
02:03:59,220 --> 02:04:04,020
that free is either simply not
as good. And if it is as good,

1987
02:04:04,590 --> 02:04:07,920
it needs to make money somewhere
somehow in the future. And

1988
02:04:07,920 --> 02:04:11,040
we've, we I think this might be
the northern English northern

1989
02:04:11,040 --> 02:04:13,410
British in as we've just been
very straight and honest, and

1990
02:04:13,410 --> 02:04:17,340
just said, Look, we are a
business. And we'll do a really,

1991
02:04:17,340 --> 02:04:20,370
really good job for you. These
are, what the costs are for us.

1992
02:04:20,880 --> 02:04:23,220
We'll keep it as low as we can
for you. And if you're serious

1993
02:04:23,220 --> 02:04:25,410
about your podcast, and if
you're serious about growing it,

1994
02:04:26,160 --> 02:04:28,350
not only we're gonna give you
the RSS stuff and the stuff that

1995
02:04:28,350 --> 02:04:30,810
you expect from a five bucks a
month cost, but we'll give you

1996
02:04:30,810 --> 02:04:33,030
all that other stuff that we
just talked about, what

1997
02:04:33,390 --> 02:04:36,000
what do you What's your feeling
about coming up? Because it's,

1998
02:04:36,120 --> 02:04:39,960
it just seems to me that if you
could eliminate the hosting cost

1999
02:04:39,960 --> 02:04:45,780
or minimize that to something
that is manageable, and you can

2000
02:04:46,320 --> 02:04:51,240
you can project regardless of
what happens with your customer

2001
02:04:51,240 --> 02:04:55,380
base. I think that would put you
in such a good place. I don't

2002
02:04:55,380 --> 02:04:58,530
know. I mean, I'm just just from
what I see from the outside from

2003
02:04:58,530 --> 02:05:01,740
all hosting companies because
they You would have this this

2004
02:05:01,770 --> 02:05:04,770
what has to be one of the
biggest costs just eliminated

2005
02:05:04,770 --> 02:05:09,510
overnight. And at podcast,
index, our social, we've had an

2006
02:05:09,510 --> 02:05:11,880
ongoing dialogue, and we're
moving forward with the

2007
02:05:11,880 --> 02:05:16,770
alternative enclosure
possibility for web torrent for

2008
02:05:16,770 --> 02:05:23,340
ipfs, distributed hosting ideas.
I mean, is that something that

2009
02:05:23,340 --> 02:05:25,530
you've looked at? Are you
willing to consider? Is it

2010
02:05:25,530 --> 02:05:29,700
something that I mean, it's
scary, I can understand. But

2011
02:05:30,000 --> 02:05:33,210
any, any other ideas on in that
realm as to how you can just

2012
02:05:33,210 --> 02:05:36,030
reduce the actual bandwidth
cost?

2013
02:05:37,710 --> 02:05:39,750
just jumping on that one?

2014
02:05:40,170 --> 02:05:41,880
Yes, you go. Sorry.

2015
02:05:42,480 --> 02:05:45,420
Yeah, algebra? No. I mean, the
ultimate enclosures thing for me

2016
02:05:45,420 --> 02:05:49,890
is quite a big one. And I think,
looking at it from places, I

2017
02:05:49,890 --> 02:05:52,980
mean, we've, we've already
talked about how, you know, deer

2018
02:05:53,010 --> 02:05:55,260
deer is, you know, we can get a
lot of data right now on his

2019
02:05:55,260 --> 02:05:58,500
phones and cellular, but then we
look at countries like India,

2020
02:05:58,500 --> 02:06:02,760
and, you know, places like South
Africa, you know, where data is

2021
02:06:02,760 --> 02:06:05,790
at a premium. And ultimately,
closure offers a really, really

2022
02:06:05,790 --> 02:06:10,350
good solution. And to be fair,
you know, the only reason that

2023
02:06:10,350 --> 02:06:13,500
hosts use CD ends is because
someone else that never media

2024
02:06:13,500 --> 02:06:16,770
house uses CDN is kind of like a
stick to hit you with if you

2025
02:06:16,770 --> 02:06:20,970
don't use one. You know, there
are perfectly good solutions

2026
02:06:20,970 --> 02:06:25,140
without using CD ends. You know,
there's options out there, you

2027
02:06:25,140 --> 02:06:30,300
know, for basic, you know,
storage systems. You know, I

2028
02:06:30,300 --> 02:06:33,900
think if you look at Daniel J,
Lewis did a really, really

2029
02:06:33,900 --> 02:06:37,350
interesting blog post about this
a while ago, when we first

2030
02:06:37,350 --> 02:06:40,530
launched captivate, and it was,
you know, about fastest podcast

2031
02:06:40,680 --> 02:06:44,190
downloads. And I think whilst
it's great to have a fast

2032
02:06:44,190 --> 02:06:48,300
download, you know, the people
that are, you know, in the UK,

2033
02:06:48,330 --> 02:06:52,320
over in the US and Europe, you
know, they do it, the streaming

2034
02:06:52,320 --> 02:06:55,500
time is so tiny and
insignificant that it doesn't

2035
02:06:55,500 --> 02:06:59,730
matter, that much. CDN is
basically just been kind of

2036
02:06:59,730 --> 02:07:02,280
forced into podcasting, because
everyone else has got it, and

2037
02:07:02,280 --> 02:07:04,830
you know, it's a battle, they're
not gonna see the end, you can

2038
02:07:04,830 --> 02:07:07,320
always have, you know, separate
servers that have got, you know,

2039
02:07:07,320 --> 02:07:11,580
the media files with redundancy
and backups that cost next and

2040
02:07:11,580 --> 02:07:15,750
often. But, you know, that's
kind of where there's a little

2041
02:07:15,750 --> 02:07:18,360
bit of a downfall in podcasters,
in as a whole.

2042
02:07:19,590 --> 02:07:21,600
Yeah, let me let me ask you
something about that on the

2043
02:07:21,600 --> 02:07:25,050
bandwidth side of things, Karen,
is, because one thing that we,

2044
02:07:25,680 --> 02:07:29,010
you know, we're an egg, we're an
aggregator a big one. And so one

2045
02:07:29,010 --> 02:07:33,810
of the things that, as I've been
trying to trying to fix or solve

2046
02:07:33,810 --> 02:07:38,340
here is the same thing that web
sub nor pub sub was trying to

2047
02:07:38,340 --> 02:07:43,530
solve, that sort of failed at
that. And that's the polling

2048
02:07:43,770 --> 02:07:48,450
issue, you know, polling for,
for feeds. And what, you know,

2049
02:07:48,450 --> 02:07:54,600
what we see on a consistent
basis is just, you know, we now

2050
02:07:54,600 --> 02:07:58,500
have like three point, almost
3.2 million feeds in the index,

2051
02:07:59,010 --> 02:08:04,380
there's no way that you can
timely in a timely fashion, pull

2052
02:08:04,380 --> 02:08:09,960
every one of those number one,
your there's going to be some

2053
02:08:09,960 --> 02:08:14,430
delay. And then number two, we
don't really even want to do

2054
02:08:14,430 --> 02:08:18,240
that, because you're wasting so
much time pulling feeds that

2055
02:08:18,240 --> 02:08:23,910
never update is a website was
supposed to fix that. And, but,

2056
02:08:24,000 --> 02:08:28,410
but it really just falls down in
a lot of ways. So what have in

2057
02:08:28,440 --> 02:08:34,260
most, I think web sub web sub is
a is a thing that makes sense

2058
02:08:34,260 --> 02:08:40,680
for for RSS itself, in sort of
like the blogging, traditional

2059
02:08:40,680 --> 02:08:45,090
RSS, newsfeed world, but I'm
beginning to be convinced. And

2060
02:08:45,090 --> 02:08:47,550
basically, I am convinced
already, that web sub does

2061
02:08:47,550 --> 02:08:52,110
really, really does not fit the
model of podcasting, RSS. And I

2062
02:08:52,110 --> 02:08:56,430
think, what, what I'm working on
what I'm working on right now,

2063
02:08:56,430 --> 02:08:58,860
and I was actually doing some
work on it last night, just

2064
02:08:58,860 --> 02:09:03,480
drawing up some some ideas is,
is sort of a closed web stub.

2065
02:09:03,630 --> 02:09:08,820
And, and this would be something
where the the hosting companies

2066
02:09:08,820 --> 02:09:14,640
participate. And paying,
basically, just anytime there's

2067
02:09:14,640 --> 02:09:18,810
an update to a feed, even a new
feed, we have a new feed you

2068
02:09:18,810 --> 02:09:26,070
paying a set of web web sub
compliant servers that are and

2069
02:09:26,220 --> 02:09:29,310
you know, I'm envisioning
somewhat some envision multiple

2070
02:09:29,310 --> 02:09:35,250
people hosting this. So us,
let's just say blueberry, maybe

2071
02:09:35,250 --> 02:09:39,210
overcast, anybody who runs an
aggregator slash podcast

2072
02:09:39,210 --> 02:09:43,650
directory, can participate and
run a node on this on this web

2073
02:09:43,650 --> 02:09:47,430
sub network. And then all the
hosting companies and including

2074
02:09:47,430 --> 02:09:51,030
word breno, Sol, solo WordPress
installs, all those kinds of

2075
02:09:51,030 --> 02:09:54,570
things. All can just, they all
know where to ping. They just

2076
02:09:54,570 --> 02:09:58,590
ping a DNS and say, here's the
Feed URL, and it's got a new

2077
02:09:58,590 --> 02:10:01,800
item or here's a Feed URL In
this URL, and this feed is brand

2078
02:10:01,800 --> 02:10:05,250
new wild day, and then
everything and then and then

2079
02:10:05,250 --> 02:10:09,750
that network replicates out to
anybody who wants to subscribe

2080
02:10:09,750 --> 02:10:13,200
as a web sub subscriber. Yeah, I
think.

2081
02:10:15,179 --> 02:10:16,799
Yeah, sorry.

2082
02:10:17,520 --> 02:10:20,550
No, I was just say, I think a
system like that could really

2083
02:10:20,550 --> 02:10:26,310
finally stop all of the polling,
and really become sort of a push

2084
02:10:26,310 --> 02:10:31,680
notification system for pot for
the pod open podcasting world as

2085
02:10:31,680 --> 02:10:34,710
a whole that everybody can
participate in, without all the

2086
02:10:34,710 --> 02:10:39,060
overhead of these constant re
subscriptions to website which

2087
02:10:39,060 --> 02:10:40,080
are, which are just

2088
02:10:40,829 --> 02:10:45,029
Hey, Dave, and Karen. I'm sorry,
I'm just jumping the queue here

2089
02:10:45,029 --> 02:10:45,629
for a second.

2090
02:10:45,839 --> 02:10:46,379
No, no, no.

2091
02:10:47,400 --> 02:10:52,650
What an immense power we have at
our fingertips here. I know that

2092
02:10:52,650 --> 02:10:57,360
we were laughing on a previous
show about how the apple podcast

2093
02:10:57,360 --> 02:11:02,700
app is basically a DDoS. system.
Because it's polling all the

2094
02:11:02,700 --> 02:11:08,730
time. It's it's doing a lot of
polling. I'm not exactly sure

2095
02:11:08,730 --> 02:11:11,610
you will know better the
frequency that Spotify and all

2096
02:11:11,610 --> 02:11:15,390
these other outfits are polling.
But this is where enormous power

2097
02:11:15,390 --> 02:11:18,840
lies. Because the hosting
companies, you only need a few

2098
02:11:18,840 --> 02:11:21,360
of them really, who are really
going to say you know what,

2099
02:11:21,930 --> 02:11:26,550
apple, this is not acceptable.
You're in essence, you are de

2100
02:11:26,550 --> 02:11:29,430
dossing. us you there's no
reason for it. Now, it's not

2101
02:11:29,430 --> 02:11:32,580
your fault. But here's the new
standard that the hosting

2102
02:11:32,580 --> 02:11:37,740
companies, yeah, who Apple is
now fucking ripping off, and is

2103
02:11:37,740 --> 02:11:40,380
trying to weasel in on your
business. We're putting making a

2104
02:11:40,380 --> 02:11:43,890
stand here and saying, if you
want to understand when our

2105
02:11:43,890 --> 02:11:48,960
customers and feeds are updated,
here's how you can access that.

2106
02:11:49,080 --> 02:11:52,650
We're gonna block you if you're
polling every three minutes. And

2107
02:11:52,650 --> 02:11:56,490
you want to see how fast things
change with Apple very fast.

2108
02:11:57,210 --> 02:12:00,420
Because then all of a sudden,
they get their iPhone users

2109
02:12:00,420 --> 02:12:03,900
complaining, I can't find this
podcast hasn't updated. Why is

2110
02:12:03,900 --> 02:12:07,920
your podcast app not working?
Now, it's a big step. because

2111
02:12:07,920 --> 02:12:10,140
someone's got to have the
Kahunas and work with their

2112
02:12:10,140 --> 02:12:13,680
customers to say, Hey, we want
to keep our costs in check. We

2113
02:12:13,680 --> 02:12:16,290
want to lower our costs,
whatever it is, we want to do,

2114
02:12:16,920 --> 02:12:20,490
we need to protect everybody in
this. And these are just bad

2115
02:12:20,490 --> 02:12:23,790
actors. But you can only say
when we have an activity pub or

2116
02:12:23,790 --> 02:12:26,610
a podcast, pub, whatever,
whatever the mechanism is,

2117
02:12:27,030 --> 02:12:28,980
there's enormous power there.

2118
02:12:30,450 --> 02:12:34,140
That says, you know that that's
exactly what Deezer have just

2119
02:12:34,140 --> 02:12:38,490
implemented. All the weeks ago,
we implemented it, I think two

2120
02:12:38,490 --> 02:12:42,570
weeks ago. So so whenever a feed
is updated, you basically post a

2121
02:12:42,570 --> 02:12:45,270
request over to their API and
basically say, look, we've

2122
02:12:45,270 --> 02:12:48,360
published an episode, I'll look,
he looked at an episode, pull my

2123
02:12:48,360 --> 02:12:51,630
feed, you know, to stop this
ride for polling,

2124
02:12:51,660 --> 02:12:56,580
right, but you have to pull you
have to ping them. Instead, they

2125
02:12:56,580 --> 02:13:00,390
should be pinging you. That's my
point. Why, and in fact, they

2126
02:13:00,390 --> 02:13:04,290
shouldn't be pinging you, they
should just be a resource. And a

2127
02:13:04,290 --> 02:13:06,510
distributed resource for all I
care, that doesn't matter.

2128
02:13:06,929 --> 02:13:11,819
Yeah, see, that's, that's the
thing is, is if we, if we solve

2129
02:13:11,819 --> 02:13:16,919
this in a way, where you have
one pane that goes into the, to

2130
02:13:16,919 --> 02:13:21,299
the distributed notification
system, and then everybody who

2131
02:13:21,299 --> 02:13:24,629
subscribes and gets that paying
out, that's what that's what web

2132
02:13:24,629 --> 02:13:28,679
sub is supposed to be. But the
problem is, is web sub requires

2133
02:13:28,679 --> 02:13:35,819
frequent re subscriptions. And
it requires a, a, one to one

2134
02:13:36,659 --> 02:13:40,379
sort of linkage back from the
feed to the web server that it

2135
02:13:40,379 --> 02:13:44,579
is handling subscriptions for
that feed. And, and I think what

2136
02:13:44,579 --> 02:13:50,189
really, the solution needs to be
not private agreements between

2137
02:13:50,219 --> 02:13:54,869
individual parties, right, but
basically one one system where

2138
02:13:54,869 --> 02:13:58,109
everybody just knows, here's the
here's the here's the domain,

2139
02:13:58,139 --> 02:14:02,309
here's the host name. And that
host name is a round robin that

2140
02:14:02,309 --> 02:14:06,269
addresses multiple hosts within
the podcast paying update

2141
02:14:06,269 --> 02:14:09,989
network, whatever it is, and we
just say in there's there's a

2142
02:14:09,989 --> 02:14:13,439
predefined URL scheme and and
you can always just ping that

2143
02:14:13,439 --> 02:14:18,569
one DNS name with a predefined
URL parameters this scheme for

2144
02:14:18,569 --> 02:14:24,179
the URL and everybody gets to
participate it's basically push

2145
02:14:24,179 --> 02:14:30,359
only website if I think that a
system like that makes it where

2146
02:14:30,359 --> 02:14:33,959
you don't have to have you know,
because these are these are

2147
02:14:33,959 --> 02:14:39,659
model is is just going to be
okay. Well, now now as a podcast

2148
02:14:39,659 --> 02:14:44,849
host I have to make you know,
different agreements with all

2149
02:14:44,849 --> 02:14:48,599
these different direct Yes, that
doesn't. That doesn't scalable

2150
02:14:48,599 --> 02:14:48,959
either.

2151
02:14:48,990 --> 02:14:52,350
Kiernan, what's the Akira in
fact now I did it myself. Karen,

2152
02:14:52,350 --> 02:14:56,640
what's the sorry about that?
What's the percentage do you

2153
02:14:56,640 --> 02:15:04,380
think of bandwidth used on our
RSS feed polling versus mp3 file

2154
02:15:04,380 --> 02:15:04,950
transfer.

2155
02:15:07,740 --> 02:15:10,680
mp3 transfers super high,

2156
02:15:10,710 --> 02:15:11,580
you know, sure, super

2157
02:15:11,580 --> 02:15:12,300
high. Sure.

2158
02:15:12,570 --> 02:15:15,180
RSS polling is not as bad, but
it's still a lot. You

2159
02:15:15,179 --> 02:15:17,279
know, it's I think it's 10%.

2160
02:15:18,930 --> 02:15:23,160
Now, it's probably less than
that tip probably 5%, maybe four

2161
02:15:23,160 --> 02:15:26,190
or 5%? You know,

2162
02:15:27,240 --> 02:15:30,450
I don't know how you feel Karen,
but it's when with the polling.

2163
02:15:31,110 --> 02:15:34,380
It's less the bandwidth and more
more of the server resources.

2164
02:15:34,380 --> 02:15:34,920
Oh, yeah.

2165
02:15:35,219 --> 02:15:38,189
Yes, resource into I think I
mean, you know, if you've got

2166
02:15:38,189 --> 02:15:40,979
anything written up on that one,
you know, feel free to invite me

2167
02:15:40,979 --> 02:15:44,189
on GitHub or anything like that,
to be working on, you know, here

2168
02:15:44,189 --> 02:15:46,619
at captivate, you know, we'd
love to be a part of any,

2169
02:15:46,949 --> 02:15:49,739
anything that's open like that,
that just helps us all again,

2170
02:15:49,739 --> 02:15:52,259
you know, if it saves cost on
bandwidth, then, you know, we're

2171
02:15:52,259 --> 02:15:55,709
all for that anyway. definitely
advise if you've got anything

2172
02:15:55,709 --> 02:15:56,129
written up.

2173
02:15:56,610 --> 02:15:59,370
Yeah, I think we're trying to
solve that problem now. And I

2174
02:15:59,940 --> 02:16:03,360
was going down the route of a
distributed poll, polling

2175
02:16:03,360 --> 02:16:05,520
agents, and now I've thought,
you know, last night, I was

2176
02:16:05,520 --> 02:16:09,420
like, No, it's just not gonna
work. We this, this whole thing

2177
02:16:09,420 --> 02:16:12,900
is gonna fail. Unless we solve
the not the polling issue for

2178
02:16:12,900 --> 02:16:16,290
everybody all at once, at the
same time, period. I mean,

2179
02:16:16,320 --> 02:16:18,330
otherwise, it's a it's a
failure, and I'm not even going

2180
02:16:18,330 --> 02:16:22,350
to deal with it. So you know
that, yeah, well, hopefully,

2181
02:16:22,350 --> 02:16:24,990
we'll you know, we'll start
hammering away on that. Anyway.

2182
02:16:24,990 --> 02:16:26,250
It's just not day one. Just get
your thoughts.

2183
02:16:28,830 --> 02:16:33,810
Back to just briefly the
namespace. What, what, what are

2184
02:16:33,810 --> 02:16:41,700
you guys implementing currently?
Hello. Sorry, I'll

2185
02:16:41,699 --> 02:16:49,199
jump. In last time. I was. I was
starting last time. Any job

2186
02:16:49,199 --> 02:16:52,019
said? Yeah, yeah, it's like,
yeah, so we implemented the

2187
02:16:52,019 --> 02:16:54,419
transcript tag, which is
fantastic.

2188
02:16:54,780 --> 02:16:58,290
But you also provide transcript
processing for your customers?

2189
02:16:59,760 --> 02:17:03,840
We don't know. But we we partner
over with the team at descript.

2190
02:17:04,200 --> 02:17:07,560
Got an integration with a
script, which works nicely. Go

2191
02:17:07,560 --> 02:17:09,810
straight in, we create the
files, you know, we get

2192
02:17:09,810 --> 02:17:12,570
everything where it needs to be.
And we also include the

2193
02:17:12,570 --> 02:17:14,130
transcription on the website as
well.

2194
02:17:14,160 --> 02:17:18,510
Cool. It's all automatic images,
to just all flows through and no

2195
02:17:18,510 --> 02:17:19,260
one really has Yeah,

2196
02:17:19,290 --> 02:17:22,650
see, that was true. Nice. They
can even write the manual ones

2197
02:17:22,650 --> 02:17:25,800
if you know if someone's not
about the tools to do so. They

2198
02:17:25,800 --> 02:17:30,270
can write manual transcripts as
well, which is nice to know. So

2199
02:17:30,270 --> 02:17:33,570
we've got that one. podcast
trailer one as soon as that's

2200
02:17:33,570 --> 02:17:35,490
obviously open, you know, we're
going to look into that one and

2201
02:17:35,670 --> 02:17:38,460
and get that one integrated as
soon as you can. There's a few

2202
02:17:38,460 --> 02:17:41,490
as well that because I'm not I'm
not sure if you were But James

2203
02:17:41,490 --> 02:17:45,900
could Linds, a part of the
Advisory Board of captivate is

2204
02:17:45,900 --> 02:17:51,810
forever pushing everyone, all of
the all of the all of the

2205
02:17:53,490 --> 02:17:56,190
I'm really happy to hear that
I'm really happy to hear that

2206
02:17:56,340 --> 02:18:01,620
says so. So what we do have our
monthly advisor charts, we

2207
02:18:01,620 --> 02:18:03,030
always talk about, you know,
what we're going to look to

2208
02:18:03,030 --> 02:18:06,930
implement, you know what to get
in? I think Yeah, I think

2209
02:18:06,930 --> 02:18:12,300
that's, that's far. Yeah, and if
you mark on that front, I know

2210
02:18:12,300 --> 02:18:14,310
you've got a few ideas on what
you'd like to implement. Next.

2211
02:18:15,300 --> 02:18:19,080
We've got a few design elements
that are coming through so we've

2212
02:18:19,080 --> 02:18:22,800
just finally got a head of
design in who that the fabled

2213
02:18:22,800 --> 02:18:24,450
guys who does exhaust gas

2214
02:18:26,280 --> 02:18:30,300
the man the myth, the legend,
and as part of that, we're

2215
02:18:30,300 --> 02:18:32,850
actually going to implement
We've had a few of the fields

2216
02:18:32,940 --> 02:18:36,120
like the front end field so
things like the donation link

2217
02:18:36,540 --> 02:18:39,990
that we use on our websites and
in our player and so on, that we

2218
02:18:39,990 --> 02:18:42,780
want to kind of bolt the tags on
to in the in the back end. So

2219
02:18:42,780 --> 02:18:45,810
we've kind of held off a few of
those just purely because we

2220
02:18:45,810 --> 02:18:47,880
knew that we had some design
work coming up so there'll be a

2221
02:18:47,880 --> 02:18:51,600
few of those times like the
location like the funding that

2222
02:18:51,630 --> 02:18:55,020
we'll use our own interface that
we've already got, essentially

2223
02:18:55,080 --> 02:18:57,540
then we'll just bolt the tags
onto the back end of them so

2224
02:18:57,540 --> 02:18:59,340
that's another something that
guys is excited about.

2225
02:19:00,059 --> 02:19:03,239
Is get what is what kind of name
is is that short for Gavin and

2226
02:19:03,239 --> 02:19:06,269
it just turned into a z what how
do you get a name like as

2227
02:19:07,380 --> 02:19:09,690
a shot for Gary? gases

2228
02:19:09,720 --> 02:19:10,290
gases the

2229
02:19:11,219 --> 02:19:12,869
geysers. Okay, right.

2230
02:19:13,290 --> 02:19:17,310
I was trying to figure it out
like Gavin gas, Gary. Yeah, gas

2231
02:19:17,310 --> 02:19:18,510
gas geysers? Yeah.

2232
02:19:18,540 --> 02:19:19,200
Got it. Okay.

2233
02:19:20,700 --> 02:19:22,770
we all we all have a we have a
you have a Christian name and

2234
02:19:22,770 --> 02:19:24,030
your pub pub, man. Yeah.

2235
02:19:25,590 --> 02:19:29,910
That's exactly how it works.
Wow. Um, so I guess the the main

2236
02:19:29,910 --> 02:19:35,160
question for me is, what can we
do to help you guys, is there

2237
02:19:35,160 --> 02:19:38,430
anything that we can be doing
different, better? something

2238
02:19:38,430 --> 02:19:41,730
new, that would facilitate your
life make it easier, better,

2239
02:19:41,730 --> 02:19:42,360
faster?

2240
02:19:44,070 --> 02:19:46,590
I think just just helping out
with education, which, which we

2241
02:19:46,590 --> 02:19:49,530
talked about earlier would be
fantastic. It is not that there

2242
02:19:49,530 --> 02:19:52,290
isn't enough going on? I think
it's just that we can all always

2243
02:19:52,290 --> 02:19:54,510
just do a bit more. And I think
that's for us to drive that as

2244
02:19:54,510 --> 02:19:57,720
hosting companies. But even
though I'm not the most

2245
02:19:57,720 --> 02:20:00,630
technical person on the planet,
you know, I'm I'm frequently in

2246
02:20:00,630 --> 02:20:03,420
the in the Git community looking
at the comments and the

2247
02:20:03,420 --> 02:20:07,830
discussions and stuff, and I
think, having been podcasting

2248
02:20:07,830 --> 02:20:11,250
for certainly not as long as
very many other people, you

2249
02:20:11,250 --> 02:20:15,990
know, it's instance while 2013
ish. I've still and Kieran is

2250
02:20:15,990 --> 02:20:18,480
still seeing a lot of these
things come and go. And I think

2251
02:20:18,480 --> 02:20:23,370
is, is refreshing the podcast in
2.0, the new namespace just

2252
02:20:23,370 --> 02:20:28,020
continues to keep the momentum
up. That I think is just keep

2253
02:20:28,020 --> 02:20:30,690
the foot down. Because I don't
think anyone else will just keep

2254
02:20:30,690 --> 02:20:32,010
the foot down. That's what we
need.

2255
02:20:32,970 --> 02:20:37,260
Yeah, I think I was talking
about that a little bit on the

2256
02:20:37,440 --> 02:20:41,130
on the mass. But on the other
day that don't, we don't want to

2257
02:20:41,130 --> 02:20:44,100
go. At first, we were thinking,
well, maybe we shouldn't go so

2258
02:20:44,100 --> 02:20:47,880
fast. Because we need to give
people time to catch up and all

2259
02:20:47,880 --> 02:20:49,890
that kind of stuff. And then,
you know, but the more I think

2260
02:20:49,890 --> 02:20:53,250
about it, it's really just, it
doesn't matter, the pace of

2261
02:20:53,250 --> 02:20:56,760
adoption. I mean, the pace of
adoption, can can lag, you know,

2262
02:20:56,760 --> 02:21:01,620
for from a few months, it
doesn't matter. It's really what

2263
02:21:01,620 --> 02:21:05,190
matters more than adoption, is
that those things are available

2264
02:21:05,310 --> 02:21:08,610
that they exist, because we I
guess we were talking about it

2265
02:21:08,610 --> 02:21:11,040
with is with reference to
alternate enclosure as well,

2266
02:21:11,040 --> 02:21:14,040
because there's a couple of
hosting companies are like, Hey,

2267
02:21:14,070 --> 02:21:17,460
we're just not really interested
in alternative closure. 99% of

2268
02:21:17,460 --> 02:21:21,840
our customers are in North
America. And bandwidth is not an

2269
02:21:21,840 --> 02:21:24,900
issue blah, blah, blah. So but
then there are other hosting

2270
02:21:24,900 --> 02:21:29,460
companies. Even if there's only
one or two, that maybe alternate

2271
02:21:29,460 --> 02:21:32,640
and closure is a huge deal. And
they need a low bandwidth

2272
02:21:32,640 --> 02:21:35,700
version. They really that's
that's really they're desperate

2273
02:21:35,700 --> 02:21:40,470
for a solution like that. And so
adoption is not really the

2274
02:21:40,470 --> 02:21:45,870
point. And I think, thinking
that as well. It's more

2275
02:21:45,870 --> 02:21:50,190
important to just have the thing
exist. And then and then that

2276
02:21:50,190 --> 02:21:54,480
way, if somebody needs it, it's
there. And they can use it in

2277
02:21:54,480 --> 02:21:57,000
and they know they're safe using
it. Because it's an open

2278
02:21:57,000 --> 02:22:01,050
standard. I think I'm I think
I'm sort of lining up all along

2279
02:22:01,050 --> 02:22:04,320
those lines, you know, here, let
the say I'm on board with that.

2280
02:22:04,350 --> 02:22:07,290
How about this analogy. So
you're hosting companies like

2281
02:22:07,290 --> 02:22:11,880
your home, and I just happen to
be looking for a new home. So

2282
02:22:11,970 --> 02:22:14,850
you know, I want my home to look
like this. I wanted to have this

2283
02:22:14,850 --> 02:22:17,550
I want to have a backyard. Now.
There's all kinds of reasons why

2284
02:22:17,550 --> 02:22:21,390
I want it. Conversely, your
podcast app, and it's something

2285
02:22:21,390 --> 02:22:25,950
I've learned. It's like a car.
You know, all podcast apps are

2286
02:22:25,950 --> 02:22:29,370
going to drive you from home to
work. Because just like a car,

2287
02:22:29,580 --> 02:22:32,280
some people want a Ferrari some
people want a bigger sound

2288
02:22:32,280 --> 02:22:35,400
system. Some people want knobs
and dials and blips and blobs.

2289
02:22:35,400 --> 02:22:39,060
And some people just want
completely clean. Some people

2290
02:22:39,090 --> 02:22:42,480
want a Tesla and to die and
burn. That's the apple model.

2291
02:22:44,010 --> 02:22:47,460
That's apple and Spotify get a
Tesla, you know, so but it's

2292
02:22:47,490 --> 02:22:54,360
it's personality. So my wife
loves pod friend, my my business

2293
02:22:54,360 --> 02:22:57,300
partner, my friend Dave, he's
just turning me on to pod verse,

2294
02:22:57,300 --> 02:23:00,210
it has completely different
features that I'm interested in.

2295
02:23:00,450 --> 02:23:02,970
And that goes right back to what
you're saying, Dave? It's like

2296
02:23:03,060 --> 02:23:07,140
the adoption comes with
partially demand with insight

2297
02:23:07,140 --> 02:23:11,550
with vision from individual
groups. And what we're seeing

2298
02:23:11,550 --> 02:23:15,480
here and maybe this will wrap it
all up, is I don't really think

2299
02:23:15,480 --> 02:23:21,180
you can have one podcast host or
one apple solution or, you know,

2300
02:23:21,180 --> 02:23:25,380
the the valley and yet extremely
pathetic effort. Mark

2301
02:23:25,380 --> 02:23:28,470
Zuckerberg, Zuckerberg made the
day before Apple With what?

2302
02:23:29,040 --> 02:23:33,540
We're doing podcasting. Do you
know so? So it's it's not it's

2303
02:23:33,540 --> 02:23:37,230
just not going to where it's
almost like RSS, it's dead will

2304
02:23:37,230 --> 02:23:40,920
kill it. It's dying. It's going
away. Never again, whoo. It just

2305
02:23:40,920 --> 02:23:46,770
doesn't happen. Because people
have different people aren't all

2306
02:23:46,770 --> 02:23:50,490
the same. You know, they, some
people may not want to be with a

2307
02:23:50,520 --> 02:23:54,270
podcast host. This is captivate
Ooh, scary, who the hell knows?

2308
02:23:54,690 --> 02:23:57,450
Now, and that, I think is the
beauty of what's going on here.

2309
02:23:57,450 --> 02:24:00,150
And everybody has their piece
and everybody improves at their

2310
02:24:00,150 --> 02:24:01,800
own pace with their own group.

2311
02:24:03,900 --> 02:24:05,340
Or versity.

2312
02:24:06,360 --> 02:24:10,410
I think that's perfect. So to do
that, with their own group is

2313
02:24:10,410 --> 02:24:15,270
the real key to podcasting. I
remember once the first ever

2314
02:24:15,270 --> 02:24:19,770
event I went to in podcasting,
and I'm coming from this weird

2315
02:24:19,770 --> 02:24:23,670
little town like here and I do
is very weird. If you do what we

2316
02:24:23,670 --> 02:24:27,240
do to you always kind of feel a
little bit on the outside. And I

2317
02:24:27,240 --> 02:24:30,150
remember turning up at this
event. And finally thinking, you

2318
02:24:30,150 --> 02:24:34,560
know what, we fit here. This is
good. And that was what was

2319
02:24:34,560 --> 02:24:38,310
attractive about podcasting. I
think the nought point 2% of

2320
02:24:38,310 --> 02:24:41,550
podcasters I get the headlines
from earlier. They're the ones

2321
02:24:41,550 --> 02:24:44,550
that sort of make it feel like
actually it was in this and the

2322
02:24:44,550 --> 02:24:49,020
people are doing this because we
love it. It's not for us to fit

2323
02:24:49,020 --> 02:24:52,080
anymore, but it is this is what
is this is this is what

2324
02:24:52,200 --> 02:24:55,020
podcasting is and i think that i
think that's articulated

2325
02:24:55,020 --> 02:24:56,610
perfectly Adam. Yeah,

2326
02:24:57,330 --> 02:25:00,180
yeah, that's beautiful. So so in
Sheffield, you're the weird Yo

2327
02:25:00,180 --> 02:25:01,680
podcast, guys. Is that what I'm
here?

2328
02:25:02,520 --> 02:25:05,010
All the story? We're from a
little town called Barnsley.

2329
02:25:05,130 --> 02:25:08,550
Right. And when I said I was
going into podcasting mainecare

2330
02:25:08,550 --> 02:25:14,100
and back in 2014, the digital
support network who is supposed

2331
02:25:14,100 --> 02:25:16,680
to champion creative and digital
industries in bands, the left is

2332
02:25:16,680 --> 02:25:19,500
out of the building. How to
start a podcast

2333
02:25:21,690 --> 02:25:25,050
now Now, is there a rivalry
between Sheffield and Barnsley?

2334
02:25:27,030 --> 02:25:28,170
Not when you've got here nice.

2335
02:25:33,960 --> 02:25:35,640
Very nice, very nice. Well,

2336
02:25:36,030 --> 02:25:39,240
guys, I want to thank you so
much, so much for coming on. I

2337
02:25:39,240 --> 02:25:41,400
know that we had to do things
out of sequence, I'm glad you

2338
02:25:41,400 --> 02:25:44,700
were able to facilitate us to to
be inserted into the board

2339
02:25:44,700 --> 02:25:46,260
meeting. Thank you for
everything you're doing for

2340
02:25:46,260 --> 02:25:49,740
podcasting and for podcasting to
point out the same thing, but

2341
02:25:50,040 --> 02:25:53,610
specifically how you're helping
drive a lot of this innovation.

2342
02:25:53,910 --> 02:25:57,090
And as I said, I make myself
fully available to you, your

2343
02:25:57,090 --> 02:26:00,660
customers, whatever, if you want
to do some, if I can help in any

2344
02:26:00,660 --> 02:26:04,500
way with with educational stuff,
I do end up that goes for all of

2345
02:26:04,500 --> 02:26:09,300
our all of our hosting companies
of course. And, and feel free to

2346
02:26:09,420 --> 02:26:12,060
barge into the boardroom anytime
that you need something, you

2347
02:26:12,060 --> 02:26:15,150
know, you got a union dispute,
whatever, it's, that's what

2348
02:26:15,150 --> 02:26:15,810
we're here for.

2349
02:26:18,030 --> 02:26:20,520
Now, thank you very much. It's
been a real pleasure. Right.

2350
02:26:20,520 --> 02:26:21,000
enjoyed it.

2351
02:26:22,530 --> 02:26:25,080
Yeah, likewise, thank you for
that. It's, it's nice to be able

2352
02:26:25,080 --> 02:26:27,390
to chat and it's nice to have
someone that gets the British

2353
02:26:27,390 --> 02:26:28,500
humor. So thank you for that.

2354
02:26:29,760 --> 02:26:32,490
Thank you guys, cuz you you
invented that and it just passed

2355
02:26:32,490 --> 02:26:35,160
on to me by assimilation. So
it's, it's fun.

2356
02:26:35,640 --> 02:26:36,210
Thanks, guys.

2357
02:26:37,080 --> 02:26:40,290
Alright, Dave, maybe this is
appropriate moment to thank

2358
02:26:40,290 --> 02:26:45,000
people who have supported
podcast index.org as this is a

2359
02:26:45,000 --> 02:26:49,470
value for value proposition. I
think that's pretty clear by now

2360
02:26:49,470 --> 02:26:54,270
that the only the only thing we
care about is value for value

2361
02:26:54,270 --> 02:26:57,180
time talent treasure, you bring
it whatever you get out of the

2362
02:26:57,180 --> 02:27:00,540
index out of this podcast out of
the movement in general, Your

2363
02:27:00,540 --> 02:27:03,780
support is what is fueling it
literally it keeps the servers

2364
02:27:03,780 --> 02:27:07,110
running makes everything go and
you can support us by going to

2365
02:27:07,110 --> 02:27:10,830
podcast index.org scroll down
there you see a big red Donate

2366
02:27:10,830 --> 02:27:14,490
button that's for your COC bucks
through PayPal which still is

2367
02:27:14,880 --> 02:27:18,870
very useful. And I believe
there's also a QR code there if

2368
02:27:18,870 --> 02:27:22,620
you want to send us some status
websites and who do we have to

2369
02:27:22,620 --> 02:27:24,780
thank today for supporting
everything

2370
02:27:25,740 --> 02:27:32,400
good group. I want to I want to
say off the bat that I think I

2371
02:27:32,400 --> 02:27:36,840
mentioned earlier, you know Tom
at buzzsprout contacted me and

2372
02:27:37,050 --> 02:27:41,520
then at RSS calm asking if we
needed any financial help and

2373
02:27:41,520 --> 02:27:43,620
that kind of thing and that was
great. That was just so

2374
02:27:43,620 --> 02:27:46,110
appreciate super heartwarming.
Really Yes.

2375
02:27:46,200 --> 02:27:48,690
Yeah. It meant a lot and you
know we're doing we're doing

2376
02:27:48,690 --> 02:27:51,630
fine man we got you know, we've
we save our money we don't you

2377
02:27:51,630 --> 02:27:54,600
know, we're we've done we've
done well to be able to handle

2378
02:27:54,600 --> 02:27:58,140
stuff like this but I really
appreciate that that sentiment

2379
02:27:58,620 --> 02:28:06,270
the yes a Marco from overcast
showed up in a big way and gave

2380
02:28:06,270 --> 02:28:12,750
us $500 Yeah, nice and yeah that
appreciate that and he put a

2381
02:28:12,750 --> 02:28:17,580
really put his money where his
mouth is. And that mean means a

2382
02:28:17,580 --> 02:28:22,680
lot no note or anything that
really appreciate that

2383
02:28:22,710 --> 02:28:26,550
$500 and half a million dollar
it half and half a million

2384
02:28:26,550 --> 02:28:31,410
iTunes IDs. It's It's It's an
it's a very nice, very nice show

2385
02:28:31,410 --> 02:28:31,920
support.

2386
02:28:33,150 --> 02:28:38,550
Yeah, very appreciated. The
let's see here who got Oh, okay.

2387
02:28:39,930 --> 02:28:44,520
I don't know. He said, Okay,
here is $50 donation. Nice.

2388
02:28:44,700 --> 02:28:47,970
Here's his note. post this hope
this helps with the influx, no

2389
02:28:47,970 --> 02:28:52,200
weekly shout out necessary go
podcasting. Do these there's no

2390
02:28:52,200 --> 02:28:54,240
weekly shout out necessary.
She'll still get say his name.

2391
02:28:54,240 --> 02:28:55,500
It doesn't say anonymous?

2392
02:28:56,820 --> 02:29:01,980
I guess not. Okay. And if he
does, we'll do it on the next.

2393
02:29:03,450 --> 02:29:06,870
If it sounds like someone
doesn't need to be mentioned.

2394
02:29:07,740 --> 02:29:08,700
There. I just got to make sure.

2395
02:29:11,190 --> 02:29:11,880
Okay, so

2396
02:29:13,410 --> 02:29:20,040
thank you for that. $50 Oh, Dred
Scott. Yeah. dready $4.33.

2397
02:29:20,369 --> 02:29:23,879
Dr. You're sending it the wrong
way, man. Hold on to that. Well,

2398
02:29:23,879 --> 02:29:25,889
of course he's sending Kuk
bucks. He's holding on to the

2399
02:29:25,889 --> 02:29:29,969
Bitcoin. He's smart, smart, man.
He's smart, man. He's hodling

2400
02:29:30,329 --> 02:29:33,899
Dred Scott the hodler dread the
hodler new name dread the hodler

2401
02:29:33,929 --> 02:29:37,319
There you go. And that's so
nice. If you drive in it's very,

2402
02:29:37,319 --> 02:29:37,979
very kind.

2403
02:29:38,519 --> 02:29:41,369
Show number eight says show
number. Show number with a

2404
02:29:41,369 --> 02:29:44,969
little 33 spikelets sprinkled on
top. I keep up the great work.

2405
02:29:45,089 --> 02:29:48,029
Can I get a cute you've been
Frank defragment a jingle? Yeah,

2406
02:29:48,029 --> 02:29:56,009
of course. That's it this is
over. All right.

2407
02:29:57,210 --> 02:29:58,080
I believe so. Yeah,

2408
02:29:58,230 --> 02:30:06,810
yeah. Thank you. Chad, Pharaoh
showed up with $33.33 and his

2409
02:30:06,810 --> 02:30:08,760
messages is not a bug. It's a
feature.

2410
02:30:10,349 --> 02:30:10,919
All right.

2411
02:30:13,080 --> 02:30:15,630
Thanks, Chad. appreciate very
much.

2412
02:30:17,609 --> 02:30:22,079
Seeing out Oh Lord, I do not
know how to pronounce this name.

2413
02:30:22,379 --> 02:30:25,979
GRZEG Oh rz

2414
02:30:26,550 --> 02:30:28,620
Hold on a second. Let me let me
write that one down.

2415
02:30:29,039 --> 02:30:39,149
Alright. GRC eg, Eg O, O RG o r
z, I'm sorry. It is Driggers.

2416
02:30:39,449 --> 02:30:39,869
Like it's

2417
02:30:39,870 --> 02:30:43,050
probably like a Gregor. Somehow
we know I have a country of

2418
02:30:43,050 --> 02:30:45,060
origin or no,

2419
02:30:45,180 --> 02:30:50,130
I get. I get an Oh no, no.
That's the on his email. It's

2420
02:30:50,130 --> 02:30:52,800
a.pl. So Poland. Ah,

2421
02:30:52,830 --> 02:30:55,590
okay. And what is what is Poland
have to say?

2422
02:30:57,180 --> 02:31:00,990
It just says take it easy
podcast. Take it easy.

2423
02:31:01,020 --> 02:31:01,800
Take it easy.

2424
02:31:01,950 --> 02:31:04,290
All right. I guess that's the
name of this podcast. Beautiful.

2425
02:31:04,320 --> 02:31:05,340
Well, thank you very much.

2426
02:31:05,580 --> 02:31:10,770
Yeah, thank you. I'm gonna say
Driggers. Because it sounds

2427
02:31:10,770 --> 02:31:15,840
fancy your clothes. Good. Good
for me. All right. Thank you

2428
02:31:15,840 --> 02:31:17,100
very much. That was a

2429
02:31:18,570 --> 02:31:19,440
that's a great dude.

2430
02:31:20,400 --> 02:31:23,220
You're right. Good group, good
looking group to actually

2431
02:31:23,580 --> 02:31:25,590
Oh, yeah. Very, very, very,

2432
02:31:26,130 --> 02:31:29,400
very good looking group. All
right. Anything else we need to

2433
02:31:29,430 --> 02:31:32,280
discuss anything else we need to
do? It's been a long one today.

2434
02:31:32,280 --> 02:31:35,040
But I appreciate everybody
sticking with us. Because, man,

2435
02:31:35,040 --> 02:31:38,100
it's just been one of those one
of those weeks a lot to do. I'm

2436
02:31:38,100 --> 02:31:41,190
super pumped. Man, I'm so
excited. It's like there's so

2437
02:31:41,190 --> 02:31:44,670
much energy flowing around.
There's so much good thinking

2438
02:31:44,670 --> 02:31:50,040
reminder that we have the weekly
jitsi call, which I think is it

2439
02:31:50,250 --> 02:31:55,320
six UTC tomorrow, Saturday, and
that's I believe that's still

2440
02:31:55,320 --> 02:31:59,880
on, there'll be a link posted on
podcast index dot social, we had

2441
02:31:59,880 --> 02:32:03,180
a good a good first one last
week, and it was just beautiful

2442
02:32:03,180 --> 02:32:08,580
to see all the all the different
cam characters, I think

2443
02:32:08,580 --> 02:32:13,020
everyone's just a beautiful
character have different ideas,

2444
02:32:14,520 --> 02:32:21,630
wildly different views on
openness, or open source. And

2445
02:32:21,870 --> 02:32:25,020
what I love is that, you know, I
just look at that whole group

2446
02:32:25,020 --> 02:32:29,280
and, and I say, holy crap, you
know, this is a $10 million

2447
02:32:29,520 --> 02:32:32,670
company group of developers who
are sitting here, and I'm not

2448
02:32:32,670 --> 02:32:36,030
paying anything for them, look
at all but look at all the brain

2449
02:32:36,030 --> 02:32:40,410
power that is in this group. And
they're more honest to each

2450
02:32:40,410 --> 02:32:45,840
other, and probably more polite
than if they had been in a

2451
02:32:45,840 --> 02:32:46,770
corporate environment.

2452
02:32:47,490 --> 02:32:48,240
100%

2453
02:32:48,300 --> 02:32:51,090
you know, and I love that. It's
like, No, I think this Okay,

2454
02:32:51,090 --> 02:32:55,830
cool. I think that's all right.
Cool. Perfect. There's no

2455
02:32:55,830 --> 02:32:56,700
arguments.

2456
02:32:57,060 --> 02:33:01,350
Also the the namespace is
getting it is getting some

2457
02:33:01,350 --> 02:33:02,250
activity or the less

2458
02:33:02,640 --> 02:33:06,180
is that sir Jean himself who was
just writing up a tags every

2459
02:33:06,180 --> 02:33:09,450
week. Yeah.

2460
02:33:11,190 --> 02:33:13,800
We should talk about this. We
should talk about some namespace

2461
02:33:13,800 --> 02:33:17,220
stuff. Next week. We didn't even
get to it this week. Okay. We

2462
02:33:18,300 --> 02:33:23,130
there's some good proposals out
there and see Daniel J. Lewis

2463
02:33:23,130 --> 02:33:27,780
wrote up one. Yes, I saw his
Yeah. Tom Rossi just this

2464
02:33:27,780 --> 02:33:31,470
morning, posted thing about
being able to replicate the

2465
02:33:31,470 --> 02:33:34,470
whole channels idea. And I think
that's a great, that's great.

2466
02:33:35,520 --> 02:33:37,860
Yeah, there's some good activity
going on over there. I think can

2467
02:33:37,860 --> 02:33:41,910
we're about we're about to
finalize trailers. Nice. Anyway,

2468
02:33:41,910 --> 02:33:44,010
I'm just gonna leave it at that.
It's already been like a freakin

2469
02:33:44,010 --> 02:33:44,820
five hour shifts.

2470
02:33:45,150 --> 02:33:46,170
Yes. Okay.

2471
02:33:46,890 --> 02:33:50,220
Well, everybody, this has been
good. Next week, we'll have Eric

2472
02:33:50,220 --> 02:33:53,670
the shill. I can't I mean, he
has a last name, but I always

2473
02:33:53,670 --> 02:33:58,110
call America shill. And he is
the third partner of podcast

2474
02:33:58,110 --> 02:34:02,970
index LLC. And he keeps
everything legal for us. And

2475
02:34:02,970 --> 02:34:07,440
we'll have a lot of and
particularly in the when it

2476
02:34:07,440 --> 02:34:13,440
comes to how do we handle income
with satoshis? What does that

2477
02:34:13,440 --> 02:34:18,120
look like for taxation? What is
what's going on with Bitcoin he

2478
02:34:18,120 --> 02:34:22,620
studies he just studied the
report that came out from the

2479
02:34:22,620 --> 02:34:26,760
SEC for all the regulations and
you know, and just in general,

2480
02:34:26,760 --> 02:34:30,600
he has a he's also developing
parts for the the new website.

2481
02:34:30,780 --> 02:34:32,940
So I think we'll have a lot of
fun having him on the show

2482
02:34:32,940 --> 02:34:35,880
tomorrow. And he'll finally
we'll have a voice here as well,

2483
02:34:35,880 --> 02:34:37,350
which has been overdue.

2484
02:34:37,980 --> 02:34:40,560
Yeah. Yeah. And he knows a lot
about DMCA and all that stuff,

2485
02:34:40,560 --> 02:34:43,050
too. He's He's a DeWalt. Army
knife.

2486
02:34:44,250 --> 02:34:47,730
Yes, there you go. He's not the
shill. He's Eric. The Swiss Army

2487
02:34:47,730 --> 02:34:53,460
Knife of podcast index is
perfect. Okay. Yeah, I can't say

2488
02:34:53,460 --> 02:34:58,200
anything other than I am just
super happy. And we will be back

2489
02:34:58,200 --> 02:35:00,840
again on Friday to bring you
another board. Meaning a podcast

2490
02:35:00,840 --> 02:35:03,780
in 2.0. Until then, take care
everybody Bye bye.

2491
02:35:20,460 --> 02:35:24,720
Listening to podcasting, visit
podcasts in

2492
02:35:24,720 --> 02:35:27,240
the stack or for more
information